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I don't have all the links, but a GURPS gen not existing is criminal.

I would like to run Shadowrun using GURPS rules. Anyone ever tried this?
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What is this bootleg ass GURPS gen? Don't even have the PDF
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OP is a fag, but that's nothing new
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>>75928109
Yes, people have tried that.
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>>75928109
It works pretty well. Certanly better then most editions of Shadowrun if you pick a magic system that isn't totally bonkers. Be aware that the mixed up grab bag of super powers you get with the Mage trait in Shadowrun cost a fucking ton in GURPS, but you can also just be flexible with that and not have everyone be asterally projecting and summoning allies for free.
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>>75928109
You buffoon, you joke, you absolute donkey.
You had one job, one simple fucking job, which was to open the archives and copy things over.

Previous thread:
>>75791539

Proper thread file(thanks anon):
>>75928858
In that post, you should see an image. Within the image are all the resources you need. Please do not link directly to the resources anywhere.
>Due to a takedown request, links to the MEGA archives are currently disabled. Because some retard did link directly to the resources.
>Library Genesis now has over 200 GURPS books.
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>>75928109
Since OP didn't even bother with a proper thread qustion, I have a noob question instead:
Exactly how much stuff is going to break if I give every weapon flexible reach (like swords) or if I remove flexible reach from swords?
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>>75931294
>mixed up grab bag of super powers you get
Playing gurps really makes you appreciate how little thought most rpg designers actually put in what they write.
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For nested advantages (whatever you call advantages like ETR that include another advantage within its benefits), can you put different modifiers on each part of it?
For instance, let's say an elite soldier with a super-science belt that lets him speed up - ideally he'd have Combat Reflexes as a normal advantage (being a well-trained fighter in his own right) and Enhanced Time Rate with gadget limitations (and any other modifiers relevant to how the device works). After buying Combat Reflexes at full price, can he buy ETR at only 30 points before modifiers, for
> Combat Reflexes [15], Enhanced Time Rate (whatever limitations, -20%) [24]
Or does he still need to pay full price for ETR, making it
> Combat Reflexes [15], Enhanced Time Rate (whatever limitations, -20%) [36]
Or can he just not have standard CR making it ETR or nothing?
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Never played, but I've always been intrigued. A local bookstore has copies of Supers and Fantasy. I like games in both settings - are they worth grabbing?
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>>75934308
You'll need the Basic Set, first. Those two books are more about the setting and campaign than raw rules, really: the magic section in Fantasy later became Thaumatology, which is basically a guide for GMs to how to create or tinker with magic systems.

Basic Set (Characters + Campaigns) is enough for a decent medieval campaign, if that's what you're into. Modern works, too, although you want Powers and High-Tech if you want Supers or want operators operating operatively.
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>>75932496
It won't break much, but it will make sword less attractive. They cost so much money, but in return they're sw cut weapons balanced for parrying and don't have to worry as much about reach. Taking away that second advantage or giving to every weapon will make it harder to justify dropping $600 on a weapon instead of $60.

If you're going to pick one, I recommend giving everyone flexible reach. It's the equivalent of giving Reach Mastery! for free, and you don't have to justify why you need to drastically change the grip on your sword to hit someone 1 yard away vs 2 yards away.
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>>75934139
Obviously it's up to the GM, but I feel modifying part of a packaged advantage is justifiable. You can already modify levels of some advantages--i.e. Magery 4 where only level 4 has Dance, or ST +7 where two of those levels of Super-Effort--so I don't see why you couldn't modify components directly.
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>>75934339
Thanks for the advice. I knew I'd need the basic set but I wasn't sure about the others. I just wondered if these were worthwhile.
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>>75934660
>Reach Mastery!
Is the exclamation mark supposed to signify something? Like in Wild Card skills? Is it just "infinite amounts of Reach Mastery for all weapons"?
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>>75935680
>Is it just "infinite amounts of Reach Mastery for all weapons"?
I don't think wildcard perks are actually a thing, but presumably that's what the anon meant. (Reach Mastery doesn't come in levels, though.)
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>>75934139
I would say no but it is an intriguing idea. You don't purchase Combat Reflexes, and can't, when purchasing Enhanced Time Sense and so can't adjust the purchase cost. I would allow Combat Sense specific enhancements and limitations on Enhanced Time Sense. Advantages like this are not packaged deals like Meta-traits but are completely new stand alone traits. At least that's how they are when you build or create a new one and I don't see how that should be treated differently just because it was written by someone else. Though this was made more firm in later Powers-based supplements.
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If I wanted to make melee weapons (axes, swords, etc) effective in a setting with modern firearms what would be the easiest way to do that? Just buff their damage? Buff thrust/swing across the board? Nerf shooting somehow?
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>>75937217
Your main problem is going to be surviving long enough to get into swinging range. What kind of setting are you working with?
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>>75937217
Give those melee retards spare 50 points to spend on movement/acrobatics/stealth to gap closing
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>>75937217
Daredevil and Destiny (for impulse buys, particularly Flesh Wound)
Also in case of games like Monster Hunters, the existence of bullet resistant monsters significantly increases the value of melee specialists.
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>>75935680
>>75935735
Could’ve sworn wildcard perks were a thing. Maybe from Supers? Regardless, that’s what I meant by the exclamation point.
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>>75937279
A not particularly realistic post-apoc setting, sort of like Fallout.

>>75937282
The problem is I don't necessarily want to lock characters into a melee role. Maybe I could allocate characters 50 points that can only be spent on melee combat abilities and they can use their normal pool for stealth/mobility/defense?
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>>75935735
Doesn't come in levels, but do you need to buy it separately for each skill?
And doesn't it just allow 1 free Reach change per round?
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>>75937217
The easiest way would be to do nothing. An axe can kill people just fine.
If you want to make retarded tactics (running straight at an enemy that can shoot you), first ask yourself the question of what exactly are you trying to achieve.
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>>75937583
>do you need to buy it separately for each skill?
No, you need to buy it separately for each <em>weapon</em>, which can get pretty expensive.
>And doesn't it just allow 1 free Reach change per round?
Yes.
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>>75937217
Set the game as civilians in 1989 Tokyo.
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>>75937779
What happened in 1989 Tokyo?
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>>75932510
Yep. In Shadowrun being a Mage 15 points and gives you..

The ability to see magic, letting you see in the dark, though walls and pretty much anything else that isn't a continuous barrier of 'asterally active' life.

It also lets you summon spirits for free with their own powerful abilities. High power sprits are immune to guns.

Use all kinds of magic.

Astral project, flying around and scouting an area. Or cast magic on people.
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>>75937828
End of the Shōwa period and capture of one of Japan's most notorious serial killers, but mostly: Some of the strongest laws in the world preventing firearm ownership. It's very unlikely any PC would be able to get a gun.
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>>75937868
Holy shit that's a lot. What percentage of points is this for your average Shadowrunner?
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>>75937472
>A not particularly realistic post-apoc setting, sort of like Fallout.
Nerf guns. Easily justified by having crappy technology like cartridges reloaded with black powder or even serpentine powder, inaccurate weapons (sticky trigger, bent sights, worn barrel with dubious rifling), unreliable ammunition and guns, rare and expensive ammunition and guns, etc.
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>>75937949
Default in 4th edition was that you start with 400 build points.
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>>75937472
>Maybe I could allocate characters 50 points that can only be spent on melee combat abilities and they can use their normal pool for stealth/mobility/defense?
Nope. If you can't reach Smart-Gun-Guy before he pulls his gun you are already injured or dead, and the best way to get close and personal with someone is to have a fuck ton of movement, acrobatics or stealth, as it's means you can't be hit or seen at all, before you land your attack.
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how do you emulate "just parrying the bullets" in GURPS? a highly cinematic benefit of Trained By A Master? or is there something more specific?
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>>75939500
Parry Missile Weapons skill (Basic 212) with Enhanced Time Sense or Precognitive Parry (Martial Arts 62).
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>>75939500
RAW you need Parry Missile Weapons(a separate skill from your actual weapon skill), Enhanced Time Sense, you take a massive penalty, and your weapon/arm takes full damage from the attack.

Personally I'd just do it as a campaign switch. If you've got TBAM, you just get the ability to parry projectiles, with a penalty/bonus based on size, capping at around -5 for bullets, that can be bought off with a Hard Technique. The parrying object takes no damage on a success, but on a fail they can choose to damage it, or you.

This is of course, highly cinematic, and only fitting for a campaign where such a thing is appropriate, but I think it works pretty well.
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>>75935735
>>75937461
They are from Born to be Wild, from the Monster Hunters III edition of Pyramid
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>>75939796
Why are so many things relevant to such a wide variety of genres hidden away in some obscure corner of Monster Hunters, Action! or Dungeon Fantasy?
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>>75940213
Same problem as 3e had, they didn't remember to design them until working on that specific book, compounded by 4e not having received a Compendium addon yet.
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>>75937217
"effective" is a vague goal in GURPS, because a sword is very effective at killing people dead, dead, dead. An ST 10 normal human with a broadsword in a modern setting (TL7 or above) has a fine broadsword at no further cost and does 1d6+2 cut swing/1d6 imp. Assuming 1 cp in combat skills, their tohit is 9/parry 7. Telegraph for +4, commit for +2 or clock someone from the side. This is more than enough to kill people quite brutally dead.

Other people can't use their bulky guns when fighting the sword fighter because of bulk penalties in melee. Their defences unarmed are pretty poor against a swung melee weapon (-3 parry for all unarmed skills that's not judo/karate).

A sword fighter who knows what they're doing will close the distance using All Out Defend: Dodge (+2 dodge, move up to half move). That's 3 move and dodge 10 at no investment. crouch and it's 2 move and dodge 10, with people being at -2 to hit you. More if you approach them through cover, concealment, broken ground or smoke.

And this is with 1 cp of investment and a broadsword.

Someone with an assault rifle gets to shoot while melee fighters approach, and their high ROF and high damage means being hit is bad. This is how guns work. Not having that means changing how guns work. But try these two two simple switches:

Limit the availability of ammo. You don't even have to limit how many bullets someone have. Make them carry their reloads in a load bearing vest and apply a -4 fast draw penalty if their longarm is in the way, or their hands are occupied. Maybe another 2-3 readies to reload if the ammo is stowed awkwardly. Suddenly ROF 15 starts to be real bad because those 3-10 seconds you're reloading after trying to hit the sword fighter is time you're dying.
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>>75941280
Track light and range for the shooter.

It doesn't even have to be a lot. You have guns 14, a G36, and infinite ammo? Sure, but your target is 5 yards away (-2) and it's a dark (-3) and he's crouching as he sprints at you (-2). Suddenly we're at effective skill 7. Oh, sorry, there's a bit of brush and shrubbery in the way and some broken structure from the Old Days. -2. Skill 5.

Well, our shooter aims (that sword is coming closer), maybe fires 13 shots in a burst for +3, ends at skill 11. That's... not great odds. And if they hit it's not with many bullets. And our incoming swordfighter in this case has dodge 10 from All Out: Dodge. 11 with combat reflexes. 13 with a feverish defence.

So the shooter bursts some more. In melee. That's a -4 for bulk, and the sword-user can parry the gun if he wants to. From 2 yards away because reach 1 sword + bulk 3 or 4 or 5 weapon meet in the middle. And then someone gets stabbed and dies.

But then of course if it's an open ground with time to aim and 100 yards before the sword fighter closes, then they get shot.
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>>75940582
>d, they didn't remember to design them until working on that specific book, compounded by 4e not having received a Compendium addon yet.
On the positive side, some of these things make it into the Basic set with subsequent reprints.
E.g. supplementary skills are finally in Basic with the 7th reprint.
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>>75941355
If it's the "Being shot" and "being shot at" is a problem, try these 3 things:

1) Pyramid 3-88 mentions guns in the Apocalypse are often lacking in repair and bullets aren't the best quality. Increase MALF for more jams, decrease Acc for less repaired guns, and subtract -1damage/die for less-great, slightly old bullets or home-made loads. If you're evil, increase malf every 15 shots if people use poor powder. If the gun jams in a sword-fight, you need to learn to use a sword. conversely this also rewards the gun users. When they find pristine or well-cared for equipment, or they really take care of their stuff? Suddenly it'll blow the competition away.

2) Survivable Guns half damage but add a (2) armour divisor. Pyramid 3-44. Now guns go through armour just as well as before, but being shot isn't as lethal.

>combining 1+2 lead to situations where a bolt action rifle that does 7d+1 basic might instead do 2d6+4 (2) when it's worn out and using not-perfect bullets. Still plenty lethal, but not so supremely so.

3) Let the sword-person *do stuff* the gun-person can't quite do. Sneak up on people and take them out quietly? I got you. Fight robots that are less hurt by piercing? Absolutely. Engage raiders with bulletproof vests that block bullets? Put me in coach! cut through old chains, pad-locks, dingy doors, fences and barricades without wasting precious bullets? That's why I'm on the team, mate. Swarm of murder mutant bees 10 strong? Well a *sword* never runs out of ammo, champ. Etc. This tentacle monster vulnerable to getting it's tentacles cut off, you say? Well, maybe you wish you hadn't laughed at my sword now, friend.
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>>75941280
>>75941355
These anons know what's up.
All you need to do is remember to use all the rules from basic and make the melee-user smart (e.g. use terrain, use smoke grenades)
Of course, if he was actually smart he'd use ranged weapons as well when it makes sense.
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>>75941280
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_8BzXING-A
GURPS built on assumption that all other things equal, sword always beats fist and gun always beats sword. So no, your fancy tricks will just get you riddled with bullets.
>Other people can't use their bulky guns when fighting the sword fighter because of bulk penalties in melee
Broadsword doesn't have C range, though. And gunners are much less screwed over by Move and Attack, and since GURPS has no AoOs by default, even if swordsman is in C range, all it takes is to make one step away from swordsman and shoot away at him, but you can also Move and Attack to deny him a parry on the firearm and also force him to Move and Attack on the following turn as well.

One of my players used dual katanas in cyberpunk campaign quite effectively, but he had Super Jump that allowed him to move 20 hexes or so in a round, and he was reckless enough to constantly use AoAs. Not to mention that I as GM upgraded him to superfine and then monomolecular swords, and if he had used guns, he would've been even more deadly and the party wouldn't had have to scrape him off the floor after every fight.

Still, there's another useful switch - throw a lots of Unliving enemies at the players. Cyborgs, robots, undead, magical constructs - all those are a bitch to kill with firearms, especially since the trend throughout the XIX-XX century was to reduce calibers in favor of muzzle velocity.
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>>75941665
I agree with you. Guns beat swords sometimes (often!)

But I disagree that the fancy tricks won't keep someone alive. That's what fancy tricks do. The above is the minimal starting standard with no investment of any kind other than the sword. I expect a specialised melee fighter to have higher move, dodge, skill. Even a single point of basic speed and combat reflexes means dodge 12 while moving 3/turn. I'll take those odds.

Also keep in mind that move-and-attack while shooting means backpedaling to keep your gun on target. Which is at half move. That really matters. If our gunner turns around to run away, he can't dodge the sword. That's bad for your health!

So our shooter doesn't get far and he's still taking the bulk penalty to his attack. Works allright for stabby purposes. And if he gets too far, we're back in giving him ranged penalties along with the bulk.

But if he's still within 3-4 yards, the fighter can commit, take 2 steps, strike at him with a reach 1 or 2 weapon. Lunge, for a bit more. Straight up body-tackle him as a follow up. And he can't get more than 3-4-5 yards away (Does he have move 10? If he has move 10, our sword fighter has TBAM and will parry those bullets).

Also our swordfighter can forward-step as a dodge at +0, or forward-dive at +3. And still stab. If our shooter back-pedals and fires within reach 1, parry the gun. If he fires within reach 2, parry the gun (your sword has reach 1, his rifle has bulk, they overlap). After that, dodge after him.

You have to be a bit clever about it, and know what you're doing. Smoke grenades, cover and darkness absolutely help. But I don't find that someone with a sword is that easy meat in GURPS.

If they're charging down the middle of a hallway in full view of an assault rifle though it's their own damn fault for turning into fertiliser.
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Since we're talking about post-apocalypse - consider the picrelated. Basically, people there had access to two wonder-materials - ceramics, presumably scavenged from pre-apocalyptic vehicles and such, and Ohmu carapaces, which are even stronger. Former couldn't be used as ammunition because you don't have enough of it, latter is dangerous to obtain and it is shown that you can make it weaker by burning gunpowder or flashpowder on its surface, so it is also probably unusable for making bullets.

>>75941879
So in a very specific situation and with a lots of work sword becomes almost as good as the gun. I mean, I can think of the campaigns where this kind of situation is extremely common (like WWI trench warfare or cyberpunk slums), but post-apoc doesn't strikes me as one of those.
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>>75941355
>>75941879
This all feels very specific and only useful if all the pieces fall right, and in my experience that rarely works out unless your GM is making sure that he gives you good scenarios. I mean, a 5 yard starting distance really doesn't sound like a reasonable assumption to make if you're fighting anywhere outside that isn't indoors or otherwise very dense terrain, and in my experience post-apoc usually involves some degree of open desolate terrain too, particularly if you're moving around the region at all.
I've definitely seen gunfights happen at ranges where a melee fighter couldn't automatically be in range of someone in a turn's move. It was a post-apocalypse setting, mind, so everyone did have melee weapons and skills, and used them when bullets were scarce, the situation didn't warrant using one of our handful of (low-tech and cheap) guns, or we were in a situation where the melee niche was handy (putting my lad with a shield between our shooters and some beastie, for instance). However, I don't think my character going all in on the melee niche would have served him better than being fairly good at it but also being pretty good with a gun and preferring to use that if he could help it. More of a useful tool than a focus, you know?
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Tried to make a water wizard for Karilan. Due to multiple reasons (vague character concept, understanding wizardry, choosing spells etc) it took me almost the whole day, wtf.
The idea is that he's a son of a merchant from New Aventus. He didn't want to become a merchant, though, so he was relieved when he was sent to the Academy of Arcane Arts for education and prestige. After graduating, he decided to join the merchant marines in order to avoid returning home: It was sufficiently close to the trade to serve as excuse, yet he could serve aboard in different capacities. He's expecting for his brother to take the family's business while he's away.
This story is weak but it shall suffice for an experimental character.

I really like familiars but I suspect the character could have been more powerful without it. I also wanted to give him some Contact, but it was too expensive. It's one of the things GURPS do poorly, I think.

I have plenty of questions to Eggplant about Wizardry:
-Is prerequisites in effect or not? Because if so there's a steep barrier to entry in water magic because of Seek Water. I've made a weaker version based on the one found on Chinese Elemental Powers but if your version were a requirement a water mage would require at least 61 points in Sorcerous Empowerment!
-Your 4th point implies one needs to spend a point in skill for every improvised/grimoire spells but if that's so, what's the built-in modular ability for? If that's not a requirement, then the modular ability also makes things funky because it means you cast improvised spells with 4-points skills, while learned spells are likely cast with a 1-point skill...
-Isn't the pricing for Wizardry with -20% limitation wrong? I think it should be (20*0.3)+(25*0.4)=16 but it's listed as 18 points.
-Do you have any ruling for perk-level learned spells? Pyramid #3/82 says they can be maintained at no cost but that's for normal Sorcery, how would it work with Wizardry?
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>>75941860
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>>75937868
>though walls
that is literally just not true
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>>75942376
>anywhere outside that isn't indoors or otherwise very dense terrain
That describes like 90% of adventuring scenarios though? From fantasy to sci-fi, tight corridors and limited line of sight is the name of the game, whether that takes the form of goblin-infested tunnels, a street with garbage bins and cars about, or the walkways of a space station. Wide open areas are the exception.

Also, according to Tactical Shooting, "throughout recorded history, firefights between cops and criminals have averaged a distance of just 3 yards" (p. 9); with that information, it's hard to argue that short distances are rare are grossly unrealistic.
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Is there an opposite of Easy to Read?
Something that operates like a poker face to any mundane (or supernatural, I'm not picky) skills, like Body Language or Empathy?
Am I going to have to make it with Obscure?
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>>75942857
just make it a custom talent
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>>75942857
Yes, Obscure works for that.
t. Pyramid #3-99
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>>75942916
This is perfect.
Thank you, anon.
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>>75942150
>>75942376
Yeah, I agree with you both.

That's just one of the underlying "things" about a semi-realistic focus on how a fight would go. If you have an assault rifle and someone else has a sword, a specific series of circumstances help the sword user win the fight. Otherwise... nope.

I think its worth keeping in mind though. Because any gun-user is limited too. Darkness, concealment, cover, unstable ground, tight corridors, cramped quarters, wet environments or dusty environments that impede guns, lack of ammo, lack of time, so on.

As a general tip I'd always recommend a player pick using a knife and a gun. They both have their ups and their downs so in any "realistic" setting, you want a bit of both!

But people tend to want to create settings where "melee is as viable as ranged". The first step is knowing how many options a melee fighter has to mess up a shooters day. Then step two is setting it up so those things apply and people want to do melee.

You can incentivise melee with high level setting switches: make guns do 1d6 damage and have 5 range or by having everyone be unliving or by decreeing the first shot always misses. Sure, it works.

But if you know that guns are impeded by cover and concealment and smoke, it's a lot more harmonious? Placed the enemy camp in a ravine, with rocks around, a few campfires spitting out smoke. For bonus points, have the raiders throw 2-3 molotovs and let that spread fire and smoke too. And then place the tents a bit cramped and the ground a bit jagged.

Suddenly the ability to fight in melee is a lot more valuable, precisely because the specific circumstances have fallen just right. So the players who want to do that feel rewarded. And if they'd rather be tactical operators they can probably sneak up on said hypothetical ravine and trap the raiders in an enfilade. But if they'd rather be tactical operators, I doubt they're interested in running around with broadswords and karate-fighting shotgunners anyway!
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the mega is down :c
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>>75943075
no, it is not
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>>75943075
See >>75932478
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>>75943153
hmm yes it is.

>>75943159
who the fuck posts links directly goddamn
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>>75943188
i literally just downloded something to make sure it's not down
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>>75943215
Lies.
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>>75943316
you are being foolish
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>>75943323
No.
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>>75943585
Yes.
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>>75943075
>>75943188
>>75943585
You didn't read the PDF all the way through, did you?
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>>75942916
Speaking of weird Obscures, would Obscure (Memory) require Defensive (+50%) to avoid crippling amnesia? It's necessary for using, say, Obscure (Vision) without blinding yourself, but at the same time it's weird to think that an advantage could turn into such a significant disadvantage without the enhancement.

Also, it's cool that the official version of "no one remembers you" comes out to the same price as my homebrew solution; Zeroed (Cosmic, Retroactive, +300%) [40] is equivalent to Obscure 10 (Memory; Defensive, +50%; Stealthy, +100%; Always On, -50%) [40].
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>>75942387
That's a great character concept, thanks for making it! I'm a big fan of familiars as well, but haven't seen then in action in GURPS yet.
As for the questions:
>Is prerequisites in effect or not?
You're right, I should've specified in the primer that prerequisites are not in effect. It's not a good idea.
>Your 4th point implies one needs to spend a point in skill for every improvised/grimoire spells but if that's so, what's the built-in modular ability for? If that's not a requirement, then the modular ability also makes things funky because it means you cast improvised spells with 4-points skills, while learned spells are likely cast with a 1-point skill...
It is not required. One of the earlier version of wizardry did not have the skill part of the Modular Ability, but it made wizards very underwhelming compared to other types of casters. As for the "learned spells with 1 point in a skill and improvised spells with 4 points in a skill" - think of it as of taking extra time to cast at a bonus when you improvise a spell.
>Isn't the pricing for Wizardry with -20% limitation wrong? I think it should be (20*0.3)+(25*0.4)=16 but it's listed as 18 points.
You're right, it should be 16. Pricing with -30% limitation was wrong too. Corrected both values, thank you for pointing that ouy.
>Do you have any ruling for perk-level learned spells? Pyramid #3/82 says they can be maintained at no cost but that's for normal Sorcery, how would it work with Wizardry?
I do not have any rulings, but free maintenance sounds fine by me. It's quite rare to see people take perks as learned spells.
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does eggplant take suggestions? i really like his arena and solo play stuff
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>>75946291
He does. He's planning to do another solo write-up once he has the time for it.
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>>75946318
Excellent.
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Hey, infrequent visitor here. It's been a couple years since I last got to play GURPS but my friends are finally ramping up for another game in the next couple months.

I have a (legal) copy of GURPS basic afaik. Has a reprint been issued and if so how do I get my updated copy?

Also, for those who run dungeon fantasy; what rules do you guys use or like most?

I had an issue in my last game where nobody wanted to use hammers or maces because it wasnt sw cut and they would miss out on damage. Is there anything I can do to compensate or equalize SW cut weapons dominating so hard?
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>>75946402
Why somebody should use maces and hammers when they have access to swords and axes?
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>>75946446
Not sure, flavor I suppose? Issue came up at all because one player was using a big hammer and another guy was using a greatsword and despite the former having a significant ST advantage his damage was quite behind. Of course swords are pretty expensive but it's dungeon fantasy, you get options.

GURPS exists to make anyone's build decent, so how do I make hammers/maces more appealing?
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>>75946584
UNIRONICALLY called shots to the groin
let them buy off the penalty to-hit as a technique
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>>75946608
Nice. I'll for sure allow it.

Maybe I need more use of flexible DR to allow bludgeoning weapons to shine? I also didnt use knockback rules too much so that may be another option. Has anyone who used Edge Protection found it made blunt weapons better?
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>>75946584
>flavor I suppose
So let them play with what weapons they want.
If they want to look cool and be non-optimal then let them be.
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>>75946717
I'd rather work with players to make unusual or interesting combinations that are weaker instead okay. I'm not trying to correct blunt to be better at cut. Fine, very fine both further widen the gap in damage too.

If somebody wants to play a hammer wielding warrior I'll do my best as GM to make sure they dont feel irrelevant for wanting to try something different.
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>>75946681
>Maybe I need more use of flexible DR to allow bludgeoning weapons to shine?
Yes, you'll need to use the mechanics for the appeal of less obvious options to hold their own. GURPS is more about accuracy and variety over uniformity. Hammers and maces are inferior to swords and spears when it comes to killing in virtually all scenarios. However, there's a reason why cops don't carry swords around. Just keep in mind what your players need to do and what they have access to. If somebodies playing a peasant warrior that could only afford to bring a hammer and is only trained in it's use, then that freed up a lot of money and other options for him (mainly trade skills/better horse) for the lack of damage output.
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>>75946891
How do I deal with fine and very fine outpacing damage? Should I just allow fine weapons across the board and remove VF as an option? This isn't just a blunt damage question either as it kind of wrecks melee balance for everything not a sword.
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Is there a large list of every day objects and their weight for GURPS? My players are hoarders and love stacking up on whatever mundane shit they can get their hands on
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>>75946402

"Blunt Trauma and Edge Weapons" rule on LT pg.102 is great for this. It makes armor more powerful in general. Crushing weapons higher base damage makes them more effective in this case, especially vs chainmail.
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>>75935584
Fantasy and Supers are Genre books, they're both good if you want that.
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>>75946402
"Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons" from Low-Tech helps a lot. If you don't deal enough damage to overcome twice the armor's DR, then your cutting attack instead deals crushing damage; you fail to actually cut through the armor and instead harm your target by bludgeoning them with your sword.

Under these rules, most legitimate armor will turn a broadsword into a very expensive, very crappy mace. Limiting how often that x1.5 injury multiplier gets used makes the relative +2 damage maces have over swords (and the relative +1 damage they have over axes) very noticeable. It won't totally balance the field, but it should close the gap enough that people that think hammers and maces are cooler won't be severely punished for pursuing their preferred weapon. Also, swords are like x10 the cost of maces, so they better damn well have some advantages to justify that.
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>>75947519
What's the TL? DF8: Treasure Tables has a metric ton of random stuff listed for TL1-4, from bolts of cloth to candelabras to wooden tableware. For a more modern game, the sheer variety poses a problem; googling individual items as needed may be your best bet, as much as that sucks.

You could also pull a page from After the End: anything you don't feel like tracking is just labeled as Junk; it costs $1 per 10 pounds of miscellaneous crap you're hauling around, but that value can count towards parts requirement for almost any repair or invention job (there's bound to be *something* useful in all that junk).
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>>75947846
TL 2, I'll check out the treasure tables, That sounds like what im looking for, These guys fucking love tableware,Thanks!
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>>75946925
Fine and Very Fine swords are self-limiting due to their exorbitant cost. When the sword user drops $3k on a Fine Thrusting Bastard Sword, you have to look at what the hammer user can get for the same cost. They can get DR 6 plate covering their entire body for only a hair more than the sword cost, or they can get a wagon pulled by two saddle horses, or (in a more fantastical game) they can stock up on a number of exotic or minor magic items like potions, scrolls, and the like. For the cost of a Very Fine Thrusting Bastard Sword, they can get some *serious* magical gear.
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>>75946402
>I have a (legal) copy of GURPS basic afaik. Has a reprint been issued and if so how do I get my updated copy?
You should be able to just log in to W23, go to My Account - Downloads and the link will automatically give you the latest version. Basic Set did get an update recently and it was quite a nice one, adding complimentary skills.

Maces get +1 base damage compared to the cutting equivalent, but that only really matters if the target has so much DR that an average hit is barely hurting them. You can add enemies which are vulnerable to crushing: the Amorphous Stone meta-trait from DF Monsters 3 basically flips the effects of cutting and crushing. Skeletons usually take double damage from crushing and are also easy to send flying with knockback (which crushing does better). Anything Diffuse has a damage cap, so multipliers don't really matter.
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>>75946584
Are you using the Low-Tech rules which stealthily increased the two-handed axe/mace weapons' damage? For some reason they didn't change them in the latest version of the basic set, but mauls should be doing swing+5 now, which helps a little. Not in competing against great axes though, since they also got a damage boost, and 2HA/M still suck a lot compared to swords.
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Is Magic and Ultra-tech really that bad?
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>>75948871
Magic is good if you want hundreds of spells, some of them of dubious balance, some of them capable of breaking the economy.
Ultra-tech is mostly only good for inspiration and general rules - almost every single item needs scrutiny and is a problem either from a mechanics stand-point or research stand-point.
Of the two, Magic is of limited use, but fine for what it is (if you don't count the art), while UT is of less use for your sci-fi game than High-Tech is.
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>>75948421
This makes me wonder. GURPS has some really deep autism rules (that can be surprisingly useful when you want to rebalance something or figure out what the writers were thinking) - such as changing gun damage based on mass and muzzle velocity or The Deadly Srping which does similar for bows.
Is there anything like that for muscle powered weapons?
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>>75948871
Yes
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>>75946402
Maces and hammers deals higher basic damage, you need a very fine broadsword or fine axe to deal the same damage as a normal mace. At the beginning of a game, the money you save allows you to buy better armor.
Mail and scale/lamellar armor were much more common through history and these are vulnerable to crushing damage. I find it weird that blunt trauma doesn't apply to rigid armor (ie plate) but in any case Low Tech Companion 2 gives the option to use crushing weapons to dent articulations, if you succeed the affected body part is considered to be crippled.
In supernatural setting there are creatures that are vulnerable to crushing damage, namely most skeletons.
A warhammer should have a pick on the other side, which allows you to do devastating sw imp attacks. Maybe it's just me but for a long time I thought the "stuck" rules were a downside but it's actually an upside: While it's stuck and you win the quick contest of ST, the enemy can't move, which means you can use it to "capture" enemies so your allies can pick on him. The ST roll to remove is unopposed and unpenalized, which means that at higher STs it's practically guaranteed to come off and because the weapon deals half damage on its way out, it's essentially a free damage (no roll to hit, no active defenses, no damage roll). Besides, picks allows you to target chinks at reduced penalties and if using the alternative rules from LTC2 it becomes a (2) armor divisor instead.
It's also frequently recommended to use the Blunt Trauma and Edged Weapons rules from LT102, it makes armor react to bladed weapons in a much more realistic way.
It's rare to come up in a DF game but sometimes you don't want to kill the enemy for a multitude of reasons and in those cases crushing weapons are useful, especially if you're dealing with bleeding and infections.
Finally, a meta benefit is that limiting yourself to crushing attacks allows you to take a Vow worth -10 points.
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>>75949030
Matter of Inches, The Broken Blade, The Last Gasp and some optiona rules from LTC2 comes to mind.
I also recall Douglas Cole once posted an alternative damage table that was a complete mess.
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>>75949676
>I also recall Douglas Cole once posted an alternative damage table that was a complete mess.
https://gamingballistic.com/2012/12/30/grand-unified-smackdown-theory-part-1/
PDF related is an alternative version.
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How hard-coded is stuff in GCS?
Is it possible to add house-rules to it or to change the basic rules?
e.g. if I want to reduce ST to cost 8CP?
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>>75950194
Depends how willing you are to delve into the code, but many simple house rules are already available. For example, you can create an advantage which reduces the cost of any attribute, because No Fine Manipulators does that so the code is already there. Literally just add new advantage, add feature, reduces the attribute cost of...
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Speaking of GCS, is there any way to stop it auto-filling a bunch of crap for name, height, skin tone, etc?
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>>75950335
Yes.
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What maneuver is being shown at 0:04? Is that a takedown or a judo throw? He changed posture and attacked with a knife before the other guy could stand up, how did he do that in GURPS terms?
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>>75952584
Grab -> Force Posture Change -> Knife Stab
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>>75952584
Okay it looks like the order of events is...
>Gasmask uses Fast-Draw (Knife) and Moves
>Bald detects him, takes All-Out Defense (Parry) and turns to face Gasmask
>Gasmask either All-Out Attacks (Double) or Dual-Weapon Attacks with Knife Thrust > Torso and Punch > Face; Bald successfully parries the knife but not the punch
>Bald spends his turn suffering from Shock, probably takes All-Out Defense
>Gasmask establishes a grapple regardless and follows through with an immediate grappling move (via Rapid Strike or Combination technique, AOA (Double), or ATR (Cinematic Melee Takedowns Only)).
The mechanics of what happens next depends on if you're using Basic, A New Take on Grappling, Technical Grappling, or Fantastic Dungeon Grappling, but ultimately Bald ends up on the ground with Gasmask in a dominant position.
>Gasmask attacks with Knife, possibly Knife Swing > Neck but it's hard to tell; Bald fails to defend and is presumably killed.
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>>75952584
>Is that a takedown or a judo throw?
Could be either, the distinction is vague.
>He changed posture and attacked with a knife before the other guy could stand up, how did he do that in GURPS terms?
Other guy was stunned, either mentally or physically and skipped a turn, or gasmask did two attacks on his turn with a 'dive' to a kneeling posture in between them (Martial Arts p.98).
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>>75953038
>>Bald spends his turn suffering from Shock, probably takes All-Out Defense
He was struck on face/skull, so he likely rolled for knockdown/stun at -5/-10 and failed, though not not by 5 or more, and ended up stunned. Failing to recover could explain why he did nothing to defend himself after being thrown down.

By the way, the rules around this part is a little off. B399 says:
>Face (-5): The jaw, cheeks, nose, and ears. Many helmets have an open face, allowing this attack to ignore armor DR! Knockdown rolls are at -5, and critical hits use the Critical Head Blow Table. Corrosion damage (only) gets a x1.5 wounding modifier . . . and if it inflicts a major wound, it also blinds one eye (both eyes on damage greater than full HP).
As I understand, it means your knockdown rolls are always at -5. But B420 says:
>Whenever you suffer a major wound, and whenever you are struck in the head (skull, face, or eye) or vitals for enough injury to cause a shock penalty (see Shock, p. 419), you must make an immediate HT roll to avoid knockdown and stunning.
>Modifiers: -5 for a major wound to the face or vitals (or to the groin, on a humanoid male); -10 for a major wound to the skull or eye; +3 for High Pain Threshold, or -4 for Low Pain Threshold.
It's clear that you always roll for knockdown if struck on head, but I'm not sure when the modifiers are applied. B399 makes me believe it always applies, but the Modifiers section makes it seem it only applies if it's a major wound.
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>>75953308
Went to the forum and the consensus seems to be that those penalties only applies on major wounds. It makes sense, otherwise you could knockdown an elephant with relative east by punching it in the face.
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>>75953038
>DM Triggers C4
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>>75953308
I considered it being a knockdown and stun, but he still seems to be solidly on his feet before Gasmask flips him to the ground. I never got the impression that he was half a second from falling over on his own. I guess clocking the guy then following to the ground wouldn't be cool enough for a scripted cinematic takedown animation.

The -5 only applies on an actual major wound; a light tap on the jaw does not saddle you with a -5 to Knockdown/Stunning rolls.
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>>75953417
One is only knocked down if they fail their knockdown roll by 5 or more, any less than that is a stun.
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>>75953584
You're confusing Knockdown and Unconsciousness.
>On a failure, you’re stunned; see Effects of Stun, below. You fall prone (if you weren’t already), and if you were holding anything, you drop it. This effect is called “knockdown,” and isn’t the same as “knockback” (see p. 378).
>On a failure by 5 or more, or any critical failure, you fall unconscious!
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>>75953619
Oh, you're right. I think the rules could be more granular though, three steps (stun - knockdown - unconsciousness ) instead of two steps. Maybe the first part is presumed on shock but it doesn't affect defenses which I think one should when hit on the face (every one has a plan until hit on the face)
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>>75953719
Honestly, I dislike Shock just on a conceptual level since it overlaps so much with other mechanics and muddies the waters unnecessarily. To make things worse, the only way to apply Pain in combat is with a grappling lock or a supernatural affliction; apparently a knife in the belly just doesn't have the same oomph as a wrist pinch, since one caps out at -4 to skills for 1 seconds and the other can be a lasting -6 (or total shutdown if they hit Agony).

Hell, one of the reasons I like Condition Injury so much is that it lets you swap Shock for actual Pain.
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>want to try GURPS
>the mega is down
>libgen has every book except the core rules
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>>75954746
the mega is not down, you just can't read
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why is the mega down?
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>>75954874
Nah, I checked the file in >>75928858, it's down.
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>>75954874
Sorry anon, I think you're retarded. If you click the link in the pdf it's down.
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>>75954968
Nah.
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>>75955061
Oh, figured it out. Isn't that a bit dangerous, relying on people to log into the actual mega to be able to download books? They could just delete everything if they wanted.
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>>75955061
how
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>>75955159
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>>75955159
It looks like you have to log into the mega itself to download anything, both links are down. That's pretty stupid on the part of whoever set it up, honestly.
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>>75955153
They're all backed up, and no. It filters retards pretty heavily. Anybody stupid enough to delete the books probably wouldn't realize that the deletion can be undone instantly.
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>>75955198
NOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAWWWWGGGGGGHHH
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>>75954874
>>75955198
Don't blame anon too much, I did not include explicit instructions in >>75932478
Sure, he can figure it out if he stares at >>75928858 long enough, but it's not as explicitly obvious I made it in the previous 2 OPs
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>>75955153
The alternative was taking it down to remake the link and the OP pdf every thread because dipshits kept linking it directly.
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God I feel great. I just overhead pressed 145lbs, officially putting me at ST 19. Still feel DYEL though.
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>>75956013
Nice, time to learn Boxing and get a per die damage bonus to that sweet 2d-1 thrust.
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>>75956013
>ST 19
Alright, I'll bight, how do you figure?
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>>75956256
BL is (ST x ST)/5
I can lift 145lbs overhead in one second with two hands, or 72.5lbs with one hand.
(ST x ST)/5 = 72.5
(ST x ST) = 362.5
ST = 19.03
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>>75956323
Wait, you've lifted 72.5lb with 1 hand over your head in 1 second?
You've done this feat? Because 145lb overhead in one second with two hands doesn't mean you can do half that in the same amount of time.
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>>75947594
With the LT102 rules does that mean swords would get to do more damage to chain or is it still considered a cutting attack in regards to flexible armor?

>>75947741
Yeah I am leaning towards these rules. Should also lower overall damage creep too I think.

>>75948062
I will try to keep that in mind. I allow all the DF upgrades like Dwarven etc, what is a good hammer/axe specific upgrade similar to how Very Fine is to Swords? Maybe not a +damage bonus but something more interesting like +chance to break weapons/shields or the likes. Maybe Orichalcum will be restricted to non-thin metal weapons or something. I do have to be concerned about making swords not worth their cost but I think the 1.5x cut multiplier will be too juicy to pass up especially once the group has ample cash.

>>75948421
Huh no I had completely missed that change. So weird that is like that. I will need to just use LT tables for everything I guess.

>>75949648
I think allowing blunt to crush articulations may be too much rules bloat for my group to handle. I will have to remember to use creatures vulnerable to crushing though and especially that picks basically hit 1.5 times. The vow for -10 is also great as it gives the hammer user another +2 skill in their chosen weapon. All things I will need to consider when moving into my next campaign. Thank you!
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>>75956323
>>75956013
the GURPS "Lifting something over your head in one second" isn't the same as an overhead press anon.
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>>75956323
Lifting over your head doesn't mean jack if the weight start's right below your head like with a standing press. I've always read that starting from the ground, like a clean and jerk.
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>>75956366
No, but by RAW I have ST 19 (using two hands doubles your BL). Dumbbell OHP is for brainlets, but once I hit 160 in a few months or so I'll come back and let you know if I can do it with 80lb dumbbells.

>>75956390
Dang, I'm strict pressing and everything, no jerking or lower body at all. What's the GURPS interpretation of lifting something over your head in one second?
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>>75956386
>I will try to keep that in mind. I allow all the DF upgrades like Dwarven etc, what is a good hammer/axe specific upgrade similar to how Very Fine is to Swords?
How about preventing the weapon from becoming unready after attacking (‡ on ST)?
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>>75956431
Dang, that's ridiculous though. That would mean that Aleksey Lovchev's clean and jerk record of 582lbs would only put him at a strength of 12 because he used two hands and it took him 10 seconds.
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>>75956434
> What's the GURPS interpretation of lifting something over your head in one second?
Ok so pic related is an overhead press right?
You've already got it like halfway there, in that case. I've always interpreted BL as like, picking something up from a resting position, say on a table or on the floor, up over your head, in one second. It might be a little ambiguous but the reason I think it's this way is that picking something up from a resting position is more common in adventuring, and also there's no reason to assume they're using weightlifting terminology when the target audience isn't lifters.

Also, you've clearly got lifting skill, which is further boosting you.
>>
>By default, natural DR does not protect your eyes (or windows, if you are a vehicle) or help against purely mental attacks, such as telepathy
Is there a way to have DR over your eyes that isn't picking up Force Field? Looking at books like Supers, everyone just seems to grab standard DR and call it fine, so does that mean that I should just ignore that line, or is it just an unspoken assumption that all these superhumans and supersuits go down like bitches if you shoot them in the eyes and deny them their 60+ DR (Damage Reduction exists for a lot of them, but it still feels weird)?
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>>75956434
19 st means you can lift a thousand pounds over your head.
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>>75954746
Libgen does have the core books - that's how I downloaded the rules onto my phone when mega as a whole was fucking up on it.
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>>75956447
I don't think it would break anything. I am surprised it isn't an optional rules already and had to double check to see if it wasn't. Sounds good!
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>>75956386
>I allow all the DF upgrades like Dwarven etc, what is a good hammer/axe specific upgrade similar to how Very Fine is to Swords? Maybe not a +damage bonus but something more interesting like +chance to break weapons/shields or the likes.
The Impact Maul from DF8 (p. 22) is a nice option, as is allowing spikes from Low-Tech Companion 2, which give you another +1 to damage, bringing a maul up to sw+6. An ethnic cool hammer might have double blunt trauma or double knockback. The sheer weight can be an advantage in breaking enemy weapons (and resisting breakage), and you could increase that effect by maybe having them count as double their real weight for breakage purposes.
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>>75956614
Nictating Membrane is, effectively, DR (Eyes Only) as a separate advantage. 90% of people forget it exists though and just let DR affect the eyes too, so really it's up to you. What is appropriate for one campaign may not be appropriate for another; in a supers game, a shot to a PC's eye should bounce off as harmlessly as it would against a their rippling bicep, while in a dark fantasy game, sticking a bolt or knife in the eye is one of the few ways a normal human can hope to take down a monster covered in thick scales and coarse hide.
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>>75956614
Nictitating Membrane is the official way to do it, although it is just as expensive as adding Force Field. Shooting people in the eyes does seem to be fully effective if they have bulletproof skin. I guess they mostly just rely on not facing super-shooters who can actually hit the eyes or genre convention (comic book code) disallowing injury to the eyes.
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>>75956013
There are no rules specifically for overhead press in GURPS (that I'm aware of), but in AD&D you have a strength of 14, which is decent for a fighter if you're rolling.
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Hello, is the mega down?
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>>75957683
Yes. You have to buy all your GURPS books on Warehouse23 now. Get to it.
http://www.warehouse23.com/
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You are all absolutely the worst pirates I have ever seen
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>>75957741
>>75957815
Don't gatekeep me
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>>75957840
>>75955203
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>>75956908
>>75957007
I constantly bring up nicitating membrane, my GM never lets me have it though. I recommend it to every new player we get too.
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>>75957840
not gatekeeping means it gets taken down, faggot
don't ruin it for everyone else
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>>75956386

>
With the LT102 rules does that mean swords would get to do more damage to chain or is it still considered a cutting attack in regards to flexible armor?

Swords get the worst of either world in this case. The damage conversion to crushing comes at the very end when you find out damage past armor, so you don't get the lower DR vs crushing for chainmail.
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>>75957906
take it easy fag, I didn't post any fucking link
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>>75956908
>>75957007
Huh. That feels like a quite roundabout way of doing things, compared to how these kinds of advantages usually handle it.
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>>75957683
there's no way this isn't on purpose now
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My googlefu fails me. Does anyone know houserules for scaling DR price with TL?
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>>75958715
It's just some of that weirdness that carried over from earlier editions. If we somehow get a 5e, I'd bet good money that Nictating Membrane would be folded into general DR.
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>>75959327
Maybe this? https://gamingballistic.com/2014/06/17/scaling-character-dr-by-tech-leve/
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>>75959685
Yeah, that seems it. Thanks!
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>>75946257
Thanks for the clarification!

Here's another character, he's a half-elf from Indaril, son of a Fire Elf father and Human mother. His father is a nobleman and as such steered him to military career since young. His timid nature and the harsh parenting strained his relationship with his father, but he endured it because his mother would always sooth his fears and encourage him to not give up. However when his mother, who always had a frail constitution, and his father didn't return from a campaign, he decided he had it enough. He ran away from home not much later, heading to New Aventus seeking a new life away from his father. He has seem some success as a writer, but despite his dislike for combat he always ends up taking decision that ends up putting him into harm's way.
Under the hood, his father loves him and still hopes his son will one day return and as such he keeps an eye on him through personal agents and provides occasional help. The character is coward, but valour runs in his blood (quirk level CoH) and his repressed remorse from running away from duty makes him go adventuring, seeking a fight that might make him feel better. His also something of a womanizer, though not a full fledged bard level, but because of his past he has sort of a mommy issue when it comes to relationships.
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>>75960704
And of course I forget to attach the pdf. Here it is.
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>>75960704
That's a neat character, thanks. The only nitpick I have is that he uses the normal half-elf racial template instead of the fire half-elf one. Good job!
My next solo game character is going to be an fire elf from Indaril.
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>>75960715
He's not bad. Pretty dependent on throwing fireballs in combat, but to be fair that's a really sold trick. As long as he stays behind the other party members he should be fine. His Cowardice flaw should keep him out of close combat where his mediocre skills and lack of Combat Reflexes can get him dead quick.
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>>75960923
Oh right, I forgot to change that. It would add some points so I think I'd spend them on skills to make him look properly educated from birth. Savoir-Faire (High Society), Law, History, and the skills listed under The Medieval Curriculum on LTC1. Some are less useful than others and I'd fold them into a Dabbler perk. If there's still points left, I'd improve his sorcery talent or give Energy Reserve.

>>75964819
Your analysis is spot on, it reflects what I had in mind when I built him. His build by itself is pretty basic (boring) "fire mage" but as you said it's solid enough for his point totals.

I made yet another character, he's an Orc from Tumar currently serving as mercenary in Indaril. He was part of the ranks in Tumar but he joined a clandestine revolutionary group. However he had to flee after their operations were discovered by the Waterblood loyalists. He ended up in Indaril, serving them as mercenary fighting in their northern borders. His military talents eventually became apparent, and one of the Fire Elven officers decided it would be a waste to let him perish as a cannon fodder and took him under his tutelage.
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>>75965765
Nice. I wish I was able to come up with character concepts as you do. One of my players is a big fan of the Smasha style.
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>>75965846
Thanks! I don't consider myself particularly creative, especially seem what some people came up in elsewhere.
I usually start with some idea or something I want to test, like some interesting trait/spell I find or "using familiar to enhance spellcasting". Then I just build it from there, figuring out what kind of character would make sense to have those. To add some character to their story I usually get ideas from other characters or historical figure. For example the water mage I posted a while ago was loosely based on the guild militia from free cities in HRE, and the backstory of the orc character was based on Gadaffi (involvement with free officer's movement and later transfer to UK).
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Mega links are giving errors, is everything down?
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>>75968015
>>75955203
oops, didn't read that
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Bump.

Grinding my way through mammals.
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>>75971724
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>>75971752
hello where is the table of contents c:
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>>75965765

There's nothing wrong with him, and you've clearly got a strong concept there.

But that's a lot of points to cash conversion, and at TL 3 you get painfully little cash per point. You could instead get Comfortable Wealth and Cheap gear to start out.

I admire the restraint of anyone who takes Smasha and doesn't immediately rush DR 1 (Tough Skin).
>>
Running a TL8 campaign where players should have access to ballistic shields, should I forgo the "bullets can't be Blocked" rule and allow players to block bullets with their shield, but only if they've taken an all-out defense on their last turn?
The way I see it (and the way the basic set explains it), bullets can't normally be blocked because they're moving too fast for a character with normal human reaction times to successfully react to block it. But if a player is already shielding themselves when their turn ends, as they likely would be if taking an all-out defense, then their shield is already in position to block whatever projectiles may be coming at them. Of course, I'll be referencing the listed shield DR to determine what, if anything, should penetrate the shield instead of letting players tank all incoming fire with it.
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>>75974687
Sounds like a good enough reason, and you've obviously thought about it

Give it a try and tell us how it goes

And remember enemies have access to all the same maneuvers
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>>75973394
Thanks! The reason I spent so many points on Trading Points for Money is because I decided to use the 20%/80% Starting Money split rule and needed enough money to buy a Thrusting Bastard Sword to fit his Sylvan Sword Lore training. Using PK's alternative Trading Points for Money rule, it takes 10 points to get enough cash for that.
In hindsight, the unwritten backstory of this sword is that it's a gift from his Patron, so I probably should have bought the Equipment enhancement instead...
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Is there any way for a Wrestler to throw someone to the ground and deal damage to them, without using a Judo Throw for Damage, whether it be a suplex or just picking them up and spiking them into the ground like a volleyball? For reference, I am using Technical Grappling.

Pile Driver is very good, but VERY cinematic, and also a bit too specific for all but a few "moves". "Kiss the Wall" from Smash and Grab, is more for grabbing their head and bashing it against the wall/floor, Hotline Miami style, rather than throwing someone against the ground.
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>>75974884
No 'kiss the wall' can cover any move which involves smashing someone into something, including the floor.
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>>75974884
I'm no expert so I just consulted the books and your choices seems to be either go full gorilla and lift someone and then throw them to the ground dealing fall damage, use Skill Adaptation (Sacrifice Throw defaults to Wrestling), or accept that complex wrestling moves that allows you to throw someone to the ground without relying on strength is part of Judo skill. Remember, skill names are just for convenience, it's perfectly reasonable for a western knight trained in grappling techniques having Sumo Wrestling or Judo skill.
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>>75975053
"If you’ve used two hands to grapple a foe and you’re
standing or kneeling, you can ram him into a wall or
other massive object within a yard – or the ground, if he’s
lying down. This isn’t a Judo Throw (p. 75), but an
attempt to hold onto your victim and propel him using
your own momentum."

Seems to imply to me, that you can only use the ground if they're lying down, and the next passage

"If your victim is lying down,
you can only target his face or skull"

Also makes me imagine it to be "Grabbing someone by the head/hair and beating their face against the ground"

>>75975095
Yeah, but I was considering for a "pure" wrestler since many Wrestling Styles don't include Judo, though now that you mention it Skill Adaption(Offensive Judo Throw defaults to Wrestling) is basically Perfect for what I had in mind. It requires a QC and already having a grab established, so it's very good for "Manhandling" someone and bodyslamming them.
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>>75975172
>>"If your victim is lying down, you can only target his face or skull"
>Also makes me imagine it to be "Grabbing someone by the head/hair and beating their face against the ground"
Technical Grappling p. 19 (How to Cripple and Kill) suggests that it can be used against limbs as well.
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>>75974687
That's not a bad solution at all, but GURPS also makes references to using shields as cover, simply holding them close to your body and letting it passively absorb blows. There's not a lot of crunch for this--you'll need to determine what hit locations are covered by any given shield on your own--but there's precedent for it. There's the homebrew rules from TBones if you want some numbers to go by.
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>>75975172
That's really weird. The target doesn't have to be pressed against a wall before you can throw them into it, nor do they already need to be on a desk to get slammed into it, but you can only "propel" someone into the floor if they're already lying on the pavement?
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>>75974884
Lazy solution: use the rules for custom techniques to let you Judo Throw with Wrestling at -1, and refluff as necessary.
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After reading these threads for a while, I decided to get the core books to check out and possibly use for future games that I'm working on. However, after skimming through them, GURPS looks needlessly bloated and overly complex compared to Savage Worlds or FATE. Why exactly do people constantly praise this system again? Also, the binding of one of my books broke as soon as I opened it, so I'll admit that I'm a bit salty about that.
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>>75975951
It's as bloated as you want it to be.
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>>75975951
GURPS is a buffet
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>>75975951
Having a lot of things ("bloat") is good when you just strip out everything you don't plan on using. Then you don't have to make new rules off the top of your head all the time
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>>75975951
The GURPS Method is 'no question left unanswered'. If you look hard enough, there's probably a chart somewhere about the speed of water going down an hill VS Lava VS Mud, in 99% of game this won't be useful, but the day your heroes decide to blow up a dam, you'll have it on hand.
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>>75975951
>bloated
It might look that way at first, but keep in mind all of those insanely niche rules and abilities in the collective 575 pages are meant to cover countless different game types. Don't bother with rules that are irrelevant for your campaign, and never use rules that run counter to the flavor you're trying to hit. Dark fantasy game about merc troupes? All that shit above vehicle operation, avoiding the bends while diving, and inventing new gadgets can be safely ignored. On the flip side, though, if you wanted to run a game about survivors of not!Rapture scubaing around in a submarine trying to live another day, you probably don't need the rules for mass combat or maintaining your hirelings.

Also the older books had issues with cheap binding. What's the date above the barcode on the back cover?
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>>75976166
7th printing, September 2019.

And part of the bloating thing that I was talking about was stuff like how there's a separate skill for every weapon and martial art instead of just a fighting skill, or how you use the same massive pool of points for everything when building a character and have to sit there keeping track of ten points at a time across your massive list of skills and disadvantages, and everything else.
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>>75975951
>Also, the binding of one of my books broke as soon as I opened it, so I'll admit that I'm a bit salty about that.
If it's one of the ones with shitty binding from the first printing, they replace those free of charge. Just e-mail customer services.
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>>75975951
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>>75976341
>separate skill for every weapons (types)
that's a good thing though. Just because you're good with an AK doesn't mean you know how to use a Flamethrower/MosinNagant to the same level.
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>>75975951
>GURPS looks needlessly bloated and overly complex compared to Savage Worlds or FATE.
If you don't give a shit about detail and are fine with most reasonable characters being virtually indistinguishable in terms of rules (which isn't to say they are indistinguishable; characterisation matters) then yeah, GURPS is just too much. GURPS is for people who want their archaeologist who trains in BJJ and point-shooting to feel different to a historian who went through infantry training and does a lot of boxing. In a simple system, both of them will just have points in shooting, fighting, and humanities. In GURPS it often matters whether you summon demonic energy to blast your enemies with hellfire or you channel psychic energy to produce electrical storms. In a simpler system, they're both just a blast with some flavour text.
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>>75976341
>And part of the bloating thing that I was talking about was stuff like how there's a separate skill for every weapon and martial art instead of just a fighting skill...
The big issue for me with skill systems is that you often want to distinguish between steering a ship and steering a car, or between biochemistry and brain surgery, because it is wildly cinematic for someone to be good at a really wide range of stuff. But at the same time, it feels autistic to learn five different skills to just kill dudes using sharp pieces of metal. Like, nobody finds it shocking that an expert knife-fighter could handle themselves when armed with a hatchet. So, you either have skills which work on a completely different scale from one another (and then people disagree about which ones should go where), you have some skills which are way more useful than others (e.g. Savage Worlds boating vs. fight), you have ultra-wide skills for everything (which is too cinematic for many games and eliminates distinct niches), you go full-autism-huge-skill-list like GURPS, or you have a complex multi-tiered skill system. GURPS kind of does the multi-tiered thing, but not very well. You've got specialisations, familiarities and techniques, which are all adding even more detail onto a system most people think is already too detailed. On the other end, you've got Wildcard skills which are a good concept, but hampered by being poorly defined and not well balanced, which leads to fudges like giving them extra bonuses.
>or how you use the same massive pool of points for everything when building a character and have to sit there keeping track of ten points at a time across your massive list of skills and disadvantages, and everything else.
This really shouldn't be a problem in a world where virtually everyone has a smartphone.
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>>75975951
GURPS is the crunchy, complex alternative to the lighter, simpler generic systems out there - it interprets 'generic' as having many rules for everything that you may or may not need, so you can use a bunch of specific rules to make the game you want, rather than the more common approach of having fewer, broader rules that can easily be applied to whatever setting you need.
Whether or not it's the best system for you depends on how much detail you want in your rules, mainly - despite what the memes tell you, GURPS is not always the answer.
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>>75976341
I agree those can be excessive (it's a big reason why some of my friends dislike GURPS). There are alternative rules to simplify melee weapons and gun skills though.

That is another big problem of GURPS: a lot of useful rules are tucked away in random Pyramid articles or supplements.
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>>75977144
>That is another big problem of GURPS: a lot of useful rules are tucked away in random Pyramid articles or supplements.
this tango bravo hotel, half of of GURPS Action 2 should've been in the basic set from the start (especially so for BAD)
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Another Karilan character, this time it's a Centaur. This time I don't have any backstory for it though. I just really wanted to experiment with Centaur racial build.
I'm a disrespectful prick so instead of following Eggplant's racial template I created a variant using PK's suggestion (see notes) on how to build such character. I think it works well.
Centaurs (arguably) have many advantages that other races don't, like constantly enjoying the benefit of fighting at different levels like a man on a horseback and the possibility of dealing high damage with Move and Attack, but I don't think I'd play one in a real game. Mostly because of little problems their physiology could cause (indoor environments, climbing etc).
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i think gurps is BURPS
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>>75977649
>>>/d/
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>>75976341
>7th printing, September 2019.
Huh, weird. I haven't heard anything recently about a drop in binding quality, so I'm guessing you just had bad luck with it; maybe that shipment got backed in the sun longer or something. Sorry man.
>>
People either get the "bloat" or they don't. The fact that you can take GURPS down to as minimal a level you want, notwithstanding. Playing systems like FATE or Savage Worlds, I feel like I'm crimping my story and character goals for an "easier" ruleset. I crave the complexity of GURPS. It makes the things I create feel fully realized.
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>>75955584
I don't understand how you're supposed to "figure it out" on your own at all given there's zero instructions in the OP pdf, which just helpfully says
>If you want to add books to the archive,
as if anyone wanting to pirate the books for the first time is going to want to add books to the archive.
I don't even understand why the broken links are still in that pdf.
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>>75977962
Luckily, my brother, who is a librarian, has access to a rebinding machine.
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Ally for my next character (not Karilan), a "snow tiger". Based on the Tiger ally from DF5 and GURPS Animalia, modified for KYOS, Split IQ/Per/Will and tweaked to fit my vision.
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>>75978271
This OP was fucked up. The proper OP has this in it:
>Due to a takedown request, links to the MEGA archives are currently disabled. Use the logon in the PDF to access files or try Library Genesis
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>>75977614
I've had a player who was considering playing a centaur, but decided against it for the very same reasons. Also, that's some good PK rules, thanks for the link.
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>>75978843
Then why were the other anons being such complete cunts? Lmao had they themselves not read the PDF and accompanying text which had been posted?
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>>75978513
Here's the main character, an accomplished hunter from the cold north. I imagine he'd make a terrible enemy, his Snow Tiger can quickly move across snow and uneven grounds without slowing down so it's very difficult to lose them and even if you do momentarily, their high Tracking skills makes it very likely that they'd find you soon enough. I suppose his only weakness is that his only ranged attack is throwing spears, so he can't pull a mongol and harass from distance.
I would probably give him a tribal mask that doubles as snow goggles. Being unable to see a human face should increase his intimidation factor.
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>>75976776
There's also skill defaults though, so a guy who is really good with knives will probably also be passingly good at some similar weapons without actually having skill at them
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>>75983010
>>75982970

Subject came up in another thread concerning the use of dirty fighting and pocket sand. Good point came up about how even if you fail to block the sand you are almost certainly passing the HT check. So how do we make dirty fighting a still viable tactic in settings like DF? Acid, Poison or something else? Technique to buy off penalty? How do we pass the HT check of your average opponent?
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>>75983075
>he used my screenshot
Noice, also thanks for reviving this thread. I'll go see if I can get my GM to pop on.
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>>75983098
I mean we have to keep it alive even if it does have the fucked up OP
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>>75983103
Campaigns page 428
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>>75983125
Pepper spray is often a condensed form of capsaicin, I see no reason one couldn't have ground chilis in their pockets to throw in the eyes of someone else.

Additionally on page 191 under the entry for Pollaxe Fighting it details a concealed hollow space in the head where blinding powder may be stored. I would argue using Low Tech Companion 2's rules on weapon design you could probably include this design into many different bludgeoning weapons which would allow a wide range of skills (and weapons) to be used as an applicator for such a powder or dirty trick.
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>>75983075
>t. Dale
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>>75977614
>>75979052

I find centaurs work best with an Alternate Form that lets them turn into a humanoid shape. It's a magical creature in any case and Alternate Form cheaper then the racial template is very cheap. It's sort of a cheat, but it does let them play alongside everyone else without you needing to constantly consider centaur accessibility.

Unless the struggles of the character to fit into a world not built for them is part of the concept, of course.
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>>75983075
Increase the HT penalty if the target wasn't expecting sand in their face
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>>75983724
>I see no reason one couldn't have ground chilis in their pockets to throw in the eyes of someone else.
Because you run the risk of it staining your hands. Then, if your cut or rub your eye it affects you!
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>>75983724
>I see no reason one couldn't have ground chilis in their pockets to throw in the eyes of someone else.
I recall Kromm mentioning one chef-mage character in one of his games that carries his spices in a tube with a cork on both ends that he would sometimes use as improvised blowpipes.
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>>75980862
In theory, yes. In practise, skill default penalties are usually too high and, for weapons, don't spread far enough. There is no default between swords and axes, for example, and the penalty for changing to a slightly longer blade is severe.
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>>75983075
It's a long-shot desperation move, not meant to be something that works reliably, and the effect is powerful. Even one second of blindness is very likely to get you killed in a knife fight.
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>>75984207
It's uncommon but not unheard of. Chiron from Fate series works like that.
I suppose in a fantastic enough world it would be just a variant of lycanthropes.
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Anyone from here ever played with Eggplant?
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>>75983075
DF is a game about "heroes" wrecking minions by the wagonload until a named monster steps up to bat. I'd just extend the rules for minions and cannon fodder so they auto-fail HT rolls. An important or cool adversary might be able to resist, but the vast majority of foes you can try this against will be blinded if you make the attack roll.
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>>75983075
Pocketsand can still be useful even if assuming the HT roll is passed. If done as a dual-weapon attack, the target will take -1 to their defense rolls, letting you follow up immediately with a punch or shove. Even if they defend or pass the HT roll, or hell, even if you fail to hit in the first place, that penalty to their defense can be useful.
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>>75984207
And maybe their alternate form could put a strain on them or have a time limit, so there's a reason to change back into their natural centaur form.
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>>75986901
It does support more realistic, gritty play though.
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>>75991407
If you want pocket sand to be an effective maneuver rather than a frantic desperation move, it because you think it's cool. There's nothing wrong with that, but I don't know if you can square that desire for Rule of Cool with adherence to gritty realism.
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>>75985976
I've always found this to be true. The default between fighting with two hands on a sword and one hand is -4. That's a massive penalty in GURPS because you've put a second hand on your bastard sword.

My thoughts on it is that the worst default between close combat weapons should be -4, for things like going from a pike to a shortsword. The weapons are totally unalike, but the basic foundation of timing, footwork and combat experience remains transferable and useful in much the same way getting good at Go helps your Chess game.

For related or the same weapon, the default should be -1. Let's assume at some point in learning to use a sword or axe you dared to put a second hand on it.
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GURPS says it aims to be 90% as good as a dedicated system for any given campaign, but is there any style of campaign you think GURPS is 100% good for?
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>>75993120
low fantasy TL3
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>>75993048
Two-handing a one-handed weapon doesn't switch the skill from (for example) Axe/Mace to Two-Handed Axe/Mace.

Defensive Grip, Martial Arts p109-111: If using a one-handed weapon, Defensive Grip involves placing a second hand on the weapon. This hand must be empty. The extra hand makes it awkward to use normal one-handed strikes but adds power: -2 to attack rolls, +1 to damage.

Using an actual two-handed weapon is fundamentally different than using a one-handed weapon. Not just because the weapon itself is different (as they are designed to be used with two hands), but because the way you have to hold yourself and move is different too.
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>>75993120
>GURPS says it aims to be 90% as good as a dedicated system for any given campaign
Does it? Where? Is this 90% as good as a theoretical ideal system, or 90% as good as the actual systems which people actually play?
Because I think GURPS is at least 100% as good as the actual systems people actually play in a whole lot of genres. Technothriller, espionage, sword & sorcery, war stories, steampunk, post-apocalyptic, urban fantasy, gothic horror, cosmic horror, psychological horror, murder mysteries... I think it's easier to list the genres where there is a game which is better than GURPS. Even in those cases, the better game is very often another generic system (most frequently, Savage Worlds or FATE) or only manages to be better thanks to having a bunch of material ready to go (I think Call of Cthulhu would work better in GURPS, but the difference isn't enough to make it worth converting a load of stuff when my group already knows CoC/BRP).
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>>75993503
>>GURPS says it aims to be 90% as good as a dedicated system for any given campaign
>Does it? Where?
How to Be a GURPS GM p. 9
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>>75993297
>Using an actual two-handed weapon is fundamentally different than using a one-handed weapon. Not just because the weapon itself is different (as they are designed to be used with two hands), but because the way you have to hold yourself and move is different too.
https://youtu.be/nyAc5HbUuqw?t=3406
This video made me think that actually, there really could be a big difference between one and two handed sword use. When held in one hand, the point 'hovers' in space, staying on target for thrusts. When a second hand is added, the tip of the sword turns in a completely different way, which I think might make it more suited to cutting. I'm kind of dubious about how it applies to axes though. In my LARP and woodcutting experience, things with their weight on the end handle about the same regardless of how many hands are involved. The main difference is learning to slip your second hand up and down the haft.
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I'm too lazy to read the entire discussion but I get it's about making pocket sand and other dirty tricks more effective?
If so there's the Dirty Fighting perk that improves the success roll. You could convince the GM to let you buy it as leveled perk.
For a more cinematic approach, you could build it as a power, say Affliction (HT; Stun; Trigger: Sand)
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>>75993120
An issue is that concepts like 'style' and 'genre' are tricky in RPGs.
Is GURPS as good as 10 Candles for serious games of tragic horror? Sure, I think it is.
Is GURPS as good as 10 Candles for a minimal-prep, player-driven, time-constrained one-shot? No, not even fucking close. GURPS is terrible for that.
So does GURPS do 10 Candles' genre as well as 10 Candles or not? It both does and doesn't, depending on your perspective.

That said, some game styles in which I think there is no real competition for GURPS:
Historical realism. This is pretty easy, because as far as I know there are zero other systems which explicitly support straight historical realism. The closest are things like Call of Cthulhu and even then GURPS does 'academics investigating Lovecraft monsters in the 1920's' nearly as well as CoC and does better if you vary from that at all.
Classic sword & sorcery. There are some good systems in this genre, but I think GURPS does really well with hyper-competent heroes facing uncanny villains, melodramatic political intrigue, mass combat, and other tropes of the genre. Note that later sword-and-sorcery gets sillier and weirder and would probably suit a more narrative focussed system.
Authentic pulp fiction. Actual pulp stories tended to take themselves more seriously than the modern perception would imply. Savage Worlds is great for Indiana Jones, but it doesn't really work for Doc Savage. The only real issue I have with using GURPS for this is that pulp fiction protagonists tended not to have much in the way of 'disadvantages' in GURPS terms (also a slight athing with S&S, although less so).
Mysteries. Despite police procedurals, detective dramas and murder mysteries being incredibly popular, few other game bother to address them. These are mostly a sub-genre of historical realism, unless set in the modern day.
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>>75993503
>90% as good as a theoretical ideal system, or 90% as good as the actual systems
90% as good if the hypothetical specialised system is at least as well written, playtested and edited as GURPS;
A hypothetical ideal that for example White Wolf have never achieved.
These days I find myself with very little patience for games that are not one of:
1)GURPS
2)Extremely self-aware about what they are AND meaningful mechanics - e.g. D&D4, WFRP2;
3)Extremely light - e.g. Heroquest
4)Gimmick that makes it unique or occasionally fun - MAID, Blades in the Dark
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Is there anything out there for a teleport enhancement that leaves an "after image" from where you teleported from?

I'm theorycrafting a spell technique for Teleport where you leave an after image to trick opponents that's a QC of Teleport skill vs Vision
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>>75994747
Maybe use Linked and link it with something to make the double? Easiest would be the Illusion advantage from Powers but there's other ways too
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>>75994164
Just make it a skill, Throwing (Powder) DX/Easy.
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>>75995304
Pocket sand, as a move to blind an opponent, is not just hitting with sand. In GURPS, it's a Dirty Trick (B405) and is based on IQ.
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Haven't really looked into GURPS but since there's not a single system that emulates the genre, not even imperfectly, how would I go about making a Xianxia implementation in it?

The important features being a cultivation system of advancement (meditation/insights to grow a stronger superhuman body & Qi, some martial arts & some spells that might have weak-to-strong advancement of their own, special powers that may or may not be limited in scope) and a strong delineation between power levels that might vary between the advancement stage (i.e. say someone who is in the first stage of cultivation might be able to beat out a second stage but the third stage might represent a huge power gap that is near insurmountable).

If there's a solid alchemy/crafting system that I could reskin that'd be a plus.
Might even use ideas from Ars Magica with seasonal play if it comes down to it.
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>>75995355
No, there's rules for it in martial arts. It uses Dex.
See >>75983075
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>>75995536
GURPS can do long-term gameplay, personal development and training as a story element, cinematic martial arts, and Chinese style magic powers easily enough. The main issue is that balance and scaling can get pretty bad at very high power levels. For example, absurd feats of strength require way more points than some superhuman powers which will probably be way more useful, like moving beyond three dimensional space.
Breaking power into discrete levels is an issue. Besides just having each level equate to a certain level of character points, you can have access to certain abilities walled-off behind prerequisite advantages and there is a way to 'tier' powers so that some abilities 'trump' others, but ultimately GURPS is a system where sufficiently good 'low-level' stuff can often beat incompetent 'high-level' opponents. For example, one character might have Weapon Master, and know Blind Fighting, Power Blow and many other cinematic skills, but only know them and their weapon skills at around 15 or so. Some 'mundane' opponent with no cinematic bullshit but a weapon skill in the mid twenties is going to fucking murder him.
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>>75995536
I've looked into running a xianxia/cultivation game with GURPS too. My approach centered around using Quintessence (QN) from the Pyramid article "The Fifth Attribute": qi attacks used Natural Weapons tied to QN rather than free-standing Innate Attacks, QN served as the basis for Stun Points (Power-Ups 9: Alternative Attributes), most saves used the average of QN and the regular attribute, Afflictions were all quick contests using QN, etc. Tying everything to QN let it be a decent marker for overall cultivation level, even if it would condemn my game into having more or less one god stat and a bunch of less useful ones.

As for dividing power into specific tiers, the closest I got was 1) normies without Trained By a Master, whose QN was mostly irrelevant, 2) artists with TBaM and 20 QN or less, who could use it for special attacks but were still ultimately mortal, and 3) artists with TBaM with 21+ QN, who bought further levels of QN with Super-Effort for superhero-tier feats. All "tiers" after the third were more down to how many points you had invested in qi traits, and it more or less followed the general GURPS power level scaling. I guess you could subdivide Tier 2 based on QN, maybe every 4 levels being treated as its own level; that way, each step up in level correlates with +1d swing damage for QN-based attacks and (roughly, if you squint hard enough) one standard deviation on a 3d6 roll.

>>75996507
On that last note, you could tie skill or attribute caps to cultivation; you simply cannot achieve Broadsword-26 without experiencing some form of enlightenment on the nature of blades and combat. It'd be an artificial cap, but it could work. If you didn't want people fast tracking QN in the above rules, you could also apply the reverse, where no attribute could be, say, less then 6 levels below QN, requiring a more even advancement and a well-rounded character to reach enlightenment.

Or just use Unusual Background.
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How would you stat out a synthetic from Alien? After perusing the xenopedia, all that comes to mind are the following:

Advantages: Doesn't Breathe, Doesn't Sleep, Doesn't Eat, High Pain Threshold.
Disadvantages: Unhealing (Total), Vulnerability (Electricity).

Am I missing anything?
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>>75993297
Defensive Grip is the only exception. Otherwise any time you put a second hand on your weapon it changes skill. EX: Throwing Axe, Longsword, Bastard Sword, Axe, Katana, ect.

> Not just because the weapon itself is different (as they are designed to be used with two hands)

Most of the Two Handed Axe/Mace list is duplicated from the One Handed list. There are differences between two and one handed weapon use, but -1 pretty well covers that and frankly you could eliminate the distinction totally and cover people unused to putting two hands on a weapon with Famialrity penalties, just leavening Large Swords and Axe/Mace as skills with the two handed/one handed distinction deleted.
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Just throwing some ideas around.
At first I had the idea of making some sort of "Blue Blood" power, chi-like ability that grants supenatural powers to a person but requires a lot of investment resulting in being effectively limited to nobles (lot of exercising, personal mage-physician frequently checking/tuning the body etc). Then it came to my mind that Pyramid #3/102 had a very similar power called "Trained", so I decided to use it as is. It's a +-0% modifier that seems to only make you lose time, but it makes a good excuse for picking munchkinny exotic/cinematic advantages.
Regarding the Trained modifier itself, it might be flavorful to add another Maintenance in there requiring Esoteric Medicine. I've considered adding Pact (Chivalry) but it felt too noble bright (I like noble bright, but it's not the flavor I'm going for now). Magical was another possibility, but I wanted to distinguish the character from magically buffed ones so I dropped it.

Keeping the "Knights are Fantasy Super Soldiers" thematics, I've also used the Orion Homo Superior template as a base, the end result is not much different from an ordinary martial character, but I consider it similar to a secret ingredient.

I've also tried out the status-replacing rank from Social Engineering. I found the pricing weird, as I'll explain later, but it's quite powerful. I did not completely understand the rules yet, but I believe it allows me to, for example, make assistance rolls at 18 (basic 10, plus 4 from Large Resources and another 4 from Total Control) to requisition 50% of the starting wealth, or 10 for 500%!
About the pricing, if I were not using Rank that replaces Status, I could get the same benefit for 5 points less:
>Wealthy [20] + Status-Rank 4 [35] = 55
vs
>Wealthy [20] + Rank 4 [20] + Status 2 [10] = 50
>>
>>75997702
I would apply the machine meta-trait from basic, which notably includes Immunity to Metabolic Hazards.
>>
>>75996507
>For example, one character might have Weapon Master, and know Blind Fighting, Power Blow and many other cinematic skills, but only know them and their weapon skills at around 15 or so. Some 'mundane' opponent with no cinematic bullshit but a weapon skill in the mid twenties is going to fucking murder him.

This vaguely reminds me of some mediocre Wuxia/Xianxia webcomic I read, that had a really neat point. Cultivation was a thing in-setting, but with a very low and very hard"Cap" to it, to the point where a flying sword technique was considered beyond even the greatest of masters, but the plot revolved around a method being found to break that cap, and achieve higher levels of cultivation.

The thing I found interesting though, was one of the most standout characters, was someone who had not even managed to break the cap yet due to having just stumbled into the Xianxia "level" of the world, but was still insanely powerful because while he didn't have the super strong Chi to pour into making the biggest and baddest Xianxia techniques, he had decades of actual combat experience and honing of his martial arts. It didn't matter how powerful the "Raging Water Dragon Technique" or whatever is, if they can't land it.
>>
Does anyone know how rapid fire works if you shoot into close combat/through an ally? If you hit with 3 of 10 shots do you roll for the other 7 to hit bystanders, and if so do you resolve each of the 7 shots separately or keep using the rapid fire rule until all 10 shots are accounted for (or there are no more targets)?
>>
How does sneaking work in GURPS? What do I have to roll to sneak up behind someone? I'm assuming Stealth against Hearing, but are there any special situational modifiers I need to know about?
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>>75998546
>status-replacing rank
Page number? I can't find the rules you're referencing; all I've found is pricing Status using the same metric as Rank, and the effects of Status.
>>
File: Stealth2.pdf (28 KB, PDF)
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>>76002388
Existing stealth rules in GURPS are a bit of a mess. The rules handle it in a very abstract fashion, except when they feel like handling it in a detailed, simulationist way. Pic related is my crack at a comprehensive Stealth rewrite, though it may be too crunchy.
>>
File: Stealth MOS.pdf (66 KB, PDF)
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>>76002388
>>76003326
And here's a more abstract rewrite that's popular on the forums (and for good reason IMO).
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>>76003326
>>76003333 (checked)
great, thanks!
>>
I am currently working on a bard-song like aura using Affliction. I want the user to have an aura of light during duration of the effect. Would this be considered a Nuisance Effect since it cannot be turned off and the light it gives off will likely only be enough to dimly light a radius of 1 meter around the user?
>>
>>76003610
if I were your GM I'd just make it a 0-point feature tbqh
>>
>>76003626
Yeah that works. I can see it being good, but also it is somewhat of a nuisance since it isn't optional. Honestly making this buff affliction I feel a bit out of my depth. Maybe just getting tired, but if anyone can help;

Trying to make a couple buffing auras that requires a single concentrate action and 1fp to be activated for 1 minute in an 8 yard radius. Using +200% malediction to avoid negative pileup from range. Emanation is what I am trying to use as I don't want it to be able to be placed anywhere except on the user.

1 buff aura I would like to have give allies ablative forcefield DR. Not much, something like 2-3 points of it. This is DF so trying to keep numbers lower.
1 buff aura for giving allies (some form of courage?) I was trying to give a temporary bonus to Will but I can't find where to buff stats in Basic, only afflicting stats.
1 buff aura for giving allies like +3 crushing damage on their attacks. I don't want to buff ST because it is honestly a pain to recalc ST and just saying "hey flat damage to everything you throw out that does damage" is way easier to play with.

1 negative aura of fear. I think I can probably manage this one
1 negative aura of obscuring fog. This one also doesn't seem bad at all since I can just use obscure as it is written and i don't need an affliction or anything.
1 negative aura of "slow". I don't want to bind targets or cripple them, I literally just want to reduce their movement speed to like 1 or 2 a round.

Also by default afflictions last for a minute, which is fine for buffs but I don't want my monsters getting shafted too hard. 10 second duration is probably more than ample time for players to do what they need.

I am sure all of this is easy to write up, I feel like my brain is just melting atm and could use the hand.
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>>76003781
>Using +200% malediction to avoid negative pileup from range.
This isn't necessary per Power-Ups 4. Malediction 1, +100% should suffice.
>>
>>76003819
Ah I didn't have Power-Ups 4. I am reading it now and am a bit confused as to why their initial example has melee reach C is listed though.

So does a malediction cast through an area effect/aura not degrade -1 per yard?
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>>76003879
Emanation stays wherever you cast it, if you have Persistent. Aura + Area Effect + Melee Attack, Reach C travels with you as a proper aura. Malediction does not degrade that way with auras, it seems.
>>
>>76003879
>>76003907
To clarify, Auras always "start" as Reach C melee attacks. So it's Reach C->Aura->Aura with AoE
>>
File: krommaura.jpg (163 KB, 1839x288)
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While we're on the topic of auras, here's an interesting snippet.
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>>76003907
So based on what I am reading an ablative DR aura would be;

Area of Effect +150% for 8 yards
Aura +80%
Malediction 1, 100%
Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%
Requires (HT/IQ/DX) Roll -5%
Selective Area +20%
+60% for +3 Ablative (-80%) Force Field (+20%) DR (2pts a level)
Costs 1 FP, -5%
(Magic, Divine, Psi) power source -10%
+0% for Always causes light effect in 1 yard radius


(What does takes extra time do here? Why is that here? referring to page 4 of Power Ups 4)

So I have a final result of this aura costing 46 points? Is that correct? Their aura in the book seems to be significantly cheaper despite minor differences.
>>
>>76004015
>Requires (HT/IQ/DX) Roll -5%
That's -10%. HT/IQ/DX are not Will.
>What does takes extra time do here?
It's there just so that it requires an action to activate. You can just use Costs 1 FP to accomplish the same thing without taking Takes Extra Time.
>>
>>76004051
Ah my mistake, I meant to type -10% and must have mistyped.

The aura they have listed says it consumes 1 FP, but FP cost is not listed in the writeup. Takes Extra Time also appears to be worth twice what 1FP cost is too, I am just uncertain if it is a true substitute or not.
>>
>>76004082
>The aura they have listed says it consumes 1 FP, but FP cost is not listed in the writeup.
It's a feature of Requires X Roll. There's no activation cost, but there's a maintenance cost.
>>
>>76004088

So readjusting this it looks like;

>Area of Effect +150% for 8 yards
>Aura +80%
>Malediction 1, 100%
>Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%
>Requires (HT/IQ/DX) Roll -10%
>Selective Area +20%
>Takes Extra Time, -10%
>1/10th duration, Only after target leaves the area (Where is this limitation?)
>(Magic, Divine, Psi) power source -10%
>+0% for Always causes light effect in 1 yard radius
Then for the specific buff
>+60% for +3 Ablative (-80%) Force Field (+20%) DR (2pts a level)

I saw someone in an old forum thread mention terminal condition; caster's demise for -10% and a nuisance effect that let's enemies know the buff is coming from the caster for -5%. Is this correct?
>>
>>76004155
>I saw someone in an old forum thread mention terminal condition; caster's demise for -10% and a nuisance effect that let's enemies know the buff is coming from the caster for -5%. Is this correct?
I'd lower terminal condition to -5%, because the effect's duration is quite short when the subjects are outside the area of effect (the aura stops when the caster is KO'd or killed). Or even remove it altogether. Consult with your GM. As for the visibility, there's the Visible, -10% limitation that does that.
>>
>>76004190
In this case I am the GM, just trying to figure out how aura are meant to be set up. I think just Visible is plenty good for what I want. I believe the following should be correct as of now;

>Area of Effect +150% for 8 yards
>Aura +80%
>Malediction 1, +100%
>Selective Area +20%
>Melee Attack, Reach C, -30%
>Requires (HT/IQ/DX) Roll -10%
>Takes Extra Time, -10%
>1/10th duration, Only after target leaves the area, -20%
>(Magic, Divine, Psi) power source -10%
>Visible, -10%
>+0% for Always causes light effect in 1 yard radius
Then for the specific buff
>+60% for +3 Ablative (-80%) Force Field (+20%) DR (2pts a level)

If my math is correct this should come to 320% modifier or 42 points?
>>
>>76004251
>If my math is correct this should come to 320% modifier or 42 points?
Yes, correct. Also, you were asking where Reduced Duration is from - it's from Power-Ups 8: Limitations.
You should also add a power modifier to the advantage granted by the aura (DR, in this case). It's not double-dipping.
>>
>>76004269
>You should also add a power modifier to the advantage granted by the aura (DR, in this case). It's not double-dipping.
Nevermind I understand what you mean. I could slap -10% for Magic or Psi onto the DR. This wouldn't change it's value though would it since it still rounds up to 2 points a level?
>>
>>76004310
>I could slap -10% for Magic or Psi onto the DR. This wouldn't change it's value though would it since it still rounds up to 2 points a level?
Enhancements and limitations are applied after the advantage's cost was multiplied for the number of levels. So, DR 3 (Ablative, -80%; Force Field, +20%; Magical, -10%) will be 4.5 -> 5 points. Thus, the aura is going to be 1 point cheaper after all.
>>
>>76003209
B29-30:
>Alternatively, one form of Rank might replace Status; for instance, Religious Rank in a theocracy. In societies like this, Status does not exist. Each level of Rank gives all its usual benefits plus the effect of an equivalent level of Status.
Social Engineering p.14-15:
>If an organization has total control, the Rank it grants replaces Status; each level of Rank has the same effects as a level of Status.
>Rank that replaces Status [10/level] adds total control and grants large rather than typical resources.
Pulling Rank seems to further detail it, but it was too much crunch for my purpose.
>>
>>75997702
Very good DX, Enhanced Time Sense, Sense of Duty (Humans). I don't think they have total unhealing. Bishop nicked his finger early on in Aliens and later seems fine, so either they can heal small wounds or he used a repair kit at some point.
>>
>>76001280
I believe you take all the shots that miss and treat them as a rapid fire attack against the next viable target.
>>
why is GURPS so complicated :c
>>
File: Mearls.png (201 KB, 680x833)
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>>76005715
Gatekeeping. Keeps out the smoothbrains.
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>>76006084
>You're all fired from D&D

Thank fuck, what a shitass game. I may need 5 hours to make a complex array powerset in GURPS but I'll take that over the alternative any day.
>>
>>76006215
Amen.
>>
How would you stat up the Crysis (1) nanosuit?
I kind of know how to do the Speed, Strength, Invisibility... modes, with an Energy Reserve and Costs Energy. But what about Armor? It doesn't just give you X DR, it drains energy proportional to the amount of damage it soaks, so you can tank a full burst of rifle shots, many pistol hits, or basically unlimited punches.
>>
>>75945053
NAYRT but I don't get what you're talking about. Am I supposed to log in with those credentials to be able to see the folder?
>>
File: DF - Paladin 1.pdf (32 KB, PDF)
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>>75998546
Similar character, but using fantasy cybershell instead.
Created because this picture is awesome: https://i.imgur.com/fZXzKZ7.jpg
>>
>>76004742
Finally found it; it was the modifiers to the assistance rolls I was most curious about (if anyone else is curious, it's Variant Rank and Its Benefits, p 52 of Social Engineering).

As far as I can tell, you're correct and Rank/Status 4 does let you roll against an 18 for up to 500% of the campaigns starting wealth. The effect seems extreme, but I suppose it makes sense; Rank 4 in a Large Resources, Total Control organization is the equivalent of, say, a bishop in a totalitarian theocracy. That's a LOT of social power right there, even if we hide it behind status as rank. In your example, it would let the nobleman meet almost any legitimate need automatically, which seems correct; if he needs to raise funds for a project that's in the people's interest, he'll probably get it. What makes even more sense is that he has enough social influence to demand money for illegitimate needs and usually come off scot free; this feels appropriate for your typical wealthy nobleman that can make all sorts of incredible demands of his people for petty reasons. On the flip side, the consequences for a critical failure is probably an armed mob since there's no structured organization to discipline you after an infraction.
>>
>>76007364
You could do it with DR (Costs Fatigue, 1 second, -10%/level; Reflexive, +40%) bought at multiple levels, say DR 5, 15, and 45, with lower levels costing less FP and bought as alternative abilities. Reflexive means they'll turn on automatically when you're hit, and they can turn on the appropriate level for the incoming damage.

For example, you end up buying DR 45 (Costs Fatigue 4, -40%; Reflexive, +40%) [225], DR 15 (Costs Fatigue 1, -10%; Reflexive, +40%; Alternative Ability, x1/5) [20], and DR 5 (Reflexive, +40%; Alternative Ability, x1/5) [7]. You get punched for 4 cr damage, so DR 5 activates; next round, you take two pistol rounds to the gut, each dealing ~11 damage, so you lose 1 FP and gain DR 15 for that round. A few rounds later, someone catches you in a burst of 7d rifle fire, which drains 4 FP from your reserves but gives you DR 45, which is more than enough to handle the rifle.

It's expensive, but DR bought with points is always expensive. No way around that with clever number games; only using houserules helps.
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>>76008156
I suspect that's an optimistic interpretation. The RAW says:
>Large Resources: 10x cash; substantial aid as from an organization with 100,000x starting wealth in assets; +4 to assistance rolls for normal cash amounts or substantial aid.
>Total Control: Substantial aid as from an organization with basically incalculable net worth; +4 to assistance rolls for normal cash amounts or substantial aid.
Both +4 bonus to assistance rolls mentions "normal cash amount" so I think it only applies to the value shown on the table i.e. 50%. Large Resources would allow you to make unmodified AR for 500%, but Total Control doesn't affect it.

>>76007364
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.php?p=1708993&postcount=22
>>
>>76010141
Wow, yeah I completely missed the "normal." Good catch Anon.
>>
>>76006215
>alternative
That's good because D&D doesn't have one.
>>
Now that my knightly characters are out of the way, I went back to Karilan and made a Goliath character. Because I'm a special snowflake, I made him a wizard instead of fighter.
I've also tweaked their racial template. Instead of Resistant to Altitude Sickness, I gave them Low-Pressure-Tolerant Lungs, which allows him to ignore altitude sickness up to Thin atmosphere. Then I gave him Acute Vision to offset the penalty to vision rolls in high altitude, Temperature Resistane to improve their resistance to cold from high altitude and light clothing, and Sure-Footed (Uneven) to show they're used to moutainous terrain. I've also gave them +1 to Basic Move, akin to Gigantism.
I gave him Good Grip (from Template Toolkit 2) as personal advantage, but I believe it would also fit as racial one. It gives bonus to Climbing, an essential skill for their homeland that's negatively affected by their racial penalty to DX. It also gives bonus to grappling, which I believe suits their "hulking strongmen" schtick.

>>76010339
I did so at first as well. I hoped Total Control would give bonus to Large Resource's 10x monetary AR, but given ARs can be made (somewhat) frequently I thought it would be too powerful.
>>
>>76007397
Yes
>>
Which template should the next DF Denizens cover? Give the Thief or Martial Artist some much-need love? Break the mold and focus on a casting template? See Innkeeper expanded to all sorts of fantasy-professions-turned-dungeon-crawlers?
>>
>>76005715
It's not.
It just makes it more obvious when someone has not read anything.
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>>76016072
I think they should cover the core classes before doing shit like the innkeeper. Clerics already got a book. Ideally, the focus should be on bringing weak classes up to par, so martial artists and thieves seem like top priority. Both would really benefit from being split into more specialist roles.
Martial Artists could be some kind of judo master, pugilists (either boxing or karate as main), zen archers, weapon masters, or chi-power focussed (possibly pulling in some stuff from CEP).
Thieves are more difficult to split; you don't want to split combat thieves into their own thing for fear of having characters who can't contribute in a fight and others who are just slightly sneaky swashbucklers. I guess you could have a recon guy who focuses on stealth and traps (like a scout without the bow and outdoors stuff) and a trap and lock expert who doesn't do much stealth. Maybe some kind of magic thief archetype too? IIRC rogues were casters in Tunnels and Trolls and some other old-school games. I'd suggest some kind of cinematic martial arts stuff with lizard climb and invisibility art, but that's basically just a ninja and intruding on the martial artist who is already short of special features.
Otherwise, scouts could do with options which aren't just bows. Holy warriors could benefit from being distinguished from clerics, but most of the archetypes I can think of are covered by slayers. Knights don't have any obvious options to really push into, except maybe more and less leadership focus.
As for casters, I think bards could do with a boost and have some fairly obvious ways to be split up (bard-song, enthralment skills, magic, mundane) and expanded (more bard songs, new spells, expanded enthralment). Druids are weak compared to other casters due to the issues with nature's strength. Having some way to bypass that by drawing from a different source, some equivalent to mana enhancer, or not being so power-reliant seem like obvious fixes.
>>
>>76016905
Clerics essentially got two books, DF7 and Divine Favors.
>>
*screaming externally*
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>>76017019
Divine Favor is so different from the regular Cleric rules, though. Saying it's a Cleric book is like saying Incantation Magic or the Sorcery article are Wizard books.
>>
>>76017547
uh oh
stinky
>>
>>76017547
Well, that's a rip. While I have all of the important (in my opinion) stuff, I've never bothered to download the entire collection.
>>
>>76017547
Only a matter of time after people started telling everyone to log in instead of creating a new archive.
Hopefully somebody has everything backed up, some of the old books are impossible to find by normal means.
>>
>>76011126
I really like your adjustments to the racial templates, I'll use them too. And the character looks good too.
>>
>>76018228
I have the entire 4th edition collection, as of about March of last year.
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>>76018370
So far, so good. Able to upload it anywhere?
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>>76018448
Not sure, I don't much know the good sites for that kind of thing, especially that big of a folder. I'm happy for suggestions though.
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>>76018472
Mega would be fine probably, at least as a temporary measure. The guy who uploaded the stuff in the first place most likely has the rest backed up, but most people play 4th anyway.
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>>76018370
So it's missing a lot of good stuff. Great start.
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>>76018499
Actually, I don't have the complete 3rd edition catalogue. It was added piecemeal by anons.
4th edition is basically all on LibGen. 3rd edition much less so.
I'll try and find the logon details for the email and see if there is a way to get the account back up.
>>
>>76018679
Looks like emailure.net went bust, so no way to get the email :c
>>
New thread.
>>76019264



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