Is it so fucking hard for chinks NOT TO install shitty BMS that don't balance cells? It is just idk, 0.1 US dolla difference?Also, why did they even lie? It says 10 AH on the battery heatshrink, while in reality it is 7.8 AH. That $0.1 saved resulted in 4.22 - 3.85 V disbalance in cells. No fucking wonder it did only like 12 km.
>>1949696>18650sYou are a braver anon than I. Despite knowing quite a bit about battery safety and ohm's law and all that shit those battery packs with the 18650s and 20700 scare the absolute fuck out of me. I know with one battery once shit goes south it goes FAST but having a bunch of them together, fuck that.
>>1949697>Despite knowing quite a bit about battery safety and ohm's law and all that shit those battery packs with the 18650s and 20700 scare the absolute fuck out of me.They do scare the shit out of me too. Especially high discharge cells, when you short them, they get so hot copper and aluminium catch fire. These cells (SINC 18650) aren't high discharge, but they still can make you shit your pants in case.So whenever I work on cells, I want to have them discharged to lowest practical level. Not in this case since I'm trying to understand wtf is going on with balancing. But yes, battery stuff is scary, and I think I should mention that untrained people shouldn't screw around with internals of the battery at all. Other thing is that fire extinguishers are kinda useless with lithium battery fire, and in case of fire, best thing you can do is just throw it outside in safe place and just wait for it to burn.
>>1949697Just build a powerwallhttps://hackaday.com/2016/09/29/homebrew-powerwall-sitting-at-20kwh/
>>1949696I want to open mine now. Where do I get a new blue shrink wrap that size?
>>1949727>I want to open mine nowI will warn again, it might catch fire if you aren't careful.Before you open, figure out what is the purpose of BMS, balancing circuit, etc. > Where do I get a new blue shrink wrap that size?Cheapest option would be aliexpress. Get the PVC wrap, as not only it is cheaper, but silicone actually sticks to it, which allows you to waterproof the battery. You can also get heatshrink at industrial electric shop, but its much more expensive as that wrap is meant to withstand like 1kV or so. You can also use soda bottle, but there is a good chance to cook the battery from excessive heat. Since I don't really care about shit looking stock, I will just tape it back using electrical tape. But if I were to do it for somebody else, I'd buy proper wrap.
>>1949700>>1949697They're fine if you know what you're doing. A good tip is to have a 5 gallon bucket of sand nearby. If you cover it before it gets out of control you can keep it contained.>>1949696One more issue is these fucking chinks rarely use is thermistors for temperature protection. The most common reason they catch fire is because of thermal run away. Once lithium cells pass a certain temperature (primarily from sustained high loads) they keep going and there's no way to stop it.Idiots talk about banning e-bike batteries, battery registry's, etc. when batteries are safe when made properly. The issue is the battery manufactures.
>>1949744>One more issue is these fucking chinks rarely use is thermistors for temperature protection.That's true. But I don't think thermistor is of any use, given discharge/charge currents are reasonable.I think only e-scooter that do have thermistors are ones from NIU and Ninebot.Btw, I think you can easily add a thermal cut off feature to any BMS, just by connecting several balance wires via a thermal fuse, 50C one maybe. Because if battery got to 50C, there is something wrong with it>The most common reason they catch fire is because of thermal run away.Which is caused by mechanical damage (a lot of batteries just rely on the heatshrink to prevent internal shorts, which wears off due vibrations and shorts to the chassis, bypassing all your BMS circuits) or total lack of fuses. >Idiots talk about banning e-bike batteries, battery registry's, etc. when batteries are safe when made properly. The issue is the battery manufactures.Issue isn't even manufacturers, its china/importer problem really. Importer asks for an e-scooter, china dude tells him it is $400, importer asks for $300 and china dude tells fine ok, and then they cut corner everywhere they can. Like in my case. How much more would a BMS with balancing cost? 10 cents? And you know, it is not a fire hazard, it just means that all these e-scooters will end up in e-waste pile somewhere, just because battery is dying earlier than it should. Lithium batteries in laptops, where they are closely matched and have proper BMS, they last for 5 years, with some capacity loss, maybe even decades. Good for me as now I can search FB marketplace for these scooters with utterly useless battery and resell them, but sucks for everyone else with foreskin intact and normal nose.
>>1949760Whether it's a thermistor or thermal fuse, something should be included.It's a series of issues. A lot of these shitty ebike/scooter/skateboard/onewheels rely on everything being perfect and shit themselves when things go wrong.They expect the charger to manage everything regarding safe charging or they make the charger dumb and expect the BMS to handle everything. If the charger fails and supplies too much current, the BMS isn't designed to fail safely in that scenario so it sends that excess current to the batteries or the solder traces overheat and fuse together causing a short. The BMS doesn't have good short circuit detection and relies on the solder joints never failing. The wires are undersized and they count on the consumer never overloading them for too long for it to become an issue. At best the consumer wastes time/money fixing it or deals with premature aging. At worse it starts a fire. All of which could have been avoided with proper engineering.I didn't think of the importer thing. That probably plays a role, but you see the same thing from batteries sold direct from the manufacturer or on major stores like eBay or Amazon.Lol, one man's trash...Sorry for the incoherent post, I'm phone posting.
>>1949762>Whether it's a thermistor or thermal fuse, something should be included.Yes, but I think it is one of the least important safety features. I'd prioritize fuses (insane, but I've no idea why do they all skip fuses, given they are really low cost), and proper mechanical design (spacers/insulation between cells, fiberglass or thick plastic to prevent shorts to chassis, etc).>It's a series of issues. Pretty much. I think "safety cheese" model applies to batteries too.The saddest part is that all technologies to make batteries safe existed for years. In laptops, for example... But in PEVs shits always lacking. Maybe because PEVs were designed out of RC model parts back in the day. Like 2012 or when did first e-scooters appear, they all used shittiest LiPos with shittiest BMSes imaginable. Very few batteries survived to this day, while scooters themselves are still fine.>A lot of these shitty ebike/scooter/skateboard/onewheels rely on everything being perfect and shit themselves when things go wrong.They don't rely on anything, except profit and money. Ninebot, for example, they actually have made pretty good batteries, safety-wise... But idk, ESx batteries suck, they always have some weird issues, but they are safe, they have thick plastic enclosure, spacers, BMS with thermal senors, fuse, etc(cont)
>>1949762>They expect the charger to manage everything regarding safe charging or they make the charger dumb and expect the BMS to handle everything.Charger has just one job, supply CC-CV current. And its BMSes purpose to cut off the charger when battery is charged or about to overcharge. > If the charger fails and supplies too much currentThat's very unlikely. But it can fail in such way it would try to charge the battery way above its rated voltage. Or user-idiot will try to use 48V charger on 36V battery. And in this case BMS is the only thing that can prevent this.>solder traces overheat and fuse together causing a short. This is where ordinary fuse should prevent from shit going nuclear. As I said, a lot of manufacturers just skip it for reasons unknown.> The BMS doesn't have good short circuit detection and relies on the solder joints never failing. BMS has pretty good short circuit protection, it is much faster than normal fuse, but there is a catch. It uses MOSFETs, and they do fail short circuit, which means that in case of some insanely catastrophic short circuit, MOSFET can blow up and it won't cut the current when BMS notices that current is too high. And again, this is where normal fuse should come into play, but sadly, 0.01 cent device is often omitted. It doesn't even have to be a proper glass/ceramic fuse, you can do it like they do it in tesla, where each cell gets a fuse. > The wires are undersized and they count on the consumer never overloading them for too long for it to become an issue.I've never seen an undersized wire on the battery. They are pretty thick, but what I don't like is that they are often silicone, I'd want to see other type of insulation there, which is more wear resistant. Like idk, PVC (which is cheaper than silicone even) or XLPE or smth. >At best the consumer wastes time/money fixing it or deals with premature aging. At worse it starts a fire.Pretty much. (cont)
>>1949762>All of which could have been avoided with proper engineering.There isn't much engineering even needed. It just needs 50 cents more. 50 cents to get proper cell holders with insulators between cells, couple ceramic fuses, couple thermal fuses, etc. >I didn't think of the importer thing. That probably plays a role, It is pretty much an importer problem. They want cheaper, and chinks don't have any regards to safety. I know chinks can make good batteries, hell, even SINC power makes better batteries than I got, because apparently somebody asked them to make it cheaper, so they used BMS without balancing. >but you see the same thing from batteries sold direct from the manufacturer or on major stores like eBay or Amazon.Also an importer problem. But in this case you're the importer, and you're buying junk, that some exporter in china though would be a good idea to order, and again, 10 RMB less? no problem, fuck fuse, fuck BMS, there you go. Battery. It would be 10 000 km away from my home, who cares if it catches on fire.There is nothing wrong in trying to cut corners in order to get lower price, but battery... and other components that can result in property damage and injury, you don't save on them. Worst part is that this short term savings might result in entire shit getting banned like hoverboards, which would result in total profit loss in the long run.
Don't put gas cans in your home. Don't put sketchy lithium batteries inside your home. Keeping the price low to promote proliferation of EVs is acceptable.
>>1949696I couldn't resist to test the results. 13.2 kmBMS still did trip on imbalance, but scooter died in more predictable way, and I think it made 2 km more than before the BMS change.I should add thermal fuse and normal fuse, but for time being, its fine.
>>1949884Fucking shit wont charge over 39.7V...I think I will wait for a day, and if voltage won't go up, or charger won't kick in, I'd disassemble battery again...
>>1949744>Yeah bro it's totally fine any internet retard can do it you just need a bucket of sand go ahead>oh well there is fires but those are coming from factories that don't know what they're doing crazy that I recall a couple months ago seeing a fire at an ebike repair shop. Must have been that someone brought in an AliExpress bike and it blew up before anyone got a chance to open it upit's also crazy that the vape scene had a bunch of the same batteries blow up every so often and now that DIY isn't popular it all went awaybut sure keep dumbfucking around with batteries and encouraging others to then whining 'b-but China' when shit blows up and bans roll in
>>1950017>crazy that I recall a couple months ago seeing a fire at an ebike repair shopThis is normal, nothing to see there.>but sure keep dumbfucking around with batteries and encouraging others to then whining 'b-but China' when shit blows up and bans roll inYep, its china problem, if shit was done right first time, there would be no need to do the retarded shit
>>1950017Learn to read retard.I said if you know what you're doing, not any internet retard.The issue isn't the bike itself, it's the batteries and controllers. Look at power tool batteries and how those are abused. They use the same cells as e-bikes but don't catch on fire because they're properly made.
I've repaired Ninebot ES2 today. God I hate Ninebot ES2, every time I disassemble one, it feels like I'm fisting an android or something, and that would never fucking end since shit keeps on breaking... Makes me wonder if Ninebot-Segway is incapable of designing scooters, or it is just ESx an engineering failure, because I don't think M365s (that were released before ESx) are having so many mechanical issues as ESx. Any segway-ninebot or xiaomi owners? Preferably with high milage scooters. Did you have any weird issues with scooters? Was a broken solder joint inside the battery (thanks EU faggots for lead-free solder). And since BMS design is extremely retarded (you can't disconnect the cells so you have to solder on live board), I blew up a track when re-soldering the connector, had to run a jumper wire.Also they started using EVE cells instead of LG M26, which kinda sucks. Old ninebot batteries were weak as fuck (20A discharge max), but this is just pathetic as cells are rated just 7.5A discharge, which means 10S2P pack would be able to deliver just 15A safely, which is too close to typical e-scooter consumption of 12-13A...>>1949696As for generic scooter in the OP, it did charge to 42.0V in the end, but I kept it charging/balancing for a bit more.Tomorrow I will see if it would do any better. 13 km to beat.
This is how I see Ninebot ESx
>>1950341Okay.... What have happened is that in noname scooter welds have failed, and since i tried to pull off the tabs, i pierced the cell open. Welp, fuck.
later that day... >>1917453
>>1949696I don't understand what you're talking about, so it's no stretch of the imagination that some underpaid chink wouldn't either, or care if they did.
>>1950480It was a close call. I shorted 2 cells, and one was pierced. No fire... yet.Good thing they were charged to 3.7V per cell
I'm looking at my 26 normal cells, 3 burned and one with a hole...Maybe I don't need 36V on scooter. With 24V battery (7S4P) it would go up to 25 km/h (which is legal and reasonable) and losses in battery would be lower, and losses in controller would be lower too. Anyone tried undervolting/overvolting scooters/ebikes? What did happen to wh/km in your case?
>>1950695A top speed of 25 kph may be adequate for you, but you'll be missing out on torque so you're acceleration and ability to climb hills will be significantly diminished. I'd keep it at 36V.
>>1950762>but you'll be missing out on torque so you're acceleration >and ability to climb hills will be significantly diminished.Why though. If current is the same, so given speed is sufficiently low, torque should be exactly the same.Or phase current is different from battery current even on dumb square-wave controllers?
>>1950767I don't know why, I'm not an electrical engineer. I've never used an electric scooter, but for RC cars, electric airsoft guns, battery powered fans, etc. lower voltage battery = less torque.
>>1950780ESCs for RCs are very different, they don't limit current like e-bike/scooter controllers do. They rely on the fact that MOSFETs have headroom and motor resistance is high enough to limit current to acceptable levels. For matter of fact, most ESCs don't even know what kind of current is flowing through the motor, as they don't have current shunts.E-bike (e-scooter) controller needs to have current limit, because winding resistance is so low in most e-bike motors, it would draw insane amount of current from the battery, which would burn the motor, and would require transistors from idk, a train or something, ones that can handle kiloamperes lol. Even at low RPM throttle position. In other words, in RC world torque is the product of battery voltage and resistance of motor, and in e-bike it's a product of current limit of controller (which is much lower than voltage / resistance ). At least I think so.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBPwZzBhCvESodium Ion cells are real. Are they the future of e-bikes? In capacity they are comparable to lithium cells in 2010-2012. Not great, but given low cost might be acceptable. Seem to be more safe in terms of fires too. Very similar to lithium batteries in terms of manufacturing, with same compounds, except, well, lithium, so production can be sped up fast.Even if they won't become a viable option for cars, it would be great for solar shit, which will reduce demand on lithium which will make it cheaper to have more lithium batteries in vehicles. Also, where tf chinks from aliexpress got them? Mass production test run got recycled by selling to random dudes?
>>1951014https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1ya_ls1zkAHmmm... It's a bit more spicy pressure-wise, but less spicy fire-wise.
>>1950785If you use the controller to put out more amps to compensate for the lower voltage you're going to generate more heat and likely lower the energy efficiency and lifetime of the motor. You'll also put more load on the mosfets which will have the same effect.
>>1952397I had to double and tripple check. Motor controller only cares about motor current. So on 36V it would consume less current, than on 24V in order to achieve same power. But. Motor controller is also converts (steps down) whatever battery voltage to match BEMF voltage of the motor, which is dependent on speed. And here is a thing. BEMF of motor at 25 km/h is aprox 24V, which is much closer to 7S Li-ion battery voltage range, than 10S Li-ion. This means that efficiency of motor controller would be higher on 24V, because all DC-DC converters are more efficient if output and input voltages are close.So, overall, what's gonna happen? 1) Acceleration from zero won't change (as controller keeps same motor current)2) DC Current would increase for same amount of power because there is no free energy. Doesn't matter much as wires are short. 3) 25 km/h would become new max speed, as you can't push more current when Vbat < Vbemf4) Efficiency would increase slightlyTwo last points will lead to higher efficiency, because of air resistance (as now scooter is slower), but also because Vbat is much closer to Vbemf (80% -> 90%, which means extra 1.6 km, but probably more because battery was also fucked). But you know, physics paper calculate all is fucking useless, until I do the test.
Modded controller to run on 24V.... I wish there was a firmware editor from manufacturer, but no, we use analog methods
>>1952559It does turn off at around 20.3V (as it should) and by accident I found BEMF at 25 km/h which is 23.8V.What does it all mean? Well.100% = 29.4V : would definitely go up to 25 km/h, maybe a bit faster75% = 26.04V : probably would go up to 25 km/h, but with less acceleration at top50% = 24.5V : maybe won't go up to 25km/h anymore25% = 23.8V : probably would go 20-22 km/h7S might be too little voltage, 8S might be a bit better, but whatever.As a side effect this scooter is legal now lol
>>1949696is there a company that makes safe ebike batteries for cheap or do i gotta learn to solder and make one myself?
>>1952865>is there a company that makes safe ebike batteries for cheapNothing in battery is cheap. Good cells are expensive (even good Chinese cells).Good BMS is... Well, good BMS is not that expensive, but better BMS with UART/BT monitoring kinda is. Cell holders are surprisingly expensive too. Insulation material are cheap, but you need a lot of them of different kinds. (fiberglass composite, paper gaskets, kapton, foam tape, etc)And you need somebody competent enough to assemble all of this. So unfortunately, no, cheap and good is hard to achieve. >do i gotta learn to solder and make one myself?First of all, you don't solder cells. It is not recommended by manufacturers of the cells. All of them. You use spot welding, and it is quite a specialized piece of equipment, that has no other uses, except making batteries. Then you have to solder balance wires and power wires.It isnt hard, but you need to know what the fuck you're doing, and you clearly don't know.
>>1952919>>1952865That said, I don't know about e-bikes, but in world of e-scooters Ninebot/Segway/Xiaomi make pretty good safe batteries. Well, with exception of ES and E series. Maybe there are some e-bikes with battery as good. You can use that battery, but be ready to bypass BMS (or change it) since Ninebot battery, for example, won't supply enough current if it doesn't have data connection with controller.
>>1952919well no i dont know what im doing yet but i can learnid probably start with a very small battery to figure it outgotta start somewhereso would making a battery myself actually be much cheaper than just buying one?and are there any companies that actually do it properly?am i gonna be paying a premium for it to be built properly?
>>1952934il look into those but idk if any of those companies even make batteries suitable for ebikes
>>1952959Well, they are purpose built batteries for specific e-scooters. So it is not really straight forward to make an e-bike battery out of those. But maybe it is a good option if you can get your hands on some decommissioned (or stolen lol) rental scooter. >>1952957>id probably start with a very small battery to figure it out>gotta start somewhereI would say that it's not that great of an idea to start with batteries at all. First I'd assemble couple electronics circuit and get familiar with basic components like MOSFETs, resistors, etc. And get familiar with soldering and such. After you know something (you don't need to have an EE degree in order to assemble a battery from off-the-shelf components), you can figure out why BMS is needed, what is balancing, what kind of fuses to use, and idk. Where to put kapton tape, where to use normal tape, and where to use fish paper. There are a lot of guides on the internet that are kinda shitty. I'd suggest looking on high quality factory battery packs, how are they made, etc. >so would making a battery myself actually be much cheaper than just buying one?Hard to say. Depends what are you gonna do. New cells and stuff built up to high standards? Probably would be more expensive than factory battery, but at least 100% headache-free. Used cells from e-waste would be definitely cheap, but its a bit... sketchy. >and are there any companies that actually do it properly?Maybe. Ones that make custom battery packs. >am i gonna be paying a premium for it to be built properly?Yep.I will find some example of shitty batteries, good batteries and mediocre batteries.
>>1952965Most common fuck ups I see people do. I'm not professional and this won't let you pass UN 38.8 but if somebody assembles batteries, out of new cells, with following issues, don't get cell from them.
>>1952981Oh, other thing, it is to use high temp wires such as XLPE, silicone, teflon, or fep.PVC might be cheaper, but it might melt in extreme circumstances. Heat resistant insulations won't do that as easily.
>>1952965>>1952981>>1952983thankshonestly the whole battery thing is almost putting me off ebikes
>>1953088What kind of e-bike are you trying to build? Like power, battery capacity, etc.Other thing, not all mistakes listed in >>1952981 are exactly dangerous, just not ideal.e.g. no insulation between balance leads and cells is not that bad if wires are heat-resistant. I would say most grave mistakes are not putting a fuse in series with B+ or B- before BMS, not using spacers/insulation between cells and on + pole, using heatshrink as only protection material.You can probably get away with soldering if you're fast, but manufacturers of cells advice you not to do this. Other thing, is choice of cells. Try finding cells whose max current output is 1.25 - 1.5 times of typical current you'd draw from them. Using cells with no current margin would result in early death of cell, overheating and capacity way less than advertised. Using cells with insanely high discharge rate might seem logical, but high discharge cells fail violent (i.e. 10A discharge cell might smoke and catch on fire, 30A discharge cell will get so hot it will shoot molten metal out of the vent).Other thing, different chemistries are different. LiFePO4 while has less energy density, is much safer and works well at negative temperatures.NMC has higher energy density, but is less safe and doesn't work as nice when it is cold. Some older chemistries, like pure cobalt oxide and manganese oxide are less safe and less dense. Maybe it is a good idea to use LFP cells instead of NMC. But yeah, I've no experience with LiFePO4, cuz I'm too poor to get new cells, and all my cells are re-used, and thus I don't give as much of a fuck about fire.Or idk, maybe wait until sodium ion cells get a bit cheaper and more mass produced.
>>1953119But yeah. Maybe it is a better idea to buy more-less good battery pack, inspect it and improve? Like remove stock BMS that probably doesn't balance cells, and install new BMS that does balance cells and a fuse? In other words, do some research, look for disassembly videos of e-bike batteries, etc.
>>1953119well i know its gonna be 48vhavnt decided how big yet maybe 20ah?its gonna be used with a 500w mid drive motorim also concerned about the whole ewaste thingidk if theres a solution to that id like my bike to not be contributing to the destruction of nature too much>>1953138ive been wathcing videos about this already but i still dont really get it batteries for evs seem waaaay more complicated than the rc batteries im used to
>>1953146>well i know its gonna be 48v>havnt decided how big yet maybe 20ah?>its gonna be used with a 500w mid drive motorWith capacity this big, even low-discharge cells (2C) would be fine for 500W motor which consumes probably 1kW peak. Still, maybe 3C or 4C would be better as they would give out more capacity. >im also concerned about the whole ewaste thing>idk if theres a solution to that id like my bike to not be contributing to the destruction of nature too muchI'm not that concerned about that :D. But you can try getting used cells, they are dirt cheap and they might have 50-80% of capacity left, which made them unusable for whatever device they were used for, but if weight isn't a concern, it might be a good choice for ebike. That said, e-waste cells are unpredictable, some might last for years, while other might die or be unsafe, and I'd not care enough to buy a welder for trash-found cells and solder them, since there would be pieces of nickel stuck to terminals which would make welding them a pain. Or sometimes you can get cells from totaled electric car. Which is great since cells there are from top manufacturers and not much wear at all.>ive been wathcing videos about this already but i still dont really get it batteries for evs seem waaaay more complicated than the rc batteries im used toRC batteries are simple. They are just cells connected with no protection what so ever. They are meant to be lightweight and used with special chargers with balance leads etc. E-bike batteries are different. 1) They are bigger. -> bigger risk of fire2) They are subject to vibrations -> holders/insulation3) Weight is not a concert -> additional safety like BMS (which is pretty much mandatory on ebike battery), fuses, thermistors, etc.4) They are charged using dumb CC-CV chargerE-bike battery is basically a cross-bred between a laptop battery (which is weak, but has all protections) and RC battery (which has power).
>>1953154thanku il take all this into consideration
>>1953710bought pic related near the start of the year but barely riding it because my town is hilly as fuck. thinking about converting it to an ebike.do any anons have experience with conversion kits and buying battery packs from china.https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005897004693.htmlcurrently what i am looking at but no clue if these batteries will be any good
>>1953727I don't know anything about mid motors, so I can't really comment on this. (with hub motors its real simple, you just install it in front wheel, use some motor controller and whatever throttle/display thingy, and here is your e-bike. Limitation is that hub motors are heavy, which means you can't get powerful motors, or they would affect handling).As for batteries, it is really hard to say anything. It's a generic enclosure, and inside you can have anything from a fire hazard to a decent battery pack. If you believe info on their site, batteries use either Chinese cells (DLG) or brand-name cells. But thing is that cells are only half of the battery. Other half is how is it made? What kind of BMS did they use? Did they use fuses? Did they use paper gaskets? From their amazon listing, battery is "meh". https://www.amazon.com/DERUIZ-Battery-Lithium-Electric-Mountain/dp/B09C89RZGRCan't really call it an instant fire hazard, but they could have used paper gaskets on positive pole, and what kind of BMS did they use is a mystery.What is good is that enclosure is plastic, so chance of direct short to metal is really low. I'd be ready to disassemble it and inspect, and have $20 ready for replacement BMS just in case stock one doesn't have balancing, because lack of balancing will kill even good cells.
>>1953729damni was just reading the pic up here >>1952981 about good batteriesthat makes it even more complicated damni liked that listing because it had the battery and motor full kitits 200 shipping for each if i buy separately
>>1953731I look closer on their amazon page... Looks like they are using a holder that covers negative part on the positive cell, so maybe it is equivalent to having a paper gasket. And fact they use holders is good too, as it ensures there is a separation between cells.So I'd say it is probably fine. But then, I don't know what's inside for sure.Personally, I would get LG/Samsung and just disassemble it, disassemble the BMS and inspect if it has any sort of balancing (google translate label on BMS, and then remove heatsink or fiberglass to see if it has low-resistance high power resistors anywhere), and in case it doesn't, just replace the BMS with one that does have all the things. Maybe add the fuse while I'm at it. After all, what's cheaper, disassemble and spend extra $20 on BMS with balancing, or throw away whole lot of cells just there were no balancing and some cells did cycle from 4.2V to 2.8V, while others from 3.8 to 3V (for example), and because of this weaker cells became weaker, and stronger cells stayed the same.
>>1953732Also, it's an e-bike battery, it can be easily disassembled unlike scooter battery which is shrink wrapped and yeah, awful.
>>1953733>>1953732thanks anon, now to triple check that the fucker will actually fit into my bike.and then decide if i want to fork out the extra 300 bucks for 52v instead of 48v
Does anybody has a Kukirin m5 or g3? What is its reaI range? I don't trust chinks
>>1954220I think Kugoos had pretty shitty battery packs. Mainly BMS was awful with no balancing, which killed batteries in no time. Real range is... Well, if it was E-TWOW knock off one (S3 I think) it would be 13-15 w-h per km. M5 goes faster and has wider tires, so probaby 20 w-h per km, i.e. 48 km. Idk. No experience with bigger scooters.
>>1954229Then Should I buy a dualtron mini or a kugoo? I need mid-speed (25 - 40 kph) and atleast 50km. range
>>1954401>Then Should I buy a dualtron mini or a kugoo?Dualtron probably has better build quality and might have a better battery pack. Still, I would disassemble the battery pack and check BMS, because warranty is fucking useless anyway, no matter the country, and it is much cheaper to buy shrinkwrap and BMS than replace battery in 6 months. Or house lol. >I need mid-speed (25 - 40 kph)They both are capable of 50 km/h I think. > and atleast 50km. rangeThat's tricky. Because both Dualtron Mini and Kugoo M5/G3 have similar sized battery, and since motors and motor controllers are about the same in terms of efficiency, you'd get exactly the same range. Given nobody lied about the battery.Also range depends on speed, because at some point your air drag changes from linear to quadratic, and I think that transition happens somewhere around 20-25 km/h. Other phenomenon is that all owners of e-scooter tend to lie about range. Idk why. Again, im talking from my ass, i've not even seen either of those IRL, let alone ride one.
>>1954417Damn thanks alot anonSeems I'l go for the dualtron or similar. The chink told me it couln't be delivered to my shitty country anyways
>>1954401>>1954417Not that guy but Dualtrons have good electronics and battery packs, but with extremely shitty frame designs. I've owned an Ultra and it's creaky piece of shit and requires an aftermarket headset bearing cup and stem kit if you don't want to keep on replacing it. Every other owner I've come across with new and older models have also had loose stem issues over time and loud ass creaks which will not go away even with greasing after a while due to the way the scooter is designed causing tolerance issues developing on the deck and steering adapter. They're apparently finally going to address the creak and stem issues with their next gen of scooter by completely going with a new frame and steering design and ditching their previous copy paste formula but who knows if that's going to actually happen.
>>1954953>I've owned an Ultra and it's creaky piece of shit and requires an aftermarket headset bearing cup and stem kit if you don't want to keep on replacing itThat's... surprisingly close to shit I have. Shengte (which is apparently OEM Speedway 3 mini but worse cuz chinks had freedom to save last rmb). Steering bearing is awful too much play even if you tighten the living hell from it, but I just don't give a fuck lol, too slow to care. >creaksI don't consider creaks and rattles a serious flaw, given stuff won't crack.
>>1955039hmmm how tf dualtron steering even works lolthere is no nut on top?
>>1955039It's a serious design flaw because the creaks caused by the frame and it's parts literally prying itself apart and wearing down contact points and screw holes. There's only so much grease and loctite can do before the whole scooter becomes loose. On some of the dualtron scooters the manual even recommends replacing the entire steering tube assembly including the stem and tube adapters just about every 2 years, probably because they flex, bend, and wobble so damn much no matter what you do or what clamp you use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYHFcRpZo0gNot really related to the topic, but have anyone here used an e-bike with NiCD or NiMH? Its kinda... Interesting to hear wtf e-bikes were before the lithium batteries, because I imagine capacity was absolute dogshit.
>>1953727try installing lower gearing firsti live in an extremely hilly area and cant afford an ebike kitbut i can afford a smaller granny gear and a bigger cassette + derailleur hanger extensionid still like an ebike but for now its saved me i can climb any hill effortlessly... eventually
>>1953736nah 48v is fine i doubt its worth it
>>1949696op i love youwe really need people out there with youre knowledge doing battery reviews and spreading awareness of how bad these things can be and how low the bar is for safetythis could be a whole genre of youtube videos just of battery teardownsit could genuinely improve the dangerously low standards were all having to put up with right now
>>1956207>we really need people out there with youre knowledge doing battery reviews and spreading awareness of how bad these things can be and how low the bar is for safetyThis is very unlikely. All e-scooter (and probably e-bike) reviewers are kinda... Like tech reviewers, just an advertisement mouthpieces.All they care is how fast it goes, and sometimes how many km of range. Which unfortunately is less useful than "how many cupholders" type of car reviewers, and those suck too lol. I personally would like to see a review from an engineer or mechanic/technician where (s)he makes a review about the technical side, rather than just pure range/reaction shit. Where (s)he disassembles the scooter, points out potential weak spots, or even better, reviews an older scooter with a problem.There are so many fucks ups in PEVs. Can't say much about e-bikes, but e-scooters are horrible. Serious issues that existed in 2012 still exist. And you know, it's not just the battery. It could be the weak frame for example.>this could be a whole genre of youtube videos just of battery teardownsThere are couple channels that do this. First one that comes to mind is https://www.youtube.com/@TheBatteryDoctorMany more in Russian, but idk. It seems like outside of the eastern block people don't repair things, or tinker with them. Hell, maybe there are chinese videos about chinese batteries, who knows lol>it could genuinely improve the dangerously low standards were all having to put up with right nowSaddest part is that money doesn't really tell what you're getting. You can pay a lot, and battery would be 5/10. Like an aliexpress laptop charger, that can shock you, or doesn't have EMC suppression, but not necessarily. Or sometimes you pay not much, and you get properly designed battery pack.
Speaking of shit batterieshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgl6I3A1naAThis could be the reason behind fires during charging.
It's all about the weight.If you want 100 km range, your e-scooter should be around 50 to 60 kilogram.If you brought a typical 14 kilogram e-scooter, expect it to run out of batteries every time you get from from the supermarket.
>>1956221>If you brought a typical 14 kilogram e-scooter, expect it to run out of batteries every time you get from from the supermarket.Thing with battery in the OP is following. >ninebot ES2>10S2P, 5.6 Ah total, 187 WhRuns out out of battery every time I get from the shartmart. Which is about 10 km. It usually has about 10-15% remaining and since BMS has coulomb meter, its pretty much accurate.>Speedway 3 mini, but without Minimotors>10S3P, was listed as 10 Ah, but in reality 7.8Ah, and thus 280 Wh, 33% more than ninebotRuns out exactly after same distance, or sometimes even less.So one day, it made me think, like wtf. It can't be that consumption of that scooter is that much higher, I tried swapping front tire from soft and inefficient (well, tire efficiency is a rabbithole on its own) to one from Ninebot ES2, which is rock solid tire that is more efficient*. Nothing really changed.So I disassembled the battery, found out it is not 10 ah, but 7.8... And there was cell imbalance, like 4.25V to 3.8V. Which is not normal, but isn't something that would kill battery instantly (after all, scooter has about 600-800 km, idk how much exactly because odometer did reset itself at some point lol). So I decided to change BMS that does balancing, and at the time it looked like that's the only issue, shitty non-balancing BMS, and since cells are chinese (and thus manufacturing tolerance is greater), I thought they just got out of balance that fast. Whatever. Test drive it again, battery cuts out after 8 km, which makes no sense what so ever, and way it did cut out was weird, because it eventually did come on again, and I didn't notice any performance penalty... until I hit a bump on the road, when shit turned off again. So I disassembled it again, and I found broken welds, which I probably didn't notice first time. Tried to disassemble the battery and ended up piercing a cell.Well, fuck. Now I have 29 cells, not 30. (cont)
>>1956225You bought a 12 kilogram e-scooter, so that shit range is what you will get.This is your own fault.
>>1956225>Well, fuck. Now I have 29 cells, not 30. (cont)So, I decided I will make 7S4P pack, which would be 24V. Scooter top speed will decrease (45 km/h idle -> 31 km/h idle.... Unknown top speed -> 25 km/h), torque should stay the same since controller is maintaining the same phase current which basically represents torque. Not so simple, but in general yes. I changed 36V controller to operate on 24V by adjusting voltage divider in controller, so now controller is officially 24V. After this I realized I'm a dumbass and that I have 40 good used LG M26 cells lying around, but then I thought about it, maybe it is just better to convert entire shit to 29V, because going above 25 km/h is illegal in my country (like if anyone cares lol), and most importantly, its quite scary to go faster than that on scooter that has no front brakes like at all... So in the end I will make 35 cell battery pack (10S5P), which should give me about 17 km. And im still waiting for parts, like 29.4V charger, 7S BMS, and battery holder (well, connecting PCB, since I've no spot welder and I will solder cells to it).>>1956221>If you want 100 km range, your e-scooter should be around 50 to 60 kilogram.You know, back in 2012 you could get a scooter with lead acid... :D That shit prob was like 30 kg, and did definitely classify as children toy. Other thing, it's kinda hard to do 100 km on e-scooter, unless it is an illegal undocumented moped that goes fast :DIdk anything about big scooters. They aren't really suitable for me, since they have exactly the same drawback as bicycles, they tend to evaporate when you go to shartmart, especially in low income area, but with my scooter, i can put it inside shopping cart, dab on security and latest science research says that keeping eye on scooters reduces evaporation rate.
>>1956228Problem is way worse than just shit range. Shit range is to be expected (well, I expected 20-25 km from it really), but I got scammed twice, first with incorrect listing of capacity, second time with shitty quality of assembly.
>>1956229>You know, back in 2012 you could get a scooter with lead acidNot e-scooters. They didn't take off until Xiaomi launched their meme-scoot.No e-scooters are sold with lead batteries.>>1956231sucks to be you. I'm doing fine with mine, and I don't even pay for the electricity. So the giga battery is a massive benefit to me.
>>1956232>sucks to be you. I'm doing fine with mine, and I don't even pay for the electricity. So the giga battery is a massive benefit to me.That's why I want 20km range battery, so I can steal electricity too. Ninebot is fine, but I have to charge it at home which is unkosher. >Not e-scooters. They didn't take off until Xiaomi launched their meme-scoot.They existed way before Xiaomi. First thing that comes to mind is Egret One (2012 Google: "egret one trottinette before:2013" pic related ), E-TWOW S1(2013? https://web.archive.org/web/20131204122715/http://en.e-twow.cn/)And something with dead acid like idk Razor, but there were better off-road ones, that had at least motor of some power. Can't remember of any, because they were shit nor I wans't interested in them back then.Xiaomi came later, in 2017 or 2016 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiaomi_M365) and spoiled industry a bit with shitty knock offs of it. I think first note-worthy scooter Ninebot/Xiaomi made was Max. Fixed pretty much all fuck ups of M365... And about ES2 we don't talk cuz its shit.
>>1956234>That's why I want 20km range battery,You will want more than that. They just last longer, and you don't have to leech that often.a 50kilogram scoot means you only have to charge it one or twice a month.
>>1956235That's all nice, but there are a few factors that make 50 kg less viable than shitty 10-15 kg 8 inch nosedive simulators. 1) N- thieves. Even if you get thick ass lock, they have a grinder they stole from hardware store. 2) I have to take train, because there is no pathway or bike lane between two towns.2a) I can't take train with 50 kg escooter, because I'd have hard time lifting it every fucking day upstairs2b) Two towns are connected by three roads. One of them is paid highway, so 120 km/h limits and no sidewalk. Other is shitty highway twisty with limit of 60 km/h, but people do 100+ km/h, and guardrail there is chewed, so if you use sidewalk, somebody would have to remain meat from it one day, and if you ride that road/highway, somebody would have to remove meat but from other side, because eventually either you will fall over (doubt there is enough stability in e-scooter to go as fast as motorcycle, esp in curves), or somebody will just push u lol. And third road has no sidewalk and is more twisty so people do go there 40 or so km/h, but it goes through area so shit, it's like this meme https://www.youtube.com/shorts/gI-TL2OeYPA ... And quite possibly somebody would find body in the woods couple weeks later, if you resist lol.
>>1956237Yeah, you're retarded. You don't have to spend monye on the train when your e-scooter has +100 km range.All roads in europe have lanes for bikes. Even those out in the country.
>>1956239>Yeah, you're retarded. You don't have to spend monye on the train when your e-scooter has +100 km range.I cannot go on road anywhere I said without fucking dying. Are you stupid or where?Road A) Paid highway with 120 km/h limit. Unsuitable for escooters, because no license plate for toll booth shit, and its a highway, so no bicycles allowed. They would call polis for doing retaded shit, and when they see your illegal scooter, they are more than happy to confiscate it and fine you. B) Second road. Unsuitable for escooter because super busy and super dangerous. Cliff from one side, abyss from other, narrow as fuck, and twisty, with most of people going unreasonably fast there, which results in all fucking guardrails chewed up. On both sides, from the side of abyss, and from the side of cliff.C) Twisty road through nigger area. Unsuitable in general. Prob worse than first two, despite technically being safer.There are NO OTHER ROADS. AT ALL. NONE. Not even pathways through forest,mountains,etc. Problem isn't distance (total distance < 20 km), problem is this fucking place. Well, I lied, there are more routes, but they are like 60-70 km hook one way? With insane inclination gradient, so 100 km of ur scooter will become like 40 at best? >All roads in europe have lanes for bikes. Even those out in the country.Do I look like I live in Europe? Or in big city in general? Anyway, if you think I'm dumb and you can ride there, welcome. While liveleak is no longer a thing, doesn't mean you won't get shown on the news in disassembled form behind blurred pixels.
>>1956242>I cannot go on road anywhere I said without fucking dying. Are you stupid or where?>RoadI cannot go on any road*
>>1956242Even Africa has better roads than your shithole I guess.Suck s to be you.
You just know your shithole is fucked up if a random african country has better road conditions than you. KEKLEL
>>1956245Africa is flat so they can do whatever. Hell, they can even not build road if it is dry most part of the year.Here it is not flat. There isn't much place to place a road. You can't fit 4 lane road with bike lane. It is not economically viable to make tunnel. And you've no other choice, because lol mountains.Not gonna lie, they should have decommissioned the train, and built a road there. Cuz train is fucking useless.
>>1956247In China they dig up tunnels for breakfast.>It is not economically viable to make tunnel.The state shouldn't have to care about economy, its only job is to repel invaders and facilitate commerce for the citizens.
That's neat. The Chinese even have bike lanes out in the nowhere mountains just in case some crazy guy wants to travel into the wilderness on his e-scooter or bicycle.
>>1956248>In China they dig up tunnels for breakfast.China has much bigger population so it makes economical sense. When population is small, they have pp measuring contest going on. >The state shouldn't have to care about economy,State doesn't have infinite money. So they have to spend it according to the value it brings to the society, or more precisely, how much taxbucks it generates. Maintaining road? yeah, without road commerce doesn't work. Bikelane? Cyclists are worthless, pay no tax. Actually, there you can't even reliably cycle because of the height gradient. I'm looking googlemaps now, its even worse than I remember it. There is no sidewalk at all, nor highway shoulder. So pretty much 2 car only roads, 1 niggerhood road and train. >>1956249That's not a cycle lane, that's shoulder of the highway, you're not supposed to cycle there. But chink police is nice, they take bribes, so you can do whatever the fuck you want. Still doesn't make it any less sketchy.
Is this bullshit?
>>1956249>put a white strip of paint next to a box truck going 150km/hr>there's your bike lane broBike lane pushers should be rounded up and shot
>>1956392This. If you're doing something, do it proper. >>1956388I'd say it would go 75 km on one charge.Again, Kinda impossible to tell by pic wtf is going on, because it all is assembled from generic Chinese components, and devil is in the detailsAlso that metal fender in the back looks like a cut hazard, idk.
>>1956388>>1956396I tested the 1,3 kWh models, they can reach 55km at 30 km/h, wit some spare battery to go.Probably 60km in total.
how the fuck do I remove this? There's no screws left and I want to replace the folding base
>>1956761What scooter is that? It should work like a clamp, can you show the other side?
>>1956763>>1956762it's a generic copy.
>>1956766Hm, odd. Can you take pic from this degree?If it is made like M365, you should be able to undo bolts and it should come off, but it doesn't look like it.
>>1956767I tried from the bottom and there was a 2'' screw I removed it but only the mudguard came off
>>1956770It's a very odd design. How long was the top bolt?
>>1956388The faster you go the more your range is reduced.
>>1956772Maybe it is like bike steering wedge thing? I'd try giving it couple whacks and see it if would come off.
>>1956249>The Chinese even have bike lanesThats not a bike lane.That is a wide shoulder so you can have somebody walking next to a utility vehicle with a crash bumper and inspect on foot. Or occupy a lane to do minor repairs without closing down the bridge.
>>1956775Alright it came out.Now I need to remove the folding thing from the pipe with out breaking it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaEBaBpvk5QI've re-wrapped LG M26s and tested them. 70 mOhm and 88 mOhm ESR. Fucking garbage, they aren't even that old!So yeah. LG is shit. I guess only good cell is Panasonic/Sanyo, but they all are low discharge rate.
How do you test a battery for amp hour capacity?
>>1959557This one is probably fake.Price of 2500 mAh 18650 cells is approx $2-4. Let's say $3. 20AH 48V battery would have 104 cells in it, or total price of 312 dollars.129.90 < 312, and since there is no free energy in this universe, its a scam. Furthermore, these battery packs use shittiest cells imaginable, 700-1200 mAh noname cells. This would be fine for idk, clock radio or flashlight, but for e-scooter or e-bike this is just no. >How do you test a battery for amp hour capacity?Discharge it, either with constant current (in which case, time X current is your amp-hours)Or with a resistor (in which case you need to integrate current over time to get amp-hours and watt-hours)If you think you can win a case with chinks and get free battery this way, its unlikely. They will tell you "you're measuring it wrong" or whatever.
>>1959968I checked other listing, they claim it is 13S3P... Which can't get you 20 AH even with namebrand cells. So what you'd get is 3-6 AH 48V.not to mention shit quality of assembly, BMS, etc.
>>1949696A German firm built a reliable escooter running on cordless drill batteries (2x 5.2Ah 18V-rated = 187 Wattstunden). Good brakes, quality wheels, reliable materials, lights/horn/etc, wireless turn-on key, street legal, etc.Each of the Einhell batteries contains 10x 18650 cells and internal smart BMS.Sadly Elmoto Kiko launch price was ~930€bucks. Literally one grand. They sold at best one hundred of them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxX06ZLfA90
>>1960085>930€bucksThat's too much. 1100 Euro is supposed to be the entry price point for the Megascooters with 80+ km long range.European scooter industry will never take off with that approach. The Chinese batteries have reached levels of "good enough" despite the autism in here.In the same way smartphone cameras won just by being "good enough".
>>1960085>2x 5.2Ah 18V-rated = 187 WattstundenThat's... barely anything. >>1960201>That's too much. 1100 Euro is supposed to be the entry price point for the Megascooters with 80+ km long range.Exactly.While tool battery concept is neat, tool batteries are also extremely overpriced. >>1949696Anyway, I've recieved BMS. Re-used original cells (28 of them) in 7S4P config. I wont post battery because its ugly and i kinda broke couple of rules I posted here about good battery pack lol. But yeah, dynamics: got more lazy, because controller is apparently dumb, it doesn't regulate output current, but only input current. So I'd have to do something about it, but that's not a priority as it is comparable to Ninebot ESx. Problem is range. Again. Well, at least battery didnt die at random, but after 9 km it went from 29.0V to 25.0V (24V under load of idk how much amps). That's kinda pathetic as it consumed 228 Wh, which equals to 25 wh per KM. That's.... awful. What the fuck can consume so much energy? Is tire underinflated or what?Top speed was 25 km/h as I predicted.
>>1960512Okay, battery took in 7.15 ah already (191 wh)I guess shits fine and problem isnt electrical but prob tire pressure low
>>1960611pf. tire was at 1.5 bars or so.... maybe this was the reason?
>>1949696How do I replace the battery packs on a Jerson bolt? They are fucking Ni-Cad FFS!
>>1960664>They are fucking Ni-Cad FFS!Are you sure about that? But yes, you definitely can replace the battery pack, but you need to buy a proper pack and you might need to change the charger too
>>1960675*JetsonYes, its shocking, I know. Would it be worth it to get a job at say a recycling center to harvest battery cells? The handheld power packs I know get dropped so much (drop them myself all the time), id think that only fucks up one cell, and the rest would be fine, til they start making 3D0 cases for the packs.
>>1960689>Yes, its shocking, I know.How old is it, because I thought most e-bikes made since 2010 are lithium powered. And I can't find any mentioning of NiCad on their site. >The handheld power packs You don't want to use those. Powerbanks have shittiest cells, usually li-po which are glued and impossible to remove without damaging.You want laptop cells. They are much better cells.
>>1960654Anyway... Inflated tire, charged battery. 9.15 km and 170 wh wasted. So 18.57 Wh/km... Not great. But I think switching to 24V didn't do much to the efficiency, but made it a bit slower (I need to increase controller current which i wont do because these scooters are notoriuous to burn their motors out and lower current might save it lol). Soooo as a way of getting around fucked up battery with no money? Yep, acceptable. Designing scooter with 24V battery (and same KV motor) - eh no. I think 8S would be the best fit, but 10S (36V) is much more common so makes sense why did e-scoote rmanufacturer use 36v battery.
My electric scooter hub wheel isn't spinning freely and I'm not even able to coast in a decline. Checked the brakes and it seems to be fine. Any ideas what maybe wrong with it?
>>1961225Bearings might be shot. In worst case scenario short in the windings. Also cold be controller shorted
>>1961229>>1961225well, given you can still ride it (I guess) probably bearings. What scooter? Did you have rain and puddles on the road?
>>1961250Generic one. Yeah, roads are shit so lots of water. >>1961229Is there a way to fix it? It's still running but I stopped using it ever since. Seller says it could be the hall sensor. I have no clue desu.
>>1961329>Generic one. Well, any photos? >Yeah, roads are shit so lots of water.Then probably bearings. Most scooters aren't suitable for riding during rain or through puddles, and all of those IPXX ratings are a lie. >Is there a way to fix it?Yes. You disassemble the motor, remove the covers and then remove bearings ether from axle or cover. In some designs you need to remove the stator, which can be quite dangerous if you don't know what you're doing as fingers can get stuck between rotor and stator and squished by magnets, so thick gloves are highly advisable for this. Plus stator is kinda sharp and will cut skin.Once you have bearings removed you look wtf is written on them, measure and buy similar ones. If you buy namebrand (SKF, FAG, NSK, NTN), they would last longer because they have good seals. If you buy Chinese or Indian, well, depends. Some are junk, some are OK. It is 6/10 difficulty repair. You might need bench-vice, socket set, hammer, random pieces of wood, pullers, maybe even stringshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZvMwVyzFO0Smth like this. Also heatgun / torch might help too, but be careful with those as u can damage magnets. >Seller says it could be the hall sensor. I have no clue desu.If scooter can coast when turned off, then its an electrical issue. But hall sensor usually results in vibrations and increased power consumption.
>>1961338>videoDo not silicone. It might seem like a good idea, but thing is that it wont waterproof much, but that bead will prevent water from getting out of there.
>>1961338>Most scooters aren't suitable for riding during rain or through puddles, and all of those IPXX ratings are a lie.I figured as much.I have zero tools. Might just have to get it repaired by another dude.
>>1961359There is a big chance other side has screws too -> motor has 2 lids, which makes changing bearings that much easier and has minimal risk of squishing hands as you don't really need to remove stator from magnets.But first, easy stuff>that dark line between rim and tireAre you sure you have enough air in the tire? Puncture or wrong pressure produces a lot of drag too, and I think that might be a sealant leaking which would suggest pressure is low. Idk, doesn't look like water to me.
>>1961365that actually fixed it. thanks anon. I'm so fucking retarded. Should I still open it up just to be sure? I'm gonna ask someone I know who has the tools and know how to do it though.
>>1961567>Should I still open it up just to be sure?Give it a spin, if you don't hear crackling/whistling/rumbling typical to shit dead bearings, then I'd just leave it.>that actually fixed it. thanks anon. I'm so fucking retarded.Don't worry, tire pressure made ME figure out wtf is wrong with battery, and while there were issues with it, tire was the main culprit lol.
>>1961569>Give it a spin, if you don't hear crackling/whistling/rumbling typical to shit dead bearings, then I'd just leave it.no sounds thankfully. Good eye anon. I was cleaning it and I thought it was just shit stuck to my tire. I had to rush out and buy some sealant after reading your post.On another note, how difficult is it to change the controller and throttle? I currently have a twist throttle and want to change it into trigger one. Pic related is the controller.
>>1961571Well, it depends on the scooter. In some cases you can just disconnect it and connect other throttle or display+throttle, but compatibility isn't given as there are 9000 standards.You can also just solder a wire from current throttle to new throttle. In some cases it might be just more vise to change controller + throttle
>>1961579More wise*But yeah, if you have Hall sensors, any controller would work. If no, again, not given
>>1961579>>1961580So it would just be better to buy a controller and pair it with an actual compatible throttle?
>>1961599Maybe. But can you show the current throttle thingy?
>>1961601Well, I'd try keeping the controller, because junk you get from aliexpress is neither FOC nor SPWM, just trapezoidal shit.
>>1960715It has a cadmium warning on the handlebar stem.
>>1949696Dude china fucks everything
>>1961684Wow. And when that shit was manufacturer? With NiCD you can try recovering them btw, by giving them burst of really high charge current.
>>1962019It shouldn't be too surprising, as a Costco ebike. They are working kind of ok. Just an eternity to charge, a lowest range possible. Manu? Typically recent.
>>1962041Hm. I don't recognize this one. So I guess you're out of luck. Especially with trigger throttle, as they all are kinda integrated in the display assembly.With thumb throttle, you can change twist throttle with it sure, as you can buy just the throttle, cut off the wire and solder it instead of the hall sensor / twist throttle connector inside the display thingy. >>1962148Idk that's odd too, because NiCad is much more expensive than Li-ion. >. Just an eternity to charge, a lowest range possible. Manu? Typically recent.Can you make a photo of charger and battery itself? Because I've hard time believing its a nicd kek.But if it is a NiCD, it can be swapped with Li-ion. That said, controller might be not that happy about voltage range, as Ni-CD has voltage range of 1.4 - 0.8 V per cell, where it sits pretty flat at 1.2V pretty much whole curve, but lithium ion goes from 4.2 to 2.5v and isn't that flat, so charge indicator would be useless, and maybe cut-off protections in controller won't let you use whole battery.
>>1962158>more expensive Wow thats crazy.>whole batteryhow do you mean? In single instance of accelerations? If get squeezed into range, that's better. I want the littlest pedal assist possible. I'm stuck where I need to commute, but cant get conditioning up to do 30 miles daily. Have all the time in ye world though, just no stamina.
>>196217342V would suggest it is probably 10S lithium pack. But then it can probably me 30S NiCD, which I doubt because as I said, NiCD is more expensive than li-ion. https://ridejetson.com/products/bolt-electric-bike-proand on their site they say its lithium.1.5A is slow however, as 6 AH battery they have would charge, idk, 5 hours maybe. >how do you mean? In single instance of accelerations? 36V li-ion has range of 42V to 28V. NiCD might be different slightly, maybe a bit higher cut off voltage (like 30V), which might not let you discharge battery entirely, if controller has said cut-offs. So it would discharge it to like 10% or so. >but cant get conditioning up to do 30 miles daily.48 km... You'd probably need like idk, judging by escooter 27 ah battery. Maybe with assist a bit less.
>>1962158>With thumb throttle, you can change twist throttle with it sure, as you can buy just the throttle, cut off the wire and solder it instead of the hall sensor / twist throttle connector inside the display thingy.I see. Guess I'll have to go to the store and get it changed there.It does have a speedometer and odometer. Kinda sucks that the odo keeps resetting for some reason. Also, how do you unplug a julet connector that's stuck? I don't want to use pliers since it might damage the connectors inside.
>>1962202>It does have a speedometer and odometer. Kinda sucks that the odo keeps resetting for some reason.Some displays just do it. Especially if you use key to turn off the scooter, and not the button (but idk i dont see buttons)>Also, how do you unplug a julet connector that's stuck? They are just tough to pull apart. You can try spraying a bit of wd-40 in there, but it all boils down to just brute force, and pull it straight, because if you jiggle it, you can break the pins. Maybe you can try prying it with a flat head driver, evenly from all sides.
>>1962187Is there any cadmium in li-ions? I forgot the maintenance of ni-cads? They had the worst "memory" right? Liked to be fully discharged? or never below half? And holy shit, every bit of 5 hours.
>>1962208>Is there any cadmium in li-ions?No. Li-ions have Nickel, Manganese, Cobalt in oxide form in some proportions, graphite, copper and aluminium. Lithium is suspended in electrolyte, which is dissolved in some sort of solvent. >I forgot the maintenance of ni-cads? They had the worst "memory" right? ? Liked to be fully discharged?Yes.> or never below half?That's for lead-acid. As for lithium, lithium (NMC/NCA, the 4.2V variety) hates being stored at full charge, also hates being discharged to zero. So best for lithium is non-full charge, and non-full discharge, but wait. Not all battery packs can be reliably charged to, let's say 90%, because balancing circuit only engages when it is charged to full 4.2V per cell. So it really depends on the type of BMS it uses.If BMS is really smart and balances cells with small currents all the time, or has an active balancer, yes, you can charge to 80-90% and prolong lifespan of battery. (like on laptops, ninebot/xiaomi e-scooters).If BMS is dumb (like in most e-bikes, e-scooters), it is better to charge battery fully once in a while so it balances the cells... If it has the balancer that is lol, because some really shitty battery packs (op-pic) use BMS that doesn't balance shit, and just prevents overcharge/overdischarge.
>>1962233Is there a best off the shelf battery replacement? Do you think it's worth it?
>>1962247>Is there a best off the shelf battery replacementidk> Do you think it's worth it?moar batteries = moar better.
>>1962260There is some girl with a yt channel who modded the hell out of it. I can't find it now, of course.https://youtu.be/52HLZ-l3W18?si=qhZ15NY0b9u51tYxhere is some dude slapping a whopper in there.
>>1962204Yeah no buttons which is stupid because I have to turn it on and off again to see the odometer and voltage.Seller is charging me $45 for a trigger throttle and compatible controller, plus $20 for the service fee.
>>1962447$45 seems reasonable for controller + throttle (given its FOC/Sinewave, bit too much for square wave), but as for labor idk because I don't get stuff repaired.
Elon Musk have published a lot of docs about his first e-scoote- car, and its kinda interesting. Balancing is resistive with just 39 ohms, which gives 92 mA or so, which is interesting. "Brick" backs are kinda similar to e-scooter/e-bike packs.Roadster BMS is kinda funny as it uses PIC micro instead of BQ chip for everything, and BQ chips are used just for OVP (like on zheng cheapy BMSes). Out of curiosity I checked Tesla S BMS, and there he uses BQ for everything, which is right choice, as it was meant to be a BMS chip.
>>1962876The fact that their are nerds putting half the drive train in old porches, says alot about market overshot, how deluded he is. 3 empty seats.
>>1963823>>1963824What the fuck do you even mean?I'm just saying one of the most sophisticated e-cars is basically a glorified e-scooter, and that soon I'd be able to get big moneys by being one of the the first to service e-cars, especially stuff official dealers won't touch with 10 ft pole, but in garage, replacing a shitty capacitor/replacing trace is acceptable cost and time-wise.
>>1963832Oh, so you are happy motoring scum. Well....get fucked.
>>1963870wtf is wrong with you? you're danger to society and should be kept in the institution
>>1963982I'm not the one destroying the planet.
>>1949696Found same (not quite but from same manufacturer which probably uses similar battery) e-scooter but after a battery fire on the facebook marketplace.... SO I WAS FUCKING RIGHT. Fuse is a must. High quality BMS is a must. This battery didn't have either... And chargers for these scooters? 43V no load, because they decided trimmer pot is unnecessary (in otherwise well-designed charger), for 10S battery, fucking too much. With proper 42V you can drive cell into overcharge fast with imbalance in the pack, but with 43V its even more likely. And stock BMS doesn't do balancing, and it is retarded, because it is asymmetric, i.e. charge and discharge take different paths (3MOS in parallel for discharge, 1 MOS in series with those 3 for charge). Combine that with shitty spot welds... So yeah, I think Ninebot/Xiaomi are the only scooters that are safe (in legal 25-ish km/h scooters)Anyway, I finally got helmet, how the fuck do you adjust it properly? Manual is unclear. Is it supposed to be "squishing brains before accident" tight or "loose as fuck"?
>>1965798I wish I had your knowledge because I am looking for a battery for my Bafang kit and I don't want my ass to combust
>>1963870Take your fucking risperidone, you are making no sense.
>>1965814It is not a rocket science. >1) Check if battery has fuse >2) Check if BMS has balancing(this is somewhat tricky as you have two options, use google translate and trust the label, or study the PCB, usually big resistors are the sign of balancing)>3) Check if BMS is high quality (high quality BMS uses one BMS IC, not bunch of single cell ICs)>4) Check the quality of battery assembly (check welds with dental hook. Check if it looks neat and tidy. Cell spacers, insulating gaskets on + terminal. Nickel thickness and layout)If you already have a battery, and it doesn't have a fuse, nor good BMS - you can easily add a fuse, and swap BMS with better one.With basic tools too (60W soldering iron $20, snippers, $2 from aliexpress, hair dryer, lighter)And it might be scary to take battery apart just to check what is inside, as it has shrink wrap and silicone, but truth is that new shrink wrap is $2 on aliexpress, which is much cheaper than new battery or house.
>>1949696Why does my viribus keep saying "E 08" making the throttle/assisg not work and why does it say I only have one bar when the bike is fully charged?>imb4 contact themI did, I got a bunch of replacement parts and spent a month motorless
>>1965862I don't know details of your bicycle (photo would be always nice, because there are about as many e-bikes and e-scooters are there are Chinese engineers in the world)... >Why does my viribus keep saying "E 08" making the throttle/assisg not work Check owners manual. I don't know your exact model, but in some models of viribus this errors means throttle error. This can be caused by faulty wiring, or by faulty throttle itself (for example, on ninebot es2 e-scooters throttle has 2 magnets inside of it, and in early variants those magnets weren't glued well enough and they would come lose, stick together, and after this hall sensor would provide rubbish, like throttle fully pressed on, and obviously motor controller isn't dumb, it is programmed not to spin the wheel if throttle is stuck at 100% for safety reasons)Check wiring. Maybe even check solder joints in controller. If you can't find the issue, replace the throttle. Or alternatively, disconnect it completely, and re-configure motor controller to be pedal-assist only, which is much better than manual cycling while waiting on a part from china to appear (pro-tip: it wont appear until February) >and why does it say I only have one bar when the bike is fully charged?Probably misconfigured voltage in the display. Again, check owners manual for default setting values.Idk, manual I've found, they don't state the minimal voltage setting, so>36V battery (or 10S, or 42V on charger) -> 28V (or there about)>48v battery (or 13S, or 54.6V on charger) -> 36.4v (or there about)>whatever battery ( n cells in Series or 4.2V*n on charger) -> 2.8V * n (or there about)If it is NMC/NCA battery, and not LiFePO4
>>1965881>This can be caused by faulty wiring, or by faulty throttle itselfOr just by throttle getting stuck at whatever value, like idk, grip is pushed too hard and it doesn't return to zero. Or it is binding a bit.