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DANGEROUSLY based

https://thedriven.io/2022/08/01/tesla-loses-europe-ev-sales-lead-as-fiat-500e-charges-into-top-place/
>>
Is the Fiat 500, in any form, trim and engine, the car that makes people from around all over the world seethe the most?
>>
>2000 lb bomb loses EU sales lead as 500 lb bomb charges into top place
ftfy
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>>25917290
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>>25917135
Makes sense honestly. The Fiat 500 is an awesome affordable city EV that can able all of a person's normal daily driving.
A Tesla has more range, and can charge faster on a trip, but that's really an advantage less than 10% of the time, especially in Europe where you can just hop on a train and zoom across countries at 200mph.

Tesla needs to make the more affordable city EV hot hatch they teased a while back if they're serious about dominating in Europe.
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>>25917301
>factory new vs shitheap
dilate
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>>25917316
>clueless retard
Tesla has no range, no EV has actually, especially not az high speed.
Train network in Europe is an utter shit fest. You don't zoom across Europe at 200 mph, its not even 200 kmh most of the time.
EVs will never be good, petrol, diesel and flights are the way.
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>>25917343
Yeah but you're not gonna drive across Europe at 200 kmh either.
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>>25917343
Across Germany you can. In general trains are only useful between big cities, anything else is absolutely atrocious.
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>>25917387
>>25917423
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>>25917423
>Across Germany you can.
No you can't, I would know, I live here. Your average speed will never get anywhere near 200 kmh regardless of how aggressively you stand on the gas pedal.
>In general trains are only useful between big cities, anything else is absolutely atrocious.
That's a completely new point, stop moving goalposts.
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>>25917423
>Across Germany you can
In cars yes. In trains? I'm always happy when my train arrives within an hour of original departure and I can count the rides where I arrived on time on one hand.
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>>25917433
Ich bin Deutscher und wohne in Deutschland.
There's more than enough Autobahn where you can easily blast beyond 200 kmh, just need to establish dominance on the left lane.
>moving goalpost
Retard. You mentioned trains in your original comment so it's perfectly valid and I responded twice. Now that it's uncomfortable it's suddenly moving goalposts.
Get a grip, shill.
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>>25917451
>You mentioned trains
I'm not even that guy, faglord. You can cherrypick empty Autobahn sections, but you're never gonna cross the country at an average speed greater than about 150 kmh, unlike the claim that was made.
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>>25917451
In which secluded shithole part of the country do you live where? You can't even drive a full minute with 200kmh unless you drive at night when nobody is outside. Please explain how you "establish dominance on the left lane" The only dominance that gets established in your life is by your wifes girlfriend you faggot
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>>25917466
>I'm not even that guy
How would I know you retarded nigger.
>cherrypick empty Autobahn sections
Who said empty? Tailgate and flash the slowfags out of the left lane and not all routes are as horrendous as Ruhrpott subhuman territory.
>unlike the claim that was made
What claim? Averages? You made it, not the guy who I responded to so stop moving goalposts or raising straw men :^)
Even then, with how shit the ICE railways are you're lucky if you reach 150 kmh on average, not counting in delays.
>>
>>25917478
>gets btfo
>seethes
>ur xyz
Concession accepted.
>>
>>25917479
lmao you're delusional if you think you can make traffic and slowdowns disappear if you just act enough like a BMW cockroach
>>
I'll wait for the mini ev
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>>25917436
>>25917451
>t. Never been here
>>
>the US never got the Honda E
this is sad but the Fiat is pretty cute. I'm a burly redneck and I love cute cars.
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>>25917520
>you can cherry pick
Traffic and slowdowns just like I can cherry pick empty roads and delays or cancelations of DB which are daily business.

>>25917549
Böse Realität, musst du mit handeln, Sören.
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>>25917301
>counting crashes
Kill yourself disingenuous nigger
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>>25917343
>Tesla has no range, no EV has actually,
Long range BEVs like a Tesla have similar range to gas cars with normal sized fuel tanks even when at speed. 100 kWh, 5km per kWh at 150km/h do the math.
The thing BEVs lack right now is the equivalent of an extended range fuel tank.

That is changing, Our Next Energy demoed a 200kWh battery pack 9 months ago by driving it 1200km on a single charge in a harsh midwestern winter. They're apparently selling their dual-chemistry battery tech to BMW, but they're hardly the only company that is testing cars with that kind of energy storage. A bunch of companies are now up around pack densities of 250 Wh/kg, compare to the Tesla Model 3 of 5 years ago which was 165 Wh/kg.
Its just not everybody is using that to deliver crazy range, most companies are using it to increase efficiency by decreasing weight.
Which is how Mercedes got their EQXX to 1000km range.
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>>25917135
Makes sense. The Fiat is cheaper and a sub-compact/city-car, which is the best use case for an EV currently.
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>>25917584
>TWO MORE WEEKS
and still no range >>>/x/
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>>25917582
Sounds like bullshit, or its being very disingenuous about what counts as a 'start' in an EV, and its completely ignoring all of the fires in gas cars that happen from sources other than the ignition.
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>>25917601
>my source only counts if it helps me shill
>playing jewish semantics games
Genuinely kill yourself.
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>>25917597
Reminder that chart is roughly doubling the energy use of the EVs, has no curve for the van, and ignores the fact that the van has over 1 MWh of stored energy and somehow only manages 400 miles of range at 80mph implying 2500 Wh/mi which is ridiculously inefficient.
>>
>>25917612
3 in 1000 starts implies that every EV sold is bursting into flames after about a year.
That's obviously ridiculous, and it seems like whoever wrote the article is fundamentally misunderstanding whatever figure they're looking at.

Incidents of fire in EVs are far less common than in gas cars.
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>>25917614
Reminder that regardless of all of that your range is still less than 250 miles unless you want cyclists to overtake you.
My 20yo 6 cyl goes over 600 km on 60 liters with ease while you sweat blood and tears after 200 miles on the highway.
Cope more.
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>>25917619
>hah look at ebin science and study hah btfo chud
>nonono study doesn't support me? doesn't count lol!
COPE and SEETHE. Your own source contradicts you. Take the L and leave or entertain me some more. Your choice, leddit faggot.
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>>25917621
>530kWh of energy 600km of range!
That's pretty pathetic, EVs with less than 1/5 of that energy have driven further.
The moment EVs go from having 1/5 the energy to 1/4 the energy its basically all over for internal combustion.

>tears after 200 miles on the highway.
You wish. Range anxiety is a thing of the past now that 250kW fast chargers are rolling out and Tesla has finally released their CCS adapter in the US.
I routinely drive my EV 500 miles in a day with no issue, and without stopping longer than I would on the same trip with a gas car.
>>
Since Tesla has the model makes
>s
>3
>x
>y
Two more can be created
>e
>v
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>>25917625
That's not my source, and its not a scientific paper, its some low-rent author trying to do a write up of somebody else's study and failing.
>>
>a
>s
>3
>x
>y
>e
>v
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>>25917582
>3 out of every 1000 starts
So after about 150 days half of EVs have a fire?
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>>25917652
They actually seem to be going towards SEXY CAR

C and R being Cybertruck and Roadster would just leave the 'A'.
Most speculation is that the more affordable car will be the '4' since Ford has the trademark on Model A.
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>>25917661
Kek maybe it should be a oemlout or aa
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>number of posters stops increasing halfway into an ev thread
>again
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>>25917649
>the moment...
TWO MORE WEEKS
It's a known fact that EV have no range and cannot compete with combustion engines. Your fairy tales don't change reality.

>You wish.
I know and I laugh. You have less range than a run off the mill Polo lmao.
>fast charging
Enjoy your battery replacement for 20k.

>>25917655
>n-no it's the author bad
>but I do cite his figure!
C.O.P.E.
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>>25917676
>TWO MORE WEEKS
9 months ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWj2YCdoc9A

Seriously grow up. ICE may have been stagnant for decades, but BEV technology is still progressing rapidly.
And nobody is citing that stupid figure except to make fun of it. Seriously, you think BEVs all catch fire after 6 months?
>>
>>25917695
>with an average speed of 55 mph.
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>>25917709
Show me where it says that it was 55.
Since it was done in Winter going slow would actually hurt the range since its more time to keep the car warm.
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>>25917714
>The vehicle completed a road test across Michigan in December 2021 with an average speed of 55 mph. These results were validated by a third party using a vehicle dynamometer.
From the company website.
>n-n-nooo its winter!
Grasping at straws lmao..
>>
Bicycle : Electric
Motorcycle : Gasoline
Truck : Diesel
Anything else is a meme
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>>25917135
Based.
The battle for top performers is just EV Vs EV now.
So long ICEcucks.
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>>25917719
Oh its the number that includes the in-town driving they were doing so its fucking nothing. Even if they'd gone 90 non-stop they still would have done 1000km.
This is like complaining the Mercedes EQXX did its run at 55 mph average speed when it was stopping in town to do promo events.
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>>25917726
>n-n-nooo in town means its nothing
Absolutely GRASPING at straws ahahaha what the fuck..
>Even if they'd gone 90 non-stop they still would have done 1000km.
Proofs :^)

Enjoy getting tailgated by trucks in the slow lane, faggot noranger lmao.
>>
A CUTE
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>>25917736
>Proofs
Math.

Model S at 90 gets slightly better than 3 miles to a kWh.
200 kWh / 320 Wh/mi = 620 miles range or 1000km.
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>>25917760
>no proofs
Thought so. I accept your concession.
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>>25917765
Do you seriously think EV makers secretly messing with the energy consumption gauge?
Even at the highest consumption I've ever seen on the road in my car 200kWh is 500 miles of range.
And that was -40 temperatures with a strong headwind.
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>>25917776
>still no proofs
>straw manning
>grasping intensifies
>muh anecdotal evidence
TOPKEK.. please do not stop
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>>25917135
They used to lease those things here for like $70 a month at one point, it's so cheap and saves you so much gas on your daily commute that there was no reason not to get one
Well I guess if you're a rentoid with no access to an outlet and only 1 parking spot it wouldn't work out for you
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>>25917826
Here in Italy there’s a ton of these in cities as the fleet Fiat’s private car sharing program, they’re really cute and makes the scenario look better.
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Can't wait for ev semi trucks and heavy equipment. Then it's over for you diesel fags.
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>>25917652
Ford has rights to model E, he had to change it to model 3
>>
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>>25917135
>factory gets shut down
>no sales
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>>25917142
I love the Fiat 500. If you've ever been to Rome, every fourth car is a Smart Car. I'd like to think the head of Fiat saw this and lamented and resolved to restore classic Italian subcompacts to the Roman landscape instead of grotesque German hatchbacks. They fit in with the atmosphere of the city much better, feels more like an homage than a utility.
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>>25918055
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>>25917142
The 500 is gallapagos car. It's suited to a very particular environment and market. It's basically a car built for Rome and Rome-like cities.
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>>25917584
i aint readin all that ev tranny shit u wrote
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>>25918055
Post data controlling for these factors; you won't.
Dilate.
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I want one of those compliance Fiat 500e models sold in California.
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>>25917597
>>25918617
>LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
Great argument.
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>>25918640
>LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
Enjoy getting tailgated on the right lane with your 55 mph, cuck.
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>>25918642
Enjoy $6.00 a gallon.
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>>25918640
why would i argue with electronic appliance shills? cringe homie but you can try reddit
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>>25918650
You don't have to, just don't expect anyone to take anything you say seriously.
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>>25917433
Autobahn is usually clogged which drops the average speed a lot. At the right time its possible to be fast, but its difficult.
Berlin-Munich is doable under 4h. (360miles) Average speed is about 100mph, without breaking the law, which is still less than the average speed Cannonball Run. More should be possible with preparation.

There is also a record that was not even beaten by that Bugatti fag recently.

>268mph for over a mile back in 1938.
>inb4 no salt lakes in europe.
>>
>>25918648
Enjoy $ 20k battery replacement.
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>>25918714
>Extremely rare circumstance vs circumstance that happens every time you need fuel which is always since ICE vehicles always need fuel
You're really grasping at straws.
>>
>https://www.autoevolution.com/news/teardowns-show-tesla-s-4680-cells-are-just-big-and-ordinary-nmc-811-batteries-198926.html
Awkward
>>
I think the best solution for someone to get a non-pozzed ev is to convert an older salvaged car into an ev. That way you avoid the gay shit associated with the teslas and have a normal looking car without having to pay a subscription fee to the automakers.
>>
>>25918747
Conversion cost time, labor, parts, and expertise
Time/labor/parts/expertise cost money
Conversion cost money
LOT OF MONEY
>>
>>25918652
no I don't take microwave enthusiasts seriously
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>>25918739
isnt this better in case of a puncture
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>>25918730
There's no $6 fuel price but there is 26k bills for battery replacements.
COPE SEETHE DILATE
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>>25917316
>Europe where you can just hop on a train and zoom across countries at 200mph.
do burgers really believe this?
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>>25918804
It's called high speed rail sweaty
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>>25918808
Doesn't work that way, retard.
YWNBAW
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>>25918789
Apparently it's easier in case there's a dead cell, but, I don't think you got the point - Telsa harped on and on and on and on and on and on about their batteries and had the big battery annoucement on battery day with battery this and battery that and a battery for your battery with batteries.... only for it all to turn out to be a complete nothingburger and they're using bog standard already available and on the market batteries. Same as any other manufacturer.
>>
>>25917614
I dont buy gas in watt hours though, i buy it in gallons
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>>25918811
>Doesn't work that way, retard.
How does it work then, expert of public transport (aka poor)
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>>25918890
>poor
Post car, timestamp and bread on hood, """rich""" expert.
>How does it work then
Simple, it doesn't. Trains don't go anywhere near 200 mph, let alone 200 kmh because the infrastructure is falling apart. Not even speaking of delays and cancelations which are plenty.
>>
>>25918808
>europe is one country
>>25918901
this, retarded /n/ burgers think one-country-europe is some kind of utopia where everyone has a tgv shinkansen and the cars are banned
in reality, many european countries are as automotive as the burgerland
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>>25917625
At least I can still tell reality and complete bullshit apart. You have to be beyond fried to believe EVs burst into flames for every 330th start.
>>
>>25919093
>my subjective bubble is correct and not the objective study from a university
UPBOAT
>>
>>25917301
>a gazillion gas cars
>a million hybrids
>like 12 evs
maybe percent, such number. now do one for "spontaneous combustions while charging/fueling NOT due to user error"
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>>25917584
Nigger my diesel station wagon can easily do 1200km on a single tank, then fill up in 3m and be good to go for another 1200km.
If you drive at a constant 55mph like in your faggy example 1600km would be no issue
>>
>>25918055
You have to be delusional to think that MSM is against EVs. The thing this chart completely misses is that gasoline and diesel fires are usually confined under the hood or in a small area of the engine and can be put out with a fire extinguishers. Most EV fires are violent total-loss fires that consume the whole car and cannot be put out unless the local fire department has super specialized equipment.
>>
>>25919152
You have to be delusional if you think MSM isn't against EVs.
>>
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>>25917135
Do electric car owners honestly have no fear that the government will just shut off their car or remote into it and stop them or run them into a telephone pole?

Do they honestly not worry about it catching fire?

They really don't worry about the cost of replacement batteries and depreciation?

So they really not see the way a cell phone battery behaves, that is discharges quickly and takes and long time to recharge and that over time it doesn't pay as long and you have to replace it every 2 or 3 years, and this doesn't concern them?

Does it really not appeal to you that sound that an engine makes when all the small explosions push the pistons and turn the crank shaft?

So you really believe in global warming even though it's obviously just a scam to sell you all kinds of dumb overpriced products, for example electric cars.

Did you do any research into whether electric cars are actually better for the environment or not? Meaning, do you know where the electricity in your house and your local charging stations comes from and what effect that power plant has on the environment and how much of that energy is lost transferring it over miles of wire?

Does it not bother you that Elon musk lies about everything? That the Tesla robot was a guy in a costume, that the roadster doesn't exist, that the boring company was a failure that the hyperloop was obviously a scam?

I just don't get it. If NASCAR or formula1 switched to electric purely because it accelerates faster I would understand.

But it just seems so obviously a bad idea on so many levels.

Europeans so this shit all the time. They can't wait to put a chip in their arm and have a social credit system. They love the surveillance state but I'm disappointed in Americans who go along with this.
>>
>>25919164
I was surprised to learn Hyundai's Ionic 5 uses prismatic cells in their battery packs. I've seen enough of those puff up, I sure as hell don't want to be sitting on top of thousands of them, or have all that parked in my garage.
>>
>>25917625
>>25917612
EVtranny raiders BTFO
>>
>>25917660
That would make sense why they started banning them in parking garages
>>
>>25919161
They are very much in favor of the politicians pushing for no more fossil fuels by 2030, that's for damn sure. It's true I rarely hear them talk about any ev other than Tesla. And while they aren't exactly nice to Elon, in my opinion they are nicer than they should be. He is clearly a con artist who is getting away with it. And I'm not sure exactly why. But it's gotta be something to do with the 2030 agenda climate change bullshit.
Or I don't know, maybe he's the new Jeffrey Epstein or something.
>>
>>25917721
Gigabased. Fuck carfags.
>>
>>25918890
>Not realizing you have to stop to pick up/drop off people at every shithole town which slows you down significantly
That's why cars are superior and always will be vs public transport btw.
>>
>>25918784
So? At least it won't be a fag tesla
>>
>>25919174
>unironically eating this shit up
>>
>>25917582
>implying gas cars don't crash

what's your point?
>>
>>25919152
gas car fires only have a chance to be non-car-destroying because they are spreading the flammability of their fuel around, so when it catches fire somewhere other than the tank, it has a chance to never spread further

an electrical fire that takes places on an EV away from the fuel source (the battery) will never make it's way back to the battery because copper bus bars don't burn.

I personally have never seen a fossil fuel car fire get extinguished by a fire extinguisher, but have seen several gas vehicles have to get the ol' 5 hour spraydown from the fire department experience. One happened near my home recently. Car hadn't been on for 16+ hours when it started and within 4 minutes of starting the truck was a writeoff

I wonder if cars will ever have
>>
>>25919364
whoops

I wonder if electric cars will ever have a battery eject feature, where the majority of the battery drops away from the rest of the chassis during a fire.
>>
>>25919164
Quite a gish gallop there.

EVs aren't that hard to harden against attacks that apply to any modern car. Simplicity of EV powertrains reduction of suppliers limits attack vectors.

By the time a new EV need a new battery in 20 years, costs will have come down because there will be more EVs on the road.

Cell phones don't have active thermal management, and have much smaller batteries that do more cycles. A typical electric car with a similar number of cycles to a phone after 3 years will have driven close to 350k miles.

Almost all modern cars are faking their sound anyway. EVs actually make a satisfying whir if you remove a bit of sound proofing.

Read some actual scientific journals, the effect of releasing fossil carbon into the atmosphere is not controversial.

Elon did not invent EVs, nor did he found Tesla.

Electric motorsports are starting to take off, the gen 3 Formula E car is lighter, faster, and will be able to push later in the race. Range-extended EVs will be competing at LeMans in 2024, Formula 1 and Nascar will almost certainly switch in the future.

The advantage for Americans is we can drive on our own domestically produced electricity from Nuclear Power or our own solar panels. No more price manipulation from the hostile members of OPEC+.
>>
>>25919211
Incorrect. The MSM is obviously against EVs. Notice all the brainwashed anti EV people regurgitate the exact unfounded claims that the MSM puts out.
>>
>>25919397
But Tesla gets it's solar panels from China and it's batteries from Korea and we don't have nuclear power
>>
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>>25919504
You'll have to give an example. I hear nothing but pie in the sky bullshit about clean energy and climate change from those liars. I am very happy with my dinosaur juice guzzler
>>
>>25919368
Unlikely, as the battery pack is an integral part of the frame on most EVs. To your other point, notice how you said gas fires have a high chance of not spreading. The ones that spread and consume the whole car violently are rarer than EV fires. Runaway diesels aren't even super common anymore.
>>
>>25919906
That seems dumb. I'm not saying you're wrong but why not make then easily removable unless you're trying to rip people off?
>>
>>25919843
Tesla Batteries for the US market are made in the US at the Gigafactories in Nevada and Texas.
Tesla Solar panels are manufactured in Buffalo NY.
About 1/5 of electricity in the US is nuclear.
>>
>>25917301
>hybrids at over 2x pure gas cars
gee I wonder why
Surely it's the gas part, and not the electric part, r-right?
>>
>>25919939
>>
>>25919939
>>25919964
>>
>>25919939
>>25919964
>>25919968
>>
>>25919939
>>25919964
>>25919968
>>25919971
Yea sure American made.
>>
>>25917135
Based. EVs are dominating the market, the same way they are dominating meets
>>
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>>25919164
very based take, much respect. fuck evs
>>
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>Based. EVs are dominating the ma-ACK
>>
>>25919174
I have never seen anything like that, 90% of parking garages in the US have spots specifically reserved for EVs so it's the exact fucking opposite.
>>
>>25918576
Thanks for demonstrating >>25918055
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>>25917135
Fiat 500s are such junk that the newest cars in junkyards here are always fiat 500s and kias. I wouldn't even park next to a fiat 500e I consider that a bomb.
>>
>>25917721
>electric bike
Just get a manual pedal
>>
>>25917135
so i was whiping my ass and my hand slipped and my middle finger went straight up my asshole and shit got trapped under the fingernail
>>
>>25917135
>fiat-500e
>10x cheaper than iphone of cars tesla
make sense



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