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could it/ is it happening to humans?
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>>13749962
already debooknked sweaty
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>>13749962
Siege of Jerusalem 77 AD
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>>
mmm dopamine
goodnight c:
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Density versus crowding. Various technological factors are making the world seem smaller psychologically. That's crowding. Density is not harmful per se.
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>>13749962
There's no way to know. Humans are not mice, and population density is clearly not the only rapidly changing factor that's affecting human social dynamics. Whatever the intent of the researchers was in conducting this experiment, its coverage and popularization is a clear example of propaganda, because there's always the underlying implication that the absolutely horrid system we're living under is providing for all of our needs, just like the mouse utopia provided the mice with everything they need, and that everyone is getting miserable and dysfunctional because there's just too many people. It shouldn't be too hard to see who's promoting this narrative and why they're doing so.
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>>13749962
>has no sex
Sounds like it's happening to 4chan
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>>13750097
Ahaha good one.
But this experiment is correlated to the restriction of freedom, and heavy monitoring.
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>>13749962
mice release fear pheromones in their urine the overpopulation multiplies it as they all feed of each other's fear.
it's one problem with social media.
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>>13750110
>mice release fear pheromones in their urine the overpopulation multiplies it as they all feed of each other's fear.
That's a possible explanation. I find it very telling that no attempts have been made to even replicate that experiment, let alone determine the actual mechanism in play by testing hypotheses more specific than "too many mice". Also, why aren't they trying it out with other social animals? If this Mouse Utopia experiment is so important, why isn't it followed up with anything more advanced and rigorous? Why is it only ever brought up in the context of pushing a particular sociopolitical narrative?
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>>13750140
Have you read up on mouse plagues? you see similar expansions and collapses in a few different places
I don't know if it would interest you but I made a thread two years ago with a somewhat related subject based on the effect of genetic relatedness on population dynamics.
https://boards.fireden.net/sci/thread/11265272

I was going to dig into it more but got waylayed by the corona nonsense.
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>>13750158
I'm not sure how that addresses the points I brought up.
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>>13750164
I know it's not directly related but I remember there were some papers on insect population dynamics in species like bark beetles where the populations would only expand so far before collapsing, or sibly's paper comparing population size against growth rate collated from multiple species.
There seems to be a social effect but I think there's a sort of genetic or epigenetic effect to.
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>>13750177
>papers on insect population dynamics in species like bark beetles where the populations would only expand so far before collapsing
Have any specific mechanisms behind the collapse been identified? How should we know when extrapolation to other species is appropriate?

>paper comparing population size against growth rate collated from multiple species
In the wild, or under "utopian" conditions where all members of the population are provided for?
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>>13750187
It's an interesting paper, give it a read yourself since it's not that long.
https://files.catbox.moe/5ojyg4.pdf
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>>13750105
not really, the mice don't have a clue they are monitored.
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>>13750226
They knew. I asked.
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>>13750225
To me it looks like instead of addressing criticism directly, you choose to ignore it and instead vaguely imply that the research supports your political meme.
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>>13750238
political meme?
I just wanted to point out an avenue of research I found interesting and thought you might find a helpful to understand part of what's going on.
Calhoon's mouse/rat utopia experiment is an interesting experiment, we do see equivolents for the various mice such as the beautiful ones in human society.
the extended lack of external predation stress on a small prey species with ample resources is a complex topic, it is odd that it hasn't been replicated.
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>>13750267
>I just wanted to point out an avenue of research I found interesting
Thanks, anon, but as far as I can tell, your paper examines population growth under natural constraints from the environment.

>we do see equivolents for the various mice such as the beautiful ones in human society.
Yes, we do see socially dysfunctional individuals. I'm just wondering whether research has been done to establish that it is in any way related to population growth per se.
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>>13750292
I think my research into biological mechanisms seems to be a different line from the proposed social mechanisms.
See one of the studies I remember was researching the effect of pollen tube set in flowering plants and their relatedness.
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>>13749962
yes, look at japs
despite being developed nation they have a high suicide rate
compare that to third worlders
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>>13750097
it's the opposite, behavioral sink makes people randomly rape anyone even your own family members
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>>13750596
Japan is suffering from depopulation.
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>>13750030
>the underlying implication that the absolutely horrid system we're living under is providing for all of our needs, just like the mouse utopia provided the mice with everything they need
We have literal rapists and murderers that are being DEFENDED by the "justice system." As Uncle Ted notes, our "mental health care" system is a system of pacification and tranquilization, not healing.
On an intellectual level, this is a horrifying dystopia, but we don't see mass riots in the streets over everyday injustices, only when the propaganda machine amplifies a selected crisis for their own gain.
Clearly, YES, the System IS providing for all the needs most people have to keep them obedient slaves. No one gives a fuck that literal experimental gene therapy is being foisted on them. They have McDonalds and Instagram butt girls, damn right their basic needs are all taken care of.
>because there's just too many people
There are.
>It shouldn't be too hard to see who's promoting this narrative and why they're doing so
You make an interesting point but it's almost immediately refuted when you realize the average normie has no idea about the mouse utopia experiment. Its apparent oversaturation in media is more likely the result of what you're consooming personally (I'm guessing 4chan and youtube).
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>>13749966
OMG his name is sweets
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>>13750600
Write down the names of some of those people. You can't? Then it isn't happening; stop posting lies.
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>>13751160
>Clearly, YES, the System IS providing for all the needs most people have to keep them obedient slaves
Most people don't even get enough sunlight, exercise, sex, or adequate sleep, and that's without getting into psychological needs. What keeps them obedient is the insane delusion that their needs just to happen to coincide with that which the industrial/materialist/capitalist system provides in abundance; in reality, what we have is stuff that we've evolved to do without, meanwhile we're being deprived of the bare basics that humanity would take for granted throughout most of its existence.

>the average normie has no idea about the mouse utopia experiment.
The Mouse Utopia garbage and other depopulation propaganda is promulgated by literally every teenage intellectual poser.
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>>13751266
>The Mouse Utopia garbage and other depopulation propaganda is promulgated by literally every teenage intellectual poser.
for good reason. Its a perfect way of introducing people to how certain societal conditions can have psychological effects on people
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>>13750600
Not exactly.
The sink established a split in the population consisting of a minority of alpha males and a majority of lower class males. The alpha males established harems and worked themselves ragged trying to defend their territory.
The lower class males suffered from a variety of dysfunctions which, in some cases, included extreme sexual aggression.
However, the truly pronounced effects of the utopia experiment impacted the offspring of the beleaguered females. Due to having to repel the advances of the lower class male population on a near constant basis, the females were unable to perform the proper nest-building and child-care rituals, resulting in high infant mortality rates and a warping of the surviving children's behavioral development.
These dysfunctions were documented to typically manifest in the following ways:
> Pansexuals: Defined by submissive behavior and a tendency to attempt to mate with any other mouse, regardless of age or sex.
> Somnambulists: Defined by isolationist behavior. Would slowly and carefully move throughout the enclosure, avoiding interaction with any other mouse.
> Probers: Defined by hyperactive and violently predatory sexual behavior. Will aggressively pursue and forcefully mate with females, often harming other mice - including pups - in the process.

There are certainly are parallels which can be drawn between this experiment and contemporary human society.
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>>13749962
WE AREN'T MICE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE STOP NOTICING THAT SOCIETY IS BREAKING DOWN
>reddit
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>>13751504
Too bad this idea has zero actual scientific backing. You're brainwashed.
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>>13752161
>stimuli do not affect organisms
you are a retard
>You're brainwashed.
how? literally all I said was that adverse conditions when prevalent in social groups can change the mental state of individuals.
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>>13752245
You're clearly mentally ill.
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>>13752272
maybe its societies fault
Checkmate
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>>13752294
Call me back when you take your meds and realize your meme experiment is about mice rather than humans.
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>>13752294
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>>13752310
this is what I tell medical researchers when they talk about their gay "vaccine research"
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>>13752322
Medical research is rife with scams and corruption, but even their quacks realize they need something stronger than "it works on mice". Anyway, like all Mouse Utopia believers, you're a delusional nonhuman, so I'm gonna have to end this conversation here.
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>>13752336
>Mouse Utopia believers
all I said was that its a good way to introduce people to behavioral phycology. You are delusional
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>>13751266
>in reality, what we have is stuff that we've evolved to do without, meanwhile we're being deprived of the bare basics that humanity would take for granted throughout most of its existence
Sounds like qualitative nonsense if you're in the business of power. Are calories being provided? Are dopamine and serotonin being released? Are subscription numbers going up? Then people are clearly using the services to meet their "needs"; that they are brainwashed is your own assessment of their condition. I have evidence of my thesis, which is that because protests like OWS were swapped out for BLM, the people are in a state of controlled somnambulism only a black swan event could truly disrupt. I have evidence for my thesis, you have "feelings."

>The Mouse Utopia garbage and other depopulation propaganda is promulgated by literally every teenage intellectual poser.
Wow, so like a few million youtube views, half of which are indian bots?
Seriously you sound like you don't get out much. Go to a bar and talk to a girl about the Mouse Utopia, I bet you $100 she's never heard of it. Who knows, you might even lose your virginity.
>>13752161
>>13752272
>>13752310
>>13752336
You clearly have some sort of mental issue and personal agenda in getting people to ignore the mouse utopia. I question your motives, you are not playing in good faith
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its already happened anon
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>>13752642
Alright, retard. Reminder that no scientific evidence has been provided to demonstrate any connection whatsoever between your political meme and the current state of humanity.
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>>13749962
Bitcoin.
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This is just cruelty; it isn't science. It's an attempt, I suppose to develop mouse or rat prostitution, imitating human prostitution. However, these dubious "experiments" never mention the obvious goal of producing deviant sexual behavior in the rodent population but rather claim to be constructing some "utopia" according to parameters that are undisclosed and a design that appears to be inspired from totalitarian brutality and Satanic ritual sacrifice.
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>>13754295
>>13754312
>Reminder that no scientific evidence has been provided to demonstrate any connection whatsoever between your political meme and the current state of humanity
One Jewish psychologist did a study of some high schools, and the Jewish field of psychology considered the case closed. Wow.
The original paper by Calhoun "Population Density and Social Pathology" is plenty comprehensive, you're just a brainlet.
>ccording to parameters that are undisclosed and a design that appears to be inspired from totalitarian brutality and Satanic ritual sacrifice
The experiment is literally just "what happens if we completely satiate the lowest tier of Maslow's hierarchy"
You are disturbed dude, you actually need meds. You'd be better off as a benzodiazepine-sedated zombie than preserving your absolutely
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http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/2016/12/human-mouse-utopia-due-to-mutation.html?m=1

Heres a good blog post suggesting the breakdown was to do with genes and that it might be happening to us. He uses england as an example, but it applies to pretty much any developed country with low infant mortality.
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>>13750105
>implying we’re not slaves to the evil leviathan (technology)
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>>13750612
Just like the rats did after 3 years. They just stopped having sex
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>>13754295
>Reminder that no scientific evidence has been provided to demonstrate any connection whatsoever between your political meme and the current state of humanity
its not nice to lie anon
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The mouse utopia experiment isn't about societal degradation or overpopulation or mutation accumulation. It was far too short for deleterious mutations to occur, humans aren't mice, and all population sizes are relative. No, it's an illustration of how species adapt to mortality. For the most part, you can't just take a species which is adapted to a high mortality environment (mice, rats, other rodents) and immediately place them into a completely mortality free environment. Mice have massive litters with the assumption that half of them will be lost to predators, and they are, so that the adult population is usually always a fixed number or changes relatively slowly. The number of adults in the population gives mice the que to choose how many litters they have, more adults -> fewer litters, fewer adults -> more litters, in an attempt to balance the population size. Yet when you put them in the utopia it's almost like a supernormal stimulus, it makes their natural behavior go haywire and their population numbers oscillates out of control until they die off.

This probably wont happen to humans
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>>13755555
checked
>This probably wont happen to humans
except it is since the last 70 years have ushered in new generation after generation of men that arent dying in war
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>>13755563
It wont happen in Europe, at least. East Asia I'm skeptical, since their populations ballooned from an extremely small size to far surpassing Europe in only 50 years. They have generally worse fertility trajectories than the west, everything points to them overshooting the critical population size. South Asia may also be in trouble too.
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>>13754479
I wonder how this ties with the outbreeding and fertility rate effects?
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>>13749962
yes



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