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With the advent of the end of fossil fuels and industrial age how do you think transport will look like in the near future (next 50-100 years)?
>some data on energy
https://surplusenergyeconomics.wordpress.com/professional-area/
>some data on low tech, lots of transport related stuff
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/
>post industrial urbanism
https://wrathofgnon.substack.com/p/how-to-build-a-small-town-in-texas
>>
the rich and powerful get more wasteful
everyone else shares the burden of reduced energy consumption to varying degrees depending on their station
everyone blames capitalism even though the system becomes less and less capitalist the more this disparity grows

none of your public transport fantasies occur. you ride private collectivos and cramped old shitty buses held together by duct tape on crumbling road infrastructure held over from the era of mass automotovie transit because your broke municality cant afford better. if you don't have light rail or a metro now, you ain't getting one. that money is going to a new private jet terminal at your local airport. and cycling to work? most workplaces will be further and further out in the sticks for the cheap real estate.
>>
>>1844202
>it's not capitalism's fault guys even though growing disparity is literally the epitome of capitalism
The only way to become less capitalist is to put the heads of the rich and powerful on stakes again. Period.
>>
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>>1844197
>how do you think transport will look like in the near future (next 50-100 years)?

After the collapse the civilized world the only remaining vehicles on the road will be pic related

Public transportation mothballed and not running

Electric nothing will exist when the batteries are flat after a decade or you fragile Tesla sensed the satellite isn't connected and refused to start

I guess you could mountain bike through the ruins of San Francisco, that would be kinda fun
>>
They already told us, we’ll own nothing, eat the bugs, live in the pods, have no privacy, and be happy
>>
>>1844197
>With the advent of the end
I only reply to OPs who have passed 6th grade english
>>
>>1844209
boy, their businesses have all failed twice in the last fifteen years but your precious govt has bailed them out. this ain't capitalism, its a planned economy under a different name.
>>
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>>1844197
in 50 years things will move towards less car ownership but not by much. People might choose to drive less as ebikes and other pevs become more common. There will be more bike infrastructure but urban sprawl can't be undone unless you bulldoze everything and in that case public transportation will still have all it's drawbacks that make it unpopular now.
>>
>>1844226
>>
>>1844216
That's already happening under the current fossil fuel-capitalist system though
At least you actually own your bicycle, most people who "own" their cars are actually just renting it from the bank
>>
>>1844270
bruh
If the industry really collapse and production volumes plummet, bicycles will be so scarce that only the wealthiest bourgeoisie will be able to purchase one; the motor car will be a thing only for the rich and the doctors as it was at the start of the 1900s
>>
>>1844197
>With the advent of the end of fossil fuels and industrial age how do you think transport will look like in the near future (next 50-100 years)?

Nothing will change, cars will just get more unaffordable. There will be no green revolution that replaces ICE cars with EVs. The rich will drive around in EVs and everyone else will walk/bike/take transit on the same infrastructure that exists today with only minor improvements. Copelets will talk about how increased cost of living is actually a good thing if it reduces the number of vehicles on the road, even if it reduces quality of life as a whole.

>Wealth inequality will increase until we reach a point where you will have to finance a bicycle for commuting to work, just like how most people have to finance their cars.
>Owning your own bike will end up being a symbol of relative affluence, or of being a cycling enthusiast. Normies will rent their goybikes/PEVs to commute.
>Property crime will continue to increase in liberal strongholds with soft on crime prosecutors. Police will continue to treat bike/PEV theft as non-crime.
>Pay $100/day for a bike locker to keep your bike secure while you're at work
>Bike/PEV manufacturers will add anti-theft features like locking hubs/heads to make people feel more secure, and they'll lock your bike up on you if you try to resell it without going through a dealer network.
>Bike manufacturers will move to different wheel sizes or hub types so they can charge a premium to people riding older bikes for new wheels and tires.
>Government will mandate registration/licenses/insurance/safety equipment for bikes and PEVs so they can get their pound of flesh out of you. They'll put 90% of their effort into ticketing people that don't follow these rules and 10% of their effort into policing actual crime

All of the gay shit that happened to cars will end up happening to bicycles. There is no golden future.
>>
>>1844289
>>Wealth inequality will increase until we reach a point where you will have to finance a bicycle for commuting to work, just like how most people have to finance their cars.
Considering you can get a pretty good new bike for $700 dollars or a relatively high spec pev for $2000 I would say that there wouldn't even be a society if it got to that point
>>
>>1844307

People already finance furniture, home electronics and so on. I'm sure there are plenty of people that already finance bikes.

>buy a bike by any means necessary or get mugged riding the rolling homeless shelter

Not at all far to go.
>>
>>1844332
That's just bad financial decisions. They don't do it because they need to
>>
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>>1844333

Cars and homes were one affordable for everyone too.
>>
they will keep car ownership because its such a nice debt prison that it more than pays for itself in the amount of control it keeps over people. you put something like new car ownership (or what will more likely be eternal leasing, the worst of all financial moves) firmly out of reach and people might actually have the money to make better financial bets that get them out of wageslavery.
>>
>>1844339
They still are if you actually work a decent job and don't do a stupid college major
>>
>>1844353
and dont do absolutely retarded things like finance a car.

even on a very modest fifty grand a year (the bare minimum for anyone who is slightly skilled) you can save up enough to buy a house outright in ten years or less.
>>
>>1844226
>KBB and autotrader funded study
oh yes, this will be good.
>>
>>1844357
>in some shitty suburban rust belt town noone wants to live
added that part you missed.
>>
>>1844363
so what? its equity. you be minimally intelligent about it and you sell that house for a big gain five years down the road and live somewhere nicer.
>>
>>1844373
why are people so obsessed with gaming their finances and minmaxing ?

5 fucking years of your life in some shithole is hardly a no brainer even if 'financially' makes sense

not saying I wouldn't live somewhere rural because I would but I can see why someone might not want to.
>>
>>1844361
show mw study that says otherwise
>>
>>1844378
its not gaming, you just have to work your way up. five years is fucking nothing, and it doesn't need to be a rural area either. you can find $300k homes in all but a select few markets.
>>
>>1844226
This image is stupid.
The survey happened 6 years ago so it was surveying people 4-21 years old.
It's literally just kids giving uninformed opinions that fall in line with American car dependency. Kids think they have to have a car so 92% plan to have a car.
The fact that 8% of them even know about ride sharing is impressive to me. Let alone that they think it should replace car ownership.
Every other question is stupid. Total "who gives a shit" questions where they draw weird conclusion based on wishy washy opinions.
>is safety important or is infotainment important
Jesus what a dumb question.
>>
>>1844411
again I'm open to better studies
>>
>>1844413
I'm not. I'll start caring about gen-z's opinions in 10 years. When they've lived a little and their opinions are based on actual life experience.
>>
>>1844226
>research from Autotrader and Kelley Blue Book

>Gen Z wants to OWN and DRIVE CARS

lol

>New research from Häagen-Dazs
>Zoomers want to eat Ice Cream
>>
>>1844422
Wtf are those bars doing
>>
>>1844224
2big2fail
>>
>>1844226
When the oil lobby is sending their shills they are not sending their best.
>>
>>1844361
>>1844411
>>1844422
>>1845352

Ass blasted boomers can't do anything but complain
>>
I think housing will be a bit denser than the suburban sprawl the boomers built, and cities will be continually investing in bike lanes and rail.
USA for sure needs a high-speed rail network, our infrastructure is third world.
>>
I definitely think mopeds, scooters, golf carts, e-bikes, and other things "between a bike and a car" will get more popular here.

The cost of a car is fucking ridiculous the last few years.
>>
>>1844224
>Capitalism controls the government so it's le not real capitalism
>>
>>1844197
>end of fossil fuels and industrial age
>transport will look like in the near future
Here's your deindustrialized car free transportation, enjoy.
>>
>>1844361
>>1844411
>>1844422
>>1845352
>/n/iggers SEETHING as usual
Too bad you deranged retards don't realize normal people want the freedom and independence that owning a car provides.
>>
>>1845404
disagree. I have a bike and a car and there is absolutely no reason for me to get a scooter now. They can't carry more cargo than a bike, and they're too slow to go long distances. They exist for italian teenagers and people who live in traffic ridden shitholes like Bangkok or something
>>
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>>1845482
What about the freedom to use something other than a car? I feel like a second class citizen if I want to bike anywhere.
>but zoomers want cars
Because we built literally everything around car traffic.
People think their car gives them freedom because they live in a nightmare hellscape where it's the only way to get anywhere.
Freedom would be the ability to choose how you want to go places.
>>
>>1845488
Try moving stuff with a bike or taking your gf somewhere. It's just something that's not going to happen without a car, that's the freedom.
Many other use cases apply too where a car is vastly superior.
>>
>>1845493
My gf rides her Felt or her Specialized when we go somewhere on bikes…
>>
>>1845496
Go longer distance and try moving stuff. Car simply offers unmatched freedom and independence.
>>
>>1845493
>Try moving stuff
There's lots of stuff you can move on a bike or a cargo bike, but sure, some stuff requires a car. And by all means, use a car if you need to.
But here's the thing, most of the time you're not hauling big stuff around. You're going to work, buying groceries, or going to a restaurant. I can do that stuff on a bike.
So why can't I ride a bike most of the time and only use the car when I need it? I have both.
>taking your gf somewhere
Have you considered 2 bikes? Going on a bike ride with your gf sounds kind of romantic actually.
>>
>>1845499
I also have both but I will never give my car away.
A weeks groceries on a bike is just silly and visiting parents or friends on a bike is too bothersome as well.
Dedicated bike trip is something entirely different and not done for mobility but for leisure.
>>
>>1845501
I get a week's groceries on a bike all the time. I'm only shopping for myself, but I'm not even maxing out my bike's carrying capacity.
And again, how often are you doing these weird one-off trips like visiting parents?
If you need a car to visit your parents then go ahead, but the bulk of traffic is not people driving to see their parents.
>>
>>1845505
Parents and friends I said. Also sometimes driving for hiking day drips. Nothing you do on a bike.
To go to work I use whatever.
>>
>>1845499
>I can do that stuff on a bike.
you'll be walking home afterwards when it's stolen lmao
>Going on a bike ride with your gf sounds kind of romantic actually.
unless she has an ebike or you can sandbag hard without getting pissed, it's awful. and jesus fuck women have to stop to go potty every half fucking hour I swear
>>1844197
when fossil fuels go away, modern civilization goes away. nothing can be built or maintained without them. that includes bicycles. using fossil fuels to power massively inefficient personal transportation devices is fucking retarded but that genie isn't going back in the bottle, no matter how much governments try to force it
>>1844389
houses as investments with decent ROI is only a very recent thing, fueled by governments printing money, giving it to investment banks who sock it away into real estate, strangle inventory so that prices go up, and sell securities based on line going up, derivatives based on those securities, and derivatives based on those derivatives ad infinitum. it's unsustainable and will fail soon, even worse than it did in 2008. of course even then there will still be retards who won't let go of their euphoria about funding their life with real estate gainz
>>
>>1845498
We both have cars. I do weekly shops by bike. Presumably your microwave meals don’t fit but fruit, veg and meat definitely does.
>>
>>1845513
Microwave meals are easy to transport by bike.
The hard one is full sized pizzas. There are options to transport those, but I just don't bother.
>>
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>>1845509
Aside from the "moving big stuff" example, all this stuff is possible with a good transit system.
Europeans would scoff at your need to use a car to visit friends and family. "Just take the train." they would say.
You keep talking about freedom, but really we're the least free of all. Because we have 1 option while everyone else has many. Including cars by the way.
>>
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>>1845519
you're fucking delusional about how europeans get places
>>
>>1845519
That's not really true. Europeans are pretty interested in cars. They've even attempted to make a few and I'm told that some of them are actually pretty good.
>>
>>1845513
More like beverages and shit. Small stuff I get by foot from market 5 mins down the street. I'd never use the car for a 5 minute walk unless I'm already driving.

>>1845519
Jokes on you, I'm German and car is significantly faster and more convenient. Train is only useful for long distance between big cities.
My home town is a 45 min drive door to door but over 2 hours with public. Fuck that shit.
>>
>>1845493
>>1845498
>>1845525
>>1845547
>Dude you just don't get it. People sometimes have to carry more than a briefcase's weight of stuff and need to go travel somewhere far so it makes perfect sense that everything is built around these use cases, all the time
>t. Retard

>>1845510
>when fossil fuels go away, modern civilization goes away
>using fossil fuels to power massively inefficient personal transportation devices is fucking retarded
>so let's just continue being this fucking wasteful with this limited resource
>t. Doomer pussy
>>
>>1845498
>>1845525

>People having choices make me confused, scared and angry
>I'm gonna conflate providing other options with infringement on freedom
>I take this dominant and subsidized mode of transport for granted so any policy looking to tax it closer to market-rate seems like an unjust attack

You're all fucking retarded.
Cry more about gas prices on /o/.
>>
>>1844226
>urban sprawl can't be undone
Why?
we’ve already seen in de-industrialized rust belt cities have houses being left to rot until they have to be bulldozed. Leaving many lots and even blocks empty. Either to me mowed or returned to nature. That’s one way it could go away.
Another would be through the redevelopment of some into higher density urban environments.
and a third could be via the transformation of suburban lots into small homesteads. Which wouldn’t be to unusual, many people before ww2 in the us had gardens and raised things like chickens even in urban environments. Chicago at one point was a net exporter of food you know. having our infrastructure be no longer centralized around cars would just be returning to how all urban areas were before the suburban experiment.
>>
>>1845551
>The cagie shrieks in fear when feeling threatened
>>
>>1845557
Give him some space to calm down.
Deep breaths, go look at some pictures of strip malls.
>>
>>1845550
Lol okay then make transit tickets cost market rate. I wouldn’t consider transit subsidized even, it’s got the financial equivalent of an iron lung.
>>
>>1845550
Also having other options forced on you is a violation of freedom. You would see a highway getting built through your neighborhood and you being forced to pay for it as a violation, so it’s the same for light rail.
>>
And when you look at the numbers… transit is a pretty raw deal, and super fucking expensive.

In 2019, the whole of US government spent 155 billion on roads. Roads that carry 95% of commuters, 100% of goods and services, touch every single piece of property in the country, used by police, fire department, construction crews, buses, etc. etc.

So what about transit? In 2019 US government spent 80 billion on transit. Something that only exists in a couple cities, only serves commuters, not industry, and less than 5% US commuters.
>>
>>1845572
Fair point. Eminent domain sucks.

>>1845569
My point wasn't so much about subsidies as much as it was about the ignorance and dismissal of it happening at all. And while trucks deliver goods to my city, most of motor-traffic space (not so much cost, roads are expensive because of trucks) is allocated to extend capacity for private vehicles.

>>1845575
>the whole of US government spent 155 billion on roads
And collected about 52 billion in gas taxes. Including some other sources would cover the cost of roads by roughly half.
I'm seeing different numbers all over the place but let's not nitpick.
It's worth noting that this does not include externalities caused by car-only infrastructure, such as increased cost of healthcare, future cost of their climate impact etc.

>80 billion on transit
I'm curious about that number.
Are you sure it doesn't lump in airline subsidies, freight rail, maritime freight, something else irrelevant to this conversation?
>>
>>1845577
Gas taxes and car registration aren’t the only way roads pay for themselves, also in sales tax, and the way they support the economy as a whole by carrying all goods and services, raw materials, etc. etc.

79 billion? Believe it brother.

>In 2019, spending on public transportation totaled $79 billion, of which $54 billion was for operations and $24 billion was for purchases of capital and equipment.4 Transit agencies rely on both government support and their own revenues. About two-thirds of the income of transit agencies comes from government: States and localities supply more than three-quarters of that share, and the federal government provides the remainder. Transit agencies’ revenues, which include operating receipts, such as passenger fares, along with the taxes and tolls that some transit agencies collect, account for the rest of agencies’ income

Don’t forget that transit agencies got another 80 billion in one-time payments because of covid too. What’s crazy about that is that transit agencies say fares make up 1/3 of transit’s cost, which is equal to what gas taxes alone make up in comparison the the costs of highways. Add in all of the other economic benefits of highways and they actually provide way more value than transit.
>>
>>1845585
Look man, I just want to commute to college and my workplace on my bicycle and foot safely and with a crumb of dignity.
I'm just mad my city caters more to suburboid leeches than it's own residents.
I really couldn't be bothered tp argue more about economics when it's a bit more personal for me. A tram, bus or cyclist never put me or my family in a hospital or woke me up at 2am to have fun.
>>
>The Highway Trust Fund (HTF) is an accounting mechanism in the federal budget that comprises two separate accounts, one for highways and one for mass transit. The trust fund records revenues collected through excise taxes on the sale of motor fuels, trucks and trailers, and truck tires; taxes on the use of certain kinds of vehicles; and interest credited to the fund. Typically, about 80 percent of revenues in the HTF are allocated to highway programs, and 20 percent are allocated to mass transit.

Transit is literally funded by roads lmao
>>
>>1845599
And roads are literally funded by non-user tax revenue.
>>
>>1845601
Like transit
>>
>>1845622
Not quoting who your post is aimed at is seethe as fuck right now.
>>
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>>1845629
Can't address the homosexual liquid shit slurpers now can I, smartass?
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>>1844210
You know mountain bikes exist, right? After collapse you won't be fueling that monster up ever again.
>>
>>1845657
It's a diesel
Diesels can be adapted to run on any flammable liquid
Yes
Even mayonnaise
>>
>>1845659
You aren't gonna be making mayo after collapse. Can it run on boiled potatoes?
>>
>>1845668
Thats a standard gasoline engine. It can run on ethanol with minor adjustments.
>>
>>1845659
any oil with a low enough flash point*
>>
>>1845547
I choose to live somewhere that requires a car. Therefore nobody should have any other option besides driving.
>>
>>1845915
Who are you quoting, /n/igger?
>>
>>1845555
because we already have a housing shortage. It's one things to bulldoze suburbs that have rotted away but you simply can't just bulldoze all of Florida or California.
>inb4 nothing of value was lost
Even if that was generally desired by the public it would take over 100 years for the process to occur. So it's not impossible but it's not going to happen in your lifetime
>>
>>1845482
Nobody said you're not allowed to own a car. I think moving a 4000 pound vehicle to go 1 mile is stupid and I don't want to do it
>>
>>1845955
You just have to convert parking lots in the city into apartment buildings. This lowers housing prices while also making commuter parking less available. This moves suburban commuters into the city and opens up that suburban land for redevelopment
>>
>>1846253
apartments are more expensive. Can you give an actual example of this? Like what Wal mart parking lot do you want to live in?
>>
>>1844209
Soviet peasants had to walk or transit everywhere from their shitty apartment.

The political ruling class had cars, limos, police escort, and private air travel. Ti and from their houses.

You'll eat the bug bar walking to work. While AOC takes an armored Suv convoy to a French steakhouse.
>>
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>>1846260
>apartments are more expensive
More expensive than what? Parking lots? You'd be wrong there since the city pays for parking lots, but apartment buildings actually generate new tax revenue. Or do you mean more expensive than houses? You'd be wrong there too. A house built on the same land is always going to be more expensive per resident.
>Can you give an actual example of this?
Alright, here's a random ass parking lot I found in Kansas City. Convert that whole thing into midrise apartments with street level shops. It will hold more people than the parking lot and create new jobs in the urban center.
>>
parking lots need to be preserved to protect the real estate from gharish modern development. also to make broke redditors and other lefty faggots seethe. ban cars i dont give a shit, but keep the parking lots until we live in better times.
>>
>>1846406
>A house built on the same land is always going to be more expensive per resident.
Not really because the land value just goes up. Apartments in NY are like $3500. Same money could get you a 4 bedroom house in the outskirts of Denver.
>Convert that whole thing into midrise apartments with street level shops.
Don't you think you need to provide some actual alternatives to cars before you destroy all the parking lots
>>
>>1846413
It's not going to make nearly as much money as an apartment would. And the people working in the nearby businesses could just live in the apartments. Or if they're so attached to their suburban homes they can find other arrangements. Parking further away, a transit route that takes them into the city, etc. Quit coddling suburban commuters trying to game the system.


>>1846425
>Same money could get you a 4 bedroom house in the outskirts of Denver.
ON THE SAME LAND
It's cheating to compare NYC to the outskirts of Denver. Supply and demand are different.
>Don't you think you need to provide some actual alternatives to cars
The apartment IS the alternative to a car. Because it's located where the parking lot was. And it's in the dense city center where transit and pedestrian options should be easier.
>>
>>1844389
>five years is fucking nothing
Living half a year in a shithole feels like an eternity. Five years in a shithole would be insane. Five years of wanting to die every day isn't worth anything.
>>
>>1844197
Over the long haul it’s going to be a bunch of electric self driving cars that all communicate with eachother and drive as efficiently as possible. At least in America. But no one is going to revert to any sort of public transportation now that everyone has their own car. Even if you invested billions into a super efficient eco-friendly train system or busses or whatever, they will eventually get graffiti’d and shit upon and whatnot because americans don’t have a sense of cleanliness—and public transport is already seen as poor and lame whereas owning a car represents freedom
For this same reason (assuming self driving cars ARE the future) there will be a very painful teething period where a) the software will still be causing crashes, but also b) hard headed people who will refuse to use auto pilot and who will opt to drive themselves, and they will be going 20 mph under the limit/swerving into every lane they can and fucking over all the self driving cars who want to go 100mph and get to destinations quickly
>>
>>1846429
>ON THE SAME LAND
If New York was bulldozed and replaced by suburbs the land value would crash that's what you're not understanding. If they urbanized my area I would just have to spend more money for less space. People are leaving New York because it's too expensive to live there. That's why people like suburbs. Why would I want to live in some cramped rat hole when I could just move somewhere significantly more affordable? Even if the cost of a car equals out or even exceeds the cost of apartment living I'm still getting a better quality of life for the money. That's why I think the suburbs are invincible. It's just a better way to live in the US
>>
>>1846516
>That's why people like suburbs
Supply and demand. Suburbs cost less because people like them less.
>>
>>1846547
price doesn't change based on like
>>
>>1846547
It’s really more due to the amount you make. Areas with massively high paying jobs are going to have more expensive housing that areas without massively high paying jobs, and suburbs will never have massively high paying jobs nearby.
>>
>>1846558
Supply and demand. Suburbs cost less because people demand them less.
>>1846561
Correct. And part of the reason people demand that housing is because they want to have those jobs. So, it's a cycle.
>>
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>>1846580
>Suburbs cost less because people demand them less.
Incorrect
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>>1846587
uh... how does pic related invalidate supply and demand..? are you by chance retarded, anon?
>>
>>1846516
you’re a dumbass lmao. Look at that stupid saudi arabia line concept. Someone whipped up a concept of a line city in NYC with the rest of the island returning to wildlife, and one of the first/biggest arguments made against it was the fact that all of that empty land would INSTANTLY become prime real estate with even more overvalued price. You can’t just turn NYC into a “suburb” at the wave of a hand. A suburb is, intrinsically, buildings outside of the city aka prime real estate whereas the suburbs are just cheap land developed with the intent of lower cost BECAUSE of intrinsic low demand. Were you asleep during junior achievement in elementary school?
>>
>>1844197
Banning cars isn't an option. Making cities more accessible is the best choice, and what we should encourage. Once you stop seething over cars, and petition for mixed use roadways for pedestrian and vehicle use, change will happen. Maybe some roads will become pedestrian only, but only in touristy or historic areas. Bike lanes are being installed everywhere it seems, and the difference between lanes in 1990 and today are staggering, as they didn't really exist in 1990. Change is happening, but it's slow. /n/iggers need to realize this, that cities are adapting, but it won't be your retarded fantasies of bikes only and tangles of trolley bus cables overhead.
>>
>>1846600
It doesn't it proves that demand isn't low
>>1846608
You don't get it. It's a hypothetical. You don't need a major city center to have suburbs. Look at South Florida.
>>
>>1846516
I don't want to bulldoze NY for suburbs. Where the hell did you get that idea? I want to further urbanize cities by replacing suburb-focused infrastructure with housing. That will bring down cost of living in the city and people won't be forced into the suburbs.

>>1846517
You WILL live in the suburb and WILL drive the wagecage 2 hours to work. You will NOT choose to live in the city.
You're perfectly free to live and work in the suburbs if you want. But city people don't have that option because people like you keep preventing the construction of new housing so you can drive in every day.
>>
>>1846617
again it's a hypothetical like seriously what is wrong with you guys?
>>
>>1846614
I get it and my point is that a cookie cutter neighborhood that you label the suburbs can still skyrocket in price if demand is high
>>
>>1844197
How can it not be a dystopian hellscape?
>Fundamentally, electric cars can't both be cheap and good.
The wealthy will have it better than ever. Autopiloted jumbo quadrotors are the flying cars of science fiction.
The middle class will have been decimated by AI and automation. Whomever is left will struggle to pay to charge decade(s) old Teslas in retail shopping center parking lots for more money than would ever have been spent on gas.
Because it's impossible to come up with a charging solution for a renter.
The working class will be concentrated along overcrowded and underfunded public transit lines.

>>1844226
Consider Detroit's response to urban sprawl.

But we only have 10 years of lithium left. We might actually have to go back to internal combustion engines. If I haven't sucked off a shotgun by that point, I'd probably just laugh until I have a stroke. And after, if I'm lucky.
>>
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>>1846617
>drive the wagecage 2 hours to work.
Fake statement
Opinion discarded.
Why do liberals have no arguments besides blatant lies?
>>
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>>1846711
>The working class will be concentrated along overcrowded and underfunded public transit lines.
Duude, public transit is not efficient.
Pods for workers installed near workplace is the peak social design.
Walkability yes!
>>
>>1846711
you're too much of a doomer anon. Solid state batteries will arrive as soon as 2025 with Toyotas hybrids. In general shit times are always followed by good times. Study history
>>
>>1846753
This is a lie, they are one in the same. The “normal” liberals you talk about who still drive are also actively complaining about no one else using public transportation.
>>
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>>1844197
My city just opened it's first bus/bike exclusive lane and cagers are going insane with rage.
>>
>>1844197
that's such a comfy png, I want to live in that city
>>
>>1846891
all these do is add to traffic problems and cause an eye sore
>>
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>>1846895
not to mention the fully separated lanes blocks cyclists avenues of escape when the absent minded cager eventually does this
>>
>>1846900
yeah as much as I hate these lanes, I will agree that drivers can and do go full retard and do shit like this. My complaint is mainly just based off of aesthetics. I used to cycle so I know how annoying it can be do try and get anywhere safely on a bike—but it’s a problem with the city itself. Adding bike lanes is ugly and doesn’t help with transit or make a city any more “walkable”.
And whether you’re driving or planning a city, you must always assume drivers are fucking stupid.
>>
>>1846902
>you must always assume drivers are fucking stupid
drivers ARE fucking stupid, lack of exercise reduces blood flow optimization to the brain.
>>
>>1846895
>>1846900
>>1846902
Well I was talking more about the benefits for the people who use the bus, the secretary of transit recently gave an interview and gave these stats: in my city 65% of transportation is via public transport, 30% is private vehicles, the rest is a mix of bikes, taxis, etc. From those 30% private vehicles; 80% are women driving (at least 1/3 of those are suburban vehicles); from those, 70% are a single passenger.
>>
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>>1844202
This probably. We will look like 80s China, with the little fuel we manage to produce (hydrogen? synthetic diesel?) going to ships, trains, lorries, and buses. Everyone else will be riding bikes. The only /n/ fantasy that will come true is that suburbs will die, giving you a hard choice between living as a farmer in some rural shithole, or living as a rat in commieblock dystopia.
>>1844209
>replace bad guys with other bad guys
>>1844353
The "unskilled" need homes too. Point me to a time in history before 1950 in any culture when a guard/steward/security couldn't own a house and raise a family in the city he works in.
>>
>>1845657
I literally mentioned your toy bicycle already

And yes you could be fuelling up a flexible diesel like the truck I mentioned.

It could run on many home made fuels
>>
>>1847122
So just don't live in the city. You also need to remember that we allowed women to work which doubled the amount of workers while the economy grew normally. The game has changed adapt or die
>>
>>1846711
>But we only have 10 years of lithium left.
False. That might be the total quantity of known deposits, but more deposits will be found.
>>
>>1847113
where the hell are you living where most people are already taking public transport, and most people driving are women?? Are these typical stats for any given city?
>>
>>1846893
I just came back from south Netherlands near the german border. It looks really like that minus the elevated railway (its just standard since there is shitton of countryside).

Anyway I still see plenty cars in the morning commute even if many of them were teslas and electric ones.
>>
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>>1845482
>Teenagers spent their lives unable to do anything away from home by themselves
>Need to visit a friend? Need to get a car ride. Need to go to football practice? Need to get a car ride. Need to buy a shitty burger? Need to get a car ride.
>"The only possible reason these people want a car is because cars are so great!"
The only thing that proves is that when you make something a requirement, people want to get it so they can actually live their damn life.
>>
>>1844226
>bulldoze everything
Which goes back to the problem of energy being required for both demolition and construction.
>>
>>1845905
I replace you flash point with more compression
>>
>>1847539
>everything requires energy
very astute
>>
>>1847550
its the heat from rapid compression that self ignites the fuel, not the compression itself
>>
>>1847642
And if you compress more in the same time span...
Guess what happens.
>>
>>1847646
your engine explodes
>>
Gas will always be getting more expensive for average Americans so they will continually invest in non-car modes of transportation. As they invest in these transportation more, they will vote to support infrastructure for that transport more.
Any government investing in new highways right now is wasting money.
>>
>>1847438
I just rode my bike to my friends houses because I live in a city and it's not impossible.
>>
>>1844197
moonshine and organized crime
>>
>>1849179
That's already a thing for half of Europe. Need some fresher pastimes, anon.
>>
>>1849229
Nothing new under the sun. Not even trannies and homos.
>>
I mean, building all your infrastructure exclusively for cars is a stupid idea, and we’ve known that for a while, so this will just speed up infrastructure improvements.
>>
Daily reminder that fossil fuels will become a renewable energy source after the Sabatier process becomes commonly used.
>>
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where can i move in america thats walkable, has good air quality, and i wont get killed walking/biking to the grocery store?
i currently live in evansville IN, which fits none of these
hard mode: i still want to own a house, current income 100k remote
>>
>>1849527
Seems like a comfy small town somewhere would be better than a big city.
>>
>>1849528
agreed
theyre hard to find because you never hear about them, and few people have lived there to tell you about life there
>>
Cage rage is funny. People seethe at you for being able to skirt traffic laws and i always ensure to ride at 5pm to push as many crosswalk buttons as I can to make sure wagies are more time coming home late to work.
>>
>>1849528
they exist but the grocery store you get is not gonna be great and you'll have like, maybe 3 restauraunts to go to. if that's what you want in life it can work.
>>
>>1849527
Try a midsized city with some good urban infill development.
Downtown Nashville, Charlotte, Raleigh etc.
>>
>>1849719
anon those dont have good air or low crime
>>
>>1849720
Yeah they do, Raleigh’s one of the safest cities in the country.
>>
>>1844224
It's called neoliberalism yes, capitalism is when there is a private ownership of the means of production for profit. It's just not laisser-faire capitalism. This isn't /pol/, but in my opinion laissez-faire or liberal capitalism will decay into neoliberal economies that socialize the losses and privatize the profits
>>
>>1846400
Yeah, it was state capitalism
>>
>>1845404
Yeah scooters could replace a shitton of car trips and would cause a shitton less traffic.
The only reason they’re not more popular currently is because in America people are afraid of getting hit by alll the giant SUVs.
>>
>haha look mom I'm owning the cyclists
>can I use the car now pls
>>
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>>1849874
Unfortunately americans are retarded and view everything in all or nothing terms.
So unless you can carry a couch on a scooter they will insist that cars must be used for everything.
>>
>>1849527
Just leave. If it's remote you can do it from overseas.
>>
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>>1844197
There is no 'climate change' and the 'war' in Ukraine is just another shit show by the NWO with the same goal.

There won't be any transport in the NWO.
You're supposed to stay in your '15-minute-zone' of your designated smart city. You won't be able to leave it anyway. Pic related will bring you to your bug pellet dispenser and back.
>>
>>1849376
Right, and any "post-fossil fuel" world will mean "public transportation for everyone" retards think it is. In addition to other types of transportation needing oil somehow, someway, it's so much more than just transportation, though. A huge amount of plastics and everyday chemicals use oil byproducts, and the agriculture industry will suffer as well, meaning that there's not enough food that can be produced.

Even if you don't drive a car, rising fuel prices NOW are going to affect you. Germany basically gave up its domestic fossil fuel production and all of Europe is going to get fucked hard when winter comes.
>>
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>>1844197
>reddit frog
Opinion disregarded, kill yourself
>>
>>1845482
Dumbass Edward Bernays corrupted nigger
>>
>>1849580
Holy fucking based. I did that once and some fat boomer threw water at me from their window though lol
>>
>>1849580
>i always ensure to ride at 5pm to push as many crosswalk buttons as I can
based
I sometimes wonder how much you could disrupt traffic just by walking back and forth across an intersection all day.
I'm sure they'd find some way to arrest you for it though.
>>
>>1850026
it's so easy to turn this retard argument on it's head, owning a car for most americans is a way to get to the closest corporate owned goy slop spot to get horrible food or a grocery store to get more shitty low quality food.
>>
>>1850026
It must be hard work convincing yourself that nothing is real
>>
Cities will expand their bike and transit infrastructure, but cities were already doing that before the Ukraine war.
>>
>>1845419
Yes that's literally true. You think every government is capitalist because the rich people control it? Capitalism happens when rich people DON'T control the government.
>>
>>1850151
cars allow access to a larger selection of warehouses and specialty shops

suck off bezos some more
>>
>>1849527
Bangor, Maine.
>>
Cars are
>pays off loan
truly a staple
>pays for gas
of American
>pays for insurance
freedom which
>pays for registration
we as a nation
>pays for inspection
hold so dear
>pays for oil change
we need to
>pays for repairs
keep these
>pays for parking
magnificent machines
>pays road maintenance tax
in use for
>pays taxes for a new parking lot
all time
>>
>>1851344

Most of those are Taxes. When cars are banned the gov are going to need to fill the gap in tax revenue somehow , enjoy paying 300% VAT for new inner tubes lol
>>
>>1852020
The taxes are there to pay for the roads though.

State and local taxes go way down when the government isn't maintaining thousands of miles of extra asphalt to serve the suburbs.
>>
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>>1852023
This.
https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Who-Pays-for-Roads-vUS.pdf
https://www.heise.de/news/Studie-Strassenverkehr-deckt-Kostenbedarf-nur-zu-36-Prozent-6196574.html
>>
>>1852020
>fill the gaps left by eliminating a subsidy
American education at work
>>
>>1852024
Why does this not include gas tax?
If you want to go further include the sales and income tax generated by the commerce that happens via roads.
And roads are still going be a thing without cars, most of that money will still be spent
>>
>>1852029
Suburbs require way more road per person than denser forms of development.

The guy who bikes a mile to work is costing the taxpayer way less than a guy who drives twenty miles.
>>
>>1852029
Gas tax IS user tax.
>sales and income tax generated by the commerce that happens via roads
False premise. By subsidizing hauling and trucking you essentially pass their cost to all taxpayers, instead of the consumer of their services.
Trucks do a majority of damage to roads, but pay disproportionally less in user fees and taxes.
That means their customer doesn't pay for the full cost of shipping, all taxpayers do.
>>
We’ve seen a lot of major American cities reduce street space/funding for cars (a trend that always seems to be picking up).
But I think in the future you’ll start seeing suburbs follow suit. Not every suburb, but the ones that have fiscal problems from all the suburban sprawl and they need a way to stay afloat.
>>
>>1852031
Suburban road development is generally handled by the Municipality or County rather than the State or Fed , people make the voluntary choice by choosing to live in a suburb that they want to fund suburban roads.
>>
>>1852036
Nobody is denying that, the post that started this reply chain is explicitly saying it.

Of course, zoning is decided by municipal elections where only like 20% of the population votes, and those 20% impose SFR zoning on everyone else, to the detriment of pretty much anyone who isn't a boomer.
>>
>>1852033
A truck contributes to society much more than a cyclist does.
>>
>>1852037
That 80% can get off their asses and vote if they actually want what you think they want
>>
>>1852041
They increasingly are. I live in mixed use infill.

Either way, the original point, that started all of this, is that cars are pretty gay because they mean higher taxes and being dependent on an entire government and bureaucratic infrastructure instead of just using your legs and walking somewhere.

nice "freedom" lmao
>>
>>1852040
A truck contributes to whoever hired them and it's their bill to pay, not society's.
>more than a cyclist does
More than a sportscar joyrider too.
>more than a commuting cyclist does
More than a commuting car driver too.
I don't get what you're trying to say.
Are you trying to say a bicycle is not for transportation or are you one of those 'buying cars is good for the economy and therefore for society' types?
>>
>>1852043
>truck delivers a few tons of grocery for 100s of people
>bike delivers at best lukewarm chinese food to 4 people
>>
>>1852042
Their's a difference between being pro mixed use and being a full ban cars numtot tard. The former gets democratic support, the latter doesn't. Even in Europe most households own cars
>>
>>1852047
Do you have any arguments that aren't strawmen? Nobody said anything about banning cars.

I use a park and ride station because it's faster and better than the bus.
>>
>>1852045
The cost of trucking those tons of groceries should be passed to the consumer, not the taxpayer.
A bike is for space-efficiently delivering people at short distances.

Subsidized trucking is part of the reason for sprawl.
Urban residents are paying taxes so that other people can pave a road up a mountain and haul lumber there to build a house.
Subsidized gas is part of the reason for sprawl.
Urban residents are paying taxes so that other people can live miles away from their workplace.
>>
>>1852048
When the ICE bans come in force in places like California it's essentially a car ban for anyone who isn't upper middle class
>>
>>1852052
Cheaper cars will be available by then
>>
>>1852052
>Another n/o/gger seething about an optimistic proposal for 2035 in one state to stop producing NEW ICE vehicles in that state
>Thinks old ICE cars will be illegal.
>>
>>1852052
That isn't even an /n/ issue. /n/ hates electric cars just as much as ICE cars.
>>
>>1852053
It's hopium on par with fusion which is 2 more weeks away from being a thing.
Lithium is going to get more expensive, not less expensive once people are pushed towards electric by ecolaws.

Ebikes are going to be the only affordable mode of private transportation but government regulation sucks all the fun out of them
>>
>>1852056
>thinking that the used car market isn't going to inflate hugely once people rush to get their cars before spare parts run out
You could get to the point where a 20 year old Honda shitbox costs the same as high end Tesla because only the Honda shitbox is viable in rural areas
>>
>>1852059
You're dooming about a 2035 pipe dream proposal spat out by some suits who do it to lock the climate-anxiety voting block down.
>thinking that the used car market isn't going to inflate hugely
You think that they won't do a 180 as soon as that starts losing them votes?
>>
>>1852058
No it's not anon you're being a doomer. There's no reason why a technology wont get cheaper in a decade. There's multiple battery technologies being researched not. Toyota already has solid state batteries comparing that to fusion which requires creating multimillion degree plasmas on earth is ridiculous.
>>
>>1852070
In 30 years nothing has got any better with electric cars, plus demand is going skyrocket , that's why I'm a doomer on electric cars. The EU push towards electric is going to make impact sooner than the lib American states
>>
>>1852078
>In 30 years nothing has got any better with electric cars
Then you're just willfully ignorant honestly this is so absurd I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me
>>
>>1846893
Move to Berlin 100 years ago
>>
>>1845505
>I get a week's groceries on a bike all the time. I'm only shopping for myself
>I'm only shopping for myself
this is the problem right here. using bikes a main source of transportation is only doable if you are single, healthy, and are fortunate enough to live somewhere that has all of your necessities in bike distance. the moment and of those is gone youre fucked

>have significant other
>have kids or dependents
>have health issues
>get sick or injured
>are too far away to bike
>bad weather conditions

Not only that but every bike tard acts like the world is the netherlands or some european city. Try biking around in phoenix AZ or any southwest city and you'll change your mind. Or how about winter time in rochester NY? How are you going to bail when a tornado pops up in backyard in TN? the list goes on.
>>
>>1852058
>EVs are too expensive because not enough people use them so theres no infrastructure or subsidies for them!
>EVs are too expensive because everyone needs lithium now!

the reality is that lefties are seething because pushing for EVs was supposed to be an unrealistic goal to push on to normies to make them suffer but along cam Elon and not only made it possible but the best choice for normies as well.
>>
>>1853439
this is solved by good public transportation, also it's categorically false that kids cant go on bikes, cargo bikes exist to carry kids and it's not a problem or impossible, yes you need safe infrastructure first so we are back to square one which is developing proper infrastructure, I guess if you have like 6 kids you might need a car but that's just not the majority case at all.
>>
>>1853439
>using bikes a main source of transportation is only doable if you are single, healthy, and are fortunate enough to live somewhere that has all of your necessities in bike distance

Nigga, what do you think this thread is about.

If you don't live within bike distance of basic necessities, you live in a shithole.
>>
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>>1853439
Get a bike trailer and you can carry as many groceries or children as you need.
Get an e-bike and you can be a fat sack of shit.

You faggots always just dig deeper and deeper trying to find edge cases where you have to use a car, and you're missing the point.
The point isn't to replace all car trips. The point is to replace the replaceable ones. Which is a lot of them.
Most car trips are to places within 4 miles. The weather is usually good enough for riding. You're usually not carrying large cargo. You're usually not injured. And you're usually not running away from a fucking tornado. By all means use a car where you have to.

By the way nobody runs away from tornados. I live in tornado country. You just stay inside and hope you don't get hit.
>>
>>1844197
>With the advent of the end of fossil fuels and industrial age how do you think transport will look like in the near future (next 50-100 years)?
things will be delivered to you and you will work from home. we are already there, I get my groceries and all my stuff delivered already. people will be ushered into big cities where public transportation will be available in the form of buses and rail
>>
>>1844353
they used to be affordable if you was a burger flipper
>>
>>1853593
>Just take your new washing machine home on bike trailer.
>its not about trying to get rid of all car trips, even though we are banning the only type of car that people on median incomes can afford
>>
>>1845498
Longer distance? Train.
Moving stuff? Call friend with van or rent one, because anything big enough to need a car won't fit in my car anyway.
>>
>>1853642
I live in a 1st world country, when I buy a new washing machine the store delivers it to my home and even installs it for me.
>>
You’re going to see more and more “infill development” in major cities so people won’t have to use cars as much.
>>
>>1853642
>washing machine
Stop posting edge cases at me. How often do you buy washing machines? Just have it delivered.
Also you can probably transport a washing machine by bike trailer. Saw a guy move a couch with one once.

>even though we are banning the only type of car that people on median incomes can afford
Only in California, and not until 2035. Even then you'll still be able to buy used cars of any type, or buy whatever you want in another state.
Plug in hybrids are also allowed which are quite affordable. Same price as regular hybrids.
>>
>>1853646
This. They also take and get rid of your old one. Hell, even second hand stores deliver.
>>
>ITT: Smug, passive-aggressive YIMBYs
>>
>>1853728
Some stores even buyback your old one so the new one is discounted. And they take care of disposal as well.
Last washing machine I bought they took the old one and installed the new one for me all in one go. Didn't even have to put on my shoes.
I gave the technicians a cold lemonade as a thanks.
>>
>>1854267
lol cry more fag
>>
>>1849874
Americans are also shallow as fuck and think being seen in a moped is humiliating, they need their Cañonero Double Wide SUV to feel like rich people.
>>
>>1854390
same for all people. Americans are just not poor
>>
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>>1853593
>You faggots always just dig deeper and deeper trying to find edge cases where you have to use a car
>>1853642
>>Just take your new washing machine home on bike trailer.
>>
>>1854391
No, American culture is extra aids and superficial with that shit.
Going into massive debt for a car is seen as very stupid and irresponsible in Europe. People won't be impressed by your poor financial decisions.
>>
>>1849868
That was communism
>>
>>1845519
European here.
Why the fuck would I take a train when I can go by car??
>>
>>1846253
>makes cities shit to live in by destroying parking spaces
>thinks anybody will want to live there
>>
>>1853593
>The point is to replace the replaceable ones.
Why the fuck would anyone want to replace the comfortable ac cooled car with something strictly worse, like a bike or a bus???
>>
>>1854272
>cold lemonade
>not 15% of the price of the washing machine as a tip
If you can't afford to tip don't get washing machines.
>>
>>1854391
Americans would go into crippling debt just to get one such SUVs.
Americans are poor as shit, they get nickel and dime'd everywhere.
>>
>>1854524
Americans are poor as shit, it's why they have ACs when europeans die from heat, it's why they drive V8s when europeans drive I4s.

ok
>>
>>1854524
lol Europoors wouldn't even get approved for that loan.
>>
>>1854514
You are now banned from complaining about gas prices ever again.
>>
>>1854581
But I'm didn't vote for democrats or any other green politicians??
>>
>>1853524
>>1853549
>>1853593
Karen isnt going to bike her three kids from soccer practice with frozen goods from the grocery store in any situation let alone in weather that is less than ideal, Paco isnt going to pedal his entire landscaping equipment around in a bike trailer, stacy isnt going to want to ride a bike when she has period cramps. Its all just so unrealistic.

>>1853593
>Most car trips are to places within 4 miles. The weather is usually good enough for riding. You're usually not carrying large cargo. You're usually not injured. And you're usually not running away from a fucking tornado.
If that is all true then there is nothing stopping anyone from going out, buying a bike, and doing just that but...

>By all means use a car where you have to.
This is always going to be the case unless you force people out of their cars onto bikes.
>>
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>>1854603
>If that is all true then there is nothing stopping anyone from going out, buying a bike, and doing just that but...
But you're going to get murdered by falsely self-righteous cagies if you do.
You're going to get constantly buzzed at 50 mph by falsely self-righteous cagies until that happens.
The rest of the cagies will probably not even perceive you.
Your local government gave you no dollar or a single thought.
Slip lanes will put you in a blind spot.
The law is not clear about how you're supposed to turn left on a multi-lane intersection, so cagies will probably try to murder you just for trying.
Culs-de-sac makes the 50 mph arterial your only option.
Zoning made your grocery store and other amenities on the other side of picrel (no pedestrian crossings).
Zoning, minimum parking requirements and other development regulations made small/local amenities literally illegal.

>If that is all true
It is. You're just in that low IQ "The world around me just is. Natural, normal, unchanging, undeliberate." mindset.
No wonder you're retarded enough to throw a
>"seems like people just don't want to cycle"
>>
>>1854523
I literally never tip, ever. Never ever under any circumstances.

>>1854585
>use limited resource for unnecessary things
>complain that resource is more scarce and thus prices rise

Want cheaper gas? Don't use gas.
>muh ac
fatass
>>
>>1854497
All humans are the same everywhere. YOu're just coping because you can't afford anything in Europe
>>
>>1854603
In a bicycle friendly society the kids can bike themselves to and from soccer practice. And I transport frozen goods from the grocery store on a bike all the time.
>>
>>1854637
>limited resource

peak oil anytime lol
With fracking there is so much oil that it's practically unlimited.

Europeans are forced into shitty little econ boxes and they still pay way more for fuel than americans.

The truth is simple, want cheap gas?
Vote right wing, avoid greentards.
>>
>>1854637
Also wanting basic human comforts doesn't make you a fatass.
It makes you rich enough to afford them, people from socialist countries wouldn't understand.

Can't wait for europeans to freeze this winter to pRoTeCt tHe eNvIrOnMeNt.
>>
>>1854722
I don't want cheap gas. Cheap gas = more pollution
>>
>>1854725
>Can't wait for europeans to freeze this winter to pRoTeCt tHe eNvIrOnMeNt.
Im pretty sure they will throw greenfaggots out of helicopters along with other commies after realizing who is behind all of this.
>>
>>1854725
>driving in your 4x4 5000 lbs ACed GoyBox™
>at all distances, all weather conditions, all circumstances, all purposes
>basic human comforts
These same people will call it the epitome of masculinity
>>
>>1854758
>at all distances, all weather conditions, all circumstances, all purposes

Yes, it's incredible how much cars outclass any other mode of transportation.

Being able to stay comfy in a big metal boxy machine going 99mph is many as fuck.
>>
>>1854741
>i want everyone to live in a pod, eat bug and freeze this winter
>much greener that way

good thing you fags can't affect american, and after this winter europeans will hunt you in the streets
>>
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>>1854761
No wonder mutt test and sperm count is plummeting
>>
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>>1854758
>driving my 3000lb sport coupe that reeks of gasoline, would never pass an inspection in any civilized country
>no AC, heater broken
>all distances, all weather, all circumstances, all purposes
>flying down the road at double the speed limit, blasting Jerry Reed

Now THAT'S mascinity
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>>1854763
yep, refusing to eat bugs and being able to afford nice things makes you low test

this is some europoor cope
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>>1854770
>>1854774
No. You're spoiled brats who interpret availability of other options as an infringement on your freedom.
Enjoy heart problems in your 40s
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>>1854715
>In a bicycle friendly society the kids can bike themselves to and from soccer practice. And I transport frozen goods from the grocery store on a bike all the time.
Im not pedos taking my kids off the street because you want everyone to ride bikes and Im not going to pedal around town with groceries like a faggot when I can drive my car
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>>1854789
>interpret availability of other options as an infringement on your freedom

It's not about availability of other options you drooling retard.
It's about making driving a car impossible for the average person.
You are either a retard or one of the new WEF shills.
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>>1854798
Your kids are more likely to get killed in a car crash than snatched by pedos.
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>>1854799
>It's about making driving a car impossible for the average person.
And where did you start seeing this slippery slope?
Your downtown street got on-street parking removed so now you have to walk five minutes to get to that kebab shop?
Or even got pedestrianized? I bet that kebab shop owner hated that.
A speedbump was installed on your commute so you don't mow down people at the crossing?
A gutter was turned into a "bike lane" so now you have to check your shoulder when turning so you don't go to jail?
Your gas and roads are not being subsidized enough?
Some suits are spouting some bullshit for the 2030s just to buy climate anxiety votes? And it's literally a car ban? And it's totally gonna happen?

Boo fucking hoo, brat.
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>>1854789
Brother, I smoke a handful of tobacco every day and wash it down with a six pack of Coors. I ain't making it to the other side of 50. Might as well go fast while I can.
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>>1854824
>downtown street parking gone
Yeah, as somebody who lives outta town, kinda need a spot for the ol' barge
>pedestrianized
Already pedestrian friendly, just cuts out drivers, a big part of their business
>speed bump so you can't mow people down
I already don't. I go double the limit because I know I can handle it. Haven't hurt anybody yet.
>gutter bike lane
Sweet, an undertaking lane for the motorcycle
>moar subsidies?
Always yes. Gas should be under 2 bucks and the roads really need repaving before winter. Cough up.
>climate
We'll grow oranges in Alaska
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>>1854824
>Your downtown street got on-street parking removed so now you have to walk five minutes to get to that kebab shop?
Removing parking makes it impossible to drive a car there, even though everybody prefers to use a car instead of walking.
>Or even got pedestrianized? I bet that kebab shop owner hated that.
As did everybody that lives, works or wants to commute through that street.
>A speedbump was installed on your commute so you don't mow down people at the crossing?
Yep. Slowing cars from 70 to 20 cause traffic. Retards should look before crossing the street.
>A gutter was turned into a "bike lane".
Bikes belong on the sidewalk with the pedestrians.
Bike lanes make streets narrower and harder to drive.
>Your gas and roads are not being subsidized enough?
Gas isn't subsidized you retard, it's heavily taxed.
Also that's what taxes are for retard, not for importing terrorists like in europe, but for building and maintaining roads.

Thank you for proving my point retard. Bikes and buses can't compete with cars, and the only way to get people out of cars is to make them impossible to use.
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>>1854835
>even though everybody prefers to use a car instead of walking.
>As did everybody that lives, works or wants to commute through that street.
Delusional.
>Retards should look before crossing the street.
>Bikes belong on the sidewalk with the pedestrians.
>Bike lanes make streets narrower and harder to drive.
Brat.
>Gas isn't subsidized you retard, it's heavily taxed.
Undertaxed (aka subsidized).
Vehicle user taxes don't cover road costs.
Not even close.
They never have.
No matter how much you want to think they do.
Your average cyclists overpays for the road he rides on.
You just like to pretend it's the other way around because you're a spoiled brat who hasn't thought about this for more than two seconds.

https://taxfoundation.org/states-road-funding-2019/
https://taxfoundation.org/state-infrastructure-spending/
https://publicinterestnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Who-Pays-for-Roads-vUS.pdf
https://www.heise.de/news/Studie-Strassenverkehr-deckt-Kostenbedarf-nur-zu-36-Prozent-6196574.html for German cagies

>the only way to get people out of cars is to make them impossible to use
Delusional.
When the whole world has been turning around your cuckbox at the expense of everyone else, any slight deviation is an attack.

>>1854826
Based.
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>>1854835
wrong
>you will own nothing
they will remove parking because you will not own a car
you will rent one in the app, whether appslave driver or autonomous self driving
>you will own nothing
>and
>you
>will
>be
>happy
nobody likes driving anyway, use uber and watch animu in the backseat, or use bus/train and watch hentai while commuting, better than being a braindead cager forced do nothing but focus on the road
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>>1854841
>won't own a car
What if I already have one?
>just have somebody else take you places so you can be on your screen 24/7
Am I the only guy who legitimately enjoys driving better than watching TV?
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>>1854842
we're old world humans anon, I might've wrote that comment you replied to in satire but it's rooted in truth of what's to come and the direction of the world. Service as an economy. Still, I'm an old world human that enjoys seeing the world pass by too, even on the train/bus I enjoy looking out the window more than my phone. You can have your car but the option to get by without one is a good option to have for others who don't want to marry to a car contract. The truth is the younger always online generation will mentally need to be connected to their screen 24/7 and driving requiring 100% focus is a conflict of interest, plus it reduces the cost of living significantly and the stress about maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc.

New world humans have an incentive to want to live the life
>you will own nothing
>and you will be happy
Newer world humans will find it normal
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>>1854845
Raising my children on the farm, screenless for their formative years ought to prolong my kind of abnormality for at least a generation. In an area like this, a car is an absolute necessity, and having more than one for different situations is not just desirable, but usual. They'll grow up driving the equipment around like I did, second nature by the time they're old enough to hit public roads. If I'm a good enough dad, then my old fashioned way of going about things oughta evoke feelings of nostalgia and comfort, much like my dad's ways did for me. The whole rest of the world can propel itself to a totally connected, autonomous and digital future all it likes, people subsuming themselves into faceless collectives, mere data points before the rapidly developing societal management software yet to come, if it makes them happy. But only so long as I and my family are left alone.
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>>1854840
>Delusional
It's literally what's happening retard, if going somewhere by car is an option, people will choose it.
>Undertaxed (aka subsidized).
Fuel isn't subsidized retard.
Roads are free to use, obviously they don't directly generate any money.
The amount of goods that get transported by roads and the taxes that come from those goods easily outweigh the cost.
Not even counting the freedom of travel that roads bring to people.

You sound painfully european, your only response to government making peoples life shitter is
>brat

Can't afford fuel?
>brat
Can't afford electric
>brat
Can't afford hot water
>brat

>When the whole world has been turning around your cuckbox at the expense of everyone else
Everyone else already drives a car.
Drivable cities benefit everyone.
Walkable cities make the elites feel good about themselves at the cost of everyone else.
>>
How do we account for weather?

Where I live 3 months of the year are below freezing consistently, occasionally 10 below zero. I would literally die of exposure biking a couple miles unless I'm dressed up like I'm crossing antartica every time I go out.

For all the arguments about changing infrastructure or even city plans we can't exactly make a location not cold as fuck.
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>>1854923
>For all the arguments about changing infrastructure or even city plans we can't exactly make a location not cold as fuck.
The truth is, some places aren't meant for human habitation, like Antarctica, or the middle of the Sahara desert. The correct thing to do is for people to move out of those places unless there's some overwhelmingly important natural resource there.
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>>1854924

People have to live in cold shitholes to support agriculture to grow you food though.
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>>1854923
Did human beings live where you do before the year 1900? Pretty much the entire planet was settled by people before the invention of the automobile and other technologies we take for granted today.
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>>1854923
All you need is some winter clothes. The cold isn't a big deal.
The real problem is ice and snow.
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>>1854926
Our ancestors worked fought and died so we wouldn't have to subject ourselves to such difficult conditions.
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>>1854932

If you have walked outside in below zero temperatures (or below -17.7 C) you would realize it is in fact a big deal.
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>>1854945
I went skiing a lot as a kid, so the idea of being out in winter cold for hours at a time is normal to me.
Below zero is bad, but easily dealt with if you're only out in it for a half hour or whatever.
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>>1854919
Have you ever considered that there are people outside of your GM designed goy debt farm bubble that like walkability because they actually experience it, unlike any of you mutts?
Do you actually know what bikeability/walkability is?
Because your city/state/country doesn't have it.
It has death traps designed by vassals of the automotive industry.
Of course everybody drives.
But you're retarded enough to think that a gutter of a 50 mph 6-lane with some paint has no cyclists on it because cycling is just universally disliked.
You don't know anything outside of your cul-de-sac interstate segregated bubble.

>The amount of goods that get transported by roads and the taxes that come from those goods easily outweigh the cost.
So we're socialists now? We're shifting the cost of transport from its consumer to all taxpayers?
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>>1844197
>how do you think transport will look like in the near future
it will be me
driving my car.
nerd.
>>
>>1849868
State capitalism is Singapore or the modern PRC, the Soviets were communists. And nothing you say or do can remove the stench of failure from the Soviet experiment.
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>>1854789
The problem is that nobody actually wants to take that option, hence all the governments putting increasingly heavy taxes on you until you select the elite approved option
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>>1855085
>hence all the governments building nothing but car infrastructure until you select the elite approved option
FTFY

Also >>1852024
Cars are undertaxed.
Seethe more, brat.
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>>1855095
Or we can build metros, so that people can choose to either drive or take the subway to work. It eliminates unnecessary cars on the road, and your car commute would be better.
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>>1855051
This is one of the dumbest posts on this board ever
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>>1855038
God you are dumb.
If anybody preferred biking or walking there would be no need to make driving a car impossible.

I know what walkability is you retard, I come from a post communist shit hole where only the richest could afford cars, everyone else was forced to take a bus or walk.
Those horrid tightly packed 'walkable' shitty cities suck dick.

You are some kind of schizo if you think GM or some other 'evil' corporations are responsible governments building roads.

When communism fell in the 90s, everyone started buying used western cars and voting for governments that wanted to improve road infrastructure.
Not because of some evil car conspiracy, but because cars are the superior mode of transportation and everybody wants to own one.

Walking, biking and riding a bus are a last resort when driving a car is impossible.
You and retarded greens like you want to make driving a car so expensive, that's it's impossible for the average person.

>So we're socialists now? We're shifting the cost of transport from its consumer to all taxpayers?

If you have ever bought anything at a store, you are a consumer of transportation.
Even if you didn't that's a retarded argument, it's like saying that if your house isn't on fire you shouldn't pay taxes for firefighters.
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>>1844197
>the system becomes less and less capitalist the more this disparity grows
>the rich and powerful get more wasteful
My guy, you cannot be this stupid. The ideal of Capitalism requires endless growth for the wealthy to be taxed to fund public services or trickle down economics or whichever model of capitalism you believe. Which isn't sustainable or possible.
Inevitably Capitalism requires that the wealthy get poorer or the poor do.
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>>1855124
Ah. A Slav.
Now that's a special kind of cagie.
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>>1854945
>>1854923
are you really kvetching about above -20 as if it's unliveable? if you've lived somewhere with those temperatures you'd know how easy it is to layer up, yes even as a biker, also public transportation is almost always heated unless you live in a shithole, especially subways.
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>>1854923
If someday they'll build a tunnel between the basements in my neighbourhood and the next tram station I'd be able to visit several huge malls all around the city without being subjected to weather while walking for 4 minutes and would probably go shopping in my pyjamas.
Maybe that is the future of public tansport, full asimov-style indoor environments.

I also used to ride my bike to school through deep snow and while it was freezing though, even if I could just have taken the bus. Snow hills and -19 C was just more fun than muddy weather at around 0.
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in the future your government will transport your biological cadaver with pod drones around the cyber brain hive
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>>1854945
>>1854923
I live in the Yukon and bike to the store at -40° for BBQ chips
It's not that bad. Getting your car started, warmed up, and defrosting the windows at the same temperature is way worse.
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>>1844357
>even on a very modest fifty grand a year (the bare minimum for anyone who is slightly skilled)
Just because someone is skilled doesn't mean someone is going to pay them 50k in salary for that skill, even if you're willing to put up with the "soft skills" that working in a fucking office entails.

t. makes ~40k a year on entrepreneurial creative works and no longer want to kill myself every day doing something I hate but pays more
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>>1844197
Honestly?

>society backslides and gets poorer
>cities gentrify and become uninhabitable for 90% of the population
>mass migration into adjacent small towns and run down suburbs that can't accomodate
>mfg 1960 unmaintained house is renovated to house four families, lawns become tent spaces and subsistence gardens
>emission regulations make electric cars a luxury, rate of car ownership plummets
>a lot of jobs in this country are largely built around people communting out of cities and suburbs to industrial areas far away on cheaper land - most employees will have to depend on abysmal public buses that can't meet demand and private forms of transportation/carpools that will be organized by employers instead(this will be used to justify lower wages)
>society starts to look like Asia, swarms of cheap Chinese scooters, mopeds, motorcycles, and ebikes on disorderly roads, slow lanes of highways probably become dedicated to non-car travel
>likely reintroduction of corporate towns in the middle of nowhere so Amazon and others can maintain their employee base in light of these issues
>federal government throws trillions of dollars at infrastructure improvement that gets built at a snail's pace if at all, tending to only improve gentrified city areas that were once ghettos instead of the new ghettos
>all cars become luxury cars, releasing exclusively SUVs for wealthy families and sports cars as toys that get passed down like iphones - manufacterers only have a few cars in their lineup at all with badge engineered underpinnings, making most cars pretty indistinguishable outside of marketing and customization(think smartphones)
>your workday takes several hours longer, to the point where some people are compelled to only go home on weekends because it takes them 6 hours to bike home, becomes normalized that working single men are homeless anyway to save money

Something like that. When a country is "developed", it quickly undevelops itself.
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>>1855772
I despise the word "gentrification". It's mostly just an excuse to never do anything good.
People will call bike lanes and low cost housing gentrification just because the housing is new and bike infrastructure is desirable.
They'll call mixed-use development gentrification because it's so rare and popular that the prices to live there are high.
We'll never have good infrastructure if we can only build bad infrastructure to avoid "gentrification".
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>>1844197
Lots of shitty pod based transport startup failures
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>>1844197
Ideally electric trains and bikes realistically electric cars :(

Oh and hopefully we can start sending people like packages to cut down on the price of flying.
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>>1849866
This.
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>>1855095
>elite approved option
if by elite you mean Nebraska's elite mabye. Most of the top billionaires are ecotards like Gates.
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>>1855962
Electric cars are a meme. We would need 10 years of world lithium production ALONE to replace every ICE vehicle in north America and Europe, not to mention the rapidly developing 3rd world. It's infeasible.
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>>1856367
Irony is that his wish is being fulfilled by his brother. No word on the Sheppard Subway Extension, though.
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>>1844197
We all die
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>>1845501
>weeks groceries
gross



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