Listen up, /sci/. I'm so fucked. I got some bullshit arthritis overnight. Pic related is a stock pic, but it looks very similar.I've seen pics of how it ends and it is horrible.Please explain to me, how in the fuck can the body attack itself? It is appalling that doctors are Ok with this stupid "autoimmunity" explanation. I'd rather believe that the body IS in fact attacking something deep into the joints. Or maybe something in our environment is triggering it. Is there any relevant investigation trying to shed some light on this? Apparently doctors are fine with treating diseases of UNKNOWN causes with chemotherapy drugs from the 1950s.
>>13066879Evolutionarily, it is much easier to live with an immune system that attacks too much rather than one that attacks too little
>>13066915>living with disabled hands and feet>easier
>>13066926It usually happens at a late age. Evolution wouldnt care if you have disabled hands at 50 when you survived childhood and popped out 10 children.
>>13066879Doctors don’t actually understand what is going on, scientists do quite well. Protip: you might be eating shit food
>>13066936I'm not nearly that old. This is not osteoarthritis.
I had one of these spontaneous arthritis things. I couldn't walk without assistance for a good four months and I was in constant awful pain. Then it went away entirely and I haven't so much as felt a twinge in years. Don't give up hope anon
>>13066964I'm eating healthy, /anon/.But you might be onto something. Something bad might be in the food.
I thought auto immunity was pretty well understood, What makes you think it is bullshit?
>>13066982It has been 2 months already. Got blood tests done, but my female GP is retarded and completely dismissed my hands problem. She suggested me to go to an specialist to further investigate my slightly high sugar levels.Why are female doctors so incompetent?
>>13067000The causes of most "autoimmune" diseases are not known yet.
>>13066973You are just a genetic dead end. Dont reproduce and go an hero.Evolutionary speaking, you are the type of person that is supposed to die out without reproducing.
>>13067040>Evolutionary speaking, you are the type of person that is supposed to die out without reproducingThis disease is not the product of evolution. I think it has been induced by something I've been exposed to.
>>13067084>Most people are exposed to the same thing and are fine>You are exposed to it and become a crippleGo an hero you genetic dead end lmao
>>13067084>This disease is not the product of evolution.All diseases are the product of evolution. Same with accidents. You didn't evolve to survive falling off your roof too bad.
>>13067031The causes were established long ago, people chose to reject them because it faulted their behavior. For over 2000 years from Galen to Gilbert two principle contributors to inflammation were noted. First, meal frequency. The lack of fasting and frequent intake of meals prevents healing. Mechanisms are now establish that prove their long heralded benefits which used to be mocked. Second, sexual excess causes autoimmune disease. This is seen quite clearly with the elevation of prostaglandins following orgasm. Gilbert of England observed this to be a cause of arthritis. My psoriasis and arthritis have resolved upon adopting intermittent fasting and reducing masturbation to no more than 2 times a month from what used to be 4 times a day.
>>13066926>living while your immune system is just chilling with cholera completely fucking up your intestines resulting in severe diarrhea and dehydration after you drank from the community water hole>easier
>>13067019Not female doctors, just doctors in general tend to be pretty dismissive. Probably because they're used to patients suggesting they have cancer because of something small like a sore throat.
>>13067099In a sense, since time never stops, everything evolves.But I meant natural evolution.
>>13067126I'm already a no-fapp fag, but will try fasting.
>>13067165All evolution is natural evolution. Unless you are claiming someone purposefully rewrote your genome to make you allergic or whatever.
>>13066983go keto unironically
>>13066879Look into gout
>>13066879Look into Shawn Baker's work
>>13067152I went to the (female) reumatologist. There is light years of difference with my (male) endocrinologist. This cunt didn't even listen. She was supposed to prescribe additional RA-specific blood markers, and she didn't. She told me to take over the counter AINEs, which I told her twice that didn't work!I lost another month.Fuck women, the Japanese are right in not admitting them to medical schools.
>>13066879its 100% dietfull stopi cant tell you what to do about it but autoimmune the way we approach it is memes. its all diet.
>>13066879try this for like a monthdo a fast. 2 days, no water. youll feel like youre dyingif you really must drink water, add some himalayan rock salt and potassium "salt" for electrolytes. but try to go 2 full days withoutcongratulations, youre now going to be a ketogenic vegetarian for a monthsource organics from locals if possibleeliminate all carbohydrates that are not plant-fiber based (starches dont count)make your body run off fats. nuts, oils, avocados. never cook your oils, dont let the oxidize. make whatever meals you want with nuts, any vegetables, oils, and eggs. don't cook your eggs, consume them raw. again buy local if possible. juice vegetables as well.avoid salted nuts.eat fermented foods <<<you can eat as much of this stuff as you want. fast for 24 hours on the weekends.look into purchasing some quality water for the month, dont drink from the tap. if you feel at all fatigued, consume more nuts and raw eggs. if that's not doing it for you, have some fish and/or a piece of fruit, but ideally avoid all carbs. just a recommendation of self experimentation for a weekidk you, your body, your diet, anything like that, but autoimmune is diet oriented, full stop.
>>13069117>just a recommendation of self experimentation for a weeka month***
I have several autoimmune/rheumatological disorders. The immune system, in these cases, is hyperactive and attacks everything. Self receptors are mislearned as foreign. Allergy therapy shots may be able to reteach the immune system to recognize self receptors as being seperate from foreign; I start allergy therapy in a few weeks.
>>13067089You're not a bright one, are you?
>>13067040Human evolutionary fitness isn't determined only by physical fitness but also mental traits, hence why Jews who are riddled with genetic health problems, are highly prolific and have the world by the balls
>>13066879Autoimmunity is caused by gut issues, go on a carnivore diet for a while until symptoms are gone, then add things back gradually to determine which foods are problematic
>>13067169Fasting really does help, I will have mild flair ups of some kind of eczema when I start eating too frequently. The moment I fast or eat less often shit will magically vanish. I personally believe humans were never designed to eat more than once a day, the three meal system is one of grand excess.
>>13069117>fastingB... but I'll be hungry... I can't function an entire day without food...I need food...
>>13069219This guy knows.
>>13067019>slightly high sugar levelsArthritis has no cure, you idiot.Sugar does cause inflammation and arthritis is an inflammation of the joints, so she might be onto something and trying to make it better.
>>13069429I'll be doing a sugar test soon.But my sugar levels have been high for months and arthritis didn't show up...
>>13069385alright bro well maybe ur boyfriend will enjoy ur new anal bead fingers
>>13069292>oh no i went vegetarian for a month and potential fixed my frankenhands you guys are such faggotsnone of you experiment. just repeat pubmed dogma
>>13069219also this tooi would recommend trying a vegan/vegetarian diet without carbsif that doesn't workand a carnivore diet without carbsor vice versayour issues are gut related thoughand if ur posting fat memes, and all u took from my post was that you cant go without food for a dayim gonna go ahead and assume your diet is pure garbagereap what you s o y
>>13069701>you guys are such faggots>none of you experiment. just repeat pubmed dogma>waaah it just werks it just werks stop believing scientists! waaaahIf it works then why dont the elderly with arthritis get cured? You know even the ones that eat vegetarian? Why is it always anecdotal evidence from people who have a grudge with doctors and/or scientists?
>>13066879Did you take the vaccine?
>>13069755>>waaah it just werks it just werks stop believing scientists! waaaahim not about to puke a bunch of sourcesautoimmune disorders are diet. some other poster chimed in and said the sameeither way you source faggots are eternally subject to what finance and social engineers want you to seehence why experimentation is superior what i have a grudge with is bums like you who need to be spoonfed everything over exploring for yourself
>>13069780>what i have a grudge with is bums like you who need to be spoonfed everything over exploring for yourselfGreat of you to ignore all the vegans/vegetarians with auto-immune diseases. Go explore lead between your head. I'ms sure you'll explode with all the new ideas smug fuckhead.
>>13066936having able-bodied grandparents around to care for the young of productive adults is a good thing actually
>>13069786autoimmune problems aren't default solved by veganism the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new oneexperiment until one worksalternatively OP could try a fecal transplant or poop pillsyoure still a source sucking faggot
also OP do you eat a lot of canned food
>>13069808>autoimmune problems aren't default solved by veganism>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>experiment until one works>goal posts movedYet even people with fecal transplants or on broad spectrum AB keep their auto-immune disease. What's your next excuse?Only faggot is you, a brainless retard spouting random crap actively trying to harm any actual useful discussion.
>>13069847>>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one>the point is its a gut issue, and you need to flush the biome and introduce a new one
>>13069798The notion that evolution "doesn't care" about us after we reach ~35 is hilariously retarded, butIf that were true then we would be dropping dead pretty soon after 35, not living with relatively good health until ~65It's obvious that living for a few decades after already having reproduced is an evolved trait in humans, which improved the fitness of populations who had it, because old people could share wisdom with the young people, allowing the development of more complex cultures
>>13069882Wow you really are retarded aren't you? Did you miss this part?>Yet even people with fecal transplants or on broad spectrum AB keep their auto-immune disease.Oh no you didn't you just have 0 clue on how they work and just assume they don't. Sadly they are exactly what you describe and don't fix shit. You are so dumd kek.
>>13069894Plenty of people have experienced total remission of AI symptoms on a carnivore diet, see Jordan Pleberson and his daughter
>>13069905>AI symptomsIBD isn't the only form of auto-immunity nor the one presented by OP. Most of the pathology is just unkown, but people spouting: just go vegan and change your gut dont listen to the docs. Are retarded charlatans undermining any valid therapy/reasoning.
>>13069946It's not just IBD. Jordan Peterson's daughter had to have hip and ankle replacements in her teens. She claims carnivore cured her.I had a range of AI issues (eczema, IBD, joint pain) which nearly disappeared while on carnivore
>>13069905>>13069983>Plenty of people have experienced total remission of AI symptoms on a carnivore diet, see Jordan Pleberson and his daughternot the guy you were talking to but sounds like placebo if there isn't a pathological explanation. if carnivore diet suppresses immunity then you would experience less symptoms but that's not really something that can't be done pharmacologically.the whole idea about carbs causing oxidative stress is really misleading since fat also causes oxidative stress (by the metrics keto and carnivoretards use)
>>13066879I heard that those aunoimmune cells learnt to attack some protein of some std bacteria and after they finished with that bacteria they find that very protein in our joints, which are by coincidence always were there. I also heard that eating some gelatin products (some calf-foot-jelly, for example) is reconstruction those joints. I also read that thc cures all auto-immune disorders, and I noticed that smoking weed soothes my allergic reactions, but damages my social skills.
>>13066915this, also evolution is not perfect, just good enough
>>13067202Kys unironicallyVegan diet is the only one to help.
>>13069219>Bro meat is so good omg just eat meat it's full of vitamins it's going to heal you What a clown world we live in
>>13067202or don't do this, unironically
>>13067227or don't do this, unironically
>>13069219>carnivore dietnot science or math
>>13070344>not eating gluten-free paleo vegan keto carnivore dietYou lose weight real quick on it.
>>13067019What's your sed rate?
I have Lyme Disease which causes severe inflammation. I’ve found a ketogenic diet helps reduce this inflammation and improve my symptoms. It might be worth a try considering you’re not sure what the cause is. It could very well be something bacterial. Regardless, an anti-inflammatory diet is sure to help.
>>13067169Don't fast. It'll kill you. The only reason why people feel good while fasting is because they don't eat shit anymore and the body eats itself (pure nutrition no toxins). Your body isn't retarded. Even cancer is a survival mechanism.
>be mental and physical wreck>have inflammation whenever I get my blood tested>inflammation is probably bad?>doctors don't care or tell me not to worry aboot it
>>13070017>sounds like placebo if there isn't a pathological explanation.really doens't matter thenif we believe it'll work and thats what make s it work then propagate that belief
Ok. Fasting now.The gut was certainly fucked before all this. We can now discuss wtf are they putting into normalfood that kills gut bioma. I suspect milk the most, but also meat, since they don't want us to eat meat anymore, won't be surprised if they are poisoning it.I was on probiotics for some time and that didn't help though.
>>13066926not everyone have shitty genesdon't have kids
>>13074106My genes are not to blame here. I developed this shit overnight. They are shit genes though.
>>13066879Getting an auto-immune illness is an automatic medical industry redpill>yeah, ur fucked and we have no idea why lol>here take these old chemotherapy drugs that will fuck you with side effects>you don't feel good? Don't care your labs are a bit better and that's all that matters>you have a chronic low grade fever now? Not my field lmao>actually your labs aren't good enough so we're gonna put you on this even worse drug :^)At that point I just left. In a few generations people will look back at this shit and be appalled.
>>13074149>My genes are not to blame here. I developed this shit overnight.you think people with AI get it the moment they step out of the womb? yours is probably late onset. actually most people get it late
>>13076793This. Doctors are not using their brains anymore. They are stuck in a frame of dogma and bad practices and don't give a shit. They are unscientific. Big pharma dictates what to sell and shamelessly buys doctors.They are still putting people on respirators despite having a gamut of less invasive ventilation mechanisms that have been (((banned))) because aerosolization bullshit. How many people have they killed with these protocols? And then they dance in TikTok.
>>13076824>Idk what is going on in your body so it must be youUltimately dying is late onset.No, faggot, people don't get sick overnight unless some extern agent comes into play.Blaming the victim is the easy way out.
>>13067031Causes aren't known, but the mechanism is usually pretty well known. It's been a very long time since I studied this, but I recall in arthritis the immune system forms aggregates around class IgM antibodies, and these aggregates cause a biochemical pathway leading to inflammation.So while there isn't a consensus on how autoimmunities (or allergies) develop, they are treatable with medicine that targets the mechanism causing the symptoms of it>>13067126It's been suggested that intermittent fasting indeed has a few health benefits, but I seriously doubt that's the main thing that determines whether someone gets arthritis or not. There's (epi)genetic factors, diet, exposure to the environment, microbiota, etc.We're likely still a few years off from being able to make accurate prediction models for these diseases based on all the contributing factors.
>>13076793>>13078995İf you guys were familiar with the underlying mechanisms, you would understand.>>13070242You get it.>I also heard that eating some gelatin products (some calf-foot-jelly, for example) is reconstruction those joints.Hyaluronic acid, but it is dubious at best.>I also read that thc cures all auto-immune disordersUnfortunately no, man. Or it would've been used already>>13079073Only voice of sanity in here
>>13078999your issue is probably mostly genetic, stop coping. it's possible that an extreme change in your lifestyle triggered this "extreme" event but that's unlikely.keep in mind americans consume a fuck ton of shit foods that cause oxidative stress and other issues, yet only 5% have autoimmune issues
>>13067126Why have I had asthma and allergies since I was born then? Was I getting freaky in the womb and eating big macs?
>tfw we have a cure for all immune diseases but it's too risky for any but the worst conditionsJust live another 20 years Anons and we'll probably have some better ways of killing off the dysfunctional immune system than the current AHSCT treatments.
>>13079241I'm not a burger though.I didn't change my lifestyle, in fact I'm now doing exercise an walking, and it doesn't seem to help.A better diet is not helping as well.I think my microbiota is fucked up. I have bowel problems since a few years ago. Never looked into it because they would want to perform a colonoscopy, and that is a red line for me. I've read there is a form of arthritis caused by IBD.I'm of the opinion that many "autoimmune" and inflamatory diseases have their origin in the bowel. And they are more prevalent in western countries because of pesticides or whatever poisons they are using.
>>13079377>Never looked into it because they would want to perform a colonoscopy, and that is a red line for me>I'm of the opinion that many "autoimmune" and inflamatory diseases have their origin in the bowel. > And they are more prevalent in western countries because of pesticides or whatever poisons they are using.Explain why AI is mostly found in womyn then? Stop the cope accept that your genes are fucked.
>>13079377could be. genetics is very likely so don't rule it out. if your country doesn't have free healthcare then your doctor could leverage this to milk you dry. read a lot about this subject, don't be overconfident, discuss things with your doctor (if you pay him then just do the diagnostic stuff), etc
Follow wim hoff or look into what he copies, pranayam. Autoimmune diseases are nothing.
>>13069429>Sugar does cause inflammation ?????
>>13076793No shit. I have been going through this with atopic eczema, IBS and chronic prostatitis.The other side of the same coin are these lunatics who think diet cures everything.