>>1948208Why are they redoing the tunnel? What was wrong with the existing one?
>>1948227Too straight and white. Curse this woke culture
expand capacity and provide a backup in case one of the tunnels goes down (original one is over 100 yr old p sure)
>>1948227The original tunnel is over 110 years old, capacity-constrained, and storm-damaged. > WTF is wrong with NYC>the maladministration of New York , which has become a byword in the United States , is not of a nature to attract its neighbours - The Earth and Its Inhabitants, 1893
>>1948208I got a better idea. Instead of doing this shit underground, take away one of the many fucking above ground streets, and put the train there. Goes from 17 billion to 17 million. It's ridiculous that cars basically have a monopoly on above ground transportation real estate. Can you imagine if every single road in America was forced to be built underground?
>>1948272Gradient too steep
>>1948272Based.
>>1948272The location isn't really suitable for a bridge, both for the river crossing and the approaches on either end. Additionally, the platforms the rail route enters into are underground. >Goes from 17 billion to 17 million.Except the US can't build anything. > For example, a 9.3-mile-long Metro Line in Toulouse, France, was built entirely underground at a cost of about $176 million per mile while Houston Metro’s 3.2-mile-long Green Line is all at-grade and cost $223 million per mile.>domestic rail-transit projects cost about 50% more on average on a per-mile basis than in Europe and Canada, a number that rises to roughly 250% when New York City’s disproportionately expensive projects are included.
>>1948293I read an article on why nyc's transit projects are so expensive. It's cause they build extremely huge, nonstandard, over the top stations whenever they go to build a new station. No two stations are the same, which is ridiculous because you need to spend time and money drafting and building both designs. And they're huge too, with tons of backrooms for maintenance crews, cleaning, and other workers. Which is ridiculous because there's no reason to excavate all that space when the city could just use space in a nearby above ground building. If nyc would build smaller standardized stations, it would cut down on costs significantly
>>1948293>>1948319Economies of scale apply too.Where transit is non-existent to infrequent, any new development is more expensive since you have to basically "cold start" the entire process, hiring the few people and small companies who do that sort of thing once every 5 years.Low volume product.
>>1948319Some NYT article comparing prices of New York to Paris mentioned how union cronyism is part of the problem. They revealed that the contracts to build include overstaffing, with one example being elevator operators...
>>1948319Every structure of that complexity is going to require its own design, it's not a game of Cities Skylines where you can just plop a station down and call it good. That's not the reason why tunneling/transit construction is so expensive in the US. It has to do with the enormous bureaucracy of the government at all levels and regulatory expenses like EIS's, in addition to that all of the large contracting firms being experts at bilking and leeching money from the public sector from years of experience and lobbying.>>1948486>elevator operators...That wouldn't be a construction cost, that would be an ongoing cost that the transit agency would have to pay for.
>>1948230Underrated post
>>1948293>at-grade and cost $223 million per mileclown world, at this point we shouldn't build anything. We do not negotiate with fiscal terrorists.
>>1948272Or do an elevated railway like in Chicago.>muh noiseModern ones are made with concrete and aren't noisy like the Chicago L.>muh aestheticsI would post that room full of old radiators if my region wasn't range banned. NYC looks like ass.
>>1948293That reminds me of how California brought in consultants from the French state rail company during the early days of Cali's HSR project, who left a couple years later in disgust with how difficult getting anything done in California was. They then went over to Morocco and had no trouble helping them build a HSR line.
>>1948490>That wouldn't be a construction cost, that would be an ongoing cost that the transit agency would have to pay for.No its not. The elevator operators are employed like like any other construction worker. When the work is finished, so is the job of the elevator operator at the site.
>>1948990>Modern ones are made with concrete and aren't noisy like the Chicago LJust chiming in to say the new concrete sections of the L are surprisingly quite! I wish they eventually upgrade all the elevated sections to concrete
>>1948261>capacity-constrainedBecause it's full of fucking cars!
>>1949017SNCF's route was bad and violated the proposition
>>1948490>It has to do with the enormous bureaucracy of the government at all levels and regulatory expenses like EIS's, in addition to that all of the large contracting firms being experts at bilking and leeching money from the public sector from years of experience and lobbying.It's not like the rest of the world has no bureaucracy, corruption, or graft. Why is the US so lacking in appetite for putting their own house in order, to the point where it's massively hurting their ability to bring any big project to fruition?
>>1949239US cities happen to combine import the third world, become the third world style corruption with entrenched western style bureaucracy in way you don't see elsewhere in the world (yet). Most other places you are only dealing with one sort of inefficiency or the other, not heavy doses of both at the same time.
>>1949154it was based and redpilled and connected SF to LA without any detours
>>1949141That's another tunnel (The Lincoln Tunnel). We're talking about the North River Tunnels and their replacement/complement, the Gateway Tunnel. Such are the fruits of a century of Man's progress that what took eight years from design to opening in the 1900s will take 15-20 in the 2000s.
>>1948230
>>1948208The CA/T tunnel system in Boston started in 1982 and finished in 2007 with a total cost of 21.5 Billion dollars adjusting for inflation.
>>1949141>average nu-/n/ poster
>>1948272>Goes from 17 billion to 17 millionDo you have any idea how fucked NYC public construction contracts are?150 million to re-tile and put new light fixtures in 4 stations.
>>1948319>If nyc would build smaller standardized stations, it would cut down on costs significantlyBut if they did that the 3 italian families that run the only construction companies allowed to bid on MTA contracts would make less money.
>>1949134>>1948490If you want to know how corrupt the unions are in NYC, look up the sandhogs union. They have a monopoly on the labor in NYC for underground construction and they require that all MTA capital projects pay their workers 110$+ per hour and quadruple overtime on weekends. Additionally, the sandhogs union spends countless dollars lobbying local politicians to support the constructions of new tunnel projects in the area.
>>1949658How do I get a job there? Or is it the same as railways, where you have to be born into it.
>>1949860You have to be born into a family with connections. They tend to not hire outsiders.
>>1949860be italian or irish
>>1948231>expand capacityIncrease congestion you mean
>>1948208Why make the new entry point at the same location instead of farther away to decrease congestion? They're already paying a stupid amount so another billion or so for making it slightly longer shouldnt matter.
>>1948208What's the point if it reconnects? Is it for trucks only?
>>1950264Induce demand.Just one more track, bro.
>>1948272>Goes from 17 billion to 17 millionYou couldn't build a railroad bridge over a puddle in bumfuck nowhere for 17 million. There are roundabouts that cost more than that to build
>>1948208>>1948208It's NYC. Everything costs more there.
Most of the expense comes from the fact that they have to dig under the Hudson river and the bedrock of New York is basically solid fucking granite.
>>1948208Tunnelcels can't stop losing.
>>1948208>new tunnel will have a stupid amount of curves limiting top speedbut why
>>1950796I presume the original tunnel is in such bad shape that they didn't want to tunnel too close to it, but that's just a guess. It's on the approach to the station so speeds aren't going to be high anyway
