What did the elite of the scientific community mean by this?
>>12941288Scientists whored themselves out for money.That is what intellectuals and scientists do.
>>12941288PENIS -- MALEotherwise femaleHow fucking hard is this??!!!
>>129414982+2=3Welcome to a literally orwellian future
>>12941498You can build a dick. If there's a quick test which checks if you're xx or xy might be a good response to the author
>>12941498sperm -> maleeggs -> femaleneither -> neitherthat's literally all sex is. gametogenesis.
>>12941588>You can build a dick.skin rolled up and stitched together into a shaft isn't a dick. much like your cut out dick leaving a hole isn't a vagina.
>>12941288Post a picture of them on 4chanIf somebody can masturbate to it, it's a female.
>>12941288>Lonza>Lonza Group is a Swiss multinational chemicals and biotechnology company, headquartered in Basel, with major facilities in Europe, North America and South Asia. Lonza was established under that name in the late 19th-century in Switzerland. The company provides product development services to the pharmaceutical and biologic industries, including organic, fine and performance chemicals, custom manufacturing of biopharmaceuticals, chemical synthesis capabilities, detection systems and services for the bioscience sector.Now why would this company be pro-tranny?
>>12941617Then you have to specify a particular trait of dick that can be measured economically and one that plastic surgeons can't replicate.
>>12941627funny how trannies are the biggest consoomer brainlets around. they sign up in droves for subscriptions to overpriced big pharma snake oil. the very "capitalists" they screech about they give all their money too. lmao.
>>12941635There is no such thing as "men's sports" that exclude anybody based on sex.
>>12941635yup they can't. because organs have specific traits that rn we don't have the ability to produce. and organ isn't defined by the ability of of the plastic surgeons you waste your money on because of your sexual bpd.
>>12941627If you need more proof that capitalism is a failure, here it is.
>>12941659When the technology comes out, if it isn't already, you'll just be kicking the can down the road. I'm not sure what the technology is at but the question would be whether it can be a cheap and efficient test or even useful.More food for thought, we separate sports by age, sex and ability so it would be better if the test accounted for all 3.
>>12941690if the tech comes out that swaps gametogenesis then by definition that will be a real sex change. until that point you're just a man in a wig with a rotting hole forcing other people to respect you delusions with the threat of the state like christards once did.
>>12941690>>12941702and being a corporate pawn that shovels out whatever cash you have to big pharma and plastic surgeons while at it.
There's a reason why links to Nature are forbidden on /sci/.
>>12941288>it is difficult, if not impossible, to define a hard boundary between the colors yellow and green>therefore color doesn't exist
>>12941752I don't see how color is relevant to a discussion about gender. These are completely different topic, dumbass poltard.
It's not difficult at all to define the boundary between hylic and psychic.
>>12941608sounds needlessly restrictive and sexist.
>>12941783>>12941811Proving a negative is boring.
>>12941821Do y'all just get tired? That's not at all a scientific response
>>12941821sex is defined in contrast to asexual reproduction. this is just how shit evolved. it has nothing to do with your tranny delusions which you feel like killing yourself over. this model best fits reality. simple as that.
>>12941832Sex by copulation is a terrible consequentualist causation narrative. It has many holes. Not bad but there are situations where copulation shouldn't define the genetic aspects.
>>12941841>shouldn'tand you will be filtered from the gene pool>as all things should be
>>12941841> It has many holes. not ones you ever touch. but jokes aside your dismissal is just your worthless tranny delusion opinion. >Not bad but there are situations where copulation shouldn't define the genetic aspects.you got that in reverse.
>>12941880I mean donkeys can copulate w horses. It's addressed in philosophy of biology/genetics books. It works okay enough but it can't be advanced upon and doesn't give a good picture.
>>12941886they produce sterile offspring. just proves the gametes def.
>>12941885We can have a better causation narrative and solve these issues.Using copulation would assert a horse is a donkey. In gender it can be worse and you may band-aid contemporary issues and make worse ones, iyo, beyond your imagination. Consequentualism is a bad definition. It's like saying 1+1 is justified by the number 2 existing. You can't do anything with it.Picrel about having genetic drift being a causation narrative has issues. Genetic drift necessitates copulation.
>>12941288There's no hard boundary between the starting and finish line either.
>>12941891Then it's not the gametes but the offspring which defines whether they're a horse, of a certain gender, whatever else bs you want to derive from that.
It's easy to differentiate the two sexes.Male chicks go into the meat grinder.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_u0jxi_v-w
>>12941918>Using copulation would assert a horse is a donkey.no that is not how species is defined. viable offspring is the cut-off.> Consequentualism is a bad definition. It's like saying 1+1 is justified by the number 2 existing. You can't do anything with it.except that it is the foundation for arithmetic. peano's axioms. >Picrel about having genetic drift being a causation narrative has issues. Genetic drift necessitates copulation.is just a bunch of tranny sophistry.>>12941923>Then it's not the gametes but the offspring which defines whether they're a horse, of a certain gender, whatever else bs you want to derive from that.no it is gametes that defines sex.
>>12941937>viable offspring is the cut-off.No it's not. Species is not well-defined.
>>12941939>No it's not. Species is not well-defined.In biology, a species is the basic unit of classification and a taxonomic rank of an organism, as well as a unit of biodiversity. A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which any two individuals of the appropriate sexes or mating types can produce fertile offspring, typically by sexual reproduction.
>>12941937Peano's axioms is by 0 and the S function existing and you use that to create 2. You don't start with 2 then create the peano axioms.What if the person can't reproduce due to lack of gametes and need to either repopulate them with whichever sex cells either due to some treatment or genetic reasons. How would you know what to populate them with? Whichever they wanted? Do you not see how this could be worse down the road?
>>12941948People don't define species by copulation. There are many ways they do (for instance we could mate w older hominids but we are separate species) but that's not a good definition of gender, species, genetic fit etc.
>>12941950>Peano's axioms is by 0 and the S function existing and you use that to create 2. You don't start with 2 then create the peano axioms.yes it's a mapping function. yawn.>What if the person can't reproduce due to lack of gametes and need to either repopulate them with whichever sex cells either due to some treatment or genetic reasons. How would you know what to populate them with? Whichever they wanted? Do you not see how this could be worse down the road?if they don't have gametes they are not sexual by definition.
>>12941958>but that's not a good definitionok opine all you want but it works. it's the best fitting model and the fact you seethe about it doesn't invalidate it.
>>12941962So you're arguing sex isn't a fundamental trait to a person? I don't think there are huge medical differences which should be accounted for in some treatments but I imagine there are.
>>12941969>So you're arguing sex isn't a fundamental trait to a person?where do you get that from?
>>12941288They mean that trying to find a nuanced way to define male and female as it pertains to fair competition in sports is difficult. Testosterone has been popular, but there's enough overlap between men and women that there isn't a perfect cut-off. Genitalia becomes tricky with intersex people. There's no one-size-fits-all rule for sports competitionBasically, it means we're going to have to see if you've got balls or ovaries and if you've got neither you can't play sports.
>>12941966It's best in fields where it doesn't matter. Being able to mate is a terrible framework and may be counterproductive in medicine. Considering you've been saying I'm with a mental illness I imagine you must care about medicine. What if they lose their sex cells in transition and they need a procedure to repopulate it. How do you choose?
>>12941971You said a person can not be sexual making having a sex not a trait shared by all humans. Thus not fundamental.
>>12941927>Male chicksanon, chicks are all female.
>>12941975>Being able to mate is a terrible frameworkno it isn't. trannies like you wouldn't exist without it. which would've been fortunate desu. >What if they lose their sex cells in transition and they need a procedure to repopulate it. How do you choose?not my problem. honestly i wish all trannies would just kick the chair this instant. in minecraft ofc. >>12941981they are not sexual as in they cannot sexually reproduce.
>>12941948That definition is an a posteriori attempt of making sense of preexisting species divisions, with a simple rule. But most species were identified more or less arbitrarily based on phenotypic differences and geographic borders.
>>12941981>Thus not fundamental.it's fundamental to all organisms with gametes.
>>12941995so taxonomy needs an update to be definitionally rigorous. your point is meaningless.
>>12941974>fair competitionIt's called men's sports, which anybody can participate. They don't check your penis. The whole point of having women's sports is to carve an unfair competitive space for a special protected class of sub-population. Nobody cares about women's sport except those who make money from it in mysterious ways. It might as well be a tranny infested shitshow, who cares.
>>12941993>>12941999You do understand why you come off as an unscientific nut job right? It's why your positions won't take hold. They don't hold up to scrutiny or have any use
>>12942026>has no argument>calls others unscientific nut jobsdialte
>>12942032I didn't know being scientific was a huge part of your identity. I gave you some scrutiny so you may develop your personality further
>>12942026>They don't hold up to scrutinyall your tranny gibbering has been thoroughly debunked yet you still cling to your delusions. this is why you're mentally ill..
>>12942040>>12942032I think y'all are closet trannies looking for any justification you find. If you use gametes you will produce trannies. I advise against using gametes.
>>12942051I'm trying to help you? It's not all about hot takes. Gametes doesn't work, what does?
>features and opinion Not real science.Trannies and gender dysphoria will be engineered out of the gene pool in the next decade or so and there is nothing anyone can do to stop it.
>>12942059you still have not provided any debunk to using gametes as the feature for distinguishing these classes. asexual organisms reproduce asexually. sexual organisms use gametes to do recombination to reproduce. it's that simple.
>>12942065You're defining a sex by gametes. People can be of a certain gender but for whichever reasons not have gametes. Archeologists don't have access to gametes but can still tell gender.That's a big hole but broadening the conversation to other topics makes gametes a useless variable.
>>12942077Gender does not exist.
>>12942077gender is a delusion. just because something is in your doesn't make it real. just because people around the world believed in it and still believe in it doesn't make it real either. if that wasn't the case gods would be real. now that's not to say that peoples beliefs don't influence behavior. but beliefs doesn't a real make.
>>12942085>>12942090God yall sound like hyenas. I'm a 30yo boomer. Gender means sex to me and the distinction seems retarded but maybe y'all know better.My point was unanswered about gametes
penises are just big clitsclits are just small penisespussy lips are just scrotums without the ballsvaginas are just extra buttholes
>>12941288Genitals, Natural Development Course, Pheromones. An interesting way to trump the consensus is to find something one sex can do but the other can't in absolution. Something so clear scientists that argued against it would have to be willfully ignorant to contradict. What can a man do that a woman can't or vice versa? Pregnancy and Ejaculation probably won't pass because trannies can just delude themselves using some half-assed means. A women can sacrifice for a child, but can a tranny? A man can disregard equality for the greater good, but can a women?
>>12942095There is literally nothing wrong with using gametes as the dilineator for sex.Males produce the small sperms gametes. Females produce the large ovum gametes, and in mammals gestational the offspring.This is readily observable in all animals that reproduce sexually. There is no problem with this other than this physically and biologically reductionist explanation hurts some people's feelings. But physical reductionism is one of the pillars of empirical science, along with falsifiability and reproducibility.Using the gamete definition is the only one that satisfies the three principles. What this means is that people who don't produce gametes are literally not men or women. Which is completely fine.
>>12942127So after menopause women aren't women? If a man gets rid of his sperm production he can be a nothing? Can nothings be in women's sports?
>>12942095it's this easy. only trannies twist themselves into a pretzels about it since the best models for reality doesn't conform to their preconceptions.
>>12942139they are dead ends reproductively speaking.
>>12942139Did they produce sperms or egg gametes during their life cycle? Then they are men or women, respectively.Why is this contentious?
>>12942142So can dead-ends play in women's sports? Do they not receive medical treatment then?
>>12942153women's sports are for women. dead ends can receive medical treatment for the specifics of their biology.
>>12942139>>12942146You can still get pregnant after menopause. There are some reported cases apparently. Also, apparently its reversible>https://www.health.com/menopause/can-you-get-pregnant-after-menopause.>https://www.healthline.com/health/menopause/menopause-reversal#melatonin
>>12942167when they can reproduce with their own eggs they are a she, otherwise they are not.
>>12942167Yes because you can still have some egg cells. Menopause is when your body is almost out of them.>>12942161Men's sports aren't for men>>12942152This is nonsense. People can be born not having any ability to produce sex cells and still be of a certain sex.I'm just going to say your chromosomes are probably a better place to start than gametes.
>>12942139There is nothing wrong with restricting membership into women's sports, because that's the whole point of women's sports.
How do you define a hard boundary between a human and an ape?
>>12942199>This is nonsense. People can be born not having any ability to produce sex cells and still be of a certain sex.wrong. that is definitionally invalid.>I'm just going to say your chromosomes are probably a better place to start than gametes.nope because you can have a y but no sry. also doesn't generalize to other species. thjis is why this is the best reproductive model here: >>12942142generalizes well is 100% accurate and pick whatever classification metric toy want it maxes out for all classes and sticks to the point.
>>12942222*you not toy i haven't slept in hours working on shit. now just shitposting with facts and logic till i pass out.
>>12942222You can start with chromosomes but gametes aren't going to help. People in pr are going to be male but by your definition can't do anything. If we find a cure for pr we can't cure it by your definition or it would produce trannies. I know kids can listen to the same song 500 times in a row at age 8 but I'm tired of repeating. It won't work
>>12942233pr? pa says they have no winky dink. so they cannot reproduce with sperm despite producing it unless there is some form of extraction and insemination procedure. so your point is moot. so it does work and a few minor outliers do not invalidate a model this is stil 99.9999999999999% accurate. and we're not looking for rare hits. just what fits reality the best in terms of reproduction. you know the thing from and for which sex evolved in the first place.
Is there a hard categorical difference between alive and dead?
>>12941766>le john oliver face
>>12942261You should look up the word moot and having no gonads means they don't produce testes.In your framework that works etc percent, you have to create a new no-gender which can't be used in medicine. I assume they must have a different bathroom etc. Anyways it creates more questions and solves none.
>>12941683Yep, I think this is based.
>>12942265The ability to communicate in any capacity? Surely you can communicate with taste if all other senses fail you.
>>12941766>le Democrat face
>>12942280that is partner condition. not pa.
>>12942283That's too consequentualist. You need to derive living from material axioms.
>>12942283Is there a hard categorical line between communication and none communication? is the sun communicating? are rocks alive? (to cut to the chase if gender is a spook, so is any human rights, law, etc and even the practical difference of one grug bashing in another grug's skull because they can never be killed. Because life or death is a social construct) ad absurdum
>>12942290It literally says testicular agenesis. It even particularly says no gonads thus no testes
>>12942300i may be sleep deprived but you're illiterate
Is there a hard boundary between winning and losing?
>>12942295No offense but you're talking like a moron. Wtf is a hard categorical line? You mean a material distinction between alive and dead? Is that a real question?Is there a material distinction between gender? No. Is there a hard categorical distinction. I'm sure people would argue so. You're not communicating anything
>>12942315you win some. you lose some.
>>12942318>Is there a material distinction between gender? No.Anon they will never send you to the women's prison.
>>12942309Isn't that something which can either be its inverse or which goes with it? I'm not sure what you're communicating. Males can be born without gonads and will still be males. That's where we left off.
>>12942330I thought y'all said sex wasn't gender.
>>12942318The whole gender or sex argument is trying to establish hard categories. To establish hard categories you need hard meaning inflexible principles to create an enforcable standard. This can be referred to as a line. Line meaning border.Hard (meaning inflexible) categorical (the general subject of building different discrete sets) and line meaning the capacity to differentiate inflexibly between data sets. If there is no hard categorical distinctions or frame works these universalize to some absurd consequences.
>>12942337gender is just another word for sex.
>>12942331if no gonads then not male. need gonads for gametes. need gamete delivery system to reproduce. i can't believe a dt is this hard to follow. it's really easy. or it should be. anyway this is the model i will stick with for matters of sex. practically perfect accuracy and generalizable to all organisms.
>>12942345I get talked down to for not using orthodox terms in fields I'm learning rn. Anyways that means nothing. You need a truth framework which can derive truth preservations from your categories.
>>12942293What about variation in response to different stimuli?
>>12942345the separation boundary of the space of organisms for these features separates classes with perfect accuracy. there is nothing absurd about it. just goes against your flimsy preconceptions about how you want the world to be. you're failing the is ought problem hard.
>>12942347That's what I use it as but I thought y'all were debating the differences between them.>>12942349It's one which can produce trannies or at least an underclass of dead-ends. It can't promote medicine, no archeologists can use it. It's only applicable in a political sense and it won't even meet your political goals.
>>12942383i know you're a tranny and you threw in your towel to ever have kids but many people want kids. that is the utility in this.
>>12942347Yes but activists try to make a distinction between external perception of sex and inherent sex. How do you draw a hard line between the perception and the actual thing?
>>12942374No you can still miss alive people. You need to have a material variable we can agree on and derive aliveness from it. It would help with aging medicines etc maybe even bringing a body or body organ back to life. With your framework if a heart stops beating it's useless but we can revive people.
Trannies are not sick. They are just perverted men.
>>12942383>It can't promote medicineyour trannyshit sure as shit doesn't. unless you call inflating medical snake oil salesmen pockets with dough promoting medicine.
>>12942390You can have kids without that distinction. In fact that may make people decide to not have kids to get rid of the hierarchy. It's just a political distinction. It's not a good scientific one.
>>12942397By using your framework you allow a tranny underclass. I don't care about what y'all decide is in fashion generation to generation. I am interested in medicine and science in general. If you have a way to automate medical innovation I'd be interested but you don't.
>>12942401>You can have kids without that distinction.no you can't. sperm and egg make babby. >It's just a political distinction. It's not a good scientific one.oh the pottery. lmao you fail the most basic bio. sad.
>>12942377The accuracy doesn't matter and the outcomes don't innately matter. Any categorization itself will fall underneath the ought. Any distinction between any set of entities will be arbitrary. It only matters instrumentally.
>>12942405>you allow a tranny underclass.whoopity shit. they are dead ends.> I am interested in medicine and science in general.perverting well fitted models isn't that. >If you have a way to automate medical innovation I'd be interested but you don't.funny you say that.
>>12942409>It only matters instrumentally.yes like reproduction. you screeching about sperm and eggs not being necessary for babbys doesn't change that it do/ it's like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone. no non mental ill unlike you will go with your gibbering. .
>>12942393You can still be alive with a functioning brain and non-functioning heart but you can't be alive with a functioning heart and a non-functioning brain. So is the brain function the categorical limit, or could you go deeper and say the ability to reanimate the brain?
>>12942429I don't think you understand what I am saying. Either there is no valid structures using the post modern tools, or all societally constructed tools are valid even if they lack absolute categorization potential. You are missing the point that you can expose human rights, equality, and equity as arbitrary as the gender they 'deconstruct'. Meaning all you have to do to get them to admit to the disingenuous politics is by ripping apart the whole net. Whatever you get at the end of that process is more useful than trying to set some firm line. (instrumentality can be dissolved too)
>>12942406Saying gender is based on gametes doesn't make a baby.There's no field which can use gametes as a fundamental distinction between genders
>>12942418Go to bed you sound foolish.>>12942446It has to be some trait that the brain shares which you can grow to reanimate it.
>>12942452>Either there is no valid structures using the post modern tools, or all societally constructed tools are valid even if they lack absolute categorization potential.the validity of a model is just about its fitting to a problem. it goes beyond utility and is just about how well it describes some phenomena. the better fit, the more valid. simple as that. this is fit af. something trannies ain't darwinianly speaking. i really am not a fan of pomo tactics. they are just rhetorical sophistry to impede some understanding.
>>12942454>Saying gender is based on gametes doesn't make a baby.gender dne outside of delusion. >There's no field which can use gametes as a fundamental distinction between gendersyou're right. gender is useless outside of behavioral psychology of delusion.
>>12942464It's a collection of microorganisms forming a complex continuous system. But if that system stops the microorganisms comprising it begin to die, and once enough of them die the system cannot be reignited. So perhaps 2 or more functional brain-cells that communicate might work?
>>12942464>Go to bed you sound foolish.oh the pottery is strong with you.
>>12942502Probably not a brain cell. It would more be a degree of energy of some sort.
>>12942489if you aren't willing to match them tactically you, they will never give you that same consideration. They won't meet you half way. There is no way to have a broad agreement of what the problem is or if it even exists. Short term time preference and denial of reality in the modern system will likely outlast almost anyone. Because they aren't operating from moral frame works but rather from some whacky consequentialism, they will be allowed to act as predators. Irregadless of reality. Scorched earth policy is a better start than being beaten over the head with some straw man variant of your own system that they don't engage with.
>>12942524you have a point. is this what you were trying to convince me of the entire time? if so i apologize for the insults. you're alright but you could've been more direct from the start.
>>12942541If you are too obvious with your allegiances, it kinda defeats the point. No worries m8 stay safe out there, don't get flagged for something stupid.
>>12942578ah don't worry i know how to blend in. i just don't do it here. this is the only place i can be in my skin rn. you stay safe out there too, fren.
>>12941288That it is difficult, if not impossible to find a hard boundary between the sexesI'm not sure what is supposed to be surprising or controversial about this
>>12941635>specify a particular trait of dick that can be measured economicallyWhat> one that plastic surgeons can't replicateHow about the testicles? Show me an implant for functional testicles that will survive in a female host.
>>12941627DELETE THIS RIGHT NOW
>>12941288I think a massive conspiracy is being planned and executed behind the curtains. This is orchestrated by people who u would least likely suspect to be .And those are ,wait for it, FEMOIDS!!Yup,it's not the Jews; it's all the women who wish to permanently replace men from existence or at least enslave them for life without any access to freedom.They wish to genetically engineer a Powerful senrient with female characteristics that would not have to depend on men and render us useless and in the end murder us.Wake up men b4 it's too late.
>>12941288Quasi-spiritualism has been constant companion of science and an excellent vehicle for career growth.It is certainly easier to say bullshit than do something and that should make it obvious why it is the preferred career path.You might not remember gaia-ism, as its now somewhat different, but it was pretty big deal and a lot of kids were being told straight in the face that "mother earth has a consciousness and we'll find it in 10 years tops".Note these things and how they come and go.
>>12941288What besides Boobies vagoo penoor and my big balls
>>12941550It's 2+2=5Get your "facts" straight bigot.
>>12941288I'll give you a hard boundary, by FAT THROBBING COCK FULL OF CUM FULL OF CUM
>>12941608what if they produce both? then they'd be both male and female, right?leading to another category of "sex"
>>12944389it's not possible to produce both.
>>12941288I hate this clown world
>>12941288I'd say one menstruating during a marathon is pretty sufficient
>>12941288Doctors: "I have had my livelihood threatened by my financiers and regulators. I will not be allowed to practice medicine at all if I do not submit."Regulators: "TV says trannyism good, bosses say make happen." (insert brainless wojack here)Regulators bosses ('politicians'): "I have been threatened by my financier/blackmailers."Financiers/Blackmailers: "I exist to proliferate evil. The horror and agony I inflict on others brings me immense pleasure."
>>12942233This is retarded hair-splitting. You wouldn't contest to Humans being defined as bein two-handed and two-legged because of rare genetic mutations producing three legs/arms in some humans.
>>12945127If the genetic mutations were common or the majority of people were like that you would.
>>12941498Exactly. Penis = male Vagina = femaleIt's like society has reverted back to kindergarten.
>>12945146If my grandma had balls she'd be my grandpa.
>>12941821sounds accurate and rooted in reality. not sure what youre going on about with these meaningless post modern buzzwords
>>12941974>GenitaliaThey all have a dominant sistem and an underdeveloped and un-useful one. They can Also be classified.
This is all thanks to John Money. How come people lambast the "vacines cause autism" study but still refer to his retarded gender studies?
>>12941683Now this is pretty based
>>12941974>if you've got neither you can't play sports.No, you'd play in the men's category.
Why is it so hard? Make it simple. Any body modifications of any kind and you are not allowed to join a sport on professional level.
>>12944419it absolutely is. look at intersex individualslow IQ retard's entire argument fell apart
We are all gay by defintion
>>12947324Intersex people do not produce both sperm and eggs you fucking idiot.
>>12947361a subset do produce viable forms of both gametes
>>12947230But what about amateur sports? What constitutes a body modification?
>>12947368Does not exist. There are intersex people born with both ovarian and testicular tissue, but they do not produce both sperm and eggs.
>>12941288>the evidence linking testosterone to unfair sport advantage is unclearIs iT r e A l L y?
>>12947371yes they do. search for true simultaneous hermaphrodites." the quantification of sexual selection is less clear-cut in simultaneous hermaphrodites, because each individual is both male and female at the same time."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5511009/can't believe i'm sharing a board with low IQ retards fuelled by visceral emotions directed towards trannies lmao
>>12947393True simultaneous hermaphrodites have both testicular and ovarian tissue but they do not produce both sperm and eggs. You have no idea what you're talking about. I'm smarter than you and probably everyone you know.
>>12941498It's not that simple, there are borderline cases as the penis and clitoris are essentially the same thing with various hormones acting upon to make it larger or smaller. Ovaries and balls are also essentially the same thing, labia and scrotum. Etc. The whole sex organs come from a common template that is differentiated, often badly like all things nature does, it's half assed.
>>12947403https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/4532534/get fucked lmao
>>12947417Those are in species of fish and amphibians you fucking idiot. All of the cases of true hermaphroditismin humans, they only produce one gamete. This is the case for all mammals with hermaphroditism. True hermaphrodites in humans do not produce both sperm and eggs.You have no idea what you're talking about. You aren't even capable of reading the papers you link to try to prove your point.
>>12941588Where in the author's argument did he say the natural definition of male/female included artificial organ synthesis? It would have to be restricted to genetics at birth and the anatomy that it codes for to make any sense
>>12947430b-but le twannies evil!!1!1here's an amphibian for youhttps://www.deepdyve.com/lp/wiley/ovulation-in-a-cytogenetically-proved-phenotypically-male-fertile-IeoZ7pc0CX
>>12947434They're checking to see in sports how to tell. Saying "they know by knowing what they had at age 1" isn't informative. Do you have a quick gene test that can offer this?
>>12947421that's called a genetic freak, anon
>>12947446There is no suggestion of functioning ovum here. There is suggestion that hermaphroditic tissue attempted to ovulate inside his testicle. This is not the same as production of both gametes.You have no idea what you're even reading.
>>12947462"histology of his removed ovary suggested that ovulation had, at some time, occurred"lmao, my nigga is pretending to be illiterate now. sit down. you lost
>>12947475You have no idea what you're reading.The point of that article was that a male hermaphrodite, who produced viable sperm, had hermaphroditic tissue his whole life without knowing, and then for some reason the tissue attempted ovulation several decades into his life (despite the fact that he has no eggs) which caused him pain and he needed to go to the emergency room.There is no suggestion that he had both sperm and eggs. We would all know about this and he would be literally be one of the most famous subjects in biology for being the first and only known human to ever produce both gametes.He did NOT produce ovum gametes. Hermaphroditic tissue attempting ovulation or spermatogenesis happens in hermaphrodites, this is known, but they do not produce both gametes.You have no idea what you're talking about. You do not even study biology or any STEM field.You lost.
>>12947421>genetic anomalies should define sex
>>12947497>assblasted so hard that he's pretending to misread the paper and grasping at strawsit literally says that ova were found and there was an ovulation event.
>>12947511Where does it say functioning ova were found?
>>12947526you are retarded, it's clearly stated that "ovulation had, at some time, occurred"occurred, not attempted you absolute drooling low IQ retard. let's look up the definition of ovulation now shall we?"Ovulation is the release of a mature egg from one of the ovaries.."i understand that /sci/ is your only contact with science, but let's not get too cocky ok?
>>12947543There is no evidence that he had functioning ovum. It literally says that >"Histology of the removed 'testis' subsequently showed normal ovarian stroma with several Graafian follicles and primordial follicles containing immature ova" This happens already in hermaphrodites. This is not the same as production of both gametes. Ovulation of immature gametes can and does happen. He did not produce both ovum.
>>12947526https://twin.sci-hub.se/6029/e974492c024305a4281bb6245580dadb/shannon1973.pdfhere's another instance that's much more elaborate. lmao, i'm an undergrad schooling you on this buddy. stay humble
>>12947559both gametes*Oocyte ovulation is still ovulation.
>>12947559>>12947561"Microscopic examination of the operative specimen showed a normal fallopian tube. The ovary contained a number of follicular cysts and one follicle was found containing a de- veloping ovum (figure 4). Small numbers of primordial ova were also present."
>>12947561This subject also did not have functioning ovum.>i'm an undergradThat makes sense. Stay in school.
>>12947578yes he did."Regressing follicular structures were present, suggesting that previous ovulation had occurred." "It has been stated that simultaneous func-tion of both ova9 and testis probably never occurs in any vertebrate animal (Willis, 1962). In the present case, there is strong evidence that simultaneous function did indeed occur."stay assblasted.
>>12947586Ironically you're the grasping at straws here. This subject did not have functioning ovum. The tissue underwent Oocyte ovulation. This happens in hermaphrodites. This was literally from the 70's. We know that the subject was not producing functioning forms of both gametes. Try not to drop out.
>>12947599he had a developing ovum that was literally shown under the microscope lmaojesus, are you going to pretend to be blind now?
>>12947608Yes, just like some hermaphrodites with functioning ovum undergo spermatogenesis but do not produce viable sperm.That is how true hermaphroditism works in humans. You would not be able to take those eggs and use them for reproduction. They aren't eggs. There is no human that has ever been found to produce sperm and eggs. You haven't stumbled upon some revolutionary discovery here.
>>12941766>baiting on /sci/ with le registered democrat face
>>12947616it was functional.you lost my dudestep downsit downtake it
>>12947616>>12947641the sperm was viable since he fathered childrenthe egg was never rested but it was morphologically normal and in the latest developmental stage prior to fertilization. that is to say everything we know about it was normal.
>>12947641not the guy you are talking too?what are you trying to prove? even if you are right, wouldnt this exception just prove the rule?there are anomalias out there, and that is why they are called anomalias.Humans have 2 legs and 2 arms. That statement is true regardless if some anomallies happen and a few babies are born without legs.
>>12947658I'm not the guy you are talking too.* random ? there. my bad
>>12947658>b-but muh rare!even if one were to posit hypothetical worlds where redheads were 0.05% of the population (in line with other estimates for intersex frequencies), it is doubtful that we would deny that the color red is a true point on the spectrum of hair colors if their frequency was 0.05%, uniformly or not. we would still have the option to select the color "red" on licenses, demographic information collection...etc. we would not insist that someone with red hair must select "black", "brown", or "blonde" simply because they are not the norm.the same thing applies for intersex people, they are indeed not the norm. they are indeed rare. and that doesn't actually matter with respect to the their sex being a true point on a spectrum of sexes - much as red hair is a true point on a spectrum of hair colors despite its rarity.
>>12941683saved and based
>>12947681what what point would you just consider an anomalie and move on? what what point would you put that option theree in the democraphic information collection?lets say if the green natural hair color happen in 0.000001% of the population, should the government still put that option there?should we collect information about how many penises baby boys have? well, there is this condition here https://www.healthline.com/health/diphalliadoes that justifies 2 penises as a demographic information collection by the government in documents, IDs, etc? just an example
>>12947711complete strawman and completely irrelevant. my post went over your head it seemsmy point was, just because something is rare doesn't mean that it shouldn't be granted a category or a "truth value" or a point on a spectrumby posting that you just proved my point, when babies are born with two penises the doctor's don't tell them "well.. you actually have one penis! two penises don't exist since they're so rare!"
>>12947656There is no way the egg would be viable.
>>12941288>88/pol/ is always right
>>12947412>there are borderline casesIf not penis then female.Why is this hard?Freaky one in million Borderline cases:Testicles -- maleotherwise female
>>12942063>Trannies and gender dysphoria will be engineered out of the gene pool in the next decade or soI wish I had your optimism.
>>12947430>All of the cases of true hermaphroditismin humans, they only produce one gamete. This is the case for all mammals with hermaphroditism.>for all mammals>>12947446>here's an amphibian for youwhat did he mean by this?
what do trannies even have to do with hermaphrodites and other hideous freaks of nature?
>>12941293Even AC Slater has to bend the knee to globohomo.
>a 1/1000000 outlier appears every so often therefore biological sex is mysterious and ill-definedalso>hey we got our linear model to an R^2 of 0.3, it looks like a vague cloud of points with a random line drawn through it>hot damn, publish that shit
>>12941498Y Chromosome = MaleNo Y = Female
>>12942063Deaf people want to right to have their non-deaf children made deaf through elective surgery. Trannies and those with other mental illnesses will insist that medical science be used to create more of them not less, claiming it is genocide to destroy their community. The public will eat it up and demand it too.
>>12948377It's not just border cases. If it's an issue for identification then for things like medicine etc the border cases stop being border and become a real problem.
>>12950336Penis is a inflammatory word of discrimination. It is shecock. For the same reasons, vagina is also a shecock.
If China dominates the world in the coming decades, will we get rid of SJW and political correctness? Will technology and science advance faster if there is less morality in Science (as it was between 1900-1960 in Europe / America)?
>>12950869we will advance technically but objectively beautiful art will die as a sacrifice
>>12947745No he's saying that it's indicative of a mutant deformity. The two of you are splitting hairs over dozens of posts about hermaphrodites, but the point is there are only males and females. Those that fall between are regrettably deformed, not a separate sex.
>>12950869Societies in death spirals rare are able to unwind themselves and get back to normal. Western society has to collapse for all of the political correctness nonsense to end.
>>12945146The majority of people have either a penis or a vagina. Thanks for playing, stop posting
>>12951391>regrettably deformedby the definition of sex that is commonly accepted in the scientific community (gametic), unfortunately they'd have to be another sex. any other outcome is not logically consistent.
>>12950869When westerners dominated the world and stoked conflict in developing nations to maintain superiority in the 19th and 20th centuries did it stop over time? No. Those countries are still all fucking shit. The same is true in this situation. If anything China will do its best to worsen the instability in western nations. That said even if they had a hands-off approach I believe western society's culture has become so utterly adulterated that it cannot recover, or will not in our lifetimes. There is no unity whatsoever and the only result will be sectarian ethnic violence followed by balkanization of western states.
>>12951413Sorry anon, they are either a male or a female, having a genetic deformity doesn't entitle them to a classification of a new type of human just as being born with an extra limb doesn't confer upon them an assignment of subspecies
>>12951418>Sorry anon, they are either a male or a femalelol, quite the visceral response>just as being born with an extra limb doesn't confer upon them an assignment of subspeciesright no, not under the definition that is widely accepted of what a subspecies would entail
>>12951429Yeah I don't care about your deformity, you are either a male or a female. Pick one sweetie and stick with it, your life is rough enough as it is.
How does the existence of hermaphrodites validate transgenderism? All they would entail is that there are a some humans that are both male and female, and only if they actually produce both gametes. And that's also assuming that the hermaphrodite does indeed undergo oogenesis and spermatogenesis.This in no way implies that transgender people are valid.
>>12951400Try this, if you have covid or cancer you can identify people by a virus or mutation outbreak. You can even say a particular virus distinguishes it as covid etc (which isn't what you're doing in saying gametes in general). This may help identification (except in where the virus may be introduced as a vaccine or may be inactive by some circumstance - similar to gamete argument) but these border cases (even if we measure amount to distinguish vaccines and, maybe, inactive strains) don't tell us how to cure it or even whether there's immunity built up.To analogize back to gender, we can identify by body organ, gametes etc and have just some border cases but ramping up to fixing gender imbalances etc these border cases become the majority or whole of the cases (they particularly become 100% in people who are in the border cases). It becomes a case of if you're "normal" then you match the set. This is obviously uninformative of what sex is. For example in menopause the solution to helping with the symptoms or even enacting a cure would amount to showing more ovum cells in them which is barbaric and doesn't help with menopause.Obviously you agree that having certain estrogen levels doesn't make you a male or female and that can only help with menopause symptoms but not cure it. It's a similarly barbaric approach but one we can use which helps menopause symptoms. Also we must agree that genitalia is a horrible indicator for scientific reasons of sex and given advances in plastic surgery.Anyways any border cases on a shallow level has consequences more fundamentally in any subject. This can probably be quantified.
>>12951459Even more proposing a third gender would be superfluous given a hermaphrodite is undergoing menopause and needs a cure for it.
>>12951480Given the gamete definition there are 4 possibilities:Produces functioning sperm and does not produce functioning eggs -> male, not femaleProduce functioning eggs and not functioning sperm -> Female, not male.Produces both functioning sperm and eggs (I still reject that this exists, there are two "papers" from 1970's with like 10 citations each and that never actually tested if the egg were functioning) -> both male and femaleProduces neither functioning eggs nor functioning sperm -> neither male nor female.Where do gender dysphoria and transgender people fall here?
>>12951520Do all females get menopause?If they do, by the gamete definition, I can shove eggs in her to prevent it. This doesn't work in itself and it doesn't explain why ppl get menopause or even mechanically how to determine if someone has menopause and needs eggs.
>>12951552I don't understand what you're trying to sayA female who produced eggs in her life cycle and then went through menopause is still a female. Just like if a guy who produced sperm in his lifecycle and then lost his nuts is still a male.These do not contradict the gamete definition.
>>12951459>>12951480>>12951520>>12951552>>12951616all it means is that sex is non-binary.
>XY, functional penis and testicles>male>XX, functional vagina and ovaries>female>anything else>paralympicsit's that simple
>>12951701Yea you're right, it would be quaternary. Male, female, mafemale, and ale.
>>12951780it's a nominal variable, ternary, a bimodal distribution, but NOT a spectrum
>>12951765absolutely incorrect, my friend. first and foremost the most obvious of the issues, what about those without 46XY, 46XX that can still reproduce?low IQ didn't see that coming
>>12951850>what about those without 46XY, 46XX that can still reproduce?I already told you, ship them off to the paralymics
>>12942489This just results in newspeak NLP stuff that alters perception and thus action And behaviors
>>12951414Should I pick up Russian?
>>12951898da, pa ruski brotyea?
>>12941288>What did the elite of the scientific community mean by this?the medical industry wants that tranny-surgery money.
>>12942392If I take a straight pole and put it through a pool of water I'll perceive it as a crooked object, because of the refraction of light. So, has the pole got crooked or maybe my perception cannot be always trusted at face value?
>>12951222art has been dead for a long time, where the fuck have you been in the last 70 years anon?
>>12941288I fucking LOVE science!!
>>12948579It's their shield. Everybody knows that trannism is caused by autism, escapism, and sinking testo levels. No connection to hermas.
It's not about if there is a Y chromosome it's about if the chromosome has a functioning SRY gene.There was a woman who used CRISPR to put the SRY gene on a different chromosome in cows or something so that there would be more males born than females. It worked.
>>12941288>editorially independent supplement produced with the financial supportLiteral nothing.
>>12953842Nature published it in their daily press briefing that they send to millions of people everyday. They made the choice to acknowledge and spread it.
>>12948642Consider the following: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome
>>12941948Just check if it's got a penis or vagina. Anything in between is a hermaphrodite.
>>12941288chromosomes are sexist don't listen to them
>>12947421so if someone cuts my arm into pieces and saw it up as a tail, will I have a tail?
>>12941288>What did the elite of the scientific community mean by this?scientific method has been dumped long ago. basically, what they do now is focus on freak of nature 1/1000000 cases and say 'let's also call it normal therefore current definitions are inadequate' > it's like dumping Newton's laws because muh extreme cases where it fails
>>12941288There is only one sex, the human sex.
>>12947412Yes, ligers exist, but that doesnt mean tigers and lions suddenly arent real.
>>12955720But it does ruin a clear cut boundary which all this is about. Thanks for proving that point
maybe you should work on making the male gender nicer so people want to stay in itI know you'd rather spend 2 trillion on guard AIs than 10 million on making it not a shithole that everyone wants to leave but perhaps you could profit from examining just why the above is the case
>>12955789What are you talking about?
>>12954932>>12951701>>12951552>>12951480>>12951475>>12951459>>12951400>>12950767>>12948622>>12948590>>12947765>>12947681>>12947658>>12947630>>12947578Ok, how many of those people with EXTREMELY RARE disorders are in sports, anon?Or are you just using the extremes to justify trannies who take hormones (not at all the same) BEING INVOLVED.HOW ABOUT THISIF YOU'RE NATTY, YOU COMPETE, YOU TAKE ANYTHING? FUCK OFF.
>>12955799Sports are supposed to be about the capabilities of natural individuals for a reason. Otherwise, make all sport unisex and lose 95% of the females in sports.Your call, trannies.
>>12955797we really doing this
>>12955789>retarded tranny faggot wants everyone else to spend money on themFuck off faggot, kill yourself, worthless piece of shit.
>>12941288>Impossible to find a hard boundary between female and maleThey just need to make the person aroused to see if anything gets hard.
>>12955812The male sex will be optimized to be small and energy efficient.Females will be optimized to be amazons with large thick hips that are good for birthing.This is the future of our species.
>>12955817you're already committed to metaphorically spending the 2tn on guards though. i was just suggesting that you could turn the place you're trying to guard into less of a shithole and maybe spend less on forcing people to remain in it
Nature is that which we perceive through the senses. The task of natural philosophy is to express relations between things perceptively known, not to ask what is in the mind and what is in nature. The genitals, chromosomes, hormones, among other characteristics perceptively known show us a difference in humans which we call the sexes. Humans tend to have a penis or vagina―these terms identifying the animal and genitals are classifications for the sake of ritual convenience and have no concrete existence. All of these constructions are virtual, being no more and no less imaginary, convoluted, and real than gender or a transwoman.
>>12955836Language is not subjective.
>>12955853well yeah i meanlike, every single word has its own context and that context varies from person to person and hour to hourthat's why being a writer is such a fucking ordeal
>>12955862Wrong. Private language doesn't exist.If language were not objective, we could not use it to communicate with each other.When you and I reference and "apple", we reference the same external object with no subjectivity. Then the objective external object is associated with subjective individual memories and experiences.But the object, and the language that references it, are not subjective. They are objective.
>>12955867>we reference the same external object with no subjectivitythere's like eighty different breeds and a few stunt cultivars
>>12955875And those are objectively referenced with further categorization. If I say "granny smith apple" or "red delicious apple" then we are thinking of the same thing. When I say "apple", the apple that you and I think of may not be the same, but neither of us will think "ocean" or "elephant".Otherwise, no one would ever be able to talk to each other. The fact that we can talk to each other refutes subjective private language.
>>12955836>Nature is that which we perceive through the senses.Lol, this retard thinks that I can hold the Tower of Pisa between my fingers.
here's a little "red pill" for you: chromsomes are literally not real. no one has ever seen themup until 1953 every so called "scientist" said we had 48 of them then they changed their minds and now they say we have 46 and you can literally look this upfucking lol if you believe in this fraud. if chromosomes existed genetic engineering would be insanely easy, it would literally just be moving acids around with shit you can make in a garagewe'd all be IQ 250 geniuses and metal gear solid would be a fucking documentary instead of how they haven't figured out anything new in the past thirty yearsanyone who tells you that you can't change your gender because of some impossible to verify microscopic bullshit is a neil degrasse tyson science redditor and you can safely ignore anything they have to say about anything
>>12955917I can't even sneed after reading this post
>>12955917Chromosomes literally are real.I will just assume you are trolling to make the pro-trans position look bad
>>12941498but what if you get payed a lot of money for claiming otherwise?
>>12955853The virtual is not subjective. A reflection in the mirror is really there even if its not being viewed, but it is avaliable for viewing and thus affects the actual.>>12955867Indeed. The symbolic order is completely autonomous: it is not a superstructure determined by biology or genetics. Symbolic order is an essential feature in the transition from nature to culture.>>12955903We perceive a size-distance paradox.
>>12941498>PENIS -- MALE>otherwise femaleSo you consider hermaphrodites to be male, even though they also have a uterus?
>>12941288There's a hard boundary between man and woman, it's called my dick.
>>12955927>>12955931lmao at this scientism
>>12941288Reminder to all of you underage fags that if you go against the top you'll end up in the bottom. You are property of the ruling class, no matter what you were told throughout your life.If they tell you trannies are women - repeat even if you know it's bullshit. Bad things will happen if you disobey and I assure you some people will be making their careers brighter by making yours darker.If you look at society as a military organization with make up, things regarding the consequences of disobedience to retarded orders might start making a tad bit more sense.
>>12956079if the ruling class gave a shit, I wouldn't need to do weird squirrely bullshit to get estrogen that isn't mystery water chinkshitwhy does everybody need to be a fucking victim of the Man
>>12956093>has trouble finding medicineDo you live in Saudi Arabia?
>>12956104well look at mister fucking informed consent over here. good for you, pal
>>12941288There's an easy way to mediate the ambivalence and that's redefining what it means to be male and what it means to be female. Males are those who ever impregnated someone and females are those who never did.
>>12941288>What did the elite of the scientific community mean by this?Nature is the kikes of scientific for-profit publishing, anon. Publishing is a lot different than science.
>>12941288>elite of the scientific communityMeds. Now.
>>12941293>>12941288>>12941627This explains a lothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxz0W4OgG9k>A fool hath said in his heart, ‘God is not;’ They have done corruptly, They have done abominable actions, There is not a doer of good.
>>12944233>straightyou meant to say cis? im sure you dont want to sound like an oppressing asshole.
the blackpill/big concealed secret is that no one would be male if they could help it
>>12941667NoLiberal values are a failureThe market has done nothing wrong
>>12956149But this is wrong.
>>12956093>he thinks the ruling class giving a shit is the same as "giving a shit"lmao
>>12956079men are not women. fuck off.
>>12941498In other words all tranoids have to do is cut their knobs off...