imagine living in USA
>>1817062anon it's a bible belt state that's a given. still shitty, but there's some decent towns/cities compared to this garbo
OP, I don't want to suggest that city's planning is good, but it's also not as bad as your pathfinding in that example suggests. There's a creek and a railroad line that are complicating the route here - if you were a pedestrian and willing to use unofficial paths you could make this particular walk quite a bit shorter. Also, that's a silly walk since there's a lot of restaurants due east of that area with the motels that's your starting point.
>>1817073And here's the direct and unofficial walking route
Reminder that the people creating this sort of thing call themselves engineers in the US.
>>1817079holy kek
>>1817082And they're not even out of the residential zone when they get to the blue bit. It's an absolute nightmare straight up causing the traffic people are trying to escape from when they move there.
>>1817062The absolute horror. I don't even have a driving license because my city is so walkable and has excellent public transport.
>>1817078>>1817079It's not an accident though, it's a planning style that keeps out strangers (they will steal your children!!) and car traffic (because people understand cars are dangerous and noisy, so they don't want cars driving near their own homes...). Is that kind of planning good for the community as a whole? Of course not, but the wants of the people with the money to live there are more important than the public good, and that kind of selfishness has become the guiding principle of American public life...
>/n/ - fee fees about walking
>>1817062why would you stay right next to the highway and then get mad when you're expected to use it?
>>1817092Why would you base your mobility planning around a highway that anyone not in a high power motor vehicle isn't even allowed to use?
>>1817090Discouraging through traffic is better for the community though. That's what arterial roads are for.>selfishness Sick of this fucking word, sick of self-flagellating nobodies who want to shame other people into being miserable crabs-in-a-bucket like they are. Fuck you
>>1817096>instead of having 200 million cars covering 8,500 miles a year each and deal with a little through traffic but at least retaining a sane and somewhat walkable street layout, let's create an absolute nightmare of dead end mazes and end up with 320 million cars covering 15,000 miles a year each
>>1817091>>1817096Would you put an eagle in a tiny cage where it cannot spread its wings? Would you keep a salmon in a small fishbowl? Effectively stopping a man from walking is no different - a creature cannot flourish when you take away it's ability to move as nature designed.
>>1817078>>1817079Am I the only the one that likes planning like this?I like mazes and the exploration aspect of suburbia. I used to walk and bike through woods and unofficial paths all the time. Even when I was a delivery driver I enjoyed it.
>>1817095that's not the point. I'm talking about you the individual planning your trip. You're like a person that goes to the circus and gets pissed that clowns are there. Also if you had to stay in this area for a business trip you could have stayed in this hotel and walked on the greenway to a restaurant. Besides that If you come to the US you should know you need a car. Especially in Mobile fucking Alabama
>>1817062Imagine being too lazy to plan an actual direct path using google street view or heaven forbid, actually setting off on an adventure and just walking in the direction of the place you want to go.The phones get smarter while the people get dumber.
>imagine living in USABreaking news: Foreigners still spend 60% of each day thinking about the United States.>>1817078>the people creating this sort of thing call themselves engineersIt's more an emergent pheonomenon, not something that is designed top-down.>>1817096>That's what arterial roads are forIn theory.In practice, any alternative route will be used if it's marginally faster than the arterial road. It happens all the time, when Waze/GMaps/etc routes hordes of people around a minor slowdown.
>>1817099Yeah. So what>>1817100First your kind complains that Americans are lazy and don't walk places enoughThen you turn around and complain that walking too much is the problem
lel this thread got the mutts fuming and shaking, good job OP.
>>1817106>we're not dumb, you're dumb for expecting us to be smart
>>1817114>So whatSo your anti through traffic design not only moves the traffic elsewhere, it multiplies it by magnitudes in the process, including in areas that are meant to be part of the low traffic zone. Anyone who lives around the blue bottleneck in >>1817079 is directly suffering from anyone living in the red zone despite already being deep in residential territory and nowhere near an arterial. This design is not only defeating to other areas, it's even partially self-defeating. It doesn't fucking work. On an engineering level it's a retarded fucking failure.
>>1817130You're always going to have traffic bottlenecks, that's just how transport is, trains, ships, and airplanes have their congestion points too. >It doesn't fucking workAccording to whom? You?
>>1817134According to how all countries with this sort of road planning end up driving at least 50% more than other developed countries and therfore wasting 50% more time and resources on transportation without actually increasing their mobility, i.e. their ability to reach points of interest within a given time frame.
>>1817128>I went to Mobile Alabama and now I am mad how could this happen to me?
>>1817137You'd have to pay me to even set foot on US soil again in my lifetime.
Imagine sacrificing space, a yard, a garage, plants on your property, owning a property at all and the ability to ever own a car so you can walk to Hardee’s
>>1817139For me? It’s Carl’s Jr.
>>1817138Is this meant to be insulting? We don't want you here
>>1817090>It's not an accident though, it's a planning style that keeps out strangersHilariously off the mark. The neighborhood surrounds a park. I don’t understand why people keep advocating for worse views and less privacy. Is an extra 5 minutes to your daily commute really worth the gripe?
>>1817136>According to my scattershot screechingThought so.
>>1817075>Just walk down the Interstate bro!
>>1817139>plants on your propertyNot if passive aggressive lawn fascist boomers have any say in it.
>>1817181>Oh no I have to follow the rules I agreed to follow when I purchased a dwelling in a HOA/historic district
>>1817079is this a city or a big suburb area?
>>1817194It's a St Louis suburb called Affton38.5471356669165, -90.31818766533546
>>1817185>nooooo you cant have clover or wildflowers in your yard it needs to be sterile one inch laaaaaawwwwnnnn
>>1817185Sorry but you have to understand that people outside north americuck value this cool thing called freedom.
>>1817199>Noooooo I have to follow the rules and bylaws I agreed to voluntarily, in writing, when I bought the house
>>1817196Ah, then it's completely justified if it keeps out the undesirables. >but it's not efficient! people should live in a densely packed cityThen clean up the city so that people actually want to live there. Make the police declare war on gangs and start executing them in the street.
>>1817213>voluntarily>when shitburbia housing is the only thing anyone can affordlel nice bugman + stockholm syndrome mentality, slave
>>1817062>>1817075>>1817073Imagine going to a Hardee's for any reason other than it being on your way and you're hungry, or it somehow being the only option for food and you're starving
>>1817229You'll find subdivisions that have more strict rules and others that are more lax, and some neighborhoods with none at all.
>>1817199Meanwhile virtually every single condo in a big city has an HOA while only some subdivisions have one
>>1817078Why the FUCK would you want to associate with the Ione Ln. plebs when you're living on based Radom Dr.?Slumming it up for shits and giggles, are we?
>>1817090I’m glad you actually understand the reasoning behind this design. Most people willingly refuse to acknowledge that there is reason behind it and that this planning even includes things like traffic calming. I think it’s awesome that people have the option to live in places like that, I really enjoyed it before my work forced me to move back to the city :(
>>1817100calm down nostradamus, its a gated community, not a new world order
>>1817208>voluntarily enter into contractWTF I HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE RULES OF THE CONTRACT I SIGNED REEEE????kys
>>1817062damn wtf you're telling me that the planners of this suburban commuter town where 100% of people own a car didn't incude a direct pedestrain bridge from the days Inn to the Hardee's???? oh the humanity
>>1817270does this look like a gated community to you?https://www.google.com/maps/@38.547375,-90.3184807,3a,75y,154.21h,89.41t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWUVx7pClgNJv8FX-i9AIig!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DWUVx7pClgNJv8FX-i9AIig%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D303.46637%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192
>>1817275potentially? who gives a shit if there's not an actual physical gate, its clear that purpose of it is to limit "stray" access
>>1817275A community designed to not have random strangers passing through is effectively a gated community.
>>1817277>>1817281gated [adj.] - having gates to control the movement of traffic, people or animals
>>1817325 virgin nounvir·gin | \ ˈvər-jən\Definition of virgin1a : a person who has not had sexual intercourse
>>1817550>appeal to sexual experience fallacy
>>1817062Why should you expect to be able to easily walk to a Hardee's located at the exit of a Highway?It's not even meant to serve pedestrians; there's no sidewalk and it's in the middle of a forest; the only reason anything was ever built in that locaton is because it's by a major highway junction.
>>1817112trespassing is illegal bro
>>1817583Fallacy fallacy, he's right about you being a virgin and pointing out a fallacy doesn't make him wrong
>>1817138stay mad and poor and dont come back
>>1817644Circular logic. You can't walk there because there's no sidewalk, there's no sidewalk because no one's expected to walk there, you can't walk there because there's no sidewalk, there's no sidewalk because no one's expected to walk there.
>>1818280If you built a sidewalk nobody would want to walk there either.
>>1818330>here's a photo of an empty shut down strip mall, your argument is DEBUNKED
>>1818339lol it doesn't look shut down at all. It looks like sunday afternoon. People on the sidewalks are a rarity here. The only place without a sidewalk is the local corporate park
>>1817583based
>>1818358>roseville-minnesota-empty-strip-mall-because-of-the-shutdown-from-the-coronavirus-epidemic-2BBC7MR.jpg
>>1818428Ok, it shut down during the pandemic like everything else, now it's back open againNo one walks around places like that. He's right, the sidewalks are unoccupied 99%+ of the day
I don't know why buses don't use the freeway and stop at every exit.
>>1818330>Roseville population: 36,000Wow, what are the chances of there not being somebody on this exact piece of sidewalk at the exact moment this photo was taken??
>>1817105Same. I live in a loopy neighborhood and once in a while people drive through looking confused. I’m also on a culdesac so kids can play in the street, and it’s walkable to the grocery store, some restaurants, schools, bars, and a trail system. Most of my suburb isn’t like that, but it’s possible to find sweet spots.
>>1817062Is literally every major street in that picture closed for construction?>>1817073>>1817075>walkingOh, well there's your problem.
>>1817079Nuke the entire neighborhood.
>>1817079Yeah, that’s the point.
>>1817079How's this fundamentally different from any large apartment complex with its own parking lot?
>>1818339>an empty shut down strip mallthat's like half of the country lmao
>>1818587>walking is funnyimagine being this obese
>>1817100>Would you put an eagle in a tiny cage where it cannot spread its wings?>What do you mean you like having more than 500 square feet of space?>What do you mean you like having full freedom to travel outside of a 10 mile bubble?I’ve lived in numerous suburbs and never once had trouble walking around. I don’t walk to the grocery store because even if that was under a mile it’s pointless. I’m not going to go shopping for a gallon of milk, I’ll go shopping for milk, bread, pasta, butter, salt, meat, jelly, rice, flour, sugar, etc. Enough shit to make the chore worthwhile. I won’t run the dishwasher for a single plate and fork either.
>>1818704I’m not sure if this entire post is sarcastic because the dishwasher analogy is exactly why walking to the shop works - when you do something manually, you aren’t wasting resources to do it. So you can go to the shop twice a week when it’s ten minutes walk away and spend less time shopping total than when you go shopping once a week 30 minutes drive away. You wouldn’t run a dishwasher but you’re disabled if you can’t wash a single plate by hand in seconds.
>>1818708Why do people assume everyone who drives lives 30 minutes from a grocery store? I drive to get groceries, beyond being able to get them at several places on my commute path my closest grocery store is 5 minutes away. With a car I can make that trip on a weekly, biweekly, or even monthly basis without worrying the slightest bit about capacity. As for the dishes the reasonable thing for the disabled person to do is to just let a single plate and fork sit in the dishwasher overnight and then wash it the following night after he gets dishes from the following breakfast and dinner.
>>1818690Walking for hours to go to fucking Hardees is hilarious.
>>1818713>As for the dishes the reasonable thing for the disabled person to do is to only use foam plates an plastic forks and never wash anythingftfy
>>1817105> Am I the only the one that likes planning like this?I really hope so, bro.
>>1817078>>1817079I am sick of this retarded /pol/ tier repost being spammed all over /n/. Yes, you cherry picked one example and literally everyone has seen it already.There are plenty of examples in the US and this is one of the least realistic ones, stop reusing this one you lazy Reddit fucks.
>>1817062We United Statians got btfo pretty hard on this one lol. We take the loss, but you have to understand that we are a country ran by capitalist jews that want to extract all the money from us and make us dumb and gullible so that we can continue funding their vengeance schemes on Europe
>>1818763No.
>>1817062imagine being a eurocuck
>>1817185This.>>1817199>>1817208Literal retards.
>>1818770>Muh Jews>Three richest men in the US are white>Richest family in the US is white
>>1818748I’m sorry you didn’t grow up in a suburb, anon.
>>1818795Suburban youth is kino especially if dumb zoning laws had farms, running or abandoned, scattered throughout your town.
>>1818280you're a retard. its a restaurant CLEARLY placed to serve the nearby highway exits, not your little dutch walkability wank-off dreams
>>1818708bitch the supermarket doesn't get further away if I buy a car. Why would I subject myself to the awful experience of "shopping" more than the bare minimum solely because I walk to the store and therefore cannot carry more than 4 days of food on me?
>>1817139The point is being able to do both, as I can in my neighborhood in Europe
>>1818817what percentage of your post-tax monthly paycheck goes to rent/utilities?
>>1818831Around 25%
>>1818545anon you realize there are towns literally all over the world smaller than that where people walk all the time? hell they probably even have a rail line
>>1818817What’s your yardage and how many square feet is your house?
>>1818858>noooo you're not having enough pointless square footage, your life quality is COMPROMISED
>>1818860oh no no.... this nigga is paying $2000/month for a 400sqft closet
>>1818860>Live in a 1,000 square foot hovel with a strip of grass to call a yard>This is the same thing as living in a modest 4,000 square foot house on a half acre of land
>>1818837Congratulations, you missed the point entirely. The point being, the fact that there didn't happen to be someone walking on that small stretch of sidewalk at the exact instant that photo was taken does not mean that no one ever walks on it.
>>1818867>4k sq ft>modestThat's nearly double the average house size.
>>1818982maybe in eurostan
>>1818981There’s also no cars in the prking lot. There’s a high chance it’s closed down.
>>1817185>historic district>USA
>>1818795I grew up in a small village in the Mediterranean. Pretty sure you'll never ever make me jealous.
>>1818867>modestFucking particle board megashed McMansion is what a 4000 sqft house is.
>>1818330>two matress storesthis is money laundering, right?
>>1819099I wasn’t trying to make you jealous, it was just clear you never grew up or lived in a suburb.
>>1817062Idk. I live in the USA and within a 5 min walk I can make it to the beach, the train station, a grocery store, the library, 2 coffee shops, and like 10 restauraunts. I don't even live downtown. Shit's pretty cash, not gonna lie
This kind of shit is what ebikes are perfect for
I don't get this constant reeeing about suburbs. I grew up in a New Jersey surburb none of this shit people meme about is true. As a kid there were all kinds of undeveloped patches of land to go screw around on because the towns keep certain areas wooded for drainage. Every town has a store with anything you could need to buy within 10 minutes drive tops. Most major towns have a mainstreet like pic related where there's walkable bars and restaurants with younger people renting there. It has all of the walkability and shit to do like a city with no niggers, actual land, and the ability to own a car.
>>1819218funny you should say that, because the whole mattress "industry" literally is.
>>1819402...qrd?
>>1817257Kek I thought you were making up those street names at first until I zoomed in
>>1820126>a 20 yard wide corridor of incongruous, dying grass and trees surrounded by streets and commieblocks and every 5 minutes a bigass train comes barreling down the middle of itTruly a slice of nature. I can practically hear the coyotes howling in the distance.
>>1817271Shouldn't have to sign a contract to live there
>>1820138You don't have to. There are many places you can buy a home that isn't subject to HOA rules or neighborhood covenants.
>>1820138...so don't live there? do you lack free will?
>>1820129>dying grassLollmao
>>1818779> tries to shit on europeans> amerilard brain somehow manages to highlight how useless and unnecessarily big American compensator mobiles are insteadincredible job, Tyler, +100 FICO credit score!!
>>1820129>the measure of life quality is whether I can hear the coyotes howlingGo join them, bout the same brain size.
>>1819400The suburban hell posted here is mostly places like Georgia, las vegas, arizona or Florida. Northeastern suburbs are very different
>>1817112>setting off on an adventureYes walking around the perimeters of gated communities and strip malls while cars speed past you at 60mph on the boulevard is such an enriching adventurous experience
>>1821200Lol why are american SUVs even purchaseable in eu
>>1821367For richfags, undeniably they are more secure than smaller cars in case of a crash.
>>1821610>undeniablyThey flip easilyI'm not so sure about the safety of that
>>1818248There's lately a new class of retard lurking who think that this chart is a spellbook
>>1821610SUVs are far more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and all other human-level things around it. Instead of only thinking about your own safety while inside the vehicle you have to consider the *safety gap* that is widened by increased SUV use. You are *arguably* safer in one instance (driving) while far less safe in others (as a pedestrian walking across the street, eating at a cafe on the corner, letting your kids out to play, walking your dog, etc).
>>1821610SUVs are extremely too heavy and easy to flip. This is why the US passed regulations saying that a car has to be able to support its weight on its roof: too many whine-drunk suburb moms got SUVs thinking they’re safer, and flipping them killing their kids. Now the A pillars are really thick, making cars even more dangerous for everyone else (especially kids near school) by blocking significant amounts of the driver’s vision, making drivers more likely to hit and kill you. Cars are also heavier, making them less fuel efficient, carry more momentum (causing worst injuries in a collision), and more sluggish to drive (less fun). Cars just got worst because of retarded faggots thinking SUVs were safer.
>>1821649>lately>new
>>1821673Absolutely, but mutts are egotistical beings so they don't care about pedestrians, roads, cities, countryside belong to the 12V 60 cylinder car>>1821635see >>1821676
>>1821673>SUVs are far more dangerous for pedestrians, cyclists and all other human-level things around it.I don't care>>1821676>This is why the US passed regulations saying that a car has to be able to support its weight on its roofNo, that law first went into effect in 1973>too many whine-drunk suburb moms got SUVs thinking they’re safer, and flipping them killing their kids.>whine-drunkOh. ESL
most neighborhoods in las vegas are giant suburban blocks surrounded by a giant retaining wall with like 2 or 4 entrance/exits to the neighborhood
nearly every main road in las vegas looks like this
>>1823428Can someone please explain to me why I'm supposed to want random traffic driving through my residential neighborhood?
>>1823440you can add some more entrances and exits and the 6wide main road will still be much more efficient and faster than driving through there.
>>1823444If that true they wouldn't be designed to discourage through traffic in the first place
>>1823447look at that map. no one would have much reason at all to cut horizontally through the neighborhood and the only people cutting ertically would be fromt he below neightborhood trying to get to jack in the box, or one of the other resturants along the strip. not many people.but the effect of this is locking pedestrians into neighborhoods. you could at very fucking least have walking path past the retaining walls to allow people to get to fucking bus stops. yeah, theres a lot of peeople who have to take the bus in vegas, and that number is only gonna increase as people get poorer
>>1823447also with your logic "if people wanted street cars in their cities, there would be street cars in their cities. but there arent street cars, so clearly no one wants street cars"
>>1823458>no one would have much reason at all to cut horizontally through the neighborhoodThat's your opinion and you probably don't live there. Weird to see a /n/imby arguing for more roads btw>you could at very fucking least have walking path past the retaining walls to allow people to get to fucking bus stopsPeople who live in subdivisions like that one don't want cars cutting through nor people.>>1823459Quite a straw man
>>1823472i actually lived down the block from that jack in the box and it was a pita to visit someone who lived like 500-1000 feet from me ( inside that neighborhood) cuase i had to pedal about a mile and a half around walls to go see them.>People who live in subdivisions like that one don't want cars cutting through nor people.have you considered some people in those neighborhoods would like to be able to cut in and out of their neighborhood by foot? you dont speak for everyone.
>>1823485>cuase i had to pedal about a mile and a half around walls to go see them.Walking/biking is good for you, as your type is so quick to point out>you dont speak for everyone.But you do?
>>1817062>imagine living in USAI'd rather not, thank you.
>>1823511Then don’t.
>>1818770>Capitalist JewsBut anon i hear on your containment board that lives in my country, it would be because of MAH BLACKS, THE CRIME RATE, and everyone should use CAR because it's the ultimate form of freedom being chained to your car as the only form of transportation even in the suburbs that are built more for Cars than for people.
>>1823428>>1823432It's pretty much the same in most of the Southwest. It's kind of sad we did not build Suburbs where Train stations where right next to them than it being dedicated to cars and random plaza's full of restaurants and fast food.
Problem solved.
>>1823508He speaks for me
>>1823508>>you dont speak for everyone.>But you do?i speak as someone from the neighborhood and someone who uses the bus
>>1823673When you move out you can get an apartment right next to a bus stop
>>1823428Rise and Shine sounds like a better breakfast anyway honestly
So what are /n/ US cities? I cant' find many without these suburban hellscapes covering 9/10 of the area. Other than the obvious NYC+boston+seattle.
>>1826405Philly and DC are pretty /n/. Philly has connection to NJ Transit which is the most /n/ state. DC has the streetcar; heavy rail, grade separated metro second in ridership to the NYC subway; buses covering 1,500 sq. miles with 11k stops; water taxi service connecting two states and state equivalent; commuter rail that extends nearly 50 miles north and south of downtown DC; and three major airports all connected by some combination of bus and rail. The only problem with all this /n/ is that it is geared for commuters so the off-peak service is shit or on tourist schedules with low frequencies.
>>1821676>Cars are also heavier, making them less fuel efficient,Average car specific fuel efficiency is the highest it has ever been. Cars are getting the same or better efficiency with more than twice the peak power.
>>1826415Yeah, now imagine what sorta fuel economy cars could get if they still weighed as much or had as much power as in the 90s.
>>1826418Having less power doesn't mean improved fuel economy, if that's what you're trying to say
>>1826415And yet, that efficiency disappears into the aether as 200 pages of asinine CAFE cross-section bullshit turns every car into a pigfat SUV exerting more wear on decaying roads.
>>1826485>>1826418The midsize and larger SUVs weight about the same as the land yachts of the 1960s, and they get double or triple the fuel mileage.
>>1826485>SUV exerting more wear on decaying roads.Most SUVs on the roads are small & crossover types and in many instances weigh less than sedans:- 2023 Mercedes Benz E class curb weight: 3,781 to 4,566 lbs- 2022 Honda CR-V curb weight: 3,337 to 3,569 lbsYou're just jealous of what you don't have. Back to numtot, loser
>>1826410I disagree that NJ is /n/. Plus immediately outside philly is the national treasure that is camden.
>>1823440You could allow walking paths through but not roads.It's common in British suburbs to have dead ends for cars but a cut-through path for pedestrians and cyclists.
>>1826415Meanwhile most cars in europe are getting 60+ mpg as they're not 3 ton trucks
>>1821367we dont ban imports like you do
>>1826723>Meanwhile most cars in europe are getting 60+ mpg as they're not 3 ton trucksThey are using diesel, they are 1 L shitboxes, and the UK gallon is 5 US quarts.
>>1817096>self-flagellatinganon, I'm not a car-dependent suburb..
>>1821341>Northeastern suburbs are very differentlol. lmao.>captcha: KX JAWN
>>1827360>>1821341literally 2 seconds into new jersey lmao
>>1827361I grew up in NJ in a place that looks like this. I hated driving so my life was horrible. Most people in NJ spend 4 hours a day commuting in their car to their job. I knew that lifestyle wasn't for me. Life there revolves around the mcmansion and the shopping mall, connected by car, and most of the scenery is the highway. I hate single family housing so much. Suburban faggots try to cope that it's somehow "living in nature" because they have a sterile grass lawn. The suburb actually destroys the nature. It destroys the forest, the farm, and the orchard, and replaces it with asphault labyrinths and plywood mcmansions. The only interest of people there is hoity-toity consooming of the top end of what the mall sells. There is nothing to do and nowhere to go. You can't even reasonably get to the city (either NYC or philly) to have a day because there is no transit there and parking is a nightmare. at best you can do a park and ride, which still blows ass. Everyone drinks and drives, by the way. Look at that, what else would they do? It's not like they walk home from the bar and they for sure as hell don't just not drink. The kids are miserable because they can't go anywhere without mommy taxi. It's just bloody fucking miserable. Literally the only place available to go to and hang out with friends is the fucking shopping mall.
>>1827385I have heard this nearly verbatim dozens of times and not once have I ever thought that it's anything but a manifestation of the poster's own self-loathing and resentfulness.
Walking is for poor people.
>>1827388Not him, but I grew up in Levittown, PA, one of the original suburbs.I love the place and how nice a lot of the neighborhoods feel, but outside of it I've always felt it could be improved. For example, as a kid was always annoying to me that the closest grocery was literally 1.5 miles away over a couple main roads and took an hour round trip just by walking. Would've been pretty convenient to have a small store in the neighborhood itself for basic goods. Another thing are the retarded zoning regulations which, in an attempt to prevent any housing from being converted into duplexes or triplexes, required there only be one kitchen per house. It'd be a good source of income to rent out a portion of your home + makes it easy for kids just getting out to find a place to live.Thought it'd also be better if sidewalks included street trees maintained by the townships instead of it being left to homeowners. Insurance companies and predatory "tree services" tend to like those things cut down and butchered.My drift into urbanism came moreso from those little observations on how to improve my own suburban environment over how it is currently is. I always thought it would be cool to see Levittown developed into a pleasant, more bustling town full of people I know. It'd make those walks around the neighborhood all the nicer.
>>1827406You can move into communities like that right now, which is much easier than trying to convince everyone to completely upend their own communities
>>1827409Why are you bent on preventing a suburb you don't even live in from ideas for how to improve it by someone who has lived there his entire life?You in no way have any connection to the people you now suddenly care about being "upended" because I think zoning where I live should be less restrictive.Sounds kinda gay to have such a hard-on for a mode of town planning that you simp for its existence everywhere.
>>1827415You presume it needs "improving," and that most people would agree on what an "improvement" is. Most people just want to be left alone.>You in no way have any connection to the people you now suddenly care about being "upended" because I think zoning where I live should be less restrictive.You brought it up and then are upset when anyone challenges your ideas. Typical /n/ mindset.>Sounds kinda gay to have such a hard-on for a mode of town planning you simp for its existence anywhere.There's a reason it's ubiquitous. And there are urbanized communities with transit you can live in right now if you don't fancy living in a suburb. Ultimately you think you have correct ideas and everyone who doesn't agree with you is incorrect, and they need to be corrected. It's that simple in your mind.
>>1827424If zoning is partially unrestricted, let's say to allow part of the property to be converted into a commercial business or multiple residences, who is being upended? Are you against the freedom for a property owner to do with their property what they want?
>>1827430>who is being upended?People who moved there so they don't have to live right next to commercial real estate and duplexes. So again, you can move somewhere that's more in line with your own wants and ideals, or just keep complaining while most of your neighbors ignore you.>Are you against the freedom for a property owner to do with their property what they want?You're free to move to an area with zoning that you like (or that doesn't have zoning at all).
>Sounds kinda gay to have such a hard-on for a mode of town planning that you simp for its existence everywhere.That’s what 90% of posts on /n/ these days are about (the rest are about planes, trains and bikes)
>>1827437>People who moved there so they don't have to live right next to commercial real estate and duplexes....Okay?The entire crux of your argument here isn't based on whether if the zoning change or really any change to the community I live in is good or not for the community, but on a fatalistic assumption that it's futile to advocate for their existence entirely ever. The absurd part is you're trying to speak for a lower-middle class community on the NEC I've lived in all my life as if your NIMBYism is a universal constant, when zoning has already been changed around here from time to time. For example, the location of an old disused school in the middle of one of the neighborhood sections was rezoned to build a set of affordable apartments not too long ago.
>>1827442One of the r/fuckcars redditors is a janny now. He banned 90s mtb generals for months too because they wouldn’t bend the knee to reddit
>>1827446If you don't want anyone to challenge your views may I recommend numtot
>>1827455>If you don't want anyone to challenge your viewsThe only challenge to "my views" for what I'd like to see in my own town from you has been to fatalistically tell me to not even try advocating for them and to move somewhere else. What isn't challenging is to see you took it personally that I wanted change-- change which has some precedent here-- to my suburban community which I love. A suburban community where you don't even live.Why?
>>1827472>Only I'm allowed to talk about my communityTough shit buddy
>>1827493I accept your concession that you had nothing worthwhile to say.
>>1827526Don't care
>Americans wonder why they're fat>Literally refuse to walk more than 2 minutes a day>Actually get mad at people who try>Claims it's niggers fault>Mad at the concept of public transport despite their country having it in the past and being vital to development>Fine with a 20 minute drive to pick up bread>Becomes angry at the sight of a townhouse or small apartment complex>Can't conceptualize the benefit of mixed zone laws>Ignores or Copes over the map that shows central NYC makes less CO2 than his small town (because everyone in NYC walks)>Defends his F-150 because once every couple months he has to carry firewood (despite electric heaters existing and being superior in every way)>Can't understand why anyone would want to ride or drive anything smaller than a glorified monster truck
>>1827534>nooooooo we aren’t fat we just can’t stand for 10 minutes in Arizona without sweatingYou are FAT
>>1827534>>1827536I live in the midatlantic where we got incredibly humid summers and a couple years back I took a July camping trip to Arizona. Honestly didn't feel that hot, I have no clue why anyone would break any more of a sweat without the humidity.
>>1827534>"People should live how I think they should live">Gets asspained when no one takes them seriouslyPottery
>>1827552I have to be a huge pain in the fucking ass because I'm going up against property developers and car companies who have a billion brain washed cattle nigger like you.
>>1827556I used to think pretty similarly to you.
>>1827574I use to think like you as well.
>>1827590One day you'll graduate
>>1823651yeah but now i'm fat
>>1827552>People should live how I think they should livethe irony
>>1817079This planning also allows law enforcement to easily restrict movement in and out of the area when SHTF situations develop.
>>1817062I've lived in mobile.None of that is planned at all.Over the years they just let shit develop however it worked out with no advance planning. Lot's of southern states are like this. Most roads/streets were just made from cowpaths, deer trails, and random meanderings. It wasn't until the late 50s/early 60s that any form of municipal planning took root.
>>1827552Lmao just let individual communities decide on zoning laws. Right now 70% of all land in American cities BAN anything that isn't single family residential zoning. I don't have the freedom to build what I want on my own land.
>>1817090i like being able to let my kids play outside without homeless waking though the neighborhood or cars barreling down the street. if you don't like it, go live somewhere else.
>>1829242>Lmao just let individual communities decide on zoning laws.That's how it works now. Still a lot of places with no zoning at all.>Right now 70% of all land in American cities BAN anything that isn't single family residential zoning.Where did you pull that from
>>1820126Joggers killed streetcars. This used to be a large streetcar suburb, then drugs hit. Now it's full of yuppies, and the city is putting the streetcar back. It'll happen again tho.
>>1817112>you have to spend 3 hours strategizing a plan of attack and scouting the terrain by satellite to take a walk in america without being murdered by a carincredible.
>>1818542I don't know why we don't turn every highway into a rail line and put bike racks at every exit. It would sure lower the obesity rate quite a bit.
>>1829393We should have a tram in each town, connecting to a HSR line towards the main city nearby. Just imagine this town with a dedicated railway for trams, with bike racks and dedicated bike lanes on every street.
>>1828311>goes to hardeesI think that's the bigger contributor
>>1826895>they are 1 L shitboxes,someone above just said "Having less power doesn't mean improved fuel economy, "
>>1829470If you replace the main road with a streetcar and the stroadway with light rail, you wouldn't even need to bulldoze that bullshit.
I'm not even kidding when I say cagers should be rounded up and killed because of the detrimental effects they have had on society. Why do i need to own an expensive polluting piece of shit that kills thousands of people a year and pollutes our atmosphere and makes us fat and lazy. Because riding a train is too inconvenient for fat ass boomers who can't walk more than 30 steps from their front door to their pickup truck.
>>1829835ThisI shouldn't be forced to buy a $20,000 cage just because boomers are fat and entitled and ripped out all our public transportation to force everyone else to be as fat and wasteful as they are.
>>1829835I was curious today so I sat by a traffic signal to count the cars and their occupants passing through. Like no shit 9/10 cars were single occupant, the driver and the only other time there was more than a single occupant in a vehicle were taxi cabs. If "The Great Filter" is real, I think this is it. No society that prioritizes such an inefficient mode of transport that is so destructive deserves to move beyond their own planet. It's not even just environmentally damaging, it also enables car subsidizing tax corruption, big oil, class separation, the dehumanizing aspect of driving and false sense of security, mental illness causing, everything.This planet is doomed thanks to selfish idiots and the automobile.
>>1829843You're not. You're free to move to a location where public transportation suits your needs.>>1829845>It's inefficient>Obviously I get to define what is and is not efficient
>>1829849i hope you run your cage off a bridge and drown in your own fluids
>>1829849>meanwhile the bicycle's drivetrain efficiency is about 98%
>>1829849How about I change where I live for the better and cagies can fuck off to the everywhere else where they're catered to if they want lol
>>1829852I don't care. I'm not riding a bike anywhere.>>1829854Same result as complaining on here: you and a handful of others on the fringe screaming into the void
>>1830005>I'm not riding a bike anywhere.Pussy
Honestly that route is kind of weird. Id just walk by the levy, cut through the college, walk through the neighborhood, cut across to the creek by the Zaxbys. Worst part is the walk on 98. The rest isnt that bad. But dear god that interchange for 98 and 65 is a cluster fuck.
>>1817062This is just google maps being retarded. There's a highway on ramp less than a hndred feet from the hotel and an off ramp maybe five hundred feet from the hardees.
>>1817073This one is fucked up because google maps doesn't suggest routes along frontage roads.
>>1817078This is specifically to keep traffic out. All of those houses are conveniently close to the highway, and that's all the owners want. That layout is a selling point.>>1823428Same here. 80% of the drivers in vegas are drunk, the other 20% are repeat felons who steal shit. These people don't want outsiders to be able to cruise past their houses.>>1827360These are normal city blocks, they're just squished so that the streets look shady and intimate, this is actually basically what a euro city looks like from above except that everything is wider.>>1827361Notice how everything here radiates out from central hubs that connect main thoroughfares so that everyone is near a high speed road without having a 45 mile an hour zone right in front of their house.>>1829470It would look pretty much the same. Cablecar suburbs started the whole planned suburb trend, with modern faster trams with enclosed cabs and heating you would have the same amount of sprawl and most people still wouldn't want to bike to work if given the choice.You people are just idiots who don't know how to read maps and believe that you're being gangstalked by general motors.
>>1821367>Lol why are american SUVs even purchaseable in euYeah i know right! i resent my government for giving me so much damn freedom.. it really sucks! Hopefully things will get better this winter, i just love mask whether!
imagine living in China.. i mean Europe
>>1817090In what way is having less traffic in my neighborhood bad for “the community as a whole”?
>>1817090>the public goodgen pop mindset
>>1834442>Freedom is buying a massively depreciating asset.Absolute burger here.
>>1834501He's right actually. The "freedom" that Americans in particular have, is the ability to badly mismanage resources and risk for no tangible benefit. They do not have any other type of actual freedom compared to other first world countries.
>>1832690>walking across a highway on rampgreat idea bro so much better.
>>1826722this is also common in the US
>>1827534>getting this mad at something you created in your headlol. lmao
>>1834514right, sorry we don't have the "freedom" of being able to pay 40% in taxes for our government to import somalis into the country
>>1834594>Ha stupid Europoors paying 40% in taxes>Unlike me, who only has to pay 12%>And my 6.2% social security tax>Can't forget the 1.4% medicare tax>And my 10% state tax>Can't forget the 14% of my wage I'm spending on the health insurance my government isn't giving me>Or the 25% of my wage going for the car I need to own to survive here>Those Europoors are so stupid.
>>1834594right, thankfully you only pay 39% in taxes to import mexicans and pajeets
>>1834501freedom to make bad decisions is freedom.. enjoy your 4th booster
>>1834514>is the ability to badly mismanage resources and risk for no tangible benefitthe problem with your line of thinking is that there are hidden benefits (to individual agency) that you're not able to perceive .. this is the folly of utilitarianism dont get me wrong though, America is a socialist hellhole but its less so https://www.dw.com/en/german-efficiency-the-roots-of-a-stereotype/a-56976234>The book shows how efficient behavior was incentivized and rewarded within the large Nazi bureaucracy, often on a direct and informal basis
>>1817078>I HAVE TO HAVE ANY SURFACE I WALK ALONG BE PAVED BY SOMEONE ELSEI guarantee you there's a footpath there
>>1817229>>when shitburbia housing is the only thing anyone can affordMost of those HOAs are in decent to very nice neighborhoods. If you want a cheap home where nobody cares if you toss old appliances in your un-mowed lawn you can just go live in a trailer park.
I used to live downtown, walking distance from work and everything. No point for me to even have a car. But it was really miserable. There was always music and noise outside. it was always so fucking loud. Too many people. I later moved to the suburb and I prefer it because its much quieter
>>1836023Anecdotal but I know someone in a HOA that allows (actually encourages) wildflowers and native flora rather than just shitty grass and it's a fairly nice development, at least compared to the kinds of shit holes you read about on the internet where the home owner was murdered by the local SWAT team for failing to maintain his kentucky bluegrass patch at the regulation length and applying at least 4 metric tons of glyphosate per year. So I would say that your definition of "very nice" is probably true relative to a cluster of methamphetamine trailers in the florida panhandle but that's not saying much...
>>1817078Am I fucked if I go to an American College for Urban Design? Are they just gonna teach me to build highways through black neighborhoods and have railroads go around cities?
>>1836106No it's liberal indoctrination USA so you'll be fine in that regard, but you will invariably get points deducted on research papers for being ESL.
>>1836109but at least girls like foreign guys right? right...?
>>1818763the example i posted is near as bad but allllllll over vegas. a mile walk to go to a resturaunt 150 feet away
>>1836106They're going to teach you how asphalt is a symbol of the patriarchy and white supremacy
>>1819400based and mainstreet pilled
>>1818280You can't walk there because there's no sidewalk, there's no sidewalk because its designed to be driven thereFIXED
>>1834571anon i think he meant you get on a car...
>>1817325gated [adj.] - being a residential neighborhood protected by gates, walls, guards, or other security measures: a gated community.these security measures can be as little as the design of the roads being labyrinthine since that would stop most people from using the neighborhood as a thoroughfare. When people talk about gated communities, they tend to include communities that are out of the way of non-residential traffic, and there's no real fault in that thinking since being out of the way is half of the battle for the isolation these communities want
Foreigners can't even decide if a gate is a critical component of a gated community
>>1837230the OP post is about the difficulty of walking that route.
>>1834445America has the highest CCTV per capita, don't be so quick to say anything
