Is it feasible?Here's my concept>concentric roads with bike lanes and service lanes>service lanes may be used by buses, ambulances, police vehicles, fire trucks, service vehicles and couriers>NO private vehicles>bus routes each way on each circle>high speed tunnels underground cut through the city, accessible only by service lane vehicles, with exits at each circle>high speed underground metro cuts through the city north-south and east-west, with stops at each circle>inner circle is residential and commercial, outer circle is industry>citizens travel the city by bike, bus, rail or on footFind a flaw
Not really a flaw, since this is the optimal design, but cities tend to grow on a more human-ish scale, so this sort of city has to be inherently artificial or planned way ahead of time in order to ensure the land for the concentric roads is available. so the main flaw is that for the perfect circular ring road you need to build a new city from the ground up or destroy a few houses in an existing urban area. It might be better for the city to be hexagonal so that the city blocks are more easy to arrange but that’s just my autism speaking.
Oh also this sort of exists in Europe on a smaller scale, perhaps most strikingly is the bastion fort and village of Palma nova. It’s frankly beautiful but it’s a village so the infrastructure is limited to walking or road transport rather than extensive metro or rail links. However it does prove the initial concept. Personally I think it would be more ideal for a city to be made of multiple circles forming a honeycomb arrangement, with each circle representing a distinct borough or community, it would make local administration easier and could also ensure the creation of local markets or identities in an otherwise individualistic urban and metropolitan environment.
>>1874876>Curved lines = wasted space>Not inherently better than anything else, just attracts symmetry-obsessed autists>Predicated on having plenty of land to expand to in all directions>Only looks good from a plane or if you live on the ISS
>>1874876>work in the 4th circle>live in the 5th circle>need to take 3 forms of public transport to get to work each daydumb
>>1874885Or you could walk/bike it. Plenty of space between buildings or through parks!
>>1874882Maybe not in that specific example (I see cars parked on the side of the street, it's not that old) but it reminds me that all of the touristy "old towns" of Europe (Venice, Dubrovnik, etc.) that "urbanists" gush over, the permanent population in those areas are plummeting and are just a tiny part of a functional city/town around them.
curved streets will make navigation more difficult. i'd say go with the hexagon over rings, because then people can imagine in their heads which roads go to which intersections and so on. roads that curve but go back and forth (i see one in your pic) sound like even worse for navigation
>>1874876What's with the new part being build differently than the rest, are they trying to look special? I think we should beat up everyone who'd live there.
radial growth is quite common in old, natural grown cities
>>1874876>Find a flawYou don't know where people want to live, what they want to to, where they want to go.You just know what you want them to do.People think that you should fuck off and enjoy your stupid empty city.
>>1874929the discipline of urban planing DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC
>>1874879hexagonal citysounds sweet and would make alot of sense
>>1874929why would people want to live in a place with efficient transport?
>>1874876ive been thinking about this same idea ever since neom became a thingbasiclaly neom is the mathamatical worst possible shape for a city so it got me thinking on the best possible mathamatical shape for a city which is ofc a circletheres nothing at all revolutionary about this idea its been known for a long time a circle is the ideal shape and roads in a spiderweb like pattern are the most efficientthe only issue is terrain and just the randomness of real humansyoud have to plan it from the start and artificial cities always tend to not feel very nice to live in as they just feel fake and weirdanythings better than a grid like newyork though
>>1874876>NO private vehiclesSo if I want to leave the city for a place I can’t get to by plane or rail I’m just SOL then?>inb4 public transportWe’re talking about one city, you don’t get to just miracle away the entire country’s transport problems for your fantasies convenience.
>>1874936I'm not saying that urban planning is useless, I'm just saying that only mad men and communists believe they can tell how the world should be run.
>>1874972Why wouldn't people want to live next to a brothel, everyone knows that sex is amazing.
>>1875016yea, some supernatural, invisible, totally-not-human-at-all force just does everything and builds everything and no one is in charge of that or controls it all.
>>1874910That’s less of an issue with cities and more so an issue with the current worldwide financial system. Most money circulation and movement is exchanged between wealthier “safe investment” countries and if not that, in a group of “world cities” that compete to attract capital and investment. ultimately these beautiful cities are ideal for transport, living, and society, but they don’t line up with our current system of how money works. More people are willing to live a miserable life in Paris, New York, London, or Tokyo, where they will have a high salary. In contrast less people are willing to live in these beautiful cities, because that’s just not where the money is. I live in corte rn, beautiful city, walkable, a bit car dependent but still has a rail network, it stays relevant because it has a university, but if this were not the case it would probably also be experiencing major population decline. ultimately there are two possible “solutions” to this. Somehow get people with money to change the way they make their investments and purchases (cultural change within a capitalist system) or we rely on institutions and individuals from these small neglected populations to change the cities to bring them within the global market. This second possibility does have some flaws though because one rich person can just buy a whole village and make it his personal ancapistan, integrating the city to the world but stripping it of what makes it worth anything. There are probably other things that can be done but I’m too lazy to write an essay
>>1874882is that a fucking stargate?
>>1874876soulless
>>1875018You are so indoctrinated that you can't even see thet it's precisely the opposite of what you think is proven by your Logical Extreme argument.As Milton Friedman explained:"Not a single person in the world can make a pencil"https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NaTIuDnCU3k
>>1874876moscow is that but big and with carsit's awesome
>>1874876>>bus routes each way on each circleYou absolutely do not want to live on the same street as a bus route, a single bus produces an intolerable amount of noise, especially when stationary.
>>1875470I'm surrounded by bus routes and I never notice them
>>1875018Seething commie detected.
>>1875470cars cause noise, if you don't like it you better live far from any road in the middle of nowhere
>>1874876>NO private vehicles.>Citizens travel by bike.So in your personal dystopia I am bound to make use of a raggedy shared bicycle ? Luckily I am not and wont ever be a city or town dweller anyways.Also it doesnt appear you have put thought into leaving and visiting the city. Is it a prison. Or must one share the supply roads with the commercial vehicles you envision using those ?
>>1874876Fuck that we need>H E X A G O N S<
>>1875562Based hexagons are the bestagons enjoyer. let’s build a urbaniste utopia together
>>1875016>>1875543>You are so indoctrinated that you can't even see thet it's precisely the opposite of what you think is proven by your Logical Extreme argument.
>>1875494>>1875550I'm talking about bus stops that are literally right outside your door. They make more noise than the maximum amount of cars in the same section ever will.
>>1875603or maybe there are total shit busses where you live, here is a bus stop and a croosroads nearby, the noise is not from busses, but from all these idiots in cages
>>1875612Cars sound like bliss when you have buses idling and then accelerating every few minutes.If you lived in a place with public transport you'd relate to my experience instead of trying to tell me what my experience should be.
>>1875612This is the type of shit you have to deal with when a bus stop is right outside your door https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRnmuCrmZ2YImagine this but with 10x more buses when private transport is banned. You can go fuck yourself if you think this is acceptable.
>>1875562>>1875586King Camp Gillette (of razorblade fame) has your back.>https://wayback.archive-it.org/2566/20211028213212/http://urbanplanning.library.cornell.edu/DOCS/gillette.htm
>>1874876Radial planing sucks.It has bad capacity for traffic, much much less capable than grid.When city stays small radial planing can work, but what if city grows to megalopolis? It carries it's initial radial planing with it and you get "cripple" city that underperforms comparing to grid city. >my city would never grow up.Nobody knows that. Nobody who founded today's megalopolises could predict back then which town goes megalopolis size and which disappears. So don't that. Don't leave pile of turd to descendants that would drag them down forever.And to all austists who like circle shape of the city. It was fallout of barbarian past when city must be walled for defense. Obviously cirlce has minimum wall length (and cost) per walled area. Today obviously that is not an argument.
>>1874876Get from one side of the city to the other. Meet literally everyone else doing the same from any other direction in the middle.
>>1875441"People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research." - Steve Jobs, an actual master capitalist that doesn't give a fuck what autist propagandists of fanficland think.>>1874883Yeah, pretty much, it looks good on paper but can't adjust to reality.
>>1874983Parking lots outside city limits.>the entire country’s transport problemsshart
>>1875626this is not a bus, it's a piece of crap, get some new mercedes busses, problem solved https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2dg7CNXekg
>>1875593Again, commies seething.
>>1875065it's a star fortress that is easy to defend. popular during the medieval period
>>1876381no, first bastion forts had been build after the end of the middle ages, these are early modern buildings, this change became nessesary after farspread use of explosives and cannons made old medieval castles obsolete
What would /n think of this pattern?
>>1874876flaw: i cant have ready access to hobbies that utalize a vehicle
>>1874876>Find a flawPiss poor unintuitive at finding the shortest route between any two points.
Unironically would love to live in Tomorrowland.
>>1875441>>1875016>it's some trust fund lolbertpottery
>>1876457>hexagons and circlesbased Walter Burley Griffin enjoyer
>>1874879a hexagon is fine, too.
>>1874876the trick is to have 2 railways>one diametral>one spiralwith this, you can get everywhere in the city within 2 interchanges
>>1874882that's a fort at best
>>1874876>Find a flaw>concentric roadsGrids are simpler and easier, plus traffic flowing to one central point is just going to create problems. My personal favorite is the grid with street hierarchy, you can make each 1km2 grid unique while still having traffic efficiency and safety.>NO private vehiclesYeah, yeah, car hate on a car-hating board. But good luck attracting the rich, people who want their peace/privacy/space, and people who simply like cars/bikes. Better to go the Singapore way and simply reserve 25% of road capacity for cars and auction off licenses. If you don't like on-street parking or big car parks, simply ban that and provide automated underground parking. You will get both income and happy citizens who like cars/bikes.>with stops at each circleThe distance between the N/S and E/W stations will get wider as you move further from the center, another reason why grids are easier as you can easily provide multiple N/S and E/W lines and a stop every 1km or so.>inner circle is residential and commercial, outer circle is industryI thought people here hated that kind of single-zone style? I agree, it creates safety issues, over-crowding in one area and dead space in others, and it creates traffic flow problems. Better to go the current preference of mixed-use zones and also have several key centers of commerce spaced out, eg, Tokyo. (With the exception of heavy pollution businesses and sewage plants, they can stay outside the city centers.) Again, grids do this better than a radial design where all leads to one spot.
>>1874876Houses are not rounded enough. Hexagonal would work better thoughever
>>1878046>spiralHow would that work? The acceleration and curve would make the ride very uncomfortable, and, on the small scale, nearly unfeasible. It seems better to have concentric rings that can merge into smaller concentric rings closer to the center.
>>1878103same way you have circle metro lines.it doesn't have to be a perfect geometrical spiral, just the general shape
>>1876338I saw lots of boobies in the building next to the park
>>1874876>Here's my conceptLooks like you are trying to recreate Welthauptstadt Germania.>NO private vehiclesI was right.
>>1874882That's a bastion fort not a city
>>1874876>Having an intersection where more than three roads meet.NgmiWhen you have a central point in a network, traffic is always going to be a nightmare there.To connect a dense area you want a grid, not a single node where that density is concentrated. Much less one at the center of the city.Even four way intersections are bad.Go with a hexagonal grid. Ideally connector ramps if the budget allows so you can completely get rid of stop lights.With the interior section of the hexagon you could maybe get a little spicy with.Maybe your circle design could be miniaturized within a hexagon’s district.>>1875686And to all austists who like circle shape of the city. It was fallout of barbarian past when city must be walled for defense. Obviously cirlce has minimum wall length (and cost) per walled area. Today obviously that is not an argument.What’s funny is the grid was also originally also a fortification technique as well.Each street block would be a “cell” in a fortification and in times of invasion every block of buildings would be fortified into a makeshift fort, each overlooking each other.This was actually the cited principle behind the grid design of many early colonial settlements.When towns stopped being vulnerable frontier settlements, the grid design just sort of caught on and became the go-to standard anyway.
>>1874876> NO private vehiclesYou allowed for bikes, bike-based traffic (bakfiets), and other human-powered traffic (scooters). You should allow for pedelecs, and escooters also to help those who cannot use a bike or need help carrying children/lots of stuff.> Service lanes can be used by ... couriersCouriers are usually private companies, so you allow small trucks, also, or is it like an USPS monopoly? Unfortunately you have to allow for some trucks even if you ban cars.> Bus traffic primarilyEspecially in the downtown, you need higher capacity modes such as trams. If you want a zero emission utopia, use trolleybuses and trams primarily.> R+C downtownYou know what fucking high property prices will be downtown? You probably need a dedicated middle circle for residential. You also should mandate high density development, so that your city remains walkable and transit-friendly.> High speed metro lines on the spine... aaand that's where your commercial, shopping districts, hospitals, etc. are> by railWhere are your train stations? They should use the same tunnels as your metros, ideally the same tracks with 4 lane tunnels. Two outer for the rails, two inner for the metro. The trains stop at downtown, and in major suburban centers like Paris, Vienna, German cities with S-Bahn. Also they stop at industrial centers overground carrying mostly freight, bit the same lines can carry passengers. Ideally, since your trains stop at high density commercial centers anyway, you could build warehouses and a freight train stop underground next to the train stop . That's how you supply the city with 0 carbon.Also:> no fucking planes and copters> no fucking ships> anti-ballistic defenses (your downtown would be a huge target for high-yield ballistic weapons and artillery)> high density development> enough parks with biological lawn management (sheep) and pollinator-friendly plants> wetlands to drain heavy rain/snow/hurricanes
>>1881260As existing historic examples show there is either a central building or a central car free place or a park. This is an essential design feature! >>1874882>>1876338>>1877600>>1877724Cager mindset is obviously not capable to even see it.
>>1874876it called canberra
>>1875695
americans are so used to grids and car centric cities they can not even imagine something else
>>1874876> not a single tree to be seenit looks dry and disgusting desu
>>1874876>Find a flawThey've been trying this commie bullshit for over 70 yearsIt always failsAlso, you have to be 18 to post here
>>1875016
>>1888713"everything I don't like is communist" toddler mindset actually round and circular towns are peak renaissance design
>>1874885take comfort that the planner is serving in the 8th circle
>>188437183? 83 frickin easels? who the hell came up with that number? hmmm maybe i counted wrong and it was 7 x 12 = 84...
I live in a Roman made grid city, i only FUCK Roman made grid city girls and i LOVE it
>>1874876It works
>>1889670That's a photo of an old fortification, not a townCommunist urban planning is a joke
>>1892418this is a small town, you can even see the houses
>>1876457>civic centre is just filled up with car parks>central park is surrounded by an impassable roundabout ensuring that it's barely ever used or enjoyed due to poor access and pollution/noise>what could have been a dense downtown of shops, businesses, public plazas and walkable streets is actually just big roads and car parks and separate blocks of buildings all designed for you to park right outsidethey failed
>>1875016Cambridge?
>>1874876Check out CANBERRA down under
What about a grid of city block sized circles? Compared to a regular square grid of equal density it increases horizontal and vertical travelling distances by 13% but reduces diagonal travelling distances by 10%, plus the constant curvature gives more of an impression of human scale at distance compared to straight streets stretching to the horizon, and I'm gonna make the assumption that the everpresent and changing steering required from drivers will force more involvement and therefore more attention, and will enable less of a distant gaze.
>>1895496Although I gotta say that an hexagon is probably fine, too, and you can more easily overlay a finer grid of pedestrian paths on top of a larger grid of motor vehicle streets.
>>1895496Interesting, I feel like an issue would be a large amount of each block being taken up by the parallel intersections, depending on what design you use.>reduces diagonal travelling distances by 10%Not sure if I follow how that works out?
>>1874876>Find a flawThe flaw is that it's only two-dimensional
disorienting nightmare designwavey grid is the best
>>1895633Non-whites are banned so there won't be crime and you won't need guns.
>>1895971the guns have nothing to do with crime. I own guns because I don't trust the government not to attempt a holocaust. Owning guns gives politicians ptsd
>>1895975retard
>>1896053when is the last time europe has gone a decade without an attempted ethnic cleansing? When is the last time the world went 5 years without a government murdering its people?
why? this kind of over-planning is not how cities work, it's only appealing to simcity planner autism. Cities grow organically depending on the unpredictable needs of the day
>>1895496>it increases horizontal and vertical travelling distances by 13% but reduces diagonal travelling distances by 10%,that doesn't make any frikkin sense.
How about something like this?Each street is a spiral going either in a cw or ccw direction, and the blocks are cut out of their intersection.When the blocks get too small in the middle you merge them into one large block (a park perhaps, or an area where the blocks/streets are arranged differently).By varying how tight the curves are you can change how narrow or wide the blocks get as you move away from the center.
>>1874929this is how it goes every timecities and economies grow best when guided by the invisible hand of free markets
>>1895496The issue with that is to get to the interior of the circles you will need access roads.Which will could devolve into grids..
>>1898282Not if the circles are block-sized
Squares just work out so much better than everyone having weird property shapes Phoenix is laid out on a grid and it works really well
>>1874883>>1874876This is why the square grid pattern with ring roads is the superior urban form
>>1874876>Find a flawEverythingThese dogshit planned cities have been tried and failed for over 100 years
>>1874929>>1875016>>1897458>>1875748>>1888713>>1898542>>1898243>We don't need to plan or think about anything, God knows best!I hate conservatards so much
>>1898669I'm not a conservative you retard. "dude let's put things in EPIC DISTRICTS just like my SIM CITY GAMES!!!" is a completely discredited form of planningMixed-use is best, fuck zoning Pic related is an "unplanned" city
>>1874876see CANBERRA, AustraliaEwwww
>>1898669classic economics has nothing to do with godgovernments never get things right just look at all the shitty cities no one lives in in chiner It does not work
>>1874876>inner circle is residentialCongratulations on the housing crisis you created. What are they going to do when they inevitably run out of space in the center for housing?
>>1874876>>concentric roadsDoesn't work for shit
>>1898063Smaller blocks in the center may not even be a bad idea (top right is a good proportion) considering you'd want it denser, more built up and more walkable anyway. Then a medium block size residential belt, and then you can fill the huge blocks on the perimeter with warehouses and crap.
>>1898669>I hate conservatards so muchI love how people mocking your high schooler understanding of of urban planning means they are conservative and somehow god is involvedYou have to be 18 to post here, idiot
