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File: forestservice.jpg (345 KB, 1400x891)
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The Forest Service (if they actually were competent and not 100% asleep at the wheel) would embark on a massive program to modernize and revitalize trails and access across the country. If your favorite trail requires a permit to hike - that means infrastructure is inadequate. Such trails should be widened where possible, and additional parking built.

For the life of me I cannot understand how you can have a population that doubles or triples in some areas, and they still have very limited parking, and cater to local landowners who don't want any more - instead of seizing small parcels where necessary to build in more parking. What is the point of public land if it is difficult to access with limited parking, permit requirements, and bottlenecks on narrow trails? The Forest Service is PAID to fix such issues.
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>>2400434
We get it...you're a butthurt retard. Thanks for stopping by.
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Ahhh... the great outdoors!
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>>2400451
Obviously the parking lots are built next to the trails so you can access them. I don't think there's a single trail THAT popular as to require as much parking as in your picture, but many trails have only a few spaces or sketchy dirt pull-offs and could use clearer signage, more room, and paving.
>>
Wider trails? Just go walk on some dirt/gravel logging road, anon. Foot traffic trails only need to be wide enough for foot traffic.
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>>2400451
strawberry?
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>>2400458
Unless there's traffic in both directions and it is sometimes heavy - which creates bottlenecks - so you need to build out to doubletrack. Some trails have way more users than capacity. You have to be able to easily pass people or a traffic jam will ensue.
>>
Fuck off back to the city you urbanizing ADA cripple nigger
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>>2400434
nahh, if we want to preserve wilderness and /out/ areas, they should be even harder to reach.

if you cater the forests towards the people who will actively make them worse.. don't be surprised when it happens.
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>>2400479
I don't understand how you can have no sympathy for people with different abilities than you. Also, parking and trail widening have much more to do with crowd capacity than ADA - although accessibility is a bonus.

>>2400481
mindless fearmongering - this is why many areas get abandoned that could be well loved and maintained I hate this shitty lazy boomer mindset that doing nothing is actually the REAL virtuous way...
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>>2400466
I think you're just bad at picking out good trails. Good trails aren't swarmed with people.
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My trails are narrow, rough, overgrown, and covered in dead fall. If you aren't willing to scramble this isn't your neck of the woods and trails that fit OPs criteria exist the closer you get to metropolitan areas or national parks because those are places where thse problems exist. Keep 'modernizing' nature to city/ national parking lots and let's just focus on keeping things the way they are outside them as best we can maybe?
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>>2400484
that's neither mindless fearmongering or a boomer mindset. there's a certain decorum involved with hiking/camping/outdoors. people who understand this, and know how to behave will make the extra effort to get out there.

Encouraging people from urban areas or wherever who couldn't be bothered previously to come out to the woods will 100% ruin it for everyone else. i mean you might like bluetooth speakers, litter, graffiti, theft and all the other diversity related issues, but i'll take a hard pass.

it sucks that some people are disabled and unable to make it out there as easily as everyone else, but sacrificing the qualities that make the outdoors great to accommodate them is foolish.
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>>2400434
do you want MORE overcrowding?
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>>2400484
>different abilities than you
They don't breathe fire or fly, they can't walk wtf that's not a different ability, I can also sit down.
Anyway I get people with some disabilities wanting to do /out/ stuff and I think they should do what's within their power but turning nature reserves into ADA friendly places kinda negates the point of them supposedly being unspoiled nature (which is hazardous even to the fit).
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>>2400484
Imaging ruining the forest because you want some fucking retard who can't think let alone move his fucking legs to see le great outdoors :))
Equality believers like you deserve to die for being WRONG
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File: download.jpg (7 KB, 163x310)
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Stay out of my fucking woods you city slicking moron
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>>2400492
With population growth - increased use is inevitable and just ignoring it and hoping it goes away is irresponsible.
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>>2400521
Shut the fuck up
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>>2400521
Maybe curtail the population growt... I mean immigra.. I mean invasion.
Yeah, stop the invasion and a whole slew of other problems go away. Yeah, that’s it.
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>>2400434
Fuck you OP. This is a bait post, here is your (you). Fucking faggy bastard. If you are serious, then I sincerely hope you sprain your ankle or some shit
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>>2400530
Speaking of, did you hear the Biden Administration recently approved 300,000 work visas for previously-illegal immigrants from Mexico to help "stimulate the economy" i.e fuck the job market. For reference 300k people is like adding an entire new top 50 city in the US, entirely of adults taking existing jobs.
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>>2400521
The answer to your problems is eugenics, the world needs to be fucking cleaned. All current genetic dead ends (browns and trashy whites) need to be sterilized and put on an island where they can die out. The current destruction that the excess population has had on the natural world is fucking scary. It will only get worse.
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>>2400534
Yes it's like taking the adult population of Atlanta and doubling it.
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>>2400534
absolutely disgusting.
the amount of overlap between mindless progs bitching about 'living wages' and 'housing costs' and "refugees welcome" is truly mind boggling.

can these cretinous retards not connect the fucking dots? jesus christ.
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>>2400539
I had a long discussion with this sort of person and they concluded:
>If you're losing a job to unskilled immigrants, you just suck and deserve poverty
>If you're losing skilled labor you weren't that skilled anway
>The US deserves to open its job market to all of Latin America as reparations for the CIA's drug operations under the border.
This of course neglecting to address that even if you outcompete immigrant labor they still act as a wage suppressant.
>>
>>2400548
these types never have to live with the consequences of the demographic destruction they are rooting for. juan or tyrone will not hesitate just because they consider themselves an ally.
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>>2400534
>taking existing jobs.
jobs that are not being taken by US citizens. Lets see you pretend this isnt true.
>>
>>2400530
>>2400534
>>2400536
>>2400538
>>2400539
>>2400548
>>2400577
same fag lol.
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>>2400598
>immigrants work for sub-min wage
>actual Americans don’t
>deport all immigrants
>work must get done
>job must pay actual Americans more money to attract them
>job gets done
Is it that difficult to see?
>>
>>2400605
>>immigrants work for sub-min wage
not a factual statement- especially if they are legal.
>>work must get done
right meanwhile my town is filled available jobs not being taken. Staffing shortages are rampant and greatly affect productivity. You need to leave the echo chamber and actually go /Outside
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>>2400605
>>job must pay actual Americans more money to attract them
how much $ per hour will it take you to clean my house?
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>>2400615
You can easily trade “sub-min wage” for “wage that non-immigrants won’t work for”. The argument remains the same.

If your town started offering $50 an hour for entry level positions and made that known, they would have tons of applicants. I also work somewhere where a lot of people have left and we are at ~70% capacity. The issue isn’t a shortage of manpower. If our workplaces raised the wages they would attract people. This would effect the overall cost of the service/good, yeah, but let’s not pretend like we simply MUST have immigrants or the economy won’t function.

>>2400618
I enjoy my job and wouldn’t. But let’s say 50 an hour.
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>>2400598
Let me introduce you to the economic concept of price discovery. There is no job an American "Won't do". There are only wages an American won't do a job for. In a healthy economy, this wage is determined by employers offering more money for a job until all the needed labor slots are filled. In a controlled, anti-citizen global economy, this price discovery never happens: Companies offer a wage that is not agreeable to workers, and then they say "Government, nobody wants to work!" and the government lets them bring in immnigrants to do the job instead of discovering a price for labor with American citizens.
>>
ok you dont like immigration, I get it, but how can fix up the trails

I'm tired of driving to something with a narrow muddy pullout instead of a nice paved parking lot.

You ever try doing a popular trail that has a scramble? Bottlenecks!
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>>2400534
>>2400536
>>2400539
>>2400548
>>2400577
All I get from this is Brown People Bad REEEEEE. Seems really stunted intellectually.
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>>2400633
They probably need to pay more people to maintain them. I’m sure it isn’t a popular answer, but even a program that made people pay like 5 bucks a month for trail access (as in all trails in a state or something) could go a long way towards maintenance costs and weeding out undesirables.
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>>2400624
>wouldn’t.
there you go. You will not do it so Maria has to. Thanks.
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>>2400624
>If your town started offering $50 an hour for entry level positions and made that known, they would have tons of applicants
they would also go out of business. How fucking retarded are you?
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>>2400630
>patronizing cope.
no shit sherlock. But Farmers cannot afford the wage it would take to get YOU to pick strawberries. They would go out of business.
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>>2400638
>one anon will not do this job, therefore no legal citizen would do this job

>>2400639
Do you understand how prices work, you fucking retard? If you can’t afford to hire people at the wage they’re willing to work for, you raise your prices. Sounds like you just have a shit business model.
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>>2400640
No, they wouldn’t. They would simply charge more for producing strawberries or they would pick a more profitable crop. Where does the dumbass “entitlement to cheap labor” come from?
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>>2400636
>Ignores both posts explaining how wage suppression with immigrants works.
Well, someone here is intellectually stunted. That's true.
>>2400640
See:
>>2400643
And if they simply cannot sustain their business growing strawberries because they can't pay agreeable wages, they deserve to die as a business. That's how healthy markets trim fat.
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>>2400643
>simply charge more for producing strawberries
>doesnt into price elasticity.
They would have to charge so much nobody would buy them...then out of business.
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>>2400653
And? Things go out of business. That's how healthy economies work. It's less healthy for your economy to subsidize failed business models through immigration than it is to let unprofitable models go out of business.
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>>2400645
>And if they simply cannot sustain their business growing strawberries because they can't pay agreeable wages
>can't pay agreeable wages
>agreeable
>market doesnt work on emotion
>doesnt understand basic supply and demand.
>no Strawberries for you!!
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>>2400640
they'd probably figure out ways to harvest them that is less labor intensive... or you know what?

Back in the olden days they'd have kids take time out of school to help with the harvest.
sure they might be set back a few percentage points on those super crucial standardized tests; but we wouldn't have to resort to turning middle america into a barrio.

small fucking price to pay anon, seriously. we don't need a flood of 3rd world indios shitting up our small towns just so you can get cheap produce.

>t. eastern oregon/washington native.
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>>2400659
>Nooo my heckin corporations you can't let the market operate as intended bring in more brown people I want my strawberries reee
Pathetic.
>Market doesn't run on emotion
Not only do speculative markets literally run on emotion, if you can't hire any employees because you're not paying enough, what would you consider that? It's obviously supply and demand.
>Oh these stupid idiots not wanting to pick strawberries for minimum wage, if only they knew the market didn't run on emotion, then they'd do this job!
Lol, lmao.
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>>2400658
>That's how healthy economies wor
nope. the small guys cant afford the irrational wages but the big guys can...so small guys go out of business soon a strawberry monoply by GlobolHomoCorporateMachine

Is that what you want Ted? There is a reason why predatory pricing is illegal.
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>>2400662
this is just a smoke screen for Brown People Bad.
if it was Norwegians you'd be all for it.
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>>2400637
>a program that made people pay like 5 bucks a month for trail access

they have annual passes for state parks and things like that in some states

but I think the solution is to a) increase the budget to hire younger flesh but also b) monitor spending to ensure they aren't just pocketing it and skipping the work

I don't think taxing trail users directly is the right answer to overuse. I think expanded parking and trail widths could also ease permitting requirements. They could literally build some fucking wooden or steel stairs on half dome @ yosemite if they wanted to so more ppl could do it.
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>>2400663
>speculative markets literally run on emotion,
irrelevant. wage markets are not speculative
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>>2400667
Are we, uh, pretending that the average Norwegian immigrant shits up the place as much as the average Indian immigrant?
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>>2400668
>They could literally build some fucking wooden or steel stairs on half dome @ yosemite if they wanted to so more ppl could do it.
I hope this is bait.
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>>2400667
Indios are bad in huge numbers yes. Not him btw
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>>2400671
Are you saying the ppl who made the fucking hoover dam can't build a sit of stairs so more ppl can do the hike per hour? Also anon said the better view is from across from half dome anyways.

I LOATHE restrictive permitting requirements - if you need a permit to do the hike the problem is trail and parking capacity
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>>2400670
so it is about Brown people. got it thanks. lol.
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>>2400675
>can
Yes
>should
Doubt

>trail and capacity
What if the trail is fragile? Do you concede there is a point at which the trail experience becomes ruined with a certain level of people? If so, how do else do we throttle entrance? Or is a literal Disneyland line through a 4 mile trail good?
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>>2400677
You’re the one who brought it up. Everyone before you said immigrants. You just assumed it was Juan Carlos and not Sven Karlssen picking berries.
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>>2400677
>capitalizing brown
kek
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>>2400678
ok just clear that you ARE admitting it is in fact feasible

>doubt

WRONG

you could make wide ass stairs

>What if the trail is fragile?

what if almost every inch of American land has been logged and forest fire'd for hundreds of years. You can be careful, sure, but what you want is NO improvements whatsoever.

> Do you concede there is a point at which the trail experience becomes ruined with a certain level of people?

no because I think you can have redundancies - redundancies are key - if there are TWO main highways in or out of a city vs one - which situation is gonna be worse with traffic?

I just know to expect tons of people at popular tourist stuff and honestly it doesn't bother me so much unless they are loud. Depends where you are really as to how loud ppl are.

I don't think we should throttle entrance. I think we should add COMPETITION by building multiple scenic spots into an area. Overlooks and trails and parking are not THAT hard to build. They did it in the 1930s like crazy with the CCC and they just let it go to shit since then and it is sad.

>Or is a literal Disneyland line through a 4 mile trail good?

the whole point of trails is you can have multiple paths through and around areas to disperse people
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>>2400682
Anon, I think you’re just talking past me. And if you don’t think trail overcrowding is an issue at all the discussion is pointless.
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>>2400679
>You’re the one who brought it up
>3rd world indios shitting

>>2400680
>Brown People Bad
boogeymen are people too.
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>>2400683
It's an issue but your point is the solution is just to do nothing and add burdensome permitting processes to popular areas. My point is you can build in OTHER PLACES TO GO and people will do it. Trails can be mazes of different things so people have lots of options. You can build new easy trails for grandma and add roadside overlooks with proper parking and picnic tables etc.

Give people lots of different things to do and they won't all be at the same place.
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>>2400534
Illegals here will never slow down. Like ever. It will only slow down when Latin America has a high standard of living and low birth rate.
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>>2400667
yes, brown people who don't share our language, values, culture, or ability to assimilate are bad overall for a nation. Civnats are so incredibly wrong it's scary. almost as scary as the fact the only way to demonstrably show just how wrong and stupid they are, it'll be too late.

where do you live btw? what's the ethnic composition? you sound like one of those ivory tower types who is all about mass immigration because you loooove authentic street food, and you can't imagine white hands making a taco. or your so muttified you don't know how much better a homogenous, high-trust community is to your 'diverse' shithole.
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>>2400685
Capitalizing brown tells everyone you’re a woke retard. No, you aren’t a person.
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>>2400682
Not that anon, but the point is that most natural beauty spots should be something you work for, the point is to exclude people. The solution is not to increase capacity but to reduce the population that wants to use it. This can be done by directly reducing the population, or making it more strenuous, dangerous or more expensive. All of these are factors which deter people from doing things. If you want to talk about how overcrowding is bad, I am sure the area your major city was in was full of natural resources, rivers and beauty 500 years ago now go downtown without homeless druggies asking your for money.

Expanding trail corridor past singletrack is a bad thing. Sure some areas of the forest should be logged and exploited for resources but the wild areas should stay as wild as possible
>think wilderness areas
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>>2400697
>but to reduce the population that wants to use it

that isn't going to work you are just creating a nightmare where rich ppl can buy access to trails and poor have to do a lottery or book the trail a year in advance

excluding ppl is not actually fixing the situation at all
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>>2400699
i think the point anon was trying to make (and forgive me if i get this wrong) is that at its root access to nature is a very scarce good. In that the value of a wild area is inversely proportional to the number of people visiting it. by increasing access (largely to people who had no prior interest in it -- means by definition you'll be attracting people who don't really care about nature in the first place) serves to diminish the value of it.

there's always going to be hyper popular spots (yosemite, zion, parts of yellowstone, etc) -- fine, make those easy as fuck to get to, it doesn't matter -- they're already basically lost. but the actual backcountry/wilderness areas should not cater to the masses; the status quo works just fine in that department.
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>>2400701
I think you are exaggerating the scarcity because you want it all to yourself and that's realistically impossible. You are just letting them get away with shitty management and not doing anything and it makes me sad.

Wild area with 5 different well maintained trails, each with own parking areas, will be much better than one big parking area and everyone has to start at the same place.

>but the actual backcountry/wilderness areas should not cater to the masses

that's where I disagree - I think there's tons of disused old logging roads and abandoned trails that could be turned back into usable trails - I think exercise is really crucial and we need to encourage it to more people
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>>2400699
I never said anything about a lottery system that would be horrible. Also my idea of making it more expensive would be like a fishing/hunting license $100 a year, fees go to maintaing the parks/trails or whatever else needs fixing.
Making physical activities more demanding and dangerous would keep out those who don't want to go very much. For making trails more difficult I would just put trailheads in farther away locations instead of making them 0.5 miles from the main view/destination. That and not spending as much on maintanence on the roads to get to the trailhead. Basically excluding those who are not fit or do not want to go very much. The goal for me is to encourage behavior known as "balking" where people decide to not do something due to some barrier to entry. Keeping people from entering the parking lot/area entirely. Inclusion of others in activities is cool and all but more people outdoors is the antithesis of keeping places natural
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>>2400705
Getting people to exercise is not the point of /out/. If that’s the goal, pay for treadmills. People should only be /out/ on trails if they appreciate it because then they’re less likely to shit it up. Trying to incentivize further use of a trail by people who only see it as muh 3.7 miles walked today is a terrible idea.
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>>2400705
what's with the 'need' to get people outdoors? let them make their own decision.

and i think the scarcity angle went over your head. of course there's tons of land, and tons of logging roads (hell, i live on one!) It's more to the point that being in the wilderness and being around people are mutually exclusive. 200 hikers on a 'wilderness' trail completely obliterate the wild aspect of it.

>>2400710
this, 100% -- much better put than my post.
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>>2400710
This poster is correct.
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>>2400709
Are you rich? 100 dollars a year? Why not 1000 dollars per trail per day? Real solitude then.

>>2400710
US is almost half obese at this point. Exercise is VERY important.

>>2400711
It's not a need. They already are and they can either park on the road and piss off the landowners or you can build proper sized parking areas.
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>>2400715
$100 a year is very reasonable for those who actually go outdoors, it is also about the same cost as an out of state fishing license. And much less than the gas to actually get there. Licenses to use natural resources are common for off-road use, hunting and fishing. Why not for outdoor access or trail access?
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>>2400434
>widened
>trail
Pick one.
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>>2400721
the whole point of the outdoors is to be affordable and healthy - if low income families are left out - that's not fulfilling the mission of public lands

if they need more money - the money must come from the state

>it is also about the same cost as an out of state fishing license.

traditionally pedestrian access in most areas has been less restricted and taxed than sportsman access and I don't think that should change

why the fuck does everyone here want pay per use trails instead of building more trails and parking?
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>>2400727
>why does everyone here want the tiniest bit of personal investment into keeping /out/ enjoyable when we could just pave over every trail with cement and make ten thousand parking slots at your local trail?
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>>2400727
No, the whole point of outdoors isn't exactly to be healthy. If that was the only reason, people would go to their gym 10 minutes away to become healthy than drive a few hours to their nearest national park/forest/state park. Not the same guy you replied to.
>>
>>2400728
>let's just charge money and not fix the problem and wait till it gets worse
>>
>>2400727
>if they need more money - the money must come from the state
no.
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>>2400732
People have already proposed solutions, you just don’t like them. You’ve already conceded that you don’t even believe trail overcrowding is an issue, so why should anyone take your suggestions to “increase access” as anything positive?
>>
>>2400727
The problem is that you think the purpose of the outdoors is to encheap and healthy. I think the outdoors should be isolated
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>>2400727
Do you have literally any evidence that lack of parking at trailheads is what deters people from using them if they’re sincerely motivated? I’ve been to so many trails where parking just keeps backing up further along the road. People who want to use the trail use it. Parking isn’t an issue that stops people.

During Covid I went to a NP that closed one of their parking lots and added a few miles of walking down a paved road to start the actual trail. I did it because I wanted to be on the trail. I didn’t throw up my hands and go home because I had to walk a bit farther, which is what you apparently believe happens.
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>>2400740
I'm saying we clearly need more/better parking lots for some popular trails. It's not about deterring people - it's about accommodating them. I think you and I view the function of public land differently. You want it to be a playground for the rich.

Most people won't hike extra miles to do a trail. Trails should be easily accessible and well maintained.
>>
>>2400743
the rich?
how did you divine that from his post?

i know that's lefty_trash_talking_point_01, but c'mon man, it's not an argument with a universal adapter.
>>
>>2400743
Yeah I have no idea where you got anything about money from my post dude. That shit is all free.
>>
>>2400744
most people are not willing to pay 100 dollars a year to access a park and just would avoid it if that were the case
>>
>>2400752
>that means it's working.

again anon, i don't think you understand the difference between a city park or whatever, where there's throngs of people going out for a walk. vs actual hiking trails, where the entire fucking point is to be able to go out in nature and not hear jamal's wireles speakers, or seeing copious amounts of litter.

the wilderness exists for its own sake, it doesn't take a city slicking do-gooder to try to optimize it so pooor oppressed POCS and whoever else can shit it all up -- that will unequivocally ruin it.

fuck off with the social engineering
>>
>>2400755
If you want to reduce litter - place more trash cans and ensure someone picks it up regularly - parks are not free to maintain and should be adequately funded for the population they serve
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>>2400756
>he thinks lack of trash cans is what compels people to litter
Fucking delusional.
>>
>>2400756
yes, by this logic we should replace all the parking spots at safeway with corrals for the shopping carts, right?
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>>2400757
ok then you need to pay people to pick up trash - the issue is not blaming the people who do it - but fixing it
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>>2400758
my grocery store got rid of the cuck carts and I miss them a lot and hate carrying a basket - it's kinda narrow in there and the cuck cart was the perfect size

fuck you covid or whatever
>>
>>2400760
dude. just stop posting.
you're honestly expecting people on /out/ to support increased access to parks while you simultaneously admit that people should not be held accountable for littering?

just how much of a flaming liberal are you anon?
>>
>>2400752
To be fair, I think most Americans could cut down on some unnecessary costs in their lifestyle, fast food, candy bars, buying a new car every year, going to concerts, or even not using as much AC in their house which contributes to 50% roughly of your electric bill.
>>
>>2400760
This has to be a troll.
>>
>>2400764
I dont think you really CAN hold people accountable for littering. All you can do it clean it up. Do you want trailcams everywhere and more surveillance? Forest jannies on every trail?

It's like building toll lanes when you need to just outright expand the highway. It's a band aid and does nothing to fix what's causing the problem and it will only kick the can down the road.
>>
>>2400795
People who litter should be executed. It would greatly desentivize littering.
>>
>>2400802
Based
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>>2400451
This but unironically.
>>
Let's fill in the grand canyon with concrete and make it a giant parking lot. That way more people can visit and it will be handicap accessible. This will help preserve the grand canyon too because more people will be able to see it.
>>
>>2400814
Funny you say that, I went last year and I’m pretty sure you can park within .2 mi of the rim and take a power scooter the rest of the way.
>>
>>2400795
Most people that I've seen litter are Chinese and Indian tourists groups. I worked as a trail guide at PR for a few summers and the rangers were completely sick of it. I would watch a tourist bus pull up to the one spot with a view and thirty Chinese tourists walk out and throw their trash on the ground, rangers basically followed them around picking up trash until they left and then another group took their place and so on for the entire day. Littering is a Chinese culture thing and no amount of trash cans can get them from ruining the globe.
Look up the journal "The Problem of Plastic Waste in China" if you want to learn more.
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>>2400819
You're talking about the south rim, right? Please tell me they didn't do that to the north rim
>>
>>2400814
I know you are memeing but I do think they could pave a road down to the bottom of the canyon for disabled access.

I don't think adding a couple of extra parking spaces is really the end of the world. And you admit people just park on the road if they don't.
>>
>>2400822
Disabled people can already easily access the bottom of the canyon. They just need to roll out to the ledge.
>>
>>2400688
>reeeeeeee I fear people different than me
Its mental midgets like you that always go postal in the end.


>where do you live btw?
In a highly homegnous community that doesnt have enough labor. Even fucking McDonalds is offering $25 an hour and cant find enough people to work.

Please take your assumptions and small mind and fuck off.
>>
>>2400692
>hurrdurr
imagine thinking this was a valid point.
>>
>>2400831
Pointing out that (You) are a woke retard who doesn’t even suffer under the misery of your own imported hordes >>2400830
is always a valid point. Kys.
>>
>>2400830
Yeah because we really need more fry cooks and not tradespeople or engineers/doctors.
>>
>>2400830
you just proved my point anon.
go move to the barrio and then you can have all the DELICIOUS TACOS AND DIVERSITY you want!!!!!
>>
>>2400831
You post this in every thread. You're one of those posters that I see, that is vaguely amusing the first time, but also kind of weird and cringey. And then, I see you again, and again, and I realize you're just weird.
>>
>>2400521
you are correct and if the money isn't spent now to correct the problems and deficiencies the eventual solutions are going to be way worse for users.
>>
>>2400802
>>2400803
>>2400820
just pick up the shit and organize to pick up shit you see. there is far more trash hidden under a thin layer of dirt than you will ever be able to clean unless you start digging. Quite literally the trash will blow in from the sky if you think it is pristine.
>>
>>2400837
>hasnt the foggiest clue
>doesnt realize the capitalization was to trigger retards
>gets triggered
> retardation confirmed.
Thanks for playing!
>>
>>2400852
same deal in the trades. Plummers, construction contracters, mechanics....all cannot find enough people. Turning away business because they just dont have the resources. Unemloyment at historical lows and business' simply cannot find enough workers.
>>
>>2400869
>claims he had a point
>doesnt realize he didnt
fucking retards. I am so tired of you goddmaned fucking retards.
>>
>>2401246
>posts something retarded
>gets called a retard
>I was only pretending
>>
>>2401253
>seething over a capitalized letter.
>confirms smooth brained retardation.
>continues losing at life.
>>
>>2401251
does it need to be spelled out for mommy's special little man?
>want immigration
>craaaave authentic food
>need brown hands to prepare it
>doesn't have to live with the consequences

you are a child, a dumb, overly socialized little child. i hope to god you never are in a position of actual authority or consequence.
you naïve little child.
>>
>>2401264
>>want immigration
>>craaaave authentic food
>>need brown hands to prepare it
>>doesn't have to live with the consequences

Shut the fuck up you stupid cunt. Literally Never said anyone these things. Its your stunted intellect and moral depravity that allows you to think blowing polTard dog whistles are actually a relevant point.

You are very stupid person who is trapped in dogma of a failed paradigm. I would say never have children but thats a given anyways lol.
>>
>>2401272
the flak is always heaviest over the target anon, i'm exactly right, aren't i? you civnat shitbags are all so predictable -- you think you're taking a moral principled stance, but all you're doing is selling your country and community down the tubes for cheap labor and super mega authentic ethnic food.

give it some time, and as your 'homogenous' community descends into a shithole barrio you'll see the error of your ways. Or you'll move to idaho or montana and then push for the same policies that wrecked wherever you live now.
>>
>>2401277
>i'm exactly right, aren't i?
No. You are never right. If you were not so fucking stupid you would have realized that by now. One day you might figure it out.
>>
>>2401278
>gets btfod
>no u
okay kiddo, your ovaltine and snacks are ready.
>>
>>2401282
>>gets btfod
lol. Are you always this delusional? And you wonder why people point and laugh at you...
>>
>>2401284
Anon, you already admitted you live in a homogeneous community and don’t even have to deal with the third world hordes you love importing. No one cares what you think.
>>
>>2401289
>hurrdurr
>cares enough to reply lol
You are the one REEEEEing about Brown people, Indios, Hordes and the third World. I just want enough workers to make the economy function. You get all twisted in your retarded narratives, exposing your weak intellect and moral depravity in the process and yet are too fucking stupid to realize just how anachronistic your fever dreams really are. Retards like you just dont have the intellectual capacity to move on from caveman mentality.
>>
>>2401295
>words words words
>no I NEED more brown people here for the economy!!!
>>
>>2401300
>gets BTFO
>replies with meme
You PolTards are all so predictable.
>>
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>>2401295
Fuck your economy.
>>
>>2401305
>thinks posting a tranny is the answer.
You will never be a woman but you trannies should really go outside.
>>
>>2401300
>REEEEEEEE brown people bad
thats basically the gist of your world view. No wonder you are alone. I suggest staying away from grocery stores predominantly used by brown people.
>>
>>2401308
My penis is extremely feminine.
>>
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>>2401310
>every brown country is shit
>every brown neighborhood filled with trash and crime
>brown people good
Lmao get a life.
>>
>>2401310
What in the US has been improved by importing brown people?
>>
>>2401312
>hurrdurrr brown people
>spews lies hoping nobody notices
At least you admit you are a morally depraved, intellectually stunted retard. Thanks for being honest!
>>
>>2401311
it is ok for men to act feminine
>>
>>2401310
What does this have to do with /out/, lad?
>>
>>2401314
>lies
You are a faggot and I hope you get raped by a nigger.
>>
>>2401317
>confirms he's morally bankrupt
thanks!
>>
>>2401305
murderous trannies are never the answer
>>
>>2401314
>hurrdurrr
Why do you inevitably post this in every thread?
>>
>>2401321
Because its an apt representation of mental accuity of the poster. Thats whats drooling idiots sound like.
>>
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>>2401318
>Noooo he doesn't subscribe to my jewish slave morality
>>
>>2401324
>thinks the only reason countries are on the list is because of the color of their skin.

More confirmation. Holy shit you are stupid.
>>
>>2401323
In every thread? Anon...if everywhere you go it smells like shit, then you need to check your own shoes.
>>
>>2401314
>heh, I may have gotten raped by a bunch of brown people but at least I was never racist
>>
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>>2401328
>NOOOOO WHITE PEOPLE MAKE BROWNS KILL EACH OTHER.
What a brainlet. Its weird that anywhere you find brown people you find murder. What a cohencidence!
>>
>>2401329
>irrelevant whining
>In every thread?
shut the fuck up. I rarely post and certainly not in "every" thread. Surely, you are not so stupid as to think only one person on the internet uses that apt description?
>>
>>2401331
>i am sure its because the the color of their skin and not a myriad of other factors.
and you wonder why people tell you are a fucking retard. Keep up the good work lol
>>
>>2401335
>purely socioeconomic factors
>>
>>2401328
>"C-c-correlation doesn't equal causation goys"
>Cannot find a single brown country, county, or even city where browns achieve intellectually to the level of their Caucasian and Asian peers
>Cannot find a single country, county, or even city where browns commit less crimes then Asian or Caucasian peers.

This must be the white man's fault.
>>
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>>2401335
>DEM ECONOMIC FACTORS
TYRONE JUS NEEDED DEM PROGRAMS. HE WUZ A GUD BOI HE DINDU NUFFIN HOW HE SUPPOSED 2 GET PENCILS FO SCHOOL AND SHIEEEEET.
>>
>>2401338
>seething cuz losing
>resorts to yelling nonsensical gibberish.
lol.
>>
>>2401339
only gibberish because of that homogenous and high trust community you'd like to see spoiled for street tacos and diversity

you'll understand it in a few years, just need a few more of those socially conscious section 8 units to go up (hopefully next door to you)
>>
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>>2401339
>RACE IS JUST SKIN COLOR
Why do you deny evolution? Are you an anti-science schizo?
>>
>>2401339
You’ve yet to provide literally any evidence that what is he saying is incorrect, or even address >>2401313

You’re just crying about muh racism kek
>>
can't we talk about trail maintenance
>>
>>2401347
honestly no, we're too busy bullying the leftist tourist who wandered in here from reddit by mistake.

we'll continue to do so until the jannies shut this shit-show down. :)
>>
>>2401347
Can you walk on it? Trails maintenanced.
>>
>>2400434
>seizing small parcels
no
>>
>>2401354
let's not tell the jannies and just organically redirect to on-topic conversation!

>>2401357
I mean do you consider wash-outs that are very dangerous walkable? It's a matter of degrees - not yes or no.
>>
>>2401340
>post memes
>thinks thats an argument
please continue!
>>
>>2401343
>You’re just crying about muh racism
you seem to be the one crying about lol. Im just laughing at you...
>>
>>2401332
Anon...if everywhere you go it smells like shit, then you need to check your own shoes.
>>
>>2401369
It’s been damn near five hours and you still can’t come up with a way more brown people have improved America. Nice.
>>
>>2401444
>racism is bad, okay?
>facts that disagree with me are racist too
>it's just bad, okay?
>and diversity is our greatest strength
>i don't know why, it just is? okay. god you chuds are dense

the mental gymnastics lefties need to employ in order to prop up their views are pretty impressive desu.
>>
>>2401364
To be honest, there's a lot the government does. But a lot of run of the mill stuff really should be handled by local city and independent organizations
Volunteers, ultimately, have always been the most important factor in preserving our wilderness, and I hate giving the government yet one more thing to do ineffectually just to watch them fuck it up.
>>
>>2401481
but just saying "let volunteers do it" means nothing in the end

it won't get done, the trails will be abandoned except for the select few that are easiest to access, provide big views, a big waterfall, etc.

There are no "cities" near many national forests and "independent organizations" are usually private and want to a) charge money or b) just abandon it and let the animals have it (nature conservancy)

they need to actually commit to fixing up trails and resolving parking/property issues instead of just letting it all be

Wilderness is, in my mind, fucking retarded because it bans power tools to maintain the trails, ensuring they will be fucked and abandoned if they are not popular backpacking routes.

I love the lesser trails and I don't want to see them abandoned. Normies are fine with "muh appalachian" trail but I want weird nowhere alternative trails.
>>
>>2401505
Here's a thought. How about you put out flyers, organize some volunteers, solicit donations, and do some work instead of relying on big daddy government to jerk you off every time something is difficult and mildly inconvenient.
You know you can be the volunteer right? It's not just some ethereal *them* or *the government*
You got two arms, two legs, a desire to see something done and hopefully half a brain. So YOU go do it. How about that?
>>
>>2401295
You're wrong. Importing endless amount of workers from shit-tier countries is extremely shortsighted.
>>
>>2401670
Because that's incredibly ineffective. They are fucking paid to manage public lands and barely do it. I hope when boomers die this will get better.
>>
>>2401703
Ah. So what you mean is *You* are incredibly ineffective. In fact, you're less effective than the federal government.
Astounding. I think that qualifies you for disability.
>>
>>2401703
>I hope when boomers die it will get better
Dude if you think millenials are capable of doing it idk what to tell you lmao
>t. Born 1992
>>
>>2400434
Please kill yourself.
>>
>>2401767
I do think they are capable. I think lots of people have the experience of hiking on public lands and thinking, wow this is a great area but access and parking are minimal and the trails themselves haven't been maintained well in years. This place could really be something with some tender love and care...
>>
They should dynamite the parking lots at the summit of Mt. Washington. Close the road to recreational traffic and perhaps even shut down the train. Hiking up and being greeted by chinks, fatso landwhales and the smell of exhaust is an affront to god.
>>
>>2402712
it's called public land because anyone can be there
>>
>>2403002
Fatties aren't people.
>>
>>2403007
what if they exercise and diet and are working hard to lose weight? If most of the population is overweight - outdoor facilities are essentially medical facilities for rehabilitation and on that basis alone low income folks should have access to them. A healthy populace is a productive populace.
>>
>>2403014
We've been over this.

See >>2400710
>>
>>2403020
Treadmills suck cuz ur cooped up inside. People will enjoy exercising more if they do it outside.

The outdoors IS for exercise.
>>
>>2400434
Are you aware that nature trails are exempt from the ADA?
>>
>>2400434
Just create more trails. Spread people out. Everyone's happy
>>
>>2403417
My point is, for the most part, you don't have to. I think trail creation is great for short loops for families and ADA-compliant trails

>>2403366
no shit ADA is toothless mostly - doesn't mean there shouldn't be trails for all skill levels available

but back to my point, there's HUNDREDS if not more of abandoned logging roads/hiking trails that used to be traversable by pedestrians or vehicles and just need to be re-graded and fixed up to be made usable. Beyond just making these trails walkable, many of them have access issues wher portions of the trail abut private land so the real reason they stopped being used is because neighboring landowners wanted that way (and many of the trails don't lead to big views or anything that would attract a lot of visitors).

As far as I can tell the "peak" of hiking and backpacking seems to be 1950s-1980s and then after that a lot of trails fell out of use. But like, if you open a USGS topo map there's TONS of things marked as trails that are no longer officially maintained but COULD be once again if they really cared.
>>
>>2403164
No. I don't care if you think treadmills suck. /out/ is not for exercise. It is for /out/. You can use it for exercise, but it should never be modified just so more people can "exercise" on it when we are perfectly capable of giving away treadmills (giving people an ability to exercise) without shitting up trails. Really not my fucking problem if you don't like treadmills. Lose weight and hit the trail. Trail isn't made to accommodate lardasses.
>>
>>2403633
Based
>>
>>2400615
The biggest cause of illegal immigration is overstaying a work visa, anon. While they may be legal, they won’t always be and a lot stay, and employers take advantage of this by paying them less. Who are they gonna report their employers to, the police who will just deport them? So no one speaks up but it essentially fucks over the minimum wage. I know this because I’ve seen it happen to plenty of friends, family, and people all around, especially in Chicago and milwaukee
>>
>>2403704
so you are saying - import lots more illegals - but make them actually work for it by fixing up all the shitty abandoned trails?
>>
>>2400685
They’re brown and destroying the job market, what’s not to hate
>>
>>2400830
Damn that’s crazy you call them all mental midgets while you live in a literal echo chamber. Fuck off lmao
>>
>>2403705
No Im saying fuck your trails you dumb bitch. How about you fucking crawl on them, maybe that’ll widen it you fucking whale
>>
>>2403706
Based
>>
>>2401295
>I just want enough workers to make the economy function.
Why would you care more about some made up metric than your own life?
>>
out is for exercise
>>
>>2403753
>some made up metric
>real life is made up

I cant find enough workers to staff my landscaping business. I am losing business, losing money because retarded zoomers dont want to work muchless work hard. It didnt use to be this way.
>>
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>>2400630
>There is no job an American "Won't do".
>>
>>2404943
Have you tried offering them more money?
>>
>>2405127
See: The next sentence, you mongoloid.
>>2404943
My last job was $39 an hour. I will pack up and skip town to landscape for you if you can do $40/hour.
>>
>>2405231
Of course he hasn’t, he is a delusional boomer who thinks inflation doesn’t exist.
>>
>>2405247
w-who do you think occupies most senior paid positions within the forest service?



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