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Welcome Daemons to Kill Team Edition

Previous thread: >>67082489

>News
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/07/04/white-dwarf-preview-julygw-homepage-post-3fw-homepage-post-3/

>Downloads; Rules Errata and FAQs:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/downloads/
https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

>Rules & Files
https://mega.nz/#F!QGZWyKIR!tdB0Xi0bry5c1mdKZsgxGw

>Regularly updated faction tactics pdf
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/256066/warhammer-40000-kill-team/files

>Comprehensive Mission Selector
https://mega.nz/#F!y7YCTQyY!p3pIGNVx-7lYp6iLnyRtgA

>Homebrew Missions
https://pastebin.com/yB56vpHP

>$50 or under starting Kill Teams
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgXd4NjJOis

>TQ
What do you think about the addition of Daemons to Kill Team? How do you think they will match up against other factions? Do you have any spicy predictions regarding their inclusion in Kill Team?
>Alt TQ
Grey Knight players, are you ready to finally send some Daemons screaming back to the warp?
>>
>>67147422
>plaguebearers in KT
That's it. I'm fucking done.
>>
>>67147512
What about plaguebearers screams "this is bullshit" to you in a Kill Team context?
>>
>>67147422
>TQ
I am worried they'll be as half assed as Kroot.
That they'll be boring as fuck, not function as an independent team and/or not be able to be added to other factions that they should be added to.
Hopefully its an unfounded concern and its actually cool. When does the issue actually come out?
>>
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>>67147422
>TQ
The more the merrier, and whilst people are worried about how a kill team of daemons even the fuck works, who cares! You could fluff it anyways ya damn well please.
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Any good tips/suggestion for both rooster and list against GeQ/MeQ and Hordes for the Skitarii guy from the last thread?

He need to be motivated,i do not know the faction so well to feel to suggest,apart from the big robbot and the plasma spam.
>>
>>67147684
>MEQs
Plasma spam and taser goad vanguards and sicarians. Always run a vanguard into melee with the sicarian to reduce toughness so the taser goad deletes them.
>>
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>>67147684
I don't play Skitarii nor have I played against them so take this with a massive grain of salt, but I took a look at all the stuff the have available and here's a quick WIP matched play roster I put together. Could probably use some work but it should be a decent starting point at least.
1. plasma vanguard (heavy)
2. plasma vanguard
3. plasma vanguard
4. plasma ranger (sniper)
5. plasma ranger
6. plasma ranger
7. infiltrator princeps (powersword/carbine) (zealot/combat to taste)
8. ruststalker princeps (leader)
9. vanguard alpha (powersword/arc pistol) (leader)
10. ranger (omnispex) (comms)
11. UR-025
12. transarq ranger (sniper)
13. fulgurite electro-priest (combat)
14. fulgurite electro-priest (zealot)
15. fulgurite electro-priest
16. fulgurite electro-priest
17. vanguard
18. vanguard
19. tech-priest engiseer (level 3 strategist [resourceful > advisor > counter-strategist)
20. tech-priest dominus (eradication array) (level 1 strategist [resourceful])
>>
Has anyone played with/against Wraith units? I am tempted to buy a box of them but i cant figure out if they are strong or not. I feel like D-Scythes and Ghost Axes are better pair of weapons choices for them.
>>
I've got my first game of KT on Wednesday. I'll be playing Servants of the Abyss and I'm not sure what my opponent will be playing. What should I know in terms of having a good time/not sucking?
>>
I'm gonna go into my GW this week and book to learn to play Kill team properly. Ya think its best advised i bring my own kill team so i can learn how they'll play or just use whatever the store boys throw at me?
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>>67148447
your CSM leader or commander are more durable than most the equivalent from other factions thanks to "Expendable Minions".

Even if you do not want to use one or both of them, a normal CSM isn't terrible either if you position him in the center to provide the "Servants of the Abyss" ability for your GEQs.

Negavolt Cultists are really cheap for the defense and offense they bring to the table.

The psyker is IMO a trap, but could be fun for the lulz if you play suicide bomber with him.
>>
>>67148620
I won't be playing with commander, mostly because I won't have him painted in time and I also want to keep complexity down.

Why is the psyker a trap? He's one of the dudes I'm most excited about using.

Is it a problem if I only bring 7 guardsmen to the table? Just because I won't have more than that painted.
>>
>>67148447

1/2

Read the core book, read the quick reference docs in back of core and in boardgamegeek. Learn the differences from the game ur used to. (like KT objective control is within 2")

Command Points swing games. Learn the generic ones like Decisive _____ & Tactical Reroll.

1 Leader, 3 lvl1 Specialists, rest infantry. Pick the specialists based on who needs the always in lvl1 abikity and a bit based on who would want to soend your prexious CP to use their lvl1 acticated ability to suddenly swing things in your favor.

Psychers delete things from the table before combat. Use them, keep them safe.

Your marines are few and if they can't bring plasma, they mostly stand in the way of thinga.

Traitor Guardsmen are your bulk GEQs, they hold objectices and hold open doors.

I think anons get a lot of work out of their beastmen, honestly.Combat makes then wilder in melee, and Zealot makes another one better at charging enemy leader/special/objectice.

Negavolts do work if you roll well.

Your Leader is the single most important piece. Only certain models can be a leader, but you don't want to build glass cannon leader. He shouldn't be running out trying to do everything--he's too valuable as a CP fountain. He's not your Queen, he's your King. Protect him.
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>>67148447
>>67148809

2/2


Cover rules are weird and incredibly important in KT:

1) Can I shoot: If any spikey bit can see any spikey bit, yes.

2) Is it harder for me to hit him? If any shooter spikey bit can see the entire Main Body of the target, no. If not, you have -1 to hit that doesn't stack. You're either obscured or you're not: one foor behind a piece of terrain, or a low wall and 13 guys are all the same to the hit roll.

3) Is it harder for me to hurt him? If the answer to #2 was that he is Obscured AND he's within 1" of the obscuring model or piece of terrain, then you would also have -1 to take him Out of Action when his wounds run out. i.e. he would only die on 5/6 instead of 4/5/6. This also applies to psybolt, so learn it.

There are lots of other modifiers, but those are the ones ppl fuck up, and it's all on the aforementioned quick reference sheets.

Ohh, both to print shit out and use a Command Roster with 20 dudes, and datacards for each guy or flipping thru to find model+gwar+specialism+etc. stats will annoy everyone present.

Good luck, anon and remember: your marines have shit guns!
>>
>>67148610
If you can get away with getting a demo game without using your own models, I'd say go for it. Ideally it's a good idea to get a sense for the game before committing to building up your models. It's always a shame to hear about people getting discouraged because they built all their dudes, only to find out they're just not very good in KT.
>>
Stacking plasma has to be the dullest shit desu
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>>67148447
>>67148809
>>67148817

3/2

Also, this is all assuming you guys are getting together for a friendly game on a random kill zone. If your friend is bringing a tournament army that's easily googleable, or a bunch of crazy elite shit like terminators against you, it's not you that lost, it's the army.

Servants didn't get Elite-ified yet and are technically onky a pkaytest army, so you're starting at a bit of a disadvantage.

Hopefully that'll xhanfe soon if Servants gets this week's expanaion models as preset specilists a la the BSF heroes, but onky time will tell!

(also check nearly the end of the last thread for some reminders about how Out of Actiin rolls work and why mtui-wound weapons are more importanter than mtuiattack weapons)
>>
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>>67148790

Bring unpainted GEQs. They important to many missions. The 20man roster is like a sideboard from a ccg that you use before you see your opponents' deck. You get to read the mission, know how many point it is (do the 100pt ones in the core book for now) and know what faction your opponent is. Then, you guess what's good to bring for this jission against his fsction and go from there.

Lots of objectives? Bring lots of GEQs. Melee fight mission? Bring more beastmen and let the psyker delete stuff as they come toward you. Etc.

And you guys should roll for missions randomly using the table on page 203.
>>
>>67148610

I would borrow as many different armies as possible, and play against as many different ones as possible. You want to find a fsction you're reakly into before you invest the money, time, and headspace to turn them into Your Dudes.
>>
>>67148908
>>67148869
>>67148817
>>67148809
Thanks for the advice anon. Seems like there is a lot to remember to start with! Would it be a bad idea to only take all the guardsmen and the two space marines in my first game to cut down on the amount of special rules I need to remember? 14 guardsmen and two black legionnaires is bang on 100 points. Is that large amount of bodies versatile enough to deal with most missions?

Is a legionnaire or a guard sergeant typically a better choice for leader?
>>
Got the occult scarab termies, are rubric marines the only other thing I want? Or are tzaangors worth and I should wait for the SC box
>>
>>67148819
>>67148927
Well the kicker is i've already got the units, i've been painting for a year now i just don't know how to play the damn game, i got an Admech KT all sort of ready to go
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>>67147655
Around this oncoming Saturday, I think. Could be next Monday.
Only a week to wait regardless for daemons.
>>
>>67149294
I would not recommend it. The space marines have only boltguns and most of the guardsmen have lasguns. Both are pretty damn awful for killing even GEQs.
Negavolt cultists and a zealot beastman are your main killing power so absolutely take those.
>>
>>67149313
Scarab Occult are the least important part of TS.
Tzaangors and Rubrics are what the faction is about.
>>
I wanted to check this, very noob question so forgive me for that.
With the Injury roll, which player rolls it? Is it the player whose model was the target, or is it the attacker that rolls for Injury?
>>
>>67149701
Attacker.
Also keep in mind that only the damage of the weapon matters for injury roll. Even if you deal 5 wounds that he is unable to save, you still just roll a single dice for a 1 damage weapon.
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>>67149426
If it were me, I'd probably make up some excuse I couldn't bring said minis on this occasion and ask for a demo with in-store models. That way you at least get to experience another faction, since if you do start playing you'll be stuck with Skitarii unless you want to invest more time/money.
>>
>>67147512

>Where did the Death Guard touch you, anon? Are you okay? Did they hurt you?
>>
>>67147512
Did you manage to kill anything?
>>
>TQ
I'm expecting another half baked list like kroot which no one will use.
>>
>>67148817
>1) Can I shoot: If any spikey bit can see any spikey bit, yes.
Spike is not a valid target, that's waacfag territory.
If you can't see shit like hand, leg, head then you can't shoot
>>
>>67148869
What are these or where can I get the heads?
>>
>>67151347
Nvm, I'm dumb.
>>
>everyone complains that Tau are utter bullshit
>smash them every time regardless of my team
Is this what it feels like to be an Arenachad? What is your excuse for playing non-arena garbage?
>>
>>67151101
Spike is a valid target, it just doesn't count for causing a target to be obscured.
Anything else is a houserule.
>Inb4 only waacfags would insist
As long as everyone uses the same targeting criteria it makes no difference, so why institute a houserule to muddy the waters when literally any idiot can understand the rules as written and its how its done during events?
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>>67151742
>house rule
>muddy the waters
It's literally said in the Killteam rulebook
>>
>>67151972
The rules for being in cover and being a valid target for shooting are not the same and you are wrong.
>>
>>67152042
shooting antenna and saying you wounded my model is dumb and I don't agree
>>
>>67149656
Not even having a gunner or two or maybe the sorcerer?
Really like the models
>>
Do people actually use the post-battle casualty roll and experience bullshit? How the hell can you play a balanced match or even trust other peoples stats unless there was a central database verified by a third party.
>>
>>67151972
The rule for ignoring aerials and weapons and such sticking out and only considering limbs and head is only for checking obscurity. That is not the same as checking for visibility.
>>67152072
You might disagree, but you're still wrong by the rules. And playing it otherwise is still a houserule.
If it helps you reconcile it consider the following
1) The game is an abstraction. Just as they don't actually take turns shooting at each other, they also don't stand perfectly still behind that pillar that their rifle is poking around (from which you also can draw LOS for shooting back)
2) Concealment is not cover. In universe these weapons are often ridiculously powerful. The aerial sticking over the wall might not tell you exactly where the enemy is, and the wall might deflect enough to turn a hit into a miss or a sure kill into a flesh wound but it still gives you a decent idea where to shoot.
And if thats still not enough
3) There are plenty of other just as arbitrary rules, its part of the game system. Just deal with it. Knights don't really travel in L shapes either.
>>67152130
Experience is only for campaign play, not just random matches.
Given you're going to be playing with the same people over the course of the campaign, you can enforce some measure of honesty by just requiring that the rolls be done in front of the opponent at the end of the game.
But are you also rigorously checking your opponent's datacards, roster and list before each and every game? Exp gain is not particularly impactful anyway, and definitely not compared to what they could do by cheating there. At some point you're just going to have to take their word for it.
>>
>>67149313
The SC box is actually kind of naff for Killteam because it has the 40K Tzaangors when you want the AoS ones. Autopistols are pretty much worthless so you might as well go full melee and get that -1AP.
>>
>>67149778
Yep, knew that one.
I was reading through and found 'controlling player' to be fairly nebulous, as it could have been the player controlling the attacker or the target.
I'm heartbroken I can't spend a command point to make the attacker reroll the injury if they out of action my dudes.
>>
>Custards KT
>can literally be 2 models
wew
>>
>>67151512
I'm upset at never winning a single game. After learning from my mistakes, covering all quarters just to have the dice screw me over last time... I'm feeling Arena may make things somewhat more balanced.
I can take a loss, though getting stomped every time I've played is annoying and after yesterday's loss I'm fed up. I'll try one more game, though I'm in enough despair that I'm feeling like I'm just shit at tabletop in general right now.
>>
>>67153145
It also shows how generously to weapons KT sides with, compared to armour.
You can spam Plasmaguns on Guardsmen and have stuff left over, though if you want some tanky termies that even then can get BTFO'd by a melta/plasma... Nah, you get three max.
It grates at me as I'm a player whose style prefers some tanky units.
Yes, I know DG are tanky and have offence too, though most people throw mainly poxwalkers and around 4 plague marines.
>>
>>67153215
What do you play, anon?
>>
>>67153282
I want a tanky faction as well but I don't like Nurgle
>>
Wait a sec, why exactly are havocs not allowed in elites?
>>
>>67153607
Ask GW
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>>67153739
why are there no raptors in elites?
>>
>>67153806
Ask GW
>>
Reminder that if you claim your dice are the only reason you lose games:
1. It's probably not
2. You can probably play or list build better
3. Your faction may not be the most viable one to play

I could probably think of more, but this is a good start
>>
>>67153862
why is there no x in elites?
>>
>>67153957
Ask X
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>>67153957
Why is X not in Y?
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>>67154003
Yes?
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>>67154043
Ah fuck that was better.
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>>67153009
Could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the 40k Tzaangors are just the AoS ones with an upgrade sprue.
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>>67153295
Tyranids atm.
I moved to them from Skitarii as I lost every game with those and admittedly I didn't gel well with their Canticles or really use much of their Tactics, so I made the swap.
I was able in yesterday's game to bog some of the enemy down in melee, though he was playing Admech and charged Sicarians in Turn 1, insta-killing my Combat Purestrain.
I blasted their Plasma-caliver Sniper with my Venom Cannon Warrior Heavy, we were both obscured though I only managed to flesh wound him, even rolling for 2 damage, thus getting 2d6 for the Injury roll on him. Had a command point, though this was before melee versus the Sicarians and getting shot in return, so I knew I'd need one point to save my ass. Luckily I kept it as my Heavy was shot and I managed to reroll their save to keep them in the game.
Admech were mostly posed right to the edge of a building roof, looking over to fire whilst counting as obscured as the ledge was up to their chests/diaphram areas. This meant I couldn't really charge those Skitarii as nowhere to really place my models, luckily I had some shooting and a Comms Warrior otherwise I'd be more screwed than I already was.
The Sicarians absolutely curbstomped my Purestrains, at the end after starting with 8 various tyranids, I had a Lictor left at 1 wound and a Shaken termagent left. Decided to concede at end of Turn 3 as I was only gonna get tabled as by that point I had a firing line of Skitarii obscured on't roof lining up my 1 wound Lictor.
>>
>>67151512
>he limits himself to a meager 12 or so missions out of the 100+ available
Just as bad as only playing the core book missions desu.
>>
>>67153320
The main issue I have is that there are tanky choices, though they're overcosted when you compare them to units that can take high S, AP or D weapons.
As an example, the Pathfinder Gunner with Railrifle is 12pts. That has s6, -4ap (so even TEQ save on a 6+, any MEQ or less get no save) and D3dmg, so even rolling injury can get extra dice.
Blightlord Terminators even then are wounded 3+ from it, armour save is 6+ and if the weapon rolls a 2 or 3 for damage, they're straight to injury roll with that many dice.
Those Termies are 40pts, nearly 4x the cost. Yes, this doesn't consider it's offensive output and the pathfinder's defence, though you do pay expecting the pathfinder to damage and you'd get a blightlord over a plaguemarine mainly for it to tank hits, though it just doesn't when faced with a weapon a third of the price of what you shell out.
>>
>>67154286
That's correct. The 40k ones are the same though with the option for boltpistols and chainswords.
>>
>>67154467
Regular terminators have a 5+ invuln and blightlords have a 4+ invuln and disgustingly resilient on top of that anon. Under ideal circumstances for the tau, that railfinder is looking at about a 1 in 3 chance to take out a blightlord, and that's with a tactical re-roll.
>>
>>67154551
>1 in 3 chance to kill something that costs 3 times as much as you
>These are apparently unfavourable odds
>>
>>67155123
That's under the best possible circumstances, having a sniper, popping their level 1 tactic, being buffed by a comms specialist, being at close range and unobscured, and spending a command point to re-roll a failed wound roll.
Hitting on 2's with re-roll 1's, wounding on 3's with a re-roll and still only getting 1 in 3 odds to actually take the blightlord out is pretty damn fantastically tanky by the standards of KT.

Under "average" conditions (regular joe railfinder, at short range, target obscured) you're looking at about 1 in 11 odds to actually kill a blightlord in a shooting sequence.
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>>67153607
>Wait a sec, why exactly are havocs not allowed in elites?
Same reason that there are no devestators.
>>
>>67153215
>I'm upset at never winning a single game.
Out of how many games?
>>
>>67152042
>the rules say this
>>no they don't
>I don't agree
You're a fucking idiot. House rule it if you want but the rules are crystal clear.
>>
>>67151101
>Play using my houserules or you're a waacfag
That would be classic TFG behaviour.
>>
>>67155723
??
The rules are clear that spikes dont count for cover but do count for targeting with an attack.
>>
>>67155713
Hm... I've played 7 games so far.
Played Rampage yesterday, Terror Tactics twice, Disrupt Supply Lines once, Feint once, Sweep and Clear once.
I did play Assassinate once as Harlies and won that one, though it was such a shitty unfun game I never touched them again.
>>
What do we expect about the addition of the heretic called Eisenhorn in the new White Dwarf?
His 40k datasheet allows him to summon a demon host. If we get 2 datasheets, we could get more? Right? Right?!
Please tell me we get more than just a new Commander for the Guards.
>>
>>67155732
that friendly guy?
>>
>>67155893
I'm expecting him to be a "preview" for the Inquisition faction we've been hearing about for months - like that Kroot merc from BSF who had both the TAU EMPIRE and KROOT faction keywords so he could be used for either, except, y'know, with appropriate existing Imperial faction keywords + INQUISITION.
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Can I play her level 4 Leadership for 20pts?
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>>67154328
Or he limits himself to a game mode with actual good mechanics and thought put into it aside "ready, shoot, ready."
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>>67155968
>that friendly guy?
No.

>>67155723
sorry, should have been directed to: >>67151972
>>
>>67155881
Do you really expect to be winning games against experienced players after only seven games?
>>
>>67156961
>No.
That fantastic gentleman?
>>
So what is the best purchase for Ork elites?
Ork Warboss Grukk's Boss Mob for Nobz and Meganob box?
Are Flash Gitz even worth taking since they have no kulturs?
I love Ork aesthetic and lore beyond everything but I fucking loathe horde gameplay which GW pushes like fucking cunts.
Are they viable non-hodrde? (As in tons of boyz)
>>
>>67156987
Except, I play once a fortnight against my best friend. We started 40k at the same time and moved to Kill Team, starting that at the same time.
As far as I can tell, the only times my friend has played Kill Team and other minis games are when he comes around mine for gaming weekends.
Like I mentioned upthread, I can take a loss, though I expected things to be a little more evenly favoured, it's not even the losing... It's getting near tabled and doing only minimal casualties every game so it's not even a close loss each time that is making me despair.
Each time I've learned more, changed tactics and tweaked my mustering choices, learned more on tactics, tried to understand my own weaknesses (I am awful for getting bait and switched, though slowly I am understanding this and acting to think ahead to fall for it less)...
Yesterday I tried to make more use when using terrain to make sure there was more line of sight blocking pieces to make things more interesting, though my friend just parked his Skitarii on a roof to shoot and pincer crabbed his Sicarians on each alley to the left and right of the building, so I couldn't move much with my tyranids outside of some charges into the Sicarians to get butchered and then some obscured shooting from my shooty tyranids at the also obscured Skitarii.
I know it's not a ton of games, though they are spread across the past few months and it's made me disheartened after I put all the effort into painting my roster of 20 tyranids, not just in this game though I'm mugging myself thinking I'm just bad at minis in general now.
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>>67156393
Seems super cheap, I'd say no and she's Level One for her Specialism.
>>
>>67157264
It sounds like your friend outplayed you. Maybe spend some time after games to talk about what happened in game and try to talk out loud why you did what you did. That can help you start to understand where you went wrong and what you can do better next time
>>
what's an all primaris kill team geared to against orks and/or nids gonna look like? I'm picture just a few intercessors and maybe a combat reiver sergeant, it's not like there's a ton of options
>>
>>67157735
You're right I should.
I did have little post-game debriefings when we first played Bighammer and we tended to do it when playing AoS, though in Kill Team I've been too dismayed to say much once play was done.
Yesterday after the game he just apologised and said maybe we should just go back to AoS and that my Skaven will surely win.
It's not the winning/losing (also as an aside he feels my Skaven win all the time, though it was 50/50 until the last two games I won in a row then we went to Kill Team) though, it's more that it feels like when we play KT I just have no choice but to lose and get stomped too, which means I'm playing crap. It wasn't even losing yesterday which has left me in this rut, it's that I worked on bettering my play, thought my decisions through, played the best with what I had... Then got my shit absolutely wrecked and shoved in.
I thought hard on what I could have done differently, where exactly I screwed up, me as attacking on Rampage was what messed up my mission chances, though I couldn't think of what I could have done to stop getting all my tyranids curbed.
I even did a strategy of advancing to an inch within a Sicarian to deny them the charge at one point and stop anyone firing at them, then a second one just charged that tyranid and killed it.
Now I feel like my friend is just going to put on kid gloves playing me.
>>
So am I reading this right? That if you fallback a model out of combat during the movement phase when you have initiative, your opponent can't charge you with any of the models you fellback from? If I'm reading pg23 right under Fallback is says that if you started the movement phase within 1" of an enemy model you can ONLY stand around with your dick in your hands, or fallback yourself?
I'm finding mixed answers online, everything from NO your opponent can still charge you if you fell back before they got to move, to YES the models you fellback from cannot charge you, to your model becomes immune to charges from any and all models for that phase. From fallback is literally useless and has no point aside from hoping your opponent fails their 6" charge roll, to fallback is overpowered and unfair because you can't re-charge until next turn.
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>>67156637
If your non-arena games all boil down to "ready, shoot, ready" you're likely not playing with sufficient terrain and not using the full scope of the non-arena missions available. There are tons of missions that by their nature force movement, and playing with sufficiently terrain-dense boards should also be forcing shooting factions to move regularly to get line of sight.
>>
>>67158167
Well with kill team it's important not only to make the right decisions in game, but also to make the right decisions out of game when it comes to building your roster.

Personally I know dick all about tyranids or skitari(ad mech?) so I can't really offer any specific advice. Not knowing your roster I'd say make sure you understand in the general sense what kind of models typically show up for each faction keyword. With that, and also the current mission, in mind build your team but know also that your opponent has the same information and is building to counter you. So depending on the units available to your faction, and in your roster, it may be advantageous to be unpredictable.
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>>67154328
>100+ available
from where? and if you're talking about homebrew shit how are there not 100+ homebrewed arena missions?
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>>67158248
A model can only fall back if they weren't successfully charged that turn. If a model falls back, it cannot shoot its guns unless it has the FLY keyword. If a model fell back from one of your models and you haven't taken your movement yet, you can either stand there (in which case, you can fire your guns if you have any because you didn't make a fallback move) or you can make your own fallback move, hopefully getting into a good position for a charge the next turn. If you're going 2nd in the movement phase, you can absolutely have another model that wasn't already in combat charge the model that fell back. This is why it's sometimes a good idea to "leap frog" your charges (have one guy charge turn 1 while the 2nd guy sets up to charge next turn) so you force enemy gunners into a situation in which they never have an opportunity to fire beyond the first round, assuming they survive.
Unless you're white scars or kraken, in which case you can charge even if you were within 1" of an enemy model at the start of the movement phase.
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>>67158248
This is where shit gets nebulous. A model can't move within 1 inch of another model, unless it Charges.
It is correct a model cannot charge one that moved to within 1 inch from them, though in that case the only way that happens is if that stuck model was charged itself.
If a model falls back, it also cannot shoot that turn, unless the model has Fly, in that case it can shoot if it falls back.
Hive Fleet Kraken has a sub-faction rule they would be allowed to recharge if they started in melee and their opponent Fell Back before their own Movement Phase.
As in melee a model starts within an inch of yours, you can either stay still or fall back. You cannot make a normal move, advance or recharge the falling back model. Also the model falling back counts that as their move, so no they cannot recharge you that turn as they moved already.
Models that fall back are not immune to all charging, they are just immune to the model they fled from recharging them, unless it's a Kraken Tyranid.
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>>67158718
>>67158548
Gotcha. Specifically I found myself charged by a fucking berserker, managed to survive the first turn of combat and tried to fallback at the top of the next turn. My opponent claimed that he could simply re-charge me with the same exact berserker because he was no longer within 1" of an enemy(since I had fallen back 6") and he claimed that since HE was not falling back, the text on pg23 under Fallback didn't apply to him, only to me.
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>>67158498
There are currently 116 official missions available spread between all the books, killzones, starter packs, and expansions. You can find the comprehensive mission selector in the OP alongside scans of all the starter set/killzone missions which is up-to-date with everything up to and including everything added with the Elites expansion.
You'll find that there's a surprising variety of unique and fun missions that differ from the fairly stock-standard offerings in the core book or Arena (no offense to the Arena missions, they're well-designed for competitive play, but most of them are fairly formulaic in nature).

If you want to expand your mission pool further while sticking to the Arena formula, I'd highly recommend downloading the Adepticon mission pack. It has rules for both players setting up terrain, uses the secondary objective system from Arena, and tends to be the go-to for tournament play. Variable terrain patterns and being able to take advantage of reserves makes it play much more dynamically than Arena IMO.
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>>67158462
As a note, before yesterday I was playing against T'au. My friend started Admech purely as Tau were boring him and he was bored of winning, atop of wanting to paint something new.
I'm not monolisting, I do have a mix of things in my roster of 20.
The Lictor performed well, I'd like to use them more... Everything else got butchered and my Venom Cannon Heavy Warrior just flesh wounded the plasma caliver sniper... Big intimidating gun, rolling heavy dakka... impacted like a damp squib due to crud injury rolling (on multiple dice no less).
I screwed up with the combat Purestrain though due to movement. Should have metabolic overdrived it and charged the nearest thing. Though the Sicarians minced the other two Purestrains I deployed for the mission anyway, so I doubt it could have done much, even with acid maw, toxin sacs and it's specialty.
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>>67158834
Nah, that guy was cheating. The Zerker started the movement phase within an inch of your dude so it would have to stay stationary or make it's own fall back (which it should do, either to get obscured or put itself in a good position to recharge the next turn).
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>>67158834
>When you pick a model to move, if that model started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, it cannot make a normal move. Instead, it can either remain stationary or Fall Back.
The rules specifically state right there it applies for any model that starts within an inch of another when the Movement Phase starts. As they're in melee, this means they'll either need to stay still or fall back after your own model.
>>
What is the standard point size for this game?
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>>67158834
When you pick a model to move, if that model started the Movement phase within 1" of an enemy model, it cannot make a normal move. Instead, it can either remain stationary or Fall Back.
The rules here state it's for models within an inch of an enemy one at the start of the movement phase, which a pair in melee would be, thus applying to the pair, not just one.
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>>67159024
It depends on the mission, though the standard is usually 100pts if the mission does not say otherwise.
The other mission sizes are 125pts in Elites and there's a few 200pt missions now too.
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>>67159024
100 but sometimes it's 125 or 200.
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>>67158167
All of that is hard. One thing I learned to do was to stop looking at my win/loss record to determine how good I'm doing. Instead, I try to compare how I'm currently playing to how I used to be playing.

I view competitive games (or games where you play against another person) like Kill Team as a journey. You start off as a novice, but over time and with practice, you hone yourself to become much more competent at the game. That doesn't mean you'll always win (for one reason or another), but it means that you've improved yourself and become better at what you've been practicing (in this case Kill Team).
This also assumes you don't define your self worth over how well you do. Side note: if anyone is like that, it's a GAME and you should be having fun. If you can't, then you should probably play something else.
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>>67158167
I forgot one thing in >>67159285

Try swapping armies with your friend and play some games. That way you can see someone else pilot them and see what they do with them. That would give you a different perspective on how your guys play and what they can do.

It also lets you learn how your friend's army plays. You can see what they're good at and what they're not so good at so when you trade back, you can try to leverage your strengths again their weaknesses.

If you want to listen to the video I stole this from, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dot4BRStCD0&ab_channel=TabletopMinions
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>>67158834
They were either a fucking moron or a fucking cheater. It sounds like someone I wouldn't want to play with
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>>67159285
That's true.
I suppose doing bad and then coming here to get told in the past, 'lulno you're just bad, git gud' in a toxic environment did a real number on my own thoughts on how competent a player I am.
Thing is, I'm not seeing any improvement in my play and I'm now starting to think I'm no good playing in general in other games. I've wanted to dip my toes into Malifaux, now I don't feel confident I'll ever win playing that and I'll get stomped playing that every time too.
I suppose I got my hopes up. After figuring with my roster to choose from this weekend may be different and then feeling nice and productive painting my models in time for the game and getting near tabled again...
Maybe I do need to just stop playing this game, though after investing my real hobby monies into this team, it feels bad to just stop playing them as I feel I suck at the game.
It just all now partially feels like such a waste of money and also my confidence is low to the point I feel like I'm wasting my money and time continuing the hobby all around as a whole. I don't even want to stomp my mate in return, my favourite times in this hobby is when the games have been down to the wire, anyone's game and a neat play on the final whistle grabbed it for either one of us. It feels then that the game was well played, a struggle of an exercise for us both to win and we put effort in and it was down to the wire until the last second. Those are the fun plays for me.
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>>67159363
My friend mentioned to do that, though I just don't gel well with the idea of playing someone else's list for a faction I have no interest in playing.
It doesn't help I started myself with Admech and lost every game with them to his Tau, then he moves to Admech and still blitzed my tyranids. Even he figured the change would have made things more even and still didn't.
I just feel like in swapping, perhaps I may see something new with how to run my own roster, though also I feel like I'd just lose badly again or stomp my nids and either way learn nothing new.
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>>67159515
>>67159599
I get it man, it's really tough when you feel like that.

Here's another thing you could try: don't play games to completion. Instead, try practicing certain aspects of the game. You could play the first one or two turns to try and get your initial engagement to be in your favor. If it doesn't work out, stop, reset, and go again. Talk it out with your friend after each reset to see where you went wrong (or right) and what you could change for next time. With that new knowledge, try it again.

Once you feel confident with that, try to nail down something else, say your movement when he's got you pinned down. If you make a mistake and he makes you pay for it, talk it over, reset, and go again.

The repetition and review of each phase should help you get more comfortable playing your Tyranids.
Other suggestion: whenever it's your turn to do anything in a game, talk it out with your friend. You both go over what your thinking and discuss all the outcomes you can think of. Have him tell you what he would do if you did A, B, and C to see if you want to do that. That'll give you another person's perspective and insight and allow you to talk out loud your thought process. Then when your friend takes his turn, have him talk out loud and explain everything he is doing and why he is doing it so you can see how your friend is approaching your list.
You got this, man.
>>
what do you recommend for someone who wants to start KT?
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>>67160124
Which one of those would be best for a beginner in KT?
>Custards
>Orks
>Necrons
>Chaos
>>
Haven't played a game since just before elites came out and the fellas and I are going to be checking it out soon.

Just wondering: is CSM tolerable yet?
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>>67160601
It's the same with new models + terminators
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>>67159864
Yeah, the talking out each turn would help, it's something I tend to naturally sort of do, as in I state my intent at times when going to do this or that. If anything, I guess that gives heads-ups to my friend, though in communicating, noting what works in a situation and what doesn't, it could help.
I struggle with deployment at times, I know I don't want to expose my dudes to get ganked...
I have Lictors as anti-tanky melee to go against tougher foes whilst Purestrains as my more general yet speedy melee troop (good for get off the mat missions), Warriors are my shooty sniper pair to target specialists and support, then I have gaunts for cheap bodies to mainly tie the enemy up too though termagents make neat little campers with minor short-range shooting.
I know that knowing what mission is going to happen would decide which dudes I should look more to taking.
I really do just need to have him walk me through things instead of just bemoaning my luck here.
I will say I think a solo Hive Guard would have worked better than the 3 Genestealers I deployed, though I don't own that model and I'm lax to shell out for the 3-man kit just to have the option for certain missions where an extra Warrior Gunner equivalent at an extra 10pts for the privilege would be useful, though yesterday was one of those times.
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>>67160443
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>>67160443
Death Guard...

...

It's a Chaos faction team.
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>>67156393
While that being true would actually make her useful, RAW wise it's easier to argue that she can't be leveled up at all than that shes only 20pts regardless of level.
And balance wise it's a hugely undercosted. 2.5x cheaper than next cheapest level 4 commander.
>>67160601
>>67160654
Those new models make them significantly more competitive. Still definitely not top tier but they're way better than what they were. Not that "better than before" is a high bar.
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>>67160443
Necrons all the way. Cheap to get started, simple options, straightforward but useful ability (reanimation protocols), and super simple to paint.
Pick yourself up a box of immortals and warriors and you have a great little starting force.
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Well I played vanilla CSM for my first time in kill team vs someone who was deathwatch and won due to blind dumb luck (two of my cult lads got to 3 fleshwounds) and I had fun with 10 models in the board. But damn my CSM did not feel that strong compared to my cultists. The league starts in 3 days and there are some folks who are taking it kinda serious. For vanilla Kill team (100 pts, 20 man roster) should I lock in as CSM or should I play deathguard ( which I have fully modeled from 40k) for more options? Everyone keeps telling me CSM are BAD in vanilla.
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>>67163124
DG are MUCH better in core Kill Team. From what I understand, core Kill Team CSM rely on cultist spam and even then they aren’t great.
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>>67163189
Yes everyone keeps on saying that. I guess it's do I Wana look cool and make new CSM/working on new 40 army, or have a chance of wining with my DG
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>>67147422
Looking to play Kill Team after a long 40k hiatus. Any good list for imps that let my play my old vostroyans? Are they even good?
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>>67163457
Vostroyans aren't as good as some other guard regiments like Cadians but they'll still do fine, Guard are a strong faction so long as you're willing to mix scions with your guardsmen.
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>>67164004
Different regiments have different rules?
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>>67164223
As of Elites, yes. Download the Elites book from the OP and check out the sub-faction rules.
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>>67163457
Idr what vostroyans had access to weapon-wise or if you are willing to convert but IG is all about making full use of your gunners.
You get 4 regular and 4 scions on your team at one time. From a competitive standpoint, ideally you take all or nearly all of them and they're packing the right weapons for the enemy - flamers and volley guns for other GEQs, plasma for MEQs, a Melta or 2 for Commanders etc.
If you want to go themey you're still pretty viable with just the guardsman gunners but its a significant hit to combat effectiveness. Regular guardsman are really bad. Horde lists are basically only good as warm bodies and struggle to kill anything even focusing fire on on target. If you do go the guard only route, I'd find or convert a guardsman to count-as Pious Vorne from the BSF beta rules just to pad it out a bit.
Vost themselves are one of the 8 subfactions available in elites and are pretty solid. They get to ignore long range. Probably 3rd or 4th best choice depending on composition and opponent?
>>67164223
There is subfaction rules in Elites for 8 different regiments. 1d4chan has a summary or you can get the pdf from the mega.
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>>67163124
>>67163359
Love those Corsairs anon, good luck! Elites gave CSM a nice buff with Bezerkers, maybe field a few of your dudes as them? My IW manage to play pretty great between plasma snipers and melee Terminators, but my local is pretty casual so mileage with vary.
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>>67164269
>>67164266
Oh the playgroup I'm joining doesn't use the elite book yet.

For regular play, I can paint up 4 voystroyans and 4 scions and be good to go? I assumed a "horde" would be more models than that.
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>>67164515
You'll be at about 9 to 11 models actually, beyond the 8 gunners you've got enough room for 2 generic guardsmen and a sarge, a sarge and a voxcaster guardsman, or a tempestor with a plasma pistol/powerfist. What you choose to fill out your remaining points with is largely up to you. I personally like taking the voxcaster and sarge.

By Kill Team standards, an "elite" team is typically 5-6 models (Deathwatch, Grey Knights, loyalist marines) and a "horde" team is typically going to be playing between about 9-14 models. There are some factions that don't quite fit into either category, like AdMech who typically sit between horde and elite numbers, and there are factions that do a little bit of both, like all the various flavors of chaos who bring hard-hitting "elite" forces in the form of marines, backed up by horde chaff like cultists, poxwalkers, and tzaangors.
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>>67164515
You have some extra points to spend there on top of your 8 gunners and if you magnetize that would work but theres some other caveats as well. Let me explain.

So in KT you get a roster of 20 models that you pick a list of 100pts from. Your Roster can be any number of points and have basically any combination of models on it as long as it only has 20 models on it. Keep in mind that you need 2 models to have 2 different wargear options on your roster - you can't say "this is the same guy, he just chooses to take the melta instead of the plasma today"

And then when you play, you get told what faction your opponent is playing and then you pick your list.
The list, the actual team you play with, has to be 100pts (or whatever the missions says) and has restrictions on max numbers of gunners or special units etc.

You can just make your roster have the units for 1 list that you use every game. Its easy, cuts down on choices and costs before you know you want to invest in the game. If you wanna do this mostly plasmagunners and a HSVG and maybe a flamer are a good basis.
But ideally what you do is have the models on your team so you can pick a perfectly matched list to your opponents.

You might want 8 plasma gunners against Marines, but thats not ideal against guardsmen where you want volleyguns on your scions. And neither of those are idea against melee teams where you want flamers because they auto hit on overwatch. So if you magnetize your 8 gunners and grab a few extra models to fill out points thats perfect, but otherwise ideally you want to use all your 20 models and pick the best KT from them. If thats too much investment or too much too fast, you can just run a 1-list roster until you want to expand. It wont be perfect but it will work.
KT is flexible as well as small scale, which is part of why its easy to get into.

Hope that helped explain, lemme know if anythings unclear or any questions.
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>>67164652
I wouldn't call Full-Gunner-Guard or most Tau and AdMech lists "horde". They're not Elite but they're not horde either.
To me Horde is more like flashlight/grot/poxwalker spam. The ones whos power comes from being a large number of bodies not from their actual gear and attributes.
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>>67164778
Thanks for all your help!

I'm mostly trying to figure out the logistics of making this work the metal voystroyan models I have. All of them have lasguns except for 2 flamers and 2 plasma guns. It looks like I can't play optimally with that.
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>>67165060
Yeah, if you want to be playing optimally you'll need scions and you'll want to put together a proper roster. What you have isn't a bad start though, 2 flamer/2 plasma gunner guardsmen are both models you'll want on a roster. If you can give one of lasgun vostroyans a voxcaster that's another one for the roster.
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>>67165060
I'd start by just adding in those new scions gunners and playing some games with those first. Plasmas and flamers are a solid start.
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>>67165129
>>67165140
Kek should have refreshed before posting. Beat me to it.
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>>67152072
>antenna gets hit and shatters sending splinters in the face of your dude
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>>67164875
I'd say a list of 14+ models at 100pts would equal a horde.
There are a few teams that can spam 4-7pt models, though I'd say 6-7pts just represents an average dude with some capability in-game. 8+pts are trained operatives. 12+pts are usually the scary badasses.
>>
When is the new White Dwarf going to happen? I can't wait to pirate it.
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>>67166776
Pretty sure it's the 18th.
I'm pretty excited, coincidentally I picked up a Start Collecting! Daemons of Nurgle kit on the cheap a few days ago so I'm excited that I might get to use some of the units in it before I have the actual army fully put together.
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>>67163359
>looking cool isn't the DG choice
wut
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>>67154286
>>67154488
Oh, awesome, that's a relief.
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>>67161307
>>67161422
are you insulting me
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>>67162482
>>67162482
I thought more of the elite side of KT, are Lych Guard and Praetorians doing ok?
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>>67165575
>antenna gets hit and explodes killing everyone in 6 inch radius
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>>67149656

>faggot detected

Scarab are soo damn good, sorcer is OP,gunner with missile/flamer/gatling is damn good
>>
>Daemons

Will flesh hounds be in there? I hope so.
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Wait.. I can't play elites vs core team? The points are the same so its not like I went to 200 with commander.
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>>67167630
Maybe if you're a limp dick cuckold who plays normal game instead of the chad arena where your shitty slow 40 point model can simply be ignored.
>>
Im going up against Tyranidsin 1 hour, probably horde. How do I counter them as admech?
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>>67167807
You sucks guys dick before game and beg for mercy
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>>67167807
You invest in sicarians that cut them up in melee and let your plasmas sort out the warriors?
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>>67167698
Of course you can. why shouldn't you?
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>>67167974
I don't know, I had that weird thought.
Am I going to be THAT GUY if I play Custards?
I want pretty models but very elite and low model count, anything else you could recommend?
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>>67167546
No, I don't.
I was just amused because stupid.
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>>67168085
how was it stupid
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>>67167989
People that complain about custards either have never actually played them or are terrible at the game. They are a hard team to play well and basically instalose a lot of the objective missions. Also screw people that chuck a hissy fit like that.

But if you want alternatives, GK are a good choice. Low model count, elite, participates in every phase of the game, and I think you can make them look awesome in a similar way to AC.
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>>67168184
Are GK allowed to take only 2 models? That's probably the most that's available for them to field in elites or only Custards can do that?
>>
Anyone have advice on just getting games?
Got a good roster going but haven't even played yet. I'm in FB groups but my area seems to just be interested in big boi games and I'm poor and lazy.
Is just booking a table and showing up to do a little painting going to entice people into throwing down with my Bois?
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>>67168314
Are you saying you want to take just two models? You're shooting yourself in the foot for objective missions if you're trying to take as small a killteam as possible.
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>>67168314
Only custodes get to bring two models, GK and everyone else have to abide by the minimum of 3. That said, with the elite models they should have no trouble bringing a team of only 3, and if you bring their flavour of 3 wound big boys, you'll almost be forced to.
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>>67168482
>>67168493

What I mean, the costs are so high there is no way to fit in 3 models even without altering any gear.
If for example I played Thousand Sons I can fit in Leader Sorcerer and basic terminator which is already 70 points without changing any gear and 3rd one doesn't fit anymore.

So I understand that I have to fill up with the core book models for other factions than Custodes?
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>>67168512
There are some factions that can take just 3 of their tougher units, such as SM/CSM taking just 3 terminators, but generally, Custodes are very undercosted just so they even stand a chance so the tripple terminator list would essentially just be worse custodes.
GK are one of the few factions that also have a 3 wound 2+/5++ monstrosity but they'd be fielding that along two regular marines in 100 pt missions.
If you really want 3 or 2 super buff models then Custodes is the way to go. If you'd be happy with 1 or 2 super buff and filling in the required model count with marine equivalents (which would still be pretty elite) GK and DG are an option.
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>>67168746
I am kinda leaning 3 Chaos termies since I really like general chaos but people tell me they are weak. What do fren
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>>67167807
Admech fucked my tyranids in the ass on Sunday. Use Sicarians in melee, they'll butcher everthing and put the Skitarii on the roof with plasma and arquebus, omnispex comms and simply outshoot their shooty things.
Fuck my life.
>>
this general is so dead holy shit guys step it up please
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>Check Space Marines elite dudes
>Eliminators
>Suppressors
>Infiltrators
None of the are sold out of Shadowspear box, fuck you GW.
Fuck you.
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Played some test combat with a pal yesterday as we both have made a kill team but kept on painting other stuff instead of playing once done.
We messed up on a ton of rules and used random household objects as terrain but still had a lot of fun
We messed up on the rule that when all models alive from one team is shaken they're broken instead so my pal's admech units were laying down shaken 3 rounds in a row and sharting themselves in binaric.
And like the anon above explained, we messed up the rules for charging so I could never escape the same charging model.

Gonna paint the sector sanctoris ruins before next game and get more into the rules but it seems really fun and conventient to play KT if you wanna paint lots of diff models!
>>
Whats the best tyrnidd hive for KT? Gorgon seems best.

Building a Nids KT. Got an old box of gaunts which had parts to make 8 horngaunts and 8 termagaunts with devourers

Looking at adding 3 warriors. Any other ideas?

Gaunts are unpainted.
>>
I’ve been branching out from armies I already own into a models just for KT, starting with guard. Is there a good way to catachan up scions? The original idea was “maximum Vietnam” but I don’t want to bring the same 14 man list every time. Aside from headswaps, jungle camo, and knives i’m at a loss. Their baroque armor really clashes with the catachan GI look so I may have to modify that to look more “American Industrial” than “Euro Artisan”. This would be simpler if I could get my hands on some kasrkin.
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>>67147422
>get brunt out of kill team and leave for several months
>come back and the game not only is alive but demons are announced
I love you guys
>>
>>67171158
>daemons announced
>WD release
terrible
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>>67170600
16 gaunts and three warriors isn’t bad at all, toss in a lictor for surgical leader removal missions. I don’t play ‘nids but i’d look at Kraken since it’s generally useful. You can get cute with Behemoth Genestealers with carapace but I don’t know if that’s good.
I usually get howrecked by bugs, veteran lictors are so fast and they’re just on you T1. The only counter i’ve found is to chunk a cheap scout at him and spam death denied. If I can tie up a 25 point specialist for three turns because he won’t disengage for fear of getting shot I figure I can handle the rest. Of course now he can fall back and give himself a second movement phase, so fuck me I guess.
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>>67168380
Try the GameFor app
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>>67171297
Kraken seems good for the the added movement. The fall back and charge is nice. Sorta sold on gorgon because they re roll failed wound rolls of 1.
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Daily reminder that ARENA is expensive GARBAGE, easy as fuck,made strong team even strongher,not even remotely competitive.

Greetings from a Tau / Tyranid / Dark eldar / DW / DG player.
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>>67168104
You listed essentially all the garbage factions play-wise.
I'm the anon that mentioned to go Deathguard also. In a small light-hearted effort to consider a faction known to perform actually well on the mat.
Though honestly, fuck netlisters and WAACfags, play what you want and because you like them. You'll be happier because this game is an unbalanced shitshow.
>>
>>67170361
Herp derp Daemons, herp derp, leading question around Daemons being out soon and seeking some opinions on them. [add a question mark].
That's essentially the one thing to really discuss atm.
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>>67170600
Hello, depressed tyranid anon here.
I play Kraken, though haven't won a game. Ever. I'd love to give some advice though due to never winning, I can't say my advice is any good.
I did find Lictors to be tanky and pretty cool once in melee. They're resin and you have to order them in though. Worth it though.
I've considered changing up my roster to add in some Raveners and/or at least one Hive Guard, though due to expenses, not sure I will, as I just consistently lose so I'm not seeing the point anymore.
Anyway, if you get Warriors, make one a Heavy with the Venom Cannon. You could also make one a Tyranid Prime commander if you wanted to. Optional though.
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>>67171786
>You'll be happier because this game is an unbalanced shitshow.
noted
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>>67171943
Youre a don for this info thank you.
>>
How do you determine stat per points cost efficiency for models? Is there an intuitive way to do it?
Do you find out the cheapest units that can survive/kill a GEQ/MEQ?
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>>67170518
Its okay anon those are all meme units anyway. Get yourself some veterans.
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>>67172758
I wanted the snipers thoug... Eliminators?
That and Termies, not sure If I want Veterans
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Is it worth getting Dark Angels Deathwing Terminators for the Plasma Cannon?
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>>67167630
The fact that a termie sorcerer or a kitted-out gunner is nearly 40 points a pop for a unit that dies just as easy to plasma and their equivalents as your regular Rubrics pretty much relegates them to "niche" status, regardless of their offensive capability desu. They're good - even great - in the right situation, but being such a huge points sink they limit your number of bodies on the ground (which is important considering most missions are objective-based in some capacity), and people are likely going to be packing as much high strength/AP/multi-damage weaponry against you as their faction allows because you're a primarily MEQ force.

If they're good in literally every list/matchup you're playing, you're likely only playing a fairly limited scope of mission types, and your opponents probably aren't taking full advantage of their rosters to list-tailor for MEQ's desu.
>>
Is Storm Shield allowed only with thunder hammer?
>>
>>67172856
Eliminators are only really good against GEQ's, being locked into an S4 heavy weapon that only gets 1 shot with it's AP profiles doesn't do them any favors.
A single terminator gunner is solid in 125 point missions but otherwise I'm not a big fan. Being stuck with storm bolters as their only ranged option outside of gunners really bites terminators in the ass, I think the various flavors of chaos terminators made out much better in KT.

Veterans are the new bread and butter of marines, giving you the option to take basically whatever the fuck you want for mostly reasonable points costs. Need some strong melee fighters? Veterans have you covered. A few extra plasma guns for taking on another MEQ team? Veterans have you covered. Want to play the Kill Team equivalent of a smash captain? You can do that with them.
>>
>>67173402
But I don't like veteranssssssssaaaaaaaa.
I wanted to be big bois taking a steppy
>>
For those who are new to KT, a bit of advice:
I've played 40k since 1st ed. It was a game with a wider scope in the original Rogue Trader book, (also a WAY different game then) and 40k wasn't that bad in 2nd ed. But it has been CONSISTENTLY unbalanced in every edition ever since.
GW marketing is simple, buff a faction with broken rules and new models every year. If players want to keep up, they'll have to pay for it. Following year, nerf the faction to "rebalance it" and release broken rules for another faction with new models at an increased price. (which is smart on their end, GW has out lasted just about every other miniture game) It's no different for the current version of KT. (Remember the earlier version of KT where the winning combo was tank shocking troops with Sternguard and a Razorback?) Now GW has had another price hike, understand that this is the future trend for this game.
Over the years I've cheaply bought up many armies from rage quitters and I continue to play because I have almost have every faction.
I have a box of Kill Teams that I play: Orks, Tau, Kroot, CSM/Berserkers, Guard, etc. Obviously some are stronger teams, some are fluffy teams. Some games I'll roll a die to randomly choose which faction I'm going to use to face my opponent - because I just play for the fun of it.
Imagine other hobbies and the cost of getting into them like camping, hunting, canoeing and the cost of starting: Once you buy your gear, you have it forever and you can use it whenever and it still works. Then consider 40k/AoS. Remember WHFB? Think about the cost of all those armies and where those gamers are now.

Just something to consider, modeling 40K armies is fun. But it's pricey and that team that you spent hours painting will be nerfed.

>>67171786
>play what you want and because you like them. You'll be happier because this game is an unbalanced shitshow.
This. Absolutley this.

>TL;DR
Don't go into debt for this game. Build [your dudes] they way you like.
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>>67172382
Theres a lot more to model value than stats. I'd rather have an acolyte with a rock cutter than an aberrant despite having a worse S,T and W stat, even if they were the same price.

If you want to go full mathhammer you start by working out how likely to kill/damage each model/war gear combination is against all the different types of enemies. Once you identify what weapons are ideal against a likely enemy you want to build a counter list for, you start shopping different list combinations for max damage while also comparing their kill rates on you.

Even then you're not done though, because that doesn't tell the whole story. Some models have tactical advantages. Body count has value. Mobility. Countering specific strats or providing access to them. Meltaguns aren't always amazing but stick one of a deep striking Tempestus Scion and you can ruin someone's day. And in some games having a body in the right place at the right time is more important than any amount of killing.

Theres is no simple analysis you can do to fully determine a models worth though. Theres too many factors. But if you wanted to try start with damage output and kill rates.
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>>67173456
If you don't like them by all means, don't feel obliged to take them. Play whatever you want man. I'm just saying that a strong marine roster is likely to lean pretty heavy on vets for the sake of versatility.
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>>67173718
Damn it, I can't decide on anything.
>>
Newfag here, finished putting together my Tau set. Do I paint them all uniform with the same scheme for realism or do I paint them like Delta Squad from Republic Commando or Noble Team or something where their colors make them immediately distinguishable?
>>67173463
If I'm just going to be playing with friends, family, and hopefully eventually a group I start at a local MTG store, would homebrewing the rules a bit to make it more balanced for the sake of everyone having a good time be feasible?
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How does it look for CSM?

+Leader Spec+ 36
>Terminator Champion, combi-plasma, power axe

+Specs+ 64
>Terminator Gunner, Reaper Autocannon, chainaxe 32 - Heavy
>Terminator Gunner, Heavy Flamer, chainaxe 32 - Demolitions

99/100

It's only 1 termie box so it's super good for my wallet.
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>>67173962
sorry forgot to change it's 100/100
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>>67173962
I could drop power axe back to chainaxe and get icon though
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>>67173940
Paint them up with like a 90% uniform scheme then give them each a colored stripe or shoulder pad or something to distinguish them. It'll give them a unified identity while keeping all of them easily distinct from one-another.
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>>67173940
>playing with friends, family, and hopefully eventually a group
Well, you could just recommend to them to top factions for the current version. I just wanted to warn about the cost and the marketing strategy for long term play.
You could also just adapt older versions and play by those rules. There is an older fantasy version of Kill Team called Mordheim, which still has a niche following, with groups continually homebrewing rules. All the PDFs are online, and you really only need a handful of figures to play much like KT. (and it's far cheaper) If you like Sci-fi though, I'd make a small Kill Team for yourself, but if you want to draw friends, family, and are afraid they may choke on the entry fee for KT, introducing them to Mordheim might be better. Really depends on if they are consistent gamers or not.
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>>67174122
I don't think KT and Mordheim are really comparable games, outside of the fact that they're both skirmish games made by GW they have nothing in common. Mordheim is an in-depth campaign game more akin to Necromunda with tons of customization and details. Kill Team is more of a quick one-off pickup or tournament kind of game, with a barebones campaign system tacked on if you want to use it. They don't really play the same at all.
>>
Can I play as Sisters of Silence yet?
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>>67174361
They are completely different games indeed. My point was that they are both skirmish games requiring very few figures. There's no power creep, nor pay to win with Mordheim, it is a dead game that fans have been tweaking to keep it balanced.
If you're going to spend hours reading rules, assembling figures, personalizing them and painting them, would you like to use those same figures 2-5 years down the road?
Just throwing out options for potential player who may become disappointed with KT in the future.
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>>67174600
nop
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>>67173099
I hate that armour and tankiness is so expensive when special weapons like plasma are like +4-5pts.
Not even Death Guard can out-tank a plasma spam.
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>>67174677
I honestly have more fun playing Oldmunda, using the old 90s hardback with Outlanders included in the back.
It's not balanced, though it's more fun than Kill Team, is more 40k in feel and I may have actually won a game at one point, though I'm so drained getting stomped every time in KT my confidence is now fucked.
Oldmunda is also dead (fuck cash-milking Numunda) though if you can find a copy of the rules out there, gang fights are pretty fun.
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>>67174921
Have you tried the community edition?
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>>67174773
Plasma is usually 3 points, at least outside of the Elite options.
Blightlord Terminators are the only terminator variety I've been consistently impressed with as far as tankiness goes. I've brought one in a few 100 point games and about ten 125 point games so far and I have yet to actually have an opponent kill one, and I'm usually facing plasma spam marines or triple railfinder + a fusion stealthsuit tau. Blightlords make great distraction carnifexes. T5 and 2+/4++/5++ is a rock-solid defensive statline.

I've tried a few different loadout combos and I think I like a flail combat spec blightlord the best. I haven't really been super impressed with the cost-to-performance ratio of any other loadouts.
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>>67174951
>>67174921
>more fun playing Oldmunda
Man that is a system I always wished I had players for. Never had a chance to get into it but loved the figures and the hive world terrain ppl would build. I still find a lot of inspiration from it.
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/61878183/
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+Leader+ 30
>Terminator Sargeant, Storm Bolter, Power Sword.
+Specs+ 70
>Terminator Gunner, Assault Cannon, Power Fist - Heavy
>Terminator Gunner, Heavy Flamer, Power Fist - Demolitions

100/100

That doesn't sound very strong for 100 points...
>3 points short to have Cyclone missile launcher variant
it hurts... that's what I get for wanting pure termies.
>>
>>67171720
If you don't like it, don't play it.
Make informed choices when you spend your money.
Also you are kind of salty so here take a pussy to cheer up.
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>>67171943
Raveners seem really good
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>>67175757
haven't tried elites but don't their missions go beyond 100pts?
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>>67173402
I’ve got a box of 5 vets. What would be the best way to build them?
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>>67175965
I am not sure yet but I also want to play with core game people so that would be 100 cap
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>>67175965
Elites adds a number of 125 and 200 point missions, but the majority of missions are still 100 points.
Elites isn't like commanders were the units can only be taken in Elite-specific missions; Elite units simply add to the available unit pool for use in all missions.
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>>67171720
No one cares.
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For DG plague marinesis running plasma gun on the champion pretty much the norm? Seems like a good way to free up the two gunners to take other stuff, but do you then lose your melee profile I wonder
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>>67176490
Plasma gun/plague sword is usually the default leader option. I also keep a fully kitted out plasma gun/power fist/plague sword champion on my roster as well for when I need more heavy-hitters in melee beyond our 2 fighters. With our rapid fire range extended to 18" the plasma gun leader is even better.
Plasma isn't really a good choice for our gunners. Blight launchers out-perform plasma against GEQ's and MEQ's in every scenario except when overcharging at short range, and the fact that we don't get access to the sniper perk makes that more risky than with other factions. Considering plague marines poor default movement, being able to advance and fire is also invaluable, and it's even better now with inexorable advance removing the penalty for advancing and shooting with assault weapons.

>but do you then lose your melee profile I wonder
Not really sure what you mean by that. The champ can still take a powerfist if need be. We have fighters with cleavers and flails for melee duty anyway.
>>
>>67176490
You don't lose the melee loadout, you just have to load up on points. 22 for both power fist and plasma gun (and plaguesword which is always there)
>>
As Space Marines, what kind of team should I run NOT to get fucking rinsed by custodes? Normally a Primaris Sarge with power sword, and Primaris gunner with grenade launcher are mainstays of my force, but against custodes 2-damage weapons I feel like primaris are purely a liability. Especially a Primaris sarge with a power sword, the very last place I want to be is in melee with a custodes so that all feels like nothing but wasted points.
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>>67176850
Stock up on hard-hitting weapons like plasma and missile launchers, and make sure to keep up command points for Death Denied - the Salamanders chapter tactic is great for freeing up your re-rolls to save for Death Denied. Utilizing a tac sarge leader, a tac gunner with plasma, scout gunners and 2 vet gunners, you can field a 6 man force all armed with the kind of hard-hitting weapons that give custards a run for their money.
And remember, you get to bring twice as many dudes than he does. Your action economy is much better, take advantage of that. Try not to group your dudes so close that he can get into melee with multiples of them in one go.
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>>67163124
Turns out there is another deathguard player so in my attempt to be a special snowflake looks like I'm playing CSM for Core/base Killteam. How fucked am I and how do I mitigate this? Are there certain factions that I will have to go CSM heavy and others cultboi heavy? Any ideas for an ok base for cultbois?
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>>67147422
>TQ
I think that I should've screen cap some posts around here that Daemons would never come because it was severely unfluffy having daemons worring about supplies, stealing intel, etc.
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>>67147422
>What do you think about the addition of Daemons to Kill Team? How do you think they will match up against other factions? Do you have any spicy predictions regarding their inclusion in Kill Team?
I am deeply worried that they will be boring, lack well-justified fluff, and promote mono-god kill teams. The approach to Kroot in White Dwarf was almost worse than nothing just because it removed the hope they'd get anything better.

I strongly suspect they won't bother to expand on individual models the way other armies did: the addition of the Auspex and Omnispex as meaningful equipment options, for example. Horrors have daggers on their sprue. Plaguebearers have pet nurglings and death's heads... Bloodletters and Daemonettes have pretty boring sprues, but hey, maybe let Bloodletters take hellglaives (power axes) to represent the old metal models. Or a special meltasword option just by painting the blade lava-style.

I am dead certain they won't bother to rework unit entries or options to keep or make them valid in Kill Team. Flamers could work with a Movement cut, for example; reduce them to M6" and have them Advance a flat 6" by blasting themselves with their flames. The Horrors "everyone is a psyker" schtick will need serious reworking for Kill Team, and I doubt it'll get it. Daemonic Icons would be pathetic in kill team, but they'll stay the same instead of adapting the more interesting locus/unit-size boosts.

I think they'll include lots of [ALLEGIANCE] stuff (e.g. icons/instruments) that'll force mono-god without even thinking about it, but also won't include the datasheets or options you'd need to make mono-god teams interesting or fun.

I hope to be proved wrong, though.
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>>67164515
>Oh the playgroup I'm joining doesn't use the elite book yet.
Keep it that way, if possible.

The Elites book is horribly rushed - subfaction abilities are wildly imbalanced for the most part, and some of them turn into win-buttons under the right (wrong) circumstances), while others just outright DO NOTHING because of pre-existing rules for that faction.

The new unit entries are of similarly variable usage and appropriateness, while most of the Reserves Tactics (the "redeploy" ones are... basically okay) snap existing game balance over their knee.

It's just... not a good book, in lots of ways. It's a shame if you're an Aeldari player and wanted Striking Scorpions (or Mandrakes/Wracks), or if you're Chaos and wanted 'Zerkers, or if you're Marines and wanted Infiltrators... but the cost is not worth the benefits, overall.
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>>67178011
>I think they'll include lots of [ALLEGIANCE] stuff (e.g. icons/instruments) that'll force mono-god without even thinking about it, but also won't include the datasheets or options you'd need to make mono-god teams interesting or fun.
...fuck, I can already see this. Instrument of Chaos is just a [GOD-only] brayhorn and Daemonic Icon is just a [GOD-only] ATSKNF aura that costs 5pts. And then they wonder why all kill teams are monogod.
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>>67167573
>shooting antenna causes it to send out a spurious activation code which incidentally calls in an artillery strike on the entire board
>>
>>67147422
>What do you think about the addition of Daemons to Kill Team? How do you think they will match up against other factions? Do you have any spicy predictions regarding their inclusion in Kill Team?
It's WD release so I expect shit, not even a proper index or something
>>
>>67178251
>antenna malfunctions and sends out an exterminatus activation protocol
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>>67178151
implying they won't go giga lazy and just re-use csm marks with different names
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>>67176627
I see, is there any use for the plague belcher and spewer? I'm only grabbing one box of plague marines for starters as I already have poxwalkers and termies so wont have access to a 2nd launcher right away
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>>67173940
> do I paint them like Delta Squad from Republic Commando
Yes. Do this. Then post photos here.
Boss games of my childhood aside, KT is about your dudes. You paint them however you like in whatever style you like.
We had one anon give all his admech different Cowboy and western style hats and balance his Arquebus on a cactus.
I like making them customized and individual. Get you attached and into their story. Had a my scout survive a fistfight with a lictor and win me a game so I gave him rents torn across his breastplate and a few scars. I'm painting barrel rings on my suppressor for every kill he lands. That sort of thing.
>>
When is the new white dwarf releasing again?
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>>67178351
>exterminatus activation protocol accidentally damages hidden xenos artifact deep beneath the surface that is preventing a second eye of terror from tearing open in that sector
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>>67178120
The fuck? Elites improved the balance. Now factions like CSM aren't just stuck losing most of the time and some monobuild factions actually have options.
Yes it shook up the meta. Guard can be hyper mobile glass cannon now instead of gun lining. You can't make your leader a cheap nothing unit and hide it anymore. And you can risk losing early control of the board for an opportune reserve play. But shaking things up is not a bad thing.
The only thing that actually is bad, is Kraken. But I'd still rather have it in play than go back to the less balanced game it was before with entire factions being uncompetitive and few real options forcing stagnant team builds.
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>>67147422
>TQ
Cautiously optimistic, I just want an excuse not to sell my Bloodletters since I put a fair amount of effort into building them (those damned seams between the two head pieces) and they'd paint up great with the new contrasts. Just that they need to have some kind of special rules, or be really cheap, in order to not just get stomped as they try amble up into melee range.
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>>67178851
>You can't make your leader a cheap nothing unit and hide it anymore. And you can risk losing early control of the board for an opportune reserve play.
In what way? Are you talking about Deepstrike/teleport/hidden setup/ whatever?

I thought terminators were universally regarded as excessively overpriced. Jump pack vanguard also overpriced for a single wound model. Reivers dogshit at melee. infiltrators mostly junk aside from their "deny deepstrike" gimmick. And eliminators excessively overpriced as well given their S4 gun.

Unless you know with absolute certainty that your opponent is going to hide a cheap leader how can you afford to take a deepstriking unit to kill it?
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>>67178624
The belcher is good to have for fighting GEQ melee factions. I think the spewer is a trap though, 9" range on a 5" move body that you can't advance and fire means its likely spending half the game just setting up to fire and thats not where you want to be when you only get 3 shooty bodies.
If you can pick up the easy to build kit, gives you the 2nd blight launcher and a power fist/plasma gun leader for cheap.
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>>67178897
Jumppack vanguards are fairly pricy but in practice they can absolutely pull their weight, being able to deploy anywhere outside 5" of an enemy just completely changes how you can approach melee, or you can go for dual plasma pistols for a t1 assassination or a storn shield if you're worried about their fragility.

Also more than just marines got deepstrike rules dude. Scions, which you're likely bringing anyway as guard, get a deepstrike tactic. As do striking scorpions and others. You can also reserve a regular dude and pop them in from the other side of the map if you feel so inclined.
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>>67179353
>reserve a regular dude and pop them in from the other side of the map
that I didn't know. I just assumed reserves game in from your deployment zone edge, that's not the case?
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>>67179167
Thanks for the help anon, anything but plasma spam is very much welcome
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>>67178011
>Lack well justified fluff
Daemons have personalities and the chance for personal advancement, so daemons "levelling up" is already supported by the lore. Its just daemon personalities tend to be pretty much all exactly the same and those daemons that do "level up" usually end up trapped in somebody's daemon weapon or whatever or go to be the final boss in some dark heresy campaign, not be part of the chaos daemons army.

If you mean why a small group of daemons are operating independently, then that's probably just a gellar field failure, somebody touched an ancient cursed artifact or a small cult sacrificed themselves and didn't get many daemons out of it.
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>>67178897
There are non Marine factions, anon. And your roster with its limited space needs to be right to play against all of them. Not to mention the whole metagame. If everyone assumes marines won't bring deepstrike units and so doesn't counter it this makes them vulnerable to that very tactic.
This is especially true because marine factions tend to have roster space (though less true now with elites) so they can fit niche lists, and there are only a few select factions that rely on the hidden leader technique so the times you're taking a suboptimal team jic of a hidden leader are limited. And as the other anon said, some of the DS capable marine units are not a bad choice by their own merits even before being used for leader assassination
>>67179478
It is the case when you don't use a tactic and the model doesn't have any special abilities related to it. But what he's talking about is Outflank, a 1cp tactic every faction in the game gets access to.
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>>67178851
What's a good CSM list now that Elites is out?
>>
If you’re playing in a tournament, campaign, or any competitive setting...do you have to share your command roster with your opponent before you pick you team? Or is that the norm?
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>>67179478
There's a general tactic added with Elites that lets you deploy from reserves onto any board edge that's outside 5" from an enemy. You only get to do it with one dude per tactic activation so it is worse than the faction-specific deepstrike tactics, but it isn't restricted by unit type at all.
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>>67180857
The only thing your opponent gets to know before a mission is your faction keyword. If its a competitive setting you should be submitting a copy of your roster to the tournament organizer though.
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>>67181127
So what's to stop you from reserving onto the
>exit edge
of the board in that one mission where you have to move your models off a particular edge to score points, and then next time walking them back across?
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>>67181330
the wish not to be THATGUY?
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>>67179526
>those daemons that do "level up" usually end up trapped in somebody's daemon weapon or whatever or go to be the final boss in some dark heresy campaign, not be part of the chaos daemons army.

>El Shrav'nishell has terrorized the Modenkian forest for over 700 years, inspiring a local nomadic tribe to worship it as a god and regularly send human sacrifices into the forest to appease it.
>Some 20 year old dude named Jeb from a hive city who has never even seen a real tree before just killed El Shrav'nishell with an autogun while simultaneously shitting his pants and screaming in terror.
>No one will remember El Shrav'nishell because 29 other daemons of similar heritage were also geeked when Jeb's platoon leader called in artillery support.
>Neither will Jeb be remembered because everyone taking part in this battle is going to be euthanized by the Inquisition if they survive.
>>
Are jump packs auto include on SM veterans?
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>>67181330
Are we pretending that GW knew what they were doing? The answer is that they didn't think of that far ahead and that mission is less balanced now.
That said its not so bad.
You need to get a majority of your models off the board and only 1/2 of your models can be in Reserve. You're also risking a lot because it means they have their full team both on the board, while you only have a partial team and at least one model in that partial team needs to fight through them to get out.
Alternatively you bring those models in, and you're in the midst of their entire team which also proceeds to wreck you with their turn of shooting. Safer against melee teams as they only get a 50/50 chance to lock you down before you move off the board edge, but you still have to get another model through from your board edge.
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>>67181461
Anon if its an artillery strike then the daemon is fine, it just has to spend a few years (well, something like years, time is fucky in the warp after all) recovering. Or become a soul grinder for a quick out.
Daemons only truly die in exceptional circumstances.
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>>67181703
Yeah I imagine that lesser daemons accumulate quite a history of being shit on and sent back to the warp over and over again. No wonder they're so angry all the time.
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>>67181330
Only half of your total models and points can be in reserve and you can only use the tactic once a turn. Outflank also only allows you to deploy one model from reserves with the tactic. Trying to win the game off of that is going to be slow-going and once you try it with the first guy it's not exactly hard for your opponent to see what you're doing.

>>67181658
Funnily enough, GW did include a clause in the 125 elites book version of that mission to disallow the attacking side to use reserves, so clearly they were thinking of it going forward. I imagine the reasoning for not retroactively applying the same clause to previously released missions is the headache it would be to errata all of them (or maybe a 2nd errata is coming, who knows).
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>>67177444
>How fucked am I and how do I mitigate this?
You can compete decently enough on objective or escape missions but you're just lacking the killing power to really compete on kill missions.

>Are there certain factions that I will have to go CSM heavy and others cultboi heavy?
You might want to consider a few more CSM against GEQ teams but no matter what you'll almost always be wanting the cultist horde - non-gunner/champ CSM don't bring enough killing power or practical defense to the table to justify taking one over the 3 cultists you'd get for the same points

>Any ideas for an ok base for cultbois?
The typical pre-Elites CSM team composition is the following, with some minor deviation based on personal preference (some people find it unfluffy to run the cultist champ as your leader, but when you only have 3 models that can actually kill things you really want to make each of them count to the fullest IMO. Some people also don't like the icon bearer but I like the leadership buff for the cultist horde). This is really the core of any CSM list and deviations from matchup to matchup will be fairly limited, mostly you'll see changes in the special weapon gunners loadout, and you may opt for flamers instead of stubbers for the cultist gunners on occasion.
99 points total
>LEADER
Cultist Champion (5 pts)
-shotgun
>SPECIALISTS
Aspiring Champion (combat) (18 pts)
-power fist
-plasma pistol
Chaos Space Marine Gunner (sniper) (16 pts)
-plasma gun
Chaos Space Marine Gunner (heavy) (16 pts)
-heavy bolter
>NON-SPECIALISTS
Chaos Space Marine (14 pts)
-icon of vengeance
Cultist Gunner (5 pts) x2
-heavy stubber
Chaos Cultist (4 pts) x5
-equipped to taste
>>
>>67153957
officio assassinorum rules
>>
>>67152589
> Knights don't really travel in L shapes either.

love it! :D
>>
>>67167630
> Scarab are soo damn good,
They do seem to be overly costed for hardly any increase in defense (2+, compared to RM's 3+ with a typical +1; 5++, compared to RM's 5++...they have an extra wound, but that's about it). The soulreaper cannon is the same as on the RM's, so it's only the missiles or heavy flamer...and is the loss of bodies worth it?
>>
>>67168512
Base custodes are 33pt each, so three in a 100 point team. Termie custodes are 67pts each, so one of them and one base guardian.

Both are highly discounted because they cannot have cheaper units alongside, and thus really struggle at holding objectives.
>>
>>67182779

Yes becouse at 125 pts what do you wanna use? Boltgun marine? More tzaangors?

You all undervalue the teleport,it speed up the faction in an incredible way
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>>67183049
Most missions 100p even in Elites?
And yeah, more tzaangors is a pretty damn good deal.
>>
>>67178851
>The only thing that actually is bad, is Kraken
Not him, but my Freebooterz are "why even bother"-tier, Thousand Sons got almost nothing unless you blow a third of your points on a Terminator Sorcerer, Deldar get screwed out of 2/3 of their units by Obsessions, and I'm told that Red Grief literally does nothing.

And they really need to fix "reroll Advance/charges" as a mechanic, since it became even more widespread in Elites: in 40k I don't care what I roll to charge because it's pass/fail. In Kill Team I can fail a charge, reroll, and end up with a WORSE result. It's a new version of the "reroll Morale" problem from 40k.
>>
>>67179526
>Daemons have personalities and the chance for personal advancement, so daemons "levelling up" is already supported by the lore.
Yeah, but that's what I mean. I /like/ independent daemons and non-primary color warp entities. They're what actually tends to show up and be interesting in the fluff, as opposed to a factory line of identical nameless Bloodletters like Khorne's mashing the Recruit button in Age of Empires.

My concern is that a lot of players sperg out over just that, and the WD writers will probably cater to them; the Kroot fluff was desultory and existing KT dev statements have been less than encouraging. I'm fully expecting a bare few paragraphs that amount to "yeah lol daemons don't really form kill teams but I guess if the planet is just falling apart in a warp storm then maybe some might team up idk hope you didn't want to customize them because every daemon is identical and meaningless".
>>
>>67181703
>Anon if its an artillery strike then the daemon is fine, it just has to spend a few years (well, something like years, time is fucky in the warp after all) recovering
Only if it's a relatively experienced one. Daemons aren't killed when their material bodies die, it's true, but we can assume some level of dispersal/feedback from the fact that they have to spend time reforming in the Immaterium before being summoned again, with older/more powerful daemons having a bigger buffer of sapience to absorb the shock.

More to the point, "newborn" daemons barely have a persona at all, so it's largely meaningless whether or not they "survive" that artillery strike. There's no "them" in the first place. A nameless daemonette born from a fleeting lustful glance might be summoned elsewhere after being killed, but she probably doesn't even know it and nor would anyone else, until she claws her way into having an ego of her own. And for all that the Chaos Gods say they're supreme and untouchable, something like half of the Daemon special characters have backstories that read "this daemon developed and ego of its own, so Khorne/Tzeentch/Slaanesh/Nurgle got afeared and cursed them".
>>
>>67167630
>Scarab are soo damn good
>40pts
>barely tougher than 17pt Rubric
>compulsory for Brotherhood of Sorcerers
Yeah, no, you're playing against morons. Taking a Scarab is just handing a third of your points away to any team that can plasma-spam.
>>
>>67167650
>Will flesh hounds be in there? I hope so.
>Bloodletter
>Flesh Hound
>Plaguebearer
>Nurglings (swarm or single-base?)
>Pink Horror/Blue Horror/Brimstone Horror
>Flamer (if move or range is nerfed)
>Daemonette

And I guess Slaanesh just has to deal with having "worse Wyches with no upgrade options" as its only datasheet.
>>
>>67147422
>What do you think about the addition of Daemons to Kill Team?
How the fuck are they going to do Daemonic Icons? Daemon Morale is /weird/.
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>>67183119
Isn't it your part to make the lore and shit for your kill team? What is hindering you from giving every demon on your roster a different look, background and character? You could even give them some lines they would say in your games where you would change your voice and act like a total lunatic. Also if the rules of kill team are too restrictive for you there is always open play where you can just do what every you want. You want that very specific unit in your games but you don't have rules for it? Yeah DIY and make the rules. The only thing that is stopping you from making your kill team YOURDUDES is your imagination.

Now go and make some demon waifus and post pictures when you are done.
>>
>>67183288
>Isn't it your part to make the lore and shit for your kill team?
Yeah, but I can make a Tau kill team that was adopted by the Eldar and taught their superior combat techniques, too. That doesn't mean it's supported. I just want fluff that doesn't cater to the NO EVERY BLOODLETTER IS RED AND MINDLESS crowd.

You'd think Kill Team would be the perfect vehicle for that, but I'm reserving my optimism.
>>
>>67183446
They don't need to give you fluff anon, especially for daemons where anything is possible.
>>
>>67181220
No, most of the packets have you exchanging roster before team selection.
>>
>>67157264
Talk about what he thinks you did wrong and then play the same mission again.

Also consider switching teams with him. If he's just much better than you, you might learn some good stuff about how to play your team from seeing that.

Or you could turn into one of those players that pushedls models around at random while complaining how unfair everything is.
>>
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Beakies
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>>67178709
>catastrophic antenna malfunction creates another chaos god
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>>67178120
>win button subfactions
Besides Kraken as the other anon pointed out and I agree with, I'm curious what these are. Because overall I agree with what he said. Balance is better with Elites than without. Reserves and some style-over-substance subfactions are not compelling arguments against it.
>>67183088
> Freebooterz are "why even bother"-tier, Thousand Sons got almost nothing, Deldar get screwed, and Red Grief literally does nothing.
Also not him, but yes some teams didn't get as much out of it as others but the balance is still better with Elites than without. Average disparity between teams is still less now.

Also I'm guessing by Kraken is bad he meant that Kraken is the most unbalanced not that its useless. Kraken makes it VERY hard to get away from Nids and eliminates one of their key weaknesses. It is an exceptional buff for a team that was already pretty dang good.

>In Kill Team I can fail a charge, reroll, and end up with a WORSE result
Thats on you. You don't HAVE to reroll. You choose and you run that risk if you have a good but not successful charge roll. A chance of success in exchange for the chance for a worse outcome. Also you can always just choose not to move on an unsuccessful charge roll.
>>
>>67183288
That pic is everything wrong with this hobby.
>>
>>67184751
Low test
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>>67157183
Get only the nobz, Flash Gits are Freebooters and are the best at shooting but cost quite
>>
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>>67184751
>>67184923
Wish sculptor anon would post the end result.
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>>67174951
Nope, I'm happy with the Oldmunda hardback.
It contains everything and I have literally no reason to download some pdfs for added Mary Sue bullshit.
>>
>>67175182
Point is woop woop it's actually +3pts to get a plasma weapon, when if you want to pay for armour/tankiness to protect against it, you're paying around 40pts.
It's not fair.
>>
>>67175951
They're expensive points-wise though. I was more tempted when making my roster to stick with Genestealers, as I could put more in a list, though Purestrains actually die to mean looks so far with me.
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>>67175965
Some Elites missions are 125, others are 200 with optional commander.
The anon really needs to make a roster and make up a list once they know what mission is getting played that session.
They're gonna get ass-blasted continually taking that 3 terminator list to play.
As an example if I knew I was facing that, I'd just roll up with 3 Custodian Guard and depending on mission pick who will get shields and what pair of specialists I'd go with.
>>
>>67178851
>>67184555
Fuck you guys, I play Kraken Tyranids and haven't won a single game.
>>
>>67186299
>I'd just roll up with 3 Custodian Guard and depending on mission pick who will get shields and what pair of specialists I'd go with.
I mean, isn't that pretty much every Custodes list at 100/125 points?
>>
>about to get into kill team
>the new AoS warcry band drops
oh no no no no no
>>
>>67185862
This guy goes to my LGS. If I remember next time I see him I'll take a picture.
>>
>>67183985
Yeah.
Though atm I feel it's unfair. I'm thinking I'm just shit and should give up right now.
>>
>>67186383
No team can survive being played poorly. They're worried about Kraken in the hands of players that actually know what they're doing.
>>
>>67186428
Correct, though point is even they'd fuck 3 Termies in the ass. And there was little effort put into that counter either.
>>
>>67186523
This makes me feel tons better, after never winning. Guess I need to git gud or some shit then. Fuck this game.
>>
>>67186462
Wonderful. If the rest of his army is as tasteful as the thiccsuit, please get a shot of those as well.
>>
>>67186506
If your decision is between quitting and whinging then please go ahead with the first option.

Or you could accept that your friend is playing better than you and try to learn.
>>
>>67186586
Yes, it's the game's fault that you can't win with possibly the most broken subfaction.

That'll make you feel better about it, I'm sure.
>>
>>67186586
Look dude. Bad enough choices can drive any faction into the ground, and that being true doesn't change whether its balanced or not. Nids are a good team. All else (e.g. player skill and mission selection) being equal they should be winning a good portion of their games.
You, as in you personally, should be doing better with Nids regardless of subfaction unless you're only playing against vastly superior players, and you should consider that before weighing in, in an assholeish way, on a conversation about game balance.

But I do admit I was a bit harsh. So rather than just saying "git gud and git out", why don't tell us about your games - what you take and how you used it and who you took it against, and maybe we can help you.
>>
Having to build """"meta"""" to win instead of just bringing models you like to have beer and pretzels game is pathetic
>>
>>67186916
Your opinion is bad and you should feel bad.

If you and your opponent just take the models you like but he likes models that form a functional team while yours don't then he's obviously going to have a big advantage.

This is like complaining that you can't pick cards at random in a deck building game.

List building is part of the game. If you don't like that then play a game where the forces are fixed.
>>
>>67186948
You have a point with card game because it's cheap shit.
Models on the other hand should be playable regardless because of their shitty gw price tag
>>
>>67186872
We've tried that with him before. He's not interesting in putting any effort into improving.
>>
>>67186687
The rest are more normal. His paint jobs are really good, as long as you're into the heavily weathered look.
>>
>>67186962
It's not like they came in blind boxes. You choose them. Choose better.

It's a list building game. Even if it was possible to make every combination equally good people wouldn't like that because they enjoy list building.

Why don't you show us your models?
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>>67187005
Then don't make redundant models? Anon your arguments fall short.
I am not saying every faction has to be overpowered shit but all of them should be somewhat viable, more or less, not completely useless or top tier

Here are some models to sate your "hurrr show models" autism.
>>
>>67187033
And which models are you claiming are so suboptimal that they are redundant?
>>
>>67187033
3 chaos termies for example or 3 loyalist termies, they are all suboptimal than meta soup
>>
>>67187081
Derp.

Neither chaos or loyalist termies are redundant.

It's the combination that you have selected which is suboptimal and since it's an obvious gimmick list that should not be a surprise.

I'm not sure there is any unit that is so good you can take just that one and not have a sub optimal list.
>>
>>67187103
>I'm not sure there is any unit that is so good you can take just that one and not have a sub optimal list.
Harlies.
>>
>>67186212
>Only Escher gets swords, nobody else in the whole hive makes them.
Look dude, I like oldmunda as much as the next guy but it isn’t perfect. You don’t have to use everything, we sure didn’t, but it expands your options past what GW made for gangers during the first run. If you want Escher to have a monopoly on parry while Goliath uses that worthless muscle chart knock yourself out, but don’t pretend they nailed the balance on the first round.
>>67186383
We know anon, you mention it often. Maybe you should try Custodes.
>>
>>67187103
still they should put up some fight instead of being raped
>>
>>67187081
Of course a list that ignores most of the options available to it will be sub optimal. How would that not be the case?

The only single datasheet teams that aren't sub optimal are the ones for factions that only have a single datasheet.
>>
>>67187155
then GW shouldn't push old ass berzerkerz into elites, or possessed.
It's clear they want to push old stock.
I'm seething
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>>67187150
>I brutally handicapped myself but I should still have a good team
If you fail to use the options available to you that is on you.
>>
>>67187170
What the fuck does that have to do with your points?

Berzerkers are awesome and fixed CSM as a faction.

Possessed were not awesome.
>>
>>67187183
>What the fuck does that have to do with your points?
that they push old shit into elites, look at poor eldar players if they even exist in KT.
>>
>>67187170
That'll be why elites had a bunch of units with brand new models, a bunch of units with really old models and a bunch of units with models that are neither new or old.
>>
>>67187214
Yes we got loyalist terminators (that range from very old to new-ish) and chaos terminators that are brand new.

So what?
>>
>>67187223
Termies are nice and I want to buy them but to be optimal I have to get shitty ass old berzerkers, that's what.
>>
>>67187214
So your argument is that eldar players shouldn't have gotten aspect warriors and chaos shouldn't have gotten berzerkers because the models are a bit old?

First, why not? Lots of ranges have ten year old models. Orks just got a replacement for a model that was released in. 2nd edition.

Secondly, what does this have to do with game balance or have you abandoned that point?
>>
>>67187265
>a bit old
Do you call corpses a bit old too?
>>
>>67186916
>I play shit and if you don't also play shit then you're a WAAC fag
>>
>>67187241
This is always the case if you care about the models
You have to find lists that work and use models that you like (the age of them really isn't relevant).

Kit bash some zerkers with the new CSM kit or something. What's the problem?
>>
>>67187300
Why do you call it shit?
>>
>>67187304
>What's the problem?
my poorfaggotry
>>
>>67187241
What you actually mean is - you like the rules for berzerkers but you don't like the models.

This is hardly an unusal problem. Convert, kit bash or go 3rd party to ger models you like that give you the rules you want.
>>
>>67187331
Buying a csm box and kitting them with pistols and chain weapons then painting them to distinguish them as zerkers requires buying no more stuff than buying zerkers.
>>
>daemons coming to KT
How disappointed are we going to be?
>>
>>67187367
>>67187354
I just wanted to recreate Space Hulk don't bully me
>>
>>67187492
If you play proper space hulk (1st edition - best edition) then you should know that 9 times out of 10 the genestealers fuck the terminators.

KT has recreated this perfectly.

(if anyone has the later inferior versions I can scan the 1st edition rules)
>>
>>67187582
Fine, I will just play my shitty termies and lose.
>>
>>67187618
>why can't my shitty gimmick list be good, it's so unfair
There are mission/opponent combinations where three terminators is viable.

What else is in your roster?
>>
>>67187492
Sin of Damnation was a collossal defeat for the blood angels. They lost almost their whole 1st company and then gave up on recovering anything of value then had a tantrum and destroyed it with torpedoes.

You are recreating space hulk.
>>
>>67187648
>What else is in your roster?
I would add eliminators/suppressors/infiltrators if the jews sold it out of the Shadowspear box
>>
>>67187680
They'll be out with proper kits fairly soon.
>>
>>67187673
salt my wounds further
>>
>>67187680
Veterans are the core of a marine list now, which is completely appropriate for KT.
>>
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>>67187680
They're all mixed on the sprues to make the starter set cheaper. Those units will get proper kits fairly soon.

While you're waiting why don't you work on a KT board suitable for space hulk style games?

< mine
>>
>>67187796
sorry I'm too poor to even afford table
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>>67187824
Go to a picture framing place and ask if you can have any offcuts of mount board they have.
>>
>>67187714
the veteran datasheet is a clusterfuck, why didn't make a separate one for vanguards?
>>
>>67187886
No clue. There is zero game impact to splitting those units across several datasheets and it's not like they couldn't have dumped one of those pages of re-used artwork if it was a page count issue.
>>
>>67187436
>
I'm not going to be dissapointed at all because I have realistic expectations.
>>
>>67188016
what are your expectations anon?
>>
>>67188046
Lesser daemons. Maybe heralds as commanders or maybe they'll forget to give daemons commanders like they did with kroot.

If it includes any of the medium units like screamers and seekers that will be a bonus but I don't expect it to.

Eisenhorn only, no other inquisition stuff.
>>
>>67188046
>>67188279
Frankly, if Daemons are actually capable of fielding a proper list for all of the missions (i.e. have a commander that's less than 100 points, can field 100, 125 and 200pts without a commander) then I'll have a mildly pleasant suprise.
>>
>>67188279
Really shows the state of the hobby that the realistic expectations are the ones where they're the absolute barebones minimum of what they can get away with
>>
>>67188659
GW is like Todd
>>
>>67147422
Oh, shit! I've actually been playing a Daemon Kill Team using homebrew rules for a few months now - looking forward to going official.

...assuming they got someone other than the Kroot guys to write these, anyway.
>>
>>67188659
White Dwarf rules are usually the half-arsed output of some hack that had nothing better to do.
>>
>>67187241
>Termies are nice and I want to buy them but to be optimal I have to get shitty ass old berzerkers, that's what.
Man I love Eldar Rangers and they're perfect for Kill Team. Not only are they garbage in the actual game, to use them I have to deal with monopose resin cloak-blobs that defy customization.

If your problem is Berzerker models, just use the lovely new CSM with chainaxes and a paintjob - or a Forge World headpack if you're flush.

If your problem is Terminator rules, suck it up and learn to play with the models you like, same way everyone else does.

Either way, a CSM player has fuck-all room to complain about their model range.
>>
>>67188659
>where they're the absolute barebones minimum of what they can get away with

Look at what the factions got in the core book. Four lesser daemon datasheets would be perfectly equivalent.

The problem is these wishlisting faggots. Just look at kroot - Oh why didn't they get new units? Why didn't they get rules for discontinued forgeworld models? Why would you think either of those things was going to happen? They got rules for everything that Kroot had. The only thing missing was a commander.
>>
>>67187183
>Possessed were not awesome.
Possessed have solid models, they're just trash in 40k because some designer is convinced that Chaos = lolrandom. They're less trash in KT because that +1M and 2D attacks mean a little more, and you're only rolling attacks for one model instead of 5-10.

Unfortunately, they're still directly competing with Berzerkers, so...
>>
>>67188794
this, I expect nothing good from daemons.
It's going to be like
>haha take some bloodhounds with garbage rules xD
>>
>>67187081
>3 chaos termies for example or 3 loyalist termies, they are all suboptimal than meta soup
Fucking hell, have we really reached the point where taking more than one datasheet in an entire Faction qualified as "meta soup"?
>>
>>67188939
Poorfags gonna poorfag.
>>
>>67188939
don't bash my poorness
>>
>>67188998
Don't complain about game design when what you really mean is "I'm too poor".
>>
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>>67189051
I SAID STOP
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>>67189079
See >>67188987
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>>67188863
>They got rules for everything that Kroot had.
Except the Stealthy Hunters rule, which was dropped from their datasheet with no replacement or equivalent.

Or the grenades which are on their sprue and didn't get separate rules like an Auspex.

Or the knives that are on their sprue (including in their hands) and didn't get rules either.

Or the armor plates that are on their sprue and used to have rules in 3e, but were ignored in Kill Team.

Or the specialist ammo they had for sniping, that was dropped for 7e and not brought back for Kill Team.

Or any "adaptation" options that wouldn't have required new models or conversions. Or even a rule for fireteam advancements to represent guided evolution.

Or a "unit champion", or any other upgrades of that sort.

Or any worthwhile Tactics other than +1A/Krootox fight twice.

No, instead they copy-pasted the datasheet, dropped Stealthy Hunters because they couldn't even be bothered to adapt it like Cult Ambush, and called it good. Couldn't even be bothered to recost the models, which leaves Kroot as Kabalite Warriors with +1S and a 1pt discount, in exchange for -1Sv, -1BS, -1Ld, no PfP, and no special weapons. LESS than the bare minimum, because the bare minimum would have been functional.

Oh, and then they capped Krootox at 1 for some reason. No other non-"champion" model in the game is capped, including Tyranid monsters and Tau mecha, but god forbid Kroot have access to TWO BS4+ autocannons, that'd shatter the game.
>>
>>67188998
I'm not bashing your poorness, I'm just flabbergasted you'd say such ridiculous things if what you actually mean is "I wish all-Terminator kill teams were more viable because I only have them/like the models".
>>
>>67189194
Jesus Christ
>>
>>67189194
Here's a great example of those wishlisting faggots.

>hurr durr they didn't get all of these rules I want that don't exist in 8th.

Why would you expect them to? Stealthy Hunters is your only legitimate complaint there.

And Krootox were capped because everything with better than standard guns is capped. 1 is a bit harsh but they're all capped. Your "only champions are capped" is flat out wrong.
>>
>GW didn't bother to put stats for Power Klaw, choppa, big shoppa, slugga or kombi-weapons in elites book
This is inexcusable.
>haha you have it in core book goy xD
>>
>>67189277
Since you can't play without the core book I have no idea what your complaint is.
>>
>>67188904
DESU, I don't even WANT more than the basic lesser daemons. Plaguebearers tank, Daemonettes shred hordes, Bloodletters kill elites, Horrors blast at range. So long as those four datasheets are covered in useful (and dare I wish it, interesting?) ways, I can handle not having Nurglings, Flesh Hounds, or... whatever Tzeentch/Slaanesh models are considered acceptable. Just give me a solid core.

It's a shame the BL/Daemonette models are so one-note, though. The Horrors and PBs have enough bitz that you could introduce new KT-only options on their sheet if you were so inclined. Not so much for the other two.
>>
>>67189292
If you include weapon in the book have basic courtesy to add stats in the same book, for fuck sake.
>>
>>67189296
>interesting
>solid core
>useful
too much wishlisting
>>
>>67189302
Then you end up with mis-matched stats and changes needing to be errata'd in multiple places. That's the old GW method and it was shit.

Publishing statlines in only one book and referencing them is actually an improvement.
>>
>>67189194
>I wanted Kroot to get loads of super special new rules that don't exist in 40K.
>No, I don't care that no other faction got that for KT, my precious kroot should get it.
>Yes I will rant about it every time it comes up like a spoiled child.

This is exactly what I was talking about with unrealistic expectations.
>>
>>67189356
Then realistic expectations in every case are "it's going to be shit"
>>
>>67189194
>Oh, and then they capped Krootox at 1 for some reason. No other non-"champion" model in the game is capped, including Tyranid monsters and Tau mecha, but god forbid Kroot have access to TWO BS4+ autocannons, that'd shatter the game.
Are you seriously claiming that the krootox is not equivalent to a gunner (all of which are capped)?
>>
>>67189388
No-one got rules or equipment that isn't in 40K 8th.

On that basis all of the factions are shit so why are you in this thread?
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>>67189388
>If my faction doesn't get snowflake rules that don't exist in 40K then it's shit.
So fuck off and play inquisimunda. KT clearly isn't for you.
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>>67189447
succ my peepee
>>
>>67189457
Seriously - inquisimunda is the game you're looking for.
>>
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>>67185862

I'm taking her to ATC this week
>>
+Leader+ 31
>Boss Nob, kombi-weapon with scorcha, big choppa, cybork body
+Specs+ 25 16 20
>Nob, Power Klaw, slugga, cybork body - combat
>Nob, Power Stabba, slugga - veteran
>Nob, Killsaw, slugga - demolitions

95/100

How does this look?
>>
>>67189522
prove it
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>>67189584
Well, it's full of snowflakey shit that isn't in 40K which seems to be your criteria for something being good.
>>
>>67189584
>>67189633
It's also pretty clear that you don't play KT...
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>>67189595
>>67189573
you disgust me
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>>67187999
There is a mechanical impact to seperating them, if only for campaigns; having two seperate datasheets would split vanguard vets and all the others into seperate fireteams.
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>>67189658
True.
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>>67189573
>If everyone refuses to play with me, I automatically win
Brutal but cunning.
>>
Just bought a box of tyranid warriors. How should i build them?
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>>67189955
>How should i build them?
You snip out the bits, scrape them with the side of a knife blade and then glue them together.
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>>67189573
>>67189595
Anon delivers. Thank you.
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>>67189979
Sounds like a good start. Thanks mate.
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>>67189955
What's in your roster at the moment?
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>>67189955
You take them back to the shop and get a better faction
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>>67189999
Nothing, they're the start of it.
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>>67190002
As if Nids aren't solidly high-tier, moving to top tier with Kraken.

Or are you the faggot that's in every thread complaining about how he can't win with them?
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>>67189356
>I wanted Kroot to get loads of super special new rules that don't exist in 40K.
>No, I don't care that no other faction got that for KT, my precious kroot should get it.
Er, what? Just off the top of my head, Marines got Auspex and Transhuman Physiology, neither of which exist in 40k. Loads of other Kill Teams had rules changed significantly (e.g. Reanimation Protocols) or dropped entirely (e.g. Dakka Dakka, Mob Rule) because they didn't fit the style of Kill Team. Not to mention the whole Gunner/Fighter distinction is entirely new.

GW were never going to put any effort into Kroot, but other than the adaptations everything anon listed is on the sprue (like an auspex) or was an existing rule at some point.
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>>67189405
>Are you seriously claiming that the krootox is not equivalent to a gunner
And how many gunners can your kill team have? Because I'm willing to bet it's more than ONE.
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>>67190010
Well, three warriors isn't a team so you're going to need something else.

One gunner with venom cannon is absolutely essential.

For the others, death spitters are the best gun. The weapons are all pretty similar, you can go with whatever you fancy but boneswords for more attacks is a reliable choice.
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>>67189423
>No-one got rules or equipment that isn't in 40K 8th.
...pretty sure AdMech and Genestealer Cults did, no? Or are Omnispex and a free move a thing in 40k 8th?
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>>67190055
Yeah, i'll take my time with them, while trying to adhere to my "only one box per project at a time" rule, so i guess i'll buy another box next month.. Thanks for the suggestions.
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>>67190070
If you're going to include tactics then everyone, including kroot, got stuff.

And yes, the omnispex is a thing that has rules in 40K and does pretty much the same thing (removes cover saves)
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>>67189275
>Get called a wishlisting faggot because Kroot would need new models to have different options and make a decent kill team
>Agree that asking for units with no models for Kill Team is ridiculous
>List a bunch of existing models (Kroot with hunting knives, Kroot with grenades/special ammo, Kroot with armor) that don't have rules in kill team
>List a bunch of rules Kroot had in previous editions (and the current one) that would help them make a decent kill team
>Still get called a wishlisting faggot
I'm trying to work out if you really enjoy being given less than the bare minimum, or if you just sincerely hate Kroot.
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>>67190125
>If you're going to include tactics then everyone, including kroot, got stuff.
No, Cult Ambush is a free move that GC get in Kill Team. It's an ability, not a Tactic. I don't have their book, but I don't think I've seen anything like that in 40k.

>And yes, the omnispex is a thing that has rules in 40K and does pretty much the same thing (removes cover saves)
Huh. Learn something new every day. Figured it was like the Auspex, which hasn't had its own rules since like... 3e? 4e?
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>>67190243
>No, Cult Ambush is a free move that GC get in Kill Team. It's an ability, not a Tactic. I don't have their book, but I don't think I've seen anything like that in 40k.
They get the cult ambush rule which is the ability to deploy those models anywhere on the table 9" from enemy models. In KT they got a nerfed version of that.
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>>67190181
The KT unit entries are based on 40K 8th with minimal changes to accomodate the different systems.

There are VERY few actual additions to the KT datasheets. You listed more than any of the real factions got.

You also wanted special fireteam development rules. No-one got that.

You wanted a unit leader for a unit that doesn't have one in 40K. No-one got that.

You claimed that only champion models are capped. That's blatantly false.
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>>67190034
>Dakka Dakka
Didn't exist when Kill Team came out.
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>>67190034
>or was an existing rule at some point.
Please point out another datasheet that got four new weapons or wargear that don't exist in 40K (four were requested in that post for kroot).

Or even a datasheet that has two new weapons or wargear.
>>
>>67190181
>I'm trying to work out if you really enjoy being given less than the bare minimum, or if you just sincerely hate Kroot.
You asked for WAY more new content than any of the other factions got while getting more datasheets than a bunch of the other factions got.

That's why you're a faggot.
>>
>>67190243
>Figured it was like the Auspex, which hasn't had its own rules since like... 3e? 4e?
You do realise that admech have only been a playable faction for one previous edition, right?
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>>67186969
Okay, here's my roster:
1) Tyranid Prime Level 3 Fortitude
deathspitter, flesh hooks, boneswords, toxin glands.
2) Lictor Leader
3) Lictor
4) Tyranid Warrior Heavy with venom cannon, boneswords, flesh hooks, adrenal, toxin glands.
5) Tyranid Warrior Comms with deathspitter, boneswords, flesh hooks, adrenal, toxin glands.

6-14) = 9x Purestrains with enhanced carapaces. Includes:
>Leader with flesh hooks
>Combat with toxin sacs and acid maw
>Veteran
>Scout
15-20) = 6x Termagents:
>3x devourers + adrenals
>1x devourer
>2x fleshborers.

I only play once a fortnight against my friend. I have no close local gaming store. I was mainly against Tau, last game he switched to AdMech and his Sicarians chopped up my melee stuff and he perched the Skitarii on a roof edge and shot up my shooty stuff.
The only thing I can do to improve is change my roster and talk to him over where I'm making mistakes when I see them next (2 weeks). Yes, I can try playing his stuff and see things new I never thought of too (in 2 weeks, again).
I'm fucking depressed over losing, despairing is different to not showing interest into improving. It's hurt my pride.



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