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08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
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Can NA redeem itself?
What is the best city in NA, transportwise?
Is NA improving?
>>
NA already has good transit if you live in one of a handful of cities.
It's tough, but it's your responsibility to move into one of those cities if you like transit.
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>>1789941
which cities anon?
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>>1789934
A country's kinocity is inversely proportion to the quality of its public transportation quality (Japan excluded)
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>>1789957
what muesure of kinocity has Hong Kong being less Kino than Atlanta
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>>1789934
It's probably NYC if in the US, I can't really speak to the rest of NA. Their main competition was Chicago, but the quality of the CTA has tanked in the past 6 months or so.
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>>1789951
San Francisco, New York City. Chicago?
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>>1790025
>New York
>good transit
Pick one
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>>1790026
>he doesn't understand how selection bias works
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>>1790030
Your tone suggests you think NYC has good transit, yet selection bias is actually a good explanation for why numtots from ohio think NYC is some kind of mass transit paradise. They hear breathless blogshitposts from yimbys in their social media bubble who pretend a 7 minute commute from a $5000/month apartment to a fintech job is a normal NYC commute, and the existence of 5 million private cars blanketing the surface area of the 5 boroughs is dismissed as a hallucination because it doesn't fit in with their narrative.
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>>1790025
>SF
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>>1790032
I was not actually questioning the conclusion, it's just your argument is stupid.
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>>1789934
Best state for transportation: FL. The Florida Turnpike system is the closest thing to the Autobahn. Things whip along at 100+ in the left lane, on well-maintained roads with excellent sightlines.
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>>1790201
And full of absolute retards that make you wonder how they even managed to spell their name at the DMV.
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How does vancouver score?? is it any good?
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>>1790492
When I lived there 10 years ago it was pretty good but it was all buses. The skytrain was only useful if you lived in the burbs. Canada line was cool, but again, only useful if you lived in the narrow corridor it served.

Bus system pretty good though. I managed to get around with relative ease. If we're comparing similar cities, Seattle's was probably about the same, if not a little better. But Vancouver's was cleaner.
>>
Toronto and Montreal are improving for the better. REM in Montreal currently under construction at the moment, not sure what's happening with the Pink Line though. In Toronto, there are multiple subway projects currently being built right now, with more "on the way" (take it with a grain of salt, knowing Toronto's history with transit planning). GO Transit is being converted from a commuter rail system into a Regional Rail network, with Deutsche Bahn & Alstom at the helm of the project.
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>>1789934
LA is probably the best cycling city in North America. Alpine climbs, rolling foothills, long flat stretches with few stoplights, great paved roads, stunning scenery and to top it all off, perfect weather year round. Group rides go year round, the race season starts in February and ends in October. And that’s just as a roadie. There’s hundreds of miles of gravel 30 minutes away from anywhere in the city, some through national parks where you can camp literally wherever you want. There’s downhill runs that flow into perfectly maintained dirt jump parks nestled behind a quiet rich neighborhoods. Multiple lift serviced downhill parks a short drive from the city that become ski resorts in the short winter off season for cross training. Cycling just isn’t the same anywhere else.
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>>1790201
Florida is a nightmare of retards who don't get out of the passing lane, ever.

No signal lights, merge at like 25 under the speed limit, take forever to pull out into traffic without a stop light. Just a hellscape of retards.
>>
Madison, WI here. Biking is actually really comfy here.
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>>1791161
Yet you don't have an Amtrak stop.
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>>1791777
Checked.
I think it has something to do with Trek headquarters being right next door.
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>>1789951
Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver
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>>1790026
The logical conclusion of that image is obviously that everyone should just walk.
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>>1792098
Based and humanpilled

Driving fucking sucks, transit fucking sucks, your ancestors were right
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>>1792098
I don't think there's a better, safer, more enjoyable form of /transportation/.

Bikes are fun, for leisure, as a choice.
>>
Trannies you will die sooner than the average male.
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>>1792201
Historical records generally show that eunuchs live longer than males
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>>1791103
The thing that really limits GO, in my view, is that it's still ultimately based on the 19th century rail network. It's a purely radial pattern that is really, really good at moving people along certain corridors (usually towards downtown), but to be truly useful regional rail, it needs a belt line of some sort.
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>>1791103
>not sure what's happening with the Pink Line though
cancelled due to being too expensive, city can't afford its share so now the city and province are waiting to see how the REM de l'Est serves the northern shore of the island before redrawing the plans given the scale of the project.

>>1792307
GO by its nature couldn't really create belts for its network unless it was a belt in the green zone outside Mississauga, Brampton, Vaughan, Richmond Hill around to Pickering. What the region needs is to take notes from Montreal's REM for places too far for a proper subway that has too much demand for only buses. Though given the nature of the CDPQ, that might actually be brought to Toronto by them as a private CDPQinfra project.
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>>1792152
For me the experience of cycling is exactly like walking. Equally relaxing, as safe, and even more enjoyable. (yes i live in the Netherlands, how could you guess?). Bikes, when properly designed for are like range extenders for walking.
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>>1789934
What's wrong with it? Usually it's just...
>muh lack of rail
>muh freeways
>muh sharrows
>muh stroads

Everyone shares the same misleading meme images taken at weird angles like Breezewood or Houston, rinse, wash, repeat
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>>1789951
Boston, NYC, Seattle, Miami, even Sacramento isn't totally shit if you know how to get around.
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>>1794634
You can't just put "muh" in front of some legitimate complains and act like you've refuted them. Yes you can't get anywhere other than by car and that is a problem.
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>>1795700
Well, some of them aren't legitimate complaints. Rail still requires some sort of last mile solution which mass transit really doesn't have, and intercity ridership, despite billions of dollars over the years, is abysmal.

Freeways? Well, they're not really a problem either, and usually get broken down into a few categories
>aesthetics
personal choice, understandable but not relevant
>takes up space
doesn't really matter when you have space, just like traffic circles take up more space than an intersection
>inefficient
usually measured in ideal circumstances favoring mass transit (packed vehicles going in same destination)
>induced demand
basically measures traffic lane-miles against population growth (with the original paper notably not advocating mass transit as a solution) but parroted and exaggerated so much that it might as well be a myth at this point

Sharrows I'm not sure about. I assume they get complaints because cyclists are weird and autistic and legally allowing them to take the full lane confuses and frightens them, but I honestly don't know.

Stroads are a made-up definition and a made-up problem, basically after railing against freeways they go after avenues and major thoroughfares.

>Yes you can't get anywhere other than by car
You can go places, if you live out in the middle of the cornfields probably not, but you can still bike places or get an Uber
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>>1789934
If every city of 600K+ people in the US and Canada got a subway system, that would already make the NA transportation system immensely better. If cities with existing rail networks worked on expansion, connectivity, and frequency, that would be a huge boost.

America is wealthy enough to make it happen, but the real issue is political capital. "Everyone drives" or is expected to, so the conversations around building real transit never gets past "but what about MY drive to work" or "what about MY taxes" when it comes to funding. I don't know as much about Canada but Trudeau literally ran on transit expansion in 2015 and I haven't seen the results of it.
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>>1790026
>>1790032
The question isn't whether NYC has *good* transit, it was what city has the best transit in North America, and NYC is, for all its problems, literally the only answer that could possibly be correct. I can't think of a single aspect where another NA metropolitan area is better. Is that sad? Yes.

It is worth mentioning that the Subway has more stations than any other rapid transit system in the world, and is one of a very few that run 24 hours.
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>>1795700
>you can't get anywhere other than by car and that is a problem

Not if it’s your favorite way to get around.
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>>1795847
>that run 24 hours
I would have let this slide except you had to add this ridiculous lie.

MTA execs refuse to create a believable maintenance schedule because they're afraid of getting bullied by the nightlife mafia. So instead they take entire lines out of service completely at random, publicizing it with a pink ribbon (if you're lucky) and some 8.5x11 sheets taped to the pillars, hoping nobody will call them out because it's "temporary fast track improvements" and therefore doesn't count because they said so.

And then the numtot zoomzooms who probably have never touched a metrocard in their life bend over backwards to defend this because on the paper schedule that they can see in their flyover shit hole, no train ever stops running.

Never mind that this flies in the face of logic and any reasonable objective person would stop and ask why literally every other city on earth has shutdown periods, except NYC. No, it must be that the MTA has found (and kept secret) the one kewl trick that (((boomer cagetrolls))) don't want you to know, yeah that must be it!
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>>1795812
Let's go over them
from >>1794634:
>muh lack of rail
undeniably correct.
>muh freeways
every country has freeways but very few route them through the downtown of cities
>muh sharrows
sharrows are not cycling infra
>muh stroads
once again correct. you say
>Stroads are a made-up definition and a made-up problem, basically after railing against freeways they go after avenues and major thoroughfares.
But I wish that is what they were, the entire point is that mayor throughfares are __roads__. But all over America those avenues are instead full of sidestreats and shops, which belong on a __street__. It's like you missed the whole point of why their name is a portmanteau of streeet+road to begin with.


from (You)
>aesthetics
It is hard to argue about taste. If you visit >>1784670 but still think 6 lane roads look better I guess we have nothing to argu about.
>takes up space
May not be a big concern in the the Mississippi valley where you can easily expand in every direction, but lots of coastal cities don't have that luxury but still choose to go car dependent.
>inefficient
you may be suprised that some cities routinely have packed vehicles
>induced demand
legit as long as you remember that all the costs of highways are not actually forwarded to the users, who only finance a portion of the costs of highway construction.

>you can still bike places
if you have a deathwish maybe
>get an Uber
using what vehicle?

Let me throw in a few as well
>expensive
>noicy
>disastarous for the climate
>dangarous
>minors can't get anywhere
among other things
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>>1789934
>>
>>1795952
where?
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>>1795986
given the top right pic I'm gonna guess Ottawa
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How does a good public transport network even look like? What's the expectations? Maybe I have it and just don't realize it could be much worse.
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>>1796053
>>1795986
yes, Ottawa - transitway haver and recent builder of light rail which runs underground through the downtown core.
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>>1795692
Nah, Sacramento is still pretty shit if you want to go to the westside of the river, or Natomas.
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>>1790492
It's decent but you also have to live in Vancouver so eh...
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>>1795952
>>1796098

Ottawa's decent (I've lived here all my life and basically taken every type of transport possible) but the O-train has been a massive mess. As in, the wheels cracked under the strain of how many people took it because they FORGOT TO ACCOUNT FOR IT.

We're definitely a pretty good city for it, especially because we tend not to have the worse traffic, but I'd probably put is more on the level of something like, i dunno, Minneapolis than an actually good city for transport like New York.

Here's hoping though
>>
I've lived in Toronto and Montréal, never owned a car, both have been pretty good to me in terms of transit I especially love the streetcars of my home city
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>>1790026
this shit is nearly a decade old bro
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>>1789934
NYC has the best transit, Philadelphia unironically has the best potential to have the best transit doe
Too bad Philly just has shit politicians and an incompetent regional transit authority lmao
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>>1805241
Also people getting beaten, raped, and robbed in trains.
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>>1805250
Nah violence on SEPTA is surprisingly rare even compared to NYC, most of the chimpening happens in the ungentrified blocks between Strawberry Mansion, Germantown and Kensington lol
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>>1795816
>I don't know as much about Canada but Trudeau literally ran on transit expansion in 2015 and I haven't seen the results of it.
Do you live under a rock? Trudeau poured billions of dollars on multiple transit projects across the country. With many of them coming to fruition. Whatever your opinion are of him, the dude is super supportive of transit projects.
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>>1789934
>What is the best city in NA, transportwise?
>Is NA improving?
In 10 years Toronto will have a good transit system even by international standards I'd say. Right now I would say it's decent all things considered but it needs heavy investment to get it up to international standards. Just recently it's started to get huge amounts of money committed towards that though and I am pretty optimistic about it.

Right now
>Regional rail system connecting the suburbs and adjacent urban centres, uses heavy rail, powered by diesel trains, run on old freight lines primarily (it needs to maintain compatibility with freight trains due to this fact and the fact that it doesn't own all of the rail it's running service on)
>Areas further out are serviced by a regional bus service operated by the same network.
>Metro lines are focused on getting people from the outskirts of the city to the downtown core, few stations that have interchanges with other lines or networks
>Subway service is typically around 5am-2am the next day (first and last ride down the line starts around these times) with a reduced schedule on Sundays
>There are a set of street car and tram lines that cover most of the old downtown core, most of them share the road with cars but some have dedicated lanes and platforms
>Frequent (<15 min) bus service on most/all 2 lane roads (2 in each direction) within city limits
>Payment is integrated with most or all transit networks in the metro area, fares let you travel for 2 hours unlimited, or distance based if you use the regional rail
>Express train on a different line/operation directly from the Airport to Union station

1/2
>>
Coming
>In the downtown core they are building two new metro lines, one is 15km long and cuts across from the southwest diagonally to the center-east to meet the existing east-west line and up to meet the new east-west line. The new east-west line is 20km and will connect the "midtown" and is parallel to the existing east-west line. This one is built with light rail and will link up with the major Airport in the northwest of the city. Both new lines will interchange with several existing stops and parts of the regional network, creating a bunch of interchanges that will relieve pressure on Union and the existing junctions. There are also several planned extensions of existing metro lines to fill some gaps in the network
>Signalling improvements decongesting the existing rail network
>Regional rail network will be electrified and outfitted with trains that will run 140km/h with service every 15 min and short headways, having relatively fast average speeds that will roughly halve commute times on these trains.
>Suburban towns/cities have their own BRT or LRT projects in the works linking up to regional rail stops along with their own bus services
>Regional railway network expanding outwards
>It will also convert some of the stops outside of Union into interchanges
>Airport is going to get connected by several different services (metro, bus, trains), and the express train to downtown will likely get converted to the standards of the rest of the network
>Dedicated high speed rail (200km/h) line is in the early stages of being built between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec City
>New Highway that will create basically a belt loop around the city and likely be the "stop" point of any further highway expansion in the Toronto area because we have a green belt and a lot of opposition to paving over it
>Underground walkway network under the downtown is continuously expanding, now 20 miles long. Likely to continue because we are growing upwards instead of outwards now.
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>>1789951
Mexico City
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>>1789951
Detroit.
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NYC first in terms of size and scope, you can go to *most* places via transit but yes, there are many ongoing problems like maintenance and ancient signals. I'd say NYC is also pretty well connected with rail with LIRR, Metro-North, NJT, and PATH. The bus system is massive but full of problems, I've personally had many hit or miss experiences with it. Sometimes I get to my destination faster or easier than I expected via a bus, other times it was in fact faster if I walked instead. There is a lot more potential with bus lanes or better enforcement, and on the horizon in perhaps 5-10 years we could get an actual new rail line (the IBX) to make a currently underserved connection. Philly also has a decent network with lines stretching pretty far out via the regional rails, Norristown Highspeed, or the trolley network. I still find it surprising though that there is just broad street to service the entire southern half of the city, it seems way overdue to fix it. There's some real wastelands down there that perhaps new connections would help improve.
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>>1789934
I'm in the Twin Cities area and it's actually not *that* bad, and this isn't even one a "top 10" area or such. Wikipedia ranks Minneapolis 46th by population and the Twin Cities "urban area" 16th in the US (not counting Canada/Mexico).
Minneapolis especially has pretty good bus coverage and biking can be pretty good, also two LRT lines but the majority of transit is by bus around here. Once you get out in the suburbs travel times can be pretty painful (1:30+ vs 0:30 by car), but you can usually still get anywhere you'd want to go in 2 transfers or fewer and less than a half mile walk, maybe not great but it gets by.
And the experience isn't bad, I've rarely had a bus more than maybe 3 minutes late, $2.00~2.50 fares, free Wi-Fi with decent speeds on all busses, many have USB ports along the walls, etc. Not sure how that all compares to the rest of the US but I find it's not so bad here.

Honestly the biggest problem with transit here is just the stigma around not owning or driving a car, only *poor people* would ride a bus! bikers? hogging my road! As if more people not in cars isn't the best thing that could happen to the people who do still want/need cars, that person on a bike sure does use a lot less road space than the 5 cars you're stuck behind...
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>>1790492
I've lived in Vancouver without a car for twelve years. It's has excellent cycling infrastructure by NA standards. The buses are decent. The Skytrain is nice but I wish the network was a lot bigger. There has been a huge demand for a line down Broadway for twenty years and construction is only now getting started. Nimbys also stop densification around the stations, so a lot of them are weirdly surrounded by suburban houses.
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>>1807115
Don't forget the Roosevelt Blvd subway line that has been on and off construction for more than a century that would finally give coverage to Northeast and North Central Philly, but Septa decides instead to build the fuckin King of Prussia extension into the suburbs where there's less demand lol
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>>1792097
kek
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>>1796095
takes you where you need to go in a reasonable amount of time and connects to other modes of transportation well. for the best possible example (but not really fair), see tokyo.
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>>1789934
Obviously yes
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>>1790025
>San Francisco
Have you ever actually tried to get around SF without a car? Because I have, and it's really shit.
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>>1792106
return to horse-transit
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>>1789934
>What is the best city in NA, transportwise?
With the new runway at the international airport there, it's Godthab.
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bump
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Sorry /n/, but I'm not interested in redeeming anything at this point unless there is first a huge change in the social and policing policies of our country. I used to be big on public transit stuff, but now with the influx of mentally ill homeless, the lack of institutionalization and subsequent enabling of them, combined with increased immigration and the blm policies letting niggers run wild without consequence, transport in Toronto is going downhill fast and even the people in denial are now seeing it after this last shocking incident. I'm not interested in being a martyr for a place that won't uphold their end of the bargain which is the basic functions of making transport pleasant and safe for the people who choose to use it. I can only Imagine how people in nogged out American cities feel as well.
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>>1810376
Ive got a trip

1. try another mode of transportation
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>>1814289
This is precisely why the southern USA, the part most heavily infested with niggers, also has the worst public transit.
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>>1789951
USA
>Washington DC, NYC, Boston, San Francisco, Chicago
Canada
>Montreal, Vancouver, Toronto
Mexico
>Mexico City
All usable without a car
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>>1814423
>DC
metro as a system is pretty good, but is poorly run by incompetent fools, and even with it being decent it does nothing to help with the traffic
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>>1789951
Guadalajara, here's a recently pedestrianized avenue in the center of the city: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_7j5P1_EJk
>>
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>>1814289
It's a negative feedback loop. Normalfags don't ride transit so it becomes daycare centres for niggers since there's not enough normalfags to complain about it. Stories like what you posted hit the news and convinces normalfags to ride transit even less so it becomes an even bigger shithole and so on. This has effectively killed the LRT system in Edmonton, is doing serious damage to transit in Vancouver and Chicago, and transit in cities like St. Louis and Baltimore are now almost exclusively used by immigrants, poorfags, and the mentally ill.



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