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Waiting edition

Previous thread: >>67147422

>News
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/04/white-dwarf-preview-julygw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-3/

>Downloads; Rules Errata and FAQs:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

>Rules & Files
https://mega.nz/#F!QGZWyKIR!tdB0Xi0bry5c1mdKZsgxGw

>Regularly updated faction tactics pdf
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/256066/warhammer-40000-kill-team/files

>Comprehensive Mission Selector
https://mega.nz/#F!y7YCTQyY!p3pIGNVx-7lYp6iLnyRtgA

>Homebrew Missions
https://pastebin.com/yB56vpHP

>$50 or under starting Kill Teams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgXd4NjJOis [Embed]

>TQ
How will they fuck up Daemons KT?
>Alt TQ
How will they NOT fuck up Daemons KT?
>>
>>67192934
Dark Angels
+Leader+ 40
>Terminator Sergeant, Plasma Cannon, Power sword
+Specs+ 62
>Terminator, storm bolter, power fist - combat
>Terminator, storm bolter, power fist - veteran

102/100

>2 points short
guy I am dying
>>
>>67189573
>>67189595
Demon Waifu next please.
>>
>>67192945
Can't the leader take a combi-weapon? Just drop the plasma cannon, its an over costed plasma gun for a unit thats already ridiculously expensive.
>>
>>67193237
+Leader Spec+ 36
>Terminator Champion, combi-plasma, power axe
+Specs+ 64
>Terminator Gunner, Reaper Autocannon, chainaxe 32 - Heavy
>Terminator Gunner, Heavy Flamer, chainaxe 32 - Demolitions

100/100

Should I drop power axe back to chainaxe and get +1 ld icon?
How does this look anyway
>>
ok so I am finally getting into Kill Teams. We won't be using commanders and its 3 of us. I'm playing Eldar vs DE and Primaris Mehrehns.

Its a little 3 man bro-party and i have plenty of experience doing 40K but none in KT and I want to do something fun/fluffy and use models I like but also not be a cunt to my bros. How bad/good/WAAC is this list?


Leader:
Guardian: 7pts

Zealot:
Howling Banshee Exarch: 17pts
- Executioner

Combat Specialist:
WraithBlade: 45pts
- Ghostaxe
- ForceShield


Guardian: 7pts
Heavy Weapons Platform: 11
- Star Cannon
Guardian: 7pts
Storm Guardian: 6pts
- Chain Sword


Is this absolute trash, will this work OK? I have 15,000 points of Eldar so I'm not hurting for options. Just trying to find something neat to play and I like the idea of using banshees and wraiths.
>>
>>67193582
Wish I could help but I have no idea
>>
>>67193582
Not sure if it will help you, but this is considered a good roster by some people.
>>
>>67194123
maximum waac
>>
Newbie here, I just got the burna orks can anyone give some tips on what to add or something tactics?
>>
>>67194862
Shoot yourself in the foot cause you’re playing orks
>>
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>>67194862
A Nob and a Kommando Boss Nob are usually auto-includes. Kommando's are good for fighting GEQ's and Gretchin make for some dirt-cheap fodder. Beyond that I'd consider additional Nobs from the Elites book. Beyond your Burna's (or kombi-scorcha's) you should look to focus on melee, Orks have some good guns but with BS5+ they're hell to actually make work.

>>67194898
Orks have only ever been bad if you try to force a shooty team, and with elites they've got even more options desu.
>>
>>67194862
just burn stuff dude
>>
>>67192934
TQ:
If they just copy-pasta the four troop daemons, which is likely what will happen.
Alt TQ:
Add in the Heralds for Commanders, plus Elite and Fast Attack options, nothing is more op than a Termie in them now we have Elites as a thing, so they should show up.
Also Icons need to get looked into, as daemon morale with them in 40k can make them summon new ones to replace ganked ones.
They also should get one of their four sub-faction rules from the 8e codex if you go mono-god with them.
>>
>>67193298
Make a roster, you're just mugging yourself going mono-list with three Terminators.
>>
>>67193582
You only have two specialists there that I can see past your Leader. You're allowed a third.
You can always make a roster up, so depending on the mission or which friend you go up against you can make a few swaps to options that may serve you more.
>>
Tau
>>
Why is there no good spot on tyranid warrior bone sword arms to place toxin sacs?
>>
>>67196373
You're supposed to put the toxin sacs dangling between its legs, anon.
>>
Next week got tourney at one shop in town
Full WAAC fags go there and are expected.
Will probably see orks, DE, and Nids (and whatever else they net list the night before)
What would be better
DG
Or 20 roster cultist spam list.

I'm there just to actually play the damn game not be a huge WAAC faggot
What would you bring?
>>
>>67196594
I'd go with Death Guard. They'll likely perform better for you and are just more fun to play, IMO.

>Next week got tourney at one shop in town
>Full WAAC fags go there and are expected.
Isn't a tournament kind of the one place were it's 100% appropriate to be playing as competitively as possible?
>>
>>67196594
Sorry forgot to add it's 100 points elites allowed.
>>
>>67196702
The shop I play were it's just laid back
We had 100pt tourney I never had so much fun we all did so much stupid shit
This shop this one is at is a no fun allowed store. Like if you dont have painted figured they won't let you play. So I just wanna go play because I like playing it
>>
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>>67196802
>Like if you dont have painted figured they won't let you play.
Based gamestore gatekeeping plebs who are so lazy they can't even paint up 3 to 20 models.
>>
It sucks deathguard, thousand sons, and chaos didn't get new tactics aside from Teleport Strike. Being a chaosfag is suffering in this game.
>>
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>>67196736
I'd still roll with Death Guard unless you're feeling particularly fond of Berzerkers that day.

>>67197126
I mean on the one hand as a chaos player I'd have liked to see more tactics included in the boxes because that's what they've done with all the other faction starter kits, but on the other having tactics split up between the book and the starter kit was a pain in the ass, and some of the starter kit exclusive tactics were some horseshit.
>>
>>67197183
The main problem is, the chaos tactics are kind of trash on the whole.

Cloud of Flies is really good, but it is the only good deathguard tactic.

Heretic Astartes themselves have a pathetic four tactics, and all of them are pretty bad.

Thousand Sons do better than the other 3 by giving you the option to roll 2 dice for warpflamers and ticking down Malicious Familiar to only 1 command point vs Nurgling Infestation and Daemonic Spirit. But even Immovable Automaton feels weak next to Death Denied.

They had a good chance to add new tactics for the factions that didn't get new tactics (Eldar, Harlies, and Chaos) but they didn't. So now they feel really behind.
>>
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>>67197254
To be fair most factions, even ones that got starter kit tactics, don't really have anything nearly as good as Death Denied. 95% of the time I see tactics used, it's for one of the generic ones everyone has access to, usually Tactical Re-Roll or Decisive Shot/Strike (or Look Our, Sir! if it's a commander game).
I'm not too worried about some factions having more access to mostly-useless faction-specific tactics than others.
>>
>>67197126
Playing the abyss dudes is like cheating. So stfu and play it right.
>>
>>67197346
>Playing the abyss dudes is like cheating
Please elaborate. I haven't played with/against them but I browsed their available datasheets and nothing really stood out to me as busted or anything.
>>
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>>67197368
>>
>>67198519
Are you memeing? Negavolt cultists are decent but they're not some crazy busted unbeatable unit - certainly not worthy of saying someone is basically "cheating" if they're playing them. It's a melee glass cannon with no AP. At 9 points it's semi-spammable but its not like they're particularly hard to kill. There are plenty of other units in the game that I'd be more worried about facing down than negavolt cultists. Hell, even within the "melee glass cannon" category there are other units I'd be more concerned about fighting.
>>
>>67198675
>glass cannon
Without the glass part?
>>
>>67198710
If you're having problems punching through T3 W1 5++/5+++ I don't know what to tell you.
>>
>>67198754
If you do the meth, you will see that 5++/5+++ is close to marine defense. Oh and look, they also are better in CC than a marine. And what is that, is that an ability that can dish out mortal wounds? No, that can't be, because that model is 3 points cheaper than a marine.

Math > your feeling of a unit
>>
>>67198910
I'm not sure how you're mathhammering but every calculation I've done points to it still melting to your typical KT fare; plasma, blight launchers, frag cannons, fusion guns,etc. Even flamers are going to force an injury roll on average.

Being "nearly as survivable as a marine" doesn't really mean much when marines go down like wet cardboard.
>>
>>67198993
gif me a better CC unit
i want to test your meth
>>
>>67198675
>>67198710
>glass cannon
>Without the glass part?
They're solid units but you're both kinda wrong here. They don't even have the cannon part unless you're facing them with guardsman.
They're basically on par with a stock standard Genestealer with rending claws - slightly better against 6+ or worse, on par with 5+, slightly worse against 4+ or better.
And while a GS costs 2 extra points, it also gets +2" of movement, +1T and rerolled charges and better tactics to use with it.
Negavolts are solid units but they're definitely not cheating and they're not really glass cannons either.
>>
>>67199040
>gif me a better CC unit
Any close-quarters unit?
Plague marine with a cleaver? Acolyte Fighter with a rock cutter (especially so with Pauper Princes trait to re-roll all failed hit rolls)? A Custodes? Most units that can take a high strength/AP/multi-damage weapon?
I'm not saying the negavolt cultist is bad or anything, he's decent for his points cost and is a good tool in the arsenal of SotA, but he's not particularly tanky and the fact that he's capped at 1 damage and thus only 1 injury roll limits his usefulness. I'm really not seeing how you've come to the conclusion that out of all the stuff in KT, negavolts are somehow gamebreakingly OP.
>>
>>67199102
and GS has no5+++ and is only S4
also the topic was chaos and not xenos
A for effort but F for the rest
>>
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I'm gonna do it lads!
Today i'm gonna sit in the GW and learn how to play properly! Booked a slot for the lesson and everythin!
>>
>>67194847
Nothing waac about that, just a good selection of options.
>>
>>67195399
>You can always make a roster up, so depending on the mission or which friend you go up against you can make a few swaps to options that may serve you more.
This. This is how the game is played. Playing a monolist will bite you regularly.
>>
>>67199127
We where talking about chaos and not the whole kill team stuff.
Also now you are comparing a 9p model with no limitations to a 19p model which you can only take a max of 2 in your list.

2*0,5*0,84*0,66
cleaver wounds 55,9% with a high chance of killing it (i was to lazzy for the FNP because mulit weapon)

6*0,66*0,5*0,33*0,66
that is a 44,4% chance for 2 negavolts against a cleaver marine (again lazzy and not counting the chance for mortal).

so yeah, your dude is clearly better on paper.
>>
>>67199153
>and GS has no5+++ and is only S4
That accounts for S4, you mong, and yes it doesn't have a FNP but it is still 5++ and with everything else going for Nids vs SoTA, a GS team will outperform a NVC team handily.
>also the topic was chaos and not xenos
The topic was "SoTA is like cheating" which is bullshit.
>>
>>67199153
>and GS has no5+++ and is only S4
FNP isn't particularly good in KT with the plethora of multi-damage weapons people are running, and the difference between the genestealer attack profile with the S4 AP1 (6+ AP3) and S5 AP0 (6+ 3 hits) is minimal. They're still very much comparable units.

>also the topic was chaos and not xenos
The topic is how playing Servants of the Abyss is somehow akin to "cheating" because apparently Negavolt Cultists are just that gamebreaking. That's a discussion about it's place in the wider context of Kill Team, nothing to do with it having the chaos keyword.
>>
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>>67199335
>That accounts for S4, you mong
S5>S4 you fucktard

>The topic was "SoTA is like cheating" because we are only talking about chaos dudes. this was the beginning >>67197126

now fuck off
>>
>>67199192
Sounds fun anon. KT can be a little overwhelming at the start if you aren't familiar with 40k but you'll pick up the basics quickly. Do you know what faction you'll be playing in your demo?
>>
>>67199568
He said they have demo stuff at the store but i can bring my own if i've already got any models in mind, which i have and do.

>4 Vanguard with Omnispecs, one with data teather
>1 Vanguard Alpha with radium pistol and arc maul
>1 Vanguard gunner with Transuronic
>1 Ur-25

We'll see what sticks, and if it's ill advised i'll use whatever they have there!
>>
>>67199406
>S5>S4 you fucktard
Yes you fucking retard but unless you're fighting webbers for some godforsaken reason it literally only matters for how it affects the models attacks. And given the comparison was kill/damage chance, not a pointless eyeball comparison of the stats which wouldn't account for weapon special abilities anyway, the different in strength is already taken into account.
>Only chaos dudes matter
So your argument is that its "cheating" because it doesn't suck as much as CSM did? Like Chaos players should suffer? Thats fucking stupid..
>>
>>67199640
>>S5>S4 you fucktard
>Yes you fucking retard but unless you're fighting webbers for some godforsaken reason it literally only matters for how it affects the models attacks. And given the comparison was kill/damage chance, not a pointless eyeball comparison of the stats which wouldn't account for weapon special abilities anyway, the different in strength is already taken into account.

tldr
you are a cunt

and to your other point
you are a cunt
xD
not even trying to explain it again

but please go on
your tears are
de li ci ou se
>>
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>>67199712
Are you having a stroke? Do you need me to call someone anon?
>>
>>67199712
Hahaha that cope.
>>
>>67199712
Lmao
>>
>>67196373
I stuck them on the forearms.
Bulbous part pointing to the elbows, the thin point part pointing to the wrists.
It makes it look like it's a part of the forearm and the toxin enters the hand's bloodstream which is already fused with the bonesword.
>>
>>67198754
It's all fine until you roll a flesh wound.
Then if you're lucky enough to have a command point to reroll the injury roll... You roll a flesh wound again.
The times I've ended up just rolling flesh wound for every injury roll whilst t'other player gets out of actions... It isn't fair.
>>
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>>67200123
And that's why multi-damage weapons are so valuable despite the majority of units only having 1 wound.
>>
>>67200123
The whole point of games which have a random element is that you use your choices to increase the chance of success.

In the case of injury rolls you either need more attacking weapons to give you more injury rolls or multidamage weapons to increase the chance of success on the injury roll.
>>
>>67193582
Construct is good vs marines, bad vs deldar cause their poison weapons ignore his high T. BS Exarch with Exec is great. Guardians are bad vs your opponents cause they outrange them quite a bit. Consider dropping them and taking DA. Also make DA Exarch with 2 Shu Cats your leader, hes tanky and hes the most cost-effective model in the entire game. Drop SG, they such. Keep one Guardian to operate Starcannon and make him a coms spec. Or if you want to get extra agressive drop Starcannon and take 2 SG gunners with fusion guns, shorter range but they melt faces.
>>
>>67194123
Hold up. You're allowed multiple options on your Roster that would be illegal in the Kill-Team itself? If I'm playing Dark Eldar, and I'm limited to two Kabalite Gunners in my team, can I have four on the Roster?
>>
>>67195369
well it's cheap for a poorfag like me.
What else should I add, possessed?
>>
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>>67199789
>>67199804
>>67199966
>>
>>67200413
Jesus dude, you must have been having a BAD time if you didn't know that.
But yes, the restrictions are only on what can be on your team, not your roster.
>>
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>>67200413
you can have e.g. 5 different leader specialists on your roster, but when you create a list for you next game from the roster you can only use one of the leaders.
>>
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>>67200501
Yes anon?
>>
>>67200413
The restriction is on your team, not your roster.

Check the battleforged rules, there are very few restrictions on your roster.
>>
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>>67200531
you are a faggot
>>
I swear to god I hope you can have a battle forged team while fielding the daemons associated with your legion.

On another note, I finally picked up a box of blightlord termies, and I'm gonna play with them because they're cool
>>
>>67200622
>because they're cool
the only criteria you need
>>
>>67200580
Haha holy shit you're so petty. All this because you're bad at mathhammer and an anon called you out on it?
This is amazing. How do you function in society?
>>
>>67200665
He doesn't, he's some neet living in his moms basement.
>>
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>>67200665
What he said >>67200710

Also read this again mr. smartass
>>67199712
>>
Tried to put an Elites CSM roster together, it is too light on Cultist for Core, but I think I can still fit enough models into a list for Arena games.
All have Mark of Khorne and the World Eaters Legion trait. I am considering the Renegades trait instead.

Leader
Aspiring Champion, Plasma Pistol, E-Sword 16
Cultist Champion, Shotgun 5

Combat
Berserker Champion, E-Fist, Plasma Pistol 22
Berserker Champion, E-Claw, Plasma Pistol 19

Zealot
Berserker, Chainaxe + Sword 17
Aspiring Champion, E-Fist, Plasma Pistol 18

Sniper
CSM Gunner, Plasmagun 16

Heavy
CSM Gunner, Heavy Bolter 16

Non Spec.
Berserker, Chainaxe + Sword 17
Berserker, Chainaxe + Sword 17
Berserker, Chainaxe + Sword 17
Terminator, Combi-melta, Chainfist 40
Terminator Gunner, Reaper, Chainaxe 32
Terminator Champion, 2 E-Claws 30
Cultist Gunner, Stubber 5
Cultist Gunner, Stubber 5
Cultist, Autogun 4
Cultist, Autogun 4
Cultist, Autogun 4

Commander
Sorcerer, force Stave, Presience, Diabolic Strength, Fortitude lvl. 2 80


Going Renegades would make the Commander less grating, and fit a bit better with the part where they aren't supposed to be World Eaters, but I want the bonus attack on the Berserkers.
There are 5 Berserkers, because that is as many as I can fit into a 100 point list, with the load out I want on them, even if I have to use a Cultist as Leader again, and running the CSM champ instead of the Berserker Zealot is probably better. I'm considering making that champ a leader as well, as the lvl. 1 tactic could be quite useful.
The two CSM Gunners are in, because they are still good.
The Termies are there for Teleporting in against hiding Leaders, the one with the Reaper Autocannen for eventual fire support. I don't want to give them specialization, since I see them as ad-on units that would compete for a specialist slot in a list, that is already filled with a Marine, who gets used more often.
Filled the remaining slots with Cultist, because you still need them.
>>
>>67200913
Cont.
As for the badly layed out fluff. They are a Chapter that recruited exclusively from the feral worlds of a single system. After the last Marines from their founding died, their ideology and fighting style aligned itself ever closer to that of their home. Psykers and Chaplains became Warchanters, who were supposed to induce the Berserker rage in their allies, only now their chants were heard. Their fall to chaos came slightly later.
For the role of the Warchanter I want, the Sorcerer just seems better than the Dark Apostle, since he can make the others fight better by calling upon the warp, while the Apostle still seems to be mainly a Cultist supporter. If the Master of Possession conversion doesn't work out, he gets scrubbed from the list.
I'm mainly working with the CSM from Shadowspear and three Termies I still have for this, so I would only have to figure out what GW only models would work for Cultists. I'm considering a box of Skitarii, as that would help to tie these guys into the largely Daemonengine based non-slaanesh part of my CSM, and I could dip into an Admech team as well.
>>
>>67199192
Good luck, friend. Let us know how it goes
>>
>>67200913
Finally someone with a rooster, not a list!
Looks good but your secind AChamp doesnt have leader spec.
Also i would take flamers over stubbers.
>>
I'm gonna play whatever I want even if it's shit!
>>
>>67201033
Thanks. I said I was considering making the Aspiring Champion with fist a leader too, now I will. I mostly had him as a Zealot, because that or Combat was the norm for him.
The Cultist are mainly point fillers that sit on objectives. The stubbers feel more Khorne than flamers, are cheaper, and I feel like I have plenty of anti horde in meele. They also seem easier to proxy on the skitarii I'm considering for Cultists. I've been playing Necrons so far and expect to mainly face them, normal SM, DG, Orks and Nids, so flamers can be worth it, but I'm just not sure about expecting anything from Cultist. If I use them as mobile cover instead of backline objective holders, flamers do look better again too.
>>
>>67200622
>I swear to god I hope you can have a battle forged team while fielding the daemons associated with your legion.
I predict - not.
>>
>>67200662
They're also not bad as part of a roster.
>>
Is this game worth playing? Prior to release I made a deathwatch team by using primars bodies and deathwatch arms+heads etc. They look ace, but for WYSIWYG it locks me out of primaris bodies so they can be differentiated.

Am I screwed? MY impression from local players is each team has THE LIST and deviating from THE LIST means you are a scrub and deserve to lose all the time. Kinda why I fell out of love with warmahordes, so I'd avoid that route.
>>
>>67201258
I am going to get my chaos termies, paint them as night lords and play with just them, don't care If I lose and you should do same.
I'm not adding to sperg quota
>>
>>67201265

I'd rather not play a game where I prepare, ehad down to play, and watch my stuff die to unpainted random T'au stuff. Otherwise my minis still have value as painting projects, but I want a down-to-earth perspective
>>
>>67201258
This game is about rosters not lists.

You choose your list after you've seen the mission, the terrain and your opponent's roster.

Lots of situational units are useful because you can select them only where it's useful.
>>
>>67201258
Also, manlets only DW is great, especially with the addition of vanguard and terminators.

You're not missing much by leaving primaris out.
>>
>>67201306
Valid point on my poor terminology. Can a roster made up of upscaled manlets be considered viable, or am I gimping myself too much? I can stretch to reivers tho, as they are visually different enough for even a THAT GUY opponent to not be able to raise a fuss.

>>67201325

Cool! Is there any "go to" build for DW termies in KT that tend to be helpful?
>>
>>67201402
You're generally only going to be using one or two as deep strike assassins. One heavy flamer and one ass cannon covers most bases.

Note that DW can't deep strike jump packers for some reason...

A vanguard with a shield and weapon of your choice is nice for a fast moving objective claimer.
>>
>>67198910
>If you do the meth, you will see that 5++/5+++ is close to marine defense.
You need 4.5 lasgun hits to land one Injury roll on a Negavolt (4.5 hits, 2.25 wounds, 1.5 unsaved, 1 un-FNP, 1 injury roll).

You need 9 lasgun hits to land one Injury roll on a Tactical Marine (9 hits, 3 wounds, 1 unsaved, 1 injury roll). The Marine also has Transhuman Physiology.

So, no, they're half as tough so long as you don't waste plasma on them.
>>
I wonder what Specialists daemons will get? Looking at the Kill Team core, it's a real coinflip as to who gets what and who misses out.

For example, Horrors are a perfect fit for the Heavy mechanically (the only daemon fit, actually), but I suspect they won't get it just because they're meant to be weedy little imps. On the other hand, they're perfect for a Demolitions role thematically, but definitely can't have it because they don't have grenades or a flamer.

Similarly, I think Daemonettes are a perfect fit for a Medic (calming presence, torture, half the abilities are about drugs), but I suspect they'll not get it because "daemons don't have medics".

...looking at this stuff, you really start to realize how much daemons could have used more unit options back when they updated the plastic boxes.
>>
After we started using Elites, the 1k Sons player is asking to up the limit on regular Sorcerers from 1 to 2. His reasoning is that his faction ability doesn't do anything unless he has 2, and he doesn't own or want to use a Terminator sorcerer. We only play 100pt games, for all it matters.

He's not whining (yet) but he has brought it up basically every game. Is he being a faggot, or should we let him try it out for a few games?
>>
>>67201589
they will only have combat spec :)))
>>
>>67201635
He's a faggot and dont let him.
If TS could easily wield 2 sorcerers they would be grey knights but with chaff units.
Psybolt is the most boring and onedimensional mechanic in the game and if he wants to abuse it to full extent he better spend those 40 points.
Let him proxy some other model as the termie sorc though.
>>
>>67201265
>I am going to get my chaos termies, paint them as night lords
>TFW Night Lords
>TFW no Raptors in Elites
>TFW Marines get jump packs
M- maybe Daemons will include Furies that I can use, at least?
>>
>>67201639
>they will only have combat spec :)))
...I mean, they'll obviously have Leader, but you've actually got me worried now. Bloodletters should have Combat and Zealot, and I would EXPECT them to have Veteran and maybe Scout, but my expectations have been betrayed before.
>>
>>67201686
>no aggressors in elites
What kind of reasoning is GW following when deciding units for this?
>>
>>67201700
>but you've actually got me worried now.
I don't expect daemons to be good at all and neither should you.
WD releases are half-assed shit just to make you buy more models
>>
>>67201674
>If TS could easily wield 2 sorcerers they would be grey knights but with chaff units.
Fair enough.

The issue is that most of us agree with his point that he basically got nothing out of Elites except a unit he can't afford to use and a Trait that only works with that unit. I think he's doing fine regardless, but it's clearly eating at him that everyone else got a buff even with their old roster and he got nothing. God knows it's not like the DG player needed an extra Trait, he was already borderline unopposed...

I don't know, maybe we need to work out an alt-Trait or something. Any ideas?
>>
>>67201686
Protip: play Raven Guard as a counts-as.

ATSKNF is better than DTTFE, Reivers already get the Night Lords bonus anyway, and you can have your jump pack boys from Elites. The only thing you outright lose are Cultists; other than them, basic CSM are so flavorless in kill team that it won't matter.
>>
Trying to get into Killteam, thoughts on this list to just start out? Keep in mind I'll start building a roster once I build more models. These dudes are based on an AU setting

Watch Sergeant (Leader): Xenophase w/ Combi-plasma
- 23 points

Deathwatch Veteran Gunner (Heavy): Frag Cannon
- 21 points

Blackshield (CC or Zealot?): Storm shield w/ Power maul
- 21 points

Deathwatch Veteran: Power sword w/ Combi-Melta
- 19

Deathwatch Veteran: Power sword
- 16 points

Total: 100 points
>>
>>67201747
The gunner termie with heavy flamer and missiles is a potent unit and he could consider that in 125p games at least.
But double psybolt per turn is one of the most cancerous things to do in KT and its good that its locked behind a severe point cost.
Also its not like TS is the only one that got questionable Elites additions. Drukhari is pretty fucking dumb as well as you need to choose whether you want faction traits or a flexible team. Also Wracks still havent been errata'd.
>t. TS and Drukhari player

But yeah if you really need something for him so he doesnt get too upset just houserule some trait for Tzaangors. Maybe le reroll charges :^) as GW likes to give it out like candy
>>
I think Death Guard are a gatekeeper faction and once you git gud fighting them, you become better as a whole at kill team and bringing what you need to win consistently vs elite teams (and hordes to a lesser extent)

Deathguard are really, REALLY good versus people who are bad at list building. They have elite models that hit hard with high toughness, a good save, and a fnp backed by lots of objective holding fodder. But they teach you the importance of multi damage weapons, maneuverbility, and shooting. All their weapons are devastatingly strong but they have no real way to buff accuracy. They also have to trudge into effective range of all of their weapons, being a faction that engages at mid to close range.So you have to build a list that can counter their durability and heavy weapons with plasma, buffs to hit, and readying/decisive shot/good positioning. Because they are restricted to 3 good shooting models, they usually bring flails/cleavers that are devastating if they get into close combat, but if you learn to kite them or throw fodder under the bus, they are significantly less threatening. Overall, I think deathguard are much weaker than people give them credit for once you understand their weaknesses and how to exploit them.
>>
>>67201909
You've only got 5 models decide if you're going shooting or melee and commit. You can add the other role when you expand your roster.
>>
>>67201635
He's being a faggot
>>
Hey guys as somone looking to get into 40k is killteam like warhammer fantasies mordheim?

I’m aware most battles are fought as one off lists, but are there campaign/injury rules?
If it helps I’d like to try tyranid because they might be fun to paint, I know nothing crunchwise on them
>>
>>67203706
There is a very simplistic campaign ruleset in kill team, but it’s pretty forgiving and don’t modify games too much unless you have a larger collection to choose models from or plan to play the game across dozens of games before closing it down

If you prefer a campaign based game- check out necromunda.

As far as tyranids go in kill team, they’re pretty solid, but may require you to spread out your purchases across different kits which may be a deal breaker for you. You can have a lot of little guys or a few big dudes. They’re flexible in that way depending on your preferred playstyle
>>
>>67200504
>>67200544
I've only played a few games so it hasn't come up yet, but I'm planning out my full roster for the future and completely missed this. Thanks for the replies.
>>
How would you go about making the Psychic phase more interesting in Kill Team? At the moment it's just 'are you within 18", if yes then roll to almost certainly mortal wound the nearest thing', which is dull as dishwater.
>>
Looking to get into servants of the abyss because I like the idea of corrupted guardsmen fighting alongside beastmen and other horrors. Looks to see most people just using negavolts and beastmen. Anyone got good ideas to make a diverse SotA list?
>>
>>67205137
Want to make something based on the sons of sek
>>
>>67204932
A good start would be giving psykers the same options the commanders get. Trade out psybolt for something else more interesting.
Maybe not every power, and also make the selection permanent unlike Commanders so that its a real choice.
This would at least make it a tactical decision what you field.
>>
Which would you prefer, anons?
>A Space Marine team of only manlets
>A Chaos Marine team
>>
>>67205407
CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS CHAOS
>>
>>67205205
That's a good idea, yeah. I get that they wanted to keep it simple, and base kill team only has two psykers to begin with (with only two more - wyrdvane and horrors - that could even make it in without Commanders), but Psybolt combines an almost total lack of agency on the defender's side with an almost total lack of agency on the attacker's side. You can't really control who you target, whether you succeed, whether you survive, etc. It just happens.
>>
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That 1ksons player sent me this datasheet (I assume fanmade) as something he'd like to try proxying. Y/N?

I'm thinking no, just because 1ksons don't get strong melee units, only tzaangor chaff, and these guys look like tougher grey knights without guns.

...also, do these guys even exist in the fluff? I never heard of them.
>>
>>67205633
But why
>>
>>67205706
>Y/N?
>Gee Magnus, how come your dad lets you have TWO Sorcerers?
No.

>...also, do these guys even exist in the fluff? I never heard of them.
Yeah, they're a Forge World thing that didn't get ported from 30k to 40k, just like all those Mechanicum vehicles and robots.
>>
>>67203706
If you want tyranids, the purchase order should be...

A box of warriors
A box of hormagaunts
2-3 genestealers
A lictor
Box of raveners
One hiveguard

Then ignore termagants and tyrant guard unless you just really love them.
>>
Tyranids or BA?
>>
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>I think deathguard are much weaker than people give them credit for once you understand their weaknesses and how to exploit them.
I don't really think this is a correct assessment. Once you're taking advantage of rosters and list-tailoring the same can be said about literally every faction you face, from other high ranking faction like Tau and Guard to lower contenders like Grey Knights and Orks. Death Guards strength comes from its access a fair number of solid special weapons combined with access to cheap chaff which makes them adaptable for nearly any foe and mission; this is a pattern that's repeated between all of the high tier factions. People don't consider Death Guard good because they're good at pubstomping noobies, they're considered good because what makes a faction strong in Kill Team is how well it handles every kind of mission and enemy faction, and Death Guard do that admirably.
>>
>>67206274
Derp, was replying to >>67202398
>>
>>67205137
Use Renegades and Heretics. Their core units suck and they're comically unsupported, but Mauraders are straight-up better Veterans and theres plenty of weird/fun options like Nurgle Ogryns and Mutant Rabbles. I've had fun with them at 500pt-ish level alongside IW.
>>
>>67205707
Chaos Marines got cool updated sculpts that can still be pretty easily converted into Legions/Warbands etc. Manlets have the aesthetics but not the scale/quality, Primaris are boring as shit in terms of looks/loadouts.
>>
>>67206320
Wrong thread anon. This is the Kill Team general.
>>
>>67206320
Ignore me i'm a retard, thought I was in /40kg/.
>>
>>67206336
Yes, but if I want maximum fun what do I pick
>>
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>>67206525
Chaos if you like khorne berzerkers and having a horde of cultists to die gloriously for you, or Loyalists if you want to play an elite team with access to enough wargear options to blot out the sun.
>>
>>67206525
Do you want better rules, or better models? Depends whats fun to you, Veterans make SM pretty strong for just loading up on special weapons and AP, but I still beat my friends SM with my Chaos regularly so if your playing casual it shouldn't matter too much.
>>
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Guys I just want to have fun, which faction do I pick?
>>
>GSC elites is just commanders
ouch, must hurt
>>
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>>67206692
Eldar.
>>
are any of the astartes in shadowspear worth running in kill team?
>>
>>67206921
>bunch of resin
nice try GW
>>
>>67205706
Absolute fucking garbage.
Your TS player sounds like some 14 year old throwing a fit over not getting all the overpowered things. Tell him to suck it up and just build a team of grey knights or better yet an actually interesting faction.
>>
>>67206881
Anon, my teams are
>Dark Eldar
>Thousand Sons
>GSC

I feel like the most cucked man alive when it comes to Elites.
>>
>>67206934
Suppressors are okay in 125 point missions and pretty terrifying in 200 point missions. Eliminators are okay if you're refusing to take manlets.
Infiltrators are overcosted for what they actually bring to the table.
None of them are a must-include IMO.
>>
>>67207010
>I feel like the most cucked man alive when it comes to Elites.
Hey, at least you're not playing any of the non-book factions which got literally nothing.
>>
>>67207022
cool, thanks

i mostly like the models, and figured i could make a primaris DW squad out of 5 of the eliminators
>>
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>>67205706
>...also, do these guys even exist in the fluff? I never heard of them.
Pic related.

That datasheet is fine so long as you remove the sorcerer. Multi-psybolt is cancer.
>>
>>67207147
>Khenetai
more like hentai lmao
>>
>>67207147
Apparently the only reason that TS player wants them is that he can spam multi psybolts though
>>
>>67206881
Eh. They still have five different datasheets and functioning Sub-faction abilities (except Cult of the Four-Armed Emperor, fucken lol).

They didn't have anything TO add other than bikers (which probably would have worked, honestly; there are already two-wound models and models with double-digit move in Elites).

Dark Eldar were the real losers. They started out with two outdated datasheets that didn't even cover their Troops choices. They gained four datasheets, but one of those was a giant typo, and two of them lock you OUT of taking the original two.
>>
>>67207239
>Apparently the only reason that TS player wants them is that he can spam multi psybolts though
Then he just needs to accept that he got jack shit out of Elites. It's sad, but the alternative is multi-psybolts, which is worse. I sympathize! Elites literally sat him down and told him "hey, you and Grey Knights get to do multi-psybolts!" and then didn't actually let him do that. But that doesn't mean your group needs to enable Elite's lies.

If he wants combat models, these guys look fine; at 18pts, they're more expensive, much tougher Berzerkers who get half as many attacks but put down what they DO hit with powerweapon multiwounds. That's pretty neat, in concept.

If he wants a second sorcerer, tell him no. You can't stop him buying a Scarab Occult, but you can say no to this.
>>
>>67207147
...do these guys have 40k rules?
>>
>>67207350
>...do these guys have 40k rules?
IA 14 is AdMech-focused, so the thought is that it'll include 40k rules for a bunch of 30k stuff like the mantisbots. Whether that'll include Heresy-era Marine gear like chainglaives, volkites, Headhunters or Jackals is unknown.
>>
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>>67207261
>kinda want to start eldar
>everything beyond wraiths is resin
hahahHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA
>>
>>67207261
Also forgot to add, biggest losers are in fact Harlies because they are literally a single kit and didn't get ANYTHING beyond masque rules
>>
>>67207436
Your core is plastic, it's just old and boring and a little outdated-looking and pathetic on the tabletop.

That said, the lack of a Banshees/Storm Guardians or Scorpions/Dragons plastic multikit is genuinely criminal.
>>
>>67207972
>Your core is plastic, it's just old and boring and a little outdated-looking and pathetic on the tabletop.
no shiet fren
>>
>>67200194
>>67200289
Correct. Also Tyranids outside of the Venom Cannon and Lictor grasping claws (plus some Elites choices) don't get multi-damage.
There are toxin sacs that help out for those equipped with them, I suppose also. Usually I find the models I gave these to (Combat Purestrain especially, even with extended carapace) die before I can get use out of them.
There's nothing more frustrating than managing to get to the injury roll, rolling 2d6 and getting a 1 and a 2 and not having command points to reroll them, or doing so and getting a 3.
>>
my first game w/ commanders, honestly have no idea what i'm doing
>200 pt cap

Nephrekh Necrons

+Commander+ 101
>Overlord, Warscythe - Tactical Commander
+Leader+ 25
>Lychguard, Hyperphase sword+dispersion shield
+Specs+ 42
>Immortal, Gauss Blaster - Comms
>Immortal, Gauss Blaster - Veteran
>Flayed One, Flayer Claws - Combat
+Non-specs+ 32
>Immortal, Gauss Blaster x2
>>
>>67208045
forgot to add the overlord has fortitude
>>
Procrastinated on priming these tiles quite a bit. The way I wanted to build the tile set for a ruined building didn't quite work out either, so I have to try something else.
>>
>>67206972
1Ksons are a perfectly fine faction.

If he wants dual psybolts he can pay the penalty of the terminator.
>>
>>67208512
Also did some work on the Berserkers for this >>67200913 roster. The heads are not final, and bluetacked on badly.
Still not sure what to use for Cultist, though I am warming up to using flamers instead of stubbers. Either Skitarii for the reasons I posted above, or just a box of Orloks from Necromunda. The latter don't run the risk of me branching into another team, but I'll feel really stupid for not buying the box last week, they also don't tie into the rest of my stuff too well. With the Skitarii I run the risk of buying the SCB instead, so I can get the Dunecrawler for a conversion I have planned.
>>
>>67207022
also, how does the chaos side fair?
>>
How are your killzones coming along anons?
>>
>>67205706
He can fuck right off.

Also a pox upon people that don't mark their fanwank as being unofficial.
>>
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>>67205706
>dusty boy with psybolt
>>
So... when will SoS come to KT?
They have more kits than Harlequins.
>>
>>67209092
Are you retarded?

They have one squad kit.

Harlies have one squad kit and three character kits.
>>
>>67209092
Probably when inquisition do.
>>
>>67209154
Core book has literally 1 Harlie kit which is players.
You are retarded.
>>
>>67209201
>Core book has literally 1 Harlie kit which is players
And I said they have one squad box. Can you not read?

They got two of their characters in commanders and they're still waiting ob the third.

Please explain how SoS have more kits.
>>
>>67209201
Wow, you really are dumb. Let me make this SUPER easy for you.

Harlies:
One squad kit in core
Two character kits in commanders
One character kit not in KT

SoS:
One kit not in KT

Hypothesis that SoS have more kits than Harlies: false as 1<4
>>
>>67209229
>>67209283
nobody plays commanders
>>
>>67209295
Except for the people that do.

Let's ignore commanders then.

Harlies have one kit and SoS have one.

Please explain how SoS have more kits.
>>
>>67209315
I meant variety
>>
>>67209343 #
No you didn't. You thought the three weapon options were different kits.

But I'll take your goalpost move.

Harlies have two stat lines with seven weapon options plus one grenade type.

SoS have two stat lines with three weapon options plus one grenade type
>>
>>67209551
Fine I was wrong, suck my peepee
>>
>>67208045
That's not bad, but consider that Nephrek doesn't benefit shooty units without assault weapons. Either change some gauss to tesla (not really advised unless you're mephrit) or lean more heavily on melee who will cross the board then charge
>>
>>67209646
You're that same fucking idiot from last thread, aren't you?
>>
>>67209694
no idea who do you have in mind.
>>
>>67209646
Tell us how upset you'll be if they don't get a load of stuff that isn't in 40K or a bunch of special shit that no other teams got.
>>
>>67209724
I'm not the kroot guy
>>
>>67209717

>>67189457
>>
>>67209746
Sure
>>
>>67209665
To follow up, the speed from Nephrek isn't worth the trade of not being able to shoot or charge when used. Personally I'd suggest go mephrit for shooting, or, more strongly, novokh and go mainly melee with just fire support. Novokh overlord with a voidscythe is a beast, and if you keep the lychguard nearby (and enough cp to resurrect the lych using the tactic), that overlord will NOT go down.
>>
>>67209747
As I said I am not the Kroot tard.
>>67209746
>>
>>67209807
So we have two tards that talk like children?

Summer as fuck.
>>
>>67209092
Since it's pretty obvious you don't play you can buy you SoS models to hot glue without them having rules, anon.
>>
>>67209854
I play but I am not happy with what I have
>>
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>>67209854
If I want to hot glue models, what type of varnish should I be using? Clean up seems to melt the paints.
>>
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>>67210340
Degenerate.
I'd think that any kind of varnish would work. Varnish twice, clean with a mini alcohol wipe.
>>
>>67209773
Okay, thanks for the advice. I see what you're saying now with nephrek, I think I'll go with the novokh stuff and more flayed ones
>>
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>>67208707
Damn, mine looks bootleg as hell compared to those.
>>
Alright, I'm going to order my second faction to start playing with friends. If I want to go Deathwatch, do I order the 30 dollar Deathwatch Kill Team box or do I order the 50 dollar Kill Team Mordelai set?
>>
>>67203812
That’s fairly neat at least. Necromunda has rules for genestealer cults but not the tyranids themselves right? I’ve read about something called inquisimumda with rules for all the factions as far as campaign goes, do you have any experience with it? Is it built on an old rule system or has it been updated.


>>67206043
Cheers anon I’ll keep that in mind, Never really a fan of tyrant guard aesthetically. Are the lictors good fun?

How wysiwyg is it anyway, I try and model all the appropriate options, but don’t do magnetising. Is generic fleshy gun arm good enough to count as potentially one of 3 guns at a store? What about custom stuff in that regard?

I enjoy converting a lot and think the tyranids would be real sweet for this.
>>
>>67207436
What makes resin so bad?
>>
>>67212830
The only thing the $50 box offers is physical tactic cards and the terrain. So if that is worth the extra $20, go for it.
>>
>>67214253
Don't have time to go into detail but it requires a lot of extra work, and citadel finecast is notorious for bubbles causing gaps in the models.
It's really not that bad if you know what you're doing but if you started with a lot of plastic its a painful switch.
>>
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Turns out they don't sell the starter kit anymore, my lgs has the Wall of Martyrs, should I pick it up of I want a board? It looks nice.
>>
>>67215944
Just get Arena. It has the most bang for your buck and as a bonus you get to play the best version of KT
>>
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>>67215944
Wall of Martyrs by itself isn't great but if you can scrounge up another bunker, a few more trench pieces, and a used Leman Russ to turn into a burnt-out husk, it makes for a really fun and thematic board.
A crashed Aquila Lander also makes for some really thematic terrain on that board too (sorry for the crappy pic).
>>
Another newb here, do Imperial Assassins have rules for KT? I think that would be super cool to field.
>>
>>67217240
They do not. With all the stuff they've been adding though I wouldn't be surprised if they get added in some capacity at one point, even as a gimmick 1-model team or something.
>>
>>67217677
A shame, I skimmed through the pdfs and it looks like you're right. We're getting an Inquisitor in the next White Dwarf though so there's hope.
>>
>>67205706
The amount of effort put into this to make it look like an official datasheet is staggering. That's some dedication to his fanwank 'tisms.
>>
>>67209885
Okay. You play but you don't know the rules and you don't know how minis are packaged/sold. Sure.
>>
>>67215944
Martyrs doesn't have great contents, it definitely needs adding to.

This has had 2 packs of trenches and three vehicles adding to it and it's pretty fun now.

When you're making your wrecked vehicles, look at some actual kill shots on real tanks. AT weapons don't do a lot of external damage.
>>
>>67210340
Gloss. The really thick stuff used on oil paintings.
>>
>>67207147
>>67207327
>>67202117
>>67205744
>>67201674
Do you exclusively play (or play against) DW and other low model count teams? Its a solid buff for sure. And I'm definitely not arguing that that anon's player should be able to take another Sorc, but multipsybolt also isn't as bad as you're making it out to be. You're going on like it immediately shifts TS to the top of tier list and it doesn't.
It still requires LOS and its kill rate is solid but not amazing. The effect on game balance would be about the same as adding a free warpflamer.
>>
>>67218303
Psybolt is the most dull and shitty mechanic in the entire game.
>oh it requires LoS just hide all your models from ever engaging lmao :"^^))))

Neither team has any play to make other than throwing some grunt to take the hit and then flip a coin whether it get removed. Its fucking boring.
>>
>>67218151
>I have to innately know how every single mini is packaged
k
>>
>>67218513
Anyone that actually plays knows how GW lists kits that can be built in different ways and the identical bodies is a massive clue.
>>
>>67218513
Post your team with a timestamp.
>>
>>67218410
Not him but how is that any different from shooting?
If you want to stop it, you either hide, counter with specific abilities that not everyone gets, or you kill the source unit. It's litterally no different.
>>
>>67218673
what for?
>>67218650
sure thing
>>
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>>67218702
whatever I will just post it to prove you wrong.
>>
>>67218934
fake
pic time and meta data do not match
>>
>>67213392
>Is generic fleshy gun arm good enough to count as potentially one of 3 guns at a store?
The gun arms aren't generic, they are very distinct.

You'll need to talk to your play group to see if they're okay with proxy weapons.

Fortunately - venom cannon and deathspitters is what you'll want on your warrirors, the others are simply inferior.
>>
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>>67218971
Retard
>>
I dont get why SoS dont have KT rules, they are a pretty thematic fit.
Small groups hunting down groups of psykers is kino
>>
>>67219062
Because GW hates us
>>
>>67219062
Because there are no groups of psykers to hunt down?
>>
>>67218698
You kidding? Shooting has plenty of depth from range, movement, cover, weapon types, armor penetration, damage, readying, tactics etc.
Psybolt is just "apply mortal wound to closest enemy" and that's it. There's zero choices or depth to it.
And its such a contrast to Commanders who have actually cool and interesting psychic powers.
>>
>>67219036
Please become a namefag so that we can filter you.
>>
>>67219494
nope, have fun with me.
>>
>>67219345
Not having their chosen enemy to fight sure as hell didn't stop the Grey Knights.
>>
>>67219036
again off bei 1 min
are you mentally alright?
>>
>>67217960
Eh. Probably 10 minutes with an Adobe Reader, another 10 in Photoshop. The KT pdfs are editable if you've got the fonts.
>>
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>>67206692
nids
>>
>>67219649
>a bunch of dumbass looking gaunts
>fun
>>
>>67208846
No, it's a standard Rubric Mobs + Sorcerer Boss setup. The only difference from Rubrics is that these guys trade inferno bolters for two force weapons.

I'd be fine with them, honestly. I'd be more worried if he took five Tzaangors with a brayhorn instead of two of these guys.

>>67208743
...it isn't obvious? Like, these weren't in Elites or White Dwarf, and they're laid out to fit on one page in a way that no other KT datasheet is.
>>
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>>67219667
mawstealers and lictors will never not be fun
>>
>>67219668
>it isn't obvious?
Not for stupid people.

Like the GW guy that gave someone the manlet captain datasheet thinking it was official.

Plenty of people don't keep an especially good eye on WD or the PDFs.

If you're going to make it look like that then just put a stamp that says unofficial or fanmade or something.
>>
Anyone got experience with Dark Eldar? Got a full compliment of all Kabalite options because I play them in 40k. Felt my roster is a bit lacking though, what units are worth mixing in and why? I mainly play against 1k Sons, Tau, Harleys, and Space Marines.
>>
>>67219563
GK are a real faction.

Talons aren't.
>>
>>67219571
It's almost like someone else is taking the pics and sending them to him.
>>
>>67219740
First decision - do any of the obsessions strike you as being particularly good? If so that narrows your unit choices down.

Otherwise everything has a use.
>>
>>67219726
>If you're going to make it look like that then just put a stamp that says unofficial or fanmade or something.
Yeah, that's fair.

Though I wouldn't put that much effort into making homebrew look fancy in the first place.
>>
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>>67219768
No long range penalty has been nice but I'm not sure if it's actually been all that effective in the long run, not sure if it's worth dropping for wyches or picking up some mandrakes instead. Annoyed they didn't add Scourges for that very reason...
>>
>>67219412
>range
So does Psybolt
>movement
A simple yes/no based on weapon, while you have to properly position your psyker to target who you want
>tactics
So does psybolt
>cover
So does psybolt
>AP & damage
..are only anything more than slightly more elaborate and time consuming coin flip if you have another choice.
And the choice between one gun or another, is the same choice a TS player makes when he takes his termie sorc vs something else. All Psybolt is, is just a different gun. One that gives mortal wounds on a successful hit and has a risk like overcharging. You make that choice to use it the same as you might choose a flamer to ignore hit rolls or a Melta to ignore saves.
Now if the entire KT had to use it, fine that would be boring, but do you also complain that is boring when you have more than 1 model with the same gun on a kill team? Because its literally no different.
>Commander
Agreed here. I wish there were more options like what Commanders have. But I also wish for more interesting and varied weapons. And more options in tactics. And units and everything. More options are great.
>>
>>67219974
Psybolt is just another gun.
Another gun that ignores the to hit penalty of long range.
And the to hit penalty of cover.
And the to hit penalty of flesh wounds.
And to hit penalties from enemy abilities.
And saves in general.
And toughness in general.
And lacks the ability to choose targets.
And doesn't use any of the stratagems that effect shooting.
Yeah, it's nothing like a gun.
>>
>>67220548
>Psybolt is just another gun.
>Another gun that ignores the to hit penalty of long range.
>And the to hit penalty of cover.
>And the to hit penalty of flesh wounds.
>And to hit penalties from enemy abilities.
So... like a flamer, then?

>And saves in general.
So... like a high-AP weapon, then?

>And toughness in general.
So... like a poisoned weapon, then?
>>
>>67220548
>Another gun that ignores the to hit penalty of long range.
>And the to hit penalty of cover.
>And the to hit penalty of flesh wounds.
>And to hit penalties from enemy abilities.
So do Flamers
>And doesn't use any of the stratagems that effect shooting.
An instead has access to, and is affected by a bunch of other tactics.
>And saves in general.
>And toughness in general.
Like all the other weapons that give mortal wounds.
Yes its not exactly like a single individual gun, but its still just another option. You still pick a psyker over a gunner for its different mechanics same as you pick a flamer dude over a plasma dude for its different mechanics.
Your argument was that multipsybolt is boring, but unless you also hate flamers and KTs with duplicate weapons your argument is hypocritical.
>>67220588
God damn it, beat me to it. Forgot to turn on auto-update. But also cbf rewriting.
>>
>>67220588
>>67220646
How can you say "guys psybolt is JUST three weapons in one" without realizing it's retarded.
>>
>>67220646
>psybolt is flamers
Fucking what? Flamers need to pick their target, they care about toughness, saves and all that jazz. Their niche is overwatch and deleting low T and Sv models.
Psybolt is just a simple mortal wound to closest target.
>>
>psybolt is like any other weapon lol
>even when it ignores every single part of shooting except drawing LoS and rolling injury dice, and its not even done in the fucking shooting phase
The levels of mental gymnastics going on are astounding.
>>
>>67205706
I don't get all the hate, custom datasheets are always fun + it's obviously pretty high quality. The major sticking point is the extra charge of Pysbolt but if you cut it to just be the melee dudes i.e. a Khorne Bezerker equivalent they look fine.
>>
>>67220588
Ah yes, it is identical to all the other 18" high-AP poisoned flamers in the game.

Oh wait.
>>
>>67221724
Yeah, that is exactly the sticking point.
>>
>>67221762
Still, theres a lot of hostility. My group has experimented with several custom sheets that even after group review ended up stonkingly overpowered/utterly worthless. Balance is kinda hard, but with some tinkering i'd happily play against custom datasheets.
>>
>>67221812
I'm not seeing any hate that isn't about the sorcer or the guy that just wants them so he can dual psybolt for less points.
>>
>>67220588
>>67220646
Not even the guy that was calling it bullshit, just trying to point out all the mechanics it doesn't interact with that shooting does. Usually ignoring any one of these mechanics is what differentiates a gun - instead, psybolt ignores ALL of them.
That being said, it trades that all for the new limitation of having to target the closest unit. Does that limitation have enough depth to make up for the depth removed from getting rid of the other limitations? Therein lies the point of disagreement.
>>
Sorry if this has been answered already, but what's the best way to represent an alpha legion kill team? Any list or roster that can be fun and varied?
I plan to convert GSC neophytes into cultists and primaris into marines. Knowing what weapons I want on my roster would really help the converting goalposts.
>>
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>>67221984
Same guy, in also 100% down to count them as anything fluffy
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>>67221984
I don’t understand the question. You can play normal CSM as alpha legion; they have rules, so what exactly is the problem you have?
If you want GSC to be cultists and primaries marines to be CSM, look at their appropriate datasheets and determine what loadouts you want yourself and convert from there.
Or you can just stop being a weirdo and get a normal CSM box to represent your CSM alpha legion
>>
>>67220762
>>67220797
Its refutation of the argument that "its boring because it eliminates some extra rolls which are little more than book keeping most of the time".
The entire schtick of mortal wound weapons and flamers is doing exactly that, but nobody reeeees about them.
Rolling 3 dice isn't somehow intrinsically more interesting than rolling 1. If you know you're facing MEQs and that you're using autohitting weapons, then you could pretty much reduce every shot you'll take that game to a single dice roll on a d100 (or d1000 or to whatever precision you require), x through y are flesh wounds, y through z are kills. Once you've picked your list, the chance of success is basically static and the extra dice rolls are just extra steps for their own sake.
So for weapons that do eliminate steps, the actually interesting part is choosing the right tool for the job in the first place and then playing the game such that its in the right place and at the right time. And there, a psyker is no different. You still need to know when taking and using a psyker is the better option. Should you take a Rogue Psyker over 2 Negavolts when facing GEQs? Hell no. What about if they have a mix of MEQ and GEQ? And once you're actually in game, you need to position your psyker properly so you aren't wasting your PB on those GEQs or overlapping fire with other units, or aren't fed chaff etc.
>>67221928
You still have LOS, you still have to make the roll, you still have the injury roll and its cover mod, you still have range and you also have Closest, Deny and Peril. It has fewer limitations, but not only one.
And thing is those limitations are nothing more than a convoluted dice roll most of the time - how often does the toughness and save of a unit change during a game? Not bloody often, so its the same chance every round. Sure tactics change things up but you still have weapons on the field and those tactics can still be used on them. Psybolt adds variety, doesn't take it away.
>>
>>67222367
>>67222367
That's fair, let me rephrase.

I've never played chaos anything, but this seems like a good way to start. What's a good, effective list for CSM in light of elites? Preferably cultist-heavy?
Based on that, I can set converting goals for myself.
>>
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>>67222729
As of Elites, a good generic starter list for CSM is likely to be something like:
-1 aspiring champion (plasma pistol/powerfist) - leader
-CSM gunner (plasma) - sniper
-CSM gunner (heavy bolter) - heavy
-berzerker champion (powerfist) - combat
-heavy stubber cultist x2
-fill the rest with generic cultists

As you play more and see if you like them, you'll want to expand a proper roster to adapt your team for the mission/opponent - some matchups will require a more marine-focused list, some will require dropping a marine to flood the board with more cultists.
>>
>>67222784
Fantastic, and saving that pic. Thanks anon! That's a good start and I imagine I'll figure the rest out through play and trial
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>>67222655
>how often does the toughness and save of a unit change during a game?
How often are their different toughnesses and saves on the table? Pretty often.

This requires both target selection and positioning (so that the right weapons are able to fire on the appropriate targets).
>>
>>67222655
Lol nice try, but I never claimed that it only had one limitation. I guess melee attacks are just another gun now too since you have to have LOS, pay attention to the injury roll and its cover mod, and play around the 1" range? The fact that you view the strength/toughness dynamic and saves as glorified bookkeeping says more about your mindset than I'd spend time on, and goes a long way towards explaining why 8th edition got as overly simplified as it did.
>>
As a Astra Militarum, what weapon do you think that a SWG Leader should carry?So that I can use the sargeant and tempestor as my melee dudes
>>
>>67223568
You optimally shouldnt have a sergant
>>
>>67223868
Why not? What do you recommend for a good core to any IG list?
>>
WHO THE FUCK DECIDED TO ADD CUSTODES TO KILL TEAM HOW DO YOU BEAT 9 2+ SAVE WOUNDS FUUUUCK
>>
>>67219571
>>67219757
Do you expect me to write the time ahead of sending and then time posting?
Because this is just goalposting for the sake of being cunts
>>
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>>67218183
While the set up looks great and is fluffy (I like your attention to detail on the tanks), the limited amount of hard LoS blocking cover and avenues of open ground are making me scream inside. Plenty of regular cover depending on the mission and deployment approaches, but I feel like it's just begging for sniper units and equipment with 'ignore cover' modifiers

Then again, I'm also used to dense city fight or Zone Mortalis style KT boards. If you don't have cover or solid walls on those, you've either fucked up big time or you've been CREED'ed
>>
>>67224436
I have all of the kill zones and an actual zone mortalis board. Some more open ones are nice for variety.

See >>67208707
>>
Bois I am going to GW tomorrow to get my chaos termies, what should I play them as?
I cannot decide on legion and I have to in order to know if I need to buy more paints or not.
>>
>>67224065
fuck off
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>>67224382
pic related
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>>67224686
thanks, now I am a faggot
>>
>>67224065
By not fighting them and going for objectives instead. They're severely undercosted but lose objective-based missions very easily.

That's really the reason why custodes could be considered a poor fit for KT is because they are a faction that forces all their opponents to avoid fighting because point-by-point they'd lose. In a skirmish WARgame.
>>
>>67224786
1. coming-out
2. post pic of peepee
3. ???
4. profit
>>
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>>67224065
Easy. By not tanking it with your face and playing their game. Throw chaff units at them, or if your army has them, something similarly tanky/distracting, and use the remainder of your forces to claim objectives. And if you happen to have a source of mortal wounds, it'll come in handy for slowing them down further. Custodes will NEVER have enough bodies or speed to handle many of the mission types, and of the few that do favor them you can still work around them if you play smart. Engaging the Custodes face to face is exactly what they want, because they're built like a brick house and hit like a freight train. But they can't be everywhere at once, and they aren't terribly fast either, so you can use that to your advantage.
>>
>Playing commander game
> A million poxwalkers and some deathguard guys vs a commander suit, 2 regular suits, two railfinders, and a recon drone.
>Mission is kill the enemy commander or break their team.
>idea is to trundle into effective range using poxwalkers as mobile cover and spam cloud of flies to protect leader.
>He deepstrikes in a crisis suit with 3 flamers on the left ontop a building and begins to burn poxwalkwers.
>My shoots all go into command suits.
>takes 2 wounds but it still has 2 left.
>outflank a flail fighter behind him.
>Next round, most of my team is fleshwounded. He kills 9 models.
>Decisive move a flail marine.
>He retreats ontop of a building, taking it from a 5 inches charge to a 10 inch.
>Uses neuroweb jammer on my closest blight launcher so he's hitting on 4s vs the out in the open leader.
>Next shooting phase he kills all my cloud of flies fodder and most of my shooting.
>Roll for break test, get a 12.

Holy shit fly is busted beyond all measure. I can see why arena and lvo rules dont let you use vertical terrain. The biggest problem with tau is their insane mobility and keep away tactics. The fact that he can shoot after retreating is just icing on the cake.
>>
>>67221748
>Ah yes, it is identical to all the other 18" high-AP poisoned flamers in the game.
Oh, you mean Chemcannons? They're AP-3 poisoned flamers. Only 8" range, but D6 hits into the bargain.
>>
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>>67224547
a-anyone?
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>>67225400
Black Legion?
For the specialist detatchment.
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>>67225540
>Specialist detachment
wut, you mean legion trait?
>>
>>67224786
I'm sure that isn't news for you.
>>
>>67225400
Grey gorgons. No paint needed.
>>
>>67224065
Bring lots of plasma-or-equivalent or cheap bodies to keep them busy while your team wins off of objectives.
>>
>>67225603
No.

Bringers of Dispair from Vigilus Ablaze.
A terminator focused specialist detatchment which manipulates morale.

Other than that, just run them as whatever you want, give them combi-plasmas and mark of slaanesh to shoot plasma twice and give them a 5+ FnP from a slaaneshi sorc.

Or do both, but the specialist detatchment is more focused on melee, where a 5+ FnP is still good.
>>
>>67225800
Are you in the wrong thread?
>>
I wonder why Daemons are even put in as a separate faction, they should have been an addition to chaos marines unless they still make it possible
>>
>>67192934
How do Tyranids fare in Kill Team? What about Genestealer Cult?
They’re the only two armies I have in any great number and was curious which would be the better to focus on for Kill Team.
>>
>>67196802
Good paint your shit or quit
>>
>>67226734
They're both good, not great but they can win games.
Id go with gsc because of the mad effective mining weapons and you can always bring a couple genestealers along
>>
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>>67226734
I've seen decent things from regular nids, GSC are a little tricky. With Nids, you can bury your opponent in Gaunts and still have points over for a few bigger bugs, go for a shooty list, go melee, bumrush them with Genestealers, etc. Between massed attacks from little guys and harder hits from the bigger guys, Nids have the flexibility to do a little bit of anything. Being able to ignore morale as long as you've got a synapse up also helps a lot. With GSC, you've got a lot of chaff and only a few real heavy hitters (literally and metaphorically, Abberants and special weapon cultists). They're not unworkable, but you'll need to be smart about playing GSC, since it's literally a team effort most of the time.
>>
>>67224039
Sounds boring but 4 plasma scions and 4 plasma guards and a tempestor.
You should have at least 2 flamers and 2 volley guns in your roster to swap out in certain matchups. If you're doing 125pts you can consider a sarge but priority should be a Vox Comm first.
>>
Is it better to go for high save or high invuln?
>>
Buddy got white dwarf early at a Barnes and nobles. Will keep you posted with demon rules. God speed
>>
>>67227332
bless
>>
>>67225335
Call me corrected anon, interesting example.
>>
Here they are demonfans and grey knights alike
https://imgur.com/a/0SOtjWh

All i know is im gonna talk to my opponent and be like hey can i bring my EC and demonettes because theyre all chaos but just not get to use ANY of the faction specific keywords since its just a "Chaos" kill team as oppsoed to heretic astartes / chaos demons
>>
>>67227930
You can do that but since you're not battleforged you get no command points at all.
>>
>>67228016
oh wow NONE at all? thats p buckwild
>>
>>67192934
>TQ
They'll give just each of the 4 basic troop choices

>ATQ
They will
>>
>>67227930
Exactly like I said. Lesser daemons only and they forgot to give them commanders
>>
>>67228033
Read the section that tells you that you generate command points. Only if you're battleforged.
>>
>>67192934
>TQ
Daemon Princes get excluded

>ATQ
New specialisms
>>
>>67228166
one right one wrong guess which one
>>
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>>67228033
>>
>>67227930
Well at least you can bring quite a few daemons, You can bring like 17 Demonettes, Plaguebearers or Bloodletters in a 125 point game or 14 in a 100 point game with points to spare to upgrade to a leader with at least one iconbearer or hornblower upgrade.
>>
>>67228043
>>67228166
FFS people, the article has been posted.

Also
>new specialisms
Of course they weren't going to get faction specific specialisms. Why would you even think that?
>>
>>67228183
Considering ive got 30 daemonettes from sigmar...NEat.... but on god id have loved to play emperors children with demons. I guess ill have to keep doing it as TK with Daemonette Tzaangors....
>>
>>67227930
Do you also have the blood raven rules?
>>
>>67228248
Nope, sorry, buddy only sent me the KT rules just gonna have to wait for spikeyleaks
>>
>>67228260
>spikeybits
Eeew not using Bell of Lost Testicles
>>
>>67227185
High invuln. KT's injury roll system heavily encourages people to bring as many multi-damage weapons as possible, which also tend to be high AP.
Thats in general though. There are times when a regular ol' high save is better.
>>
>>67227930
>Reality Blinks is 3CP
I think i'm going to be sick
>>
So general consensus is that we were right about daemons being shit and lazy??
>>
>>67228417
No, they got what most factions got in core. Why would you expect more than that?
>>
>>67228472
Because we're not treating them as 1 faction that got 4 units, we're treating them as 4 factions that got 1 unit each.
>>
>>67228472
>not disappointed
>reality blinks for 3! CP
>>
>>67228515
Why would you do that? It's fucking stupid.
>>
>>67228533
Bad compared to team box tactics, not so much compared to core book tactics.
>>
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>>67227930
How are they gonna be?
>>
>>67228515
>1 unit each
You mean like GK and Harlies?

But you didn't get one unit, you got 4. Specifically, you got all of the troop units. Like the core book factions.
>>
>>67228549
Why would you pair Tzeench and Khorne daemons its fucking stupid!
>>
>>67228565
eh I don't know... at least 1 box means one full KT with all options for those specific daemons
>>
Any sign of Eisenhorn rules?
>>
>>67228578
Split doesn't fuck your morale like it could have done.
>>
>>67228617
InB4 some poorfag crying that his onebox team isn't good.
>>
>>67228578
dumb models
>>
>>67228635
It doesn't look like it costs points either so thats 12 points for 5 models. Also psykers.
>>
>>67228659
well it should be at least mediocre, not outright bad if you ask me...
>>
>>67228602
Why would you have scions taking orders from a guardsmen (or vice versa), they don't even share a chain of command!

Daemonic animosity hasn't been a thing for ages and even when it existed it didn't stop you from mixing them.
>>
>>67228696
Why should ignoring 3/4 of the options available to you be at least mediocre? The faction is balanced as a whole.

Find another poorfag to trade models with.
>>
>>67228730
meh
>>
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>>67228730
>playing undivided
>>
>>67228472
>Why would you expect more than that?
Because we aren't living in a core meta.
>>
>>67228802
Kroot already set that precedent.
>>
>>67228787
>they should have balanced it taking into account my self imposed handicaps
>>
>>67228845
and they are garbo
>>
>>67228869
Exactly.
>>
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So are all the horrors psykers?
>>
>>67228911
"this model" = the model selected from this datasheet.
>>
>>67228911
8 pink horrors = 96pts
8 = 16 Blue Horrors
16 Blue Horrors = 16 psybolts a turn
>>
>>67228965
>>67228973
Or you could read the psychic phase rules.

GK are already a team of all psykers you know.
>>
>>67229005
>GK are already a team of all psykers you know.
GK don't cost 12 points for 5 modelsl.
>>
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>>67229045
>>67229030
What I'm getting at is that despite having 16 psykers on the board you'll only ever manifest 1 bolt a turn. GK, and TS players that pay the extra points for a termie sorc, get the absolute luxury of 2 per turn, but at that point I'd really like to introduce the commander powers list as a much more fun houserule.
>>
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>>67227930
Bloodletters seem very solid for their cost, I'm quite happy with how annoying horrors are going to be to remove, too. I'd consider giving Daemons a whirl if they were a complete faction with commander options.
As far as basic units go the only thing that bugs me is that none of them can take zealot.
>>
>>67228948
Does this include the blues and brimstones though?
>>
>>67229513
Why wouldn't it?
>>
>>67227930
So based on an early look how well do you think the individual god teams will be?
>>
>>67229513
If it only applies to some of the models on the sheet, what tells you which models it applies to?
>>
>>67229737
Much worse than playing the faction properly, exactly like you'd expecy.
>>
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>>67229737
All bloodletters honestly seems pretty fun and doable. Otherwise I don't think any of the others quite pack the same punch alone, though horrors-only is probably not bad either. A combination of a few horrors for psybolts backed up by a horde of bloodletters will likely be the go-to list for Daemons, IMO.

>>67229747
See the Rubric datasheet for how that's done. If it only applies to a particular variant from a datasheet, it will specifically name that variant under the datasheets psyker rules.
>>
>>67230000
The question was rhetorical.
>>
>>67230061
Ah, didn't read the comment chain.
>>
new thread
>>67230153
>>67230153
>>
>>67227930
>>67228632
Please
>>
>>67223298
As does using a psyker properly. An example I used in that post.
>>67223468
>I never claimed that it only had one limitation.
>instead, psybolt ignores ALL of them ... trades that all for the new limitation of having to target the closest unit.

> I guess melee artacks are just another gun now
Given they have effectively the same mechanics, essentially yes. They're essentially range 0 guns with slightly different limitations. There are individual guns that are more different in their mechanics than the average gun is to the average melee weapon.
>The fact that you view the strength/toughness dynamic and saves as glorified bookkeeping
They are after weapon and target selection. S vs T is important and shouldn't be simplified out, but everything relevant to them happens either when picking your list or targeting. Both of which you still do with psykers.



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