Big Turtle edition
These are my personal favourites: Robert E HowardJ R R TolkienH P LovecraftTerry Pratchett (as implied by the OP pic)George R R Martin
>>73458793Let us not forget the works of Jack Vance, nor those of William Hope Hodgson.
>>73458757reminder that there are cute baby space turtles in this setting, all with their own worlds on their backs drifting through space.
>>73458793Missing Ursula LeGuin but mentioning that hack Gurm. Tut, tut anon. Also Rider Haggard.
>>73459841>hack GurmAlright dude.
>>73458793If i'm allowed to add.>George Orwell>H G wells>Isaac Asimov>Jules Verne>Dante Alighieri>Virgil>S C Lewis>Andrzej Sapkowski (Before he wanted 60 milion kurwabucks from CDP Red)>Dmitry Glukhovsky>Fyodor Dostoyevsky>pic. related
>>73460072>>73458793My additions> Luís de Camões> T.H White
>>73459238Jack Vance was such a reveal for me, especially the first Dying Earth book.I will forever remember my first time reading those. The last book was probably the most forgettable.
>>73459238Vance yes, but hard pass on Hodgson.
>>73459841George is not a hack, he's a perfectly fine writer (in before "hurr, sunset groaning") this website just detests anything remotely enjoyed/popular, because that's just how fucking pretentious and stupid /tg/ and other boards are. I used to think you hated it because of how grounded and low magic the setting was ("what do you mean I'm a physically realistic martial in the GoT roleplaying game?" "what do you mean magic fucking sucks in this world?") or its insistence on historical-type realism ("what do you mean everyone has dysentery?" even though the ST never confirmed that). You all hate him because your contrarian brains still adore LotR for its refusal to become part of the leftist media movement (although wait until Amazon makes 4/5 of Numenor ethnic, not white). Fuck you for ruining any sorts of discussion from the man. Also, bonus cringe to those few sperg anons (they also worship Sanderson, one may even be "bump fag" or whatever) who hate him for pointing out magic systems aren't actually magic.
Guys, assuming I have 5k and a story my friends think would make a great comic book.Should I do it? Selling fantasy comics in the year of our lord sounds like a harrowing process and I'm basically a no-name.I ask here because I assume everyone here is at least a little interested in fantasy comics.
>>73460172Its really the lotr thing, they haven't recovered from his tax policy comment
There are some very good names in this thread but I will add one morePhilip K Dick
>>73460172>George is not a hackHe might not be a hack, but he's boring which is worse.
>>73460268>but he's boring which is worse.What's worse is assuming your taste matters for anything
>>73460199What's stopping you anon? Draw and paint a pilot issue on your own time and then shop it around to publishers. Or web publish and try to get noticed.
>>73460172I hate him because the fat fuck is going to die before he finishes book seven so why bother.
>>73460312What's stopping me is that I might be better off using that money on ads for my books rather than on an artist (I can't draw for shit)
If anyone tells you to read Starship Troopers - don’t. It is easily the worst book I have trudged through in a while. After about the first chapter it becomes nothing more than a series of of diatribes not unlike attending a series of ted talks one after another, all by men who watched band of brothers and have read a lot of books about the wars of the mid twentieth century, and are very eager to tell you how they would have done things.
>>73460172>although wait until Amazon makes 4/5 of Numenor ethnic, not white1. White is an (american) ethnicity retard, whites are as "ethnic" as asians, you just mean non-white2. Numenor was a gift of the Valar for all Edain, and many from the House of Bëor and Hador are considered dark of skin.
>>73460199Only the public can determine your success so the only chance of you succeeding is putting yourself out there and getting exposure. >>73460312This. >>73460339Some good art can make a big difference and a comic is basically not a comic without at least decent art.
>>73460215It's less "recovered from" and more that it's ultimate proof that he is in fact a hack. To state that LoTR operates on a "medieval philosophy", or that LOTR promotes an in universe setting where if the king is a good man morally, the realm prospers, are simply incorrect. Martin is supposedly a fan of Tolkien and read LoTR extensively, so either he can't communicate what he means clearly through writing, or he missed the core themes of a work he is a "fan" of. Neither are particularly good traits in an author, and yes, evidence of being a hack.
>>73460360Indians and Arabs are also Asian, but nobody calls them that
>>73460339Then take your script and turn it in to a novel, use that as your pitch. Or find a semi-desperate artist who can't write and go 50/50.
>>73460403Middle Earth is fucking retarded, grow up and get over it. The north of the continent is at least 1000~ years more architecturally/technologically advanced than the south, including Gondor. Orc demographics would work differently, and he's right about that.
>>73460403Everyone is wrong once in a while. The problem when reading something a celebrity said a long while ago is that we don't know how much they changed their mind - or would change their mind - when given the explanation of what they didn't get.Plenty of people read LotR and saw many great qualities in it while missing one or more core themes.I don't care about gurrm, I just think that's a poor kind of "evidence" to call someone a hack.
>>73460450>Middle Earth is fucking retarded, grow up and get over it. It is considerably more realistic than anything in ASOIF, in large part because it has actual unreliable narration, and not just "YOU CAN'T BELIEVE DA HISTORIES MAAAAN">. The north of the continent is at least 1000~ years more architecturally/technologically advanced than the south, including Gondor.The only place more "advanced" than the rest is the Shire itself, which is very deliberately anachronistic.None of this, by the way, defends Martin's incorrect statements about theme and plot progression, so I'm not sure why you'd bring it up except your asshurt that some people dare to like other authors.>Orc demographics would work differently, and he's right about that.What the hell are you even talking about? Orc demographics work different from what? Other intelligent species? They do already. Than how it's depicted? How are you going to support that?
>>73460360>1. White is an (american) ethnicity retard, whites are as "ethnic" as asians, you just mean non-whiteYou know what he meant when he said that, socially inept pig.>2. Numenor was a gift of the Valar for all Edain, and many from the House of Bëor and Hador are considered dark of skin.This kind of response reeks of "It's okay, guys, diversity happened".
>>73460487>The only place more "advanced" than the rest is the Shire itself, which is very deliberately anachronistic.How about you take one fucking look at the architecture of Bree, you historically ignorant nutcase. Stop being so fucking biased to the detriment of fucking fact, god.
>>73460360>are considered dark of skin.Lets not pretend that means anything else than "slightly darker shade, but still very much Caucasian".LotR should not need to adhere to modern American demographics and pretending Tolkien meat it to is flat out dishonest.
>>73458757David Eddings should be at the top of any reading list. I will fight anyone who says otherwiseSanderson is pretty good but he doesn’t get much respect here since people here are pretty desensitized to standard heroics (they prefer GRRMdark shitting in a river & rape of heroes) they also hate the idea of simple but deep magic mechanic explorations. They fixate on that instead of his worldbuilding, his mythology, his characters. He’s probably the closest to being a modern Tolkien, focusing on magic rather than linguistics.
>>73460487>It is considerably more realistic than anything in ASOIF
>>73460525>Sanderson is pretty good but he doesn’t get much respect here since people here are pretty desensitized to standard heroics (they prefer GRRMdark shitting in a river & rape of heroes) they also hate the idea of simple but deep magic mechanic explorations. They fixate on that instead of his worldbuilding, his mythology, his characters. He’s probably the closest to being a modern Tolkien, focusing on magic rather than linguistics.This has got to be one of the absolute grossest things I have read on this board, and that's saying something. Please throw yourself into the sea.
>>73460172People on here started to hate him when the TV show became popular. Because some people mentally never got past being the unpopular nerd in school.>>73460403It's proof all you pearl clutching retards haven't actually read the interview.He doesn't make a judgement of quality; he's pointing out the fundamental difference between how he and Tolkien approach storytelling.
>>73460505>How about you take one fucking look at the architecture of Bree,The fuck are you talking about? There aren't even detailed descriptions of the architecture of Bree. About all you get is that>There are about 100 stone houses.>There's a ditch with a hedge-row at the boundary of town>The Prancing Pony has three stories and a lot of windows.I'm not sure how you come to the determination of any sort about their architecture from that, but it's certainly a hell of a lot less impressive than what you see in Gondor.
>>73460487>What the hell are you even talking about? Orc demographics work different from what? Other intelligent species?So you didn't actually read his various commentary on the orcsYou're just some bitching fan boy
>>73460403Or people took a soundbite out of context and blew it up. If you look up the rest of that quote it's apparent that he's not criticizing LotR, he's praising it while talking about how his own work is very different in tone and motivation. He's not saying JRRT should have talked about tax policy, he's saying that ASoIaF does.
>>73458757The Warlord chronicles by Bernard Cornwell are really nice as well.
>>73460525Except Sanderson's idea of magic is really bad. It's far from simple and not really deep but clunky and mechanical. He doesn't make magic, he makes technology. Fictional technology. Making a magic system is also infinitely easier than making languages wholesale. He also actually had the credentials to justify said languages perfectly.
>>73460532Yes, it is. You have social structures that operate under the sorts of people who live by/under them and don't just suddenly change at the convenience of the plot. Distances and the impact of distance are much more emphasized. >>73460581>He doesn't make a judgement of quality; he's pointing out the fundamental difference between how he and Tolkien approach storytelling.Anon, stop being retarded. I never made any claim that GRRM was talking about a difference in quality. My actual claim is as follows>GRRM makes certain statements as to how the story of Lord of the Rings is structured as a work of literature>These statements are completely incorrect. They are very easily demonstrated as incorrect, which you can do by taking one look at king Theoden, or Frodo's PTSD coda, major parts of the text.>Ergo, he either doesn't understand the work and decided to comment on it anyway, or he can't write what he means.Absolutely none of this involves any claim of GRRM as to quality, which is why I never said that, and instead focused on how GRRM's misconceptions as to LoTR in the sense of positive statements.
>>73460629Is it better than his histzorical stuff?Because I read Last Kingdom and could hardly make it through thatwith all the Viking fellating and the author giving the finger to his parents for making him go to Sunday school.
>>73460628Learn to read. That is 100% completely fucking irrelevant to why I find issue with the statement. I laid it out again here in response to the other fucktard who instantly jumped to the wrong conclusion.>>73460641His complete and obvious misunderstanding LoTR is what I commented on, nothing else.
>>73460641>Yes, it is
>>73460641Hve YOU read LotR?Because the second Aragorn is made king, he finds a freshly bloomed Silver Tree that validates his kingship and signifies how the realm is going to prosper with a rightful regent back on the throne.
>>73460719And Aragorn is also hugely intelligent, a successful war leader, capable of literal superhuman feats, and oh yeah, had already been crowned and installed as King, was hugely popular and legitimized, before he finds the silver sapling.It doesn't in any way "validate" his kingship. It doesn't indicate that there will be prosperity. It gives hope to Aragorn in particular because of his connection, both personal and to his dynasty, with the elves.Furthermore, this "rule" is contradicted in several other places. I mentioned Theoden before. There's also the history of Gondor, where you have good men as kings like Earnur, who was a fuckup. You have disastrous reigns like Oropher leading his elves into battle with grossly insufficinet equipment and getting a bunch of them, himself included, killed.But it's a totally universal rule, as long as you ignore all the times it doesn't apply.
>>73460172Nice tantrum, he's still a hack.>The 'first men', who spoke the 'old tongue', lived on a western land called 'westeros', where we now speak the 'common tongue'>WOW SO ORIGINAL
>>73460793Haven't said anything about a universal rule, friend.Aragorn is clearly build up through the whole thing as the rightful king, as much for his heritage as for his personal virtue.The Realm flourishing with a rightful king on the throne is a common theme in English folklore; from Arthur back to Celtic legends. Of course Tolkien would use it for LotR.
>>73460919>Haven't said anything about a universal rule, friend.No, you're just defending GRRM who does.>Aragorn is clearly build up through the whole thing as the rightful king, as much for his heritage as for his personal virtue.Sure, and for his stand in by destiny as the guy who can and should fix all the things that Isildur screwed up. Isildur, I might add, was also a rightful king and a "good man". His reign turned out great.>The Realm flourishing with a rightful king on the throne is a common theme in English folklore; from Arthur back to Celtic legends. Of course Tolkien would use it for LotR.Which is of course why he deviates from it, not once, but numerous times in LoTR. That's how you use the theme, right?
No mention of litrpgs??? They are literally ttrpg novels.>Life in the North>Shadow sun survival>Underdog series by Alexey OsadchukPost more litrpgs.
>>73460976>Isildur, I might add, was also a rightful king and a "good man". His reign turned out greatIsildur was a great man all his life except for one instant, which he almost immediately regretted but didn't live to rectify.And there is more to being a rightful king in myth.>That's how you use the theme, right?Actually yes. You can use a theme in a story without making it a universal rule.Aragorn being the rightful king and signalling the begin of a new Golden Age for Gondor does not mean that any Realm in Arda must be prosperous as long as their king is legit.
>>73460172GRRM is a talented technical writer, but I don't think he ever knew where he wanted to take ASOIAF and he's lost quite a bit of the thread since expanding beyond his initially planned trilogy. Also misery porn gets dull after a while.
>>73460525I'm a big fan of Sanderson, but he's definitely not for everyone. His prose is unexciting, his characters are often one-note (getting better through the years though) and his attempts at witty dialogue are largely painful. He excels at worldbuilding, plotting and action, but if you want complex characters and engrossing dialogue he's not gonna be your cup of tea.
>>73461171His books are too slow for me. It took me forever to get through Elantris, and while I'm glad I did, it was still a slog.
>>73461284Well yes, it's his first and worst book (by his own admission).
>>73461284Elantris is definitely one of if not his roughest book, for my taste it was only carried by Hrathen and to a lesser extent Raoden (just tickles my "idealistic but competent hero" boner). Mistborn 2 was also a slog, but there's definitely a lot of improvement through the years. Each Stormlight book is 1000+ pages majoritarily consisting of navel-gazing flashbacks and political faffing, but I love the shit out of them.
I'm a big fan of Steve Erikson and Malazan in general.
>>73461284Elantris is indeed a slog, it was his first book though.Mostly I like his metaplot and connected universe stuff because while his writing isn't the most complex or nuanced I do respect anyone who can maintain their own internal continuity as well as he has up to now when most authors tend to flub stuff even within the confines of a single series
>>73461397I really need to get back to that.I do enjoy the books, I just need to take breaks every once in a while.
>>73461447I can understand that, some of the sections get really disorienting especially when you're swapping between characters. I haven't read much of the non Book of the Fallen stuff but it seems pretty cool. I've definitely stolen a few scenarios for my own games.
>>73461508>I've definitely stolen a few scenarios for my own games.Same.And I don't really mind things going all over the place, since I'm in it for the worldbuilding and the occasional cool thing like the Chain of Dogs, or the punitive crusade consisting of three dudes.But every once in a while I just want a coherent story, so I take breaks.
>>73460522Somalis are Caucasian
>>73461397Tried to read the first one twice and failed, might give it a third go with taking notes
>>73461913Gardens of the Moon is the worst written book imo, the second book (Deadhouse Gates) has a way better structure and pace. I do think it ends up having a pretty fun second half, and the siege of pale is great, but I don't blame people for having trouble getting into it.
>>73461976All the books have shit structure.There is great worldbuilding and some good set pieces, loosely connected by some random characters.Noone reads these books for structure.
>>73461999>All the books have shit structure.strong disagree, especially with regards to the fourth book.
>>73462008>the fourth book.Again, some great setpieces, like the final battle in the desert, but the thing is lousy with side plots that end up being pointless or completely unrelated until late books like Karsa's whole deal.
David Gemmell needs more love. I think that a lot of anons would appreciate that his books have a more complex morality than might appear at first glance and that his worlds have a morality system in them that is not overly preachy or judgemental. His characters are flawed, and the best of them admit it and try to overcome them and act in a positive manner although none of them ever really do because they are human beings. But it's the attempts that make the ones who do noble.
>>73458757>when a purposefully generic fantasy story is elevated by character writing
>>73461999not really. what people fail to is that malazan is really not character-centric. you should basically treat all of them as side characters in service of stories and world itself.
>>73460302I dunno, anon. I've read all his books. And while the story is above average, his prose is not what I expect from globally famous authors. I sorta agree with >>73460268 too. He reads sort of like Grisham.
>>73459238>William Hope HodgsonHe sadly died before really getting to create more impactful works. People are also fucking autistic about being unable to read The Night Land as originally written, though.
>>73462669Yes, but the story is still not well paced.It just keeps jumping from theater to thater with no real sense or logic.Now we got a refugee train, now it's about this retard ogre killing things, now it's about a dude crashing a city's economy. Now these two characters from two books ago have fallen in love off screen.It's all interesting, but it doesn't work as a story.
>>73462832I started reading Malazan the same time as Hajime no Ippo.I can only ever imagine Karsa as Takamura.
>>73458757Anyone here have love for Codex Alera?
I just got the Foundation trilogy and Prelude to Foundation from a relative. Should I go by publication order and start with the trilogy or chronological order and start with Prelude?
>>73462904I'm planning on reading it, it sounds pretty interesting.If the later Dresden Files books are any indication of Jim Butcher's writing ability, then it should be a good read
>>73462939If you are reading just The Foundation, then I recommend publication order.If you want the complete Asimov experience and are willing to read a whole fuckton of books, then go for the expanded chronological order (Which includes all his SF series:The Complete Robot (1982) and/or I, Robot (1950)Caves of Steel (1954)The Naked Sun (1957)The Robots of Dawn (1983)Robots and Empire (1985)The Currents of Space (1952)The Stars, Like Dust (1951)Pebble in the Sky (1950)Prelude to Foundation (1988)Note: Forward the Foundation (1993) was then unpublished, but would have followed Prelude.Foundation (1951)Foundation and Empire (1952)Second Foundation (1953)Foundation's Edge (1982)Foundation and Earth (1986)
>>73458793>>73459841>>73460072>>73460525>>73462568All of these mention some excellent authors. It can almost go without mention that William Gibson should be on this list, he writes very interesting characters.Richard Morgan's Kovacs series is good, but the pacing is rather slow.But what I want to bring to you all's attention are two relatively new series that I've really enjoyed.>Heroes Road by Chuck RogersA fantasy earth setting, it's a stereotypical Homeric journey style tale, but I've enjoyed the character banter, and I've found myself getting caught up in the action again & again.>Echos of the Untold Age series by JM GuillenThis is a fairly poetics heavy series, which is as it should be, the main character is a full fey. This series is part of his larger horror-fiction universe, but each series stands well enough alone.These series are both e-book only, and are fairly cheap. If you've got some free time, give them a try.
>>73462987I'm just reading what I've got on hand, but I appreciate the list.Sooner or later I'll have to continue reading the wheel of time series, so I may check more of these out in the near future.
>>73462943It’s fantastic, elemental bending Romans with Pokémon are badass. I only wish Metal was done better
>>73460525Sanderson's prose is tedious beyond belief, and I did force myself to go through the books because the setting was novel and interesting at first, but I had to quit eventually when the heroine was choosing a dress to infiltrate a party or whatever, most boring shit I've ever read.
>>73463383>Romans with PokémonI read the story behind this, but from reading the descriptions of the books I never figured where "pokemon" or "roman legion" fit.Guess it's something that you have to read to understand
>>73464692Its more Roman legionaries waging war with elemental spirits that they bind to their will. The Pokémon aspect is very thin. It’s just that occasionally an elemental manifests in a physical animalistic form. Sometimes the form is a shout out to a Pokémon, like one scene that has a big rock snake
>>73464446>Faggot anon doesn’t appreciate a shopping/outfit montage
>>73458757Dropping some short story collections I've recently read.Wizards: Magical Tales from the Masters of Modern Fantasy Some great stories in there: Ruby Incomparable, Manticore Spell and Barren's Dance are all freaking excellentGet it used if you don't want to give Orson Scott Card money.After the King: Stories In Honor of J.R.R. Tolkien:BBit more of a mixed bag, but some real gems in Troll Bridge, Fellowship of the Dragonand, Silver and Gold and The Naga.Fragile Things by Neil Gaiman:Mostly meh and a lot of stories already appeared in other places. There's a neat short story on the Marquis from Neverwhere and Feeders ands Eaters is well executed, but overall not worth the buy.
>>73462987>not including The End of Eternity0/10>Not including NemesisWhich is mentioned BY NAME in Forward the Foundation.I'd Put Nemesis maybe after Prelude. The End of Eternity should be 1st on the list.
>>73464692>I read the story behind this, It's one of the many bullshit stories Butcher tells and his fans repeat. It's genuinely amazing how stupid his fans are sometimes.
>>73464981I was waiting for you to show up.Go fuck yourself
>>73464862No mention of the difficulty of fitting a body in said garment, just emotions at wearing a pretty dress for the first time or something iirc, not very riveting. I just wanted her to get into the party and start kicking ass
>>73458757Armor by John Steakley is the single best sci-fi novel I’ve ever read
>>73465058Go back to bed, Butcher.
>>73460348Either retarded or a female, which is essentially the same thing.
>>73462904For anyone unfamiliar, Jim Butcher wrote it on a bet that he couldn't make a decent fantasy series fusing Rome and Pokemon together. And he did! There's plenty of fun scenes, some compelling characters (a few with grey morality) who you can empathise with and an inhuman apocalypse uniting enemies in a last ditch effort to save the world. There are certainly tropes many are tired of, but the execution is fine. The quality is similair to Dresden files, but I'd probably disagree with >>73462943 in that the Dresden files quality is quite consistent past the shaky start. I'd rate him 6.5/10, but if you enjoy his works you might as well read Codex Alera. I quite enjoyed Mother of Learning. I'd recommend it to anyone who likes industrial revolution level fantasy settings or a time-loop plot. And even more so to someone who enjoys worldbuilding, as there's a depth and attention to detail present that compels you to analyse the world of Erestu. The magic system has enough depth that you can see why society uses branch X instead of Y, or has yet to invent Z, why the political structure has formed in such a way, their religion has developed as so and more. Yet the world is explored so naturally that you barely realise there's such a depth to it. In some ways, it reminds me of Anathem but without the additional vocabulary that Stephenson introduces. In terms of insight, I'd say its not quite at the same level. Perhaps A Deepness in the Sky is a better comparison when it comes to world building, but there's so much more breadth to it that I'd argue its superior. Much of that is contained on the author's blog, especially in the comments where he shows just how much thought he's put into this. Which makes sense, give that the story was written to enhance the world building. Cont.
>>73465884In terms of pacing, prose and charecterisation, I'd certainly place it above Vinge's work. Whilst the characters are not as complex as T. H. White's, the author never straw mans other perspectives to make a point. Further, the cast displays enough variety of virtues and vices that you can respect one without loving them, hate another without mocking them etc. Thankfully, the author refrains from pushing his cast to the limit like Martin might. Which helps to keeps the pacing in check! The story is focused, with just enough diversions and dead ends that you don't feel things are rushed. Overall, I'd rate it at about 7/10 and recommend my fellow fa/tg/uys to check it out.
>>73465884>The quality is similair to Dresden filesSo it's shit.
>>73465904For books written for fourteen-year olds, they're okay.
>>73464446Sanderson's prose is pretty light weight dude. Borderline YA.
>>73465918>For books written for fourteen-year olds, they're okay.Children deserve better.
>>73465820Nah, I like starship troopers, but anon has a point about the band of brothers Ted Talks. Heinlein absolutely does do that.
>>73460348>If anyone tells you to read Starship Troopers - don’t>But if no one tells you to read it - do>just be a contrarian, really>it is the /tg/ way
>>73461356Does it get better? I'm like halfway through the first stormlight book and it seems that exactly fuckall has happened. They're still in the desert.Without spoilers, is this one of those series of books that only has things happen in like the second or third book, or do things eventually pick up?
>>73467531truth, this should be our fucking banner
>>73467623Shit is about to hit the fan for you bro stay with it.Also... it’s not a desert. No sand on Roshar.
>>73465063See, that's not a prose issue then. It's you disliking character development because you can't personally relate to it. I know the scene you're referencing, and it was a little dull, but it's just fleshing her out a bit.
>>73467623I'm curious about this too. I liked the mistborns but never got around to reading the other stuff. Tried those evil superhero books, found them to be disappointing. People generally like the storm light ones though? (assuming they're not just generally anti-sanderman)>>73467755A desert doesn't require sand. Just a lot of dry. It's just that, without water and root systems, there isn't much to prevent wind erosion, and lighter particulates tend to blow away while the sand and gravel settles.
>>73467848Except is humid not dry. It’s noted several times in the book. It’s hot & the Highstorms give plenty of water. It just scours the topsoil off of everything
I like hot garbage. In the grim darkness of the post nuclear apocalypse, there is only EDGE.
>>73465820Nope. literally just read it. The first chapter is gold. The boot camp bit is fineproblem is every single scene after is paragraph after paragraph of some dude explaining how their military or government works and it it’s so god damned perfect and it’s total shit. I have been to sermons that were less preachy. It’s every chapter, just fucking paragraphs of it. Every time little juanito talks to someone they’re telling him why the military is based, why democracy is bad - there are multiple literal lectures in the book. It completely frowns out the good and the great, like the shower scene with ace.And the ending is so bad it reads like parody. It’s somehow more comedic than the end to the movie >>73467531nah i’m not trying to be contrarian. I literally just read starship troopers this week expecting gold. I had recently read dune and been surprised that it was better than I expected too - I like the classics. He has some really neat ideas too, the capsules are cool for instance.
>>73458757How the actual heck did I read this far and not see Daniel Abraham? The guy literally turns RP for tabletop into an acclaimed series! Long Price Quartet - 4 awesome books that do amazing things with "magic"Dagger and Coin - another short series that's ok, seems like he wanted to write about the iron bank and did it pretty well. The Expanse - saw a friend's beta RPG and decided to write books in it. (With Ty Frank, pen name James Corey) easily the best space series since Vinge.Thanks anons for all the recommendations!
>>73468896is the expanse tv series better or worse than the books?
>>73462904It's not the highest literature ever, but it's a fun story with a cool world and characters. Really finds its footing from book three onwards. Also Sextus is a boss.>>73464692It's mostly a thing in the first couple of books where the POV is centered on countryside characters who manifest their furies often. From then on it's mainly just superpowers.>>73467623It's hard to say. All of the books are slow plotwise, because despite being Sanderson's Big Epic Fantasy Series, they're very much character-driven. A significant chunk of each book revolves around exploring one of the main cast's fucked-up past and psyche. That said, I would say that The Way of Kings is the one that takes the longest to get going, because after that the dominoes set up not only there but through the whole Cosmere start falling and the plot and myth arc starts to accelerate.
>>73458757Book of the New Sun
>>73467848Reckoners trilogy (capeshit YA) are very much YA, it's a significantly different read from Sanderson's Cosmere stuff. Personally, the Stormlight Archive is in my top 3 fantasy series ever. And as the other anon said, the plains are rocky but not dry, it's just that there's no soil or normal plant life because of the storms, but the inside of the chasms is pretty much a coral reef on land.
Glen Cook. The black company is classic. Actually has a few ttrpg supplements running around.>>73469438Good Choice.
>>73463383No idea what you're talking about, but if there's a Romanesque character who has powers over metal whos not called Metallius then i won't touch it.
>>73471940>try to depopulated a country with literal state-enforced homosexuality Doesn't that insinuate that /pol/ is right?
>>73467838You're probably right, it was years ago. But I liked her character just fine before that, that scene was the last straw I think. I'm reading other posts itt and it seems that my real issue might have been how excruciatingly slow the plot seemed to advance. Maybe I was too impatient, I did like the setting and most people itt also seem to have a positive opinion on Sanderson, I'll try giving it another chance in the future.
>>73471940What's this from?
>>73471940>>73472363The Forever War (1974)>damn SJWsHope you're just pulling my chain, nigga.
>>73460429In the UK you do
>>73471940I fucking love that book
>>73460525>avid Eddings should be at the top of any reading list. I will fight anyone who says otherwiseFight me then, because Eddings is terrible.
>>73460525The top of any /tg/ reading list should be Fritz Lieber. End of discussion.
>>73462818>>73459238I know we all are enamoured by the night land setting, but the book really isn't good. Aside from the very cool and interesting setting, it is just a little more than a super generic love story. I'd really much rather read a ficitonal Redoubt scientists research notes.Also I've found China Mieville to be really inspiring. He jumps from barely readable to brilliantly done, but I do really like his shortstories and the mystique he incorporates.Also, Frank Herberts dune, obviously.
>>73458757I've been reading The Flat-Earth Cycle, from Tanith Lee. Feel like a compilation of tales from old mythologies, it's pretty great and there's many ideas to steal for games and worldbuilding. >>73461397Great taste also.
>>73472888I love Lieber too but you know damn well it's not the end of discussion.
> Search thread> No Lem> No StrugatskyShame on you all. Their works are near the best SF I've ever read. Stands with the best of Hitch-hikers or Rendevous with Rama or what have you.Roadside picnic was one of the few alien encounters that seems believable in how humanity coped with it decades after the fact. Its damn hard to pull off the incomprehensible beings to which humanity are as grass trope. And yet it did. Even more so, the charecterisation was geniunely good. And what a rare sight that is in this sort of SF. To top it all off, there was virtually no fat in the novel. Its not even 200 pages. Go on anon. Read it! Anyway, does anyone else feel that Orion's SF Masterworks tend to live up to the title?
Anyone else read the Gormenghast series? I finally got through the first book and while it does a good job with atmosphere it feels like nothing happens. Am I just too much of a brainlet to appreciate it?
>>73458757ctrl+f>no ZelaznyWhat the fuck??
>>73474837There really is something wrong with this place if genuine retards like Hodgson and Butcher get mentions before Zelazny.
I honestly think that Zelazny wrote the most imaginative fantasy ever, plus, he wrote from 1st person perspective which is absolutely immersive (and preffered way of storytelling to me)We were robbed of him way too soon
Any non-fiction /tg/ literture? Guns, Germs and Steel really helped me up my Worldbuilding game, though I had to make some adjustments for it to fit a magical setting.
>>73475169Guns Germs and Steel is a fantasy book so that makes sense.
>>73475169Grain into Gold is an easy read for world/economy building in a fantasy setting. It might not be the most academically accurate source of information, but it's good enough for a GM.
>>73474824it doesn't get any better, it's like one of those bildungsromans where you spend three books wanting to smack the protagonist in the mouth for being an irritating pussy.Fairly common problem for the subgenre, a lot of authors seem to struggle with chardev, so the mc will be a woe-is-me deadweight for 90% of the series and then abruptly get his shit together when the author runs out of pages.It's one of the points in WoT's favour now that I think about it, the pov characters do a lot of bitching and moaning but that never prevents them from stepping up as the occasion requires and they do grow as individuals.And then sanderson fucked it all up. Why does every /lit/ thread on tg have someone recommending the fucker? He is not a good writer by any measure and the only fantasy writer i can think of who's been published as much but sucks more is terry goodkind.
>>73472422yeah I just wanted to trigger the retards ok here who would get mad >>73472793it’s incredible. definitely exceeded my expectations.
>>73475169I hope you’re trying to trigger me because GGS is complete fucking bullshit, only slightly better than genesis in explanation for the variation amongst mankind
Suck my dick Jared
>>73460587You know he was referring to the films, right, because he's a fuckwit?
>>73475938Since GGS is shit, what would you recommend?
>>73476502Read The Bell Curve
>>73474837The Chronicles of Amber is mehThat hindu posthuman planet story is mehSome of his short stories are great
>>73476580>That hindu posthuman planet story is mehIt is one of the high points of science fiction. It's not the easiest read, but it's a book that keeps rewarding you the more you dive into it, the mark of a true classic. It's also not posthuman.>The Chronicles of Amber is mehThe first five are great. I will agree on the later five though.
>>73476539Not sure if you're trolling or not, but the description of the book sounds pretty based.Though I'm not sure how it helps in worldbuilding
>>73475938Nah it's pretty good. He just goes too far and tries to fit things into his theory too specifically. The general theory he tries to get across is quite a useful idea.
>>73476681GGS is based off of assumptions that human development is entirely environmental instead of hereditary. All differences between humans are because of environmental factors. The Bell Curve will give you a better understanding of hereditarian explanations.
>>73476877Ok, but how does that help me build a coherent world?
>>73476934Traits are inherited through genetics, and they inform how societies differ along with environmental factors. Don't assume every difference is due to environment.
>>73476934Unless your setting has magic dirt of course, then GGS will make sense.
I remember liking Everworld a lot.
>>73467623>>73467848Stormlight eventually gets very good, yes. Understand though, I really wasn't having much fun with Stormlight at first - the first book is a lot of ' the adventures of depressing hero guy who gets everyone he loves killed'. It's very much a slog.Eventually though he gets slapped sensible and freed from slavery and starts being able to do more, and Dalinar - the kings cool uncle - realises that he's tired of being the only adult in the king's court and decides if people aren't going to listen to his sage advice he's going to make them listen to him by punching them really hard in the face.And without wishing to spoil too much, this is also at the point where Shallan, the girl who starts this novel wetter than the storms that blanket this fucking place, figures out her superpower. Which is basically 'lie so hard even I believe me', and so becomes actually interesting to follow because she wavers constantly between being very competent (by lying that she is) and having no idea what she's doing (because she doesn't).I'd say stick with it. I went back to reread recently and I was skipping big chunks of book 1, but once the slog was over it had me by the testicles.
>>73476813>>73476823GGS has a premise that /sounds plausible/ and then he runs with it with basically no evidence and it gets absurd very quickly. It’s the problem with all backwards looking theories of human development-it’s basically supposition. Evolutionary psychology falls into similar problems where people say stupid things like “women like pink because they picked berries” while ggs and cold winters equally ignore the holes in their theories... I mean really, if cold winters theory was true than the iroquois and pequots would be super geniuses, to say nothing of neanderthals, not to fucking mention that civilization flourished first in areas which rather noticeably lack cold fucking winters.In all likelyhood there isn’t a single simple answer for why civilizations developed the way they did. >>73476934I want to add also that I don’t see how ggs could help with world building. I strongly suspect you are being an autist.
Is Honor Harrington any good?
>>73477587Horatio Hornblower is better
>>73461397Another man of culture I see, I'm working on Book 10 right now
>>73477587I’ve heard horror stories about it, but since they warded me off I can’t actually confirm any of them.
>>73477587>>73477587Not HH no, I've read David Weber's Safehold series and liked it, but with such a huge asterisk above that 'like' that I never gave HH a go.Its difficult to read a series and think 'Boy, am I enjoying this, but I feel like somewhere there is (or should be) be a series that is this same concept but does more with it... and in less words'.A part of me wonders if the reason I like Safehold is that I've read so much of it a part of my brain is running a self-defense mechanism that won't allow me to change that opinion and waste that time investment. Like literature stockholm syndrome. Am I really genuinely looking forward to the next book in it? Feels like it, but I can't be totally sure.HH is similiarly fucking huge and I'm fearful of going through that confusing feeling again.
>>73477505> How does a book that explain the development and expansion of human civilizations be used for worldbuilding?I don't think I'm the autist here anon
>>73477282God, I read a couple of these after running out of Animoph books.I think even as a shitty teen I was already rolling my eyes on their take on Norse mythology.There was a pretty neat scene of a bunch of Vikings bawling their eyes out after hearing Killing me softly, which I totally ripped of for TTRPGs, TSeveral times no less.
>>73478448But then you went on to ask how The Bell Curve could help with world building so it really does beg the question.
What's your opinion on Jack Williamson?
>>73478448I’m implying your an autist for thinking that that is important. the fact that you couldn’t pick up on that confirms it. Also, you’re retarded for thinking ggs explains anything. Wiggling your hands and saying “magic” is more accurate and compelling
>>73458757The dark Glory War.
>>73477587I read the first few pages.In it you get the POV of some dude watch Honor walk across a hallway. He starts off saying how much he hates her because she’s like sixty but looks young because of genetics/drugs & how she’s so much better than him & I couldn’t help but say, “Yeah I’d hate her too, fuck it” & put the book down
>>73477416Everyone should at least try to read it to the point of the Blackthorn’s big flashback. I know that is three titanic sized books in... but that’s really the best fucking shit. Stuff like Kaladin’s last bridgerun, & it’s symmetry with how he got there in the first place. The discovery of the mountain city. All these parts are what makes the books, not the slow characterization & worldbuilding. That exists so we can move everything along
>>73477282To this day I want to play a game we’re the players themselves get transported to my version of mythworld, giant powers & fight gods & titans
>>73472888>>73472865Time & Place. I’ll even let you team up. Eddings is peak comfy & Lieber is shit
>>73483005I'm having a lot of trouble rationalizing that with just how bad the names are. Kaladin? Blackleaf? That's some dragonlance tier dogshit fantasy naming.
>>73483038If you're autistic enough to learn gurps you can easily do it. You can even have them bring in shit from our world
>>73458757Did they ever figure out what the four elephants were thinking?
>Ctrl F>no Robert Jordan???
>>73483272Is probably adapt Scion or something ANYTHING other than GURPS
>>73483237What’s wrong with naming conventions? Blackthorn is a sobriquet/monikerI bet you’d love Renarin’s names meaning lol
>>73483237What, that's your problem? That the names are bad? When 90% of fantasy works off the Aerith and Bob namelist where half of it is just normal english names and the rest don't fit at all. "Hi Kurothatarian!" "Oh, hi Elizabeth. Nice day today."At least in Stormlight all the different cultures have their own recognizable name systems so you can instantly tell which country they're meant to be from. Dalinar, Kaladin, Renarin, Adolin, Elhokar. You can tell at a glance all these people come from the same culture (because IIRC they make names by combining ideograms together, like less complicated japanese).
>>73483237"The Blackthorn" is a title, character's name is Dalinar but yes I agree with >>73483005 that his flashbacks in book three are great, because its very rare we get to see this kind of character take a focal point in Epic Fantasy.Its almost always 18-20 something twats who are either building up to become messiahs or edgelords. Its super refreshing to have "man in his 50s with two grown children ruminates over the life that led him to be who he is today"
>>73484046I forgot my dagger, but hey! It was right here all along!Best Scene for a protagonist in a VERY long time
>>73458757The works of Angela Carter serve as good inspiration for Changeling: The Lost.
>>73483999>the Aerith and Bob namelisttrips of failure
>>73483999>Dalinar, Kaladin, Renarin, Adolin, Elhokarjesus. that's pretty rough. sounds like the kind of character names you get when some Forever GM whose reach exceeds his grasp starts working on his own half-ass conlang behind the scenes and then reveals all the NPC names have "meanings" in the language of old high alderan or whatever. And they'll be like really explicit, literal translations, y'know, just two or three of the conlang words smushed together. like some kind of 3rd rate tolkein impersonation.