Post and talk about trams and similar light rail.Starting with a pic the neat Tatra KT4DCs of Potsdam.
what is a tram? what is light rail? when does somthing stop being light rail and become a metro?
>>1794898What is a metro?
>>1794898>TramPassenger train that uses its own at-grade tracks for an urban setting, occasionally extending to the first ring suburbs.>Light railJust a concept for railroads that operate passengers and parcels instead of focusing on freight and commodities.>MetroPassenger train that uses its own mix of at-grade, elevated, and underground tracks for an urban setting, occasionally extending to the furthest ring of suburbs.BONUS>StreetcarPassenger train that uses at-grade tracks shared with road traffic in an urban setting, rarely extending past that city's limits.
>>1794898>when does somthing stop being light rail and become a metrousually when it starts getting its hair did and pedicures and other shit like that
A New York Railways low floor “hobbleskirt” car, an innovative design but had mechanical issues and only lasted a dozen years.
Eartha Kitt with an Istanbul tram
>>1794910Nigger, a tram and a passenger train are two different types of vehicles.
>>1794894You will never be a trammy
>>1794942Train references any vehicles pulled, but without their own power source. Locomotives are the power units behind heavy rail, trams are typically electric or diesel vehicles that also include passengers. You can make the argument that one (1) car in a tram is not a train and be right, same as the locomotive on a heavy rail is not a train. My classification for a street car was, therefore, incorrect for including the term "train".I guess that's the biggest difference between those two rail classifications. Does your locomotive double for passengers or not?
>>179491037 IQ post
>>1794898>what is a tram? what is light rail?It very much depends on who you ask. If you show some Polish trams like modern Pesas to someone from Japan, they'll call it LRT.If you show some Japanese trams like the ones in Kochi to someone from Poland, they'll think it's some narrow gauge tourist heritage railway thing.
>>1795040What's an EMU or DMU then?Too bad /n/ isn't the richest source of (You)s.
>>1794910>>1794898>TramLimited grade separationFairly small vehiclesOperates on short distancesVery small "stations" and partially just stops in the street to let people in and outStops are often just a few hundred meters apart>Light RailLarger vehiclesLarger distances covered between stopDue to his higher speedsConnects areas which tend to be further apartHas mostly proper stationsOften serves as a hybrid between a tram and a proper metro, at least in medium sized cities (200k to 1,000k people) here in Germany, where a proper metro system would be hard to justify.>MetroComplete grade separationServes far longer distancesFar larger vehicles and longer trainsDedicated stations and not just stopsOften operates for a significant chunk of it's routes undergroundOften operates due to the complete grade separation on a third rail instead of overhead wires>when does somthing stop being light rail and become a metro?Once it has complete grade separation I would say.
What does everyone think of our new trams here for Potsdam?Planned introduction is april 2024.
>>1794894Are there any places that monitor stations and determine whether the tram needs to stop to pick up or drop off passengers? It'd make things a lot faster.
could LRV's like the Siemens S70 fit into legacy trolley lines or they're too big for it?
>tram line 5 in Ostrava>literary only goes trough villages
>>1794894I really liked Lisbon's trams when I was there. I didn't get to ride them since I had a short layover, but I did get to ride the Lisbon Metro, which was nice enough. I thought the trams were nice looking and I was glad they weaved through aspects of the older parts of the city.
I'd like to ride the Toronto streetcar if I ever get the chance to visit Toronto. I heard they removed most of the old stock, which is sorta shit, but I can still appreciate the fact that they kept most of their streetcar network compared to most US cities.
>>1796881>Detect people waiting at stop>Send out tram from depot>It gets there 30 minutes later>People gone
>>1797454>takes 19min over only 9 kmits a cost saving measure, but trams never replaced trains
Lvs-66 is fucking neat. Why did they have to utilize them all
>>1797680it have ten stops, and iirc runs old T3 tram every 20 minutes as there aren't that many passagersi still have no idea why that line exist tho, considering it goes only trough villages
>>1797723probably a lawwe run regional trains for that
>>1797675>detect no people at stop>tram can pass at full speed>>1796881There are some stops in Switzerland where you need to press a button for the next train/tram to stop.Usually there's a button for each direction and the activated state lasts around ten minutes to avoid people pushing the button and leaving.
>>1794894I've never understood why was it good for ViP to differentiate KT4Ds to be the first or second vehicle in these trains (the leading tramcars received a 1xx number, while the others received the same, except it started with 2, as seen in the pic), while the second ones remained to be able to run independently too.
>>1797725i doubt there is any law for thatalso they could easily replace it by busesalso, would you live there? having trams going around your house all day?
>>1797786seems fun, an autists dreami doubt youll hear anything inside
>>1797727Why does everything have to be an IOT botnet?
>>1797730>I've never understood why was it good for ViP to differentiate KT4Ds to be the first or second vehicle in these trains (the leading tramcars received a 1xx number, while the others received the same, except it started with 2, as seen in the pic), while the second ones remained to be able to run independently too.Aren't those two trams basically always linked in everyday operations and are never separated?
>>1797786>having trams going around your house all day?wtf? wtf? wtf? wtf?
>>1797919It's not IoT at all, it's more of a simple light switch handling a signal light around 300m away from the station.
We have an Alstom Citadis (402 according to wikipedia), in Tours (Fr*nce)Sorry I'm bad at taking photosWhat do you think about it?
>>1798082Might be the only good looking contemporary tram I've seen
>>1797786yest. lived in prague on street with trams
>>1794942High speed conga line from London to Newcastle fucking WHEN?
>>1797659Basically that entire picture doesn't exist anymore anon.>Old Street cars gone>Honest Eds gone
>>1799061i live next to depo so all trams go next to my flat 24/7
>>1799583>not living in the depot
>>1799583>not dining with trams
>>1799603>>1799604very coolŠkoda here makes trams, and if you are electrican/electrotechnican you can get tram loicesne as part of your job iircyou can also get it working for town mass transit provider DPO, as part of maintenance crew
>they block 4chan and 4chanel on wifi in local trams in this eastern euro shithole
>>1798082It has a somewhat dangerous vibe.
>>1802985didn't thought someone would say this lolduring the day it's a bit more cheerful, the inside of the tram is quite cuteI'd like to take some photos inside but I don't want ppl to think I'm creepy
Why did New Orleans reject the Tatrapill?
>>1794898The lines between a tramway and a railway can get a bit blurry at times. See: Karlsruhe tram-train, Manx Electric Railway, Manchester metrolink, Wisbech and Upwell Tramway...
>>1794898I think in the UK at least, a tramway is defined as a light railway that runs (at least partially) in the road. Often, but not always, electric. Some mine railways were also described as "tramways"
Dresden is getting a new model. It looks a bit retarded but in a cute way. Also no more cargo tram
What heritage tram services are you aware of? Post 'em!Zurich has a semi-regular heritage line 21, which runs the last weekend of each month between the city center and the tram museum (and one stop further to the end of the line).It mostly uses a two axle tram from the 1920s, a four-axle tram from the 1930s (dubbed "Elefant" for its large size and powerful motors) with two-axle trailer, and a steel-bodied tram with matching trailer from the 1940s.
>>1803908I never know New Orleans tested a Tatra. I know they tried out a PCC car at some point. They seem to be committed to the retro streetcar look, constantly refurbishing the century old Perley Thomas cars on the St. Charles line and buying retro style cars for their newer lines.
oh no no, we get too cocky tram bros
>>1804415>damage to tramsome cosmetic scratches>damage to carlucky that you can still see the original shape
>>180442140 minutes tram junction because retard didn't stop on crossing with lightslast month on last stop before depo there were stuck 16 trams
>>1797659The new ones are pretty nice to ride in, though I do miss opening the window on those old streetcars.
why does the Brookville Liberty only have doors at the center car?
>>1804657Good question. I think the center section has a lower floor that makes it easier to board while the wheels are under the ends. Also: any tram modelers here?
>>1803942> no more cargo tram :((((
>>1804680>tram modelersI'm not one, but yours is really cute and super detailed!
>>1803942But it doesn't have any doors
>>1804847Having no doors ensures that there are no delays caused by those pesky passengers.
>>1797659>NO price will be refused at honest edsI only just now got that Ed, Eddd n' Eddy reference.
>>1797680This was originally a train line branching from Svinov (Swinow) that got taken over by trams at the end of WW2. Then they cut the connection to Svinov and that's how it ended up as it is.It also shows when you ride it, It's heavily separated from other traffic, and overall has this "suburban train" kind of feel.>>1797723I have never seen it served by those, they almost always send medium-to-large sized trams in there. But it's pretty popular, there is big pool/lake, a few ski slopes and some nice forests and hills around it so people take it for a bike trip or small hike. Plus it has its commuter purpose on top of that.
>>1797786Honestly, since it's near a massive foundry I think some tram circling around every 10 - 40 minutes is the least of your problems.
>>1794894Does light rail have any meaningful advantage to trolleybuses? Trolleybuses have:>greater mobility>greater traction on inclines>simpler infrastructure>lower maintenance>lower weightWhereas light rail has: >aesthetic>easier operationsIf I were a city planner, I would definitely prefer light rail just for the aesthetic, but how could I justify it? The only thing I could think of is that once the infrastructure would be built, it would be harder to get rid of, meaning that policy would be guaranteed for the foreseeable future.
>>1805628not getting stuck in traffic jam
>>1805628LRT has greater capacity and more flexibility in terms of capacity: You can go from vehicles as small as a bus to vehicles almost as big as a subway train. Modern systems are usually flexible in having vehicles that can be coupled in trains of 2 or 3, so you can run small vehicles during off hours, or large vehicles during peak hours.Overall, LRT throughput is about 4 times as much as any bus line can offer.
i fuckin hate this thred
>>1805645just get more buses
>>1805943costs more. once you've bought your equipment the largest cost of every system is the drivers. a long train is therefore cheaper to operate than two articulated busses
>>1805943>just get more busest. retardA transit lane has a practical limit on vehicle throughput. You can't run more than one bus every 2 minutes, lest you have them bunching, and slowing down because they have to wait for the other bus to drop off passengers, missing the traffic lights, getting off schedule, etc. So at that point, you literally can't "just get more buses", or you have to do so at the expense of getting average speeds of about 10 km/h (6 mph) instead of ~20 km/h (12 mph) or better, if you keep a reasonable frequency. Not rocket science, bub.Also this >>1805957
somehow for me the KTM-5 looks like a corrugated shed on wheels
>>1806159haha fooled u I don't
>>1806007KTM-5 is peak zero-fucks-given utilitarian soviet tram design
>>1806321and this was the prototype for KTM-5…
>>1797659Man, the CLRV was peak comfy from about late September to late May. Loved riding them. Then the summer months came and I cursed the stench of a thousand sweaty OCAD cunts inside each car, and longed for the air conditioning in my old shitty Grand Vitara>>1804651The new ones are objectively better in every way but they're pretty soulless. I really hate the pre-recorded bell sound they play. How fucking hard could it have been to fit them with a real bell, or just use a different sound altogether?
>>1806517Should have been Tatra but ended up being an outhouse shack.
>>1810118This is my city's light rail, iirc it's the only service operating Siemens Diseros in the US(sorry if picrel isn't best quality)
>>1807353Oude tram: dienstNieuwe tram: geen dienstHHMMMMMMMMMM
What are actually all the advantages of trams/light rail over buses?So far my list goes like this but I'm curious if there are more I am missing:>far higher comfort and smoother ride than often bumpy buses, making them far more attractive to (potential) riders>far higher capacity per train than buses, requiring fewer units and operators to perform the same job>stops are shorter as trams can reaccelerate much faster>can go, especially on separated tracks, much faster than buses on the same or a similar route>can with separated tracks avoid regular traffic >vehicles have a much longer life expectancy than buses
>>1811005>>1811005>Electrification means that they emit zero pollution, great for air quality>step-free access is much easier to accomplish>physical rails prevent politicians from gutting networks as they please
FUN FACT: Tram was my first word
is Tatra-Yug’s K1 based on the T6B5? question also applies to UralTransMash’s 71-402
>>1811005>comfy>doesn't drive past when you're waiting at the station>routes and stations clearly visible at a distance>usually on timeWell-designed BRT can deliver most of these, but BRT has a bad habit of degrading into a regular city bus, at which point you might as well not bother.
Fun fact: the Brooklyn baseball team was originally called the Trolley Dodgers, later shortened to just Dodgers, and they kept the name when they moved to Los Angeles.
>>1811044>physical rails prevent politicians from gutting networks as they pleaseI fucking wish
>>1795108not a train autist but could you theoretically run those old engines on a modern tram line assuming the same track gauge?
>>1796838Trams here got worse every time they replaced them. Best (I think) were the ones that replaced OP pic, the broad ones with easy access. I ate dirt too many times tumbling out of a Tatra, so I I really prefer low entry.
>>1813532That sounds stupid. I meant "worse every time after they replaced the Tatras", of course. Good job on them running still, though.
>>1812829Yes, I'm fairly certain the LRT in my town was built to reuse a bunch of disused rail lines from the industrial boom
>>1812829The tracks may not support the steam locomotive's weight
>>1812829Doubt it. Tram lines are engineered to handle tram weights, which are significantly lighter than heavy rail. An overbuilt tram line, or one that was a conversion from a heavy rail line earlier on could probably handle a steam locomotive, but chances are the majority would see pretty significant track wear after a heavier locomotive ran over them.
>tfw calcutta trams are being slowly killed off
>>1817745Why do third worlders repeat the exact mistakes the western world did 70 years ago? what's the excuse?
>>1817746literally the same excuse, I shit you not>muh tram is holding up traffic!
>>1812499Yes, K1 and its derivatives are licensed T6B5 copies, while 71-402/3/5/7 are bootlegs.
>>1817751even more so, Yuzhmash plant in Dnipro where all the Tatra-Yugs are produced assembled 40 or so T6B5's in the 90's from OG Czech parts.
Copenhagen Duewag GT6's till rattle on the streets of Alexandria, Egypt
>>1796835>grade separationyou mean right of wayheavy rail and metros can still have level crossings
>>1817800>>1817798At least Alexandria is looking to keep their trams, they bought 4 new units.Maybe they'll start cannibalising the old ones for parts while replacing the gutted ones with new ones?
>>1817819It's not precisely defined as such, but I'd say grade separation would imply absolute priority at level crossings, while ROW doesn't and will have the trams following road signalling (albeit with signal priority perhaps).
ex-SSB GT4 operating in Fukui
>>1811106It was actually tramp and you pointed at your mother when you said it lol
>>1818127lol lookit that pizza sign, what the fuck is that?
>>1818312>EuropeThis is why I hate americans. Scunthorpe or Barcelona?
>>1818320Rondrit tramRotterdam, Netherlands
>>1818326brb going to rotterdam to key all pickups
we got too cocky trambros
>>18238591.6 km line is getting reconstructed and instad of gravel there will be grass
>>1824678MODS MODS MODS
Are their applications where a lightweight suspended monorail would be cheaper and more economical to build than a tram or elevated rail system?I thought having the trains above the streets rather than sharing the streets with road traffic wouldn't fuck up logistics.
>>1794894Does anybody know of a way to find out news regarding projects to construct light rail?I'm trying to find out what's going on in regards to a proposal that was made a few years back to massively expand my city's transport network.I found a final report that was made back in 2016 but there hasn't been any info I can find as to what the final decision was.
>>1826341>need specially made vehicle instead serially made ones>much more demands on safety>shitty maintenance>need to take stairs to board and a lot of elevators for accessibility>need firefighters in case of emergency to get people out>>1826940in my country some cities publish strategic plansso there it would be if it's planed
>>1826341>Are their applications where a lightweight suspended monorail would be cheaper and more economical to build than a tram or elevated rail system?>I thought having the trains above the streets rather than sharing the streets with road traffic wouldn't fuck up logistics.Very few (for example Wuppertal having theirs routed directly over the eponymous river valley (Wuppertal=Wupper Valley), but honestly the situations where they make sense are few and far between.If the area was very curvy and only poorly accessible or very crowded with little space for a slightly wider system such a suspended set up perhaps make sense, but how often and where is that the case?
>>1826341Wuppertal and some towns in Japan
probably the only pic i could find of Duwag GT Trams used in Mashhad, Iran
Thoughts on the CTA 7000-series railcars that are set to replace the 2600 and 3200 series? I'm not a very big fan of how these look compared to even the 5000-series since that one at least still retains the classic look of the high performance cars.
>>1830566NOT A TRAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
>>1826341There are some pretty specific criteria to make hanging monorails beat out other transit modes.>Direct corridor)>Enough planned stops that a few meters of each would add significant expenses>Foundations are not conducive for a central pylon but fine for side onesIt's incredibly uncommon to find such locations, but they do exist, such as >>1827794 pointed out. Basically over a small riverbed, with development along its banks is the only place that comes to mind.
Tracks are being installed on Wellington Street to prepare for streetcar diversion on Queen due to the open cut construction for the Relief Line/ Ontario Line subway.
>>1826341Our city has a short, crappy tram that both annoys drivers and still gets stuck in traffic jams. The construction knocked out several local businesses and the stations are not compatible with bike lanes or bus stations. It's also slow and loud on sharp turnsThe final product of a suspended monorail is arguably superior to both trams and elevated rail, since much of the construction happens off the road, the electronics are shielded from the weather, the stations can be 1-2 stories closer to the road, and the rubber tyres are both quieter and capable of climbing steeper hills. Plus, suicide attempts won't slow down the traffic!Also, I work utilities and the tracks have forced a lot of expensive relocation with no plan in place for when the pipes need to be reconstructed.
>>1831452>Our city has a short, crappy tram that both annoys drivers and still gets stuck in traffic jams. The construction knocked out several local businesses and the stations are not compatible with bike lanes or bus stations. It's also slow and loud on sharp turns>The final product of a suspended monorail is arguably superior to both trams and elevated rail, since much of the construction happens off the road, the electronics are shielded from the weather, the stations can be 1-2 stories closer to the road, and the rubber tyres are both quieter and capable of climbing steeper hills. Plus, suicide attempts won't slow down the traffic!>Also, I work utilities and the tracks have forced a lot of expensive relocation with no plan in place for when the pipes need to be reconstructed.What soft of tram did your city built for it to be such a mess?
>>1794898Light rail and tram is pretty blurry to me. They're building a line here that will have nearly 3km of dedicated bridges and other paths across a bay. But outside of that, it just has a separate lane in the middle of the street. Would that be more of a tram or a light rail?
>>1794898>>1834035Light rail simply refers to the capacity of the rail vehicle, trams refer to a specific type of vehicle using specific types of infrastructure.All trams are light rail, but not all light rail are trams.
>>1834036Nah I think it's more than that, a light rail route will have more elaborate grade separation than a standard tram, hence why it's considered a hybrid between a tram line and a metro line. This is the first example that popped in my mind, in Stockholm. It has sections where it's just running on its own lane on the street, and even some mixed traffic sections, but then it also has a lot of heavily separated bridge and other rail sections where it's almost like a proper railwayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giBsYCw3CsICompared to a typical tram line here in Helsinki where they're just running on the street all the time, although the new lines tend to have their own lane at least. They're building a light rail line here now as well, but it won't be quite as elaborate as that Stockholm one
>>1834038>a light rail route will have more elaborate grade separation than a standard tramBut a light rail route may also traverse surface streets alongside road vehicles, therefore it is simpler just to classify trams as a subset of light rail, rather than creating a separate category for partially grade-separated light rail that's a bizarre mix between trams and metros.It doesn't help your case that metros are arbitrarily defined; many light rail systems brand themselves as metros. This is in contrast to the distinction between light and heavy rail, which strictly refers to capacity. Trams fall under light rail because of its capacity, which is too low to be considered heavy rail.
>>1834040>It doesn't help your case that metros are arbitrarily defined; many light rail systems brand themselves as metrosI wouldn't consider a system a metro system unless it's fully grade separated, in those cases they're just trying to be fancy with their naming but it's still just a light rail
>>1834040>many light rail systems brand themselves as metros.To further emphasis the point, pic related brands itself as a metro despite using tram vehicles and having a core section that mostly runs on surface streets.
>>1796835>>1794898tram: not grade separated, one carriagelight rail: not grade separated, multiple carriagesmetro: grade separated, multiple carriages
>>1834051>light rail: not grade separated, multiple carriagesSome light rail systems such as the DLR are fully grade separated, and are classed as such because of their capacity.
>>1832841I bet it's an ameriburger meme tram loop through gentrified downtown
>>1834055>>1834051>>1834043>>1834041>>1834040etc.It's largely semantics. It's all the same trams/streetcars are simply names for light railway, and there's no distinction except for systems like DLR that operate like metros except for the capacity and consequently couldn't be called tram. LRTs can run on streets, ROW or grade separated, but so could streetcars. The North Shore Line would run subway-sized trains on the street, on grade separated tracks and on the el tracks. Zurich trams which are 1st gen narrow gauge and street running have ROW sections and grade separated sections, including a tunnel section. Nothing stops you from having grade separated track for a street running tram.This discussion is so fucking annoying, call it "tram" or "LRT" it's still the same, just that nowadays they prefer LRT because tram or streetcar sounds old and scares the boomers.
>>1834074Most of that is what I've been saying, trams and light rail are almost the same, but my contention is that trams specifically are a subset of light rail.If your light rail system is fully grade separated, then it is not a tram system, otherwise it is. Of course this distinction would not matter if your rail vehicle meets the criteria for heavy rail.
>>1834051>tram: not grade separated, one carriage>light rail: not grade separated, multiple carriagesI guess this is another matter of perspective. I wouldn't call the Helsinki trams light rail, even if they have more than one carriage
>>1834128That's a cute looking tram, what model is that?
>>1834136https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0koda_ArticThey basically had to design these for Helsinki since the network has so many sharp turns. The previous ones they got around the year 2000 kept breaking down and damaging the rails
>>1834262Actually here's a video about that specific subject, tl;dw the track geometry is badhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J046lVV_Ww
imagine still maintaining tracks in 2021? AI can follow a path without digging up the asphalt.. oh but then the city would lose part of their budget and they cant have that
>>1830697sorry I didn't notice I was in the wrong thread
>>1834262Shittiest model ever desu. Fucking space shuttle trams. For me, its NrI and NrII.
My town has about 20 of these. I dont really like them, like most modern trains they are designed to pack in as many people as possible in the least ammount of comfort
We also have another 20 of these, which are better but at peak times their are shortages because Bombadier isnt making enough new wheels so about 5 arent in service at the moment.
TRAMMIES GET OUT