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File: IMG_20210610_022044.jpg (292 KB, 1080x2022)
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Thread to discuss, recommend and shit on gear.
Just bought pic related, with the 3L bladder, for my first real camping backpack. What really sold me on it is the lid that converts to a daypack. Seems handy if you're gonna be in an area for a few days and just need something to carry while scouting the area.
>>
I want to camp in the wild (which is forbidden here) and don't want to be seen. There's not much forest between frequently travelled pathways. I'm toying with the idea of getting a camouflage net to deflect the structure of my tarp setup a bit. My tarp is coyote brown and will be placed in woodland. Is this overkill? How to stealth camp when people could be in line of sight?
>>
>>2135650
look at snugpak gear
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>>2135655
Isn't a camo net too much LARP? How to stealth camp without LARPing?
>>
>>2135644
Is 60L pretty average for something like a week long hike? I know it depends on what you pack and in turn that depends on how resourceful you are.
>the more knowledge you pack the lighter your load will be
kind of thing
>>
>>2135664
using a product designed to achieve your goals isn't larp
>>
>>2135665
Some through-hikers use 40L packs. So 60L is definitively enough if you mean that by "average".
>>
>>2135664
>How to stealth camp without LARPing?
It's not larping if there's actually real negative consequences to being caught.
>>
>>2135665
If you're thrifty/spend a bit of money on stuff that's compressible or ultralight, you can make 60L go a long long way. I think the goldilocks zone for a week long trek is 65-70L personally.
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Sup
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>>2135714
>no TI84
not gonna make it
>>
>>2135719
Why does he have two calculators, six knives, and 9 lighters?
>>
>>2135722
Also, why the two sawzalls?
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>>2135722
>>2135724
>>
>>2135724
>hes never had to clear trail
ngmi
>>
>>2135650
What country.
>>
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Anyone have experience with this pad?

Paria recharge xl
$85
R-value 4.7 (not ASTM verified, but in an email they said they're expecting it to fall within +-0.5)
1lb 10 oz
76x23", 4" thick

I'm a side sleeper and don't want to spend an extra $100 to save a few ounces, so it looks like a decent year-round pad. Haven't seen tons of reviews but the ones out there seem positive
>>
>>2135650
Leaves and dirt can be enough. Set up your tarp low to the ground, just enough to crawl in. If it’s not raining don’t use a tarp at all. If you want to get really autistic about it dig a fighting hole and put your tarp over it, the lower you can get to the ground the better.
>>
Someone recommend me a hatchet. Max I’d spend is $150. The less it weighs the better.
I only really fuck around Appalachia mostly if that helps.
>>
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Anyone familiar with mil-spex?
I just got the 75L heartlander from a military surplus for 100$. Very impressive. Great stitching, thick canvas, all fully rubberized everywhere, even in the little pockets. I cant find any info on the manufacturer, anyone familiar?
>>
>>2135814
>>
>>2135814
photo does not show but it has these sturdy ass rubberized pockets on each side under the molle strapping, perfect for a shovel and axe either side
>>
>>2135817
>>2135814
Cheap Chinese made mil-tec level stuff? Meh.
>>
>>2135836
yeah its not the best ever naturally, but i think it should do me for a couple days out on the road without anything breaking. I am very surprised at how comfortable it is strapped on. Where I plan to go camping its illegal to do so so the colors are not too much of a larp! lmao
>>
>>2135714
I have that headlamp.
Nitecore batteries suck.
Would recommend a Keeppower as a alternative if you don’t already have a second battery
>>
>>2135714
someone call the larp police
>>
>>2135882
Yea i have several different batteries including some expensive Klarus batteries that stopped working. Actually the few i have that still work is my nitecore battery
>>
>>2135882
Magic shine is the breast headlamp
>>
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Bought my kelty coyote 65, and for a 2 day, maybe 3 day bushcraft pack, i think its a great buy, esp when it can be found sub 150
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>>2135714
>all that kit
>3 spare mags
>no visible fire kit
>no axe
> probably 50 feet paracord

If you actually use this gear and it works for you, rock on, but i dont believe it does
That said, if this is a scouting pack where you dont INTEND to stay out, its fine
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>>2136047
Yellow bag is change of clothes
I dont actually carry all this paracord unless i plan to do a lot of shelter building
File and stone come with for tool maintenance

This is generally 2 days of gear, the food is a little less than that, but its what i had for pic

Pack fully loaded is about 50 lbs with a full water bladder
>>
>>2136050
I forgot a jacket, filter, and canteen in that pic, fuck
>>
>>2135714
> guns

Learn how to show a bow faggot
>>
>>2136060
>> guns
>Learn how to show a bow faggot

Tbf, if hes in an area where thwres dangerous animals, guns make sense, but lbe with 3 reloads, not so much
>>
>>2136049
>axe
hes got a saw. thats pretty obviously an overnighter or light 2 day set up
>>
>>2136085
Id argue an axe is more useful than a saw, if hes only going to carry 1 id pick the axe since you cant really split wood with a saw
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>>2136090
if you're going to get deep into the woods with a rifle and four mags you don't need an axe lol. Even the saw is a luxury for an overnighter, hes got a gas stove
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>>2136094
>rifle for security
>cant build fire for security

The state of k larpers
>>
>>2136090
Who goes out and splits wood. Pro tip: no one. You just pile that shit up on the fire and it burns eventually. What do you think people do when they go camping? Cut trees down and split a cord of firewood for the night?
>>
>>2136108
You split the wood into kindling big brain
>>
>>2135644
>dad gave me his old coleman 413g
>cleaned up the plate that sits underneath the burners and gave it two coats of aluminum spray paint
>looks factory
>got most of the rust off the gas generator and burners
>got the propane adapter for it
II like the idea of cooking wherever I stop when off roading in my jeep, figured I'd clean up my stove and get a cookset for it. Now I can be an "overlander" or whatever
>>
>>2136114
The real big brain just finds smaller sticks instead of carrying an 8lb axe like they’re Paul bunyon
>>
>>2136061
>>2136097
The thing below my headlamp is a ferro rod and not seen are my matches which are always in my stove bag. Also why tf would I carry an axe when I have a good sven saw (it's that red stick looking thing if you didn't know what that was) that cuts way quicker and lighter weight are you fucking retarded? You have never used a decent saw and a light weight camping axe on the same piece of wood have you? Have fun swinging your axe around while I will be cutting up wood way quicker and easier than you. What axe do you own? Do you own a saw?
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>>2136060
>t. no guns faggot
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>>2136160
Sorry meant for >>2136049
>>
>>2136060
>bow
learn how to use a spear faggot
>>
>>2136165
Based pointyboi.
>>
>>2136164
that was aggresive bro maybe u should think twice before posting something so mean on the internet.
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>>2136097
>>2136108
>>2136114
>>2136154
>>2136160
this axe bushcraft larper has clearly never backpacked in a way that has covered any distance whatsoever. Do 10 miles a day for 6 days in a row and maybe enough of your meager neurons will rub together enough to rethink the utility of a 3-4 lb axe. Speaking from experience the only time an axe is absolutely necessary is for winter camping with a wood stove (where weight doesnt matter as much bc you have a sled). Other than that its always a heavy luxury item vs something like a collapsing or folding saw
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>>2136224
are u saying a really good survival knife full tang drop point for batoning and also the folding saw would suffice?

Can you rec a good folding saw? they all look like shit for some reason. Warm regards, pissant
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>>2136225
silky gomboy is the best entry level folding saw IMO. there are several models. to your credit axes are also useful when firewood has been picked over in popular areas or if everything is soaking wet, but still not completely necessary.
>>
>>2136230
If there are still dead dry trees?
Ill look that one up. Can you reccomend a model that does not have a boutique price but can handle anything you throw at it? From shoes to hammers to bags Im just really rough on shit so I need a tough one
>>
>>2136154
>>2136224
>The real big brain just finds smaller sticks instead of carrying an 8lb axe like they’re Paul bunyon

You dont need an 8lb axe, but even a hatchet would be a good addition. My axe is only 2lbs. If were talking a backpacking kit, yeah id pack differently, but if im bushcrafting, im clearly not going to be hiking more than a few miles a day once in, most of that witthout kit
>>2136160
I carry both a saw and axe, saws are great, but axes, or atleast a hatchet make fire building much easier than batoning a fixed blade imo. I carry a 26" axe solely because i havent upgraded my axe yet, a 19" would do basically everything i need, maybe even smaller. For cutting wood to size lengthwise of course a saw is smarter, but a fire needs kindling. That said, my experience is basically all camping where im hiking in, making camp, and buikding there for x days. If i were moving every day my thoughts may be different

>>2136225
I carry a silky ultra accel
>>
What’s a solid 3-4 person waterproof tent (preferably w bathtub floor) that’s actually available somewhere?? Seems like slim pickings rn.
Help appreciated
>>
>>2136238
silky saws have great warranties if something happens BUT I have broken one once when I was careless with it and it binded in a log but my hands kept moving and bent and snapped 1/4 of the blade off. So a shorter saw vs their longer models would be more durable but less effiecient/quick at processing wood
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>>2136224
Exactly that's why i almost never bring pic related on trips. Although I own axes I don't bring them on backpacking trips at least when I'm not larping with my early 1900's kit
>>
>>2135714
>CCE camouflage
you better be french you faggot
>>
>>2135743
Luxembourg
>>
>>2135807
Which will probably pull in moisture, right? I'll leave that for the case that it is really needed then.
>>
Just ordered the 40-60 Flex Capacitor LFGGG
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>>2136454
Not french at all deal with it
>>
Is there any practical way to integrate a sawyer squeeze into a camelbak? I have a 3l camelbak bladder.
>>
>>2135671
Week long trek with dogs and fishing gear I like 70l (assuming the weather isn't fucking snow then you need bigger). If I am bringing normie friends/gf who are weak and overpack maybe even get a bigger one when you inadvertently have to carry some of their gear.
>>
>>2135714
fug i like the gun camo and the woodland anon
>>
this is a serious question, and I really don't care anyway but am curious: why do some anons buy all this milsurp backpacking gear? Some of it legit looks miserable to lug around versus a nice internal frame backpack made for backpacking. Do yyou just like the look of milsurp over other stuff? Or is it secretly super kick ass? I have been backpacking and camping for a long time and always used the normal outdoor brand stuff so am curious.
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>>2137026
sometimes the weight is worth the extra durability. On long treks through mountainous backcountry I have put lots of wear on stupid expensive lightweight gear and its very embittering. Most of the time its just people who are just getting into the outdoors and larping which is fine. Most cheap milsurp is a great way to get /out/ but ofc its worth upgrading for long, steep, and deep activity. Some modern surp is literally patagonia or arcteryx manufacture so thats part of it too.
>>
>>2137041
makes sense. the ultralight gear today just can't lost long through anytype of use just by its nature. but if the gear gets people out (while not being annoying fucking faggots) definitely go for. more than one way to enjoy the outdoors, I was just curious because i rarely see milsurp used for /out/ activities irl. see lots of it when I go shooting though, but not doing 3 day 2 night backpack trips and longer.
>>
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>River Country Trekker 1 tent

Good or Garbage?
>>
bump
>>
>>2135788
Buy it and let a nigga know. Looks solid. Just remember like 10 years ago that was top of the line tech. These young fags have no idea what we logged around on the same trails.
>>
>>2136604
Just go into the forest and pack up somewhat early the next day, its what everyone does. No need to be so stealthy, no one cares if you dont leave trash everywhere.
>>
>>2135714
Kek nice bait
>>
>>2136732
Squeeze the water into it? Why would you want to integrate it. You would be carrying dirty water in your camelbak then.
>>
>>2136723
sort your posture out
>>
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>>2135644
Instead of the bladder use 2 or 3 water bottles (generic is better, because it fits a Sawyer filter). You can me later. Firwst i thought the daypack is a gimmick, but it makes sense i think.

>>2135650
Everything dark becomes invisible at night, for example red. Line of sight is not a problem if it's dark, hearing distance is. Humans, sadly, have poor sight in the dark, but still very good hearing. Make camp at dusk, leave camp at dawn.

>>2135665
If 60 is not enough, you need to reconsider. BTW, you can always just buy a rollsack and have sleeping gear on the outside to free up space.

>>2135788
It's guaranteed not over R3. But that's ok, get a thin mat to put it on made from evazote or those cheap ones you put on a windshield in the summer. The R-values add up. Look cheap however, maybe you can get a similar Thermarest for maybe 10 or 20 more?

>>2135811
>hatchet
For what purpose does one need a lightweight hatchet?

>>2135814
It's chink shit larp ware, but sounds like properly made anyway. Should do the trick, bring a thick needle and some string if it doesn't.

>>2136047
Not bad, but drop the firearm, lardman. This isn't WarZ in burgerland, you know.

>>2136224
What he said.

>>2136723
Is this roleplay called /k/ommando?

>>2136732
Think about it. You stop at the water, fill your bladder (btw, use bottles, you will not be happy once you are two weeks from civ and your blader ruptures) and move on. Why would you integrate anything to anything?

>>2137019
That's ok, nobody says you have to pack small. But if you have the option, do it. Again, i just hang bulky stuff on the outside, if i have to.

>>2137026
It's a cheap start. If they stick to regular /out/ings they'll buy better, lighter, civilian gear.
>>
>>2136165
>spear
Learn to use a rock faggot
>>
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Thoughts on MTech double-edged knives?
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>>2135644
I just got this pack, the older green version, at the end of last summer. Used it once on an overnighter hike in. It's very comfortable and well designed, should serve you well anon.

>>2137372
Looks terrible. I'm getting into designing knives, this is my latest build, a dagger made for bushcraft.
>>
>>2137156
got it and so far it feels super comfy and packs down to a good size. If it doesn't stack up for 4 season then I'll use it with a foam pad and/or a windshield reflector

>>2137292
definitely warmer than my cheap shitty uninsulated pad so I'd honestly be satisfied with R3. Half the reason I got it was for the thickness, which is awesome so far
>>
>>2137470
not bad, did you do any grinding after heat treat? That splotchy pattern looks a bit like decarb to me
>>
>>2137544
Yeah it's decarb, not finished up yet had finals to deal with.
>>
>>2137568
what steel did you use for it?
>>
>>2135650
net camo is either noisy or heavy takes up a lot space and if people are that close to you is still gonna stick out. just find a naturally covered area with lots of bushes/trees and no trail coming right by, nature will be your cover and as long as your tarp is not a neon colour you're good.
I'm in the same situation, plan on going camping in a couple weeks and finally scouted a really nice spot in the baby forest that my city has.. its just 5 minutes walking from houses but with enough foliage and surrounded on 3 sides by water that I don't think anyone would ever come there. pic related.
>>
>>2135788
seems good I would have bought a thicker one had I known.. I now have to double layer my pad because I can't get a good sleep on it when its only 5 or 6 cm thick.
>>
where can i get a mug like this
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>>2137646
found this exact mug after <15 seconds of searching.
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>>2137680
link
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>>2137709
How do you not know how to use a search engine by now? Literally search “green wander mug”
>>
Does anyone bring a pillow? Not a “camp pillow”. More like a regular down pillow you sleep on every night. I’m thinking about starting to do this after yet another night of not being able to get /comfy/. I have like a 14lb baseweight and am seriously contemplating bringing a full sized down pillow from my bed from now on
>>
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>>2137709
>>2137670
>>
Advice for dealing with the little semi-shrub-semi-trees that dominate most of west-central florida?
>Too thin and elastic for axe
>Too thick and pulpy for machete
>Saws are the only thing that reliably work but are very slow given the extremely fibrous branches
Wat do? 'Real' trees are only thinly scattered, so it's not like I could chop down a proper pine or palmetto without it being noticed.
>>
>>2137863
What are you chopping trees down for?
>>
>>2137886
Depends;
Firewood isn't really a necessity in florida, but it's nice to be able to cook. I know there are pellet stoves but they don't seem capable of genuinely cooking with, moreso heating things up, but correct me if I'm wrong.
Other than that, I use the wood to fill in for things I didn't bring with me. Stakes, posts, poles, and so forth - I've even made some makeshift duckboard to help me walk around muddy areas.
Sometimes I don't even need the wood, but the foliage is so dense that I'm forced to remove things if I want enough space to set up a tent or hammock. It's not uncommon that there is not even 5 feet of air between two trees to utilize.
>>
Getting into longer hikes and feel like the only asshole walking around with a water bottle in hand. Is the REI Trail 25 worth the price for a daypack?
>>
>>2138074
Do you think you’ll stick with the hobby? If yes, spend 30-40 few extra bucks and get an osprey. If maybe not, then yes. For summer day hikes, I’d try to stick in the 17-22L range for a size

>>2137720
1lb 9oz for an old, full sized, down pillow I have, and fits nicely into a stuff sack. Not sure if it’s worth the weight though. It’s ultra heavy compared to the rest of the gear I own ;_;
>>
>>2138099
Already been on so many hikes that I cant imagine doing anything else every weekend. What Osprey? I dont want to go too crazy on a daypack as I imagine ill be having to buy a whole backpacking set up soon.
>>
>>2138155
I’d say the osprey talon 22, but I wouldn’t paid $130 for it. Wait til it’s 20-25% off, which happens a few times a year and get it for around $100
>>
>>2135719
>two TI-84 plus editions
This guy fucks.
>>
>>2138162
is the trail 25 a bad pick up for $80? Going on a long hike Friday and will probably need it. Not sure if I can wait for the Osprey to go on sale
>>
>>2136224
man the fuck up and start lugging that weight, stop being a pussy
>>
>>2138191
>is the trail 25 a bad pick up for $80?
Its certsinly a good bag, but a 25l is a pretty small bag by my standards, qnd at that size, almost any bag you have will hold up
>>
>>2137636
>>2137292
>>2137161

ty
>>
How much camping stuff can you fit in an 80L rucksack?
>>
>>2138315
Generally more than you need.
>>
>>2138315
80L worth. What kind of question is that?
>>
>>2138236
Well it would mainly be for day hikes, I just would like to carry around water and snacks
>>
>>2135644
Anyone have a 5 gallon+ water storing system that does not make your water taste like ass?
>>
>>2138509
Clean it out and sanitize it.
>>
>waiting new shit for over a month now
I can't stand it anymore, I must go out but I got no damn gear, it's frustrating. I'll waste the whole summer at this rate.
>>
>>2138509
why do you need to store your water in anything fancy? Just drink from a river or whatever as you go and store your water in a pot or something
>>
>>2138611
>why do you need to store your water in anything fancy? Just drink from a river or whatever as you go and store your water in a pot or something
Not everywhere has good water sources, ex. The river near me needs filtered and boiled to be safe and palatable
>>
>>2135644

i have one and desu i think it's really stiff, to the point that it's a pain in the ass to do anything that isn't "walk forward".
>>
>>2138509
A water jug? Why are you storing 5 gallons of water anyways?
>>
>>2137720
I have the same issue, can't stand the small or hard or blow up pillows. recently bought a latex pillow for my regular bed that is much smaller than a normal pillow but still soft enough and comfy to sleep on. contemplating buying another one and cutting it in half to make it more portable and take it with me camping. pic related
>>
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>>2135719
holy kek
>>
>>2139006
I've been camping 2-3x a month in an area that has no water supply at all. I go through about 5 gallons of water per trip. A water jug will work nicely. Simple and easy, I was overcomplicating the matter. Thank you.
>>
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Anybody have the Gregory Paragon? The main selling point for this bag is that the hipbelt and shoulder straps move independently of each other, which appeals to me since my hips are always sore. This will be my first backpacking bag either way.
Does anyone have other similar bags from Gregory (the zulu or miwok)?
>>
Im debating for friends bday gift restored axe if i should make it a bearded axe for his viking larp shit, or just a good axe but less cool looking. Then again, idk if i want to ancourage his autism. Thoughts?
>>
>>2139819
don't have that one but i've got a stout and miwok that are fantastic

can't go wrong with gregory or osprey
>>
>>2139859
Get him an omniblade
>>
>>2139579
is it heavy compared to down?
>>
Wait a minute... These capes are probably loden, aren't they?
>>
>>2137470
You should make a pantograph knife.
>>
I’m going to hike a section of the AT for about 120 miles. I need a back pack under $200 preferably. Wat should I get?
>>
So I noticed that my LARP phase is over and I now want to ditch all the Savotta gear and military sleeping bags I have. Now the ultralight phase has begun. I will probably find the middle ground between the two in roughly a year but now I have to decide what I do with the gear I own.
Do I sell it with a relatively large loss? Do I keep it and maybe don't spend that much in ultralight gear?
I'll ditch my current Them-a-rest too since its too thin for my taste.
>>
>>2140089
It's probably PVC.
>>
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>>2135644
What else do I need?
This is everything I own minus some anime figures in storage and some tools getting shipped.
Pic is everything I'm bringing with to my new place on my bike (moving from Ontario to Alberta)
What else do I need for motocamping/traveling.
I was thinking
>towel
>pills for antibiotics and stuff
>permethrin (having trouble finding this stuff)
>>
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>>2135788
>$85
It blows my mind how much they charge for these inflatable sleeping pads
Go buy a floaty
>>
Hello /out/ists, I am a retarded big city kid. I have seen a tree maybe once in my life, but I want to go camping, hiking and all that good shit. I made some gains from crypto (not a lot but I got 1,3k budget) and want to put it towards good gear so I can fuck off any time I want. Here is my list, please help me out so I don't fucking die on the first day. I will be going alone bc I have shitty normie friends.

Pack
>Osprey Aether 55
Tent
>Naturehike cloud up 1
Got some shitty boots off Amzon which suck ass so pls tell me what to buy
>Jökel sleeping Mat
>some 550 paracord
>a really cheap hammock bc I'll sleep in the tent most of the time
>KUBEY KU160 knife (wanted a simple fixed blade)
>Black diamond headlamp
>smol Water purifier pump
>Brs BRS-3000t cooking thingy and some fuel
Also socks, a tent light, solar charger, some trekking sticks, A folding saw, one of those terrorist scarfs.

After you cringed at my list pls recommend gear. Tell me what to prioritize, where I should spend more money. Is this new ultra light stuff even that good? Should I buy more old-school gear?
Also some books or maybe a good youtuber I can watch would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>only been car camping before
>been invited to camp for a week deep in the sticks
>4 hours hike in

can someone redpill me on what size pack I'd need to buy? I have a rough idea of what i'll be carrying but I don't have the experience to know if I need 30, 60, 90 liters, etc
>>
>>2140558
>for a week deep in the sticks
Fuck it, I'd go with a 90litre if you're staying innawoods for a week
>>
>>2140558
60L. If you can’t fit everything in 60L, you need to take less. No one in their right mind carries a 90L fully loaded pack for a week and has an enjoyable experience
>>
>>2140590
it sounds like it's more just getting all the shit from the car to the actual spot by the water, not necessarily hauling everything for a week straight. I just dont want to go out and buy an expensive pack that's too small or too big
>>
>>2140594
Make sure you know, if it's just hauling the stuff to the spot I (>>2140582) am gonna stick with telling you to go big. So you can bring some booze and blankets and stuff.
>>
>>2135719
>Old DeWalt
Sure u need 2 with that heavy use and all
*Rolls eyes
>>
>>2137050
Decent. Annoying to get into but good for size and price. I prefer the two pole standing one from them or Stanley
>>
>>2139859
Personalize it, clearly
>>
>>2140328
>>2140328
>>2140328
>>
>>2140789
ah fuck you
>>
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>>2137372
ah MTech ...
>>
>>2137470
whats with that fucked up choil
>>
>>2140376
Nah I mean in the context of the show. They're a green cape worn by Germans in a pseudo-olden times setting. So they are probably the infamous loden cape.
>>
>>2140089
>>2140844
thats not loden because theres no optical illusion with the wearers head
>>
What's the best ferro-rod, composition wise? I've been using the big bayite but been wondering if there isn't a higher quality, more sparky rod of the same size.
>>
>>2141016
>>2120502
>>
>>2139819
I actually have this exact pack. I like it a lot. Wish it had some more straps on the sides for compression/tying shit but I make it work with. I have the complimenting Gregory 3L water reserve and it’s great.
I did get fitted for it though, I didn’t blindly buy it online.
>>
>>
>>2136060
> bows

Learn how to show a atlatl faggot
>>
Anyone have experience with this style of external frame pack? Thinking about picking one up for 1-3 day hammock camping.
>>
>>2141585
I have a similar pack, a Kelty.
External frames are good. It might be a bit much of a pack for a 1 day hammock camp. Are you going 100% hammock, with an under quilt and rainfly and sleeping bag ?
I use mine with my two-man tent and it also holds the sleeping bag within
>>
>>2141036
Fuck off faggot. It's a legitimate question.
>>
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>>2137470
>for bushcraft
What was your design process for it?
>>
>>2136224
>Outdoors revolves around only hiking
>>
>>2141094
Is that a cork handle?
>>
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2.65 MB JPG
>>
>>2140556
ah yes this will be adequate for winter backpacking
>>
>>2138171
>not using the superior ti-84 plus CE
>>
>>2142160
get two and stack em





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