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How did a startup create the best camera bag against the likes of lowepro and manfrotto?

Only downside i've seen about the bag is you get some lines where the mag latch elastic is

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>>
what?? its a shitty overpriced backpack
>>
Because lowepros and manfrottos enjoyed decades of zero variety available to a niche market before instagram came along.

They look like the free bag you get to carry an xbox in.
>>
>>3838830
It's a fuckin' bag, who cares?
>>
>>3838834
>Because lowepros and manfrottos enjoyed decades of zero variety available to a niche market before instagram came along.

This

they were the canon of the camera market
>>
lowepro is trash, they charge hundreds for a bag that's just a variant of another one they make with a different front and put shitty 2cents mesh on the side that rips from any bottle
>>
PD flipped the industry and now the other bag makers realise they can't get away making garbage
>>
>>3838830
i love my peak designs strap sooo much
>>
>>3838830
ugly as hell, camera bags are dumb as fuck.
The only camera bag you should be seen in public with is that Brevite one because it just looks like a normal bag.
>>
>>3838945
Peak design staps are utter garbo, too big seat belts that smack into the sides of your camera.
>>
>>3838954
Well, I knew Snoys break easily, but this is ridiculous
>>
>>3838830
because they just built a bag they actually wanted not the same bag over and over with a different front
>>
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>>3838830

Peak Design make nice stuff (I love their sling and camera clip) but the bag is shit. I tried it but went back to a Lowepro BP 250 because I just love the slide out camera pouch.

I have 2 peak design clips attached to the camera pouch so I can clip it on to my sling and have easy access for when I need to switch lenses frequently on a shoot.
>>
>>3839651
why not just get their messenger then
>>
>>3838953
yeah I have one and it's a great camera bag. you'd never know. before it I was using a normal backpack with a camera insert but it's so nice to have dedicated slots for photo gear, you don't have to fumble around nearly as much as when you're using an insert.
>>3838830
this bag looks ugly as fuck, I don't get it.
the sling is not bad, I have one.
>>
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Thinking of just getting this fellas, everything else is such a pain if you swap lenses a lot
>>
>>3841364
can recommend, using it since 2010 or so
>>
>>3841369
How is it on longer walks once you've got a body and some lenses in? I stuck to backpacks for a while because I assumed it would be better for that sort of thing but I just hate having to take it on and off constantly
>>
>>3841376
a backpack is way easier on your shoulders obviously, but it's doable. I've had it pretty much fully loaded on single day hiking trips and that works very well, for me it's the multiple full days in a row that won't work without a backpack because your shoulder will kill you on the 4th day or so
>>
>>3841364
>barely keeps its shape
>floppy as fuck
>clips at front you have to keep undoing
>>
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>>3841782
I'd rather it be soft and floppy than a big unwieldy solid brick, I've also found an insert that will help keep its shape a bit better. And it'll still be quicker and more comfortable for me to change a lens with that style bag than a backpack, even with the clips
But if you have any other negative experience with it I'd like to hear since I've not ordered it yet
>>
>>3841782
You never have to do the clips at all. That’s the best thing about it. Those are just there in case it’s really gonna get tossed around—most of the time, it’s enough to just flop the top over and gravity/design keeps it shut.

With other bags, you have to latch them shut all the time because the handle is on the top lid and everything spills out if you pick it up when it isn’t latched. With the donkey, the handle attaches to the body of the bag separately. It’s my favorite thing about it. I don’t remember the last time I actually latched mine closed, but I know it’s been a few years and I use it all the time.
>>
>>3841782
Why are you describing my dick?
>>
>>3841788
>I'd rather it be soft and floppy than a big unwieldy solid brick

>proceeds to reinforce it so it is more solid
>>
oh my god if you want a cheap bag just ebay a dirt fucking cheap unbranded daiper/maternity bag. paying three figures or more for a "le camera" bag is for chumps.
>>
>>3841289

messengers fuck up your back and aren't secured to your body properly anon. Don't do that to yourself.
>>
>>3842104
>messengers fuck up your back and aren't secured to your body properly anon. Don't do that to yourself.
they're fine if you actually get a messenger bag that isn't a fashion icon but made to be used as one, e.g. tenba dnas
>>
>>3842104
messenger bags are fine

you think backpack straps are some magical shit? they're smaller bags so less weight then 1 less strap

What did your chiropractor say after your free consultation lmao
>>
>>3842111

I'm a strength coach anon, I don't need a chiropractor to tell me that pulling your spine to one side isn't good for your posture or long term health.
>>
>>3842115
>pulling spine back with backpack is fine

oh wait that doesn't happen your core helps you hold up the weight

stop overloading your bag

>I'm a strength coach anon

lmao
>>
>>3842099
It's still going to form to my body
>>
>no ykk zippers
>no buy
>>
>>3838830
This is literally the ugliest camera bag ever made.
The urban tacticool shit is just aweful.


>>3841364
Infinitely superior. I have the F-1X Little Bit Bigger.
>>
>>3842115
Lol if you're a strength coach your core should be strong enough to hold the weight of a camera with 0 effects. That is unless you have a weak ass beta body.
>>
>>3841369
>>3842186
Since you both have a domke, how would I go about carrying a tripod with one? I was thinking of getting some webbing and trying to wrap it to the bottom of the bag somehow
>>
>>3842213
When I can be bothered Ill have a look at it and see if its possible
>>
>>3842123
>>3842195

you're both dumb as shit
>>
>losers spend their life posting troll shit
>losers don't make enough money to afford nice stuff
>losers whine about stuff being overpriced
kek i wonder why
>>
>>3842222
this

>there is no way this more expensive item is any better in any way
>>
>>3838830
fuck off shill
>>
>/p/ crying they are shit bags
>waterproof bag + zippers
>rugged ripstop material
>recycled materials
>innovative latch
>choice of colors and sizes
>quality little things like strap mounts and magnets to hold them in place
>similar price to other bags
>lowepro just gives you a garbage bag to put over the bag when it rains
>>
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>>3842216
It arrived, if I don't use the clips (which I don't think I will besides times I want it extra secure) then I can strap my tripod to the bottom like so
Overall pretty happy with it and can't wait to take it out this weekend. I just need the other insert I ordered >>3841788 to arrive now
Also nice that it's small enough to count as a personal item on flights
>>
>>3841376
>How is it on longer walks once you've got a body and some lenses in?
Couple of lenses and a body: Fine
Fully loaded with four lenses and a body with another lens on it: You'll fuck up your back

Or at least that was my personal experience, in my idiot youth where I thought I needed to bring my whole gear collection with me everywhere I go. Now I only break out the Domke (with three lenses max) for when I'm doing a photoshoot at a location and mostly just carry my camera with one lens as my daily carry.
>>
>>3842851
Anything expensive /p/ cries about
>>
>>3838830
Um, aliasing much?
>>
I use an ammo bag I copped at a surplus store more than a decade ago. No inserts or anything, and the latches have fallen off, but it has 3 small compartments plus the main compartment. I don't use a lot of accessories when I'm out shooting and tend to stick to one prime lens so it's fine.

I have a legit camera bag that can fit all my lenses, flashes, spare body, accessories, etc. when I'm shooting a job, but just walking around shooting for myself I take the small ammo bag.
>>
their messenger bag is top tier
>>
>when you've spent 5 weeks now looking at backpacks then messenger bags then back to backpacks then non camera bags then messenger bags again and haven't bought anything
>>
>>3838830
I can't say bad things about Manfrotto honestly, but Lowepro and other brands just look like regular backpacks, at best, or just weirdly shaped softcases.
Peak Design looks pretty solid, but i'm more interested by their leashes and straps than their bags so far.
>>
>>3838954
kek now that's an obvious trolling statement.
>>
I got this one two months ago and love it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1286937-REG/manfrotto_mb_ms_m_gr_street_camera_messenger_bag.html

Doesn't destroy my shoulders or anything, perfect for my Sony A7ii and my sigma lenses.
>>
who cares fucking gearfag
>>
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>>3838954
>smack into the sides of your camera.
Someone (maybe you?) mentioned this in another thread where we were talking about this and I still don't understand what the hell you mean by this.

Your camera hangs FROM the strap. Gravity pulls down on the camera, and then the strap keeps it from falling down. So usually, the strap is taught around whatever body part you wrap the strap around, then the camera is at the bottom of that.

What the hell do you mean that they "smack into the sides of your camera"? Can you maybe draw me a diagram?

Here, I googled an image of a peak design strap in action to demonstrate how camera straps work.
>>
>>3843631
Oh, so the camera is a fashion accessory to you and you never bring it up to your face, got it.
>>
>>3843636
>you never bring it up to your face, got it.
How are you holding your camera? ‘Cause when I do it, my hands naturally land in such a way that they’re covering the sides of the camera body. And even if they weren’t, how would this be different from any other camera strap? And how is your camera body so fragile that getting lightly bumped by a camera strap when you’re holding it would damage it?

Are you grabbing the camera body outside of the strap and then grinding the strap against the sides with your palms? That’s the only configuration that makes sense to me in the context you’re trying to argue.

Pic related, including my stupidest-looking camera because ~fashion~.

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Camera-Specific Properties:
Image-Specific Properties:
Image OrientationBottom, Right-Hand
Horizontal Resolution72 dpi
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Image Height2320
Scene Capture TypeStandard
>>
>>3843661
You're making Pentax look bad.
Go away.
>>
>>3843667
Pentax produced a camera with a yellow-and-pink color scheme and *I'm* the one who's making Pentax look bad?
>>
>>3843671
The K-50 isn't a balding neckbeard hambeast with pictures of microdicks on his wall and dumb straps.
>>
>>3843674
Still waiting for you (or the other guy if you're a different troll?) to explain how you hold your camera such that the straps hit the sides.
>>
>>3843681
Your picture is staged, who the fuck has his strap forwards, resting on his forearm?
>>
>>3843686
So post a picture showing how you hold a camera where the straps would scratch the sides?
>>
>>3843589
>camo inner liner

lmao
>>
>>3843631
Wtf is that thing on buckle? A quick release of sorts for the strap?
...Why?
>>
>>3843661
reminder that this is the person recommending Peak Design products to you
>>
>>3843981
That's their 'anchor links' so you can easily remove the strap or swap to something else like a wrist strap. They're on their 4th revision because they kept breaking and causing people to drop their cameras lmao
>>
>>3844303
I see.
What's the point though? Do people change straps that often? More than once every couple months, if that?
>>
>just bought a PD Cuff
Have I doomed my camera to falling on the ground?
>>
>>3844525
>What's the point though? Do people change straps that often? More than once every couple months, if that?
If you shoot with more than one camera, like I do, it's great. You don't have to have a bunch of different straps attached to your cameras, just those little anchors and you can move the strap from camera to camera depending on what you're in the mood to shoot that day.

E.g., sometimes I wanna shoot Leica. Sometimes I wanna bring out my big DSLR. Sometimes I want to use a little mirrorless. Sometimes I want to shoot with my a big medium format body, and sometimes the medium format I'm in the mood for is an SLR and other times it's a TLR. Sometimes I want to shoot with my infrared-modified DSLR. Sometimes I want to shoot 35mm.

My camera shelf used to be extremely cluttered up with camera straps, and there were definitely a few times I picked the camera I wanted to shoot with that day based on how much slack the strap had in it. Now, I just have a lot of those little anchors, two straps that I move around according to my mood, and the straps can be as long or short as makes sense for what I'm shooting that day.

Just as an example, today I spent my morning and late afternoon shooting Velvia in a 35mm SLR with a digital mirrorless for stuff I didn't want to waste film on but wanted a picture of, but swapped out to my main full frame DSLR for a photoshoot in the middle of it.
>>
>>3844666
Ah fair enough. I guess if you find a strap that you really like (and is expensive) while you have tons of cameras, it makes sense instead of buying the same thing multiple times.
>>
>>3843661
Big Pentax sell signal here
>>
>>3844302
>reminder that this is the person recommending Peak Design products to you
Reminder that the person arguing so strongly against them has never actually even *seen* one in person, much less used one: >>3841293

And maybe hasn't ever even held a camera? Still waiting on him to explain how he holds a camera such that even the worst-designed camera strap would potentially scratch the sides of it.
>>
>>3844701
I could post a picture of all of the cameras mentioned in that post, but then I'd just have to deal with a cavalcade of trolls calling me a gearfag for owning so many different cameras.

So I guess if you want to assume that I'm making it up, that's fine. That seems less tedious.
>>
>>3844706
Cool story
>>
>>3844633
no

they had 1 revision that was rubbing against the camera points and breaking due to thinner rope to get into smaller eyelets on cameras

been fixed years ago and they had a replacement program

>We began making V3 Anchors in August 2017, which featured a thinner cord that could fit directly in smaller camera eyelets. In Spring 2018 we got a few reports (7 total) of V3 Anchors prematurely wearing out and failing. To put things in perspective, we've sold over 1 million V3 Anchors, so the observed failure rate is 7 in 1,000,000 (or 1 in every 17,000 users)

https://support.peakdesign.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000833866-2018-Anchor-Update
>>
>>3844671
Not that guy but what I like is that I can put the anchors on all kinds of stuff. I have 2 on my gear pouch, so when on site I can take it out of my backpack clip it on and carry it as a sling, giving much easier access to lenses.

I have them on my tripod, too. My 2 cameras. My video rig. They're very handy.
>>
>>3844812
>I have 2 on my gear pouch
>I have them on my tripod
Interesting, haven't thought of that.
>>
LMAO

> overpriced made in vietnam bag
> peddled by San Francisco hipsters
> kickstarter begging so zero risk
> form over function dumbass shelf system
> given to shills on jewtube to rave about
> the autists buy it thinking it will make them the next pete mckinnon or w/e
> you just look like a retard turtle
>>
>>3845277

anon McKinnon has his own brand of bags.
>>
>>3845277
>t. a hipster fucked my bitch
>>
>>3845287
>anon McKinnon has his own brand of bags.
that cost more than the equipment people put into it
>>
>>3845277

vs what american made bags that aren't doing just a shitty foam divider
>>
>>3844700
boomers are insufferable but at least they are helpful because they spend money on shit and can provide actual user experience
meanwhile /pee/ tards sit on their asses all day theorycrafting about stuff they never have money for
/p/ is worse than a boomer forum
>>
>>3845709
>just get the sigma it's $300 cheaper
>oh lol yeah it's double the length and 400g heavier but so what
>>
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>>3844700
I'm not any of those guys with whom you are having the arguement but decided to give it a try with 4 cameras (pic related). The straps always hit the sides but my straps are much thinner than yours and I could see if you were sitting down they would fall on the forearms.

Unrelated, I got this lil fanny pack looking peak value pouch from a thrift store and wondered if any anons could tell me what the elastic loops are for? do you use a clip to hook lens pouches there? Sorry for dumb question
>>
>>3846441
> if any anons could tell me what the elastic loops are for?
here are said straps
>>
anyone got a handheld bag they like that's good at keeping the rain out?
>>
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>>3846444
he doesn't know
>>
>>3846471
>handheld bag
What, like a purse?
>>
>>3846487
sure!
>>
>>3846485
>>3846444
oh snap one of my camera straps has em also!
what they do?
>>
>>3846501
Looks like molle
>>
>>3846444
>>3846501
The idea is that those were where you'd stick your spare rolls of 35mm film back in the long long ago.
>>
>>3846513
lolno
>>
>>3838830
I'm sure it's nice but I have like three Think Tank bags of varying size and configuration that meet my needs and I rather doubt I'll live longer than they do.
>>
>>3846513
Lek like a bandolier of shotgun ammunition?
>>
>>3846530
my body is ready
>>
>>3846515
Certainly possible I'm wrong. That's just what I've seen them used for, and they're exactly the right size to hold a 35mm canister.

What are they for?
>>
>>3845277
>> you just look like a retard turtle
lmao fucking spot on
>>
>>3845287
These keep going up for sale on classifieds forums and I find it so cringeworthy. Can you imagine buying a fucking Peter McKinnon branded item, and then realizing it's fucking shit and having to deal with the shame of listing it publicly for sale, showing everybody that you watch him and respected him enough to buy a product that put his branding on it, as if that adds value? Cringe.
>>
why the fuck doesn't their messenger back have a water bottle holder
>>
>>3848612
the internal height can fit like 32oz water bottles vertically
>>
>>3843981
the nice thing about Peak Designs stuff is that you can attach it to multiple cameras that you own thanks to these. Instead of having one different strap per camera, you can use the same one.
>>
>>3848850
You can do this with DSPTCH strap without having a fucking seatbelt and obnoxiously red circular autism connectors attached to your camera.
>>
>>3838839
spergs do, deeply
>>
>>3849625
>You can do this with DSPTCH strap
Those look fine too.

>without having a fucking seatbelt and obnoxiously red circular autism connectors attached to your camera.
What the hell is your beef with peak design? Did Peter Dering, CEO and founder of Peak Design, fuck your girlfriend or something?

Why have you chosen this as your particular hill to die on? Jesus Christ, anon, it's just a fucking camera strap. I think it's a strap that works really well and is more comfortable than any other strap I've used. I seriously can't understand why you have so much vitriol against it.

Like, "autism connectors"? What the hell is that? You're over here screaming and running in a circle because there's a little red ring around the connector (which, for the record, you mostly can't even see when it's clipped into the strap) and you're saying *I'm* the autistic one because of the camera strap I'm using?
>>
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>>3849666
>and you're saying *I'm* the autistic one because of the camera strap I'm using?
yes.
>>
>>3849834
Good comeback, bro. You really shut me down.
>>
no other bag compares to PD shit

keep coming back to their gear, gonna get the totepack next
>>
>>3838830
Their bags are not my cup of tea but I can respect what they are doing than, say, traditional accessories makers. Personally their straps system is more interesting. I have 2 sets of them
>>
I just use a normal rucksack with a large towel in it. Just put my camera and lenses sort of wrapped in the folds of the towel. Can any anons relate? It's a D750, usually with 28-70 2.8 attached and then primes of my choice. Mostly it's been the 105 and then a 35.
>Inb4 muh overlapping focal lengths
I don't care. Sometimes it's nice to just put the 35 on and go snapshitting.
>>
Eh the $89 Lowepro that has a top and bottom compartment along with quick side camera access plus a tripod holder is the most practical. The top part is it's own section so you can put snacks, a hoodie, filter case, etc up there away from camera stuff. And the bottom fits 3 lenses and the camera and has the fast side camera access. That flap on the outside can also buckle in a hoodie or can also hold your tripod horizontally and use the tripod side pocket as a cupholder instead. I've tried a bunch of backpacks but this is the best. It's UGLY but I don't care about that anymore.
>>
>>3851902
Is that you Ken?
>>
thoughts on ONA messengers?
>>
>>3853228
Pretty bags
>>
>>3853228
My first thought upon reading this was "The ONA makes bags now?".
>>
>>3854007
fucking coomer
>>
>>3854009
>oh yea show me them sinister tiddies
>hnng gurl you got star game
wut?
>>
The one you have with you
You manchildren will argus anything
LGTSS camera strap vs no strap. Ready, FIGHT!
>>
>>3854043
I don't trust my hands enough to not use a strap.
>>
>>3854044
How about quick release?
>>
I had a dream last night that one of my Peak Design strap anchors failed and I almost dropped my camera and the worst part was that I’d have to come here and admit that.

It didn’t happen in real life, though; my straps have always been entirely solid.

Anyway, I’m going to go kill myself now, since 4chan is now showing up in my dreams.
>>
>>3854045
I don't know.
Never used a quick release system.
I'm not sure what I'd need one for.
>>
>>3854066
>not posting on Dreamchan on the regular
>>
anyone got messenger bag recommendations that don't look like a potato sack?

would just get the PD one but it's awfully stiff with nothing in it (same size)
>>
>>3854068
You can use it to securely carry your camera without a cumbersome strap
Mount at the hip or your shoulder
>>
>>3854120
That does sound convenient.
>>
>>3854122
When you see the price and realise that you look like a delta force reject when you wear it you will realise it's not.
>>
>>3854071
I have the PD one, it is stiff but isn't that a good thing? It's not like an airplane carry bag stiff, it's soft enough that it's still a bit maleable, but also protects your stuff.
>>
>>3838830
>How did a startup create the best camera bag against the likes of lowepro and manfrotto?
Youtubers
>>
>>3854128
I wouldn't mind looking silly but if it's got a high price tag it's definitely not for me.
My camera came with a neck strap and it works just fine.
>>
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I bought this about 6-7 years ago. It still works and its comfotable.
>>
id' buy if they used YKK zips
>>
>>3839651
>thief slides out your whole kit
Feels unsafe, but I like the look of that one.
>>
>>3846501
Cables
>>
>>3854628
love this backpack.. also bought it 6-7 years ago. still good
>>
>>3855625
>he fell for the zipper meme
>>
>>3843667
If you care about appearances you aren't a photographer.
>>
I'm still on Crumpler. Legacy shit, boys.
>>
>>3856674
Wrong.
>>
>>3856674
>i care about how my photos look but not how i look physically
>>
>>3856674
The odor anon emits must be staggering.
>>
PD bags are expensive as fuck in Australia but even lowepro now does the same for models pushing $450+ for 350AW versions
>>
>>3856674
you're posting on a board full of fuji owners, the only thing they care about are appearances
>>
>>3856715
sorry girls don't like your 5Dinosaur from eBay, buddy. Thinking about you a lot.
>>
>when you bought a totepack just because of Mariah

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f7OWVGNQ4
>>
>>3856675
>Crumpler
Like 2006 up in here.
>>
>>3856727
>5Dinosaur
quietchuckle.dng
>>
>>3846516
I scrolled through this thread specifically looking for a mention of Think Tank, glad at least one anon knows what's up. I've got five of their bags and a belt pouch setup, they're hands down the best camera bag company out there and the only one that's actually designed by real working photographers who know what the fuck they're doing.

Oddly my second favorite bag company is Vanquest, a tactical gear company rather than one that even specializes in camera bags, but somehow they understand what works better than any of the big camera bag makers.

>>3856675
I own one from around '09 and hate it. Bought it for a travel gig and quickly discovered how horribly designed it was, for some ungodly reason they put the strap mounts way near the back side of the bag so when you put a full load in it it hangs crooked and is super uncomfortable as you walk around, and I have no fucking clue what they were thinking when they decided not to put a back pocket on the thing, I guess they've somehow never been in a situation where they needed to stash paperwork or notebooks or anything in their camera bags.
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>>3857894
>the only one that's actually designed by real working photographers who know what the fuck they're doing.

lol muh velcro

https://youtu.be/g4WarjPP9Fo?t=793

yeah V2 really well thought out bag lmao
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>>3857897
Damn that kinda sucks, most of my TTP bags are older so maybe they've started to go downhill. I have two of the Retrospective bags but they're the original versions and don't even have that zipper pocket. Personally I'd probably just leave the pocket unzipped and tuck the flaps inside of it but I agree that it's a kinda stupid oversight, still nowhere near as bad as the shit you find in Lowepro or Tamrac bags or whatever though.
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My dad carried his Ricoh K5 Super in this Sakar bag all the time.

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>>3858561
>plastic buckles

lol sorry but it screams poor
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PD stuff are great.
The backpack, the sling, the clip, the strap.
The keys is in the little details that add up to a bunch of convenience
>overpriced
lol whatever, they're not ridiculously expensive like leica linhof stuff, get a job losers
>/p/ hates it
lol figures, this place hates anything successful, not to mention PD is reddit's favorite so it's a given /p/ must play the contrarian
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why is finding the perfect bag so hard

at this stage i'm looking at just getting 2 bags
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>>3859524
Because bags are for fags.

Get a hard case and be done with it. If you don't want to go pelican, harbor freight has a perfectly acceptable substitute.
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>>3842102
>three figures

You’re the chump
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>>3859524
messenger + totepack is the best combo
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>>3859524
12 bags and you cycle monthly is a good compromise
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>>3859524
take the domke pill
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>>3854007
kek, it must be nice to have a coombag with a hole at the bottom, best for long commutes and cuddles
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>>3859814
>domke
possibly the most disgusting bags
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>>3859524
There's a reason most serious/pro photogs end up with tons of bags. I've got half a dozen in common rotation myself
>Small and medium general purpose shoulder bags (Think Tank Retrospectives)
>Small Artisan & Artist for when I want to carry my mirrorless around and look /fa/
>Large Think Tank shoulder bag with 15" laptop compartment for everyday work use (I used to be the media manager at an automotive aftermarket company so I had to take photos onsite daily)
>Vanquest sling bag for all day outdoor events where I still need easy access to gear
>(Not shown) Think Tank Shapeshifter backpack for travel with gear + random essentials (windbreaker, water, etc.)
As well as a whole bunch of bags I didn't like or don't use much anymore, like one of the big Think Tank Airport series backpacks that I used when I was carting around two pro bodies and a full suite of lenses for motorsports events, and a TTP modular belt rig that I'd actually carry all my gear around those events in.

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>>3861593
You're a gearfag
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>>3861599
not him but the tax deductions alone make it worth it
>>
Someone hasnt heard of Kata bags
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they need to refresh their bags already
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>>3861593
You really live like that brah?





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