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100 apus -edition
previous thread >>12322754

We discuss research, DO NOT offer advice (just see your family physician), make fun of premeds and shitpost.

>inb4 not science
>>
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reminder
>>
How much of a meme is RICE? I heard even its inventor turned on it. What should replace it?
>>
>>12350539
oh will you people just please stop changing shit
>>
>>12350539
shittiest carb
>>
Please post a link to the apu collection
>>
>>12350555
Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation, not the carb.
>>
>>12350555
Hey senpai, it works for the Japanese, the greatest culture on earth desu.
>>
Is it possible to develop carpal tunnel and tennis elbow in the same arm simultaneously? Is it safe to wear braces for both at once?
>>
>>12350617
why wouldn't it be
>>
Sorry for repost, but maybe someone has an idea:

Guys, got a problem. I was pretty sick in the beginning of this year and had to sit around all day. Then Corona made me sit around even more for work.
I get weird symptoms sometimes, heart racing, chest pounding, pain on my upper spine (not extreme), crazy hard muscles around some vertebrae, panic attacks that last for half an hour or so.
I'm 99% convinced it's because of a problem with my upper spine. Doctors ruled out the heart and a slip disc. One doctor recommended doing sports, so I did that, but last time I did pull-ups, my heart started pounding again and I heard it beating extremely loud in my left ear.

What the fuck is going on?
>>
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>ER
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>1st day of 8 week general surgery placement
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>>12350784
i feel ya, like six months to graduation and I feel like doing fuck all
>tfw i wont see my med school friends any more
>have to waste 40+ hours a week on a job i don't care
>only thing i get out of it is money
when does life begin bros?
>>
>>12350700
it's not that bad
>>
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>>12350589
i'll do an updated one tomorrow
>>
>>12350700
what's the big deal bro, there's literally 10-20 things you need to remember to function in an ER
>infusions
>antibiotics
>insulin
>steroids
>adrenaline
>glucose
>naloxone
the rest is up to the people you transfer the patient to
nursoids can work the ER and stabilize people, no problem, as long as they can transfer patients to actual surgeons and internists

it is literally just flow
>>
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>>12350700
>Dermatology
>>
FUCK. Might have gotten carpal tunnel syndrome because of working so hard autistically and fucking up my elbows. Anyone else got something similar? What do?
>>
>>12350896
>What do?
you can't diagnose yourself a carpal tunnel or a desk elbow without a clinical exam
go see your doctor
>>
>>12350967
There's a pandemic going on, Can't do that. I got some cream and am changing the way I work from now on. Also got a splint
>>
>>12351015
hmmm
try to take it easy on your arm for a couple of weeks
also when you sleep, make sure you are doing it in an intelligent position
google carpal tunnel sleep position
i am however not convinced you have carpal tunnel from >>12350896
you can also go on youtube and write 'carpal tunnel self diagnosis' or something similar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bOYvEADHyU

try these tests from the video and do exactly as he does and see what happens
>>
>>12351115
I've had this numbness on my right pinky finger for 2 months or so. I rang my doctor and told him my symptoms. I still have nerve functioning and no fasciculations.
>>
>>12351143
*Cubital tunnel, not carpal tunnel
>>
>>12351143
>I've had this numbness on my right pinky finger
ok that's the elbow indeed, the ulnar nerve
google around for remedies and correct position of the arm when you sleep and sit
i don't actually know if flexed, extended in the elbow or what's best
>>
>>12351163
Yes, thanks for responding. My doctor told me to put on some Ibuprofen Gel, massage it and get a splint (don't have a split now but bought one of Amazon) Kinda worried as well. I've also stopped working out my right arm as much and only done left arm gym exercises.
>>
>>12351174
I wish I could get this checked up through scans and stuff but I cant.
>>
>>12351174
avoid working out and repetitive movements as well as applying pressure to it
are you otherwise healthy and not taking any sort of medication?
>>
>>12351197
Is it ok to not work out my right arm though and work out the rest of my body? I can't avoid studying (doing dentistry) and flexing my elbow when Im working. I'm fairly healthy, not obese. On a big cut (diet wise) so i'm losing weight, maybe a bit too quickly. Not on any medications.
>>
>>12351209
>Is it ok to not work out my right arm though and work out the rest of my body?
yeah, i guess that's ok
if the ibuprofen Gel fails:
you can also try ibuprofen orally 200-400 mg three times a day for NO more than 3-4 weeks (bad for the stomach if taken for more than that)
combined with paracetamol 1 gram 4 times a day for the same 3-4 weeks
that's like a super standard NSAID run, but don't take them above the daily max
that's what i would try on myself if i had an elbow messing with my daily activities

also take it easy with the big cut, if you want things to heal, you can't starve yourself
>>
>>12350801
when you become a father
>>
>>12350596
Thanks r*ddit friend
>>
>>12351271
Thanks anon.
>if you want things to heal, you can't starve yourself
Tbh, I feel great food wise. I'm not starving myself but am losing weight fairly quickly (like 0.2 kg a day). I have read on Wiki that Carpal tunnel can be fixed with the right treatment so hopefully that works.
>>
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I'm a nurse, used to work in the ER. I like what the ER is supposed to be, but I hate the homeless, mentally ill, poor people, hypochondriacs and calling cabs for people. Where can I work that's supposed to be an ER without the bullshit?
>>
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>>12350525
That which was clamped, must now also clamp.
>>
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>>12351705
That which was vaxxed, must now also vaxx.
>>
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>>12351713
That which was circumcised, must now also circumcise.
>>
>>12350853
Wipe your tears with bills.
>>
>>12350525
>no advice
Why tho. It is free practice and people get interactive webmd for free. Win win.
Of course they are aware they are seeking medical advice on a mongolian basket weaving forum but still
>>
>>12350525
Anatomy exam today wish me luck lads
FUCKKKVJks
>>
remember, the hip bones conected to the wrist bone

the wrist bones connected to the

thigh bone

guarantee 4.0 gpa
>>
Is being a doctor really as blackpilling as people say it is? I love physiology, but I’m unsure I’d want to sacrifice a decade of my life in order to work long hours with patients whose diseases are easily preventable
>>
>>12353832
anyone can get sick, just a fact
so no
>>
>>12353705
Holy fuck, that was my first exam in medical school

Brutal, I can't believe I went from being at the top of my class to barely probably getting half the questions right on that test. Holy shit.
>>
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>>12350700
>Psychiatry
>>
>>12353940
Oh buddy, the kids with big fish in small pond syndrome always make the best fail stories.
>>12353470
I did not spend 7 years of my best years (20s) grinding my ass against the textbook so a double digit IQ khv feels entitled enough to ask me to work for free.
>>
>>12350525
Hi, are Portugal and Morocco med?
>>
>>12354145
>Oh buddy, the kids with big fish in small pond syndrome always make the best fail stories.
tell me about them, what stories
>>
>>12354145
>I did not spend 7 years of my best years (20s) grinding my ass against the textbook
only person here who sounds like a brainlet is you
>>
>>12353470
because it clogs up the thread with people begging for advice and kills any real discussion
>>
>>12353832
it's a personality thing, some get blackpilled, some don't
>>
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>>12350700
>break room
>>
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>>12350589
there ya go
https://mega.nz/folder/8JdEDTIA#gMxtWrsVgEAc5m38_73yyg
>>
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>>12354177
>no u
So this is what an ascended mind does?
>>
how do i make my hands more steady, im almost a surgeon and everytime i get slightly nervous my hand and head/neck start shaking. how to stop being a mess?
>>
>>12354288
im sure the premeds and the students in this thread can help you
>>
>>12354288
just fucking chill bro
>>
>>12351705
>>12351713
>>12351719
break the cycle
>>
>>12354291
we have residents here too
>>12354308
how bro?
>>
>>12354502
Chew bubblegum.
>>
Is DID real? Can switching be detected on brain scans? People say they do but Im unsure about this
>>
>>12350853
>Dermatology
over glorified beauty creams salesman
>>
>>12350525
>general microbiology course
HOW is this so fucking boring?
>>
>tfw suicidal ex junkie turned md
i am always a step away from raiding the drug depot
the times in my life when i was high is literally the happiest i've ever been
i've been completely teetotal for the last year but it feels completely pointless, like an empty achievement
i'm considering seeking help

anyone here ever 'talk to someone'
any recommendations, ideas, thoughts?
>>
>>12354502
Idk, just be aware of the moment and your own nervousness, take a step back and calm down. Experience helps too.
>>
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>>12354538
unfortunately yes
>>
How good of an anti-emetic is metoclopramide?
>>
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>>12354626
microbiology was kino, just endless labs and shooting shit with friends
>>
>>12354896
get some comfy low stress job with reduced access to drugs
>>
>>12355010
decent
>>
>>12354896
talking to someone is great idea, also minimizing stressors and temptations is useful
>>
>tfw forgot to rub one out today and just realized I've been leering at everyone looking like a horny coomer
>>
>>12355023
Will it keep me from throwing up 16 grams of pentobarbital?
>>
>>12355044
I feel ya
t. high test coomer pro
>>
>>12354896
You have to realize by yourself the reason why you used to take drugs. Lots of times it may not be the high itself but the "friends" around you or the sense of zoning out that you got from it. Nobody turn an addict out of personal fulfillment, the was something you lacked and tried to fill with the cozy embrace of drugs.
I once got so high on dudeweed420lmao that I started to feel as if someone was hugging me and felt a warmth on my back and if as some woman breath on my shoulder. It was good but after it I felt miserable since it was not real.
Addictive personalities may canalize their dopamine needs by doing something more productive or at least less harmful, like lifting, reading or playing competitive videogames.
>>
>>12355100
dunno, not very experienced in killing myself
>>
>>12354538
Yes. Don't know about the brain scan aspect, but DID is certainly real.
>>
>>12350525
>tfw rotationplasty
>>
>>12355248
why'd you need one.
>>
>>12355432
Not the guy that posted it but I'd guess that the pt had a gruesome fracture on the tibial head so the traumatologist decided to implant a mechanical knee to avoid leaving the patient with a stanky leg.
Pt probably did not attend his physician therapy so he rekd his shit again and decided to become a frankenstein monster.
>>
>>12355432
Osteosarcoma near the knee joint, I guess that's better than having an stiff wooden-like leg
>>
Bro’s look at my esophagus. Pretty sweet huh.
>>
>>12355646
i know that hole
>>
>>12355662
You are an Indian women GI?
>>
>>12355646
Cool thx for posting. Whats the story, whyd u get a gastroscopy
>>
>>12355696
I have eosinophilic esophagitis they were doing a biopsy to check if the eosinophils levels were down since I have been taking my medication. Why do all GI doctors seem to be black or Indian? Are illnesses related to the gastrointestinal system more common in Africa and India?
>>
>>12355721
Poo in loo+ hepatitis+esophagic belt
>>
>>12355721
GI is a more competitive internal medicine specialty
>>
>>12355210
How does it work? I thought there was no evidence for it
>>
>>12350525
Ok, I have had a condition for years, where my lips develop a white layer of skin on top of my bottom lip, and then it peels(Looks like exfoliative cheilitis).

Another thing I've had, and it's gotten worse, is pain when I press my stomach(when it flares up and I've eaten something wrong). Had gas and gut issues for years(sometimes get the shits).

Now my little brother is developing the exact same symptoms. I went to multiple doctors, but all the blood taking, sent in my shit, and where I ended up was; something is wrong when we looked at your shit.

But after that my doc did a 3 month vacation and I moved during that time.

What do? Should I do a colonoscopy? How do I reliably find out if I have food allergies/intolerances(patch test found nothing)? This shit is fucking my life. And now my lil' brother's getting it.
>>
Just found this one and I thought you might enjoy it as well!!!
>>
>>12356708
Synonymous word funny
>>
>>12356619
You probably spent most of the time constipated and developed chronic colitis over it, your brother the same because he eats the same shit as you do.

Of course with this little information how are we supposed to work.
>>
Med student here, shitting my fucking brains out for the past 26 hours, what are some signs that I should consider going to the hospital?
>>
>>12356848
>imagine investing your precious time working for free
That under the implications that your time is worth shit, since you're most likely a MS retard.
>>
>>12356749
>synonymous
Oh NO!
>>
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>>12356848
Thanks anon, I quit eating like shit though, years ago. So I'm doing better on avarage. My brother isn't even 10, so there's that.
>>12356884
Anon, no need to be a rear receiver about it.
>>
What did you say when asked why you wanted to be a doctor in med school interviews.
How to give a meaningful answer that doesn't sound like generic bullshit?
I think saying that I want to get an autistic understanding of the human body won't go over well.
>>
>>12357040
A blessing of the 3rd world is that we don't have to go under idiotic interview and whatever bullcrap is good to keep the profession as a lobby.
However we were always asked that question on 1st day of class. I decided medicine because it interested me, simple as.
Anyone can help, nurses specially. Anyone can learn human function, biomedical engineers specially. Anyone can read long hours, philosophers specially.
Only requirement you need to study medicine is the will to do so. You don't need to justify it or become a virtue signalling retard.
>>
>>12357148
i am a firstie in europe (scandinavia) and we didn't get interviews either, just apply with your grades from school
>>
>>12357040
whatever it is, hit all these boxes
I am convinced that a poorly articulated answer to this question was what failed me the interview at my first choice school, got into the second choice though.
>>
med bros, should I major in medicine or go on to study physics, I'm a eurofag btw
>>
>be me
>hypothyroidism under control with levothyroxine
>still sleep constantly
Not as bad as before diagnosis, but still quite a lot. Been diagnosed for around 7 years.
>>
>>12357821
physics is fun but a bitch to make a living with if you don't want to be a code monkey or a teacher
>>
>>12350656
Probably tight muscles around the scapula or the erector spinae causing the pain.
The rest is just you panicking at the symptoms, probably have generalised anxiety disorder or panic attacks.
>>
How do I get a prescription for ritalin or some other ADHD medication? I live in eastern europe and I'm not sure going to a psychiatrist would be much of an option, can I buy some other ADHD meds online?
>>
>>12358324
Dunno. Not familiar at all with pharmaceutical safety in eastern europe.
A quick read of your local laws would be enough for you to figure out the legal/practical void, that would work if you're bright enough; which I highly doubt since your first choice was asking a tuvan xbox repair forum to spoon-feed you.
>>
>>12354484
Yes. And break that which would continue the cycle.
>>
>>12354896
Do you have friends?
>>
>>12356619
What's your general level of fitness (not health)?
What's your oral health regimen?
>>
>>12358324
Not very hard if you have ADHD / believe you have it. Even the most conservative countries are pretty lax on Ritalin. Most systems will let you easily get enough for personal use.

Though if you try to sell/abuse them you're fucked. Abusing is pretty much impossible because you'll quickly build tolerance. If you try to sell, local LEO will easily notice if you're selling a lot and your name will be there on a silver platter on your RX.
>>
I have been sick for 3 weeks. My symptoms:

Joint/muscle pain and tinglings
Fatique
Feeling dizzy
I'm sweating more than I usually do
A feeling of fever but still not fever
Headache

What is it?
>>
>>12358870
Go see a doctor immediately
>>
>>12358870
>>12358878
seconded what anon said, it could be something mild to some wild shit, see a doctor.
>>
>>12358870
Go. See. Your. Doctor.
>>
>>12358728
take a guess
>>
>>12355248
Someone post the pasta about surgeons being carpenter quacks
>>
>>12358982
Social isolation / lack of community / lack of personal contact. These lead to pressure on your sense of purpose and meaning in life. This was an epidemic before the pandemic, across the developed world. How do you fight it? Continually reaching out, involving yourself, even superficially, in others lives. Particularly, touching base with people you see every day, even if just to make eye contact, and say hi. Smile, the whole world smiles back at you as they say. The people who live on your block, in your building, are a source of comfort if you know them. Define for yourself a "home territory". This could be the space around your place, or a place you choose, like a coffee shop (problematic at the moment). In this territory, reserve the right to be gregarious, to be open. When someone passes through that territory, be interested in who they are. Take note of symbols and statements that telegraph meaning and interests. Assume that a person's unrevealed experiences will be interesting. Strike up conversations in a spirit of bonhomie. Acknowledge the presence of others with eye contact, and reserve the right to unapologetic, permission-less initiation of conversation, if they seem open to it.

That's the social prescription. The personal platform is eschewing bad drugs especially alcohol, pills, cigarettes.

If you're more of the autistic type, some further rules might help. For example, do not address anyone if they are not looking at you (from the side, from behind.) If they are facing you and your eyes meet, say "hello". Make a rule to acknowledge people who follow these rules as well. And finally realize your problems are more or less the same as everyone else's, and everyone wants the same basic things. We all have an inherent drive to know what others experience, and to be familiar with the people we see everyday. It is kind of like detective work. You are interested in them; they are interested in you; these all converge.
>>
>>12358870
There must be dozens of things that could cause that. Covid is one particularly obvious example nowadays but far from the only one. Definitely call up an actual doctor.
>>
>>12359119
thank you for the effort.
i try to talk to people and colleagues but am just a toxic person i think, not that i say anything weird or offensive, i just get nervous and start spouting trivia that bores people and makes me look like an ass hole
however, i think my biggest problem is that i'm ugly so people, especially the females stay away
and there's no fix for that, also i missed my best years
all i ever wanted was to have a gf/wife that's also a doctor so we could share the experience and be able to talk things through and discuss stuff and help each other

i will keep trying for the next couple of years, i still have some hope, but it's slim
>>
>>12359184
What you have is self-limiting beliefs which are the sticking points in a lot of cases of depression. What you frame as "objective" truths are simply not. Your prior beliefs establish the perceptive filters that have been calibrated to affirm these beliefs. So when you look in the mirror you see "ugly", when someone seems to ignore you, you think they don't like you, etc.

Most people think that they are building a life like they're building a house. Certain raw materials, certain processes, and following a plan are calibrated to deliver a predictable result. But in fact, all it does it reinforce a false sense of security that you can, in some way, make life more deterministic, when it will remain stubbornly serendipitous. Instead, use your time constructively without respect to outcomes, to create opportunities for chance events to occur without deliberative planning- instead of forever trying to triangulate toward some objective, eg., you work out because it makes you feel better, not that its intention is to make you look better.

Think critically about dominant thought processes that are resistant to change. As we age we become less flexible intellectually and this process can start very early. Crystallized thought processes should be literally dissolved. The cognitive method of approaching this is to assume the premises of those closely-held beliefs are, in fact, untrue, and being relentless in self-assessment of the framing in which we contextualize internal experiences. In other words, external validation of those techniques is not what is prescribed. The totality of the success of these treatments is internal to the cognitive process- ideation, or internal dialogue.

Lastly, I think you would benefit from regular sessions with a therapist.
>>
>>12359324
>Lastly, I think you would benefit from regular sessions with a therapist.
i was thinking of making an appointment
i am considering keeping my profession a secret though, at least to begin with
>>
>>12358743
Oral health = perfect. I brush every morning and before sleep. Take care of them and let the dentist check up aswell. I asked my dentist and she said it wasn't from my teeth for sure, since I did a swab test and they found nothing from that aswell + the look of them.

Fitness: slipping, but I used to be decent. Let's say dormant, slaving away in CS. But not a fat slob either. Skinny fat bastard atm(hitting the gym once I get income again)
>>
>>12359445
I'd like to add, there was a time where I worked out every day. Not saying it isn't a better lifestyle, but my lips still kept peeling.
>>
I am not a medical professional but keep up the good work guys
>>
>>12359445
You can do push-ups and other body weight exercises.
>>
>>12357663
You're not supposed to hit all the canmeds roles in your answer, no one can realistically do that. If you tried to do that your answer will sound disingenuous and convoluted af.
>>
how does LH and FSH affect/sperm production?
>>
>>12360500
* semen/sperm
>>
>>12360500
lh is required for test production which is essential for spermatogenesis and fsh affects the process directly, both are needed
>>
can a week of b12, betamethasone and ketorolac injection cause such spasm of bladder where you can’t urinate? not likely right?
>>
>>12361105
right
>>
>>12350525
Should all people in the medical industry be gassed for propagating their witchdoctor nonsense to the point of crippling economies?
>>
>>12361318
you hate us literally cuz you anus
yeah i can shut down your economy if i wanted to, yeah i'm essential i can make you work from home
we just had to remind you how things be right quick before you laymen start thinking you matter and shit
boil, seethe and cope

seriosusly though, you don't know what you're talking about so gtfo
>>
>>12361318
all people should be gassed
>>
>>12361318
This past year I've enjoyed the suffering of normshits and non-essential workers. About damned time the economy realized that 70% of their pencil pushers are leeches and the rest expendable cattle.
gg stay rekd
>>
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My clinical gross anatomy professor is literal creationist. If you ask questions about evolution of the body and joints or musculature she squirts the question and nearly mentions god.

Keep in mind she has a fucking doctorate degree. Fucking aids.
>>
>>12361935
>My clinical gross anatomy professor is literal creationist.
that's kinda weird but it's fairly irrelevant
if you know the anatomy by heart it doesn't really matter if you believe god created it or evolution

also you are probably autistic and didn't get she wasn't 100% serious
>>
>>12359790
thx bruh
feels good being appreciated for once
>>
>>12361939
Nah she was serious. Literally insane to have a PhD in any medical field and still be a creationist. This bitch is also an antimasker and started talking political corruption when she heard about the corona vaccines being released after the election cycle.
>>
>>12350533
Nurses are based though.
>>
>>12361951
Although it is odd it shouldn't surprise you at all since she is american, and as any american you can expect her to be fucking braindead.
>>
>>12362005
On topic. Is it easy for medical doctors to immigrate to the EU? Fuck this shithole.
>>
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>>12361954
cringe
>>
>>12362069
depends on the country
>>
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>>12362089
cringe
>>
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>>12362094
seethe
>>
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>>12362112
dilate
>>
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>>12362125
rent free
>>
>>12362093
>>12362093
this, some are very lax, but some have very high barriers to protect the native docs, once you get licensed to practice in one EU country, it gets a bit easier to move around
>>
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>>12362804
>the introductory course for Norwegian practice costs 50NOK
>>
>>12362833
>50NOK
that's like 10 bucks what's the problem
>>
>>12362843
Oh sorry, I mistyped. It's 50k Nok.
>>
>>12362848
emigrating aint free believe it or not
>>
>>12362833
>the introductory course for Norwegian practice costs 50NOK

what about doctors educated in the EU?
Because Norway is on my list and I have some friends there. But I'm not going to be able to conjure 5k euros out of my ass to start working there.
>>
>>12362878
>what about doctors educated in the EU?
you can practice there afaik, but you'll probably need to pay for language classes and probably start as a basic resident for a year, which aint even that long
>>
>>12362862
Enjoy the syrian engineers and somalian doctors.
>>
>>12362862
>emigrating aint free believe it or not
If you're out of africa the only fees you pay is for the human trafficker. Last bill is for the boatman, rest is on the European taxpayer.
European governments spends 5-10x more money on a stranger that shows up with no papers than they do on their own born, bred and educated citizens.
I'd rather pay a tax to combat subs to make the mediterranean a no-float-zone.
/rant
>>
>>12362885
>but you'll probably need to pay for language classes
I speak Swedish so I can probably bypass that.
>>
>>12362900
true
you'll pick up norwegian quickly then
you'll have no trouble moving there if your diploma is swedish
>>
>>12362889
>>12362894
>the only type of emigration is being a refugee
ok zoomers
>>
>>12362894
Euros sabotage themselves. They cry about their shortage on licensed professionals but will make it as hard as possible for laymen to move while on the other side they even house "refugees" by the hundreds.
>>
>>12362903
>if your diploma is swedish
It's polish, that's my problem.
Finnish citizen, speaking swedish with polish diploma.
I'm clusterfucked by a bureaucratic nightmare.
>>
>>12362878
Within the EU your md is automatically recognized and you can do whatever a native graduate could do (apply for residencies etc), specializations are also "automatically" recognized if both countries have the same specialty, though this is a bit more murky in practice as you might have to cut through a lot red tape to be able to actually practice. Norway is a bit tricky because they are not in the EU, I don't know if they do have a deal with the EU. At least the Nordic countries have a separate agreement that allows for docs to move between those countries freely, though that predates the EU.
>>
>>12362930
just get valvira to legalize you and fuck off to norway, finnish docs can work in norway without any hassle
>>
>>12362930
>It's polish, that's my problem.
>Finnish citizen, speaking swedish with polish diploma.
you should be fine
there's tons of polish doctors in scandinavia
>>
>>12362953
>just get valvira to legalize you
Valvira will only legalize me if I'm fully legalized in Poland. So there goes any future plans of staying in Finland.

I hope the Norwegian systems allows legalizing within the Norwegian system without needing Polish papers because otherwise I might as well wipe my ass with my degree and start stacking shelves.
>>
>>12362941
>Within the EU your md is automatically recognized
No. I need to complete a post graduation practice work thing and the Polish State Board Exam LEK or whatever it's called.
Only after that will automatic recognition apply to me. I would however prefer to live the rest of my entire life without ever putting my foot on Polish soil again, so I'm looking for a bypass. I thought I had an option for solving this in Finland but valvira fucked me over so I'm looking for another solution.
>>
>>12363118
>>12363108
>goes to study MEDICINE abroad
>doesn't bother to learn the language
what the fuck, you never talk to patients over there or what? You can't be a doctor without having interacted with patients

but why am i surprised when you were too dumb to get into a finnish school anyways so you had to essentially buy a diploma in poland while doing less work than actual polish students
>so I'm looking for another solution.
yeah sit your ass down and learn polish so you can pass the post grad year
>>
>>12363108
>>12363118
Ya dun goofed, embrace the suck and do your three years, no other way around it.
>>
>>12363134
What's an English language program?
What's patients speaking English?
What's interpreters?
What's the local system changing the same year I graduate to make it harder to get legalized?
What's the wage for a fresh doctor in Poland?(hint: it's less than four digits in euros)
I'll go work for Big Pharma or international consultants if this doesn't pan out.
>>
>>12363142
>embrace the suck and do your three years
I think you fail to understand the situation.
3 year in Finland gives me an YEK, the YEK is not accepted by Valvira as a step to legalization for foreign students. They will ask me to take it to Poland for Legalization and if Poland legalizes me then Valvira will consider doing the same. The only other option is to apply to the same process as those who studies outside the EU.
>>
>>12363176
I meant Poland, YEK is two years.
>>
>>12363159
>What's an English language program?
that's no excuse, they're literally just using you and other westerners who failed to get into their own unis - to make easy money
also what's a young person that lived up to 6 years in a foreign country without learning the local language
and most importantly
>speaking to some 75 year old polish lady with an interpreter
that's embarrassing and soulless. Just imagining it makes me cringe
>What's the wage for a fresh doctor in Poland?(hint: it's less than four digits in euros)
that doesn't matter, since we both know your parents are paying your fees and covering your expenses anyways

medicine isn't like cs or engineering, it takes more and that's why most countries have a post grad clinical period

time to put on your big boy pants and actually earn your place among us without looking for shortcuts
>>
>>12363218
3 for foreign students. Though I don't see the point of it even existing as it's completely useless.

Poland is out of the question. I would need to speak fluent polish to do anything there and again, the wage is what? 500 euros a month?

Sweden is an option if Norway turns non-viable, or someplace else in Europe that values doctors more than their local bureaucrats. Or Pharma/Consulting.
>>
>>12363238
>>speaking to some 75 year old polish lady with an interpreter
>that's embarrassing and soulless. Just imagining it makes me cringe
A family doctor in some parts of Sweden have 50% of patient contacts through phone interpreter due to the migrant density.
>since we both know your parents are paying your fees
They are Dead. What are student loans? Thanks for being an asshole, asshole.
>>
>>12350525
How do you circumcise someone and live with yourself? Doesn't it damage your core sense of identity, knowing you were pressured into mutilating someone's genitals? Sadists and psychopaths need not apply, I'm curious about what realer people have to say.
>>
>>12363250
so you're just as dumb as a migrant who can't learn swedish, that's your excuse?
or do you expect your 75 yo patient to know english
>They are Dead. What are student loans? Thanks for being an asshole, asshole.
i don't believe you
you just seem like too much of a spoiled brat for that to be true, always seeking shortcuts
>>
>>12363244
>Though I don't see the point of it even existing as it's completely useless.
It's a EU thing, we don't need it but apparently most European med schools can't produce competent docs out of the gate. I'd assume you'll have the same shit with Norway and Sweden. And I can't imagine you'd be very hot shit to pharma/MBB with just your polish md.
>>
>>12363305
>I'd assume you'll have the same shit with Norway and Sweden
you would be ccorrect
they both have postgrad clinical periods, also denmark and germany
and apparently poland too
it's probably an EU standard requirement so all the schools adhere to it
>It's a EU thing, we don't need it but apparently most European med schools can't produce competent docs out of the gate.
it's essentially a way of moving the gate a year or two further
>>
>>12363305
>It's a EU thing, we don't need it but apparently most European med schools can't produce competent docs out of the gate.

Direct legitimation is a thing with doctors from Poland today. Had I started my education a bit later I would've been fully legitimized, because turns out the postgraduation practice is a retarded system.

Also you still don't understand. The YEK serves absolutely no purpose. You don't get legitimized after doing it if you have a foreign degree. You don't get higher wage if you have a local degree. It's a completely worthless piece of paper. It's originates from some EU initiative but it serves no actual purpose.
>>
>>12363339
>it's probably an EU standard requirement so all the schools adhere to it
Direct legitimation is a thing. A lot of countries have it and more moves towards it because it makes things a million times more simple. Doesn't mean you're more competent when you leave school but it means you're not stuck in a never ending nightmare of applications, queues and paperwork.

There is a standardized EU intiative for postgraduation studies but these are not binding in the EU in any way. It's up to the local legislature to either care a lot, a little or not at all if you have it or not.
>>
>>12363358
regardless, you can't be a lazy fennoswede that can't learn a language in 6 years so he could round off his studies
dude's more interested in the title rather than actually earning it
>>
>>12363340
>Also you still don't understand. The YEK serves absolutely no purpose. You don't get legitimized after doing it if you have a foreign degree. You don't get higher wage if you have a local degree. It's a completely worthless piece of paper. It's originates from some EU initiative but it serves no actual purpose.

No. I understand perfectly. As I said, we don't need it, but we have it because most EU/ETA countries had a system where MDs were not considered competent enough to practice straight out of school. So in order to establish automatic recognition of degree inside the EU they decided they need a universal post graduate period. We didn't have such a period before as the assumption was (and still is) that a MD is competent enough to practice straight out of school, but we created it to comply with the EU regulations. It was literally called the eurolääkärivaihe (euro doctor phase) before.
>>
>>12363385
There's thousands of people in Poland doing the English language programs. No one stays in Poland after medschool for wrapping it up because it's a retarded choice. You're oblivious to the context if you think it's a good idea, or retarded.
>>
>>12363397
>but we created it to comply with the EU regulations
Several other EU countries don't offer it so it's not necessary to have such a program.
It's also pointless because it gives no additional qualifications, whoever in Finland that decided that it should exist in finland at all was obviously just sitting on additional resources that they needed a black hole to dump things into.
>>
>>12363412
Kek, if the EU comes up with absolutely anything Finland will implement it religiously, you should know this.

A part of it is also to force docs into primary care for the nine month period to in an inane way to provide workers for the public sector.
>>
>>12350525
Is it possible that dyspraxia, autistic like tendencies, mild psychosis, mild digestional issues and above average intelligence (not meaning to wank myself off) are all part of one larger condition?

In which case I call it "retarded anon syndrome".
>>
>>12363470
this guy was clamped
>>
>>12363541
Yes, probably. Cesarean and born "in distress" (oh noes!) and thus immediately clamped and taken from my mother without her even getting to hold me.
>>
>>12363551
>>12363470
That's it. You were warned about spamming and now we have to turn on the brain fog beam. YOU MADE US DO THIS
>>
>>12363638
Nah Anon, I already think like that. You can't exploit a near solipsistic well of uncertainty and an inability to resolve ambiguity, if it's already been thoroughly tapped, traced out, and accepted. Sorry if I'm no fun. ;^(
>>
Anyone ever heard of someone contracting PML after his immune system was weakened not by HIV but by stress?
>>
>>12350525
Finals are comming up and I just jerked off
>>
>>12363862
Ya blew it.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4JFR6gqP6A&ab_channel=StrongMedicine

Lmao this nigga got robbed
>>
Sentinel went on a rampage today.
>>
Just admit it, you are only in it for the money.
>>
Henlo frens, long time no see, romanon here. How's the situation in your country? We're in lockdown, doing online classes, pure theory and it's fucking with my brain plus the government wants 4th, 5ht and 6th year students to volunteer at triage to help out a bit.

Fuck nurses (especially the ones with a dick)
Fuck premeds
Fuck medical advice
>>
>>12363925
yeah being a patient fucking suuuuuuucks
>>
>friend of a friend has Huntington disease, hypothyroid and Pheochromoblastoma
>one night has hallucinations, run out of the house
>is sent to the hospital by sister
>escapes, runs 5 km but is caught again
>attack the assisting personnel
>brought to hospital
>gets analysis done, while left in the cold
>no food
>in the end he hasn't eaten for over 30 hours, had the same tac done twice and some other analysis I haven't been briefed on yet and they don't find any of the aforementioned conditions
The italian sanitary system is fucked
>>
>>12364536
I entered the field having more noble feelings about it but today it's 100% about the money
>>
>>12350801
When you finally retire.
>>
>>12364536
never
>>
daily reminder that medics arent researchers usually
>>
>>12365628
That's why we have academia you dummy. Also, there are certain specs that beg you to do research.
>>
>>12363450
Sounds like autism. Digestive issues ate definitely common with autism.
>>
>>12350801
>when does life begin bros?
When you have an office hour speciality and work in the private sector.
So in half a decade if you're lucky and hit no speedbumps on the way.
>>
>>12365628
daily reminder that STEM graduates aren't usually researchers
>>
>>12365730
>unironically responding to stemshitter bait
let me guess, you're a student or a premed or something
>>
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>>12365732
>unironically responding to medshitter reverse bait
you must be new here kiddo
>>
>>12365736
FINNBRO! LONG TIME NO SEE HOW YOY DOIN'?
>>
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>>12365739
>mandatory masks are gay
>people have collectively stopped giving a fuck about corona
>patient numbers are nearing pre-pandemic numbers
>the vaccines can't come soon enough
>apu production in full swing, over 100 apustajas now ready
>>
>>12365787
Is this, dare I say, based?
>>
>>12365703
let's hope so
>>
>>12365787
>people have collectively stopped giving a fuck about corona
Could it be because it's a nothingburger to everyone who isn't 85 years old with dementia so advanced they don't even know their own name anymore?
>>
>>12366186
In Mexico it's more serious than that, mainly because 1/3 adults in working age have hypertension. Out of the bunch there's also a strong genetic predisposition for diabetes and obesity that complicates everything.
There's also a major population on unattended/neglected people in south and central america with failed states that legit live in africa-tier conditions.
Unfortunately we live in a globalized world and the ineptitude of one country can hurt another in the whole other side of the globe.
If you really think this is a nothingburger you're either subclinically retarded or a straight retard (aka american).
>>
>>12366186
Yes?
>>
>>12350525
Why yes I’m Mediterranean
>>
>>12365787
As a med student it feels overhyped.
>>
>>12366384
Then you're pretty fucking dumb, as a student ofc.
>>
Can stress and anxiety cause body pain that lasts for months?
>>
>>12366389
Chronic stress is usually correlated with fatigue, not pain.
>>
>>12366385
corona is pretty overhyped though
>>
>>12365103
you're such a little shit
grow up
>>
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will sleeping like this make the blood go to my head and thus kill me?
does it have any benefits?
>>
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>>12350700
General practice
>>
>>12358870
sounds like anaemia. possibly something worse, like leukaemia
>>
>>12367352
Source needed.
>>
>>12367562
And you're a pussyhole. Now fuck off.
>>
>>12367352
>overhyped
>people get infected every single day

Not sure if it's bait at this point.
>>
>>12350555
Shut your whore mouth.
>>
>>12354626
It was fun going to slums and asking parents for permission to scotch tape their kids for samples.
>>
can someone redpill me on what the fuck's going on in the US about PA, NP and their titles? Do they have such a large inferiority complex that they want to take the short route and offer suboptimal patient care? I've seen something about NPs that want to change their names to Cathopathic (kek) Physicians. Yes, PHYSICIANS. Fucking cope, nurse niggers.
>>
>>12369142
The main reason behind the very large MD and DO salaries in the US (namely market economics of AMA restricting the number of residences to create a low supply of drs, therefore, driving up rates they can demand) has finally come home to roost as the same capitalist logic has driven policy changes to allow NPs and PAs to act up, therefore, lowering costs to the health care providers employing providers.

MD and DO are now seething and croaking about MUH PATIENT CARE as if that's what they care about and not their massive pay packets. Any argument they make will be demolished by the demand for increasing profits.
>>
>>12369215
Let me understand this properly. So, NPs and PAs were created to address the physician shortages IN RURAL AREAS but most of them don't want to work there or under the supervision of a physician, yet when they fuck up, they blame it on the doctor.

I understand that giving them the right to practice independently is unfair to the people that completed medical school and residency, but what's up with the creep? Why do NPs and PAs push it so hard to practice independently when they have only a fraction of knowledge of a physician? Also, considering the lower cost of a NP or PA, doesn't that make the profit go down? Or does it mean it's more accessible than a physician and more people will seek a NP/PA?

I'm confused.
>>
>>12369238
Never think this is about what is best for the patients' health, it is purely about money.


>yet when they fuck up, they blame it on the doctor
Would you not do the same if you were a retarded NP? They are acting to get the best of both worlds, both freedom of practice with none of the risk. Stop thinking that anyone will act on behalf of the patient or some concept of justice/fairness/ethics etc.
>unfair to the people that completed medical school and residency
No one cares about fairness this is about money
>they have only a fraction of knowledge of a physician
Who cares? Health care businesses can employ 3 NPs for the cost of 1 MD which equals 3x the product (billable notes/hours/investigations) for the same cost therefore increasing profits.

This is the end result of your goal being profit rather than patient health. None of the big health lobbyists or politicians that have pushed through these policies gives a fuck about what is best for the patient.

Profit=Revenue-Costs Using NPs and PAs lowers costs and reduces the demand for MD and DOs so the salaries they can demand decrease.
>>
>>12369275
Got it now, thanks for the explanation. Never thought of it in that way, I really thought it was about patient care and not about money. US is more fucked up than I thought.
>>
>>12369275
Whats an NP and a PA.
>>
>>12369349
Not him. NP is Nurse Practitioner and PA is Physician Assistant. I don't want to explain which one is doing what, you can google it and see for yourself.

My country doesn't have that shit, at least and I assume yours too?
>>
>>12369359
Just the acronyms is what I needed.
>>
>>12350700
>Family Medicine
>>
I have an autistic question, what is surgery? How do you define that branch of medicine?
>>
>>12369517
>Surgery is a medical specialty that uses operative manual and instrumental techniques on a person to investigate or treat a pathological condition such as a disease or injury, to help improve bodily function or appearance or to repair unwanted ruptured areas.

Literally googled it.
>>
>>12369520
Yeah, and the definition is shit.
>>
>>12369522
You definitely are autistic. What are you looking for then? That's the definition, brief and comprehensive.
>>
>>12369522
>Surgery, branch of medicine that is concerned with the treatment of injuries, diseases, and other disorders by manual and instrumental means. Surgery involves the management of acute injuries and illnesses as differentiated from chronic, slowly progressing diseases, except when patients with the latter type of disease must be operated upon.

Here's another one, literally the same but in more words.
>>
>>12369529
>>12369534
I think I am autistic just ignore me. I have to actually think about why I am sperging out about the definition in the first place. I think the current definition is just too vague and long, it should be shorter and more precise,

When a dermatologist removes a mole for biopsy, when you stitch a wound, or when you just add a band-aid to a wound, is that considered surgery?
>>
>>12369549
Read this part again

>Surgery involves the management of ACUTE injuries and illnesses as differentiated from chronic, slowly progressing diseases, except when patients with the latter type of disease must be operated upon.

A biopsy is, stitching is, band aid surely not as there is no instrumentation.
>>
>>12369553
But that definition basically excludes plastic surgery. Also, diagnostic surgery is also excluded by the definition?
>>
Is there anything like full body iontophoresis where you can shock your entire body?
t. full body hyperhidrosis
>>
>>12369560
Biopsy is also diagnostic, of course it includes them too by the first definition. The second one is more "treatment" related.
>>
>>12368993
>people get sick everyday tb will kill way more people than yo stupid rona faggot
>>
>>12370084
Billions of people have tb infection.
>>
>>12370084
God, tell that to your ID professor, I guarantee you'll drop out.
>>
When will there be a cure for chronic pain?
>>
>>12370306
It's called quitbeingabitchina. You should try some.
>>12370084
Evidence grade for retarded opinion posted by a functional illiterate layman: E
>>
>>12361954
kill yourself
>>
>>12368993
Eh, remember the chinese lockdowns? People dying in the streets, police dragging people to quarantine etc.
>>
>>12371103
Yeah but most of us are not living there. It's hard to handle a country with such an immense population and I'm not even sure their numbers are real.
>>
After reading this article: https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4298

I have to say this is exactly my boring experience of my 4th and 5th years of med school here in the UK. All we do is observe and have no specific role in the team, maybe more responsibility is a good thing for training.

I only have experience with the UK medical school system.

Do final year/senior medical students get clinical responsibilities in your country? Are you actually part of the team? Would patient care suffer if you didn't turn up? What are your opinions on this?
>>
>>12371298
>Do final year/senior medical students get clinical responsibilities in your country?
no
we do get tasks to do, but no actual responsibility
>Are you actually part of the team?
often yes, but it's mostly for our own learning
>Would patient care suffer if you didn't turn up?
sometimes yes
>What are your opinions on this?
there's just so much shit to learn that i don't see another way
here we get a postgrad year where we work as full fledged MD's but it's still under some supervision. I think that addresses your article

the thing is nowadays the healthcare system is very well regulated and extremely patient whipped, so doctors are a bit concerned to assign tasks to students since it's the doctor that carries the responsibility in the end anyways

i can definitely identify with your feelings though
>>
>>12350525
Can MDs go into just research?
>>
>>12370117
Thats a horrible thing to say
>>
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Premed chad here. Im an perfect applicant AMA. Also nurses are vagrant whores with no virtues. Debate me, you won't because you all know it's true.
>>
>>12372020
AMA? As in "ask me anything"? Do you honestly want me to ask you any kind of question regarding any kind of topic?
>>
>>12372042
My GPA is higher than your GPA
>>
>>12351626
Nowhere, because the government forces you to deal with the trash
>>
>>12358870
Lupus
>>
Anyone else’s hospital swarmed with covid? Running out of beds and the residents are hitting acgme cap every day.
>>
>>12372291
Irrelevant. Please tell me about your syllabus so I can mentally rape you and return your ass to the trash from hence it escaped.
>>
>>12371399
Of course

>>12371431
Fuck off

>>12372020
>premed
>chad
dummy but based for fucking nurses

>>12372321
All of the hospitals are filled to the brim here. Yesterday read a news article that stated 600 people are waiting for a spot to open up so the govt sent them all over the country for admission and treatment.
>>
>>12351626
Never anywhere dude, if you're in the hospital you're with anything and everything. Especially for us RN's dude, we wipe crackheads asses in the ICU
>>
>>12354502
Keep doing things and eventually it becomes normal, you won't even notice the pressure
>>
>>12366384
Do you work in a hospital? If not your opinion really doesn't matter on the subject
>>
>>12372321
Yes, Ft. Worth here, it's pretty bad again we are basically at peak numbers again
>>
>>12372653
>>12372651
>>12372618
but corona is a NoThInGbUrGeR
>>
>>12371298
Here you can work outside of primary care positions after the 4th year and everywhere after the 5th year (MD is six years). I find it to be very valuable, we have a lot of people who go abroad to study medicine and come back, and their clinical skills tend to be a lot worse as they have very little clinical experience compared to native grads.
>>
>>12372321
No, we have 10x the daily infections compared to the spring but around one tenth of the patients in the spring (which was around 30% of our max capacity).
>>
>>12373183
It is, elderly lives are not worth over million a pop.
>>
Is it really healthy to sleep on a hard surface? Won't it fuck up my back if I start sleeping on a yoga mat or a futon?
>>
>>12373466
>imagine waking up and posting retarded opinions as first thing in the morning
Rangeban american "doctors" (pharmadogs).
>>
>>12373466
I'd say that you should take your haloperidol but a cyanide pill might just do the trick.
>>
>>12367562
Tell me how I know you are a woman.
>>
>>12354896
>tfw suicidal ex junkie turned md

Nobody else here finds this extremely impressive? Insane drive.
Addiction is very hard to fight, most people quickly find themselves on the wrong side of a coffin lid, but here you are, working hard to make something of yourself.

>i try to talk to people and colleagues but am just a toxic person i think, not that i say anything weird or offensive, i just get nervous and start spouting trivia that bores people and makes me look like an ass hole
No easy fix for being a sperg, trust me on that one. Keep cautiously trying to put yourself out there, get some practice.

>>12359387
>Lastly, I think you would benefit from regular sessions with a therapist.
>i was thinking of making an appointment
I agree with this, and that you should also try to build up a healthy routine to keep yourself from straying, and help deal with the stress from school.
I have a great friend who I've known since he was in his second or third year of medschool almost a decade ago, and I know how grueling the workload can get.
You must still make an effort to take care of yourself - work out regularly (or just jog, to start), cook some nice meals for yourself whenever you can, and try to enjoy nature and the simpler pleasures of life if you're not too busy prepping for exams.
Don't be embarrassed to go see a movie or eat at a nice restaurant by yourself every now and then!

>all i ever wanted was to have a gf/wife that's also a doctor so we could share the experience and be able to talk things through and discuss stuff and help each other
medschool won't be easy, but it'll be worth it - most doctors I know (quite a few) are married to other doctors because few other people can understand what the career (more like lifestyle) is like, and I don't see why you wouldn't be able to find someone :)
>>
>>12373688
tl;dr anon is based for dropping out of hobo route and got his md.

Now go back to plebbit with your shit posts.
>>
>>12373735
>>12373735
If there's anyone that should go back there it's you, you fucking mong.
You could have just ignored my post, but instead decided to post a retarded snarky reply? For what purpose? How does this help the other anon, or yourself?
You could argue my shit was off-topic, but yours?
Disgusting rat, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>
>>12373758
The way you shit your pants on a forum just screams you come from plebbit, especially the fragile ego gave it away. Twat.
>>
>>12373601
Not a mutt bub.
>>
>>12373672
Did rona kill your fat grandmother or why are you so sore about this?
>>
>>12373788
You know, if your original post was meant to admonish me for derailing the thread, you should have kept your stupid mouth shut because at this point, aren't you being worse than me?
I don't understand this fascination some retards have with accusing everyone they disagree with of being from redd.it.

Your tone was that of a fucking mong, so I checked it. I'm going away now, feel free to keep replying.
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>>12373874
No, but keep projecting, pussy. You're getting angry, take a break.

>>12373899
Here's your (You), beggar.
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>>12373954
>>12373899
Both of you have small cock syndrome.
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>>12373974
Yes, I'm a dicklet.
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>>12373995
iktf
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Anki has changed my med school life. First year was a fucking chore. Second year was awesome and 3rd year is even better. G*d bless the man behind Zanki, Anking, and all the other decks.
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>>12374080
Simon Ben-Shekelstein, IM aspirant.
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>>12374080
Good for you, dude. Make sure you don't overuse it.
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How to memorise a large amount of stuff anons? ( like anatomy )
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>>12374156
Literally
>>12374080
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>>12374163
I tried it but it didn't worked for me to be honest.
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>>12374173
Yeah, anki doesn't work for everyone, including me. I have photographic memory, idk, use an online 3D atlas and make connections with your notes/textbook. It's been a while since I've studied it, i feel like a boomer
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How much is a human life last time i checked it was around 60k per year
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>>12373954
lmao you're a faggot
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What's the most based speciality? Additionally, what are the most comfy ones?
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Will chronic pain be cured in 2030?
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>>12372332
Imagine the hardest thing you've ever done and multiply it by at least 2. You couldn't keep up... My university is the HARDEST kid! The tutors here make more than your """""profs"""" haha. Good try nice bait, did you get it at the toilet store?
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>>12372618
What speciality is the best one for being chad and yelling at stupid nurses? They should be replaced with literally a blood pressure cuff on wheels and robots that deliver meds. RNs need to go back to their 20 week course in bed making, they got too cocky with their "degree". Also what is up with these nurses with a PhD in NURSING? HAHAHAHA imagine a nurse introducing herself as a "doctor" hahah I'd fist fight her with both hands
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>>12374604
well they can do ACLS and as a pharmacist i respect that
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You medfags are embarrassing. I just spent the weekend in the hospital due to accidental exposure to large amounts of iron pentacarbonyl and none of the doctors even knew what chemical I was talking about, or what to do about it. They were fucking googling the SDS right in front of my eyes and wouldn't listen to what I had to say. I could have fucking died.

Please study more.
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>>12374709
>iron pentacarbonyl
thats like chemistry dude
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>>12374709
you have no idea how much shit we *need* to know
the volume is literally inhuman and it gets bigger and bigger
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>>12374599
Small dick complex wrote this.
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>>12374932
>>12374932
>>12374932
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>>12374631
Have you been to an ACLS course? Nursoids don't know what a supraglottic airway is, and non airway specialities try sinking igels and KING LTs with a laryngoscope. Nice undergrad btw, but you're still just an undergrad like the nurses LOL



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