>Americans are REQUIRED to build extra parking spacesWtf is this real? I thought you were the country of freedom and property rights.
FUCKI can't read, and I thought this thread was going to be about Venice
>/n/ - fee fees about cars
>>1799451you have the freedom... to abide by the zoning laws.
>>1799519Truly orwellian doublespeak lol.
For hiking & mtb, I use an app called GaiaGPS. I quite like it, but to my eye, their default map styling really emphasizes parking lots when you're in the city. (I would rather see road names...)The cynic in me thinks that this is surely some marketing angle ("Ugh look at all these parking lots, I have to get away..."), but it really does leave you with a grim feeling when you see how much land is just parking.
>>1799625It goes both ways. I live in a city that has tent cities and a construction company tried building a condo with I think five levels of underground parking. Even though the zoning laws said that they required enough spaces to make it three levels, they wanted to add two more levels to offer underground parking for people who are visiting the area.The New Age hippies on the city Council absolutely lost their shit because apparently having more than the required minimum number of parking, even if all the parking is underground, would encourage people to not take the bus downtown. They wanted to limit the number of underground parking spaces this condominium hard so that people wouldn’t be enticed to drive in, as if the people who drove and wouldn’t have just parked on the street - or the handful of municpally owned above ground parking garages (with no building or businesses attached to them) anyway.
>>1799451Since we're requiring things I think we need to require people drive Kei cars/trucks with a max speed of 65 mph.
>nooooo you can't just build space for paying customers to actually access your business!Go open a Dick's or Petco without a parking lot and let us know how that works out for you.
How do you tards deal with cars and americans living in your heads rent free 24/7??
>>1799642None of the ones I've been in (Sambar & Acty) will make it to 65mph. Perhaps down the side of a mountain...
>>1799724walkability brings more revenue to business
>>1799800Source: some cyclist cuck youtuber
>>1799800Only if you have a business that caters exclusively to hobos and commie bus trash.
>>1799837>>1799855How about you retards actually use your brains for once? If you walk around somewhere you're more likely to pop into stores just to look. If you're in a car you have a destination already planned. It's the entire premise behind shopping malls.
>>1799858Shopping malls have several floors of underground parking, fucking retard.
>>1799872>MUH MALL!!!lel the eternal mutt
>>1799877I was answering someone bringing up malls you subhuman retard, literally the post right above. and I'm not American. I also use a bus to commute to work (takes the same time as a car during rush hour anyway) but I don't make up shitty claims about parking lots.
>>1799872you walk in the mall retard. This obviously differs from stand alone stores you drive to. If you don't understand this concept it's over for you
>>1799881The reason malls succeeded was being enclosed and climate controlled as well as having ample free parking, in contrast to downtowns where parking was metered.
>>1799881It amazes me how this dolt missed the point. What a lost soul.
>>1799858>It's the entire premise behind shopping malls.anon I...https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/10/a-third-of-americas-malls-will-disappear-by-next-year-jan-kniffen.html
>>1799724Ever heard of multistory car park?They also have the benefit of being protected against the elements so your shopper can enjoy a cool car when the sun shines and don't have to worry about getting wet when it rains.>captcha: BASEDNP
>>1799940>Ever heard of multistory car park?Many times more expensive to build and maintain than a parking lot
>>1799456>/o/ - fee fees about anything other than cars
>>1799938Because you have to drive there and nobody wants to go anywhere because of how fucking awful these places are due to car dependency.
>>1799943That totally depends on the land prices.
>>1799724>>1799636It just shouldn’t be forced either way. The market can decide how much parking is worth building.
>>1800025Free market fundamentalism provides adequate outcomes when you define the scope of "the market" in such a way as to make free market fundamentalism seem effective (such as farmers in the town square on sunday selling turnips and potatoes). It falls apart when applied to markets in the wild, when people can't even agree on what "the market" really is (is it the market of institutional investors seeking to expand their portfolios? the market of local people looking for a place to live? etc). Things are already being "forced either way", you're just pretending those things are part of the natural order because ignoring those other things is convenient for your agenda.
>>1800025Developers normally build many more parking spaces than is required by local rules in the first place
>>1799896outdoor malls exist
>>1799938yes because everyone is buying things online now. Don't act like malls have never worked
>>1799451>lives in a post-WWII world>thinks freedom exists anywhere>>1800029What?
>>1799724>actually defending car centered cities
>>1799938Malls are terrible because they don’t want to make the investment, but on the other hand, they don’t have people going to them so they can’t afford to make the investment.All the malls in my city completely redesigned themselves. They tore down all the old tiles and they expanded the malls and added more modern fixtures. They also built luxury condos right near them and they lobbied the municipal government to build train lines connecting directly to them. One mall even partnered with the federal government to build offices right on top. Another gutted out an entire section of the mall and dedicated a wall of stores to “local businesses” where people can sell artisianal shit and local farm good etc for a severely reduced rent. They’re busy as hell even during the day.Its a chicken and egg scenario. It’s very hard to convince investors and RE companies to pay an extra 200 million revamping a mall whose only clientele is dependent on the sears. It’s a classic case of capitalism. Those who innovate, will succeed. Those who rely on people to come to their local sears>>1799940, and are too scared to upgrade to the future, will be left behind.
>>1800162where is "my city"? this is actually interesting.
>>1799451It kind of becomes the cities problem when you dont have enough parking spaces at your publicly accessible retail location and causes traffic issues on the roads.
>>1800176Fuck it;Ottawa, ONT.St Laurent Mall, Rideau Centre all connected to train line (which was recently built). Bayshore (West) and Place D’Orleans (East) will be connected by 2025 ?Rideau and Bayshore both will have lux condos and Place D’orleans is the mall with the govt office contract.If you look at the interiors of them (minus Place, they’re still renovating) you’ll see they all look like 21st century malls.
>>1800010Only in commieblock neighbourhoods malls can work without car dependency. Otherwise you just won't get enough people.
>>1800074Malls have always been composed of 1) big boxes that may as well have been standalone2) a giant hybrid McBurgerHutPaneraCinnaBell known as the "food court"3) a hundred smaller stores selling soap and crystals and sunglasses stuck in a perpetual death loop as one went broke and the next idiot with a retarded doomed business idea jumped in to lease the spot
>>1800162>people can sell artisianal shit and local farm good etc for a severely reduced rentSee, they work! All we have to do is use government power to completely undermine basic economic reality.
>>1799896The reason malls exist is because you mutts started to center everything around a car. In Europe there are actually inner cities that are bustling with people and the entire city, historical places, are filled with everything, cafes, bars, shops whatever. Your little malls are a relic of a bygone era because newsflash: They fucking suck. "omg i am a fat mutt, I cant breathe normal air and cant stand sunlight unless I am on the beach drunk out of my mind, where is muh ac!?"
>>1800405Sounds exactly like a mall. The reason your mad is that the mall built 50 years ago doesn’t look like the mall built 600 years ago, but how could it.
>>1799451I'm tired. Let's just ban cars from entering a city without a work permit (tradies and haulbois). Make every road into a tramway or cycling path and kill everyone too fat to walk to a tram stop and back. Cars are so fucking stupid and I'm tired of compromising with cagebrains.Imagine how many townhouses you could build in those parking lots so people could actually afford to live.
>>1799724>noooo i can't possibly buy a 10 lb tent or a 20 lb sack of dogfood without a mechanical cage to haul it for me! my arms are made of gelatin and my legs are vestigal flappers!Pathetic.
>>1800162the goods sold in malls are overpriced and sub-par quality. they fail because boomers refuse to admit they are out of touch, and just scream at people when they fail. the malls could be repurposed into something useful. indoor tennis courts, gyms, non-chain restaurants, farmers markets and grocery stores, bars, etc that people actually use. no one wants to buy mall clothes that are made in china from shitty polyester and sold for $30/shirt. if i could try shit from amazon on in store i'd be a lot happier because buying shoes online really sucks. unfortunately malls and stores only have trash inventory no one wants.>>1800405we know they suck dude. the only way to save it would be to turn the highways into train lines and the parking lots into housing. but no one is willing to do that, they just scream and flail their arms taht we need even more fucking highway lanes and spaghetti intersections that take up more landspace than all of Milan.
>>1800499>refuse to admit they are out of touch>just scream at people when they fail.Serious projection going on
>>1800184>Fuck it;>Ottawa, ONT.Now we know where you live. Consider yourself marked.>>1800405>malls exist is because you mutts startedYou've got to say "Amerimutt", or we'll assume you're talking about the Euro variety :^)>>1800493>kill everyone too fat to walk to a tram stop and backAren't you forgetting someone?
>>1800405>In EuropeTIL I learned europe is a country>and the entire city, historical places, are filled with everything, cafes, bars, shops whateverand it's mostly rootless tourist tat that the locals can't afford anyway.something something rent free shart in mart
>>1800548Believe it or not, but Europe is actually a real place.
>>1800548>And it's mostly touristsNot true at all, even small villages without tourists tend to have a walkable city center.Honestly it really depends on land value. I know some big cities here require all new buildings to build underground parking or face a fine. >Rural AreasJust park on the side of the road >Low density urban areasBuild parking lots>High density urban areas Build parking garages. But yeah zoning and similar laws are absolutely retarded.
>>1800025It would work out like this. Someone builds a parking lot. Their neighbor leaches off of it.
>>1800703Private lots can restrict parking to only patrons of the attached business, or only to people who pay for parking. If this were not possible, paid parking lots would not exist.
>>1800214That's the decision of the mall owner to use local businesses as a loss leader to get people into the mall. They did the same with the anchor stores before all of them went bankrupt.
>>1800548Europe isn't a country but it can be compared to the USA in many ways. Like no country in Europe is car brained like America and is walkable so comparing the two is fair ya nerd.
>>1800405Lots of places in europe have historic comfy inner cities and malls, too. Even little pretty malls in those inner cities.>>1800408>but how could itWouldn't be too difficult actually to build old school fake inner cities, only the mixed fill would maybe illegal. You'd just have to build a small town with a paring space on the side or even underground in a fancy version. But it's way too much effort and costs for customers that will love cheap shopping only plastic hallways just as much if not more.
>>1800408>Sounds exactly like a mall.Never seen a mall with schools, theaters, churches, library and normal flats.>>1800548Most of europe is similar enough in case of city design>it's mostly rootless tourist tat that the locals can't afford Dude, you're thinking of places like venedigs cruise liner landing site. But completely unknown small towns also have inner cities, even if the only tourists are locals relatives and the occasional hiker.
>>1799451Everyone hates parking minimums, but those same cities usually have parking maximums. So fuck off with that disingenuous bullshit.
>>1800405This is Italy's Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II. It was built in the late 1800s and basically consists of several buildings connected and enclosed with a glass roof. There are no cars allowed inside. Does not that sound familiar?
>>1799451Civil "rights" act killed private property rights
>>1801046They're all over the place. Different names depending on the culture & how far back you look. Bazaar, market hall, arcade, etc.Leadenhall Market, London is the one normies are possibly familiar with, because of Harry Potter. Hamidiyeh, Damascus might be the most kino.
>>1800756>Never seen a mall with schools, theaters, churches, library and normal flats.I can think of malls (in the US) that have each of those, but not one that has all-at-once. Assuming you meant 'live theater', not 'movies'.
>>1801065But then it should be possible. Maybe they'll get there.
>>1799451Lets say you are in America and want a down town with less parking. What would you do?The problem is one can assume that everyone normally travels by car, is not in walking distance from the down town, and is living in population dense areas. These are unchangeable facts for any realist solution. A compounding problem would that people like to have shopping cart full of grocery which they load into trunks - which they unload when they get back. While this behavior can change, I would think it would mean that Americans would prefer solutions where distance walking and amount of time transferring from different transport would be minimized.
>>1802399a small thing is removing parking minimums. It opens the door to developers using space more efficiently if they want to.
>>1802399Build a big outdoor mall
>>1802399A few wrong assumptions.>Downtowns traditionally do not have any stores that are intended for mass purchasing; most of that is in new development>Downtowns were made before such parking requirements were made, they are grandfathered in.>Dense development often will get parking requirements waived. This is extra forms and paperwork but such exceptions make the city extra money.>If it hasn't been redeveloped with office towers, downtowns in America are either forgotten, falling apart relics with a few restaurants and antique stores, or a regional destination with restaurants and shops.>Outside of downtown or wherever the gentrified area stops is an area of poverty and crime, with the difference in just a few blocks. This is almost universal.
>>1802399Why not plan a new, car free downtown with the parking lots underground directly beneath? Add a circulating slow cute bus on the top that carries the customers around that can't or don't want to walk more than a few steps. Now you have a very walkable outdoor mall that doesn't force people to walk.
>>1802722>Why not plan a new, car free downtown with the parking lots underground directly beneath?Are you serious anon? Are you really this dumb?Do you know how unnecessarily expensive that would be and how stupidly long it would take to build?You'd have dump trucks hauling dirt out of downtown 24/7 for years just to build a few underground parking lots.Even if you could afford it, where are you even going to put underground parking, Downtown areas are alreadly filled with huge basements, sewers, electrical lines and all sorts of other underground structures that you'd have to build around and somehow find the space to squeeze in the massive parking structures you're talking about.
>>1802757They managed to build big parking spaces under parts of a medieval inner city I used to live, if that's possible it should be doable from scratch.I guess with seemingly endless space and not much people that would consider walking to that downtown in the first place there's less reason to not just build huge parking spaces all around it but then you'd put that unnecessary ugly barrier between the inner city/outdoor mall and the neighbourhoods again.
>>1799451>I thought you were the country of freedom and property rights.why would you think that?
>>1799724>REEEEEEEEEEE YOU HAVE TO DO WHAT I SAY WITH YOUR PROPERTY REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE>HOW DARE YOU WANT TO DO THINGS YOUR OWN WAY fuck off commie
>>1799968>/o/ - feefees about cars