>nsw getting all the cool projects again
This needs to stop.
https://www.alp.org.au/policies/fast-rail-between-sydney-and-the-hunter

We already had state funding for Perth's metro rail expansion so the difference is that now I'm a bit less worried that half of it will get cancelled. New carriageworks opened recently. Rest in peace carpeted trains.

CROSS RIVER RAIL
R
O
S
S

R
I
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R

R
A
I
L

>>1803346
the LNP FINALLY locked in some funding for the sunshine coast line in a desperate attempt to retain government so that's nice (I mean they retained all their QLD seats (minus ryan and brisbane) but still lost the election lol)
IIRC Albanese said he'd also put funding toward the springfield/ipswich link and the beaudesert line, which doesn't really solve the problem of shit connectivity in the inner city but whatever
I'm hoping that he puts more money into the gold coast light rail and airport rail heavy link as well as lobbying the BCC to run a rail link down the north-west transport corridor since the council is run by the LNP and they're all lazy stingy cunts so hopefully with a bit of extra cha-ching from the feds they'll be more inclined to build something more robust than ANOTHER highway with some dedicated bus lanes
>>1803926
cross river rail is already paid for

>>1803346
albo committed 2 billion to the suburban rail loop right? It's not much considering it's a 50 billion project i guess but it's going to take decades to complete in stages though so the feds can just dole out money with each stage
How's the melbourne metro coming along? Anything on melbourne metro 2 or is it just a spectre haunting the halls of infrastructure australia?
>>1803518
the east coast rail has to start somewhere and Sydney is probably the best place to start it IMO

Ok but why can’t I get a train from Townsville to Noosa

>>1803930
Yeah 2 billion is just a drop in the water. Obviously it's risky to commit a large amount in this fucked economy.
Melbourne metro is coming along well, somehow it's a year ahead of schedule. Metro 2 is only being talked about at this stage.

Hey WA-bros, when the fuck is the airport redcliffe line opening? Wasn't it supposed to be completed at the end of last year? when the fuck is it opening?
>>1803978
I think that they used the covid lockdown as an opportunity to fast-track development since due to stay at home orders and reduced use of public transit they could make big adjustments to the existing track without huge delays and impacts to commuters, smart way to make the best of a bad situation

>>1803346
They are going to build some ultra long range VLocity sets to run Melbourne-Brisbane when Inland Rail is completed.

HSR when?

Ok that’s FINE, but I still can’t get a train from Townsville to Noosa.

>>1804672
When are the Chinese scheduled to take over?

>>1804672
albanese said he wanted to work with the NSW government to build a high speed rail from Sydney to Newcastle which would probably be the first step in the east coast HSR

>>1804658
Lol based 20 hour trips going through the middle of nowhere

Ok, how about my train from Townsville to Noosa?

>>1804757
Carriages with refreshment facilities will be available from 2036.

>>1804758
How about Townsville to Mount Isa?

>>1804760
Will alcohol be served?

>>1804761
Yeah this too desu. North Queensland gets rejected but shit northwest would kill for what scraps we get, then the federal government wonders why they can’t find teachers and nurses and have to pay teachers $85/h to retain them

>>1804765
It's V/Line, so BYOB is encouraged.

>>1803518
>An Albanese Labor Government will make fast rail connections between Sydney, the Central Coast and Newcastle a reality by assigning top priority to this project for the new High-Speed Rail Authority.
>assigning top priority
They've been talking about this for years, it's definitely not happening any time soon

Ok, I’m at Townsville Central station. Which platform do I catch the train for Noosa?

>>1805394
iirc the NSW government was planning their own HSR between sydney and newcastle, albanese just wants to get on top of it to:
a) make sure we don't end up with another colony era rail gauge fiasco where none of the HSR lines are compatible with each other for future expansion between metropols
b) reap the political clout of "being the PM who laid the first piece of track for high speed rail in australia!!!1!!1!!!!1!!!11!"

SRL construction officially began yesterday.

https://infrastructuremagazine.com.au/2022/06/02/construction-begins-on-victorias-suburban-rail-loop/

>>1805448
Did you ask someone at the desk?

>>1807452
I asked the thread? Multiple times?

>>1807454
lmao. Have you tried speaking to the other real human beings at the train station?

>>1807274
wtf that was quick, i thought they weren't going to start digging tunnels until 2028 or something
good to see them going ahead with this though, I'm so tired of this mentality of "we can only start a new rail infrastructure project after the one we're currently working on is finished!"
If we can build multiple highways at the same time i'm sure there's no reason we can't do the same for rail

>Sydney and Melbourne already starting on Metro west and SRL while Brisbane is doing fuck all except a study into the Caloundra rail branch and maybe a study into the ipswich springfield rail loop and the Beaudesert branch
feels bad man

>>1804700
For security concerns, CRRC will bid but probably won't be successful.

However, we already have a HK-affiliated corporation running many of Australia's networks (MTR). Back in 2019 they garnered a bad rep for shutting down the stations and networks just to make it easier for the cops to catch and beat protestors.

Ok sure I’ll bite - how do I get a train from Townsville to Noosa?

>>1803346
>2025 to extend tourist tram. That will never be any good for commuting.
>Every single train station is at the edge of a suburb. And there's no additional zoning to make those areas useful.
>Traffic lights around here are shittily programmed.

>>1810022
Which city?

>>1810017
Why would you be in Townsville?

>>1810452
To catch my train to Noosa

>>1810454
You don't want to be in Townsville for that.

>>1810467
I live here

>>1810469
Why would you be doing that?

>>1810439
Goldy

>>1810475
Required to for a job which I’m required to do for legal reasons I can’t get into. But I have a race in Noosa in July and don’t want to fly.

>>1810886
It's easier to get to Noosa if you aren't in Townsville.

>>1810881
tbf the "tourist tram" is just laying the backbone for the rest of the network, when you're in a city of 600k with literally zero rail infrastructure (outside the gold coast line) you kind of need to start somewhere so it makes sense to do the "tourist" line first through the highest density areas then expand from there. I'm optimistic about the greater gold coast light rail network, it looks somewhat extensive for a city that was designed entirely around car travel
The main problem with the GC is that since it's so urbanized and built around car traffic you can't really build any rail through it without spending billions on underground tunnelling (not financially viable for a city of 600,000), supplementing heavy rail corridors for light rail or running heavy rail down existing transport corridors on the edge of suburbia and building park and rides to make it easier for people to get to them
That being said I would like the QLD government to hurry up and fast track those new stations on the gold coast line and the extension to the gold coast airport, especially if they want to interlink the light rail network with the heavy rail network

>>1810886
just fly you queer
the alternative is catch the train from Townsville to Brisbane, then catch the train to caboolture, then a bus to Maroochydore followed by an uber/taxi to Noosa

>>1811462
Yeah I reckon I’m going to have to fly at least to brissy. Then take the train up. Concerned at having to break the bike down to go in the bike bag and then build up, race, break down, get back t9 townsville in time for work.

>>1811465
just pay $50 for oversized cargo and put it in a bike box
alternatively you can probably get a hire car at the airport

>>1810894
Oh that’s smart yeah I’ll move to go to a race once a year a bit easier

>>1811612
Book early for the hire car. Between border closures and inflated second-hand prices rental fleets are smaller than ever.

>>1811458
The good thing with the gc road planning is that they've generally left a decent amount of extra space on main roads.
Aside from losing turning lanes, there's a decent amount of space for tram lines.
For the most part traffic isn't that bad here so there's not much incentive to improve it.

>>1811781
I wouldn’t hire a car, I’d just drive my SS down with the bike in the back if I were to drive at all.

>all sorts of exciting projects on the east coast
>meanwhile in Adelaide we finally reopened one of our major rail lines after having shut it down for over a year and a half to electrify it
>after having originally proposed the project nearly 15 years ago
Being a South Australian train fan is suffering

>>1812561
didn't Weatherill want to build adelink before Marshall swooped in and killed it off?
Do you reckon Malinauskas will bring any infrastructure projects to the table (or at least revive adelink)?

>>1812562
I could potentially see a limited revival of Adelink, both Labor and Liberal governments want to increase the density of the inner suburbs and that's not going to happen in a functional manner without the tram network expanding to meet demand. I just hope the Outer Harbour lightrail conversion part of the plan is dropped once and for all though, it's a stupid idea. Get rid of all the rail stations between Woodville and the city, build a tram up the centre of Port Road that continues on to West Lakes. Maybe Grange as well.

>>1810894
>want to be somewhere else? live there.
Excellent parody of Australian transportation authorities

>>1812563
Yeah i have no idea why they want to do that, it seems like such a stupid idea, why downgrade the line in both capacity and speed?
I also hope that the Adelaide underground loop is picked up again for a study at the very least seeing Adelaide is the only city at this point with a central station terminus, or even if they can't do that a loop for the light rail in the city
On another note, what would you guys think about converting the O-bahn to a rail loop and tunnelling below the CBD to connect it to Adelaide station? You could run one of the other lines as a through line instead of just terminating at Adelaide station as well as adding some more stations along the route for better coverage. I mean the o-bahn is a neat novelty but it only really stops in 3 places

>>1812571
>Obahn
I don't think the Obahn can be converted to heavy rail, the gradients up that way aren't appropriate for it. Now that we're slowly bringing the tram back though I reckon the Obahn will be rebuilt as a tram line once it reaches the end of its functional life. Trams can definitely work up there.

It wasn't originally built as light rail because back then our tram line was pretty much just a tourist attraction that terminated in the middle of Victoria Square, the idea of rebuilding all the tram lines was seen as a bit kooky in the 70's and 80's.

>Underground loop
I think a loop could be built and that Adelaide Station could be changed from a terminus to being part of the loop. It'd cost an absolutely fortune but I'd dig out the entire train hall (if you can really call it a hall, lol), dig it down a level or two. There's enough of a leadup to the station from the triangle by the old gaol that everything would nicely and neatly go down quite deep by time you reach the station. The train hall would now be an actual hall which would have the bonus of making it not feel so claustrophobic in there, and you could then dig under the station and build your loop round the CBD.

I've massively oversimplified my idea, it'd require a lot of jiggering around of existing rail lines to get them all hooked up properly to the loop, but it could be done. It's just a question of political will and, more importantly, money. Sadly due to the latter it'd probably never happen, not in our lifetime anyway.

>>1812573
It's been a while since i rode the o-bahn but i don't remember it being that steep, but you're right it'd probably be easier and cheaper to convert it to light rail desu. Either way it needs a LOT more stations and stops, seriously, how can you have only a single transport corridor to service 1/4 of your city that only has three stops???

Yeah i can see money being a holdup for the underground loop desu but I wouldn't say "never ever". I think the lack of electrification to 1/2 your network is probably a bigger holdback to a city loop than funding desu

>>1812576
>Yeah i can see money being a holdup for the underground loop desu but I wouldn't say "never ever". I think the lack of electrification to 1/2 your network is probably a bigger holdback to a city loop than funding desu
One begets the other. State governments never have the cash to commit to big infrastructure projects by themselves and federal governments are averse to spending big bucks in Adelaide, when that money could secure far more votes and influence when spent out east. That said, our own population's inherent NIMBYism is also partly to blame.

At the end of the day, Adelaide's just a giant pain in the fucking arse to build decent public transport for. The CBD is in a stupid place, in the middle of a narrow plain bounded by the Hills to the east and sea to the West. It constrains everything and forces it all to go north-south, so the traditional spiderweb type of suburban network just can't happen.

If I had a time machine I'd slap Colonel Light in the face and tell him to make Port Adelaide the main settlement.

>>1812577
We have the same problem up here in Brisbane desu
hemmed in by the mountains to the west and sea to the east so we're quite possibly the sprawliest city in the entire country
I wouldn't be surprised if in 30 years the Sunshine Coast, Brisbane and Gold coast all converge into one abomination of a megacity with zero network coverage

Here in NZ, a lot of people vehemently oppose cycle investment.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/opinion/heather-du-plessis-allan-waka-kotahi-needs-to-stop-overengineering-cycleways/#:~:text=Frankly%2C%20the%20people,that%20a%20cycleway.
This is exactly the kind of attitude you find among most boomer types, and this kind of narrative is constantly peddled on the talkies and Facebook.
As much as I want to cycle everywhere, it's simply too dangerous, people will drive dangerously around you and are generally impatient.

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>>1812604
They stopped bike lanes being built in Melbourne CBD and inner suburbs recently, because of apparent "concerned citizens". Yeah bullshit, more like lobbies. Like a fucking council consisting of majority greens voters are going to want to block bike lanes from being built, give me a fucking break.

>>1812578
>30 years
what makes you think its going to take that long.
also there's people who fucking commute to goldy from brissy which is wtf.

>>1812926
>motorists get fined if they don’t give you three metres of space
>still demand more
That’s why you don’t give the rat a crumb

>>1813128
why are you on this board

>>1813324
I have nowhere else to go.

>>1813324
This isn’t a cycling board, you already have /lgbt/ for that

>>1813454
>this isn't a cycling board
so 2/3 of the catalog is just invalid? am I missing something?

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Hate that faggot rate my scooter and bike transporter

>>1814168
>this is the guy saying cyclists are too poor to drive

>>1814190
>this is the guy saying cyclists are too poor to drive
Sorry I don't have a 10k carbon fibre faggit bike

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What's the likelyhood of this happening?

>>1815348
What's the reason for this? I can't even see a reason for freight purposes, unless they want to get shit to the port of darwin (达尔文港) for some reason

>>1815569
>can’t live in the regions because no transport
>no transport because no cunt lives there
Tough problem desu someone’s gotta go first. That plus the Isa is basically a mine with a town attached, more rail is good.

>>1815348
When will Australians build a coastal HSR?

>>1815575
See: >>1804700

>>1815577
Based

>>1815574
Ridership between two low population centres isn't feasible. It's not going to make anyone move there either because they're both shitholes.

In Adelaide this weekend
The Glenelg tram is cool but i feel like the stations are too close together for the tram to get any reasonable speed before it has to start slowing down again. What could easily be a 15 minute trip is instead turned into a 40 minute trip, what's even the point?
At the very least it's nice it has ROW though, I can't imagine how AIDS it would be if you had to share traffic with cars the entire way like a suburban Melbourne tram, ew

>>1815971
>ridership
its going to be freight trains retard

>>1817769
>interacting with melburnites

>>1817769
the guy before implied people were going to use the train for travel, even though I said freight.

>>1817773
What did you think the comment about the mine meant lad? A new age of TITO work? Lol

>>1817031
>At the very least it's nice it has ROW though
That's because it used to be a trainline until 1929. They didn't want to pay access fees to SAR to get into Adelaide Station, so they just built a train line through suburbia, over the main SAR lines (hence the bridge at Goodwood) and then straight up the middle of King William Street in the CBD.

>>1817786
Yeah but even on the separated section the stations are still way too close for the tram to build up any meaningful speed before it has to slow down and stop again, it really shouldn't take 20 minutes to get from green hill road station to Brighton road station considering the tram has ROW the entire route (even at the level crossings)
You could probably halve the number of stations and shuffle them about and you'd still get decent coverage while being able to reduce the travel time to 10 minutes on that section of the track

>>1818661
also just get rid of Morphett road station and make Morphett racecourse the main station, having those two stations so close to each other is completely redundant especially considering the inbound and outbound stations on Morphett road are diagonal to each other

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>>1812604
That's because the cycle lanes take up a disproportionally large amount of roadspace, encroaching on road space that could be used for higher capacity forms of transportation. A double deck bus can carry over a hundred people. Two double deck busses can carry more people than would likely use most cycle lanes in a day. But this huge cycle lane has to be there making it a cunt to get the bus thru and slowing it down. Fuck that.

On the topic of Adelaide btw I had an idea
With the port Adelaide spur line being built what if instead of converting the entire outer harbour line to light rail the outer harbour line is truncated to port Adelaide instead, then convert the current port Adelaide to outer harbour section to light rail and run it down the median strip down commercial and port road to connect it to the existing entertainment centre light rail station
That way you can expand coverage and capacity without having to reduce services
Not sure what to do with the Grange branch though, I can't imagine ridership is incredibly high so light rail conversion would probably be suitable, but for Christ's sake someone needs to grab some trench shovels and submerge the section that runs through the Royal Adelaide golf club already

>>1818665
>convert the current port Adelaide to outer harbour section to light rail
>spend an absolute fortune converting heavy rail to light rail so that the disgusting feral gronks who live in Taperoo AKA Davoren Park-on-Sea can continue to spill over into neighboring suburbs stealing everything that isn't nailed down
No thanks

If I had it my way the entire peninsula would be sawn off north of Largs and pushed out to sea. Although maybe building a fancy light rail system that extends out to Semaphore and West Lakes and so on would push up property values enough to push the vermin out.

>>1818675
it's not like they can't already move around on the existing heavy outer harbour line

>>1818676
The point of building light rail would be to expand it and give it more coverage than just the single heavy rail line. Hence the danger of the ferals spreading.

>>1818664
or you can have both

>>1818689
That would be great, if not for the fucked up arrangement of protecting the cycle lane behind parked cars, which renders the actual carrigeway all of 2.8m wide in each direction. Two heavy vehicles can't pass in that space without slowing down to a crawl.

If the parked cars were pushed to the kerb, and the cycle lane put between the parked cars and the car/bus lane and separated with a rumble strip, low plastic dividers or something similar, busses/trucks/whatever would be able to pass each other easily and you still have just as much space in the cycle lane.

Which platform is the train from Townsville to Noosa?

>>1818696
street parking ruining everything for everyone as usual

>>1818702
It's a real hangover from shit public transport days, but you can't take it away - it's infrastructure that ratepayers pay for and expect to have use of.

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>>1803346
What do we think of the coom connector?
I dont understand the point of it

>>1820061
Yeah I don't get it either, what's the benefit of this? I'm not from QLD so maybe I'm missing something?

>>1820061
I think it's just a way to get people travelling between the gold coast to southern Brisbane off the M1 and providing a transport corridor for areas with future urban growth. It's fine I guess. Wish the QLD govt. would put half as much effort into rail infrastructure as they do into new highways though

The Tasman Bridge just had plans for its expansion released :)

>>1820114
The area is going to fill up with people too poor for the Goldy or Brisbane. Since the cockroaches from the south have priced the the locals out.
If you go on google maps you'll see that they generally have small backyards to fit more houses closer together.

>>1821068
A bridge across the Tasman? Fuck I can't wait!

>>1821431
Kek. You can't stop the melbournite menace

>>1823220
?

>>1821068
What would be nice is if they could not destroy all those houses on the Southern Outlet and instead actually address the Macquarie Street problem.

Looking to do something incredibly simple. Get on a train in Townsville, capital of North Queensland, and get off that train in Noosa, a hugely popular tourist destination.

>>1823272
1. call up queensland rail and ask about it
2. go to the Townsville train station and get help
3. give up and catch a flight retard

>>1823272
jump on the tracks and lie there and wait for the train

>>1823272
Train hop freight trains

>>1823327
>>1823687
>>1823706
>rail travel between two metropolitan areas? you maniac!

>>1823707
if you have an issue complain to your local state or federal MP (federal is probably better because the libs will use any excuse they can to dunk on state labor even if it's something they emphatically disagree with ideologically like "commuter rail")

*bumps&
In new zealand for ski season
sadly not going to wellington or auckland, I would have liked to have seen what their rail network was like
Not much public transport around here in Queenstown, the (public) busses to the ski resorts look cool though

>>1823272
right faggot, book a trip on the Spirit of Queensland train and get them to stop at Cooroy Station. Simple as cunt.

Why does Sydney have a full underground system and we have only a few stations despite having more people in Melbourne, oh we're also in more debt cos Andrews. I get a new car soon and looking forward to awkwardly trying to pick up 30s girls while hiking

Nothing gets built in Aus unless the business case stacks up, we don't just do it to help people. That's why extending two stations past Watergardens to Sunbury took literally 40 years. it's shitty, backward way of doing things but Australia's been like this my whole life and I am 40. Possibly when the Harbour bridge was made and the ocean road was made we did things just because, but not anymore.

>>1829569
>16h journey
Fucking lol. At least it’s only two hundred dollars right.

>Youtuber OZ cycle has been jailed for 18 months for killing his neighbour's dog. The Animal welfare officer described it as one of the "worst incidents he's come across."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-05/steven-john-leffanue-jailed-over-killing-neighbours-dog/101209462

jeez how many people have autism/aspergers? hambini, durianrider, elon musk, mark zuckerberg, vladimir putin. jeff bezos is awkward too. it's hard for me to tell if someone has fully adequate social skills, how emotive you're supposed to be with your facial expressions and body language, if someone is a weirdo or just has a unique personality, and what kind of self-image i should have as to whether i'm capable of participating in society or if i should be a recluse because of my 'tism. trace velo might be on the spectrum with his unusually animated gesticulations and goofy humor? some high profile youtubers are highly sus too like anton petrov or sabine hossenfelder. maybe tim pool and ben shapiro too.

>>1830434
Wdym, the city circles in Sydney and Melbourne have the same number of stations

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>>1823239
The Tasman Bridge goes across the Derwent River, mainlander.

Is the Pedal Hawk Hybrid from 99bikes any good? Looking for a bike that's good for hills and general going about the place, mainly on concrete and roads.

So I flew to Brisbane. The train to Noosa is 4 fucking hours even from here and is still a 20km bike ride away from Noosa. This country sucks

>>1832586
want to come to the arcade in brisbane bro

>>1832587
Damn I actually hired a car and already left. I’m at the big pineapple now. I’m back tomorrow

>>1832586
you would've lost your bike at caboolture

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A teaser for expansions on the SEQ rail network just dropped on Mark Bailey's Facebook page. looks like they're finally getting around to actually developing all those proposed extensions that have been in the pipeline since the Beatie days. Sunshine coast branch, Springfield extension (possibly to Ipswich?), Beaudesert branch, Gold Coast Airport extension and a Rosewood extension (maybe to Toowoomba?)
No details at the moment so it looks like these are just in the "study" phase but it's nice to see that they're actually dusting the cobwebs off these 2 decade old plans. I'm a bit disappointed in the lack of a corridor in the north west though, especially considering that the BCC announced they're going to do a study into transport options for the north west transport corridor. What a fucking waste it would be if they just paved over it with a highway and nothing else. Nothing about inner metro plans either so it looks like we're SOL for any east-west link for the next decade which Brisbane DESPERATELY needs. Thoughts?

>>1833828
Looks like they're going to implement a bowen hills to Boggo road express shuttle train which is a nice addition, considering that once CRR is done the only line going through south Brisbane will be Ferny Grove/Cleveland. I hope they have plans for duplication along the Cleveland line though because with only one rail line past Wynnum that's going to cause some major bottlenecks

>>1833564
Lol I live in townsville mate you think anyone in Brisbane can steal anything those illiterate northern rednecks haven’t managed to?

>>1833828
Wtf. Gold coast line goes to calboolture instead of the airport?
Fuck off. I don't want those wankers to have a link down to the goldy we have enough already.
Also the only reason for us to go to Brissy is to go to the airport.

>>1834245
you do realize people riding the caboolture line can, at this very moment, change trains at half a dozen train stations to get onto the gold coast line right?
also yeah the lack of a direct line to the airport is a bit weird but with the gold coast airport expansion and rail extension to the airport maybe their plans are to try and get more people on the GC to go to the GC airport

>>1834246
>you do realize people riding the caboolture line can, at this very moment
I don't think "people" from Caboolture are capable of doing that

>>1834253
lmao fair point

>>1834246
GC airport is like. 1h from Brisbane in traffic but often double and sometimes triple the price of a ticket to Brisbane. Why does it even exist?

>>1834279
because the population of the gold coast is 700k and soon to hit 1 million, it's meant to serve the population of the gold coast not the entirety of SEQ
Prices for tickets are pretty whack but you can get cheaper tickets just as often as more expensive tickets because the traffic isn't as as heavy as Brisbane Airport
Saved $200 on a flight to NZ a few years ago flying out of GC airport instead of Brisbane

moved from Mt gravatt to the CBD for work and I fucking hate the CBD.

https://twitter.com/risemelbourne/status/1556217085550034946
Maybe he is getting something done.

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hey cunts newfag looking for an Ebike recc

im 19, /fit/ but do fuck all cardio
picrelated is route to work but want to be future proof for longer distances
0 experience/knowledge riding on main roads
preferably something that can go on dirt too
~$2000-$4000AUD

last time i asked someone said reid was good and said to get this
https://www.reidcycles.com.au/collections/electric-bikes/products/reid-urban-plus-black-ebike?variant=30327191666768
thoughts?

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any comeng appreciators in? going to miss these little niggas so fucking much when they're gone, i love walking to work along the train line and hearing their telltale spluttering and hissing

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>>1839855
>comeng
For me, its the V Set. The plush chairs, footrests, carpet and soft lighting make it so comfy. I always get a migrane on the modern trains. And then there's the chopper motor HNNNGG
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceHTJcDRQkU

>>1839736
Are those steps or are they alternate routes?