Talk about something you get autistic over in photography.I'll start.I've followed this advice since the start of time, if I am to shoot handheld and there's not enough light, and my camera has let's say a 50mm lens on. My lowest acceptable shutter speed should be 1/50s. In practice if I hold very very steady I can maybe go to 1/30s and still get an acceptable image.Now. If on crop sensors, because of the crop factor, a 33mm lens is equivalent to a 50mm while letting me shoot with a 1/30s all the while getting a good image would mean technically that it is better at low light photography, excluding noise and desired photo characteristics.But... Larger sensors have less noise, which sort of balances the need for a theoretically higher acceptable shutter speed. But to what extent?Also, if a camera has sensor stabilization, how far can I push my acceptable shutter speed below the normal acceptable speed? 1 stop? 2 stops?Looking at the tiny amount of data regarding this online (maybe because most photographers are not this autistic), I'm starting to think that a newer, less noisy, image stabilized APS-C camera might reign supreme in terms of low light handheld shooting.[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeSONYCamera ModelILCE-7M2Camera SoftwareRawTherapee 5.9Maximum Lens Aperturef/1.0Focal Length (35mm Equiv)0 mmImage-Specific Properties:Image Width4016Image Height4016Compression SchemeUncompressedPixel CompositionRGBImage OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution300 dpiVertical Resolution300 dpiImage Data ArrangementChunky FormatImage Created2022:04:19 15:56:26Exposure Time1/1000 secF-Numberf/0.0Exposure ProgramAperture PriorityISO Speed Rating200Brightness3.7 EVExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternLight SourceCloudy WeatherFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length0.00 mmRenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandardContrastNormalSaturationNormalSharpnessNormal
>>4103719If you want more depth on the scene then smaller sensor will be better and faster on shutter than larger ones, the other way around, it'll be worse.Say you take 33mm f1.8 on apsc, and 50mm f1.8 on ff to the woods with you. When you're shooting both lenses at f1.8, ff will have light advantage. But you can shoot 33mm at f2.8 to f5.6 to get required depth of field for a scenery shot, you'll need to go to f8 - f11 for the same scene on ff, and even smaller on gfx and larger formats. That's already tripod territory.
>>4103727>When you're shooting both lenses at f1.8, ff will have light advantageAssuming same or close sensor technology. Ten year old ff vs 42mp apsc, then that advantage is gone, arguably lost.
>>4103727The image plane is getting the same amount of light per area.
>>4103727or just keep shutter speed the same, raise ISO to compensate, and then you end up about the same (or still better) in the end
>he can't shoot at 1/8sI've gotten good results at 1s even, with a full frame camera. I think a crop sensor camera with IBIS would let you shoot slower than a second since a smaller sensor has less inertia and be given more roomThank you based IBIS for helping me keep my dogs giant nose in focus[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeRICOH IMAGING COMPANY, LTD.Camera ModelPENTAX K-1Camera SoftwarePENTAX K-1 Ver. 2.00PhotographerJoe MammahSensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaFocal Length (35mm Equiv)70 mmImage-Specific Properties:Image Width1500Image Height1000Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution300 dpiVertical Resolution300 dpiImage Created2022:11:22 02:28:30Exposure Time1/8 secF-Numberf/4.0Exposure ProgramNot DefinedISO Speed Rating1600Exposure Bias0 EVMetering ModePatternFlashNo Flash, CompulsoryFocal Length70.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBImage Width4224Image Height2816RenderingNormalExposure ModeAutoWhite BalanceAutoScene Capture TypeStandardContrastNormalSaturationNormalSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeClose View
>>4103719>Also, if a camera has sensor stabilization, how far can I push my acceptable shutter speed below the normal acceptable speed? 1 stop? 2 stops?With the R5 or with the latest Micro Four Thirds flagship cameras (E-M1X, E-M1 Mark III, OM-1, GH6), 7.5 to 8 stops, using supported lenses.
>>4103719first of all, pic related is very useful.>Now. If on crop sensors, because of the crop factor, a 33mm lens is equivalent to a 50mm while letting me shoot with a 1/30s ...That's wrong though.You still "have to" shoot 1/50 because it's the same FoV. The "native" focal length doesn't matter here since more zoom = more shake, that's the entire formula. More zoom = more shake. No numbers needed. Same amount of zoom, same amount of shake.>But... Larger sensors have less noise, which sort of balances the need for a theoretically higher acceptable shutter speed. But to what extent?Yes larger sensors have less noise in the image (because the noise is more dispersed across a larger sensor area).So you can indeed go higher ISO instead of using a lower shutter speed (not "higher", longer exposures are not "high speed").>But to what extent?To what extent? Roughly whatever the crop factor is. So usually around two stops of ISO advantage for full frame.>Also, if a camera has sensor stabilization, how far can I push my acceptable shutter speed below the normal acceptable speed? 1 stop? 2 stops?Whatever the manufacturer rated it for and then shave a bit off the top.The GH6 (m4/3) is marketed with 7.5 stops of IBIS so you should safely be able to shoot a 50mm (25mm on M4/3) at around 2.5 seconds hand-held. I would say 7 is more reasonable than 7.5 when you're in a random environment.With wide angle lenses I've shot 4 seconds super clean.The S5 (FF) is rated for 5 stops so reasonably you can expect about 4.5 out of it. On 50mm this means maybe a 1/3 or 1/2.>I'm starting to think that a newer, less noisy, image stabilized APS-C camera might reign supreme in terms of low light handheld shooting.only if you're shooting things that aren't moving. in which case just buy a tripod honestly.I like crop sensors but FF's lower noise is THE advantage in low light and APS-C/M43 will never measure up to its abilities in that realm.
>>4103780forgot to >pic unrelatedThanks for correcting me on the shutter speed for crop sensors, didn't pic up on that. Pic related is quite helpful.
>>4103780So, if full frame has an ISO advantage of about 2 stops and the M43 Lumix GH6 has about 7 stops of ibis, while the S5 has about 4.5 stops of ibis. Doesn't that make them equal in a way? It seems the smaller sensor's Ibis compensate for the iso disadvantage. Technically the S5 and the GH6 should output about the same picture quality, in terms of noise and lower than ideal shutter speeds.
>>4103810Not if you use the low shutter speed for an artistic effect - motion blur without camera shake.
>>4103780that picrelated is old as fuck, ancient even, slr territory, lol! You can shoot 600mm ff lenses with good stabilization up to 1/60, and with crop lenses and ibis you can go even lower at 1000mm+
>>4103841we're all aware of that anon look at the posts directly above urs
Any recommendation for services to print a photo book?I only want to make 1 and in hardcover with glossy paper on the inside.
>>4103719Put it in burst mode and fire off some shots at 1/10. You'll get one that's sharp.