[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / asp / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr / x] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/sci/ - Science & Math

[Advertise on 4chan]

Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • Use with [math] tags for inline and [eqn] tags for block equations.
  • Right-click equations to view the source.
  • There are 45 posters in this thread.

08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
[Hide] [Show All]


Self-serve ads are available again! Check out our new advertising page here.


[Advertise on 4chan]


I personally find our education system to be a joke. It’s outdated and flawed. I for one would scrap the whole thing. I personally dislike how education straps you in with all the other students so you all have to learn at the same speed. It makes learning feel like a chore and once you get out of school you might be put off towards many intellectual topics due to how school manages itself. I really like how libertarians support the no schooling movement. It lets kids just do whatever they want and learn what they want. I think this is fine becuase most kids don’t remember anything they learn in school anyway. And for higher education, I would want things to be similar. Universities should just be replaced with libraries, either online or actual libraries. I don’t see a reason to have all the structure that universities currently have. People should simply learn what they want at their own time. I would have degrees either. If employers care, they could just find ways to filter out bad employees by specific tests. And if people really want to still have degrees they could do so without having to have all the classes and hours you have to complete for a degree. Instead it would just be one cumulative test to see how well you understand the subject. This is something that is already done if you look at how lawyers are liscenced to practice law. They take one test, the bar exam. Yes they go to law school but that wasn’t always the case. Universities just realized that they’d make more money by requiring a law degree to take the bar.

I just think college is pretty much a huge waste of money and is only useful for signaling to employers or getting an academic position. But it is perfectly reasonable to learn subjects like philosophy and theoretical physics without stepping foot in a classroom.
>>
retard
>>
Everyone takes an IQ test at age 2. Retards go to retard school to become burger flippers or plumbers. Smart kids go straight into university research programs.
Teachers have to sit the same exams as their students and if they don't get at least 100% they're fed into wood chippers.
>>
>>12579169
>our education system
who?
>>
>>12580777
Amerimutts
>>
>>12580775
>Everyone takes an IQ test
Pretty much
>Teachers have to sit the same exams as their students and if they don't get at least 100% they're fed into wood chippers
This but unironically. Can you imagine how much better education would be if teachers were regularly tested on their knowledge and comprehension?
>>
>>12580813
The education system is fucked in many countries. The worst examples are public schools where you cant fire the teacher even if they're underperforming
>>
>>12579169
Allow to take as many courses of your major in a year as you want. I reckon I could've completed my degree (econometrics) in a year by simply cramming all my courses in 10 days each. Effectively that's what I've done but spent the 2 months in between exams doing nothing
>>
File: bB-v1E-8_400x400.jpg (32 KB, 400x400)
32 KB
32 KB JPG
>>12579169
>I personally dislike how education straps you in with all the other students so you all have to learn at the same speed
>I really like how libertarians support the no schooling movement. It lets kids just do whatever they want and learn what they want
This is honestly the best solution. Public education attempts to do a "one size fits all" style of teaching, leaving some students behind and boring more advanced ones. On top of this many subjects become irrelevant when a student knows what they want to do in life (there's no reason for someone who wants to work in banking to take classes about astronomy). If students and parents are allowed more freedom to choose what style of education they want to pursue vis-a-vis the many options a competitive free market offer, the general public would become all around more effective. Of course this is unlikely to happen given the dumbing down of the population and massive bureaucratic interests in maintaining such a system.
>>
>>12579169
I wouldn’t trust myself to fix it since I’m a dumb fuck. Although I would change it so that there’s less bulk and more emphasis on career-based education.
>>
Objective based system.

Example: design a rocket under 500g that can reach 50ft. Here's some material that may be useful for you.

Oh you built it? Time to optimise your design and compete against your classmates for height. These pressure equations may be useful to find the optimal nozzle geometry.

Oh you won the competition? Okay, now you get 2kg to play with. You may want to consider different stages. You are now permitted some onboard electronics.

Oh you finished optimising that design? Okay, now I we want you to send the rocket to a set ground location. You may want to consider aerodynamic surfaces.

etc.

Any competent male loves this style of learning. Unfortunately we're stuck with the (((female))) method of mindlessly accumulating unusable knowledge.
>>
>>12579169
one word: gamification
>>
>>12579169
Dude in italy high school is just memorizing and repeating and forgetting, with homework and punishments for not doing them, or punishment not for being disruptive, but for not showing attention, in between, most teachers are just book readers, and you can only choose groups of subjects, not individual ones, you're stuck there 5/6/7 hours a day, for 5/6 days a week, just sit and listen, most teachers are boring, authoritarian without any reason, they just want to tell you what to do, like you cant go to the bathroom, you cant draw on your papers instead of listening because you're not interested, you must do the exercises I give for tomorrow otherwise I will give you a bad grade and also have a bad opinion of you and check what you do more in the future, no you cant use a individual papers for the test you just use the big folded ones etc
Nobody remembers what they study it's just a chore to pass the test because everyone feels that they MUST get the diploma, not technically true that you MUST but yes it is needed.
>>
>>12581375
Every developed nation is like that, and it sucks.
>>
>>12581490
Another Italian anon here but that has also studied abroad. Italian school system is way too old fashioned. Its main objective is to teach students how to parrot the book without ever learning anything and making students hate every subjects. Also there is no coursework or presentations which is when students get their independence and learn to do stuff on their own, as well as how to speak in public properly. At the end of the die all we learn is how to cheat (unironically probably 80% of males do). Also most teachers refuse to give out A*s or As removing incentives for people to work hard.

The only thing that works is that it doesn't follow the American system of no student left behind, so in classes like Maths and sciences you get to do some pretty nice stuff (side-note forgot to mention there are no labs for chem and bio). However, failing students is often up to the teacher's discretion and not how good he actually is as many grades are given in oral tests, so are very subjective.
>>
my biggest pet peeve with the current education system are high-stakes tests, if you study 10+ hours a day everyday but for whatever reason perform badly in a 1-2 hour exam then you get graded by the institution the same way as someone who literally didn't study all semester, you're seen as a failure even though you spent most of your life reading books and practicing
>>
Anyone find it curious that capitalist countries seem to have a more communistic/social education structure, whereas communist countries have a more free-market/merit-based system of education?
>>
>>12579169
Public primary education in the US is a glorified day care center. It’s not a coincidence that school is 8 hours long, it’s so mommy and daddy have a place to put junior while they go wageslave for Mr Toilstein. You could easily strip down public school into basic literacy and math courses with some PE and socializing time thrown in and you’d still only have a 4 hour school day. Implementing this would require a complete overhaul of our society because it would cripple single mothers and absolutely require a return to the nuclear family. Lol and good luck with that.

>one shot tests
Terrible idea. Especially using law as an example. People were cheating on the bar exam and becoming lawyers without ever setting foot in law school or even opening a book. That’s why states are making law school a prerequisite for taking the bar.

In the interest of public safety and well being, many professions would still benefit from a 4-5 year course in college with multiple comprehension and skill checks. One or two isn’t enough.
>>
>>12581576
Easy fix is to have the state put more money into extra-curriculars, particularly sports for kids at a young age.
>>
>>12581585
Extra money is antithetical. The point I’m making is that schools are bloated enough with busywork and need to be leaned out. Kids don’t belong in a classroom for 6 hours a day, 2-3 tops. Kids should be running around playing with other kids. But that would make teachers and all the other school staff into part timers. Can’t have that, gotta figure out a way to milk more money from the tax payer to create jobs that don’t add any value to our children’s lives.
>>
>>12581609
Right. My point is to remove the money going to elementary school teachers - who are equivalent to high-school drop-outs - and put it towards programs that allow kids to be running around, playing with each other, and providing more intermediate jobs for younger people. This would also probably save the tax-payers some money, since these supervisors would be younger, and not sit on the raised pedestal of "teacher".
>>
>>12581622
I see what your saying. Instead of bucketing everything under “school” there are independently operated “extracurricular” activities that parents can opt their kids into. I could get behind that.
>>
File: cx3cz6an0a461.jpg (71 KB, 640x692)
71 KB
71 KB JPG
>>12579169
First of all, schooling should start in 20s or by time you're 30. Nobody normal and sane is interested in anything other than sex, rock n roll, and vidya when they're young. Calculus? Civil war? Physics? Give me a fucking break. Nobody gives two shit about that when they're 16. At 16 you have three things on your mind - sex, drugs, and Morrowind.

By time they're in late 20s, people start to realize what they like and what they want to do. At 30 you start schooling and you finally have enough interest to study and learn properly. Everything before that is just to get teachers and parents off your back.

Grades should also be cancelled completely because they're irrelevant. If I learn 3 out of 100 things and I get those 3 things in questions, I get an excellent grade. If I learn 97 out of 100, and I get 3 I didn't learn, I fail. Bullshit.

I barely scraped through high-school and flunked out of college because it's useless waste of time. I didn't learn shit and I regret wasting those 12 years sitting in class for 6 hours a day. Only thing I remember from math is crossing 45 squares in my notebook for each minute until class was over. Literally don't know how to divide. I got highest grade on my tests because I saw test from previous year and they only changed numbers. I just repeated the process from my mind, and everyone thought I was genius. Lol what is even x? I Only thing worthwhile about school is hanging out with friends, that's the only redeeming quality.
>>
>>12579169
Abolish high school & middle school. Once you learn to read and do arithmetic, school has nothing to teach you.

Lots of jobs can be done by twelve year olds so from 12 - 18, kids can work or study or do whatever.

At 18, kids apply to college. People who aren't fit for school just don't get in.
>>
>>12581553
Can you make examples ?
>>
>>12581661
>I barely scraped through high-school and flunked out of college because it's useless waste of time.
"Am I stupid? No, that's impossible, I must have failed because it was a waste of my time"
Megacope
>>
>>12581576
I think that licenses shouldn't exist aside from the ones that can hurt uninvolved people like driving a plane or a car because if you crash you can hurt others, but for the rest you just make a database and a symbol people can show for seeing if someone has a license or not, so if you go to a doctor you can know if he's licensed or not, same for a restaurant to know if it follows hygiene standards or not, food would require the symbol on the box etc
>>
>>12581801
Well it seems like the US and a lot of other western countries have this notion of "no kid left behind" which really, equally means "no kid gets ahead". On the other hand, the most clear example would be the Soviets, where of course nobility would get many resources for education, but also anyone showing exceptional talent would receive the same resources, but the average kid would not.
>>
>>12579169
1. Acknowledge that some kids are better than others and teach them accordingly. This includes segregating high and low performing students into different classes or schools. By doing so, teachers no longer have to teach to the level of the lowest common denominator and don't have to deal with interruptions from niggers who can't go 15 minutes without saying some stupid shit.

2. School should be primarily vocational. People always talk about how our school systems are apparently failing us because a bunch of adults are scientifically illiterate, but they're actually just observing the effect of media programming people. It doesn't matter if you teach people the importance of vaccines in middle school if they join some Facebook mom group which they then conform to the groupthink in later on. Anything that does not have a practical lesson does not belong in a school.

3. Similar to point 2, but teach topics 'top down'. I.e. don't start everything from bare bones. Pick something to be done, a job like carpentry - building a table or something - and then teach mathematical concepts as they become useful for that job. Start talking about angles and trigonometry as it becomes relevant to the wood framing that you are doing.

4. More male teachers. Women are teaching children to be faggots and can't handle male children acting like men.

5. No 'teachers'. Do not hire anyone who has a degree in 'education'. Hire only people who have had careers in real jobs - tradesmen, engineers, scientists, etc. perhaps retired - and have them teach the job that they did. Not kidding, have an engineer come in and begin talking literally about the work that he has done. Classes could partially become job shadow programs.

6. Promote clubs and such outside of classes for more creative topics like literature and music. These can function as both social mingling between the sexes as well as teaching electives in a way that children might enjoy.
>>
>>12581817


>>12581817
>driving a plane or a car because if you crash you can hurt others
Just like a shitty doctor or contaminated restaurant
Dumbass
>>
>>12581899
Yes but the difference is that people can make an informed decision of going to that doctor or that restaurant or hiring that lawyer, while a crash is something that gets imposed on someone else at random.
>>
>>12581913
>people can make an informed decision
Most people are fucking morons, so no
>>
>>12581894
>Hire only people who have had careers in real jobs - tradesmen, engineers, scientists, etc. perhaps retired - and have them teach the job that they did.
Wouldn't work. The average person is pretty bad at explaining what they know to the uninitiated
>>
>>12581923
You just associate no "symbol" = risky, it must become a cultural thing
>>
>>12581927
Doesn't even matter. Just have them walk through their work, and students can gradually pick up patterns and ask questions to fill in the holes in their knowledge as is required. Working as an electrical engineer, I'm fairly confident that if I had a moderately intelligent middle or high schooler shadow me they could pick up on how to do a fair amount of my work in a reasonable amount of time and what they lack would encourage the natural process of questioning and search for knowledge.
>>12581935
Schizo
>>
Different schools for boys and girls. Move the high school curriculum into primary education and get rid of high school.
>>
>>12581944
Any number of widely-held irrational beliefs that currently exist in the world should suffice to show you that this is idealistic nonsense
>>
>>12581948
You don't have the first clue of how people are taught things lol
>>
>>12581977
So you say that you cant do that because people are too stupid?
>>
>>12582107
You're a fucking idiot
>>
File: education.png (176 KB, 640x3030)
176 KB
176 KB PNG
>>12579169
>I really like how libertarians support the no schooling movement. It lets kids just do whatever they want and learn what they want
Tried it in the 1970s, the Open Education Movement failed hard.
>>
File: sci's education reform.png (119 KB, 1216x970)
119 KB
119 KB PNG
>>12579169
>>
>>12582107
>Make it religious
Ok
>End LGBT,
Good
>teach children that science is just imagination, a tool
yes
>for communication. The thoughts are what matters, not the words.
>The spiritual has far more to do with reality.
and you're a false flag. Back to >>>/pol/
>>
>>12582152
That isn't even unreasonable. I'm convinced such reforms are denied to keep the population down and hold back the driven.
>>
>>12581661
What the fuck is a literal midwit of your caliber doing shitting up this board? Leave and never come back
>>
retard school, dumb school, average school, smarter school, genius school
start in average school, promote or demote depending on your grades
>>
>>12582351
Not him, but he's right. The world wasn't built by exam drones, but the world is sure ending under them.
>>
GROUP IN CLASSES BY APTITUDE INSTEAD OF AGE
>>
>>12582152
>philosophy only one year
HYLIC
>>
>>12580820
>>12580775
Genuinely low iq takes
>>
>>12582498
You missed his point, though:
you can do well on an exam on a good day, and do badly on a bad day. The result you get will stick forevermore.

And that aside, women and feminine men do very well on the sorts of exams you see all over the Western world. The system has accommodated the diversity you hate by hollowing the challenge.
>>
>>12580822
In india there are two kinds of government funded schools one is for "better" education other is for a shit act to show us that the care about poor kid's ed
>>
>>12579169
move more shit online. in fact covid was a blessing in this regard. record the best lecturers once so you dont need to pay people to redeliver the same stuff over and over
>>
>>12579169
Learning for a purpose in practical projects alongside efficient elearning and use of modern tech like videos, documentaries, apps, quizes, games etc. Mostly learning by doing and doing useful things.
For instance by not reading and writing shitty texts nobody cares about but interesting Wikipedia articles. Same for software writing exercises, research or media production (whatever you do) - one can often aim to publish it open source in some way.
>>
>>12580775
>Everyone takes an IQ test at age 2.

IQ doesn't increase linearly throughout development though. Children with high IQ's at 2 can end up having average IQ's as adults. It's like height in that way. A tall toddler can grow up to be a manlet.
>>
>>12582654
>you can do well on an exam on a good day, and do badly on a bad day. The result you get will stick forevermore.
The exam will be mostly correct in finding those that cross the IQ threshold. Nigger doesn't understand statistics what a surprise.
Exams have become a pleasantry here and SATs have always existed in even more harder forms than what you see today.
Wrong, the system has laxened to create the brown banana republic infested shithole we see today.
>>
>>12581168
You sound like a faggot. I wouldn't let you anywhere near my children
>>
>>12582699
IQ is more heritable the older you are. When you're young your apparent IQ is more susceptible to your environment - i.e. your random parental fuckups and successes might put you above or below the average of your parents - but you'll regress to the mean as you age.
>>
>>12581985
All of the shit about "how to teach people" is just cope by retards who can't naturally understand. Some niggers say "ayooo this shiet makes no sense" and all of these women in "education studies" weep about how we have to find 'different' ways of teaching to reach these poor souls. And then when giving them special learning and cooking the books doesn't work they just blame whitey.
>>
>>12582782
I don't want to be near your shitskin spawn.
>>
>>12582807
You're legit retarded lmfao
>>
File: 1604788405317m.jpg (141 KB, 1024x844)
141 KB
141 KB JPG
>>12581490
>Italy
>Developed nation
>>
File: D_pMiDIVAAA-Gc6.png (143 KB, 419x447)
143 KB
143 KB PNG
>>12581661
>At 16 you have three things on your mind - sex, drugs, and Morrowind.
Based hedonist.
>>
>>12579169
I'd get rid of it entirely, replace it with totally blind certification standards.
>>
>>12579169
honest answer, homeschooling.
or something similar to it, anything ran through public or private-meme schools seems to be real shit sometimes, and there should be enough resources to create a pretty good education these days.
>>
>>12583254
>America
>First world country
>>
>>12579169
I would motivate people to stay in, increase quality, made it lifetime thing, and first of all, more wider. Like people will really know stuff.

It would be about experience with matter, not just theory.
>>
>>12579169
>If employers care, they could just find ways to filter out bad employees by specific tests.
they do care for jobs that actually require specific knowledge, and those tests exist, there are many of them and you often have to take them on your own time with your own money
at least with a degree people know what it is and have some respect for it outside of one single industry, and you learn more than one single set of tasks
>>
>>12581168
I was with you until you started trying to talk about men vs. women like it's a fucking zero-sum contest and talking about [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[them]]]]]]]]]] like a fuckin moron
>>
>>12581825
>"no kid left behind" which really, equally means "no kid gets ahead"
no, kids still get ahead by taking advanced placement classes or even skipping a grade, not my fault you weren't good enough for that
>>
>>12581609
part of the purpose of school is to prepare for work, and I don't know what kind of job doesn't have at least 4-6 hour shifts
if you let kids go with just 2 hours a day they're hit a fucking wall when it comes time to actually work
>>
>>12581661
I'll have you know I loved learning and I loved lots of nerdy shit when I was in school. I still did badly because the assignments were fucking boring and I refused to do them, so you have a point about desires, but it's important to teach kids that sometimes you can't get what you want and you have to fuckin knuckle down and get shit done.
>>
>>12581894
>4. More male teachers. Women are teaching children to be faggots and can't handle male children acting like men.
being exposed to more men and less women will make boys have less faggotry? real big brain think there
>>
>>12579169
I would cut the last 2 years of high school off.
Instead , you work towards a diploma / start a trade. Or if you're doing something that requires content / isn't available in diploma form before uni, you do a more advanced gen ed.
>>
>>12579169
Separate the genders
>>
>>12579169
>dismantle the current system. Only allow technical knowledge like how to do stoichiometry for places where is actually needed.
>create a basic compulsory classical education school that doesn't last longer than 2 or 3 years.
>bring back the apprenticeship system. Lots of jobs experience from an early age.
>make this system flexible if the student wants to switch professions.
>make use of technology to speed up the learning of practical skills.
>unpussify lots of things.
>eliminate the "muh chilhood must be spent on frivolous shit" cult.

sadly, lefties and other authoritarian types would never allow this as they love to indoctrinate the naive
>>
>>12585907
It's not a contest, retard. Men and women have different styles of learning, and objectively the system currently works well for women.

If OP is looking for improvement, it is inevitable it will be male focused.

Idiot women like you need to be gagged.
>>
>>12579169
The educational system will always be flawed because employers need a reliable way to quickly determine if a candidate is qualified for a job. A degree does that, but universities have abused accreditation and fluffed higher learning with costly nonsense. Degrees/majors could be split up into smaller, more specialized certifications, so instead of having one B.S. or B.A. you could have dozens of certifications, but accreditation remains the problem, and whatever organization that controls the certs and demonstrates their rigor will abuse the system like universities have now. If there were several, maybe hundreds of programs that issue these certifications then they could keep each other in check. But eventually the bigger or better known ones will thrive and monopolize the space.
>tldr it's fucked
>>
>>12585926
I did skip a grade. One. Most schools don't allow that though. Also, one year is a very minor improvement.
>>
>>12579169
1) School is no longer mandatory. Most kids get nothing out of school, those who don't should fuck off rather than take resources from those who do.

2) College is no longer supported by government-issued loans. A big reason why it's so expensive is because colleges know they can charge basically whatever they want since the student isn't the one paying. It throws off the risk-reward calculus to have somebody else foot the bill.
>>
>>12585957
I mean faggots in the derogatory sense, not the literal sense. Right now when a boy acts like a man the female teachers tell him this is 'wrong' and to stop being aggressive, stop objectifying women, etc. They push all of the poz ideology.
>>
>>12581265
this works to some extent but the better game is rewarding someone for delayed gratification. If the game has no reward, no one cares.
>>
>>12581894
Unironically the best teachers I had in high school were formerly engineers/programmers/etc.
>>
>>12586479
This
>>
>>12587800
This
>>
>>12579169
Battle Royale

but seriously, serious STEM isn't taught until college. american's need to start loving their nerds again
>>
>>12588444
>serious STEM isn't taught until college
Even then, it's fucking baby shit. I went through 4 years of university only to learn fuck all about how to do anything. University is way too obsessed with 'teaching the fundamentals' and working from the ground up rather than bringing you up to speed with modern technology. For electrical engineering, I should not have to spend several courses covering the basics of FETs, BJTs, the physics of PN junctions, or the basics of signals/transforms. These should all be footnotes, a 'read in your own time' type of thing. We should be giving students the basic equations for the functionality of various transistors and then immediately dive into modern applications. Graduating from university, I had zero actual skills with which to apply to the modern workforce. Getting a job helped me figure what I'm actually supposed to fucking DO as an electrical engineer but holy fuck it could have been so much more accelerated than spending 4 years with a bunch of fucking midwits jerking off over resistor networks and op amps.
>>
>>12589501
University isn't supposed to be job training.

>I had to be paid on the job to learn how to do my job; THIS IS BAD!1
>I want to pay my money to learn how to do a job I haven't secured yet
Conservatives are dumb and brainwashed by the Jews....
>>
>>12579169
Public schools exist for the sole reason of indoctrinating children into the ideology which is approved by the state.

The best way the learn is 1:1 tutoring with an expert. This would be extremely expensive however. Therefore I would suggest ramping up the research that we do on automated tutoring systems. With the recent advances in AI that could actually be possible I think and would hopefuly deliver high quality education to everyone with access to a computer.
>>
>>12589962
>>I had to be paid on the job to learn how to do my job; THIS IS BAD!1
Never said this.
>>I want to pay my money to learn how to do a job I haven't secured yet
Yes. Why would I pay money to learn things which aren't really relevant to a career that I would like to pursue? I was duped by my high school, parents, the university's advertising, and society at large into believing that university will equip me with the skills required to succeed in middle-upper class jobs. What I got was 4 years of covering the basics of electronic circuits which would be sufficient if I wanted to be on the cutting edge of technology in the 70's. Not so for 2020. Sure I can get jobs, but I basically have to beg. I have no specific skills which make me capable of competing in a job market. Now that I've worked a couple years as an electrical engineer, I realize I fucking hate it, and I don't want to invest more fucking years into some stupid subject just to discover that the job isn't what I expected of it.





Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.