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/sci/ - Science & Math

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How can light, something which has no mass, even exist? How can there be objects in the universe with no physical properties?

To be real you need to be made of something, something physical. So how can something exist but have no physical properties in this worl?
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>>14481935
>you need to be made of something
It's made of energy.
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>>14481935
light has physical properties
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>>14481935
I dont know
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>>14481938
>>14481940
alright, but isn't energy just mass times c squared

a photon's mass is zero, so how can it have energy?
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>>14481953
>alright, but isn't energy just mass times c squared
No. E=mc2 only applies for a motionless object. The full equation is E2 = (pc)2 + (mc2)2 where
E = energy
p = momentum (which massless particles do have)
m = rest mass
You can also determine a photon's energy from its wavelength and calculate momentum from that and the equation above.
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>>14481953
just another dark equation addition because scientist as usual were wrong so they had to add "special case"

Waste of time.
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>>14481953
light has momentum
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>>14482117
>light has momentum
>does it?
yeah gif unrelated
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>>14481935
>To be real you need to be made of something
nope.
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>>14481935
it doesn't have no mass, it just has no rest mass so it can never be at rest. it only has electromagnetic energy, which it can impart into things
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>>14481935

You got it backwards. Massless and timeless particles travelling forever at the speed of light are the default. The mass of particles arises from the interactions with the Higgs field and their own kinetic and potential energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKzgpt4HBU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo232kyTsO0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kixAljyfdqU

More

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msVuCEs8Ydo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GguAN1_JouQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHRqibyNMpw
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>>14481973
E=mc^2 is actually the special case you fucking mongoloid
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>>14481953
Emc^2 is a conversion rate from mass to energy not a formula for calculating something's mass.
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>>14482197
>You got it backwards. Massless and timeless particles travelling forever at the speed of light are the default. The mass of particles arises from the interactions with the Higgs field and their own kinetic and potential energy.

No. Stop watching popsci nonsense fag.
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>>14481935
>How can there be objects in the universe with no physical properties?
The same way the universe can exist even though it has no physical properties
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>>14481935
>>14481953
For light energy you use E = hf
h being Planck's constant
f being Frequency.
Light no mass but it has momentum and frequency which are physical properties.
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>>14481938
you need to be 18 to post here
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>>14483067
>and frequency
Frequency? How does nothing (no mass) have frequency? I don't understand.
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>>14482197
>High fields makes things heavier
OK so higgs field exist everywhere like aether?
How does field interaction give particle masses?
Wouldnt that just slow them down till they hit 0 velocity?
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>>14481953
Holy shit retard alert, have you never heard of Planck's Equation? Matter is one form of energy that's been condensed, you can convert it into pure energy releasing heat and light, it's not the only form of energy you stupid fucking fuck.
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>>14482679
Yeah doesnt exist either, just sad larp, here i can write "smart" equations too:
your=gay*2

You cant disprove it because i have jewish ethnicity so dont bother ill destroy you
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>>14483151
You have 0 proofs
You have 0 experiments
You have 0 data backing it up
You will never be a real scientist
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>>14483151
>have you never heard of Planck's Equation?

The kid has sussed the mysteries of life! OH WOW.
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>>14483151
>pure energy
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>>14481935
All particles are are stable states of quantum wave fluctuations. Light is just a visible and interactive particle that interacts so weakly with other fields that it doesn't have the same punch. No Higgs field, no substructure making it highly interactive. Is able to transmit momentum, though, I. E. Solar sails, which implies it's zero-point energy, essentially.
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>>14483177
>quantum wave fluctuations
What do they consist of?
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>>14483129
Light has wavelengths therefore it has frequency. Light can behave like a wave.
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>>14483177
wrong, none of that exists
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>>14483201
Ok, what does the wavelengths consist of? Wavelengths of what?
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>>14483148

The Higgs field is a scalar field, with two neutral and two electrically charged components that form a complex doublet of the weak isospin SU(2) symmetry. Unlike any other known quantum field, it has a "Mexican hat-shaped" potential. This shape means that below extremely high energies of about 159.5±1.5 GeV such as those seen during the first picosecond [math]10^{−12}[/math]s of the Big Bang, the Higgs field in its ground state takes less energy to have a nonzero vacuum expectation (value) than a zero value. Therefore in today's universe the Higgs field has a nonzero value everywhere (including otherwise empty space). This nonzero value in turn breaks the weak isospin SU(2) symmetry of the electroweak interaction everywhere. (Technically the non-zero expectation value converts the Lagrangian's Yukawa coupling terms into mass terms.) When this happens, three components of the Higgs field are "absorbed" by the SU(2) and U(1) gauge bosons (the "Higgs mechanism") to become the longitudinal components of the now-massive W and Z bosons of the weak force. The remaining electrically neutral component either manifests as a Higgs boson, or may couple separately to other particles known as fermions (via Yukawa couplings), causing these to acquire mass as well.

Below an extremely high temperature, electroweak symmetry breaking causes the electroweak interaction to manifest in part as the short-ranged weak force, which is carried by massive gauge bosons. In the history of the universe, electroweak symmetry breaking is believed to have happened at about 1 picosecond [math]10^{−12}[/math] after the Big Bang, when the universe was at a temperature 159.5±1.5 GeV. This symmetry breaking is required for atoms and other structures to form, as well as for nuclear reactions in stars, such as our Sun. The Higgs field is responsible for this symmetry breaking.
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>>14483210
Dont bother asking, they dont know.
They use photon energy interchangeably with wave length, it only exist in their heads and never was experimentally proven.
Your best bet is waves like in air or water, just with aether
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>>14483210
Of Photon energy aka Radiant energy.
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>>14483224

The Higgs field is pivotal in generating the masses of quarks and charged leptons (through Yukawa coupling) and the W and Z gauge bosons (through the Higgs mechanism).

It is worth noting that the Higgs field does not "create" mass out of nothing (which would violate the law of conservation of energy), nor is the Higgs field responsible for the mass of all particles. For example, approximately 99% of the mass of baryons (composite particles such as the proton and neutron), is due instead to quantum chromodynamic binding energy, which is the sum of the kinetic energies of quarks and the energies of the massless gluons mediating the strong interaction inside the baryons. In Higgs-based theories, the property of "mass" is a manifestation of potential energy transferred to fundamental particles when they interact ("couple") with the Higgs field, which had contained that mass in the form of energy.

The Higgs field is the only scalar (spin 0) field to be detected; all the other fields in the Standard Model are spin 1⁄2 fermions or spin 1 bosons. The existence proof of a scalar field is almost as important as the Higgs's role in determining the mass of other particles. It suggests that other hypothetical scalar fields suggested (inflaton) could exist as well.
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>>14483231
>aether
This sounds magical enough to better fill in the gaps at this rate.
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>>14483153
> * instead of ^
> your = gay*2 == your = 2*gay
> your = too gay
icwydt
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>>14483233
Ok.

What does photon energy aka radiation energy consist of?
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>>14483148

>Wouldnt that just slow them down till they hit 0 velocity?

The Higgs field isn't like molasses or like a crowd full of physicists. It doesn't act like friction, because friction slows down particles. The Higgs field doesn't slow particles down, it gives them inertia-- a resistance to acceleration. It makes them harder to speed up or slow down. And importantly, it prevents them from traveling at the speed of light.
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>>14483192
Same shit spacetime is made of. It's literally just like harmonic resonance, but in stable forms. Think of conways game of life, where you can have stable states that put out gliders, it's like that. The quantum fluctuations are basically just the resonance of the universe. Look up brane theory. It should help you understand better than I can explain.
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>>14483264
What you mean "consist of". You mean made of? Light/photons are fundamental, is not made of anything but themselves.
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Photon is a force carrier.
Mass is resistivity for acceleration due force F=ma.
Photon is the force (carrier). Thus it can not feel the force of itself.
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>>14483264

Photons are an excitation of the electromagnetic field and are bosons that acts as a force carrier.
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>>14483302
Photons are made of themselves? What is that then? Photons within photons? It goes on forever hmm, I guess that can work, because I'm always seeing endless photons within photons.

I see no reason to understand oxygen either, it's oxygen within oxygen going on forever. Like air within air, or wood within wood. But ah fuck it, lets add electrons to it, quarks, neutrons, protons.

Light is a lucky son of a bitch, it can just be itself, forever.

Inspirational really.
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>>14483302
>What you mean "consist of". You mean made of?

I know what you are made of, a lack of english language comprehension.
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>>14483335
Ah so photons are like the skidmarks of things that have some mass (bosons and electrons), that seems better.

Obviously I will just go what are electrons made of and what are bosons made of. But I'm sure science rather just stick to application level or give themselves a breather.
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>>14483355
>>14483376
Light and subatomic particles are fundamental, wood is not, there's no "turtles all the way down", some things are way above others, the end.
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>>14483302
>you can't prove me wrong because i used circular reasoning
>energy is made of photons which is made of energy which is made of photons which is made of energy which is made of photons which is made of energy which is made of photons which is made of energy which is why i know how it all works
nondisprovable conjectures are not part of science.
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>>14483426
If there are no turtles all the way down, i.e. there's only a single photon (in this case), you are saying it is just a photon and does not consist of more photons within itself , NOT going on forever; which to me seems neccessary for it to remain made up of itself:

So we have a photon that is magically just there.

The image of a photon, how is that light even there... if it isn't for 'turtles all the way down'.

IT'S JUST THERE.

BLOODY HELL!
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>>14483462
>>14483426
I forgot my HL2 puzzled face.
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Are gluons constantly being exchanged inside atoms or are they exchanged as the atom comes together and then no more?
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>>14483468
When a women and a man love each other very much, they, .. well .. it's too graphic, I can't tell you.
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>>14483264

Quantum Field Theory, QFT, describes ALL elementary particles as vibrational modes in fundamental fields that exist at all points in space and time through the universe. Quantum ElectroDynamics, QED, provides this description for one such field, the electromagnetic field.

Anyone who's ever strummed or shredded knows that a stretched string vibrates with a certain frequency when plucked. It also vibrates with an amplitude that depends on how hard you pluck it. A larger amplitude and/or larger frequency means the vibration carries more energy. At any point in time, every point on a vibrating string is displaced by some distance from its relaxed or equilibrium position, and that displacement changes over time as the string oscillates back and forth. Guitar strings are one-dimensional, but we can expand the analogy to any number of dimensions. In 2D, we have a membrane, like a drum skin. Everywhere on the surface of a vibrating drum skin there's a displacement from the flat equilibrium state in the up-down direction.

Let's go back to the string. If this were a quantum mechanical guitar string, then there'd be a minimum amplitude for the vibration that depended on its frequency. No vibrations with amplitude smaller than that minimum could exist and every larger vibration would have to be a whole number--an integer multiple of the smallest amplitude.

This is exactly how light behaves as was first realized by Max Planck and proved by Einstein. Light is a wave in the electromagnetic field. The electromagnetic field is similar to the density field in a room full of air. It has a value-- a field strength everywhere in the universe. That value is usually 0, but just like the string or the air density field it can oscillate. The electromagnetic field is a quantum field and so these oscillations have a minimum amplitude. The smallest possible oscillation above zero is an indivisible little packet of energy that we call a photon.
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>>14483444
>>14483462
Why are you like this, why do you need Light to be "made of something"?, it all just works fine already, there's no need for what you are implying.
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>>14481935
Show me the proof that something needs mass to exist.
You clearly don't understand what mass of energy are.
Do you know that there is no definite location for anything with mass? It is just a probability density of an excited field. The classical physics concepts you are used to are just how objects appear to you, but quantum physics and particle physics are the real studies of the nature of reality on its true level. Classical physics is the study of applicable physics as it applies on OUR human scale.

>>14482679
This is actually an intelligent post from someone who appears to understand.
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>To deny the Aether is ultimately to assume that empty space has no physical properties whatsoever.
And to think that people still deny its existence.
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>>14483625
>>14483245
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>>14483468

It is analogous to the exchange of photons in the electromagnetic force between two charged particles. Gluons bind quarks together, forming hadron (composite nuclear particles) such as protons and neutrons, pions. The strong force is by far the strongest fundamental force.

A gluon is an elementary particle that acts as the exchange particle (gauge boson) for the strong force between quarks. The gluon carries a "colour charge" (±red, ±green, and ±blue). It has nothing to do with everyday "colour". The term "colour" became popular simply because of the loose analogy to the primary colours because particle physicists suck at naming things. Quarks and gluons are the only fundamental particles that carry non-vanishing "colour" charge, and hence they participate in strong interactions only with each other. The net colour-charge of quarks forming hadrons essentially cancels out, resulting in a limit of the action of the colour-forces.

Whereas the electric field between electrically charged particles decreases rapidly as those particles are separated, the gluon field between a pair of colour charges forms a narrow flux tube (or string) between them. Because of this behaviour of the gluon field, the strong force between the particles is constant regardless of their separation.

The strong force acts between quarks and we have never observed a quark on its own. Attempting to separate them produces new hadrons (mesons and baryons) instead of emitting freely moving gluon radiation or free quarks. This property of the strong force is called colour confinement, and it prevents the free "emission" of the strong force: instead, in practice, jets of massive particles are produced.

The rules are detailed in the theory of quantum chromodynamics (QCD), which is the theory of quark–gluon interactions. The equations of QCD remain unsolved at energy scales relevant for describing atomic nuclei.
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>>14483417

Quantum field theory postulates that all particles are also oscillations in quantum fields (including the particles that constitute matter). Every base elementary particle has its own field. It is its own field. Fields are fundamental and particles and their antimatter counterparts are just ways in which that field vibrates. There's an electron field whose oscillations are what we know as the electron and the antielectron. There are fields for every type of quark-antiquark pair, for every type of force-carrying particle-- so-called bosons, like photons and gluons--and of course for the famous Higgs boson, which is just an oscillation in the Higgs field. These fields interact with each other according to a series of rules.
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>>14481935

Conciousness has no mass or physical properties either. You mad?
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>>14483799
it doesn't?
incinerate yourself and see if you're still conscious afterwards
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>>14483521
If photons are just photons... why there are many different photons based on wavelength? If its not the speed of photon then what? Autistic streetching in 15D dimension? prove it
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>>14483285
>>14483297
So you mean theres stationary frame aether
While denying aether exists
yeah makes sense...
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>>14484771
Call it whatever you want, it's the mathematics of observed reality and observable effects of mathematics.
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>>14481972
>which massless particles do have
then why is equation for momentum p=mv?
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>>14481935
>How can light, something which has no mass, even exist?
light is just a electric and magnetic field. It's not a puzzle box, particle, or probability.
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>>14483507
>that displacement changes over time as the string oscillates back and forth
>over time
I don't understand how does energy gets lost over time? Also your description doesn't explain how waves travel with a speed of light. In the string example the wave just happens on the whole length of string but how is it in reality where string would have infinite length.
Lets say that someone pulls the string at one point. then the wave will spread in both direction with speed of light infinitely if I understand correctly. So what will happen if after very long amount of time someone stops the wave forcibly at one point? Will the wave stop at all its very long length instantly? If not what if there would be a lot more hands to stop the wave every very far distance from each other? Would every hand gain this photon or just a fraction of it?

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