keeping up the discussion from the last thread...

I think a lot of people who wind up in the cockpit would be happier in maintenance while being a CFI (or some other non-airline, non-cargo job) on the side. it is by far the better job in terms of QOL and its getting pretty competitive on pay. you go into at most $10k of debt for an A&P vs. you will be in six figures of debt plus in a true poverty situation by the time you get your ATPL.

and getting through flight school if you already have an A&P? they'll literally pay for you to take lessons if you are willing to work for them. the A&P shortage is insane now that the military is doing whatever it can to not let its maintainers go.

So when does being a pilot get me pussy? Been at it 4 years and finally at an airline, I still get btfo by my better looking and more charming friends

>>1896927
I am absolutely not made to be a CFI. Rather introverted, not interested in speaking or making conversation.

>>1897037
Who cares about the women? You didn't become a pilot just to fuck random girls did you?

>>1897207
>Rather introverted, not interested in speaking or making conversation.
Same. If I ever tried to become a CFI nobody would hire me based on my personality alone. Is there any hope for me to ever make it to the airlines? Do I just have to be rich enough to buy my own plane and fly it around until I get to 1500 hours?

>>1897207
>>1897220
just tap into technical autism. cfi is the only way to bang out the 1500 hours in like under two years reliably

>>1897220
>>1897207
Boohoo nigga, no one is gonna want to sit next to your unsociable ass in a plane even if you skip becoming a cfi

>>1897220
>>1897207
Nobody expects you to be a social savant, they just expect you to not be an asshole and that you know how to teach that’s it.

>>1897064
San Andreas desert airfield vibes.

>>1897320
What if being an asshole is in my nature? My dad was always an asshole and treated me like shit so I pretty much learned how to socialize with people from that. I try to keep myself completely emotionless all the time because of that and I don’t make small talk with people or interact with them in any way that isn’t specifically for the purpose of performing the job at hand. Half the reason why I want to be a pilot is because it seems like a job that requires you to be as emotionless and technical as possible.

>>1897326
For being an asshole I mean being needlessly picky or aggressive toward the student/colleague.
A job that require to be a robot is engineering.
Try to work on your social skills anon, not for now since even if you don’t talk much you will find a batch of students that actually like instructors like that, but more for when you get into the airlines.
4h of flight with someone who doesn’t talk is really shitty and networking is a really important skill since you get to find out a lot of stuff that the company doesn’t tell you.

>>1897408
>networking
with students?

>>1897444
With colleagues when you get in an airline and with other cfi’s when you are still an instructor.
Best advice I can give you is look out and help each other, aviation is a small world, making a good name for yourself helps in more than one way especially when you get your base.

>>1896927
How hard is it to get an A&P? What is the commitment like? I have been instructing for 4.5 years and I have no desire to go to the airlines. I love tinkering with my motorcycle, and think that MX work would suit my personality well. The next place I intend to live has some A&P training options, so I might just give it a go

>>1897510
30 months is the usual time at a technical college.

>>1897514
I can live with that. Anything stand out as particularly challenging in the study material or practical work?

>>1897514
You can get it fourteen months easily through a community college. Some might be a little longer but if anyone tells you anything over fifteen months that's a bad sign.

The thirty months is if you want to get it through work experience. There are pros and cons to each.

>>1897522
Its a breeze. If you can pass your tests for your pilot licenses you have the mental ability to pass your A&P tests.

>>1897524
so some flight schools will really discount/cut the cost of flight training if you're one of their mechanics? because that sounds like a smarter avenue for people on the fence about being a pilot but still want a career in aviation.
any idea what a&ps usually make? google is hard to trust, they even get pilot salaries wrong

>>1897555
Hey friend, not an A&P quite yet, taking my O+P on the 3rd of April, but United and American are both union, and you can look up the payscales online with a little digging. Most regionals will start in mid to high 20's, majors are usually high 20's to mid 30's.
I'm interviewing Friday for United at Dulles, VA, and the pay fresh out of school is 36.10 an hour. The shortage is so bad, they're letting you apply for positions as far out as 6 months from getting your A&P.

>>1897637
>>1897555
AmericanAirlines A&Ps top out at around $180k and then field trips and overtime can push you past $210k if you're really ambitious. I think American starting is like $56/hr fresh out of A&P school.

t. buddies with some guys who work out of the Tulsa MX base

>>1897522
Depends on how hard they push the FAR's and rote knowledge of common alloys.

If you have any semblance of mechanical aptitude, it's worth doing.
At worst you will learn a lot.

>Work for aerospace engineering company
>Company will pay for flight school
I’d be an idiot to not take the opportunity but I don’t want to make flying my career. What is the general experience like for the “hobbyist” pilot? Are flying clubs worth it, or is it like a timeshare?

>>1897746

I'm a hobbyist pilot you could say. No desire to do it commercially, just love flying. There aren't really any helicopter clubs as far as I know, but usually you can contact local schools, set up a mini checkride type thing, and basically prove to them you aren't retarded. After that, they usually let you rent their birds.

<100hrs a year = rent
100-150hrs a year = lease
150-200hrs a year = co-own
200+hrs a year = buy the plane

Rules of thumb I was given that seem to make sense.

>>1897524
That sounds even better
>>1897741
Nice, I think I’m gonna give it a shot

>>1897645
intriguing. i wouldn;t mind workign on planes for southwest. i can't decide between pilot and AMT. though from what i understand, it isn't hard to become a pilot once you're an AMT

Does being an airline pilot make you more attractive to women or do they not care about that shit anymore?

>>1897900
>Doing something for a woman
If you want to be an airline pilot, do it because you want it, not because a random woman you've never even met might be slightly more attracted to you.

>>1897902
>might be slightly more attracted to you
It would have to be a lot more than “slightly” because I’m an extremely ugly loser. Anyway I’m not doing it for that reason, just want to know if it will help me with women.

>>1897912
Flight attendants are usually massive whores, take that as you will.

>>1897900
the autism of pilots is known now. women who have spent more than a few weeks on the dating market are aware that it isn't the nineties anymore and today's pilots aren't chads who cut their teeth in naval aviation.

when I was a single man and sleeping around more than a few women would ask me wtf was wrong with pilots. I thought it was funny cause I ask myself the same thing every day.

>>1897900
career doesn't matter. at least to zoomer women. they only care about how tall you are, really. that's about it

>>1897994
>naval aviation
Naval aviators are all fags. Just watch Top Gun. The entire movie is just one long homoerotic softcore porn.

Randomly took a ride in a Cessna bout two months ago and said shit can’t believe I’ve never done this before. Just got my ppl, and wondering what I should do next. Primarily as a hobby: even in the short space of time it seems like the people that fly for money are the exact same kind of people that play video games for money: they end up hating everything about it.
So, Go for instrument? What’s the cheapest thing I can fly that’s still fun, used Cherokee? Should I lurk more or start driving trains.

>be a&p
>work for major airline (only place where the money is)
>still get your life schedule destroyed but without the pay of an intercontinental pilot
>also get exposed to more chemicals and hazardous conditions
sounds intriguing but why would i choose that over being a pilot

>>1898023
Do aerobatic, uprt was the most fun I ever had in a plane during training and I plan on doing the aerobatic rating as well once I have money to spend for it.

>>1897900
I won’t repeat what the other anons already said but to add to them it’s only 2 cases.
1 when you walk around in uniform
Women like the charm of the uniform, if worn properly of course otherwise you’ll look like a bum
2 they will be attracted from the expensive stuff you can buy with your salary, of course this applies to any other high paying job but is still a bonus of being a pilot (when you get to have a good salary that is).

>>1898037
Unusual attitudes was a lot of fun.
I’ll look into it, thanks anon.

>>1896924
give it to me straight, airline bros. from zero hours just beginning training, how long does it take to get into a major airline? idc if it isn't a big boy like delta, it could be a lcc like frontier or something.
from what i understand this career is a fucking slog up until you're in the left seat at a regional

>>1898023
You flew a plane for the first time and got your ppl two months later? Shit, you can’t even schedule a checkride less than two months out where I live.

>>1898048
basically if you want to become a pilot fast, live in florida or arizona

>>1898039
What if you’re a first officer making minimum wage at a part 135 airline but still have the uniform?

>>1897989
And don't forget the golden rule : never have sex with FA (or any coworkers in general)

>>1898047
In my experience 7 years, 8 most likely.
Took me 2 years and an half to finish the integrated atpl program, I don’t have an idea on how long will it take for you to get the 1500h since it’s not needed where I live but I think it’ll take around 2 or 3 years of instructing, correct me if I’m wrong.
When you manage to get into an airline it will take around 3 to 4 months for introductory training/distance learning/type rating and base allotment.
Add another year or two for line training building hours and you get around that.

Somewhat related but I feel really lucky about flying in Europe considering I’m flying a 737 with 300h of experience without having to deal with the bullshit that is being forced into instructing for 1500 hours.
>>1898050
Hope that the uniform and charm is enough, a warning about the uniform, remember that you represent the company so act accordingly or suffer the consequences of bringing shame to the ones that pay you.
Inb4 corporate slave, I’m saying this not for them but for you since you could lose your job in an extreme case.

Heard a story from a friend of mine of 3 people that acted like idiots and got the me too treatment.

>>1898053
sometimes i hear you can hit 1500 in 2, maybe a little bit under 2 years. i've spoken to a guy who did it in like 1.6/1.7 years.
in america i think the big concern is the 1500 hour grind and paying your dues in the regionals. i don't know how long you have to stay at a regional though. some have quick upgrade times, so you can start building valuable pic turbine time but i don't know for sure

>>1898053
>>1898054
Instructing definitely varies place to place, where I live I can consistently fly in the winter. It took a bit of patience for it to really pick up, but right now I’m doing 80-100 hours a month. Will be done after maybe 14-15 months of instructing

>>1898023
Knock out your tailwheel and high performance endorsements. Complex is good too, but IMO is not needed because my career path pilots must get it for their multi-commercial if not their single engine commercial. These endorsements are good for life, so knock them out now. Tailwheel is actually hard, and if an instructor/school wants to make you fly X amount of hours for high performance, walk away. Its a dumb endorsement and needs all of an hour in a C182 to get one.

>>1898145
>Its a dumb endorsement and needs all of an hour in a C182 to get one
Yeah that was my high performance lol. When my instructor signed it he said "congratulations you know how to use cowl flaps now"

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Why does it keep happening?

>>1898179
Shit ATC instructions to pilots only paying half attention.

>>1898179
Horribly designed airports with confusing taxiway signage. Taxiways sometimes change names even though its straight line. And they weren't even foreign, its probably a nightmare for those guys.

>>1898187
>Horribly designed airports with confusing taxiway signage.
The airports at issue have had the same layout for decades.

There's an aircraft mechanic apprenticeship after opening for registration near me.
Is it a decent enough field to get into?
Trying to get out of my tech job because I hate sitting in front of a computer all day, I need to work with my hands

>>1898188
You're right. If its been there a while, then it's inherently a good design.

Is there any way to realistically practice landings in a simulator at home? The ground effect simulation in MSFS is garbage and the controls of the C172 are way too twitchy compared to the real thing.

Did touch and goes today. Trying ti figure out what it feels like to get the flare right. I either go too late and just have to flare hard or too early and then have way too much height while floating. Crosswinds didn't help but I was happy they were there as I need to learn how to deal with them.

>>1898221
I was also wondering that. Although I was practicing in a 152 today. I've flown a 172 once, and it felt like it might have been easier to land. Either way I feel like I suck and really need more practice.

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Went to a used book sale at the library today and managed to snag some vintage autism books today.

>>1898254
Way to doxx yourself Johnny, get REKT

>>1898250
>>1898221
No. Sims will never give you the windage and g's that you'll experience in the real deal. Don't become a seethesimmer.

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ok 121 bros...... after a lot of thinking i think i've taken the allegiantpill. home every night is such a big deal. if i actually manage to get a life i don't want to lose it because of my career.

>>1898287
Seems like a solid gig. Got an offer from them a while back. Ultimately didn't take it because the pay didn't justify breaking my current contract. The guys interviewing were great. Cool guys

>>1898286
That's what I was thinking would be the answer. Just can't replace the real thing.

>>1898240
Pick a point, use that to judge height. Do about a hundred landings for the proper muscle memory. Remember that the plane gets heavier, so even though you’re moving the yoke back evenly for a good flare, you’re going to need an increasing amount of force (and obviously not too much).

>>1898291
I've been aiming at the numbers on the runway currently. I feel like one of the major problems I'm having is I'm pulling back too much when I first flare, then not hard enough after I've settled down after shedding all that speed then coming down onto the runway harder than I'd like. My instructor tells my I'm doing great and it's far smoother than some of the people he has taught. I have less than 24 landings in about 7 hours of flying. I think as I practice. I will get better. It definitely feels like a thing you have to get a feel for with muscle memory as you mentioned.
I really love the feeling of flight though.

>>1898240
I've never "flared" the airplane.
I keep my eyes on the aiming point until I am over it and then pull the power. Simultaneously I roll my eyes to the end of the runway and start rounding out the pitch. I keep the airplane flying in ground effect slightly increasing the pitch angle until the airplane not longer wants to fly.

My instructor would aggressively yank the control back every time and always slammed it in. Don't do that.

>>1898292
I mean, for after the aiming point, when you’re in ground effect, look out and be sure to focus on something. Some people say end of runway, some halfway down, some even look out the window. The important thing is just something so you aren’t guessing. That will assist with your flare, particularly when you’re new and are still feeling things out. Also think this: do not land. You don’t want to land: just tell yourself you want to keep flying just above the runway (and when you get to short field landings you’ll stick with the same technique: what makes you land is airspeed + throttle, or in simpler terms: it’s impossible to keep the plane in the air once you pull power: a good landing is trying to stay in the air as long as possible).
Landings just take an enormous amount of practice and people still fuck them up after thousands of hours. If you’re not bouncing back off the runway and you’re on centerline, it’s a perfectly fine landing. I solo’d with about double your time and I barely could land at all when I did (and only was able to do that because I finally got an instructor that actually explained that a landing isn’t a landing but just flying until the plane can’t fly anymore), so you’re doing great.

>>1898294
>>1898293
This is a perfect summation as well, though I would comment that just because some people do shit flares doesn’t mean that isn’t a flare. You’re just doing it properly. You don’t want to hit the runway when the airplane still wants to fly, and at the same time you don’t want to stall ten feet off the runway. It’s a balance.

>>1898293
Your description sounds like what my instructor is trying to get across to me. He demonstrated one and your description was that. Nice gentle slowdown going deeper and deeper into the stall horn less than a foot off the ground before it just sets down gently.
>>1898294
I think you are spot on, I just need more practice. My instructor has been teaching me to keep flying the plane and don't let it touch the ground as long as I can.
We did a couple power on landings were I kept it at 1500 and just stayed in ground effect as long as I could. It was a long runway at 5k' so he said you need to aim for at least half of the runway in ground effect then you can let it touch.
>>1898295
These are the two fears I'm battling right now.

>>1898296
Sounds like you’ll be fine, you got a solid instructor and you’re thinking about things.
The main thing is just keep working at it and don’t worry, you will get better every time (even if sometimes it doesn’t feel like it).
Landing just happens so fast that you simply cannot think yourself through it. It’s just like catching a ball. If someone tosses it straight up you got time, you can see how it’s moving, but if they throw it directly at you, you just have to react. And you can react because you’ve caught thousands of things in your life. The difference with flying is you have to do a whole pattern every time and you can’t do it 24/7, so it becomes a long trudge.
But as long as you’re thinking about it you will get it. Before every landing think about what you want to do, and after every landing think about what went wrong and what could be improved.
Dunno where you’re flying, but if you’re in a windy area be aware of the winds (well, for flying the pattern too, wind correction…) for landing. Yoke left and right to stay on centerline, and then rudders (typically opposite) to keep the nose straight. If you’re holding center with nose straight it makes everything else easier. But you’re way ahead of where you should be, I really didn’t start doing the above wind correction until like thirty plus hours in.
I thought of quitting every single week of working on my private. It is an incredibly frustrating experience, particularly for someone like you or I who actually thinks about it. A lot of pilots are just dumb and do it until they get it, they can’t explain why. Being able to explain how to do something yet not able to do it… frustrating. But incredibly satisfying as you get better, and you will be better than any of the room temp iq pilots who can’t explain how things actually work.

>>1898298
Thanks anon. I feel the same, he is an amazing instructor and I am very happy to fly with him. He's been hands off as much as he can to the point he says I don't give him much to do. We've done slow flight, power off and on stalls, circles on a point, and s-turns over a road, as well as steep turns and emergency decent. This is the first time we've focused just on pattern work with touch and goes.
I'm in the PNW and the airport I'm at is a convergent zone so the weather changes on a dime. We went to a neighbor untowered airport for practice today since our local one was quite busy. We had a slight crosswind of about 5-8k. Everything slight feels huge in a 152 to me though.
I like to overthink things and really want to get better, it's expensive after all. Plus I just really love when a landing is just buttery smooth.
Next week I start flying hopefully at least three times a week and if we do nothing but pattern work and T/Gs I will still be happy. It's hard to describe just how much I love the sensation of flight. Just got to work on the in-between a bit more.

Power idle over the numbers. Start pulling back slowly and add a little bit of power back (maybe 200rpm, I just tap it). Look down the runway to the end. And just hold the plane back, it’s going to want to tip forward but just hold it back. Youre not yanking it back, you are keeping it in that attitude, using more pressure to keep the nose in the same position. Wheels touch and throttle idle again and keep holding back.

>>1896924
Just replaced fuel pumps on this. Pain in the fucking ass.

>>1898309
Thanks anon. I'll keep it in mind when I practice next. I'm looking forward to practicing it more now after everyones advice.

>>1897760
>rent
>lease
Sorry, I'm kind of retarded. What's the difference?

>>1898324
Rent is for the day, lease is or long term.

>>1898314
If you are still having trouble go up and practice slow flight. The transition from normal cruise to 5 kts over stall speed mirrors the control inputs/attitude applied while landing.
The main difference is that in slow flight you are getting the airplane to maintain altitude by using the throttle on the "back side of the power curve" while in landing you are using no power.
You can also practice a descent in a slow flight regime.
Good news is that there is a point where a normal landing becomes second nature. The "bad" news is that there are soft and short field landings that you also need to master prior to a check ride.

>>1898260
Kek, if Johnny Walker is still alive, I'm sure he'd appreciate the company at the nursing home, since the manual was printed in 1968.

>>1898324

Rent is essentially pay by the hour. Usually it is a wet rate, so you don't even pay for fuel. The place I rent from, if I get gas somewhere else, I bring them the receipt after I get back and they reimburse me per gallon at the fuel cost at the home airfield. If it's more expensive where I got gas, I pay a bit, if it's less expensive, they pay me back a bit.

Lease is paying for a certain period of time owning the aircraft. You lease it for 6 months or whatever, it stays with you, you can fly it as much or as little as you want. You pay for gas, but that's about it.

The huge pros to renting and leasing are the maintenance. When you lease, you aren't required to pay for any of the maintenance done on the aircraft. You might have to pay for oil or whatever, but even then might get reimbursed for it. Something breaks, the lease is terminated/pro rated, they take the bird back and it's their problem to fix.

Leasing is usually ideal for private hobbyists but ego always gets in the way. Guys want to be able to say they "own" an aircraft. They obsess over wanting something to call theirs. Ownership is a pain in the ass and only really recommended for guys who fly a ton, or guys who are A&Ps (can do the work themselves legally). I know a A&P AI who has a Cherokee 6 he takes his family on trips in and he said ownership is stupid cheap because he does all the work himself and can even annual it himself.

>>1898345
Can you lease old planes for a reasonable price? All I see online are leases for brand new cessna 172's going for like $5000 a month. I want to lease some old piece of shit for cheap and use it for time building for a few months because I don't have the money to buy one and I don't want to deal with the maintenance. If I can just get a few hundred hours and get to 500tt I can entirely skip the cfi route and get a job flying for some charter company.

>>1898338
Slow flight is one of the things we practiced a few times. Maybe some more slow flight and just more T/Gs will help me figure out how to get this down.

>>1898393
All slow flight teaches you is throttle for altitude, pitch for airspeed. Useful and helpful to practice, and it will help with your approaches, but if you want to improve landings, just practice landings.

I feel like you got like three different guys telling you all the same thing in slightly different words. Hopefully helpful, though, or at least keeps your mind awake.

>>1898394
All the anons advice here has been helpful. I've been going over in my mind how yesterday went and how I could have improved.
I think I've been focusing too much on the flare aspect and not shifting my vision down the runway so I less flare and more level out with no power and bleed speed as low as I can while trying to keep the plane from touching for as long as I can.
As you said, what is really going to help me is I need to practice it more. I have three flights scheduled next week and if T/Gs is all we do I'll be happy since I know with that I can improve.

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>>1898396
You'll get it anon.
One day it will all instantly become second nature. Just remember, over the aiming point, power off and eyes at the end of the run way. Hold it off, hold it off, hold it off.

>>1898414
It definitely feels like one of those things you just have to get. I've had other challenges that have had moments like this and always highly valued when that moment came. I'm very much looking forward to my get it moment for landings. Also your pic related was me yesterday, and don't call my Shirley.

>>1898288
how did they describe working there to you, if you remember?

Just got done after flying all night long, holy fuck I hate cargo. If any of you dudes out there ever consider cargo, you’d better think twice. Go fly pax first and see if you can tolerate flight attendant bullshit before you cross into 2.5 weeks on the road with Captains whio can’t into the majors while at night bullshit.

>>1898550
Is it really that bad? I've always wanted to go for cargo because I'm more of an introvert and I don't like dealing with people if I can avoid it.

>>1898550
I don't get why cargo pilot jobs are so coveted when you pretty much have to work night shifts for the rest of your life. Seems like a good way to destroy your health and cut years off your life. Same thing with long haul passenger flights. You would think flying narrowbody passenger jets on short trips during the day would be the the peak of aviation jobs, not flying for 8+ hours across the ocean every night.

>>1898550
Sounds like you made a giant mistake. XD

I was on a 15/13 schedule at my last 135 gig and holy balls did that suck. Waking up in a Marriott after being on the road for 8 days and knowing you still had another week to go was soul-crushing. On the 8/6 now and life is so much better. Every day I wake up so grateful that I left the long rotations behind.

>>1898449
It seems great if you live in one of their junior bases. You really are home every single night. You typically fly from your base to some airport then back and thats your day. Either you do the Morning shift from 6am-11ish or the afternoon from 11am-6pmish. The people on the interview board were awesome. Best interview I ever had. Totally chill guys both pilots. Training is quick with class dates <1 month away.
The pay isn't great. I spoke to a friend who works there and he said he clears about 70-75k as an FO. The union sucks and management is terrible.

>>1898571
>You would think flying narrowbody passenger jets on short trips during the day would be the the peak of aviation jobs, not flying for 8+ hours across the ocean every night.
In an absolute hour basis, you get more flying hours per day with the long hauls so you have to fly fewer days of the month.

hello I like airplanes

>>1898591
is he a first year fo? the payscales on apc are a bit higher, i thought they got six figures over there

>>1897900
They don’t give a shit. It’s not the 1960s anymore. Most people traveling through airports are not in a good mood. So believe me they are not eyeballing you wanting to suck your cock.

https://youtu.be/S0Tzfi5iLwc

Is FlightGear a good sim? The stock Cessna 172 seems very realistic.

>>1897900
>>1898632
I've had great luck with women and being a pilot. It's a great conversation starter. Maybe it doesn't have the same glamour as it used to but it shows you're adventurous, have a career, and are responsible all qualities that women like. Maybe try being less autistic or ugly?

>>1898613
Yeah hes first year FO.

>>1898776
Post face

>>1898776
well first year FO pay is garbage for all airlines iirc, it's a year of line training and shit. i think it jumps up to six figs at year 2

>>1898790
Endeavor pays $110/hr starting. At minimum guarantee, that’s $99k year one

>>1898853
sure, but you get that regional "QOL"

>>1898913
Explain to someone who has never been in the airlines.

Any tips on getting better at just using sight picture versus avionics for leveling off? I'm a relative noob. I have to look at the attitude indicator and altimeter more often than I think I should have needed to over my first couple lessons.

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>>1898933
7am waking up in the morning gotta be fresh gotta go down stairs. Gotta have my bowl gotta have cereal. Seeing everything the time is going. Ticking on and on and everybody rushing, gotta get to the van spot. Gotta catch my van. I see my crew mates. Sitting in the front seat, kicking in the back seat. Gotta make my mind up. Which seat will I take? It’s go home day it’s home day gotta give up for go home day. Looking forward to the weekend weekend. Go home day go home day.

Chores, chores yeah
Chores and paying bills yeah
Fun fun fun fun

7:45 were driving down the highway
Cursing so fast the van driver is going to kill us
Wx, mx, annoying FAs, i want to go home
Fun fun think about fun
I wish I knew what it is
It’s go home day

>>1898951
https://youtu.be/kfVsfOSbJY0

>>1898973
CUNNY!

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>>1898934
Read chapter 3 of the Airplane Flying Handbook.

https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/04_afh_ch3.pdf

>>1898934
The attitude indicator is an artificial horizon and therefore inferior to the actual horizon
I tell this to all my students but most of them don't seem to get it. Force yourself to look outside the airplane using the instruments as a supplement and you'll begin to understand.

>>1899033
I have the same problem students just want to stare at the instruments. I had that problem when I was learning, too. I've considered covering up everything except the basic VFR required stuff to make them look outside.

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>>1898951
i think i got into the wrong field

>>1898934
As a student pilot, you really shouldn't be looking at your attitude indicator for most maneuvers and especially while landing.
For landing, you only need to reference:
>aiming point
>airspeed
back and forth until you are over your point, then close the throttle and begin rounding out by looking at the far end of the runway. Keep the plane flying and off the ground as long as possible. When the ground rises up, pitch back a little more to keep it off and repeat until the mains touch down. Small movements and keep your feet working to maintain center line.
Your attitude indicator while landing is more of a liability than a help. Let me guess, you are using a glass cockpit for your PPL?

Is it worth it to get the CFI for someone who just wants to instruct friends and family? I have my commercial multi.

>>1899212
Wouldn't mix friends with finances. Aviation or not.

Unless you're not worried about money and can actually just teach them for fun, then disregard

>>1899212
I don't get it, why do you have a commercial license if you don't have a cfi? You know you need like 1200 more hours before you can get a job right?

>>1899254
Military got me my commercial multi.

>>1898299
>>1898296
>>1898240
Thanks for the great advice anons. Did T/Gs today and out of the 13 landings we did, 8 my instructor said were unassisted. Done with a light left quartering headwind. I think I might have figured it out. If weather permits, hopefully I can do more and nail every landing after that.

>>1899261
What did they assist you with?
Not sure where you are with training but nothing is worse than a touchy CFI. Landings took much longer to learn because my instructor was a nervous flyer and I could feel control input manipulation on every flight. It took me flying alone to really get the hang of it. And it took longer to even get a solo because for some reason my school seems to think every pre-solo landing needs to be absolute perfection.
My biggest gripe is that instructors seem to think Cessna 152s or 172s are fragile. Believe me, I've slammed that shit so hard on the ground during my training that I could've bounced to the fucking moon and never bent metal, popped a tire, or otherwise structurally damaged the airplane.
You'll be fine.

>>1899268
I came down pretty hard today in a 152, hard enough we bounced back into the air again. He just said, that was a learning experience. I had far too little speed coming in so we just dropped on round out.
He had his hands off the controls and was just asking me what I thought of our current angle, speed, altitude and so on. He's very hands off and really likes to let you experience things but will jump in when he has to. He even had me do a side slip today to shed some altitude and speed to make an approach better.
I can see how some instructors could be a bit too hands on. I have no idea how I will be able start doing CFI once I'm at that point and need to build hours. I've taught a few people to drive and found that uncomfortable, in the air seems like it would be a much harder experience to just let the student experience what they need to.

>>1899268
>What did they assist you with?
Sorry, I didn't answer your question. The main thing he assisted with was when I would pull back not enough or too much on the roll out then not enough or too much on the flare. Helping me to find the balance without flying the plane into the ground or dropping out of the sky hard. The first five of this session I needed that help. However after that I started to get it and we kept going and he would offer nit pick criticisms (good thing) to help me understand where I could have improved while telling me when a landing was better.

>>1899274
Keep us posted on your progress.
We're all gonna make it.

>>1899276
Will do, these threads are fantastic. Further I fucking love flying. We have another flight scheduled tomorrow however the weather looks like it's going to be shit. Hopefully next week. I'm just happy I made some measurable progress, really makes me want to get right back in the cockpit.

>>1899268
>My biggest gripe is that instructors seem to think Cessna 152s or 172s are fragile.

A&P here-
Parts of them are.
If you are the type who "drives the plane" into the ground, it tears the shit out of the forward cluster, and you can bend things or pop welds and not know it.

On the opposite end are the ones who forget it has a nosewheel, or who think they are still flying a F-100, and they'll drag the ass trying to aerobrake the thing. Usually the tiedown loop takes the abuse, but I have had to fix a couple wrinkled booms.

What you sound like you're doing is the best case if you absolutely have to see how bouncy that big spring gear leg is. The worst that usually does is flatspot the shit out of the mains, though doing that in a crosswind can get sporty.

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Bros it's been 7 months since ive touched any study material ever since. I felt so burnt out constantly studying for my ppl checkride and dealing with the crooks at my last school that I really dropped the ball with studying. I'm planning on starting my IFR training in a couple of months but I feel kinda lost on where to start. I got sheppard air to do closer to my written exam date but I want to know if theres anything good out there besides the faa published handbooks.

Also any suggestions for airports with varied ifr procedures to practice at in xplane?

>>1899387
Whatever airports you are going to potentially do your check ride at. Better to be familiar with them than do weird ass approaches in places you will never go.

>>1899387
Chair fly going through the relevant procedures and go through the theory rereading your study material+study the manual of your plane again.
Do a question bank if you have a written exam.
That’s all you need xplane is a nice tool but it might have outdated procedures and might develop a bias in you so my best advice is to study from the chart and leave it at that.
Do a couple of briefings on your own and see if you miss anything or are clunky going through the approach chart.
Don’t worry too much anon, if I passed an airline selection after a year of not flying by doing a simulator and studying surely you can get through ifr training with no problem.

>>1899385
I only recently found out that you can tail strike a 152. I thought it was impossible...or at least extremely difficult to do given the high nose up attitude it would take.
How are trainer aircraft like 152s/172s inspected for hard landings and other hidden structural damage? The ones at my flight school are all 40 years old and have been crashed and abused nearly non-stop for that time.

Flying at an extremely busy non-towered airport and radio frequency is already clogged up as it is. Foreign students...
KABC RADIO CHECK!
>KABC RADIO CHECK!
KABC RADIO CHECK!
>KABC RADIO CHECK
FAA needs to ban all non-US pilot training.

Anybody here ever work for Allegiant? I might be getting involved with them sometime in the near future.

>>1899413
Nta and not a mechanic either but a good walk around is a good start.
Scratches, bumps, cracks and missing paint are all tell tale signs.
For internal structural damage it’s hard to spot without removing panels but abnormal vibrations/noise can be an indication.

I still can’t believe people can tail strike a 172 to be honest.

>>1899413
One, while I loved aviation, my interest was in the birds, not the associated federal bullshit involved in steering them.
So I watched. I saw a hard landing, that plane was flagged. While it may seem condescending I treated new pilots like toddlers.
Two, we did 25 hour inspections. Those add up fast, and much to the chagrin of my bosses, I would not hesitate to red flag a plane if I found wrinkled/cracked/broken shit.

I treated flying as a religion.
That's a lot of why I eventually got out of it. had a manager tell me to shoot ace hardware pop rivets in the horizontal stab of a Cessna 150.
I invited him to "go fuck himself". He said I might get fired if I did not do so, so I locked my box and rolled it out of the hangar. I have not worked on a plane in 20+ years.

Far too many people are detached from what it means "To Fly"., and what it represents, and treat it as a commodity.

Now? If I have to go somewhere, I drive. If I had the money, I'd own my own plane, and I'd fly, and FUCK the TSA, FAA, ETC.

But, I don't.

>>1899418
>I still can’t believe people can tail strike a 172 to be honest.

Watched a friend of an uncle do it, he flew F100's in Vietnam.

Uncle was PIC but let friend land. friend went full autopilot and fucking aerobraked a Skyhawk.

I wrote off the damage, back when I could do shit like that.

>>1899416
what's your interest in them

>>1899432
>Fuck faa and regs
>But I have to use the aviation Approved nuts and bolts
Little bit of dissonance there

https://youtu.be/QdbR3Jba7A4

RIP to this girl but kind of seems like it really comes down to pilot error. Blows past the MDA and clips a smoke stack in probably the easiest plane to handle in imc.

>>1899505
I just heard about this when looking up what happened to a trainer that is being put back into service at my local strip. I grew up in that area, never heard of anyone clipping the stacks. Can only bet that was big news since nothing ever happened in that town beyond methheads attacking each other on occasion.

>>1899484
Probably.
I've been watching the FAA slowly destroying general aviation through all sorts of bureaucratic nonsense, but making repairs adhere to an agreed set of standards was one of the few good things they (Or rather the earlier CAB) did for the field.

Be a cfi bros, its great

>tfw my CFI I really really like at my flight school only works on weekends, after he retired from the AF, went Civilian, and does this as a side gig (which, is good - he's not just racking up hours)
>he doesn't even block out scheduling during the week in my Flight School's system
I want to rack up hours quicker. Is there an etiquette around this? This guy is a really engaging, good instructor that paces well with me. But I want to get on a schedule quicker than the hour of flight-time per weekend I can squeeze in with him each week (He's constantly blocked up), especially as days get longer over the spring and summer. Is there a good etiquette to both, saying "Hey, I need a guy available on weekday nights" (that's the easy part, provided we all communicate), AND figuring out how to translate EVERY single lesson we're on to a less experienced CFI? Am I better off just sticking with ONE CFI, or should I try bounce around? I want to get my PPL before the end of the summer.

>>1899733
You should talk with him about that, maybe he can recommend you a good cfi

>>1899733
You're wasting money if. it flying 2-3 times a week. If the instructor is unable to fly according to your schedule, get a new instructor. Remember, they are your employee. Your options are pay them more to accommodate your schedule or find someone else.

>>1899717
Explain. Usually everyone shits on it.

>>1899844
I think he's having a bit of a laugh

>>1899850
Why is it so bad? Is it because most people here are autistic?

>>1899853
Its horrible in the context of the flight school pyramid scheme. As a retirement job or side hustle? Pretty cool. It basically comes down to whether you can individually pick your students and/or own your own plane.

At a GA airport I used to work at there was a mid-thirties guy who mostly did A&P shit out of his own hanger as his bread and cutter but also had his CFI and would do taildragger endorsements with his own 170 as part of his overall general aviation business he had going. Made a lot of scratch and it was never a grind. Just an excuse to go flying a little bit teebeeych.

There's a lot of money in this industry, I understand that the top-end of the airline scale is really great but there's a lot of ways to use your tickets to make a good living with not a lot of grind.

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Hey /gag/

I just finished up a part 141 IFR course over 8 months and about 70 hours in total. Does that sound about par for the course? I tried to fly 3+ days a week and A lot of the delays came with the stage checks, sometimes a few weeks of waiting.

I have been on the fence about the flight school. I like my instructor, but they charge an extra half hour instruction to whatever the hobbs is for “preflight/ post flight debrief” which seems fair to me most of the time.

It’s a small school, but the owner is the DPE and the fail rate is extremely low. When I had my ride with him it was definitely by the book, so I don’t think he’s being shady.

I mainly want to stick with them because it seems like a good place to work as a CFI. They did talk to me about my weight if I wanted to instruct there (I'm 280) and I get it, but other people/friends thought it was overstepping.

My instructor gave me a rundown of the part 61 CPL training and it seems he wants to teach maneuvers while on cross countries to a nearby airports to build time for me. But would it be better to just do xcountries on my own and then go with him for the lessons? I need about 30 hours of xcountry and overall 70 hours to cpl minimums.

>>1899857
Yeah, my grandad did the same.

he had some kind of grandfathered lease on a hangar, and he had a 182 that he (and later I ) worked on.

Eventually it all fell apart while I was away in the USAF, and he had to give up the plane and the hangar. From what I can tell it was illegal, but nobody wanted to push things.

>>1897320
90% of every airline interview I’ve had in my career has been “ok we’ve seen your logbook, we know you can fly. The next hour is just to make sure you’re cool to hang out with for a week”

Learn to be cool or you’re gonna be a CFI forever

>>1897326
See>>1899950

Airline jobs u need to be able to talk to the same person for 4 days straight. Pipeline, banner tow, scenic, all the single pilot stuff being a reclusive weirdo is fine but when it comes to the big money jobs with a flight crew you need to be able to hold a conversation or you’ll get a reputation very quickly

>>1899950
>>1899952
So you pretty much need to be a chad to get a job as an airline pilot?

>>1899956
Sorry, chinlet. It really do be that way.

>>1899952
>>1899950
What the fuck every airline interview I did was a series of interviews regarding experiences, and how you react, aptitude tests, personality tests, and shit like that.

>>1899956
Yes.

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Anyone know the requirements for flying single-engine VFR to Iceland? I see lots of comments (most recent three years old) on the internet saying you need a three hour fuel reserve, only allowed April to September (with a permit) and both the pilot and aircraft need to be IFR capable (even if planning VFR. I am IFR rated but the aircraft might not be) but I don't see anything like that in the Icelandic AIP or any official source. Pic related is supposedly a screenshot from the AIP five years ago but I can't find that in the current version.

>>1900114
Then why was I reading a thread on reddit that most pilots are introverts and airlines don’t like to hire extroverts anymore because they don’t follow procedures well and cause more accidents?

>>1900159
https://skybrary.aero/articles/north-atlantic-operations-airspace
Couple highlights:
>Over the high seas, the lower limit of all NAT oceanic control areas is FL55. There is no upper limit. Airspace at and above FL55 is Class A controlled airspace and below FL55 it is Class G uncontrolled airspace.
>All flights operating at or above FL60 must be conducted in accordance with Instrument Flight Rules (IFR), even when not operating in instrument meteorological conditions (IMC). Clearance for Visual Flight Rules (VFR) climb or descent - a climb or descent while maintaining own separation while in Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) - will not be issued.
Stay at or below 5000' MSL and you can do whatever you want.

>>1898033
as a pilot you're getting exposed to more cancerous radiation.

pick your poison I guess

what's the easiest/cheapest way to get a pilot's license in europe? maybe rellocating to the us would be preferable

>>1900298
sure but how many pilots do you know actually get cancer
compare that to even auto mechanics developing hearing problems, sicknesses, etc.

>>1899022
Thanks anon. I posted that last week. I got myself a physical copy of it since then, and it's been really helpful. I learn a lot better from hardcopy books than pdfs, or even groundschool like Kings.
>>1899033
Thanks for that "artirficial horizon is inferior to the actual horizon" phrase. I think that will actually help a lot.
>>1899203
I know that much, and that's why I'm trying to break the habit. I bred it into myself fucking around in simulators since I was a kid, because staring at instruments is easier than panning the view around. I actually explicitly make sure to NOT use the glass cockpit aircraft for my lessons. We're on old school gauges. Just, like I said, over a decade putting off lessons and screwing around in flight sim baked in some bad habits I'm looking for help breaking.

>>1900299
Maybe a decade (maybe even more) ago it would have been cheaper to go to the US and do it (the extra cost of going to and from the US, accomodation, and converting once back was still cheaper) but nowadays not so much. When I started flying 6 years ago I looked at the cost of PPL and it wasn't any cheaper to do it in the US anymore. With how prices have shot up here recently (and don't seem to as much in the US) it might again be better to do it in the US. Bear in mind as well I am in Bong land where flying is more expensive than some other places in Europe. Just total up the costs of each option and see what works out cheaper. Also consider going elsewhere in Europe to do it, Eastern Europe can do it quite cheaply and you'll still get an EASA license so no need to convert.

>>1900366
What all did you have to do to convert, bongbro? Is bongland still governed by EASA or the CAA now?

>>1900375
It's entirely CAA now (utterly stupid as there was no reason at all we had to leave EASA when we left the EU, but both sides were so petty we left EASA as well anyway). I've never had to convert (if you had a CAA issued EASA license it automatically became a CAA license) but I know from other people that converting between EASA and CAA is not a huge deal. A lot of people doing their training now are getting both CAA licenses and EASA licenses (so they can work in all of the EU and the UK) since it just means taking the skills tests twice (once for CAA and once for EASA, but the training is identical and doesn't need to be repeated) and doing two medicals each year. The worst part is needing to re-take all 14 ATPL theory exams however the syllabus is still the same so you can just take them at the same time (you can sit the EASA ATPLs in the UK still). Converting between CAA/EASA and FAA is a little more involved but not much: for PPL you need to do two theory papers (one is Air Law, idk what the other one is), do a small amount of flying training, and pass the skills test (plus medical). CPL/fATPL you need to do all 14 theory papers, some flight training, and pass the CPL and IR skills tests (plus medical).

>>1899950
Fuck is this really true? I thought aviation was a purely merit based industry and that I would never have to do ass kissing or participate in office politics again if I switched to this job. Why does everything in life have to be an extension of high school level social bullshit?

>>1900396
You have to work closely with the other pilot and you're responsible for hundreds of lives. Making sure you're not a turbo sperg is a reasonable requirement.

>>1899882
Weight can be an issue, but more importantly what type aircraft are you flying. I'd say theres zero issue if you're in a C172/PA28 or bigger. If you're doing your Commercial under Part 61 and the instructor wants a ride along, it's because the instructor wants the XC/night etc time and your money, not because there's any value in you bringing him along. I wouldn't bring him. Part 141 Commercial is an FAA scam, so definitely stick through doing it under 61. All you need an instructor for under your Commercial is the maneuvers.

>>1900162
>reddit
it's literally made up, airlines don't like weirdos

>>1900396
You serious dude? It's all about social ques and jerking off other people around you. CUSTOMER SERVICE. The reality is, if you can get on with a regional, if you make nice with the Captains (and FOs if you upgrade) they might help you advance your career when they move up to bigger and better things. This is the most important and rarely spoken aspect, it's about WHO you know, not WHAT you know. You need to be a total Chad and non-sperg on an interview, especially with a Major. You need to take classes on how to desperg yourself for your interview day. You need to at least be able to play nice through training in case you have any issues, so the instructors don't throw you under the bus. The most sure you can be to relax is after your probation is over, but you'll always have the chance that wahmen flight attendants will complain about you to HR because you're creepy!! No, cargo is not a suitable alternative just because of FAs.

>>1900409
>>reddit
>it's literally made up, airlines don't like weirdos
Par the course for plebbit

>>1900379
thanks m8. Burger here wanting to transfer eventually to UK. I'll have to look into all that.

>>1900409
This has got to be bait. You sound kind of like a retard and like you're actually still IN high school. There's no way a profession centered around a highly specialized skill of operating a $100 million piece of equipment that takes years and thousand of hours of expensive training to master is going to be determined by what some glorified waitress in the sky thinks of you. That's clown world tier logic.

>>1900415
Do you.. forget where we are?

>>1900335
Eh, soon you'll realize those "bad" habits" are great when doing IFR training.

>>1900415
Go ahead, get an airline job and tell me if anything I said wasn't true. Sorry your headcanon doesn't match reality sweetie.

>>1896924
DC3 SPOTTED

>50 landings in and I still don't know when to start the flare and how much to pitch up without either ballooning or landing hard every time
Am I just a retard or does it take everyone this long to learn how to land?

>>1900585
landing is one of those things that you never stop trying to perfect.

>>1900585
Depending on how often you fly, I'd say 100 is when you are consistently landing good. After that, windy, gusty conditions with a cross wind at or beyond the demonstrated x-wind component will you your only challenge.
>>1900632
I stopped trying because it really doesn't matter. The notion of a "perfect" landing is something that confuses student pilots. With that said, I've flown with airline pilots and high time CFIs in GA that couldn't land on center line or hit their spot.

>>1900567
Those are PT-6's which means that's a BT-67, technically

>>1898211
My dad is a Licensed aviation engineer and I just got an apprenticeship as an avionics engineer. Where I live once you're fully qualified the pay is over 100k a year depending on who you're working for. But we both are in one major airline in our country.

It's a lot of study and a lot of strange hours depending on if you work on GA or airliners but I think if it's something you want to do or think you will enjoy doing it's worth perusing anon.

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visiting from /k/. What are these guys up to?

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>>1900884
and then this guy showed up.

>>1900884
>>1900885
Either simulated contract "targets" or museum relics is my guess.

>>1900884
>>1900885
these are from Draken International, they do training with the US military

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>>1900888
checked
neat thanks, anon. two more just showed up. all flying out of NAS point mugu. v22 osprey nearby to the east too. probably out of pendelton

>>1900892
very cool

so i wound up working as a ramp agent somehow

am i welcome here?

anyone here good at the freeflights shit?

>>1900973
I've been working part time at my airport as an operations agent as well while I finish my school (posting on the shuttle to the terminal). ALWAYS plan your return 2 days before your shift, even if availabilities look great. book lodging on arrival, you probably won't get a refund if your flight ends up being full and you don't get to your destination. don't travel in the summer or during any other school breaks, especially internationally. this summer is going to be crazier than the last. just travel to where tickets are available is what I recommend. also you'll probably be at the bottom of the standby list since you're a ramper. worse if you work for a contractor (in my case)

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I've been controlling at a small local airport for about 3 years now, not too much traffic but still enough to be busy on the weekends. Mostly charter and GA. Pays like ass but it's a good side hustle. ($14k/yr atm)
I wonder if it's worth aiming for something bigger though. Of the few other controllers I talked to I mainly heard that the increase in pay really doesn't scale with the increase in workload and you end up working 8-10 hour shifts with no breaks for like $40k/yr.

>>1900997
Why not just apply when ATC is looking for people?

I'm 15 hours into flight school and I'm just about ready to give up. I just don't see how I'll ever be able to fly a plane within the constraints required to pass the checkride. It feels like every moment I'm constantly fighting the plane to try to keep it doing what I want it to do. And if I momentarily look away to focus on something else and then look back a second later, all of a sudden I'm not keeping altitude or heading anymore. Even simple maneuvers like keeping constant altitude and bank on steep turns seem impossible to me. How the fuck does anyone manage to do this well?

>>1901044
Bro use the trim wheel.

>>1901044
Fly good don't suck

>>1901048
The trim wheel doesn't magically make you keep altitude. If the slightest wind gust hits you suddenly you're 100ft higher and there's nothing you can even do to anticipate that.

>>1901044
the plane flies itself. small inputs. minor corrections. everyone gets thrown around in the wind sometimes. I got better as pilot when I started using 1 finger on the yoke.

>>1901044
Trim and keep scanning the instruments and outside.

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I don't want to go get kicked around in the winds on this coming trip....

>>1901052
>the plane flies itself
Not when you have to do a 360 degree turn holding an exact 45 degree bank angle and keeping perfectly level altitude while feeling 1.5g pushing you to the left in your seat. This is supposed to be the simplest checkride maneuver and I can't even do that. I guess some people just aren't cut out for this.

>>1901050
Pitch down for airspeed

>>1901062
29G51 here in OK right now.

>>1901044
skill issue

>>1901065
I don't have steep turns down perfectly either, but when my instructor did it he literally used no effort. It can be done. It's not something you are going to "get" right away. Aviation is most definitely a field where you suffer through days/weeks of failure only to have a eureka moment.

>>1901044
how about this: look at your attitude indicator during the turn. Focus on it. Its going to tell you your bank AND if you can keep your little white dot centered on the horizon you're good to go. That's how its done for IFR training, see if it helps you here.

>>1901062
Hmm I can’t tell if that’s a Envoy, PSA, or Piedmonster Apu

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What’s the co/n/sensus?

>>1901044
Do you have a death grip on the controls? I had that problem at first and it led to me over controlling the plane. Subconsciously you will control the plane in the direction you look, like if you look down at your map you'll slightly push the nose down resulting in a descent. Now I can do a steep turn with the elevator trim wheel and barely touch the controls once established.

>>1901107
Based but my students that have it rely on it too much

>>1901107
I like it a lot, especially for instrument approach plates. Really appreciated it after doing my instrument with paper.
>>1901131
I feel like half of my students would be fucked without foreflight and GPS.

>>1901107
I think paper charts are useless and it’s by far the best electronic flight bag

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>>1901107

I dunno. I don't use an ipad since I've never used apple products and just find android more intuitive to use. I use iFlyGPS and it has done a really good job. Doesn't have the bells and whistles ForeFlight has, but I'm a helicopter pilot and don't have the physical or mental bandwidth to be fucking around on a tablet. For navigation, it's incredible.

>>1901107
Never liked ipad or such, but the company got it instead of buying charts and shit constant, and damn it is useful.
Very nice for finding exact spots when companies provide coordinates instead of land locations.
>>1901131
This shit. Maybe this isn't applicable; mine doesn't have internet so the only way to track is with a little plug in gps thing. Go without it, and it's equivalent to paper map nav.

>>1901107
Never used it, I don't want to buy an ipad for what my phone can do on its own. Plus i have a stratux already which just werks with everything.