[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/sci/ - Science & Math

[Advertise on 4chan]


Thread archived.
You cannot reply anymore.


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: acupuncture-post.jpg (51 KB, 755x350)
51 KB
51 KB JPG
Why does it work?
>>
>>13262521
>Why does it work?
Because you want it to work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo
>>
micro-inflammation something something disrupts nerve signals
>>
>>13262534
yeah something about stimulating nerve pathways
>>
File: pins.png (366 KB, 671x611)
366 KB
366 KB PNG
IT JUST WORKS BRO
>>
>>13262521
But it doesn’t, and when it “does” it’s a placebo effect
>>
File: pins2.jpg (1001 KB, 2732x2291)
1001 KB
1001 KB JPG
Imagine trusting Eastern Medicine
Eastern Massage is almost all bullshit
Western Massage is better and more medically accurate because we invented western medicine

t. studied Eastern Medicine related to massage for 6 months in Massage Therapy school
(The other 6 months spent studying western massage actually makes sense)
>>
File: Pins3.png (376 KB, 868x690)
376 KB
376 KB PNG
>>
>muh placebo
If it works, it's as good as the real thing.
>>
>>13262576
>my knees hurt
>better go break off a bunch of needles in it!
>>
>>13262529
>>13262563
>>13262577
The placebo effect appears to be one of the most powerful forces in medicine and no one who studies it is taken seriously.
>>
>>13262576
>>13262567
>>13262556
Holy fuck why do they break off so easily?
>>
>>13262577
>>13262753
This.
>>
File: 1362686076965.jpg (47 KB, 348x383)
47 KB
47 KB JPG
>>13262586
MUH CHAKRAS
>>
>>13262753
Will power is an great untapped potential.
>>
>>13262556
>>13262567
>>13262576
How would you even get these out?
>>
>>13262521
Probably a variety of reasons, from stimulating nerves to breaking up bound fascia.

>>13262563
If it placebo'd away the inflammation in my big toe (objectively observable) that's pretty impressive.
>>
>>13262991
Have a lot of money so you can have as many surgeries as you need to have them removed.
>>
>>13262753
>no one who studies it is taken seriously
What the fuck you mean they aren't taken seriously? We know that it is a thing. It has been studied. It's just that you can't use it if you're a doctor because the patient has ways to know you're prescribing him just sugar, and also you could open yourself up for some lawsuits.
>>
>>13262991
put them in an mri and turn it on
>>
>>13262774
the needles are thin as fuck
>>
>>13262753
most important is anti placebo effect. curse. covid is recent example.
>>
>>13263100
>It's just that you can't use it if you're a doctor because the patient has ways to know you're prescribing him just sugar
PE works even if you know you've been given a sugar pill
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/03/placebos
Doctors don't use it because it's free.
>>
>>13263206
It also doesn't work on unconscious people. We gonna start sugar-pilling people in a medical coma or worse, use placebo for anesthetics?
>>
>>13262576
>>13262567
>>13262556
this cant be normal or good
>>
>>13263206
i always thought i was special for my ability to treat myself with placebo
>>
>>13263253
I'm not suggesting we replace all medicine with placebos, dum-dum
>>
>>13262991
really big strong magnet
>>
>>13262992
Wow, it helped with a condition that the body normally gets better with no outside help? That's incredible.
>>
>>13262753
The placebo effect is studied in literally every drug trial and we consistently find drugs that surpass its ability.
>>
>>13262521
It's weird. It works because people think it works. I have a French teacher who had some sort of neck pain back in high school. Doctors have no idea what the fuck is wrong with her. Every hour or so, she would have such an intense neck pain, she would crane her neck to one side, and keep it there with one of her hands. Sometimes she'd go an entire class with her neck craned.

One student there (who's Chinese) recommended her to get free acupuncture sessions at her family's clinic. This was halfway through the 2nd term. For the rest of the school year, she never had neck pain again, and never had to crank her head to one side to alleviate it.

Either it works through some sort of unexplainable mechanism, or placebo solved her chronic neck pain attacks.
>>
>>13263206
>Doctors don't use it because it's free.
'Does it work better than placebos?' is literally what's being tested when we trial most medical interventions.
>>
>>13262529

I've had this clear sinus congestion before. If medicine thinks it's a placebo, medicine needs to investigate placebos more.
>>
>>13265322
>Every hour or so, she would have such an intense neck pain, she would crane her neck to one side, and keep it there with one of her hands.
sounds like she was creating her neck pain
>>
>>13264612
My toe had been inflamed basically my entire life. It got better only after a few rounds of acupuncture.

What's more incredible is your active desire to remain ignorant.
>>
>>13265322
>Either it works through some sort of unexplainable mechanism

The Chinese have entire books dedicated to the theory behind it. We just don't want to believe it because we'd rather do medicine that justifies huge profits and lots of expensive equipment.
>>
>>13262529
Okay so how does placebo work?
>>
>>13263100
You americans have an issue with your legal system.
>>
>>13266848
Profits matter man. Even if we could explain acupuncture better than chinese and make really useful, putting cheaply made needles doesn't make money.
>>
>>13262556
>>13262567
WHAT THE FUCK
>>
>>13262521
I seriously doubt physiology of nervous system is advanced enough to answer this question of yours. Maybe you should make some good science in this field.
>>
>>13265577
>sounds like she was creating her neck pain

How so? Her neck had pain on one side, so she had to turn it to the other to alleviate the pain.
>>
>>13262529
Placebo doesn't work on dogs, yet it seems to work really well in my Dachshund. I had acupuncture before, the places they puncture you helps relaxing.
>>
>>13267043
lol, turning your whole neck off center and holding it there is only going to cause your other side to hurt in the long run.

idk it coulda been a lot of things, pinched nerve somewhere, maybe semi-slipped disc? or maybe even worn/pulled muscles and bruised tendons, possibly from the craning of ones neck
>>
>>13267058
hahahaha imagine torturing your dog because it showed pain. uh huh, you cured your dog big time

please stop being alive for the sake of humanity
>>
>>13267118
Have you ever heard of slipped disc? The dog was in constant pain regardless of the high dose of painkillers. In the height of the pain crisis we took it to acupuncture as a last resort before putting her down, and it worked wonders. Now she takes a lower dose and lives normally. When we see that the painkillers are not working properly, we take her to a session, and it "resets" the pain.
>>
>>13266848
This sounds like it makes sense, except if it were true, then the Chinese would monopolize this market with their magic medicine as that would net more money than right now.
>>
>>13267153
you fucking idiot.
>>
>>13266896
>The purpose of medicine is making money, not health

This is the problem with western medicine, it has its priorities backwards. Money is simply a means, it should not be an ends. But this is screwing up our entire society as people care more about dollar signs than accomplishments.

>>13267312
Most people trust what their authorities tell them. How many people pay out their ass for surgeries and medications that end up not being effective (a lot, in my experience). Just because it works doesn't mean it will gain popularity. Most people are incapable of questioning their doctor.
>>
>>13267118
You are a disgusting waste of flesh.
>>
>>13267323
Why am I an idiot if the dog is feeling way less pain? Should I tell the dog that she is a sheep that believes in pseudo-science and that it is all a placebo in her mind?
>>
>>13262521
it doesn't
>>
>>13262576
These are purposefully put inside and brokem by the way, usually made of gold. It's for continued stimulation, whatever that may mean. Personally after that one movie scene of one dude falling on the floor with needles all over him I'm entirely terrified.
>>
File: 1622886286986.jpg (31 KB, 960x960)
31 KB
31 KB JPG
>>13262576
This must hurt a lot, holy shit. Fucking alt medicine not even once.
>>
>>13267116
No, like I said, she went to doctors and specialists and none of them knew what's wrong with her. It only hurts one way, and it doesn't hurt "the other way" when she turns her neck.
>>
>>13263101
>>13263696
You joke, but what would actually happen if this guy stepped in MRI scanner? Would he just die? I mean some of them probabaly dont know they have metal pieces in their body from acupuncture
>>
>>13262556
>>13262567
>>13262576
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
>>
>>13263204
I was listening to a lecture about witches and how many were realistically burned, and there's a story out of Britain where an old man made an old lady drop an egg, or some such, and she was so mad that she cursed him. He ended up dying on the spot. It's thought that this particular old lady was actually thought to be a prominent witch of the time, and that the act of getting cursed from someone like that put such a strain on his body that he had a heart attack and died. No having meant to killed him, the old lady turned herself in. She was unironically executed for it.
>>
>>13262753
Jesus was onto something with the whole faith can move mountains thing.



Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.