[a / b / c / d / e / f / g / gif / h / hr / k / m / o / p / r / s / t / u / v / vg / vm / vmg / vr / vrpg / vst / w / wg] [i / ic] [r9k / s4s / vip / qa] [cm / hm / lgbt / y] [3 / aco / adv / an / bant / biz / cgl / ck / co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / pw / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / vt / wsg / wsr / x / xs] [Settings] [Search] [Mobile] [Home]
Board
Settings Mobile Home
/out/ - Outdoors

Name
Options
Comment
Verification
4chan Pass users can bypass this verification. [Learn More] [Login]
File
  • Please read the Rules and FAQ before posting.
  • There are 44 posters in this thread.

08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
05/04/17New trial board added: /bant/ - International/Random
10/04/16New board for 4chan Pass users: /vip/ - Very Important Posts
[Hide] [Show All]


[Advertise on 4chan]


File: deadbirb.jpg (18 KB, 320x460)
18 KB
18 KB JPG
How much warmer is the atom AR over the LT? If I have an AR in medium do I need to get one of their shell jackets in Large, or do they adjust for that already? I'm looking at a Beta LT over an atom AR. The AR would be upgrading my LT. I want a little more insulation.
>>
Got my grail jacket this month. Fjallraven Anorak no8.
>>
Arcteryx's warranty sucks, buy assuming a limited lifespan (3-5 years) with zero potential for repairs/warranty
>>
>>2497190
I've never had a problem with them
>>
You could get a custom jacket made, using a modern waterproof/breathable fabric that blows GoreTex out of the water in terms of breathability and weight while being just as waterproof, and it would still be cheaper than paying the arcteryx and gore brand taxes
>>
>>2497193
And how many warranty/repair claims have you made in the past 5 years
>>
>>2497204
None. That was my point. Sorry to hear about your luck.
>>
>>2497200
Wheres a good place to commission such a jacket?
>>
>>2497209
Timmermade does custom jackets, and seems to get all his fabric from Dutchware.
Email him and ask if he will make you a jacket out of Helion
https://youtu.be/Qhx0It87kzU
>>
>>2497184
Why is this so expensive? Even for fjallraven this is absurd
>>
>>2497169
Arc'teryx only make good shells. You can get much better insulation layers for the price of an Atom jacket.
I'd buy a Buffalo Active shirt or Alpine Jacket if you want synthetic or a Mountain Equipment or Rab jacket if you want down. You can get 6000m+ down jackets from these brands for about £250 if you know where to look.
>>
arcteryx was bought by a chinese company in 2019
>>
>>2497200
unironically $10 frog toggs from wal mart mog every gore tex product other than shakedry
>>2497440
my opinion is biased by the fact that where i live prolonged constant heavy rain is the norm.
but i don't even like their shell jackets to be honest. most/all of them are dwr and only keep you dry for a few hours.
arcteryx is great if you live in a northern climate and want a casual shell jacket to throw on over your street clothes when you need to go outside.
if i lived somewhere where my jacket spent more time on my back than worn, i'd like them more.
>>
>>2497190
>>2497208
anon is correct.
arcteryx's whole niche is that they lean heavily to the performance and light weight side of things. which means a lot of their garments are glued together in a lot of areas, and the life-span of the garment is determined by the adhesives.
the end result is a better performing garment that isn't as dependable. there's upsides to the downside.
>>
I too rike chinteryx berry good prease undastand it invent tech shell so sorry disposabuh goretex trash bag is no easy fix prease buy anotha 20% off
>>
>>2497497
What jacket do you wear/suggest?
>>
>>2497451
>arcteryx was bought by a chinese company in 2019
Yeah I know.
>>2497208

>Letterhead Arcteryx
>Hello Jason,

>We’ve completed a full assessment of your jacket and we can clearly see the lamination issue. We’re sorry you had this experience and we want to help find a solution for you.

>We found leftover glue residue on the material surrounding the drawcord and unfortunately this residue will greatly limit our repair capability. Historically, we have seen that once the glue has degraded a new application of glue will not bond to the fabric. In this case, we cannot proceed with this repair due to the fact that it will not hold for a long-term period.

>We’re sorry that we do not have a repair option for this case, but we would like to do what we can to find a solution that works for you. In place of a repair, if you are willing to part ways with this jacket we would like to offer you 50% off any new Arc’teryx product of your choice. If you’re interested in this offer, see below:

Obviously I left out the other details. Here are my problems. I bought this prior to 2019 when it was lifetime warranty. We also had a custom run so I couldn't have the same things done again without having the large run that was done the previous time. And if you know lamination will cause a failure that you can't fix, then why keep doing it unless you're doing it to just sell more shit?
>>
>>2497169
whats the best way to stop wind / wind chill from blowing through your jacket? I ve been trying to figure this out for ages, we get serious blasts of arctic air here and it feels like no matter what your wearing on top, it just cuts right through at the zipper line.

Also, best parka style jacket right now thats not 2k?
>>
Are those 3-in-1 jackets a meme?
Medium jackets are just a little roomy, but small jackets fit snugly. Which do I go for? In the medium jacket, even if I wear something underneath, I think there'd still be some space. With the small jackets I may have room for like one sweater at the very most. I tried the medium and small jackets with just a t-shirt.
I live in Florida, moving to Massachusetts and trying to find a good winter jacket.
>>
Also why the FUCK is everything polyester. Shopping for jackets has made me realize I probably have microplastics running through my veins. That nice pile sweater you have that's 100% polyester (or even... GASP recycled polyester. Don't we love our planet folks), congrats, now you're breathing in the fibers. Now you have plastic in your lungs. Holy shit we are fucked. And then we have to wash these things. Plastic in our water, soil. Animals eat this shit. Oh Lord... Fuck you Patagonia.
>>
Disposable goretex gear made with PFCs with no ability to be repaired that is primarily warn by commuters. Why go /out/ if you can’t even do the barest minimum to minimize the damage you cause?
>>
>>2497600
>And if you know lamination will cause a failure that you can't fix
It CAN cause a failure, but not will.
It’s not guaranteed.
Part of the reason laminated fabrics kinda suck is because the good shit is pretty toxic for workers and terrible for the environment.
It’s cutting edge technical fabric, but it’s not perfect
>>
>>2497661
>It CAN cause a failure, but not will.
Holy fucking pedantry. The point is that they can't fix it. They know they can't fix it, yet they keep doing it. It is a weak point.
>It’s not guaranteed.
It was. That's why my gamma lt pre 2019 cost double what they cost now.
>Part of the reason laminated fabrics kinda suck is because
You can't fucking fix it when it delaminates so you sell people something else, sell your shit for less than you did, then say "practical lifetime", rather than lifetime warranty. Their shit isn't magic. I have far cheaper shells and jackets that work exponentially better than my Arc'teryx shit.
>>
>>2497668
whats your best technical shell, presumed use: alpine, climbing
>>
What you are supposed to do to own a shell like this for all the larpers who think they can own something like this with a clean conscience:

1. Wash it every 10-12 days of strenuous use or every 20-30 days of lifestyle use
2. Reapply c6 containing fluorocarbon DWR, no you can’t use Nikwax it will void your warranty, spray that shit on, basically dump it into your drain, where its not filtered by most municipal water systems
3. Pretend you can look a tree or an animal in the eye at your most frequently visited places knowing your faggot ass DWR shit is literally in their bodies bioaccumulating, and in yours
4. Repeat this process dozens of times a year until its time to throw the garment away and buy another
>>
>>2497601
tight weave nylon wind shirt, the hard part is finding one either without a zipper or with a zipper located somewhere other than the center of your chest. anorak style ones that zip from the side are ideal.
>>2497652
polyester became the norm because its superior to cotton/wool/etc on almost all technical metrics, its incredibly versatile, and its cheap. this all happened before the scientific community admitted microplastics are bad. most people still don't really know or care.
>congrats, now you're breathing in the fibers. Now you have plastic in your lungs. Holy shit we are fucked. And then we have to wash these things. Plastic in our water, soil. Animals eat this shit. Oh Lord... Fuck you Patagonia.
one single day of shien existing is probably a greater environmental impact than every piece of outdoor gear ever made in human history. i'm willing to put money on it.
>>2497655
>Why go /out/ if you can’t
where i live, if you're trying to go all natural with cotton and wool, you're probably only going /out/ 2 or 3 months out of the year.
>>2497672
dwr jackets suck dick anyways.
>>2497669
i would go with silpoly or silnylon but they are hard to find you will probably need to find someone to custom make one.
the jacket itself should last forever so the environmental impact is negligible.
it will never wet out unlike dwr.
it will need to rely on mechanical venting to a degree.
instead of treating it with toxic ass dwr that sheds, silicone is as just about as inert as it gets.
natural waxes also work, but not as good.
>>
>>2497669
This dutch harbor gear soft shell I got from Fred Meyer 15 years ago.
>>
>>2497669
Notice that twice in this thread and roughly 50% of the time; the only alternative to arcteryx people who shit on them will give you is to get a bespoke jacket made.
>>
>>2497719
There’s tons of other companies that make shell jackets like Arcterx.
Outdoor Research, La Sportiva, Mammut, Helly Hanson, Mountain Hardware, Black Diamond, etc…
Literally just go to Backcountry .com and pick a technical shell jacket from a different brand if you don’t like Arcteryx, it’s not like there is a significant difference in anything tangible
>>
>>2497720
>it’s not like there is a significant difference in anything tangible
Exactly. Which is why its weird all these people poopoo one brand in favor of bespoke. Seems like a bunch of elitists to me.
>>
>>2497724
Nah, with a bespoke jacket can get whatever you want and aren’t limited to having to get it a certain way and only that way because 30,000 of them are being made to spec
>>
>>2497719
>is to get a bespoke jacket made.
so? a bespoke jacket from cottage brands like anon's example timmermade costs less than an arc'teryx shell. their turn around is fast too. not the anon who recommended them, but i had them build me a custom backpack a while ago and it was quick.
i'll drop the good rain gear copypasta after this post (word limit) for a comprehensive list of good rain gear.
>>
>>2497750
>copy pasta:
Since EU and US govs introduced flurocarbon bans modern DWR is shit. Doesn't matter price or brand, it's like trying to make a good pizza if wheat was banned. Once DWR fails, you have a soaked, cold layer of non-breathable nylon. Fine in drizzle but eventually sweat condenses and membrane starts seeping rain.

There are currently 4 jacket materials that aren't faced with DWR treated nylon and do not wet out:

>Goretex Shakedry
Pictured in Op's post. Featherweight, better moisture vapour transfer than some windshells, so good they're contractually not allowed by Gore to use pit zips (would help reg. temp). Eye watering $$$, reports of pinholes developing after thru hike or 2 years of civvie use. Perfect for cycling (but only comes in black/dark). Not for bushwacking

>Columbia Outdry
Their answer to shakedry but beefed up so less porous membrane. Featherwt, lightwt and caldorado most breathable and light models. Burlier versions = no breathe. Mediocre moisture transfer but blocks wind. Same never-wets-out membrane outer, inside dries quick if overwhelmed. Very durable and light, some reports of delamination after 1 year (not experienced after 3 myself). SHIT hood design, gross colours, reports of declining seam quality. Cheap on sale and very sparse stock as this material never took off (maybe because its ugly and shiny). My favourite, 8/10 put it through the wringer!!

>froggs toggs ultralite
Basically a rubber mac. Enough moisture transfer to dry inside overnight, these fit so poorly that mechanical venting happens by default. Not good for warmth, shit neck closure on hood (add velcro or snaps), shreds and pinholes easily. $20/£25 for a jacket (and useless pants/troos) that NEVER wets out, weighs 180g and mogs things 5x price. Nice colours.

>Silpoly/silnylon/pu jacket.
Permanently waterproof (will need silicon refreshing after years), zero moisture transfer, relies on vents. Featherweight, packs TINY.
Silpoly dries faster nylon. Rare.
>>
>>2497724
nah not elitist. i recommended a bespoke or DIY silpoly jacket. you can make them out of old cheaper polyester windbreakers yourself btw, no harder than seam sealing a tent.
but i also recommend frog toggs, which are $15 and wal*mart stocks them. in on trail situations where durability isn't a big concern, they absolutely mog an arc'teryx dwr shell. doesn't get any cheaper. its literally just a rain jacket made out of lab coat rubber.
>>
>>2497753
Helly Hansen has Lifa Infinity Pro.

Using our LIFA® fibers, a Helly Hansen technology that is lightweight and hydrophobic, the fully waterproof/breathable membrane and durable water repellent performance are achieved without the use of chemicals.

Combining the LIFA INFINITY™ membrane with 100% LIFA® hydrophobic face fabric, LIFA INFINITY PRO™ is a groundbreaking technology, meeting the extreme waterproofness and breathability of HELLY TECH® Professional construction.

With everlasting water repellent protection that never needs to be reproofed with chemical treatment after use, LIFA INFINITY PRO™ delivers long-lasting, responsible and superior professional grade performance.

I've never spoken to anyone with a jacket that has it though.
>>
>>2497791
I have a HH ski jacket with that shit thats semi insulated and its quite good good, no idea how their stuff would pan out for mountaineering, never tried just because the hood is a bit too large for me to trust it in heavy wind and it packs fairly large in it
>>
>>2497824
It’s also a bit tight on my biceps
>>
>>2497204
I've made 3 warranty claims in the past 2 years alone, including an item that was made back in 2005 which includes a 2020 Beta Shell, Bora backpack, and midlayer fleece. I got these items second hand and got full market prices back for the items (they include taxes), which I turned around and got additional gear. Are you in EU by chance? That or you're just extremely unlucky. I have a number of their items, but their pant line is honestly the best thing they make.

>>2497668
Also, why are you bitching about a gamma LT, outside of the gamma SL anorak, the gamma line is literally for casual use. Did the patch on the arm delaminate? I'm looking at mine from 2013 and that's the only thing that may see delamination...which only affects your ability to carry a minimalist wallet...
>>
>>2497876
The entire bottom fold that houses the drawstring has delaminated
>>
>>2497876
Don't talk shit about the Gamma SL hoody, that's my favorite softshell bar none, good as a windshell or light rain, GOAT for rock climbing in the wind.
>>
You will not need an Atom AR unless you're a bitch, I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and go outside on -20 days with a base layer and my Atom LT on and I'm plenty warm.
>>
File: chrome_OrCXInQfTe.png (739 KB, 805x589)
739 KB
739 KB PNG
>>2497169
live in wisconsin, dont need a jacket or pants its like 20f /out/ rn, stop being a bitch
>>
File: 2021_AWC_note_1280-232.jpg (195 KB, 1280x1024)
195 KB
195 KB JPG
I can strongly recommend pertex shield pro. It's extremely light and breathable for a waterproof fabric. I got my jacket from a Japanese company (warning it's very expensive). Its extremely breathable such that at lower temperatures you need to either layer more underneath or wear a windshell on top. I like it because I am super sweaty so breathability is the most important thing to me. Pit zips on goretex doesn't cut it

https://www.yamatomichi.com/en/products/ul-all-weather-coat/
>>
>>2498841
c6 dwr
>>
Why dont we establish categories, best hardshell under 300$ best softshell under 300$ ? Stuff like that
>>
>>2498922
Yeah it's not that bad, you just spray the shit on every 30-40 hours of use (in rain use)
>>
>>2499018
>c6
>Yeah it's not that bad
fuck off nigger
>>
>>2499037
i mean the alternative of non-dwr shells aren't really meant for backpacking and also are notorious for having terrible durability
it's really not that hard to spray/wash your shit every once and a while, not sure why you are so mad
>>
>>2497169
How’s the Outdoor Research Allies Colossus Parka? Need it for hunting, and calling coyotes at night. I’ve heard it’s warm but can’t find any reviews on it. How’s OR regarded generally?
>>
>>2497169
what kind of autism is this? I was sitting outside this morning looking for deer and it was -2F wearing some underarmour thermals and a carhart and it was alright
>>
Bump
>>
>>2499038
>i mean the alternative of non-dwr shells aren't really meant for backpacking and also are notorious for having terrible durability

how did our ancestors conquer the outdoors when they didnt have access to PFAS lab chemicals?
>>
>>2499115
There are a lot of non-fluorocarbon dwr treatments that are about as good as c6 at 100x less environmental risk, you can look up the formulations of most popular replacement dwr treatments as well. There's really no excuse for buying a PFC product
>>
>>2499096
Help pls

I just bought it
>>
is waxed canvas my only option for an outer layer if I don't want to use plastics anymore
>>
Does anyone have the Sarma outdoor jacket from Varusteleka? I'm thinking of getting that + outdoor pants but the Sarma goods have really swingy reviews.
>>
>>2497169
Arcteryx is a meme lifestyle brand since chinks bought it. Salomon too. Get a proper outdoors brand.
>>
>>2499592
For example?
>>
>>2499567
Theres ventile
Its tightly woven cotton
When it gets wet, the fibres expand and water cannot penetrate through the inside
Takes forever to dry and its extremely heavy
Before that people used wool. Lanolins the oil of sheep hair that is hydrophobic. Most modern wool gets rid of most of it.
All the options are heavy though.
Theres also trying to find a 100% rubber coat but itd be as sweaty and heavy as anything.
>>
whats a good shell that doesn't come with PFAS / C6 / anything bad and I can apply a better non-gay DWR to it?
>>
>>2499585
Their merino wool stuff sucks cock, base layers fell apart after a few wears, gloves came missing stitches, even their wool watch cap was shit quality because it's so heavily coated in plastic it feela like acrylic
>>
>>2500655
alternatively, is there a good shell i can buy that comes with some of the non-shit DWR treatments?
basically how do i wear a shell that isnt made of teflon or coated in it
>>
>>2500678
>>2500678
buy a polyester (better) or ripstop nylon (more durable) windbreaker and impregnate it with silicone or a natural wax. that's going to be your most inert possible treatment. look for one with pit zips because you will have to rely on mechanical venting.
that's the most eco friendly possible rain gear that doesn't perform like shit and is actually durable.
your next best bet for eco friendly is frog toggs, which are essentially a layer of rubber fused to a layer of polypropylene fuzz. same stuff disposable lab coats are made of. the only problem with them is they tear easily. excellent on-trail choice though.
dwr is shit in general, impermeable layer + mechanical venting is far better. i say as an oldfag who lives in one of the rainiest parts of earth.
>>2500661
if you want quality wool gear especially gloves:
https://thebuffalowoolco.com/
https://herdwear.net/
https://www.merlinshideout.com/
etc
its not cheap and it will pill but it will outlast and outperform any merino shit.
my gloves are on 12 years of heavy abuse and well worth every penny.
>>
>>2497681
>polyester became the norm because its superior to cotton/wool/etc on almost all technical metrics, its incredibly versatile, and its cheap.
You have no idea how retarded you sound
>>
>>2499688
>Most modern wool gets rid of most of it.
anything sold as "merino wool" these days is going to be almost totally devoid of it and spray coated in plastic.
the only exception are a few tiny cottage brands, and also patagonia (but they don't sell much wool gear to begin with)
>>2499688
>Theres also trying to find a 100% rubber coat but itd be as sweaty and heavy as anything.
frog toggs ultralite 1 is a very very light weight 5oz rubber coat.
by far the best rain shell if you're on trail where durability is not a concern. it tears easily but patches up with duct tape. and on long thru hikes its sold at wal mart so you can just buy another pair in town if you fuck it up.
>>
>>2500738
polyester shirt dries in 3 hours
wool/cotton shirt dries in 1.5 days
polyester is a stronger fiber than wool and can be woven much tighter
etc the list goes on
sorry anon, but you are a clueless clown.
>>
>>2500738
The only thing wool does better is not stink as easily
>>
>>2500743
>>2500745
Polyester:
>doesn't breathe at all making you sweaty and clammy
>melts/burns easily
>makes you infertile if you wear it as underwear
>wears out and gets holes in no time
>stinks to high hell after a single day's use
>doesn't insulate at all if it's wet
>not the least bit water resistant

Wool:
>great insulator and but also breathes and wicks sweat away
>fire resistant
>will outlast you
>never needs to be washed unless you soil yourself
>still keeps you warm even when it's wet
>water resistant to a point
>>
>>2500743
You can dry wool over a fire and even when it's wet it retains its insulating properties. Polyester will melt if you try to dry it over a fire, and you will be freezing your ass off while waiting those 3 hours for it to dry.
>>
>>2500745
yeah pretty much.
there are other synthetics that resist smell, polypropylene comes to mind as its pretty much the most hydrophobic material clothes are made of.
>>2500748
clueless clown.
>doesn't breathe at all making you sweaty and clammy
that's the weave, not the material. you can make fishnet mesh out of either polyester or wool. idiot.
>wears out and gets holes in no time
did you put this in the wrong category? wool is far less durable than polyester. i'm guessing you're pretty young and bought your first batch of gear a year or two ago. poly lasts forever and merino has to be spray coated in superwash so that the washing machine doesn't destroy it.
wool is a pilling fabric that's well known to be prone to mechanical blow-outs.
>great insulator and but also breathes and wicks sweat away
wool is a great insulator.
but polyester is an even better insulator than wool.
clueless clown.
>will outlast you
you're lucky to get 2-5 years out of merino gear.
>still keeps you warm even when it's wet
only when mildly damp. when above 50% saturation they both lose all their insulative properties.
polyester dries in 1/6th the time of an equal weight and weave wool.
>water resistant to a point
no its not
modern merino wool is entirely stripped of lanolin and treated with superwash. if it wasn't it would be dry clean only.
>>
>>2500752
>You can dry wool over a fire and even when it's wet it retains its insulating properties. Polyester will melt if you try to dry it over a fire, and you will be freezing your ass off while waiting those 3 hours for it to dry.
you clearly speak from inexperience.
how old are you? 18? 20?
>>
its called bringing a second set of clothes (sleep + active) you fucking zoomer child
yes its just a totally normal thing for people to freeze to death drying their clothes out on the mountains. rolling my fucking eyes. try doing these things before posting hypothetical napkin-logic posts about them first, child.
>>
>>2500754
>you can make fishnet mesh out of either polyester or wool.
If you tried to make a breathable polyester weave it would have zero insulation, retard. Its insulating properties are premised on its non-breathability.

>did you put this in the wrong category? wool is far less durable than polyester.
>you're lucky to get 2-5 years out of merino gear.
Go to your nearest thrift store and try to see how many polyester coats from the 30s and 40s you can find. Filson wool cruisers are heirlooms.

>poly lasts forever and merino has to be spray coated in superwash so that the washing machine doesn't destroy it.
Why the hell would you put wool in a washing machine? Jesus Christ dude...try reading the label you retard.

>only when mildly damp. when above 50% saturation they both lose all their insulative properties.
Wrong. Wool retains 80% of its insulation properties even when fully saturated. Anyone who's ever gotten a soaker while wearing wool socks knows this.

>modern merino wool is entirely stripped of lanolin
Then don't buy merino wool retard. There are many other types of wool.
>>
>>2500760
Who are you even responding to? You still need to dry your day clothes out for the next day either way.
>>
>>2500763
polyester wasn't common in jackets until the 70's dingus, the textile itself was first discovered in the 40's.
also quit conflating the properties of coarse wools and soft wools. you keep interchanging the two to rack up 2x as many advantages but they're not the same thing.
>Filson wool cruisers are heirlooms.
yeah and the wool in a filson cruiser's not even remotely the same as the "merino wool" you buy off the shelf today chemically.
all the lanolin is stripped and then its spray coated in plastic (superwash) so its effectively a whole different material. this is done to make it machine washable. the only major brand selling soft wool not treated this way is patagonia currently.
>Why the hell would you put wool in a washing machine? Jesus Christ dude...try reading the label you retard.
see above.
you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
all manufacturers of soft wool garments treat them with superwash to be machine washable now. and it says on the label.
>Wrong. Wool retains 80% of its insulation properties even when fully saturated. Anyone who's ever gotten a soaker while wearing wool socks knows this.
nah
verifiable with a thermal camera and a day's free time
https://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2012/03/does-wool-keep-you-warm-when-wet.html
>Then don't buy merino wool retard. There are many other types of wool.
coarse wools aren't interchangeable with polyester.
they're used for different purposes & garments.
we're comparing soft wool to polyester.
>>
File: 1647367756310.jpg (2.42 MB, 3024x4032)
2.42 MB
2.42 MB JPG
>>2500768
the obvious 20 something child who thinks wool is durable.
anyone who's used soft wool gear longer than a few years knows this is not the case. so inexperience is the only explanation i can come up with.
here's what heavy weight merino wool looks like after 1 season of mountain climbing when you're not a cityfag larper fag who wants to rvturn to tradition or whatever this wool shill faggot is on about.
>>
>>2500748
>doesn't breathe at all making you sweaty and clammy
Alpha Direct is made of polyester and is the most breathable fleece on the market.
Basically all fleece is made of polyester btw.
>melts, burns easily
Don’t sit 3” from a fire.
>infertility if underwear
Lol yah it magically passes through your skin and attacks your balls directly
>wears out in no time
What form are you even comparing?
A poly fleece jacket will last for decades of use
>stinks
That’s the one thing I already said wool was better
>doesn't insulate at all if it's wet
Polyester fleece does not collapse when wet, it’s still retains is insulating properties.
>not the least bit water resistant
Polyester is hydrophobic, it literally does not absorb water.
You don’t know what you’re talking about
>>
File: 1657134235684.jpg (29 KB, 354x480)
29 KB
29 KB JPG
>muuuh fire
are you getting hand grenades thrown at you?
or doing forest service/firefighting?
probably not a big deal then.
why would my fleece jacket get burned in a campfire? its for hiking in. if i'm around the campfire and its cold out, i'm wearing my down or synthetic puffy jacket most likely.
picrel has gotten the job done for me & every other hiker since the beginning of time, when my puffy gets a little too close to the fire.
i don't think this single property is worth carrying around a 5x heavier jacket for. i'll wear my filson cottton and wool button up shirts /out/ all the time but i hardly ever reach for my vintage wool cruiser. way too heavy for less than horseback riding.
>>
>>2500769
>yeah and the wool in a filson cruiser's not even remotely the same as the "merino wool" you buy off the shelf today chemically.
I never mentioned merino wool once. You did. This is a jacket thread, and most people won't be buying a merino wool jacket.

>all manufacturers of soft wool garments treat them with superwash to be machine washable now. and it says on the label.
See above: I was never talking about merino wool. Also my merino wool says to hand wash with cold water on the label so obviously you're not speaking for everyone.

>verifiable with a thermal camera and a day's free time
>https://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2012/03/does-wool-keep-you-warm-when-wet.html
Your own article confirms that wool is superior to polyester when wet:
>Now, the results might appear more extreme than they actually are. In reality, the fact that the wet wool can provide as much insulation as no insulation at all, shows that the wool is doing quite a bit of work here. The thermal conductivity of air is 0.023. The thermal conductivity of water on the other hand is 0.6. The much higher thermal conductivity allows for much higher heat loss in water than air. Technically, an article of clothing that is saturated with water, should have thermal conductivity closer to that of water, causing much higher rate of heat loss when compared with heat loss when just exposed to air. The fact that the wet wool provides insulation similar to that of air (no insulation) shows that it is in fact insulating.

>coarse wools aren't interchangeable with polyester.
Again, this is a jacket thread and most wool jackets are not made with merino wool. You're moving goal posts.
>>
>>2500772
>Lol yah it magically passes through your skin and attacks your balls directly
Yeah it does.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8279095/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1623716/
>>
>>2500772
>Polyester is hydrophobic, it literally does not absorb water.
Then why does it take 3 hours to dry?
>>
>>2500779
okay well then if we're talking coarse wool, you're pretty much limited to low activity jackets. coarse wool is very poorly suited for hiking in. its fine around the camp if you want something to replace your puffy jacket thats way heavier and bulkier.
your only wool equivalent to something like a polartec 100 fleece jacket, alpha direct, etc is going to be a loosely woven merino wool sweatshirt, or a thicker long sleeve shirt made of merino. something you can actually hike in without sweltering.
>>
>>2500784
not that anon
there's degrees to which materials are hydrophobic
if you want a synthetic that literally refuses to get wet, polypropylene.
>>
>>2500784
Anon was probably talking about poly fleece, in which water will get trapped between the fibers just like with any loose weave, but polyester itself is hydrophobic and does not absorb water.
Nylon and wool are both hydrophilic.
>>
>>2500780
>it may be assumed that the electrostatic potentials generated by the polyester fabric play a role in it.
First I’m hearing about that, but your links don’t say anything about it going through your skin magically. Static electricity shocking your balls all day making you infertile sounds kinda funny desu.
I guess we can add “more staticky” to the negative column then
>>
>>2500785
Not all of us are lightweight fags who can't carry an extra 2-3lbs worth of coat around with us. Moreover, hiking isn't the only /out/ activity for cold weather.

Personally I prefer wool for hunting because it's quiet and durable yet still very warm and breathable. It works when you're moving fast and sweating a little, and it also works when you're sneaking through the bush, and it works when you're sitting for hours trying not to freeze your balls off.

And as far as base layers go, I have no idea why anyone would prefer poly to merino wool. There's nothing worse than being stuck out in the woods with swamp ass in the dead of winter.
>>
>See above: I was never talking about merino wool. Also my merino wool says to hand wash with cold water on the label so obviously you're not speaking for everyone.
easy mistake to make when you're saying things like wool is breathable, seeing as that only applies to soft woven wools like merino and pals.
i think you read a lot online about wool without understanding there's two very different categories of wool, conflated all the properties of the two together, and have very little real world experience to pull from.
>>
>>2500807
its more the difference in bulk than weight.
have you ever seen how bulky and large a coarse wool jacket is? do i need to go dig the filson jacket you used as an example out of my closet and post a pic of it folded up? its huge, doesn't breathe, and i only use it on horseback. i'd never consider hiking in that thing.
>And as far as base layers go, I have no idea why anyone would prefer poly to merino wool. There's nothing worse than being stuck out in the woods with swamp ass in the dead of winter.
this is the actual meta for baselayers, 3 season list:
polypropylene liner socks. merino oversocks.
merino underwear.
synthetic mesh leggings/long johns. swap out for merino for sleeping.
synthetic shorts.
nylon pants.
synthetic mesh tank top. swap out for merino long sleeve for sleeping.
reasoning:
merino socks develop this disgusting "slick" feeling over 1-2 years from sweat. polypro liners reduce blisters and stop this from happening to your socks.
merino leggings are disgusting to hike in and fall apart very fast if you hike in them.
t shirts are peasant tier for hiking in. take the mesh tanktop pill.
>hunting
yes me too. nylon swish swish unacceptable. we're entering niche activity territory though, not talking about general /out/ anymore. its like me saying i prefer a wet suit when caving. duh.
>>
>>2500808
>easy mistake to make when you're saying things like wool is breathable, seeing as that only applies to soft woven wools like merino and pals
Not at all. I have a 100% wool blanket with a fairly thick weave and it keeps me warm in the winter yet still comfortably cool in the summer.
>>
>>2500814
you're not going to climb a mountain with that thing stitched into a poncho around your torso though. coarse wool's good for low activity but there's no single material+weave combination good for everything. that's why everyone tends to bring 2 different types of jackets when its winter.
>>
>>2500817
When people talk about wool being breathable what they mean is that it's better at regulating your body temperature regardless of the outside temperature. Other insulators like polyester and down will overheat you and make you sweat balls even when you're just standing around. Of course it's not going to be great if you're running a marathon or doing an expedition through the arctic, but for most casual use cases you're less likely to overheat or freeze in it compared to other materials.
>>
Why to chose between wool and synthetic when you can pick both? You can even get hybrid fabrics that have both woven together. God i hate these gatekeeping fags that this board is full of.
>>
>>2500832
this.
any reasonable anon knows there's a time & place for both.
>>2500830
breathable means it ventilates.
sounds to me like you just haven't compared apples to apples. if you take two equally warm shirts made out of polyester and wool both are going to cause you to sweat the exact same. the thickness and weight may vary because polyester is more thermally efficient. but say two shirts of equal warmness. the only difference is going to be how it wicks or doesn't wick the sweat. the wool one is also going to make you sweat. the only way it won't is if you unfairly compare a thin loose weave wool shirt to a thick tight woven polyester one.
there's an insane amount of variance in weave alone in polyester, its not all the same.
>>
>>2500849
>the only difference is going to be how it wicks or doesn't wick the sweat.
This is the difference between being warm or being cold. Even if the two pieces you're comparing have identical insulation properties, the one that wicks will keep you much warmer.
>>
>>2500830
>it's better at regulating your body temperature regardless of the outside temperature
I've never hear a good explanation for that desu, and sometimes I wonder whether it's not just that wool absorbs the sweat to make you feel less sweaty even while you lose the same amount of water. Wool would have to somehow be less insulative at higher temperatures, or become less insulative when it gets a little wet from sweat, to do that kind of temperature regulation. The first one seems unlikely, and the exact opposite of the second one is often claimed: Wool absorbs the water and retains insulation, and does in fact give off warmth as it does that.
>>
>>2500872
Honestly I don't really understand it myself. I just know that I feel a lot more comfortable wearing wool compared to polyester or cotton (itching aside).

I recently swapped my bed quilt out with a wool blanket and I've been sleeping like a baby instead of waking up every time the heater turns on or off due to having too much or not enough blanket coverage.
>>
>>2497169
Who's tried any of those powered heated jackets? I'm interested but kinda wondering if they are safe. Like decent temp gauges to cut off heat.
>>
>>2500872
>>2500876
i unironically think the phoenomena is just people comparing different thicknesses of textile and then ascribing the difference to the material the textile is made of.
i have a thick merino shirt and a thick polyester shirt that are both about the same warmth and decently similar weave patterns. both are unwearable while active until like -10 to -20 out.
the main difference between them is the polyester one feels plasticky and the wool one feels itchy. hand feel is the only major difference i notice.
>>
>>2500892
the new generation of them are based.
older ones used to suck.
they're very bad for hiking but very good for working outdoors if you do construction or forestry or anything like that in the winter. good for hunting too imo.
>>
>Like decent temp gauges to cut off heat.
nah theres no way they're putting a decent thermostat in those fuckers.
if it gets too hot turn it off.
>>
>>2497169
Why is arcteryx stuff so expensive?
What more do they offer compared to more budget brands or milsurp?
>>
>>2500737
>dwr is shit in general, impermeable layer + mechanical venting is far better.
what are good impermeable layers then? TY for other advice
>>
>>2500854
>the one that wicks will keep you much warmer.
>what is evaporative heat loss
>>
>>2501032
Are you suggesting that walking around in damp clothes all day after sweating is warmer than having dry clothes? I swear some of you kids have never left your mommy's basement. The level of ignorance on topics like these really makes it apparent.
>>
Gonna try the frogg toggs, ty anon for recs
>>
>>2501119
>Are you suggesting that walking around in damp clothes all day after sweating is warmer than having dry clothes?
Nope, I didn’t suggest that at all.
Learn some reading comprehension or stop building so many strawmen in your head.
Of course having damp clothes will make you colder than dry clothes, that’s a result of convective cooling.
It’s ironic you call others ignorant while being ignorant to the different types of cooling and heat loss.
In winter, you shouldn’t be sweating.
If you are sweating then you are over insulated
>>
>>2501209
Then what the fuck was the point of your reply if you're not disagreeing with me?
>>
>>2500913
the main gimmick behind arcteryx is the laminated construction. which makes them a lot lighter and more packable compared to something fully stitch constructed. its traded off in cost and shorter lifespan.
as you do more extreme things outdoors your priorities shift from how long your jacket lasts to how well does it perform the task. i'm not a fan of arcteryx but that's the mentality behind why milsurp is not suited for a lot of peoples' needs.
also despite your milsurp jacket being made of "gore-tex" and the fancy arcteryx one on the shelf also being made of "gore-tex", gore tex is more of a brand than a material, there's a wide range in quality it can be. a jacket made of shakedry is pretty incomparable to your typical milsurp goretex jacket.
>>
>>2501227
Get a VBL.
No evaporative cooling, and no damp outer layers.
If you’re sweating too much, just take off some insulation
>>
File: 1669059943321.jpg (179 KB, 1200x1600)
179 KB
179 KB JPG
>>2501162
based
if you wind up with the combo pack (its often cheaper than the jacket alone) be sure to convert the useless pants they come with into a rain skirt. the pants tear the first time you wear them.
i did mine like picrel but duct taped up the middle where its cut. its shockingly useful.
>>
>>2501240
What type of task makes the need for uber expensive gear arise?
>>
>>2501318
mountaineering would be the main driving force behind innovation the last century or so in this industry. if you need to ask that question just spend a day and read about how mountaineering evolved over the 20th century. each technological advancement like rubber outsoles and synthetic clothing directly led to more extreme summits previously unimaginable. a good example would be how vibram soles were invented because vitale bramani lost 5 or 6 guys on an expedition due to what he ascribed as shitty felt and hobnail boot footwear.
>>
>>2499595
OR, Mountain Hardware
>>
>>2497492
Froggtoggs get ripped to absolute shit so fast
>>
>>2501505
yeah they tear if you sneeze on them. sadly pretty much all rain solutions that aren't dwr faced and reasonable to hike in have the same problem. the anon who originally wrote the rain gear copypasta said he swears by the thinner variants of columbia's outdry because its the most durable of the bunch. i've been meaning to check it out, whenever i find a jacket on sale.
>>
File: 114179230324.jpg (1.45 MB, 1378x1200)
1.45 MB
1.45 MB JPG
how you will look
>>
You must buy LeBrand™ and make sure the logo is as visible as possible otherwise all the other girls at high-school will make fun of you for being poor. When in doubt, make yet another post about it. You can't just go to your local Decathlon or Walmart or village market and get the second-cheapest one that fits you because what if you don't get the right® one? What if the selfies you'll take of your highly demanding harsh outdoor expedition will look unappealing? A serious debate of at least 150+ replies must be made on such matters. Our grandparents never got anything done because they had no such opportunities of rumination.

Once you are done with polar fleece, you must ponder on everything else down to the socks and underwear. Your penis will shrivel up and die of embarrassment in a 10 set supermarket brand boxers. Your feet will stink much more if in the not-right® brand of cotton, the one made next to that Chinese corrugated metal shack running on child slave labor you would have bought if not asking for recommendations on what brand™ socks to buy. Don't think it's because you never crouch anymore to actually wash your feet in your stand-up modern shower thinking the water will get them, it's in fact because of the seedoils. McDonalds being a brand™ is heritage at this point and certainly more appealing than having to cook for yourself like a poor person. Cooking is good every once in a while for special recipes like Oreo cake and sauce drenched Pasta, deep fried in cheese and lard (it's healthy because it has no seed oils).
>>
File: 12320.jpg (449 KB, 872x1000)
449 KB
449 KB JPG
>>
File: 1307507997639.jpg (33 KB, 500x391)
33 KB
33 KB JPG
>>2501684
>>
>>2497184
>Fjallraven Anorak no8
Overpriced shit. My condolences.
>>
>>2501684
polar fleece is the opposite of COONSOOMER
you can buy polartec 100 jackets all day long for under $30 and most of them don't have any branding beyond the polartec tag, which is required by contract to use their textiles.
>>
>>2501756
Where
>>
>>2501756
Consuming product anon doesn't like is consOOMING. Using product he likes isn't. Simple as.
>>
>>2502129
Surp
>>2500661
I like their stuff but I've had a few things break after two seasons. I've emailed them about it and theyve sent replacements both times.

I did wonder why the watch cap felt so different from a regular wool cap. Now I know.

Is no polyester recommender concerned about wearing plastics and decreasing sperm counts or polluting the environment?
>>
>>2502159
>>2500661
merino wool beanies all suck.
if you want the good shit get bison down. its not superwash coated. its warmer and stays drier than merino wool. and its more durable than alpaca. its the best material natural or synthetic for hats and light-medium duty warm liner gloves IMO. its also good for socks but i prefer the standard plastic coated nylon blend merino still. it pills and its not cheap.
https://herdwear.net/collections/hats
https://thebuffalowoolco.com/collections/rtw-beanies-balaclavas
>>
>>2502430
two questions woolAnon:
>Ive heard bison wool pills really bad. is this true?
>How can I tell if merino is superwash or not? Is Duckworth's superwash if you know? I'm guessing no because it says hand wash only?



[Advertise on 4chan]

Delete Post: [File Only] Style:
[Disable Mobile View / Use Desktop Site]

[Enable Mobile View / Use Mobile Site]

All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective parties. Images uploaded are the responsibility of the Poster. Comments are owned by the Poster.