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https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-when-your-photograph-harms-me-20201019-ow44eoe4prdkjag3j6yuraxpvy-story.html

Woman claims someone taking pictures of her in a public place is rape and should be illegal. What does /p/ think?
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>>3761861
She should be screaming at the traffic cams, security cams, google cars, dashcams, backup cams, everyone with a phonecam as well. And satellites, 'cause Space Perverts are downblousinh her.
>crazy... don't stick your dick in it.
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>>3761861
>What does /p/ think?
I think she may well end up getting enough of a SJW/professional victim mob to outlaw photography after making some politicians panic about it.
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>>3761861
>grabs a photog and holds him in place for 40 minutes until a cop shows up
Yup I’ll add that to the list of things that never happened.

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>>3761863
I made it a point a few years back to go surveil the surveillance and took photos of a bunch of federal buildings and cameras. It took about four minutes for some breathless federal worker to come storming out and lecture me about how it was illegal to take photos of a federal building. I had a print out of the email that was internally circulated by the DHS that expressly said that citizens were allowed to take photos of federal property, and then pointed out that she was being an unamerican hypocrite if she consented to federal surveillance of private citizens but objected to the reverse. She huffed and puffed and walked back inside.

It's insane how little people realize that they are under constant scrutiny every fucking day from every angle.

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>>3761871
Lol I got the same reaction for taking this over the weekend

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>>3761869
If she were on 57th street, there was likely already a cop on that block. The police are omnipresent in midtown.

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>>3761874
The article unironically says it took 40 minutes for a cop to show up anon. She’s a larper.

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>>3761873
From a cop? Or a desk jockey?

Cops in my experience know the law and almost never seem to give a fuck. In fact, it's highly suspicious that the chick in OP is telling the truth that in TWO separate circumstances, in NEW FUCKING YORK of all places, the cops compelled a photographer to destroy or delete photos. There's just no way.

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>>3761877
Desk jockey! And yeah I can tell you she’s full of shit. The whole things a massive larp. People constantly ask me if I took their picture, and I’ve got like 3 ways to get out of it ready to go, I doubt the heroine of the story is who she makes herself out to be.
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>>3761874
>15mm for street
Incredibly based
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>>3761880
It's always the desk jockeys and the bored-out-of-their-minds private security who have something to say. The only thing worse than a cop is a wannabe fake cop. Fuck 'em.

I don't even bother with "3 ways to get out of it". I either ignore someone, smile at them, or say "sure! wanna see it?"

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>>3761883
“Yeah, you gonna arrest me for it?” Unless you’re an actual cop you can fuck right off.
You’re nicer than me, I either ignore them, act offended and ask them why would I want a picture of them or if they look interesting I ask them if they want me to take their pic. Most people don’t notice, don’t care, don’t say anything, or start posing when they see me point a camera at them.

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>>3761871
based
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>>3761881
lol thanks. alongside the D800 it's a huge setup. Not exactly stealthy street photography, and half the time they look right at the camera, but fuck'em. it's good for your backbone.

>>3761886
I never have people posing, but then I've usually got my serious scowl going on. It's pretty irrelevant, this whole issue was settled (at least in New York) in Nussenzweig Vs. DiCorcia.

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>>3761861
It will be illegal eventually with the great reset. Remember the laws in Europe and having to comply with those on many sites about photos with people in them and permission being able to be retroactively withdrawn and having to remove every trace etc
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>>3761868
landscape Chads don't care
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>>3761876
40 minutes could be considered felonious restraint. Especially if a cop witnesses it.
>Your Honor, it was a living hell & I feared for my life. She kept trying to sell me drugs, too. And then she didn't even have any!!
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>>3761890
>D800 with a massive fuck-you lens
That’s great. I cover my camera with thin strips of gaff tape then pick at the edges so it frays a bunch and looks incredibly cheap when I’m shooting street.
And as for posing I’ve only ever had one guy say yes, and it was this homeless dude who I guess just wanted his picture taken. Shit just snapping the pic I want then walking away works almost every single time. I’m also 6 feet tall and dress like I’m homeless when I’m doing street so that definitely helps too. I’ve been thinking about making a fake press pass and putting it in a belt loop, then telling people I’m shouting a story for vice.
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>>3761894
Yeah the whole thing reeks of bullshit.
>>3761896
Meant to add this but even if legality was an issue I’d still do it, I’d just be using cheaper gear I don’t mind have confiscated. Smaller memory cards too so if they take my camera I still have other shit I shot during the day.
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>>3761861
>pictures of her in a public place is rape
Okay, let's say it IS rape.

...so what? Women exist solely to serve as mens' cum toilets. Everyone knows this.
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>>3761902
Huh didn’t really tatsuo Suzuki posted on /p/
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>>3761902
>>pictures of her in a public place is rape
this is why I use a filter. fungus is everywhere.
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>>3761896
Shit forgot the pic of the homeless dude
Sorry I’ve been drinking

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Okay listen. I get it, I really do. Street photography as a whole is predatory. The idea of sneaking up on someone who is unaware to capture in nature is perverse and invasive. But does that make it wrong? Well, it depends, really. I think ultimately it should come down to the intent of the photo and a history of what the photographer has captured before. I honestly feel that this person has being overly sensitive. This could be caused by past trauma, or poor experiences with men, but I don't think that those poor experiences should be automatically applied to everyone who takes your photo.

Street photography has been in institution of photography from the early days. Even since Edward Steichen set up his camera in the snow and captured the first street scene. Since then it has been used to display empathy, anguish, the human condition, and almost every facet of life. Street photography is much more than candid photography, it's a photojournalist look at life today, and as far as I'm concerned life deserves to be captured.

Maybe the best approach is the change how we carry ourselves, be less combative about our beliefs with Street, and more emphatic in our explanation. Because, afterall, Street is a genre of empathy.

I don't think it will be banned, it is tied too closely with freedom of the press. But I think the ongoing change of public opinion when it comes to the genre needs to be addressed. The onus falls on us, the Street Photographers, to change the public opinion. So, carry yourself well, don't be combative, and be ready to show off your best photos when anyone questions you so that they understand you are not being a creep, but instead you are capturing a record of life right now, a catalogue of being, so that when we reflect we understand what life on the street was like.
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>>3761904
>tatsuo Suzuki
the only street photographer with balls.
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>>3761917
>Street photography as a whole is predatory. The idea of sneaking up on someone who is unaware to capture in nature is perverse and invasive
Lol what the fuck is this shit I’m not sneaking up on people I’m walking around and snapping shots. The second you try to be sneaky people stop acting candidly and it ruins your shot. Sorry you reddit spacing faggot but unless you get rid of cctv street photography remains. What about people accidentally being in tourist photos or in a selfie of some friends? If you’re in public, you legally and ethically have no expectation of privacy, just like how posting on the internet also carries absolutely 0 expectation of privacy. Restricting photography is incredibly dumb.
>>3761920
Bruce Gilden
Alex Webb
Daido Moriyama
There’s a ton, you gotta step it up.

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>>3761917
>Maybe the best approach is the change how we carry ourselves, be less combative about our beliefs with Street, and more emphatic in our explanation. Because, afterall, Street is a genre of empathy.
This is the gayest version of street photography I’ve ever read
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>>3761921
>Bruce Gilden
Honestly tired of his photos now he just exploits ugly people, and his style of camera raping people is pretty tame. He's blunt, but still seems like a decent dude. He will 100% tell you your photos are shit and you should kys though. I respect that.
>Alex Webb
literally who?
>Daido Moriyama
I like his stuff, but i've never seen him *shoot* his photos.

Suzuki just chad walks into into people he doesn't give a fuck. It's abrasive and funny to watch.
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>>3761921

Obviously you haven't mastered the art of becoming invisible. It's alright, it comes with time ;)

I think you may be confused with my point. I am pro Street Photography, but the people are turning against us, so it's up to us to provide the people with reassurance that nothing sinister is going on when it come to Street.

Of course there are those who shoot contentiously, such as Gilden, and again, I am in support of their style. It just means the more placid photographers need to be the figure heads of the genre to reassure the public that we aren't combative.

Street Photography has always been a photographers genre, the general public doesn't give a shit about it, and won't care if it disappears. So it's up to us, the Street Photographers, to make sure it survives, and to do that, we must make sure that the public understand that it can be more than an invasion of privacy
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>>3761925
Yoooooooooo, Alex Webb is pretty tight, you should 100% check out his work. I really recommend 'The Suffering Of Light'
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>>3761924
This ideology is why your photos suck. Open up your heart and your photos will become much more expressive.

Ya, Gronk.
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>>3761930
Alright I'll add it to the book list.
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>>3761925
>literally who?
The absolute state of /p/
>>3761931
One nophoto telling another nophoto his photos are bad, thanks for the portfolio review
>>3761932
Dude was going to the rougher parts of South America from the 70’s onward during things like their election cycle to get pics. He’s great.
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>>3761925
>wanting to watch videos of photographers taking pictures in order to judge their pictures
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>>3761935

>>3761928
>>3761917
These are my photos :)

>>3761937
I disagree with your first statement, I think it's pretty hard to get quite close without being noticed. Took me years to acquire the skill. Sure, with a long lens you might be able to do it pretty easily, but you slap a wide on your camera and it becomes an incredibly hard challenge.

Yeah, 100%, but CCTV is faceless, and there has always been a cognitive dissonance when it comes to being captured in the street by a camera sitting on a pole. When it comes to Street there is a figure to blame. A literal person holding the camera. There absolutely could be rulings that this could be a form of assault. It's up to us to make sure this never happens, and if that comes at the cost of being a little bit nicer to our subjects, then I think that's a sacrifice we all should make.

Literally, all you need to do is develop social skills and not be a sperg. It's really not that hard.
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>>3761940
>wanting to watch videos of photographers taking pictures in order to judge their pictures
It's integral to the process of street photography. You can be some beta using a 200mm lens, or you can be alpha and dry hump your subject while you're in their face. Or just fake being a dimentia patient like Winogrand.

If I was only judging on the photographs, Gilden would be absolute trash tier.
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>>3761892
In my funny european country, you have no right to privacy in public and can get fucked if you get upsetti spaghetti because someone snapped a picture of your weak chinned face. Even if you're standing around in your own yard, if its visible from a public place like the sidewalk, it's allowed.

You may then go and publish your work anywhere you like, in fact it's your right to be able to publish media without government intervention.

What is this country you might ask?
It's Sweden.

Bet you didnt see that one coming, fucko.
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>>3761871
Absolutely based. I got told to leave by Universal Studios for taking pictures of the outside of the studio, idk what people have against cameras lately.
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>>3761928
>so it's up to us to provide the people with reassurance that nothing sinister is going
You mean try to convince people that Sony cameras are not really mobile 5G extensions that will be used to control people after they have been vaccinated.
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>>3761960
wow, are the swedish not being cucks for once?
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>>3762055
We were cucks only once, and we hated it.
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>only mentions men taking pics of women
Um it's 2020 you can't be sexist and assume peoples gender
Do better
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>>3761960
That is the same in most countries. You just can't use another persons image to promote your product or service without their permission.
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>>3762068
Why mention the contrary and give it the blanket statement "european laws" then?
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>>3762055
Despite what the internet says there are a ton of personal freedoms here, hence why they had a big issue mandating face masks and lockdowns. Only now they are making a "rule" of it, but even then it's just a strong recommendation.
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>>3761943
>if that comes at the cost of being a little bit nicer to our subjects, then I think that's a sacrifice we all should make

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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>>3762087
This, you cannot force people to be nice to eachother in public, that's actual tyrrany. People are gonna be people, if you dont like it, tough shit, grow thicker skin or dont go outside.
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>>3761861
I hate street photog fags with their hipster rangefinder memecams. I hope street photography gets banned.
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>>3762099
>weak troll is weak
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>>3762099
I strongly disagree with your opinion, i think you're a bitter cunt but you're allowed to have that opinion due to the right of free speech many countries have.

In the same spirit, photographers have the right to photograph anything or anyone they want in public, because photography is a form of expression and therefore speech.
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>>3762105
Addendum: While I also find pushy street 'togs annoying, I'll take that over a police state regulating my own personal ability to express myself and choice of media I decide to consume.
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>>3762104
not a troll rangefinderhomo
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>>3762105
so photogs have the right to photograph nude children? fucking pedo
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>>3762111
>so photogs have the right to photograph nude children? fucking pedo
parents have been doing this and posting it to puvlic/social media for AGES.

>anything or anyone they want in public
Also why are you letting your kids run around in public naked?
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>>3762111
yes, they do.
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>>3762111
If theyre in public yeah, its the parents responsibility to take care of the child.

I bet if you started parading a naked child through the streets there would be droves of people taking photos or recording video due to how ridiculous that is.
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>>3761917
>Street photography as a whole is predatory
>sneaking up on someone who is unaware to capture in nature is perverse

I disagree with this notion, since street photography involving people involves a lot more forms than "sneaking" up on people, such as outright confronting them or snapping random people passing on the sidewalk.
Even then, predatory involves "taking" something, like a wolf preying on a deer and eventually killing it. "Taking" a picture is not the same, it means to create something akin to a painting or an essay on a topic. The taking of a picture therefore clearly falls under freedom of expression or free speech laws.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that they are essentially arguing for a honor or feeling based code of law. Honor and feelings are interchangeable concepts, because they cannot be quanitified or qualified reliably. If you argue street photography is "predatory", then you actually validate the idea that feelings/honor is the subject of prey. It is not. Taking or creating and then publishing a picture is a free expression that must only under very clear circumstances be illegal. If you recognize hurt feelings/honor as something which damage is criminal, then you will have to apply the same recognition to every form of written text or spoken word.

While yes, I think it's important to be compassionate street photography is not predatory. It is my right to freely express myself and I want to express myself, because I have soemthing to say. It's my right. In Germany this right is not
recognized and thus everyday street photography with people as a subject is banned, unless you are at an event or demonstration. People here will be very wary of anyone with a camera.
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>>3761861
No expectation of privacy in a public place.

I'm looking at you Pennsylvania cops.
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>>3761861

I usually dress like a bum, I even have a boot with a piece of a carpet wrapped around it, use my shopping cart as a tripod, camera is partially in a cardboard box, rarely does anyone notice, I tend to become invisible, when they do, they laugh, pose, laugh, ask me if I work for National Geographic or Vogue, I can sit on the sidewalk and shoot all day, never had a complaint.
>>
>hahaha so what you don't like me taking pictures of you? It is my right I can do this what are you gonna do about it LOL
>w-what noooOOOOOO please give me back my camera NO PLEASE DON'T STAMP ON IT wh- HELP HELP AAARRRR IT HURTS
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>>3762186
but that would actually be a felony, destruction of private property. whereas photography is protected by the first amendment.

I once took a photo of a cop during a protest and he got really pissed. I went to chat with him after and even tho he was pissed he never asked me to do anything with the photo or even say I wasn't allowed. he just basically called me an asshole for taking his photo, which, is not a crime.

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>>3761890
Based. I used to walk around NYC with my D750
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>>3762194
>I once took a photo of a cop during a protest and he got really pissed.

If you do that in germanistan the police officer has the right to detain you.
>>
I'd like to add that I'm not American and the laws In Quebec are actually pretty shit compared to the States or the other provinces, but you're still 100% allowed to take photos of people in public places, just publishing them becomes a little bit iffy. worst that can happen however is you get sued for at most 2000$ which is honestly kinda just a slap on the wrist.
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>>3762203
That's awful! :D
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>>3762203
wait, why?
>>
>EU

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>>3762225
The funny thing about EU laws is that countries may choose to not enforce them if they want
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>>3762227
>if they want
Big if there, and I wouldn’t want to be at the mercy of whether the authorities feel like enforcing a particular law or not on their whim at any given time
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>>3762232
Ez, just leave the EU. the UK has and i kinda feel like Sweden will too within 10 years.
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>>3762217
As a photographer or journalist you are allowed to document contemporary history (Zeitgeschichte). A bystander at a protest is not a person who falls under that label. A politician is. A protester can sometimes be photographed individually, but in general you should only photograph groups of over five people without a main subject.

A police officer in Germany is not defined as a person of Zeitgeschichte, except when he is actively taking action in a protest for example. You can photograph police officers beating up protestors, but it depends on the circumstances if it's actually legal to show one individual police officer beating up one individual protestor, because the contemporary history usually affects groups, not individuals. They can detain you if they even suspect you have been taking pictures of them.

Still, it's not really legal to photograph people when they are dying on the ground, because that is an emergency situation where you would infringe on the right to dignity. A photograph like >>3762120 might be history now, but in actuality it's a legal minefield to publish such a picture, because it shows a child in an emergency situation.

Coming back to police officers: they are not a person of Zeitgeschichte by itself, if they are going around in a city, but they could be a subject of Zeitgeschichte, if there was a terror atack in that city a day ago, and now they are patrolling in groups with machine pistols. In general publishing such a picture is only allowed, if there is special public interest to be informed. We have a law called "Recht am eigenen Bild" (lit. Right to your own picture) which always comes into play and has to be weighed against the special public interest to be informed f.e..
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>>3762227
Germany has chosen to apply it in whole without any changes. Rulings are still pending.
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>>3762248
Yeah but germany is also basically the inventor and upkeeper of the EU. Its a gay hell smell place politically.
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>>3762244
Watch 'Nightcrawler' to see it from the N American viewpoint.
>a touching story of how being a psychopath can advance your career
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>>3762300
More like the North American Jewpoint.
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>>3762300
Thanks for the recommendation.
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>>3761861
The author is an idiot
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Relevant, years ago someone was butthurt about Eggy and petitioned to make street photos illegal. I bet most of the story is made up as usual.

https://www.change.org/p/australian-law-reform-commission-make-non-consensual-photography-and-distribution-of-non-consensual-material-punishable
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>>3762244
Can understand, and also, can relate with the Brazilian laws. thanks for the insight
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>>3761861
>Legality of Street Photography
It's pretty straightforward on the legal front here - basically "don't be creepy".
If I'm going to actually take a photo of someone doing something, I'll ask if they mind first, and also mention that it's just a hobby and it won't be published anywhere.
If I anticipate taking pics including people while I'm out, I'll take my iPad so I can show them a few examples of what I do.
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>>3762990
people don't confront you. in all my time of doing street it only happened once when I took a photo of some guys kids, he just said "no photos" I showed him the photos, asked if he wanted them, still said no, so I deleted them, he thanked me I thanked him and I was off to shoot some more.
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>>3762207
I only took touristy photos and general dashcam footage in Quebec.
I avoided taking photos of military stuff that wasn't a public display.
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>>3761871
Similar UK laws. You can take any photo in a public space no problem. Inside private property is obviously a different matter.
People still get hissy and bitchy though

>t. Security officer (not the asshole kind)

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I get the same rush I used to when I did graffiti years ago. Maybe there is something wrong with me because I do like to walk up to people and just snap a picture of them. Most don’t say anything g and just walk by, some ask me what I’m doing and a few tried to beat me up.

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>>3761861
Europoor here, America shuts its news sites outside of the US, can someone give me the summary
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>>3761868
How will they prove racism totally exists in America without the use of out of context video of people having a meltdown being followed in a parking lot calling someone a nigger?
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>>3763768
Someone got their photo taken by a creepy street photographer, equivocates it to being raped.
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>>3763752
What did you do when they tried to beat you up?
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>>3761917
so is wildlife photography animal cruelty?
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>>3764146
uhmmm, beastiality would be the more accurate analogy.
>happy turkey day.

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>>3761921
>Sorry you reddit spacing faggot but unless you get rid of cctv street photography remains.


This. There is no expectation to the right of privacy in public. When people were getting mad about creepshots a while ago they couldn’t do anything even though they tried
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>>3761861
>rape
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>>3761861
As someone who actually rapes people, I can't see it
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>>3764342
I like your style. Instead of making photography illegal, decriminalize rape.
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>>3764344
Now we're on the right track
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>>3764151
Yeah, dude. Sick analogue you got there...
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>>3761861
can the police really make you delete pictures? What's the law here and what happens if you don't?
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>>3764695
Absolutely not. The whole article is a fevered fan fiction. NYPD has more experience working with street photographers than any police force in the world. There’s no way they would do something like that.
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>>3761871
>t. surveillance camera man
based



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