Is public transport in America as horrible as claimed or is this just Musk being a moron again?
>>1915051I hate Elon so fucking much but he's right. Public transport here is pretty shit. Some light rail trains I've been on have been decent but if you take the bus you're going to be surrounded by schizo homeless people who are screaming at themselves/pissing their pants. I've heard nothing but horror stories about the Bart in SF. People jacking off while staring at you type shit.
>>1915053sure, it's shitty - put some fucking money into it already ffs.whatever, i can guarantee the libertarian tech dogshit that cocksucker musk is peddling as some kind of solution is far fucking worse for humanity in the long run.
>>1915065No amount of transit funding is going to get homeless crackheads off buses and metros. The real solution is to reopen the asylums and get rid of the fucking awful useless prosecutors that refuse to charge anyone for anything less than murder
>>1915065>put some fucking money into it already ffs.why? No one rides it because it takes 4 times as long to get anywhere and is full of homeless
Our transit systems have been chronically underfunded (and often deliberately crippled) for decades because it hurts the bottom line of oil companies.
Why the fuck would I want to take a bus (or sometimes two) that's gonna take me an hour to get somewhere when I could drive and be there in 15 minutes? Cars and gas are cheap here.
>>1915051I rode the bus in KC and NOLA for years no problemo. But visiting NYC i was disgusted that the subway smelled like wet garbage smell and had rats on the track. I pointed this out and my GF and the other riders laughed at me like I was a rube but Ive been to Prague, Paris, mexico city, buffalo, munich, roma and it never smelled like that. Even fucking riding mexico city in august was nicer.Maybe Im a rube but if youre going to be the headquarters of global capitalism and say unironically that NYC is the greatest city in the world SUBWAY CANT FUCKIN STINK.
>>1915051Public transportation can only work in a racially and politically homogeneous society. It also requires massive funding without providing the benefits of personal transportation.
>>1915082>citation neededAlso easy solution: increase ticket prices by tenfold to cover the cost.
>>1915082Explain how more funding would get public transport rid of black people and druggies.
>>1915176>racially and politically homogeneousNot being an asshole, homeless without shower access or sick in the head is usually enough.
>>1915178>more funds>more staff to keep undesirables in check
>>1915179You can't teach the swarthy to behave like humans and leftists behave like apes regardless.
>it's da blacks>not even Brasil has criminals on metro trainsThe problem is Americans are unable to run a successful society. Thats why anything government led is a failure. And why US has some of the worst racial inequality in the world
>>1915184>The problem is Democrats are unable to run a successful society.fixed
>>1915191One of the biggest problems in American society right here.Whenever an issue comes up it just becomes part of the partisan war for people to blame the other side on.The problem never gets fixed and becomes fuel for the yearly election fodder for voters
>>1915051Public transport doesn't work in America. It only works in Europe and Asia.
>>1915198Same like walkable neighborhoods or high quality of life inner cities, those are things only Europeans and Asians are good at, Americans are very bad at it.
>>1915099>had rats on the trackwhat are the rats going to do to you anon
>>1915180That requires the political will to do so, of which there is none.And the people who push for transit the hardest have absolutely no problem with it being full of scum. They have been successfully demoralized.
>>1915181You apparently can since most of these people are perfectly normal members of society I had no issue sitting next to on a bus or subway. Even my worst experiences don't come close to the horror stories I read here.
It's a vicious circle. The more something is avoided, the less attention it gets, the worse it becomes, the more it's avoided etc.Also mouthbreathing genetic trash poltards love to blame it on skin color, but racial disparity in the US is the result of the US being a discriminatory shithole to begin with.
>>1915227you will never be white, mulatto burger retard
>>1915180>LMAO just have air marshals but for every bus and train cabin if negroes act up
>>1915228>ooga booga>perfectly normal>people>>1915235>rent freeI'm European you seething faggot.
>>1915180you mean police. staff can't arrest or kick out orcs.the solution is to get rid of orcs. one way or another
>>1915227>Walkable is a code word for communismyeah walkable is code for dicks in the ass. trust me, i want 45 minutes to work a day. everything is ((walkable)) if your in shape
>>1915247>>1915249>>1915251>the mutt is seething againThe oil companies really convinced them that they can't have well funded public transport because of black people
>>1915252Your English is so bad that the meaning of your sentence falls apart ESL-kun.
>>1915253Even if I could take a train or bus I don’t see why I would. A car offers greater flexibility. I want to get groceries? Just drive my car to the store, load it with groceries and drive home, no need to worry about bus schedules or carrying groceries in my arms across town. I want to travel to a friend’s house in another town? I can leave at the last minute instead of leaving early for the schedule and waiting around doing nothing until the meetup.And if I already own a car why would I waste money either directly by paying for a ticket or indirectly by having higher local taxes? The anon who suggested increasing prices tenfold had the best idea, give me a reason to take a train, keep out the riffraff and get me a whiskey on the rocks.
>>1915257>whiskey on the rocksheavy larp energy, m'lady
>>1915051I think it's just terrible in America. I live in a city right now where the public transport is effective, clean, and probably faster than using a car for most places.
>>1915257I think you take your built environment for granted, always is, always was.
>>1915285>banned from it's own board, the /o/tard is left to troll /n/
>>1915287>even the auto board hates car fagslmao
>>1915051Yep, did you know Charleston (pop 250,000) only has 3 trains arriving A WEEKNo wonder Americans are so car obsessed
>>1915053>>1915065The problem is mass transit is public. Private agencies would solve the problems in a heartbeat, but instead we let incompetent politicians and inept planners run these systems into the ground.
>>1915308>Foreigner believes Amtrak is public transportationAre they even trying?
>>1915308Colombus OH doesn't even have a train
>>1915287I actually don't think the cagetrolls are /o/tists, because car enthusiasts seem pretty receptive to rail and transit stuff. And cagetrolls don't seem to know much about cars or traffic.
>>1915082>muh oil companiesCA has had overwhelmingly left wing governments at every level for decades, and even on the rare occasion someone who's nominally republican gets elected they're still left wing by the standards of 75% of the rest of the country.
>>1915196Public transportation isn't a federal issue. The places with the Enrichment Tubes are almost always extremely politically homogeneous.>>1915228>I've never been murdered therefore murder is a conspiracy theory
>>1915345Nothing in your post has anything to do with oil companies.And it's an undeniable fact that oil companies lobby against transit and even lobby against non-suburban zoning.They're very politically active.
>>1915357I guess you need to be reminded once again that one of them died several years ago
>>1915082AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAlook at the fucking subsidies public transport gets its fucking insanethose ferries in the Bay Area charge like 20 bucks a ticket but another 300 dollars in taxes is tacked on in subsidies per ticket to actually make the shit work anything public sector is a fucked retarded mess slush fund
>>1915368>look at the fucking subsidies public transport getsWe spend over $400 billion a year on roads and highways. The vast majority of highways don't even charge a toll (but they should, to cover the massive costs they incur
>>1915369Yes, the things that provide the greatest benefits get the most money
Elon Musk doesn't know much about transportation or infrastructure, as evidenced by his support of Boring Tunnels. Boring Tunnels will never do anything to alleviate traffic congestion.
>>1915371If they provided such a big benefit they'd be able to pay for themselves. But sadly they're just a massive moneysink to the taxpayer.Highways need to be tolled so they can stop bleeding taxpayers dry.
>>1915373Neither will public transportation.De-densification will. That's why work from home is a better solution to traffic congestion than a train or bus. It's far cheaper and make people more productive, too.
>>1915375>But sadly they're just a massive moneysink to the taxpayer.Nah, I get a lot of utility out of them. So do millions of other travelers, commuters, and shippers.
Elon can't change the fact that Americans are willing to pay a premium to live near transit. People vote with their wallet and walkability and transit access command high value.
>>1915379That's the nice thing about the US, you can choose to live near transit if you like, or you can move to suburban and exurban locales like most people.
>>1915357>california democrats are bought off by oil lobbyistslol
>>1915376>It's far cheaper and make people more productive, too.Fuck off Klaus
>>1915379https://twitter.com/KateZacharia/status/1661473388056174595 >I paid a premium to live here
>>1915051He's just a rich man who is afraid of the poors. The same reason they all have private jets.Public transit IS horrible in America, but that's reason to invest in it and improve it. Not reason to abandon it.
>>1915191The thing stopping Democrats from running an effective government is generally Republicans.100% of the time they vote against anything Dems want. Just to sabotage their administration so they can blame them for not doing anything.
>>1915373I once lived a few blocks away where it was announced Boring Tunnels would add a pedestrian underpass underneath a railroad adjacent to a bridge, connecting apartments to a shopping district. I forgot if it was Boring or the city that killed it.
>>1915373Didn't he just build that to waste public funds on those instead of workable public infrastructure?
>>1915402>The thing stopping Democrats from running an effective government is generally Republicans.My fucking sides.
>>1915403>>1915406incredulity is not an argument
>>1915402>The thing stopping Democrats from running an effective government is generally Republicans.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Legislature>Senate: 32D, 8R>Assembly: 62D, 18RRoughly how big of a majority do you think the dems would need to overcome Republican sabotage?
I don't know why anyone would think Elon Musk knows anything about transit.
>it's another episode of Americans think a problem that only exists in their country must be impossible to solveIt's like watch Africans cry that clean tap water is a myth
>>1915357>citation neededCope more seething poor
>>1915369Fine, let's abolish all funding, see what happens to public transportation then lol.
>>1915375Public transportation needs to reflect actual cost. Ticket prices need to be raised 100-fold. Cyclists need to start paying their fair share too, bike tax needs to be introduced.
>>1915402>democrats>effective governmentKek we see how effective commiefornia is lol
>>1915348No, it's more like I this: I used to get angry when someone left wrappers on the seat or talked on the phone loudly but after being exposed to stoies and pictures of horrors like >>1915439 I just appreciate my fellow riders minor shortcomings. I know I'm not 100% safe from getting murdered eventually somewhere but city life until then suddenly seems really good in comparison.
>>1915082>muh oil companiesits to limit the movement of blacks
>>1915051Both are true. Public transportation is horrible. And not everyone can afford a Testa.
>>1915053I feel like it's the opposite in my city. Bus drivers actually enforce fare and don't let you board if you can't pay. My bus rides have all been peaceful and quiet, never had an issue.The subways are a moving insane asylum since anyways can just the gates and there is zero enforcement.
Musk's idea of innovating transit by using the least efficient mode (a low occupancy car) is something a teenager would come up with. He needs to recieve some basic knowledge from a traffic engineer to understand how dumb of a plan this and how trying to replace say, the NYC subway, with its once 4 million riders per day, with an equivalent number of Teslas in tunnels, means you would need to literally carve out the entire city to put tunnel highways. He's of course also incentivized to try to turn the public from transit into his brand of cars. I rather he just shut up because he's actually causing damage by scamming local governments to give him money for these snake oil vanity projects instead of them investing in even basic stuff like bus or a LRT.
>>1915515As best I can tell, the one in Vegas cost $48 million. Feasibility studies, legal challenges, lobbying, and all the other waste that comes with public projects would devour that amount of money before you could excavate the first bucket of dirt.
>>1915496>t.A privately owned automobile solved these issues.
Public transport is inherently shit it's there for people who literally can't afford their own car, it's basically public school cafeteria garbage food. It sure would be nice if it was healthier but it would be better if everyone had access to real food at home instead.
>>1915375Enjoy paying 10 times what you normally would at the grocery store, dumbass. Fucking urbanists are always like "defund the roads/highways, they don't benefit me teehee" as if their fat asses wouldn't starve to death in a week were it not for the interstate system delivering tendies into their waiting fucking maws.Enjoy advocating paying more taxes to pedophiles.
>>1915375Agreed but why stop there. Just defund everything and let's get rid of taxes.Let everything sink or swim, if it's not good enough to get funded by people willingly engaging in its consumption then maybe it's not something that should exist at all.
Pro public transport arguments>Logical, pragmatic, well thought throughPro car arguments>Emotional, angry, ridiculousWhat causes this phenomenon?
>>1915564If you don't get emotional and angry at the thought of being forced onto this, it is highly probable the problem lies with you. And this ain't reddit. Get the fuck outta here with that "heckin' logical and pragmatic" shit.
>>1915564You forgot to post a basedjak and chad meme to really prove your point.
>>1915568Yes I know America is a failed state. But what does this have to do with public transport?
>>1915564Pro public transportation arguments>waaahhh i want stuff for FREE cage cage cage REEEEEPro car arguments>offers the best modality for individual transportation of people and goods, free from strict time tables, stations and subhumans you have to share space withWhat causes this phenomenon?
>>1915570>muh americaHere's glorious Europe for comparison.
>>1915564The pro cagers are largely American and thus their political opinions consist solely of culture war propaganda.
>>1915568Murrica, filled with garbage>>1915575Europe, filled with people
>>1915051>"Fuck poorfags lol.">Elon MuskIn my city, the scheduled speed of the city bus is 15 mph. At best. That's the ideal condition imagined by a hand flapping autistic traffic engineer who has actually never ridden a city bus nor driven a car. Because they are physically unable to.Turning left or right is a half hour wait for the next bus.I can drive halfway across the city in the time it takes to walk to the bus stop.>If I could afford gas
>>1915633I'm not forced into some faggots messy car. Public transportation is messy and smelly by default. Cope more.
>>1915568You don't ride the subway, and being upset by seeing dirty homeless people is literally an emotional argument. Your life is far more at risk on the road where credit is cheap and any fucking idiot mutt can operate a 6000 pound motor vehicle. The roads are essentially full of people far more dangerous then the insane guy with bags on his feet, but since you're a woman, and you can only conceptualize what's immediately frightening to you, you feel safer driving
>>1915640I have thousands of hours of riding trains in Boston and there hasn't been anything that bad. Largely a clean, safe experience, which is surprising because there is a homeless problem in certain areas.
>>1915648I've never been shoved in front of a moving train nor had feces thrown on me in my car
>>1915652And yet per passenger mile, driving is enormously more dangerous than riding the train or bus, but that's because you're reacting emotionally to crazy headlines like a woman. People getting turned into mincemeat or being crippled or disfigured in car crashes is so commonplace that it's not "news".
>>1915655>ou're reacting emotionally to crazy headlines like a womanNope. I value my own time and convenience, which public transit wastes. If that means there's a slight tradeoff with safety, I'll take it.
>>1915652>I'm scared of being near brown criminals and insane poor people>It's better to have them operating motor vehicles at high speeds around me. I would legitimately rather take a train from Brownsville New York to Manhattan at 3 am than drive in Miami Dade county for a day
>>1915659>First it was about muh dirty and muh scary and now it's about convenience. You're deflecting. And you obviously live in a shithole without quality public transit. Say hi to your illegal alien neighbors and their pitbull for me
>>1915668You have no rebuttal for the fact that per passenger mile, driving in a car is far and away more dangerous than riding a train.
>>1915670Already addressed that here: >>1915659
>>1915677Oh wow the 500th time you've posted this exact same story. It's almost like when you have billions of rides in a giant metropolis where millions of people live crazy things happen. It's actually miraculous how safe the NYC metro system is given it's use.
>>1915690Maybe safety isn't the only thing people base their decisions on. Glad I don't live in NYC though
>>1915690Lol cope and careful you don't slip on hobo piss
>>1915696Where do you live? This a good opportunity to brag and talk about the merits of your lifestyle.
>>1915703I told you: I don't live in NYC
>>1915704Where do you live?
>>1915707Tell me where you live first
>>1915051>being a moron againuh he's trying to sell more of his cars, you're the moron here
>>1915051Public transit only functions in societies with high social trust and low levels of violence. America has low social trust and high levels of violence. Raising the mean IQ is the only solution to both of these problems.
>>1915743Public transit manages to function in Latin American shitholes. The problem is and has always been that Americans cannot run a suceesful state.The most expensive education system in the world (but some of the worst education outcomes)Homelessness and open air drug use despite the billions thrown at stopping themAnd to top it all they can't even get buses to work. Even the Communists could manage buses
>>1915690>thinks that's the only onenope, just the best oneHere's a good feed for NYC, though it's about 50% Jordan Neely stuff these days.https://nypost.com/tag/subways/For SF there used to be this site but it hasn't updated since late 2021, apparently (according to the About page) because the government started censoring crime reports because they were turning people racist. At least you can see how it was before that though.https://www.bartcrimes.com/
>>1915747>Even the Communists could manage busesOuch.
>>1915750Yeah once again, when you have a daily ridership this size of a large city, in a place that basically opened the floodgates on mentally ill people being in the street there will be bad things that happen, but still much less than say an average day of driving in Miami Dade county. I lived for 7 years in New York and never had a problem on the subway.
>>1915757It's honestly astounding more people aren't killed with 3.7 million daily riders. Even better when you realize most of the crime is contained within certain areas and demographics. It's like being apocalyptic about Chicago being dangerous when it's really just extremely dangerous in very limited areas
>>1915761Hello my schizo friend
>>1915402this, heckin republican chuds are stopping us from living in a progressive paradise
>>1915773Both parties are in collusion. Being a dem or an repub is cringe
>>1915648And yet I would still rather deal with all of that than deal with joggers. I will continue to base my political decisions off of what minimizes my contact with shitskins and you can't stop me. I would literally rather spend 4 hours mangled in a wreck alone begging for mercy than spend 5 minutes with a nigger on a bus. Fuck your (((logical argument)))
>>1915633If you looked in my car right now, you'd find drink cups, empty cigarette packs and random tools. And even then, it's my personal property that no one else has to see. On transit, I have been witness to every bodily fluid, hypodermic needles, people that throw an apoplectic fit if you ask them to move 3 inches.Really I feel like that picture is a far more pro-car argument than you think. It's almost like the average person doesn't have the ability to handle being crammed in a cattle car with 50 other people for long periods of time without it going bad.
>>1915430Yeah in other countries public transportation doesn't involve traveling with strangers who could be serial killers (?)
>>1915834What's with you amerimutts and the obsession with serial killers?
>>1915840In other countries public transportation doesn't include getting in cars that are unsanitary because they have been regularly touched by other people?In other countries, public transportation can take you exactly where you want to go and you never have to ever hire a taxi or uber to finish the last stretch?In other countries, public transportation allows you to carry whatever you can fit in it to your specific destination and doesn't have to be only what you can carry yourself?In other countries, you can use public transportation to browse around without having a set destination in mind?In other countries, public transportation doesn't involve traveling with strangers who could be playing loud music, engaging in public displays of affection, urinating, defecating, smoking, doing drugs, or smell?
>>1915841Retarded argument. If you're going, let's say, shopping at yard sales, you're going to take your car and you can cruise slowly and pick up whatever nice thing you find. It's a good use of the car, because you might find a nice set of chairs or something you can fit in the back. But let's say you're going downtown to meet some old friends for drinks or just to catch up, it doesnt make sense to drive in and have to worry about parking and worrying about making sure you keep sober enough to drive. You don't have this object you have to take care of. You just have a pleasant walk to your train stop and catch a train back with your mate where you can chat. Cars are very good tools for filling in the gaps of transit and walking, but they're a fucking pain in the ass in any real city worth it's salt.
>>1915841And one more thing "in other countries you don't have to have a set destination you can just browse around" is literally just the experience of being in a city. That's kind of the whole point of being in a city. There is so much stuff to do in close proximity that you can just sort of walk around and see where the day takes you. Obviously this doesn't hold up in the countryside, but that's a good application of the automobile. Driving around Boston to try to "browse" is a fucking nightmare. You're obviously from some flyover and you would have a meltdown driving here.
>>1915051Do you seriously think Musk or any other boomer cagie addict on 4chan has any idea what public transport in America is actually like?They just constantly repost the same pictures of some crackhead taking a shit on a subway as proof that all public transport is broken and flawed so they can justify their sheltered wagecage lifestyle
>>1915051He’s absolutely right. Any other opinion is straight cope. I love my big cushy hearted/cooled leather seats, listening to my music on my 17 speaker sound system, sipping on my cold brew without worrying about being stabbed. I don’t even have to go outside to get to my car much less walk to a bus stop. I’ll take the extra cost.
>>1915743>>1915747I think the distinction here is that Latin America is "high trust" because it's ethnically homogeneous. There's just one ethnicity in Latin America: Latinos. In America that's not the case.You CAN have low IQs and public transit, and Latin America is an example, but pretty much everybody has to have equally low IQs dispersed evenly across the population, not concentrated in certain ethnic groups. America will never be homogeneous as a nation, and this is pretty much the reason why public transit can't work here, and in fact we're getting MORE homogeneous and not LESS actually.
>>1915904*LESS and not MORE
>>1915319Nah, IF (and that's a big if) private agencies were allowed to build transit infrastructure, they'd very quickly abandon it early on after realizing it's not profitable. The problem is that most places can't support the density/volume to make high frequency transit possible, and all the places which can already have public transit would have to undergo a privatization process, which would be a nightmare and there wouldn't be any legal barrier to companies just shutting all of it down. Ford would be legally able to buy them out and shut down all the lines, for instance. Anti trust laws can't do shit about that. That literally exactly why transit agencies are public, since it happened before with auto companies buying out all the streetcars and just tearing them out.
>>1915904To me it seems like murica is extremely "high hate" that prevents them from ever trusting anyone that doesn't wear the same extreme opinion team button. Be it ethnical, political or religious or all at once.
>we can't have good public transport because of black peopleSo I guess all those white majority towns must have excellent bus services
>>1915904There isn't just one ethnicity in Latin America retard, and there is a massive racial caste structure in many countries
>>1915191Why are red states worse to live in then
>>1915051I live in a third world shithole and our public transportation, while shit for many reasons, isn't a filthy favela on wheels. What happened? Why is american transit supposedly full of crackheads and hobos? Worst I'll get here is loud religious types running charities in the train once a month and they usually leave within a station or two.
>>1916090Because the ruling elite of this country hate normal people and have done everything in their power to destabilize the public space and drive everyone insane. Part of austerity politics is also just demoralization
>>1916091>American gov is so incompetent they're inventing conspiracy theories to try and explain how shit they arekek
>>1915051It's dreadful EVERYWHERE except perhaps in Japan. You see the main problem with public transport is it's public, which means other members of your society are free to use it. If 99% of your society are your people, who share your culture and values, who are connected to you through a shared history and thereby are part of a homogeneous high trust society, then it's fine. Sure there will be issues, but they will be far rarer and less unpleasant.Here's an example of how two societies differ, one is infested with third worlders who are about 150,000 years behind those who built the society they currently parasite off, the other is filled with people who all belong to the same group.They are airports,but transportation is transportation, and let's be real, buses and trains are going to be even more obviously differenthttps://ifunny.co/video/notice-the-abundance-of-melanin-in-the-chicago-video-warsaw-Qm8CarrWA?s=cl
>>1916092>Defund all of the mental health institutions, create a toxic banking system that explodes home prices and deliberately introduces opiates onto the American public.The American gov has always been about creating a splintered, low trust population, it's always been about serving the interests of an elite corporate class
>>1916091>Because the ruling elite of this country hate normal people and have done everything in their power to destabilize the public space and drive everyone insane.But... that also describes my country. In fact the government moved the entire capital to buttfuck nowhere in the 50s and made it cagerland "because americans do it too" and killed off literally all intercity trains in the 80s. The local office also underfunds the only metro line we have (They've been promising 3 others for the past 30 years) and yada yada yada but our trains still don't smell like piss. I don't get it. Then again not every third world shithole is built the same, Argentina's Subte very much is just a sewer pipe with rails.
>>1916095Idk trains in Boston are generally pretty nice and clean. They just run like shit
>>1916098I only know Boston trains because my dad used to live there in the mid 80s. Always spoke highly of the trains there, specially the Green trams he took to work. I assume people complaining about dirty trains are Jew Yorkers, Chicagoans and Commiefornians. It's still ludicrous to think any of this shit happens in the US in [Current year].
No corporation can make high margin profits off of mass transport. Nothing is done in the US if there is no cash to change hands anymoreRoads bridges dams all in decay. Biggest banana republic ever
>>1916093This only happens because the people who built civilization are dead and their successors are fucking pathetic slobs living off what others before them made. First worlders have as much blame as the third worlders they invite and fail to educate because muh foreign cultures or something. Anyways why are we talking about this on /n/?
>>1916108>Biggest banana republic everThe seething foreigner is eternal
>>1916108>No corporation can make high margin profits off of mass transportPure lies and demoralization. They can and have, literally all rail used to be corporate before the government made it profitable to cater exclusively to cars by prioritizing them with massive subsidies and whatnot. Fucking Ford and GM got BILLIONS in bailout money, who in their right mind wouldn't invest in cagers when you literally aren't allowed to fail?
>>1916113The fact that various railroads already own tracks that could be used for commuter rail, but they don't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole, should tell you it doesn't make money.
>>1916114Correct, it makes no money because it isn't allowed to by external influence and you shouldn't be okay with that.
>>1916108>>1916113>>1916114>>1916115>meg munnyRetarded way to think about a public service, only befitting of amerimutts.By the same argument, roads are the biggest waste of money. They literally do not make any money.
>>1916117>roads are the biggest waste of moneyBingo.>They literally do not make any money.Ever heard of toll booths?
>>1916115>Correct, it makes no money because it isn't allowed to by external influence and you shouldn't be okay with that.Why? Because you want to ride the choo-choo at everyone else's inconvenience?>>1916117>They literally do not make any money.Neither does public transportation. So much for that!
>>1916123>>1916125>Bingo.>Neither does public transportationAre you two retards actually this dense?
>>1916125Because cars are not more convenient than trains you fume chugging troglodyte. They're a massive monetary sinkhole and a hazard.
>>1916126Which public transit systems in the US don't require subsidies and make a profit?>>1916127First you were talking about highways, now you've switched it up to cars. Pick one
>>1916128>First you were talking about highways, now you've switched it up to carsWhat the fuck else am I going to do with a road, swim in it?
>>1916128Almost every public service and infrastructure requires some kind of state funding, because they can not feasibly return their own investment when looking at them in economical isolation.You can call freeways a good investment because it creates jobs, opportunity, trade route, logistics route etc.Yet at no point did the road itself make ANY money. That's because the government acts as an intermediary and broadens the economic scope of infrastructure. Invest here, reap there.So, truly, genuinely, in good faith so help me God, why do you insist on treating rail differently?
>>1916131What rail lacks in overall flexibility it makes up in uber efficient land use compared to roads and highways. Dense, highly productive cities would simple stop functioning if you took transit riders and put them all in cars
>>1916129Cars and highways aren't the same thing.>>1916131>So, truly, genuinely, in good faith so help me God, why do you insist on treating rail differently?Because I know I can expect a slower overall trip and less convenience with a bus or train, and I have to be jammed asshole to elbow with human refuse because the biggest proponents of mass transit won't acknowledge that problem. It also brings that same human refuse out into surrounding communities where they're unwanted, and your side pretends that's not a problem either. If you fix that first, maybe you will get more people onto your side.The real question is why do you treat roads and transit differently? You claim roads make no money and that's bad, but rail makes no money either and it's good.>>1916133>Dense, highly productive cities would simple stop functioning if you took transit riders and put them all in carsWFH demonstrated that to be false. Even without it, everyone would adjust and jobs would move out of the central core and distribute themselves more evenly throughout the metro region.
>>1916139I asked a question about economics. I asked why do you talk about PT making money when it is clearly, like roads, a public service which pays for itself in different economic areas.You answered with "I don't personally like it and it's bad here therefore it's bad">It also brings that same human refuse out into surrounding communities where they're unwantedI really don't get where this comes from. Most "human refuse" still drives cars and they can get wherever they want just fine. I think you have a perception problem, your public transit is so barebones and derelict that only the most desperate of the desperate ("human refuse") actually use it. Which obviously means expanding it and making it more useful produces more human refuse?>You claim roads make no money and that's bad, but rail makes no money either and it's good.I didn't say that, I said:>By the same argument, roads are the biggest waste of moneyTo illustrate the earlier point you didn't address.
>>1916139Wfh is a huge bubble and is pretty much busy work for goyim to keep the ponzi going. It's not going to last
>>1916140>You answered with "I don't personally like it and it's bad here therefore it's bad"Yeah, I value my time. What about it?>I really don't get where this comes from. I do because I've lived around transit stations and used transit.> I think you have a perception problemThis is exactly what I mean. There's a real problem with antisocial people on public transport, and you hand-wave it away.>I said:>By the same argument, roads are the biggest waste of moneyWhere in >>1916131 did you say that?
>>1916144>Where did you say that?That was in my previous post. Anyway, never have I claimed that roads making no money is bad or that rail making none is good.Now please, why does rail need to make money? Is it or is it not a public service using public infrastructure, like roads?
>>1916145>Now please, why does rail need to make money?I don't recall saying that it did
why are trannys so obsessed with public transportation? try harder in life and buy a car like normal people
>>1916147Then why are you talking about money?Whichever ones here is (you)>>1916108>>1916113>>1916114>>1916115>>1916125
>>1916150>Then why are you talking about money?Because whoever I was replying to was
>>1915184Thats because we murder people for the most banal things, do you want to appear in a liveleak video? No? So dont fuck around, america actively protect burglars and druggies, if someone dares to stand against them there is a real chance that he will face jail, not that brazil is that different, thanks to american cultural influence, brazilian state actively try to protect the scum too, but there is no real law here, most of the times its just on the paper.
>>1916149Why are you so obsessed with trannies? Maybe you should call the hotline before you 41% yourself.
>>1916159t. rannyget a job instead of cutting your dick off
>>1915904Latin America isn't ethnically homogeneous, Americans just think that because they consider anyone who speaks Spanish to be one ethnicity. It's generally a lower-trust society than the US, with lower functioning institutions and higher violent crime. If Latin America does anything better than the US, then that is an embarrassing failure of the US.
>>1916139>WFH demonstrated that to be false. Even without it, everyone would adjust and jobs would move out of the central core and distribute themselves more evenly throughout the metro region.No it didn't. Look at NYC, I agree with the other anon that the city would not function without its transit. If white collar people in Brooklyn Heights and SoHo (two of the most expensive areas in the city) are staying home, do you think the min wage Starbucks employees at their local store all live nearby and walk to work? No. You'll always need to have your labor move around. Also, with the move to mostly hybrid, you still need to move millions of WFH workers for multiple days of the week, an impossible task without transit here. The MTA is back to nearly 4 million riders per DAY, you would have the worst gridlock in history if you converted all of those to vehicles. Plus, maybe some other cities have little or no attractions, but many major metro regions like NYC have lots of non-work trips that again you still need transit to accomplish, i.e.: tourists, museums, sporting events, concerts, parades, restaurant/bar, culture institutions, etc. Yankee Stadium alone has a capacity for 45k people for a single game, there's no real estate to build mega garages to support that without the subway. Same for MSG smack in the middle of the city, 20,000 people, where would you store nearly let's say between 15k to 20k cars?
>>1916149>just, like, drive car or walkCommie white ass
>>1916176Forgot to add:>pic related, it's you
>>1916171 No you see the solution is to raze 30-50% of nyc's land for parking
>>1916149Driving for your daily needs is peasant behavior. I don't want to drive with all of the slobs and African Uber drivers and suicidal wage earners. I prefer to drive on my own terms and for pleasure only.
>>1916171Not reading all that
>>1916184Nyc Metro, an economy larger than the state of Florida would grind to a halt without trains and buses because cars are a poor use of space in dense high value land.
>>1916189And yet the dumbest niggers alive still insist on wasting hours of their day driving into it
>>1916189It would be an inconvenience for many but it would work itself out
>>1916131Didn't know dutch are communist. Cyclists should really start paying bike tax and have registration and insurance enforced.
>>1916149They can't afford a car and have to seethe on the bus. Yes, it really is that simple.>>1916176Public transportation and cyclists are communist as they do not pay their fair share.
>>1916016>>1916164But it IS. Remember there's a difference between race and ethnicity. There is a difference between race and ethnicity. Whether someone is Castizo or Indio genetically, they're both Latino in Latam. The ONLY exception is some Indigenous groups who live in the middle of nowhere, and they don't even really do much. That's the point I'm trying to make: differences in income/cognitive ability dont matter when there's ethnic homogeneity, regardless of the existence of a racial "caste" system. Sure, Spaniard ancestry might be correlated with income, but even the most pure Mexican is still about 30% indigenous, and low class Mexicans can be 50-70% Indigenous.You are the retards who can't even distinguish race and ethnicity. America on the other hand divided races into ethnicities extremely early, whites, blacks, Mexicans, Asians, etc. All can be considered races with individual ethnicities, but you can still be from different races with the same ethnicity of course.
>>1916221I should amend>but you can still be from different races with the same ethnicity of course.Not to America, actually. Most everywhere else, so Europe, Latam, Africa, but not China and Australia, will separate race and ethnicity. Just something we do, like how I'll never recognize Asians as true American, no matter how well they speak English.
It never ceases to amaze me how much of a gulf there's in this regard between the US and most other somewhat advanced countries, especially europe and east asia. Especially considering how the US used to have great public transit and just tore most of it out because hurr not profitable.Public transit is reasonably comfy here in Switzerland, it's fast and frequent and gets you everywhere. When you get near the cities there's bound to be some annoying subhumans, though they're usually harmless. Is it perfect? No, but if you're a poorfag it's still better than having to waste your money on a shitbox. Also, as the country is much more densely populated than the US, we'd need to build lots of huge highways into what nature we still have.I don't think mutts and euros will ever see eye to eye on this, don't get why either one gets so triggered over others doing it differently. To each his own I'd say. This issue seems to me more of a symptom of american society decaying, mentally ill homeless drug addicts, violent criminals and whatnot. If our society were like that, I wouldn't ride transit either.picrel the typical train I take to work
>>1916208I should be paid to cycle to work instead of driving my car. You're only thinking about tax revenue, and even in that respect car drivers don't "pay their fair share" either.
>>1916193Yes people would walk and cycle I guess. I don't know if youve ever driven in NYC but gridlock can be absolutely brutal.
>>1916207>he posts here before workGermanic brain everyone.This is the country who'se economists thought it was a good idea to shut down their nuke plants and rely on russian gas.
>>1916223You're probably some greasy wop whos family came here in the 1890s. You're not American
>>1916267You should be taxed for cycling on car infrastructure since car owners pay unlike cyclist leeches.>>1916269OBSESSED and MINDBROKEN. I own you.Russian gas is cheap and reliable, fuck Ukraine, fuck America, fuck jews.
>>1916303I pay property taxes and own a car. I should be paid to ride my bike instead of my car.
>>1916305No, you shouldn't. You only slow down traffic.
>>1916309Cope faggot. Maybe you should leave your house a little earlier to beat traffic. I love passing you fucking losers at every red light
>>1916311Enjoy sweating like a pig in summer while I enjoy cool AC and enjoy slipping on wet leafs and ice while I enjoy heated seats.
>>1916314>passing off cowardice and indulging in emasculating comforts as virtues
>>1916314If it's brutally hot I'll just drive. I'm not stuck to one mode of transport like a poor person
>>1916316You can tell he's a soft little treats boy. Overweight bmi, needs his creature comforts or he gets pissy, done very little physical work in his life
>>1916316>comfort and luxury are emasculatingSour grapes of a spandex faggot. >>1916318Rent free
>>1916319You're the one coping so bad I can bike or drive if I want to I have that luxury. I enjoy biking because it's faster and more flexible for me. And it's nice to get exercise to start the day. Meanwhile you're likely locked into car commute that makes you seethe
>>1916319Post forearm, fat fuck.
>>1916320Nah, you're just a projecting faggot with no choice. >>1916322>rent freeRent free
>>1916320I feel like a winner. You?
>>1916324I do have a choice you're just so brain broken you don't believe people live in places where they have the luxury to use multiple modes of transportation.
>>1916326He literally lives in some exposed brick house in a bedroom satellite town. You think he has a choice? Let's just abandon thread and leave him to rot.
>>1916325Yeah I feel great and I love knowing that people like you are driven frothing mad because I can take a nice 20 minute bike ride to the office. Anyways I'm going to drive to Cape cod next weekend and enjoy the beautiful beaches :^)
>>1916328Nigger, that was my cue to stop responding the german mutt
>>1916326Nah, I'm just making fun of the relentlessly seething on /n/.>>1916327Rent free seething poor
>>1915379>Elon can't change the fact that Americans are willing to pay a premium to live near transit.Ahahaha. my grandparents live in Lafayette, CA, which is as expensive as you can get in the bay area, and all the houses near the Bart station are LOSING value and the residents all wish it would bypass their stop.
>>1916358Huh on Zillow all of the most expensive listings are clustered around the bart stop.
>>1916358Wow look at this dystopian shithole a 5 minute walk away from the BART
>>19163645 minute walk from a vineyard with a beautiful open field!! This is truly a disgusting urban hell
>>1916366Is that a quiet treelined boulevard? I think I'm gonna be sick...
>>1916364>>1916366Doesn't invalidate what the anon said. Cope more faggot retard.
>>1916369Sure it does. All of the most expensive property is close to the train station. Sure housing prices might be dropping but he's done nothing to prove that has to do with a train. He's basically rumor milling with his grandparents.
>>1915051In every city above 2mil population, it's pretty dangerous. Small towns are a craps shoot, but the smallest communities are generally pretty safe. The whiter a community, the better.
>>1915051>"SERIAL KILLERS could be here", he thought
>>1916371Transit is categorically safer than pretty much all driving, the exceptions maybe in the poorest parts of the city, but in that case driving there isn't much safer either. People just act emotionally and don't look at statistics.
>>1916366>This is truly a disgusting urban hellWhat is this retard even sperging about?Pro suburbia? if so you're correct, not living near a city is ideal, but you should cool your autisim Also lol at the zillow listing post, it's one of the most expensive cities in the bay area, houses are not going to zero.Houses away from BART are going up relative to ones closest to it. That's from the agent who actually works there. I'm sure you could even google up the resident complains re: BART from local facebook groups
>>1916379Except pretty much all of those listing have taken a comparable 12-15% drop whether they're close to the BART or not. Doesn't seem to be a strong correlation to proximity and drop in value.
>>1916387>>1916379But yes I guess I should take the word of CNN poisoned lead paint victims screeching on Facebook as data
>>1916373I go from my own experience using transitQuoting statistics is just you yelling in the echo chamber, it's not a sincere attempt to engage with anyone outside your sphere
>>1916394Engage with the statistics then. Or do you just go by emotional feel.
>>1916397I base my opinions on my own experience using transit
>>1916400So you're a twink who lives in Atlanta?
>>1916370Nope, it doesn't. It can still be the most valuable property but lose a lot of value incredibly fast. It's not that hard to comprehend if you had some highschool at least.
>>1916425>>1916358>>1916369>>1916379a few simple google searches could lead you to a couple papers suggesting that new transit development does in fact raise surrounding property value, or at least suggests it being the overall trend.Fuck your anecdotes and fuck SF.
>>1916425If you would look at home listings in the area you would find no correlation to drops in value and distance to the train. But you're lazy and have settled on your own narrative to satisfy yourself
>>1915199they could be better, it's not impossible but rather it's a choice that the country made 70 years ago and continues to champion in spite of cracks at the seams. Mid-century America chose to make everything car focused and to have suburbs to live in and cities to drive to for work and to drive out of for the night, which was a swell idea when the population was half of what it is now and when nobody knew what pollution or heavy traffic or suburban sprawl was like. There's no reason you couldn't make changes, but for the hardship of convincing suspicious people to not be obstinate about this or that. It's not even a political problem either, because all parts of the spectrum have people that fight against change of all kinds. It's a problem that people aren't willing to talk it out and to understand things, or that one person with a lot of money can stonewall even basic projects for years. It's that any political interest can rev up a voter and party machine to crush anything with effective spin. And a lot of that comes down to people not really caring about or listening to each other. But none of this is permanent t, and none of it is impossible to change, it's just very difficult. I think at the very least you have to wait until boomers die off because they think private cars are as essential as oxygen. From there it's getting people to recognize that you can make towns and cities more pleasant to live in if you build them less sprawling and less vehicle-dependent, and make more public-connected. That takes a lot of things however, including changing people's mindsets about how they live and work in the US, and demonstrating that you don't have to be NYC to have people walk on a street. You also need to show that changing zoning laws to allow residences and businesses to intermix again is not going to ruin your town, and that enabling easier transport on foot and on bike will benefit you economically, rather than hurt business.
>>1915624ironically this would be alleviated with less private cars taking up space on the road. Yet another cyclical transport problem.
>>1915716nice, wish I could afford that area. Beautiful place and nice city. Great local rail too last I was there. God I want to move back to east coast cities, my cozy semi-rural suburb house is nice until you remember it's basically a prison whose lock and key is operated by camelfucker juice.
>>1916443Semi rural living is based if you're close enough to a nice small town. Its poverty tier otherwise
>>1915932I think there's a lot of overblown shit. With mass proliferation of internet laid over top of already effective systems for organizing "us vs. them" mentality, Americans are basically so sheltered now that they don't have to witness anything that challenges them if they don't want to, and can just continue to love in their chamber and think that any insane shit they see online is the daily reality in 100% of the country. More people in the US could really benefit from meeting people in their area, though that is hard because there is almost nothing left for doing so. You build everything around cars and suddenly there is no milling about. You build all your entertainment around electronics and suddenly there is no outside lollygagging. You put everyone in suburbs with yards and spacious houses and suddenly no one has a reason to go outside in public. Amp up the aggro on media and then you convince people there's only terror outside. In my opinion, the US is more in line with Fahrenheit 451 than it ought to be. It doesn't have to be this way, but people don't know what is real anymore, and they are trained so hard to follow certain ways and to fear others and all this other crap that they fear trying to do differently. If they just went out and met people they live around and had spaces to engage with them, then they'd realize it's not nearly as bad as the media sources say (and remember, both mass media and social media are operated by private companies that make the best profits off of fear and anger).
>>1916103I mean some of it really is just people fucking lying, or taking rare occurrences and passing them off as commonplace. Yes there are drug problems in the US, and yes there are homelessness problems in the US, and there are solutions, but they aren't always popular with people, specifically people who fear that they're gonna lose money if the problems are fixed. Those people in particular have an interest in pointing out problems over finding solutions.
>>1916447Ultimately one can look at the homelessness and drug crisis as a psyop designed to demoralize working people.
>>1916430>countering these positive effects are negative externalities emitted by stations and the access to neighborhoods that stations provide to criminals>findings reveal that proximity to the transit corridor alone without direct access conveys a negative impact on nearby housing values>properties near Bus Rapid Transit stops generally sold for less >immediate proximity to light rail stations and bus stops has significant negative impacts on properties located within a quarter mile of rail stops>may highlight a number of secondary impacts of rail transit on nuisance elements such as crime>results suggest that light rail service did not provide value to the neighborhoodsUh oh... >>1916431Sure, provide muh statistics, then I believe you.
>>1916483>proximity to transit corridor without direct accessDoesn't that mean houses built next to a rail but far from the actual terminus? If so then that isn't surprising, as values would be inherently lower, as you'd get the noise of the transit without the benefits, and lower income housing in general attracts more criminal elements (as part of what draws people to crime is their destitution). But this would be true for roads too; Houses built directly on a road with high car travel speeds or right off of a freeway will be worth less money because of noise in addition to the danger of such construction (for example, to a pet, a child, etc.)Either way we are evaluating this topic using a fucking google search result screencap, so I don't expect it to go places. Just thought that line in particular didn't make sense to bother mentioning. Like next you'll tell me shops suffer if they're built next to sewer treatment plants.
>>1916483Idk man I could screen shot every Zillow listing in the town but that's laborious. It's pretty easy to just check for yourself.
>>1915051Public transport is inefficient and terrible, and primarily low-class people use it.
>>1915081why do you think that is retard? When you purposely under-fund shit, it doesn't work as intended.That applies to literally everything. Christ, how fucking old are you?
>>1915096because you double nigger, if it was funded enough there'd be a bus every 15 mins as it was originally intended, not the poverty 2 hour gap.Goddamn yall need an econ class like yesterday.
>>1915866fucking this. People always argue the extremities of public transportation. It's as if we couldn't have both, to ya know as you beautifully put it, fill teh gap.Rational discussion on this site is a fucking pipe dream. However; you do get glimmers of hope like in the form of this comment.
>>1916141>t.csuite dog fucker
>>1916511>no proofsNoted.>>1916548Truth hurts, cuck.
https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/16636839612043960324th of July is coming up guys :^)
>>1916430I like how the first articles are a few decades old lol.Hey dummy, BART wasn't anywhere near as bad a decade ago as it is now.As city problems spiral out of control BART allows the filth to spill into places it would never naturally go. This is the current problem rising in Lafayette and the perception of the station is changing from asset to liability.While I only have personal stories to counter your halfassed googling of "why public transportation makes houses go up in value" I fucking guarantee you'll see more main stream sources picking this up as the problem gets worse.
>>1916545What part of this isn't sinking in you fucking mongoloid. We don't want public transportation. We like personal vehicles. We like going where we want to. Not everyone wants to live in an ant colony you literal NPC>inb4 "I can go wherever I want!"No, you can't. You will go where the reasons take you then your bird legs will get tired from trying to walk around a grocery store you disgusting subhuman
>>1916772I like not having to drive in the 10 mile radius covered by transit, and I like driving when I want to, not because I'm forced to. I am superior to you in every way I laugh at wagies doing their car commutes
>>1916776That's cool and all anon, but you actually just sounds like a retarded permavirgin and a toddler who can't do things for himself and needs others to help him because he's such a massive fuck up. Don't worry though, anon - times are changing. Gas the bums. Class war now.
>>1915051>Is public transport in America as horrible as claimed100%
>>1916546Buses often do go every 15 minutes during the daytime (let's not even get into nighttime), it's that buses don't go the exact same route you do.
>>1916778>I need to sit in traffic and pay the gas jew and put miles on my car to feel like a grown man. Literally the most loser shit imaginable. Anyways I'll be road tripping up into Vermont next weekend and it's going to be awesome. Stay poor.
>>1915096You just live in either a poor neighbourhood, a poor city, a poor state or a poor country. So I'll assume you're American.Or you're poor as fuck yourself, which is probably also true.Buses only have low frequency if there aren't enough important people - either economically or through "class" to warrant higher frequency. Density often plays a part, but you have to live somewhere that has sufficient population and with more important jobs to justify the cost of running more frequent transit/buses. If your local bus route only comes once every 2 hours...congratulations, you're not only poor, but you aren't even a truly valuable wage slave. You're probably 1 step above being homeless.
>>1915345californias government is just full of faggots who "lose" (steal) 90% of our tax dollars in bureaucracy
>>1915176It also has nothing to do with "racial homogeneity". I've lived in North America, Asia and Europe for extended periods of time. All 3 places are extremely ethnically and culturally diverse. Whether you're a ching chong Chinaman, a Nip, a Thai ladyboy it doesn't really matter. They're all ethnically distinct even to the point it's visually obvious. The issue is when you live in a piece of shit economically/politically/philosophically/culturally/theologically etc piece of shit garbage dumpster fire shit garbage country like the United Failed States of America that you start to see people killing each other on the subway or bus on a regular basis, but because the country has failed to invest in good education and health, they don't know why their lives are so terrible so they start blaming the Jews, niggers, towel heads or even other whites.Now unless your brain has room temperature IQ (which it obviously does) then you can see how diverse societies are always superior. Just try to compare North Korea - a country so fucking fucked up that they are always suffering from famines even though the leader has enough mass to cause more destruction than their shitty nukes...to...uh, how about we compare it to the world's most powerful country in existence: paradoxically, the USA which is also one of the most diverse.More brains with more knowledge = good. Racism, on the other hand, is like incest. It fucks you up until your entire genetic pool and lineage is made up of drooling retards.
>>1916834not gonna read all that
>>1916841That's okay, hillbilly.
>>1916840Dassssssssss rite! Niguh. Niguh niguh nigggggggg.Yeah you do need more programs. Smart leaders put money into caring for their citizens. I mean why wouldn't you? There is no good reason not to do this. The more people you have living and enjoying the outdoors is ideal. You can't fund or accomplish when your employer making a trip to the store to get canned potatoes.
>>1916844Why on earth would you do that when you can promise people a bunch of free stuff and then pocket the money instead?
>>1916269*who thought it would be a good idea to stop buying cheap russian gas to not get into trouble with the us overlords
>>1916820>WAAH WAAHH DADDY GUBMINT!!!!Seething poor can't afford a car lol
>>1916830>poor poor poor!>t. cannot afford a carLolLmao
I got fucking bed bugs from the bus the one time I rode it. When I got up noticed some little fucking shits crawling on the side of the chair. Looked closer and they were fucking bed bugs and I had a few on me. I had to throw away my clothes when I got home. Never rode that rolling trash can again with how many homeless sneak on them from the back entrance.
>>1916871>unironically citing compstat datat. 17 year old eye-talian living in suffolk county whose grandpa was a NYC cop
>>1915051I've never had trouble on it to be honest and I've loved in NYC and LA. It's just inconvenient compared to driving exactly where you want to go when you want to.
>>1916895>gets BTFO>unhinged projectionsCope cuck
>>1916906Ban evasion is against the rules
>>1916868You live in a country where the government mandates minimum parking, has unilateral control over where it runs highways, has zoned everything to be far apart, subsidizes every step on the chain of automotive production and consumption, and forces you to buy a car in order to participate in society. You're a little pay piggy on a farm that was socially engineered by government intervention at every level.
>>1916912Apply yourself, faggot.
>>1916928Nobody forces anyone to buy a car. People WANT to have a car because of how superior it is to any other option.Enjoy your sour grapes though.
>>1916834It's pretty obvious why the US is a basket case, it's because of the blood feud caused by slavery. There are two solutions to it and only one that is actually feasible. The unfeasible one that most of /pol/ would want is some kind of genocide. It isn't going to happen, but they'll fantasize about it in the smoldering ruins of their shithole country forever. The realistic option is to end the blood feud and actually work to fix the damage, which means spending a lot of money on providing social services to mostly black people until they build family histories of normalcy. All of the deranged homeless black people in the streets have nowhere to go, whereas I've personally been friends with or dated other white people with families that have mentally ill people who end up getting support from their families. It can't be overstated how much having huge amounts of black people cycling through jails just results in collateral damage like homeless schizos. According to official stats, Spain has more homeless per capita than the US and its mostly immigrants from North Africa and Latin America, and you'd hardly notice it riding the transit in Barcelona or Madrid. They're really not a huge problem, you can even find tourists on the internet asking why there are no homeless in Spain. That's mostly because Spain pays out the nose for social services.That's the cost for having an orderly society. If you don't want to pay the cost then you get America, where people prioritize carrying guns and basically avoiding each other out of fear. Then the resentment just fuels the blood feud over slavery, as Americans just blame the black people who still conspicuously reside in the areas of every city that look like war zones and shamble around in rags on the streets screaming at ghosts. As though their primary response to those things isn't just to constantly send cops in, which makes the problem worse. It's like Israelis being shocked bombs come out of Gaza.
>>1916956Incidentally this won't get fixed anytime soon, which is why I'm leaving. America is a dysfunctional society and the only reason it has dominated the past century so well is because it is geographically blessed. I'm not sure America will ever actually "collapse" because it has no serious regional enemies, but that also leaves it free to become as shitty as it is. External pressure isn't there to discipline it. At the same time it has an extremely damaging internal political dynamic because of the history of slavery and colonialism, which creates a pseudo-nationalism mostly in the south. It's a "pseudo-nationalism" just because it is still not very tied to the land, the south is just the vague historical heartland of the white nation of America because of the Civil War and slavery. But whites don't have some ideological goal of freeing the south as a nation, they ideally want all of America to act more like a white nation. So the internal nationalism doesn't have a coherent land that it wants to stake out, instead it's just a vague national conflict that is virtually never ending. That dynamic is what makes America a shithole where state politicians will genuinely sabotage the development of their own cities because the cities are "political rivals" or whatever. America will eat itself alive over this because there isn't a resolution to it. The libs think the resolution is to dilute whiteness with more immigrants, and the cons increasingly fantasize about a genocide that just isn't going to happen. Instead there is a middle ground of a police state that bizarrely glorifies "diversity". But on the upside for America, because it is geographically blessed, it will probably remain a rich basket case. But the consequence of being totally politically broken is that the only people with enough power to get through the gridlock are rich people, and they just feed themselves more benefits.
>>1916966And even though I'm not moving to China, I figure China probably really is going to overtake America. At least politically, China is blessed. They have a history of insane warfare like Europe, but unlike European empire through appeals to Rome the imperial dynastic history of China is one that makes nationalism a non-problem for most of the country. A few regions, notably Xinjiang, have clear national issues, but the bulk of mainland China has always been a hodgepodge of warlords claiming territories for personal rule, and often in bids to eventually establish themselves as a new dynasty. China has been very focused on imperial power for a long time, so that the sense of central state authority over China is extremely familiar and expected, whereas sub-national identities are rather weak (again, barring certain regions on the periphery)Then you add in the population size that is unified by this political concept of the Chinese state and you get probably one of the most formidable political unities on earth that would only be rivaled by a truly unified Europe, which isn't happening soon. Not a very big surprise that they have a bunch of glistening new cities and massive projects in the past 30 years. After the political turmoil of yet another imperial struggle the CPC consolidated power and now may be in the midst of the centuries long reign, another "dynasty" to rule China for 300 years or whatever. Whereas the totally senile and demented state of America is in denial about how fucked it is even though people literally argue against building trains because they think they'll get stabbed by one of the many insane people that wander around on the streets. They actually think that makes sense, that it's just the rational response to that condition, because their country is so fucked and state so eroded that the only practical thing they can do is carry a gun like they're in the apocalypse.
>waste your time in traffic>waste your money on fuel, insurance, registrations, maintenance, depreciating asset>every time you step on the gas to reach the red light faster, imagine an oil exec in the back of your car jumping for joy>cars getting more fuel ineffecient because roads are so dangerous that all new cars are big bulky suvs and trucksoh yes you are “free and independent” with your car and you can truly go wherever you want, just make sure to pay all the above and then youre ready to goThats why america collectively lost their shit when fuel prices went up, they literally cant afford their cars and dont have any other option to get around - what are they going to do, NOT buy fuel? NOT go to work? Who benefits from this paradigm? Oil companies. A bicycle is true freedom, and even the dreaded schedule of a bus or subway grants you more freedom with respect to mobility then a car ever will. The hobo who masturbates on the subway car has more freedom than you will ever experience
>>1916956>>1916966>>1916970>>1916971did not read
>>1916971>can't carry shit>limited distance>exposed to elementsThose grapes must be really sour lol
>>1916974>cant carry shitSaddlebags, and you dont carry anything in your car anyway>limited distanceIf youre a fat american maybe>exposed to the elementsdoes the rain hurt you? Cope harder
>>1916955If you asked 90% of Americans if they could survive without a car they would say no. It is de facto mandatory.
>>1916974When I need to carry something large I use my car. You retards really can't fathom someone having it both ways
>>1916975>SaddlebagsNot enough for weeks groceries, beer, etc.>you dont carry anything in your car anywayI do but you wouldn't know since you never had one. >If youre a fatOkay go 50 km each morning and evening. >rainEnjoy wet leafs, hail, ice, snow, slipping etc....Grapes = sour
>>1916981Ride your bike or train for some things, drive for other things. I know it's insane to fat mutts like you, but sometimes it's nice to go on an evening bike ride with your wife out to dinner or to beat traffic to work by bike
>>1916956>>1916966>>1916970>>1916971Read all that. Thank you.
>>1916971>>1916983If you drive for other things you're still """wasting""" money on insurance and registration and depreciation. So which is it?
>>1916991>insurance and registrationcar tax is £20/year, insurance is ~£300/year. I spend more than that on Aldi own brand Fosters piss.as for the running costs I'll just conveniently ignore those. you don't have to drive a five "liter [sic]" ford f-350 on 44s everywhere, shartymcshartface.>depreciationdon't care, didn't buy it new, and nobody actually does.
>>1916995Wait, so you're saying owning and driving a car actually *isn't* a huge financial burden? But /n/ has always told me the opposite...
>>1916983>FAT FAT FATRent free and mindbroken.
>>1916979Please remember, people that use walking, bikes, bus, trams, subways, trains and planes depending on situation, distance or mood instead of ideologie are whores.
>>1917018Learn English please!
>>1916981>not enough for weeks groceries, beernow I know you're fat because I can easily carry a months worth of groceries and still have room left over on a bike for other errands>okay go 50 km each morning and evening i only need to travel 17 km each morning and evening to get to work, but 50 km is not difficult when you're not a fat american and actually in shape>Enjoy wet leafs, hail, ice, snow, slipping etc....non argumentcars are just as susceptible to ice and snow retard, and when bike lanes and bike paths get plowed/salted they are perfectly safe, when i do fall on a bike its nbd whereas cars specifically need to be insured because the accidents and property damage they cause are so catastrophic it wipes out most americans savings
>>1917037>I can easily carry a months worth of groceries and still have room left over on a bikeNta but that is pure delusion unless you're subsisting on hardtack
>>1916868>just, like, drive car or walkCommunist cracker>>1916955Whatever helps you pee your pants in your shitbox in pride instead of shame, cagefaggot
>>1916776Only NPCs drive, you're an NPC.
>>1915099New Yorkers have low standards if any, what a surprise
>>1915257>just, like, drive car or walkCommunism
>>1915574>offers the best modality for individual transportation of people and goods, free from strict time tables, stations and subhumans you have to share space withEver considered a weapon, retard?>uhhh just, like, drive car or walk>car better CAR BETTER>LALALALALALA I NOT LISTEN CAR BETTEREnjoy your mandatory insurance and not actually owning your shitbox, NPC
>>1915640>>1915659>just, like drive car or walkYou're not convincing anyone with that reasoning, fag
>>1917037>FAT FAT FATRent free and mindbroken.>easily carry a months worth of groceriesLMAO no. Cope more though.>b-b-but FAT FAT FATKek absolutely OBSESSED.Go ahead and cycle 100km per day every day under any circumstance. You won't.>cars are just as susceptible to ice and snow retardNo. Cars are much safer than bikes and when you fall you will hurt yourself. I will have fun and skid around corners.Grapes = extremely sour
>>1917086>CAGE CAGE CAGE REEEEE-ACKSeething poor lol
>>1917091>considered a weapon>stabbed from behindNice weapon, retard. >uhhh just, like, drive car or walkYes. Cope more you seething poor.Grapes = extraordinary sour
>>1917095enjoy beetus lmao
>>1915051>A multimillionaire who got rich off of making cars is telling you that public transportation is inherently badYou tell me. Should I get my transportation advice from the CEO of Tesla?
>>1917110enjoy sour grapes lmao
>>1917091>Ever considered a weapon, retard?Nothing says "superior transportation" like needing to arm yourself to make sure you get where you're going safely.>not actually owning your shitbox>making payments>"I own the bus"
>>1916364>two cars in the driveway.How often do you think they use the BART?
>>1915051Elon musk is the CEO of Tesla and gets paid mostly in stock. Of course he's going to shill cars and shit on any competition to cars.