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File: zfc.jpg (247 KB, 1200x948)
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is it just a hipster meme camera? or actually quality?
>>
>>3950480
Is this a dumb thread? Or actually photos?
>>
I would get the z50 personally, its essentially the same internals but you can operate it better with one hand.

Its just cosplaying as an mf, which is a nicer looking camera but I don't shoot to look cool lol
>>
>>3950480
get a fuji x-t1/2/3/4 if you want quality
>>
>>3950512
I'm glad they didn't release this about 3 years ago, I might have bought it instead of my fuji and regretted it. I almost bought the Df. I still might pick one up used. It's sad, my Nikon F and F4 are two of my favorite things, I'd love something like the Df or this Zf if it was actually well executed.
>>
>>3950480
why the fuck would you post a thread for this?
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>>3950480
I like nikon but it's literally just a fuji but worse.
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>>3950488
Wish morons would stop saying this, it's got better tech than the z50.

Zfc has:
1. Better timelapse app.
2. Actually has USB-C
3. Can charge while in operation.
4. I think the autofocus was updated as well, more options.

Those are significant changes that affect people. Is it worth the loss of a grip and nicer feeling, premium buttons on the Z50? Not sure.
>>
>>3950512
I've got Fuji and Zfc and while the Fuji has nicer ergos and build quality, the Zfc RAW files blow the Fuji files away for landscape or detail shots.

Fuji files have nicer portraits though.
>>
>>3950488
Also, the Zfc shutter doesn't max out at 30s like the Z50 does, it goes all the way up to like 15 minutes. Extreme upgrade over the Z50 for some people that don't want to use bulb mode all the time.
>>
It’s a $1000 APS-C mirrorless from a quality manufacturer. Yes it makes good pictures. Buy it and shut up, or just go and shoot with what you already have and quit making threads like this.
>>
>>3950770
> it's got better tech than the z50.
1. Better timelapse app.
2. Actually has USB-C
3. Can charge while in operation.
4. I think the autofocus was updated as well, more options.
>Those are significant changes that affect people.

lol, who are you kidding?
>>
>>3950480
I would go with the z50 but I think this would look good on a shelf or something.
>>
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>>3950793
>It’s a $1000 APS-C mirrorless from a quality manufacturer.

Dude is shilling $1000 APS-C with no lenses from a manufacturer on a verge of bancrupcy...
>>
>>3950797
Being near bankruptcy doesn't mean low quality, it just means the market smokes cock and follows trends rather than good products
>>
>>3950797
>ignoring 50 years of f-mount lenses
bruh

>>3950770
The only one of these that actually matters, #4, is wrong.
>>
>>3950480
It's a meme.
>>
>>3950480
It's a meme camera that represents nothing but wasted opportunity for Nikon.

Fuji has a much better lineup of retro-styled APS-C bodies, with and without IBIS and weather sealing, and lenses to go with it. Whereas Nikon's APS-C lineup is absolutely pitiful. They'll always be playing catch-up to Fuji with this.

Instead they should have targeted people who would have wanted the X-T4 if only it had a full frame sensor. This is the one market segment where Nikon has the edge over Fuji, and one that Fuji is unlikely to explore because of GFX.

>>3950839
There's nothing wrong with the market, Nikon just doesn't know how to play it. They insist on playing segments that they are not competitive in, and completely ignoring segments where they have the competitive edge.

>>3950846
Why use a clunky adapter when you can use a system with all the native lenses you can ever wish for? And if you're going to take the cost and weight penalty of full frame glass, why even bother with APS-C?
>>
>>3950922
Using the same mount for their FF and APS-C lenses was a retarded move anyways. Completely negates the biggest advantage of a smaller sensor; getting compact lenses. Even with lenses designed for crop, the fuckhuge mount still dictates the diameter.
>>
>>3950846
>>ignoring 50 years of f-mount lenses
That’s the only thing that’s been keeping them alive since 2013 or so, lots of people have switched to Canon, but some old dudes have crazy lens collections going back to when they bought an F new.
>>
test
>>
>>3950947
Sorry but this is bullshit. Using the same mount guarantees people's investment in lenses won't be for nothing if they want to grow into the system and step up to a ff camera for whatever reason. That's how it was with DSLR, you bought an APSC camera, got good glass and then if you were to buy a FF you still had lenses that worked with it.

What's retarded is to have a lens mount for each sensor size and expect beginners to buy a FF as their first camera, or force them to buy again all of their lenses in addition to the body itself, which is rather expensive already.
>>
>>3950922
>Fuji is unlikely to explore because of GFX
i unironically think fuji should do a "crop gfx" camera, a full frame mini gfx using g-mount lenses, to dogpile more people onto the system cheaply.
>>
>>3950989
>people's investment in lenses won't be for nothing if they want to grow into the system and step up to a ff camera for whatever reason
and thus proving they have no genuine interest in apsc, and just using it as a cheap funnel to make you buy full frame.
>>
>>3950989
What difference does it make if the mounts are the same when the lenses aren’t really interchangeable?

Crop lenses on full frame are mostly unusable and sometimes even keyed out, and full frame lenses are heavy and expensive, negating all the benefits of crop. If Canon and Nikon wanted you to have an easy upgrade path, they would have made either entry level full frame bodies, or pro level crop lenses. The only place where full frame lenses on crop makes sense is for established 5D shooters “downgrading” to 1D and 7D for whatever reason. But those cameras aren’t even made anymore.
>>
>>3950992
That would be even more pointless than full frame lenses on APS-C, because the lens selection is tiny, expensive, and unlike full frame, there are no third party options. The cost savings of a smaller sensor will be negligible compared to what gets wasted on the glass.

If you need GFX, get a real GFX. If you need full frame, get a Canony.
>>
>>3950922
>There's nothing wrong with the market
There's plenty wrong with the market
>>
>>3950839
All digital-era Nikon ever does is follow trends from 4 years ago. Poorly.
>>
>>3950954
Nikon on the path to becoming Pentax 2.0
>>
>>3950992
Their cheapest medium format camera is going new for $4,000, that’s cheaper than the high end of full frame cameras. Their goal is to squeeze FF from both ends.
>>
>>3950994
>and thus proving they have no genuine interest in apsc, and just using it as a cheap funnel to make you buy full frame.

It is this.The blame goes solely on Sony that started with it. And I'm afraid that Canont is planning the same despite them having a proper apsc mount already. Stupidities of treating customers like they are idiots are killing the market.
>>
>>3950480
It's APS-C.
If you're a retrofag and are okay with not having a FF sensor, get a lolympus or a fuji instead, at least you'll have more than 3.5 lenses to choose from.
>>
File: DSC_1672-03.jpg (3.43 MB, 5568x3712)
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>>3950480
It's a fun little thing with good iq, pretty cool. Though since my only comparison is a nex-6 and pixel 3a, not really a surprise.

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties:
Equipment MakeNIKON CORPORATION
Camera ModelNIKON Z fc
Camera SoftwareSnapseed 2.0
Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color Area
Color Filter Array Pattern1067
Focal Length (35mm Equiv)48 mm
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution300 dpi
Vertical Resolution300 dpi
Image Created2021:10:14 15:47:04
Exposure Time1/30 sec
F-Numberf/5.0
Exposure ProgramManual
ISO Speed Rating1600
Exposure Bias-1/3 EV
Metering ModePattern
Light SourceUnknown
FlashNo Flash
Focal Length32.50 mm
Color Space InformationsRGB
Image Width5568
Image Height3712
RenderingCustom
Exposure ModeManual
White BalanceAuto
Scene Capture TypeStandard
Gain ControlLow Gain Up
ContrastNormal
SaturationNormal
SharpnessNormal
Subject Distance RangeUnknown
>>
>>3951087
Very based, very based.
>>
>>3951223
And both of those are better in the crop niche for different reasons. It's so hard to truly fuck up these days other than overpaying, but the lack of lenses is a serious fuck up.
>>
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>>3951223
I don't understand why nikon cant stop themselves from crippling half their devices with lack of an af motor.

I use a d500 and yea there are only a couple nice dx lenses but i also have tons of cheap old af/tamron/sigma options without shelling out for the (admittedly very nice) fx line

[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]
Camera-Specific Properties:
Equipment MakeNIKON CORPORATION
Camera ModelNIKON D500
Camera SoftwareAdobe Lightroom 4.3 (Windows)
Maximum Lens Aperturef/6.3
Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color Area
Color Filter Array Pattern812
Focal Length (35mm Equiv)750 mm
Image-Specific Properties:
Horizontal Resolution240 dpi
Vertical Resolution240 dpi
Image Created2021:10:14 23:07:56
Exposure Time1/6400 sec
F-Numberf/6.3
Exposure ProgramManual
ISO Speed Rating800
Lens Aperturef/6.3
Exposure Bias0 EV
Metering ModePattern
Light SourceUnknown
FlashNo Flash
Focal Length500.00 mm
Color Space InformationsRGB
RenderingNormal
Exposure ModeManual
White BalanceAuto
Scene Capture TypeStandard
Gain ControlLow Gain Up
ContrastNormal
SaturationNormal
SharpnessNormal
Subject Distance RangeUnknown
>>
>>3950480
I'm a NIKON user with a ton of NIKON glas and currently shooting on a Z6II. And yet - if I wanted a hipster faggy APS-C camera to meme around I'd get a Fuji (XPRO3 in my case).

This is essentially a reskinned Z50. So nah, thanks.
>>
>>3950994
I don't get why APSC still exists. I mean OK legacy lens collections. But why bring this shit sensors size to the Z-line? They could have made a cheap full frame and people would buy it like hot cakes. APSC was a clutch 15 years ago when electronics were too shit for full frame sensors that were remotely affordable. Nowadays it has no use whatsoever. And before you yell "MUH CROP FOR BIRBS" - just get a fucking 50mpx full frame and crop the shit in post.
>>
File: bosspepefinal.png (113 KB, 355x393)
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>>3951394
based FFChad
>>
>>3951395
>just get a fucking 50mpx full frame and crop the shit in post.
You could've said MFTs to also mention cheap video but you did a retard and went the other way around.
>>
>>3951395
The majority of people would rather pay the compact tax for smaller cameras and lenses. That's the bulk of the consumer market still buying cameras. Size queens and bouquet huffers are already catered to and whoever is left have other options.
>>
>>3951395
Pro level APS-C and M4/3 lenses are significantly cheaper and lighter than their FF counterparts. These are pretty good reasons for crop systems to exist.

As an example, here's a graph of the cumulative cost (current prices from Adorama) and weight of a typical trinity setup in M4/3, APS-C and FF, respectively. Constant f/2.8 max aperture, at least 12-200 mm equivalent coverage

>M4/3:
1. Olympus E-M5 Mark III
2. Olympus M.Zuiko ED 12-40 f2.8 PRO
3. Olympus M.Zuiko ED 7-14mm f2.8 PRO
4. Olympus M.Zuiko ED 40-150 f2.8 PRO
Total cost: $4,796
Total weight: 2,090 g

>APS-C:
1. Fujifilm X-T4
2. Fujifilm XF16-55mmF2.8 R LM WR
3. Fujifilm XF8-16mmF2.8 R LM WR
4. Fujifilm XF50-140mmF2.8 R LM OIS WR
Total cost: $6,296
Total weight: 3,062 g

>FF:
1. Sony α7 III
2. Sony FE 24-70mm F2.8 GM
3. Sony FE 12-24mm F2.8 GM
4. Sony FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS
Total cost: $9,792
Total weight: 3,863 g

The problem with Canon, Nikon and Sony is that these lenses and bodies simply don't exist. They need to make a decision, either add a line of entry level FF bodies, or start making pro level crop lenses.
>>
>>3950770
Personally, I think the ergonomics of the Z50 trump all of these benefits.
>>
This camera is very, very weird.
Same internals as Z50, plastic faux silver body, Z system has two slow zooms for DX, but it's still somehow selling.
>>
>>3951551
It's almost like Nikon customers trust them to build it out and not make it another 1.
Or there is a secret rumor that when sigma releases their aps-c standard zoom, they will make a Z version and it will be silver.
I see no other possible explanations to its success.
>>
>>3951541
They never will because marketing 101 says not to compete with yourself. Either way you go, it eats profits. Why go crop if there's an equivalent full frame? Why go PROmeme or crop if there's a perfectly adequate midrange FF? Everyone else has carefully laid out their product lines to avoid this. The only way you will ever see it is the only way you've ever seen it, a gimped shit-class FF stripped of every feature you want [pls buy our flagship in either range instead].
>>
>>3951573
Well, there is one way. Market shrink and austerity measures due to the global economy would lead to the culling and consolidation of products down to core lines in the highest demand. Sony would just drop cameras entirely if they weren't doing well. The other two would be forced to put entire mounts on token support and push lenses for what is really selling.

It's already happening but it's a long game and we won't see the fruits until next year at the earliest.
>>
>>3951541
There are darker zooms for FF, but obviously any advantage of the larger scale will be gone.
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>>3951583
Of and those darker zooms are kind of soft, plenty for 24 MP, but for higher tiers they will not be adequate, so they can't pretend and slap "PRO" naming on them
>>
>>3951573
That's true, people cross-shop APS-C and FF all the time, they're not really different enough to make sense to have within the same company. Panasonic is a lot smarter with M4/3 and FF, and Fuji with APS-C and medium format, less competition between the product lines.

Canon and Sony, and especially Nikon which is doing so poorly, should really consider scrapping their APS-C lines and focus on what they do best. And if they absolutely must waste marketing and R&D money on crop, create a M4/3 line instead. But vendor lock-in is too deeply ingrained in their company culture for that to be considered.

What I was saying is that they should shit or get off the pot, and getting off the pot is probably the most sensible of the two.
>>
>>3951583
The idea was to use the classic trinity lenses as a sort of price index for camera systems.
>>
>>3951632
I see, it's just using f/2.8 across the board is begging for someone to bring up absolute aperture, equivalent fields of view, toneh northcrop, etc.
>>
>>3951573
To be perfectly honest, I'd be willing to pay more for a smaller sensor camera under the right conditions.
Small senor = small lenses.
That's a real world advantage. The one thing that really has to happen, though, is for post processing to become so good that the need for larger sensors is completely eliminated. If FF didn't have better high ISO performance, it would be dead by now. Software like Luminar is on a good way to perfect noise reduction in post, though. Very soon ISO 6400 will be the new ISO 800.
>>
>>3951730
>Software like Luminar is on a good way to perfect noise reduction in post
You have to be a retard to think this
t. Photoshop, Luminar and DXOLab user
Also if ISO becomes that good i think companies should go on making better/thicker CFAs
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>>3951734
>You have to be a retard to think this
you can already reduce ISO noise by one and a half stops in post, so long as you don't shoot at anything higher than 6400. That's what I call a good way.
>>
>>3950483
Dumb thread indeed. OP could've simply googled camera reviews or run a quick YouTube search.
>>3950480
>>
>>3951730
Again, you can get small lenses for FF, but with darker apertures. They will have same depth of field, but force you to use higher ISOs, so that "better high ISO performance" advantage will be gone as well.
>>
File: sensor size.png (97 KB, 412x255)
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>>3951856
And few want that.
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>>3951863
On one hand, of course not, that makes images look like they were taken on mft.
On another hand, darker but smaller lenses have been coming to market a lot lately, someone must be buying them.
>>
>>3952235
You're right except the trends show they also want small, lightweight bodies to go with those lenses. Technical dickwaggling over the raw specs hasn't been a consumer concern in ages. You either eat shit and get a true compact with good video, or eat shit and spend twice as much for 2 stops of noise and a massive brick of a body. Midrange lenses have always been a thing and sell pretty well because they're affordable. Even then, I know that a lot of professionals that aren't strictly photographers in the traditional sense shoot APS-C because of the size and having fast lenses without the loss in depth of field. The market looks more like the old film slr market where size and features override specs for the majority of users.
>>
>>3950772
Wow a firmware upgrade, much worth buying whole new camera
>>
>>3952405
i think he means all the sony, sigma and tamron 2.8 compact primes that were for the a7c. they are affordable, look good on the camera, are small, sharp enough (but not that sharp imo) and are selling very well.
>>
>>3951546
I agree, I had to get the zfc because I depend on the charging while in use, but it absolutely sucks to hold and use. Z50 had a perfect grip and all that.
>>
File: cope.jpg (61 KB, 556x556)
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>>3951730
>Very soon ISO 6400 will be the new ISO 800.
lol, sensorlets keep dreaming
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>>3952676
There's a reason only oldfags know how to shoot these retro cameras, they are handled different and not like a DSLR would.
They are best used at hip level and with your left hand doing almost all the work but surprise, the Zfc has a flipper screen and can't be quite used like that simulating a tilt-up screen being the viewfinder.
>>
>>3952708
Babby MF is better than the real thing even without the hood.
>>
>>3952683
cant shoot birds on mf without hauling around a lens the size of a howitzer
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>>3952741
They'll spread it for a rollei if'n y're proud an gat the wyrd.
>>
>>3952708
I have cameras with no grip and it's fine but the zfc was the only one I had for birding and I just didn't find it comfortable to use compared to the z50 which I no longer have.





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