Did Ford drop the ball by not making it electric?
>>26090274Nah. They know EV is a fad pushed by environmental shilling politicians and didn't feel like following the same path as (((Dodge))).
>>26090349So Ford now cares about politics? Ford is a company interested in making money. Look at how lukewarm the reception to the new Mustang was. I guarantee it there would have been a lot more people talking about it if it had been electric.
its just a facelift the next mustang will be EV only
>>26090362in ford's eyes they have an electric mustang, the mach-e. and its not selling as well as hoped, through a combination of inability to produce enough and high sticker.
>>26090362I guarantee you like benis in butthole.
>>26090362yeah a lot more people talking about how they wont buy it
>>26090362They would be talking about it negatively like the Nu Challenger, Ford didn’t fall for the EV meme
Absolute bait thread but ill bite. They already made an aborted electric """mustang""" called the mach E Making an ice car electric does not make it a better car, it makes it an appliance like every other EV
>Feels-good safe-the-earth Electric>High-test freedom-of-movement V8Take both sides of the argument and profit. Buyer of F @ 13-14.
>>26090274Seeing a new product line go up in flames from some salty water or crap on the highway, is not usually good for a long-term image.
>>26090274I think they fucked up by making the whole dashboard a fucking screen and getting away from analog gauges like the last gen did. I know the last mustang had a nissan interior but jesus christ new infotainment shit didn't exactly help.
>>26090274can't tell if trolling but I'll give it 8/10
Why not hybrid?
>>26091682Controversy is an excellent marketing tool.
>>26092249not at the expense of the quality of your product. Besides EV people don't like muscle cars
>>26090274pretty cool they kept the Mustang as a regular gas car and made the Mach E as its own gay little thing for soccer moms and Tesla r**ittor converts.
>>26090274Rather flame out in a blaze of glory than fade away.
>>26093008Marketing is not indicative of quality at all.
>>26091918The Mach-E is an entirely different product which serves a different purpose than the Mustang coupe. There is currently no such vehicle on the market that's electric, two-door and low with sporty characteristics— at least not for huge amounts of money.
>>26090362>I guarantee it there would have been a lot more people talking about it if it had been electric.>>26092249>Controversy is an excellent marketing tool.Post car
>>26093197OP did. Dino-slaughtering, snarling, fuming v8 goodness...Now, go enjoy your electric soi mobile a a like warm cup of cocoa...
>>26090274They already make an electric Mustang
>>26090274No, they dropped the ball by not adding the 7.3 Godzilla to the lineup, I don't care that it's a truck engine, people would buy a big block Mustang
>>26093237It looks like a fucking crossoverCan you actually see anything out the windows or do you rely on 360 degree cameras and a VR headset?
>>26090362>lukewarm receptionin what fucking world faggotdodge owners are talking about switching to Ford just because they stuck to their guns and built it with a v8. Look at dodge who alienated their whole fan base. For a meme.
>>26093188>electric, two-door and low with sporty characteristicsThe reason there's no cheap 2d sporty ev is because those things are not compatible.
>>26093256It is, they're trying to spin Mustang off as its own sub-brandBesides the current ICE coupe and midsize electric crossover, we'll probably see a compact electric crossover and an electric coupe as well at some point, all under the Mustang naming scheme
>>26093237It's not the same thing. The Mach-E is bigger and puts a higher priority on passenger and cargo space and less on driving experience than the regular Mustang. It fills a different niche.
>>26093266One was already made and proved it could be done. The Tesla Roadster weighs 2,690 pounds. There's no reason an electric Mustang couldn't be the same or less weight than the ICE version is now.
>>26093308>2,690 poundsI won't get into the vehicles range
>>26093308Haha as fucking if. Maybe if it has a carbon fiber tub or some shit that makes it completely impossible to repair in a minor fender bender
>>260933082690 could be an absolute stripped out base modelwith options (and most people bought the options, they STILL make parts for them today) they usually end up at or over 3000
>>26093363>>26093828It's still really light for the amount of power you get.
>>26090362>talking about it if it had been electric.Only in an EV idiots mind would Talking=actual sales. Your Ego is going to fucking bite you in the ass Musk.
>>26094360Yes, that's how advertising works. The more exposure something has, the more likely it is to sell. Thank you for coming to marketing 101.
>>26093292exactly. It's for people that don't actually like cars
>>26090349>They know EV is a fadLol. Lmao. Then why do they have an EV with the Mustang moniker? Why do they have an all electric version of the F-150, their best seller? Why did they invest half a billion dollars into Rivian? Why did they invest money into an EV plant where they will be manufacturing Ford EVs? If they think it's a fad, they wouldn't be pouring so much fucking money into EV shit.When solid state batteries make it into cars replacing lithium-ion, it's fucking over.
>>26090349>EV is a fadNot really a fad but more like a huge scam for politicians to get huge amounts of money.Otherwise yes, its all bullshit.
>>26093363the heaviest Elise ever made, jesus christi wish i was joking but even the Hennessy Venom was lighter and it was twice the size.
>>26090274Yes, it dropped both balls and is no longer a iToddler.
>>26097209Because companies saw how TSLA stock rallied 2000% 2019-2020 and they wanted a piece of the action. The only reason these companies do anything is to make their shareholders happy. And why do the shareholders think EVs are a great idea? Because it's a new and exciting product that they can sell at an overpriced value compared to ICE cars, and also give people a sense of moral superiority for "saving the environment" (BS).Tech goes through these phases of hype and disappointment, just like how ML was overhyped from like 2015-2020. We got some cool stuff out of it but it was nowhere near the revolution that companies were promising. EVs are the exact same thing, the quality of the vehicles doesn't matter, what matters is whether you can extract massive profits from uninformed customers.
>>26099168Also a scam for consumers for having less maintenance, faster acceleration and the ability to charge at their house for a fraction of the cost of gasoline.
>>26099604Yeah before it catches on fire and burns your home down
>>26100549That's a very unlikely scenario.
Looks soulless and not like a muscle carAlso it's 2022 why are we talking about 2024
>>26093363For comparison, the OG Tesla Roaster battery stored less energy than the current Chevy Bolt, and its battery pack was only about 117 Wh/kg. There are battery packs now that are over 200 Wh/kg, and typical packs are around the 170 Wh/kg range.It would be relatively easy for a brand to make an affordable electric pony car or roadster today weighing about the same as their internal combustion competition.There's just better margins making everything into Crossovers so that's what they're doing. The market for small fast cars just isn't really there.
>>26102493>Unlikely scenarioWhere's ACKposter when you need him?
>>26090274They really should have made a PHEV version with a bit of all-electric range say 40 miles to lower the TCO a bit, and also give it the ability to have electric launch.
s550 but with new bumpers and minor changes to body lines... they dropped the ball by not changing the fucking car lol
>>26103052its not a facelift, retard
>>26097209Shut the fuck up cancer patient. EVs are dog shit. Keep coping.Also found the shitty environmentalists. Dip shit, how about instead attacking oil yall plant some trees instead. Morons, literally
>>26102681There's been millions of EVs built, yet only a handful of fires. You only need to think about it a little bit to see why it's such a nonsensical thing to be worried about. It's borderline paranoia.
>>26090274The opposite, dodge dropped the ball hard by taking the EVpill and cancelling the highly successful Charger and Challenger. Ford is going to make bank with the new Mustang simply because it will be the only new cheap V8 coupe recognizable to americans, while Dodge and Chevy will struggle to sell 100k+ EVs
>>26102805A problem with PHEVs is that they typically don't have great performance in EV mode. Full EVs have a lot more power at their disposal.
>>26103666Which is exactly the problem, actual retard.
>>26103712>Keep coping.This doesn't make any fucking sense coming from your point of view. The industry is shifting towards EVs. Why would a fan of EVs need to cope about anything? They should be ecstatic that there's so many to choose from now.
>>26093259It is strange to me how dodge went from putting hellcat engines in fucking minivans to the bullshit they have today. Surprisingly no Judaism there, just retardism.>>26093292Ford knows the only people who buy EVs are faggots and niggers, so the mach-e is marketed toward them.>>26093308Two niche markets won't make it past the marketing analysis. >>26097209Marketing faggots and CFOs are fucking up the business world lately with all the analytics. >>26099604>less maintenanceBut you have expensive maintenance once the battery needs replaced.>faster accelerationBut no manual gearbox. It's no fun.>charge at their house for a fraction of the costYeah, except when I go on long road trips it turns a 10 minute gas station visit into a 2 hour visit or more. Don't even get me started on hauling a trailer.>>26103741EV fires are equivalent to gas engines exploding. Doesn't happen as often as one thinks it does. Until a poor design choice happens(See: Pinto)
>>26103712>environmentalistsI'm an environmentalist, but I hate EVfags that buy them "for the environment". Those faggots aren't doing shit but virtue signaling. The only reason to buy an EV is for acceleration and nothing more.>>26103763>shifting towards EVsJust like it was going to go all hybrid, just like it was going to go all hydrogen, just like it was going to go all self driving. >so many to choose from now>spending 80k+ on a depreciating assetISHYGDDT
>>26103764>But you have expensive maintenance once the battery needs replaced.What's the likelihood that a battery will need to be replaced before 200,000 miles, 500,000 miles or 1,000,000 miles? If you can prove that this is a systemic issue and not just a few bad apples then by all means—change my mind.>2 hour visitDemonstrably false. Even the slowest charging mainstream EV you can buy today, the Chevrolet Bolt, charges in an hour. The fastest charging EVs like the Hyundai Ioniq 5 and Kia EV6 charge in 18 minutes.
>>26103788>before 200,000, 500,000 or 1,000,000 miles?Rechargeable batteries degrade over time, even with the massive packs EVs carry. Factor in environment like heat, etc, and you're left with bullshit estimates. I'd wager most batteries will last 150k-200k miles. Like an engine. Except for one factor: It is cheaper to drop a new engine in than it is to put a battery pack in.So let's say EVs end up being the cheap consumer oriented and disposable heaps of garbage everyone wants them to be. Environment is out of the question now, because you have millions of bad batteries wasting away. Now we're forced to buy new ones all the time due to cost reasons. The EV batteries also will hold shorter ranges over time, so sure you might have a battery last to 200k miles. What will your range be by then? 100mi? Now it's costing as much as gas. Until battery technology gets better. Significantly better. We won't see EVs be even close to controlling the market.>1 hour>18 minutesA tesla on a super charger from empty gives you 200 miles in 15 minutes. To full charge it can take an hour. Granted, you just need enough to get to the next charging station. Your sense of freedom is gone for the sake of time. Eventually I'm sure we will see electric chargers at gas stations, but that won't be for a very long time if at all.
>>26103809EV batteries tend to be considered no longer good for automotive use when they fall below 70% of their initial usable capacity.EV battery normal degradation is around 1% of their current capacity annually, and some amount of degradation is baked in even on top of the rated total capacity which is above the usable capacity.Your uninformed "wager" is just plain wrong. When modern lithium ion EV batteries were new about 10 years ago, yes that was about how long they lasted. The new packs last 350k+ miles.After a battery pack gets retired from a car it doesn't simply get thrown away. 70% degraded may not be good for automotive use, but the modules still have a lot of capacity left and are useful for a number of secondary applications.After that the materials in a battery are extremely valuable, and there are already billion dollar battery recycling companies that are still scaling up.>What will your range be by then? 100mi?Would depend on the initial capacity of the battery pack. A 2022 Tesla Model 3 LR pack that's 70% degraded after driving 350k miles in 2042 would still have a rated range of 210 miles. Not that far off from the standard range model from a few years ago. Not really a car that could do road trips anymore, but still more than capable for daily use around town, and that's at the very upper limit of the degradation before retirement.By then, the cost of batteries should be a fraction of what it is today, and their capacity for the weight should also be increased. Already its gone from ~$1000 a kWh at 117 Wh/kg to ~$100 a kWh at 200 Wh/kg.>Eventually I'm sure we will see electric chargers at gas stations, but that won't be for a very long time if at all.Personally I don't think most gas stations are a good fit for fast chargers, but the 250kW chargers going in at many Casey's locations enable getting back on the road in under 10 minutes. Which is about the length of a road trip stop at a Casey's anyway.
>>26103879>EV batteries tend to be considered no longer good for automotive use when they fall below 70% of their initial usable capacity.Might be, but this metric won't be followed nor is it considered.>1% of their current capacity annuallyIn ideal conditions, yes. Those in hotter climates will suffer significantly larger percentages. >The new packs last 350k+ milesIs this why companies are only offering ~100-150k mile warranties on batteries over 8 years? Those new packs are also prohibitively expensive to put in a commuter car that the average joe can afford.>after a battery pack gets retired from a car it doesn't simply get thrown awayMajority end up being recycled, a lot still end up in landfills. And once they reach their end of life, those non biodegradable nor valuable components will end up in landfills and oceans.>billion dollar battery recycling companiesThose companies are awful for the environment and look good on the surface. Their effects on local populace are significantly worse than the pros they have. Definitely not good for the air.>70% degraded after driving 350k miles in 2042Allegedly, we will see when the time comes. For now it is all speculation. 210 mile range would also be under ideal conditions. >cost of batteries should be a fraction of what it is todayOnly if we can manage to get away from lithium. Lithium is lower in quantity and takes more resources to obtain and process than oil. Lithium is our bottleneck. >on the road in under 10 minutesAgain, that's going from one stop to another in a small mileage period. I can't go 300 miles on a full charge with towing, I can't go full distance with AC on full blast or the heat on full blast. >most gas stations are a good for for fast chargersThey are though. If EV were to take 30% of the marketshare in automobiles then you'd start seeing pumps be replaced with chargers, and room to accommodate. Time will tell.
>>26103911you forgot>there is nothing else that ever breaks in a car ever>there is nothing else that a car ever consumes in its life ever>I am such a huge raging engineer I think that "fewer moving parts" means there's less to break even though I don't even know how to write code or count moving parts>also EV fires are at all the same thing>and MPGe is real in my head (because brandon doesn't have the power to shift the cost of oil with the stroke of a pen)>lastly, anybody who talks about reality needs to take his meds
>>26090349Based Ford for not indulging into the esg bullshit that every other company is indulging in.My next car will most likely be a mustang
>>26104946MPGe is a measurement of distance traveled per unit of energy, like miles per kilowatt hour. There's 33.7 kWh in a gallon of gas. If an EV has a 102 kWh battery and gets 300 miles of range, that's the equivalent of going 300 miles on 3 gallons of gas, or 100 MPGe.
>>26105837No it's not. Is a psychological trick and nothing else, just like all the rest of the radical hardcore communist figures. Go look in to how the soviet union made up new numbers on top of new numbers just to be able to say that this or that had actually worked when everything was completely broken.Just look at the modern russian military. It's not exactly a tsar bomba.
>>26090274No, but they did drop the ball by not making the Tremec TR-3160 the standard manual transmissionThey're still using the shitty Getrag MT-82 for the GT while the Dark Horse gets the Tremec
>>26105901It's not a trick. It's mathematics.
>>26093292>It fills a different nicheis the niche being gay and retarded?
>>26103756but they changed the car how did they drop the ball?
>>26106025Pretty sure it's the same as the current gen manuals in the gt vs the mach 1.
>>26106201Yeah and so are government statistics. JUST BELIEVE IT GOYIM WE DECIDED TO NAME IS SCIENCE AND WROTE IT INTO THE LAWBOOKS.
>>26107706Wtf are you even talking about, you lunatic?
>>26107893How MPGe is a completely useless and meaningless figure that exists only for psychological warfare to brainwash people in to buying EVs because they couldn't be convinced to do so for any legitimate reason. MPGe would not exist if EVs could be sold on their own merits.
>>26107966People don't really care about EV efficiency. It's not like a gas car where a low MPG car costs you a lot more money in fuel compared to a high MPG car. EVs are generally cheap to recharge at home. The electricity cost difference between efficient and inefficient EVs is small and insignificant, so people usually don't care. They care more more about range, charging speed, acceleration—pretty much everything else.
>>26108110Then why would they have MPGe? It's modern advertising, i.e. psychological warfare. Goebbels cited American advertising after being reformed by Edward Bernays as his inspiration.It's just like when you keep repeating the meme of charging at home for basically free, even though that's merely the ideal case rather than the common one.
>>26108128>Then why would they have MPGeThey're required to by law. From what I've gathered, EV owners tend to prefer to measure efficiency in watt-hours per mile or miles per kilowatt hour because watts are how we already measure electricity.>It's just like when you keep repeating the meme of charging at home for basically free, even though that's merely the ideal case rather than the common one.Not free, but it's usually cheaper than gas.
>>26108156>government mandated useless statistics>government trying to cajole people into buying EVs for bullshit climate statisticsIt's like pottery
>>26108166If the government was trying to get people to buy EVs, they've been doing a pretty bad job at it. EVs sell themselves.
>>26108181lol do you think the government is good at things? That's why we don't want communism.
>>26108548It's not really a problem then, is it?
>>26108568yeah sure no problem. just break a window so that somebody has to pay to repair it. it's the economy bud din du nuffin.