The only thing that offers anything close to the freedom of a bicycle is a frequent 24/7 transit route.
>>1740633>blocks your path
What cities really need is a mix of cycling, walking, scooters, rail, busses, airports and cars. But cagers want to block everything that’s not for cars or airplanes.
>>1740634studded tire chads stay winningalso, in my city the bike paths get cleared before the roads even do
>>1740634Blocks most of the car unequipped with specific tires. Same as bicycles as >>1740642 already stated.>>1740633I agree only for plain areas. When you start having 100- 200 meters hills all over the place you need to start thinking to upgrade to e-bikes or proper motorbikes. Not everyone can do inclines (old or fat people for example).
You’re still at the mercy of whoever runs the transit routes. Get a ‘90s MTB from a good brand and a few bins of spare parts and tools and you have guaranteed go-anywhere transport for life.
>>1740633That’s technically true but they’re just so retardedly slow that bike kind of suck for getting around, especially in a city with tons of stop signs and stop lights making you constantly have to slow down and speed up again. And honestly, sometimes I just don’t feel like doing 30 minutes of manual labor to go to my friends house in a different neighborhood of the city, especially not when the weathers bad.
>>1740634It doesn't snow here as often as I'd like, but when it does, myself and 3-4 friends get together and ride/skid down this one ravine street. One-way, twisty, fun.
Mate I live 30 miles away from any small town and 10 from another house?Why would either a bike or a transit route be effective for me over the cage?
>>1740633>slow>exhausting>bulky>require special memelanes to ride on>parking and theft problems
>>1740656stop signs? stop lights? what are those?I live in nyc and just ignore those most of the timeunless there's a car on direct collision course the light can eat a dick
>>1740672>slowI hold a pretty much constant 10-15mph on the bike and stop much less than a car in my city, and generally travel times are even faster than our MTA transit system which is apparently the best in the world.>exhaustingstop being a little bitch or go hit up /fit/. I ride to and from work daily 15 miles round trip and barely work up a sweat.>bulkyand a car isn't? are you stupid?also small foldable bikes exist, moron.>require special memelanes to ride onthe fuck they do, pal. Maybe if you're a little stupid bitch who pisses their pants at the sound of a passing car or some geezer telling you to get of the sidewalk then yes, but if you're a non faggot the lanes are optional.>parking and theft problemsretard, you can lock your bike ANYWHERE. I have never looked for bike parking for more than a minute in my life but I remember several instances of looking for car parking for over 10 minutes.so basically your only somewhat valid point is that they're easy to steal but even that can be negated by parking next to a store with visible cameras and using a good lock on the frame and both wheels.you're a fucking idiot, seethe.
>>1740674Not everyone is a 20 something mashing around everywhere in some premium rush larp.>>1740675He’s right though. It fucking sucks that you have to do a 30 minute workout just to go three miles, plus the mental exertion of having to steer and brake and avoid pedestrians and obstacles not to mention your taint getting pounded with every crack you hit and your jeans getting worn through in the crotch area, perpetually sore wrists and back pain that will stick with you forever from that little pothole you missed. And then when you finally get to work, before you can walk your sweaty, stinky body into the office you have to look around for the perfectly sized pole to lock up on because your bike is way too big and dirty to just bring inside, and when it’s finally locked up after 10 minutes, someone with an angle grinder takes it in 30 seconds. And then you buy a car.
>>1740678This reads like fetish material
>>1740678Not 20, not on a nice bike.He's not right, nothing you said applies to me.I get to work 7 or so miles from my house in 30 minutes and barely exert myself, although I do have a lot of practice.Mental exertion from steering and braking? are you fucking retarded or a trainfag because forms of transportation that don't involve steering, braking, and avoiding pedestrians are pretty rare in most cases and inconvenient in all.If your taint hurts from riding a bike just get a better seat you neanderthal.Sore wrists and back pain from potholes aren't a problem if you know how to properly ride a bike and have a bike with a suspension.Before you even say it, because I know you're dumb enough to, bikes with suspensions often cost the same as their gay ass road bike counterparts and the weight difference is ~2lb.Deodorant/antiperspirants exist and if you're not an overweight out of shape NEET absolute waste of oxygen or live out in the country where the closest store is 15 miles away you won't be noticeably sweaty or stinky when you arrive.Why does the pole have to be a certain size? I fucking locked my bike to an unused door the other day, fuckhead.If you have a properly secure lock, or multiple thick chained kryptonite locks like I use your bike is pretty much guaranteed to be safe, and I live in new york fucking city. you should kill yourself.
>>1740684You spend an hour a day commuting by bike? When was the last time you saw your urologist? What do you do when your coworkers are going out after work?>Hey anon, come to the bar with us after work!Uuuh ok *spends 5 minutes unlocking bike**walks bike with coworkers and keeps hitting them with the handlebars*S-sorry>Alright we’re here!*spend another 10 minutes trying to find the right size pole to lock up on*Ok I’m done >Actually we’re gonna Uber to this other place why don’t you… oh your bike… next time!*rides home alone like every day, though back hurts just a little more than usual*
>>1740633Im not riding a bike in -20 weather.
>>1740636>any road wider than two lanes in a single direction is too wide>freeways are useless and inefficient>cars don't belong on side streets>reeeeee parking lots>cyclists can break any law, what are you going to do about it, faggot>speed limits are too fast, they need to be reduced>etc. etc.>WTF WHY DO SELFISH CAGERS HATE MY IDEAS SO MUCH
>>1740633>just leave it anywhere there is a secure structure you can attach it toThat's a good way to get your bicycle impounded.>and even if someone does steal it, it's so inexpensive you could literally just buy another no problemEven if it's a cheap Walmart bike (which is probably assembled wrong and has a heavy steel frame), you'd be dropping $100 or so each time you lose it.>if entire cities were designed around these the way they are with cars, everyone would be fine with itI doubt the garbage bicycle would be very useful. A fire department showing up on bicycles an hour late would not be very useful either.
>>1740633>freedom>bicycleGotta run an errand? There goes two hoursWant to do something across town? There goes your entire afternoon.Snowing? Triple the travel time and btw enjoy the hypothermia.Sick or physically hurt? Triple the travel time AND the suffering.Sick enough that you can't ride at all? Gotta pay a filthy cagie to take me places.Want to travel to a different city? Gotta pay a cagie.Need to haul anything over 20 pounds? Gotta pay a cagie.Need to move? Gotta pay a cagie.It's summer and you'll lose your job if you show up to work sweating like a pig again? Enjoy unemployment.Want to have a girlfriend who isn't also poor and borderline-homeless? Lol.
>>1740633It's simple. People feel the need to justify their purchases and cars with all of their extra expenses require constant justification in order to seem like a good idea.
>>1740688That's a very odd criticism/ fantasy scenario. You could just leave your bike at work / somewhere in the same way you would leave your car. the bike has the big advantage for going out drinking really because unlike a car, you can still ride it
>>1740753you must be 18 to post on 4chan
>>1740688the projection lmao. we're not all (you)
>>1740753>Gotta run an errand?>There goes two hours>living in the middle of nowhereuncivilized opinions belong in the trash bin
>>1740789I know all that stuff because I used to be like you, doing everything on a bike. Then I got a car and my biking everywhere days are a fun memory, but I could never go back. Why would I?
>>1740794That being said, getting a car for errands and commuting made me actually enjoy cycling again, and I still do it all the time.
There is little biking infrastructure. I live in a major city (Orlando) and you literally cannot get around on anything that isn't a car or motorcycle, I've tried. >Get electric scooter >Decide to try to be more eco >Try to take it down to tractor supply company for some bulk pet food>Can't even get there. >There is no sidewalk that will take me all the way to tractor supply >Bike lane is suicide since everyone drives in it >Every road is a stroad>Every bike lane is pained on >Busses are a joke even if you wanted to be eco. I'm convinced that car companies are bribing city planners. No one should be this dependant on a car. Especially in the state with the third highest car insurance rates
freedom is an idea for brainlets
>>1740678>30 minute workout just to go three milesJust how fat are you?>your taint getting pounded with every crack you hit and your jeans getting worn through in the crotch area, perpetually sore wrists and back pain that will stick with you forever from that little pothole you missedJust how FAT are YOU?How do people go without at least semi regular exercise? Even I'm a pretty lazy fuck, I love my video games and shit, but I still need my bike, or at least to go on walks all the time.
>>1740753>Gotta run an errand? There goes two hoursWant to do something across town? There goes your entire afternoon.Extremely pudgy hands typed this post and the mass of lard they were attached to was probably sweating like a pig as his summer line was from experience because you're fat.
>>1740790How slow are you bro? It's actually faster on my bike for some trips because I can skip traffic lights and cut through parking lots.
>>1741087>sweating like a pig as his summer lineLol, he doesn't even KNOW about A/C
>>1741141>help I'm fat turn the A/C onWhen you're able bodied all you need is the wind blowing against you to be cool man
>>1741146>He doesn’t even know about heated seats
>>1740987>robust public transit means fewer driversNot necessarily. Except in very rare cases along certain corridors, "invest in public transit" means giving bus riders nicer rides (at best) or letting criminals have easy access to your own neighborhood (at worst).
>>1740794cool story, we still all aren't (you).
>>1741174>letting criminals have easy access to your own neighborhood (at worst).there is no statistical correlation between crime and transit locations
>>1741214https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0166046215000071>Closing one station reduces crime by 5% in the vicinity of stations on the same train line. Most of this effect remains after controlling for decreased ridership, indicating that a decrease in the availability of victims does not drive most of our results. We find suggestive evidence that crime falls more at stations that tend to import crime, i.e. stations where perpetrators are less likely to live. We also see larger decreases at stations on the same line when the transit authority closes stations that tend to export crime.
>>1741216Effect of Rail Transit on Crime: A Study of Los Angeles from 1988 to 2014 (Macdonald and Ridgeway, 2014) (system thinks your post is spam)>We find no evidence that transit station openings or disruptions in transit due to strikes result in changes in crime in surrounding neighborhoods.Randomly opening and closing stations had no effect on crime https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/681558>There is often public worry that expanded public transit in cities willbring crime to neighborhoods (Poister 1996).18 After all, public transitallows individuals who do not own cars to travel longer distances cheaply.Transit may increase ease of access to criminal opportunities and payoffsfrom crime. Expanding bus and rail routes may increase crime in relativelylow-crime areas. However, most research has focused on the built envi-ronment around transit stops that make them more or less susceptibleto crime, and not on whether the presence of transit itself produces crime.Studies with quasi-experimental designs provide little evidence that tran-sit itself is a major generator of crime. Transit expansion may reducecrime by altering other features of the built environment.
>>1741217So what they're saying is niggers are soooo lazy they won't even go somewhere else to commit crime?
>>1740688>>Hey anon, come to the bar with us after work!I have been meaning to ask this for a while but haven't found the right thread. From your post I assume you were suggesting the other option, instead of cycling, was to drive to the bar. Do Americans just drive drunk whenever they want to go to the bar? I know you love to bitch about cycling, but I figured that was mainly for internet clout and when you really couldn't drive, say when you're under the influence, you'd just suck it up and dust off the bike. Am I misguided?
>>1740744lol i didn't read this as ironic until the last meme arrow. Really thought you were onto some good points there for a minute.
>>1741217My study is more recent than yours, guess things changed!If we’re using old studies though, this one is a classic:>Block & Block’s analysis – shown left - all but confirmed this theory’s application to transit hubs, finding that criminal activity peaked 1.5 -2 blocks from stations.
>>1741259why are u using the colour black to show crime
>>1740753Life's about the journey, not the destination
>>1741154>help I need a heated seat to sooth my butthurt from cyclists
>>1741393>He doesn’t even know about adaptive cruise control
>>1741259>My study is more recent so I win! Mine was a natural experiment RCT that randomly opened and closed stations. Yours was a quasi experimental design that didn't account for design of stations. It isn't the existence of a transit station it is the design thereof.
>>1741924Sounds like you're describing this study >>1741216
https://collected.jcu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1003&context=jep#:~:text=Using%20a%20fixed%2Deffect%20model,property%20crime%20in%20surrounding%20neighborhoods.>Using a fixed-effect modeland a pooled OLS, evidence from the models shows that the bus increased the mean property crime rate inthe area by approximately 2.8% and 1.4%. Both results from the different methods support the view thatpublic transit increases property crime in surrounding neighborhoods
>>1741933You need to learn the difference between statistical and practical significance
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2352146517304362>It is demonstrated that mass transit and crimes are closely related in San Francisco. On the macro level, the extension direction of whole crimes and the BART service alignment are similar. On the meso-level, BART stations are significantly correlated with most types of crimes. No matter in the downtown area or not, the neighborhoods around stations are high criminal regions. On the micro level, crimes tend to cluster obviously around the stations.
freedom is obviously having a bicycle and a car at the same time, bicycling rocks for a lot of things but long distance, shit weather, or hauling shit = use the car. neither modes of transport are one size fit all
>>1740987>Especially in the state with the third highest car insurance ratesSolutions:Lower insurance rates by the law (eat this finfacial parasites who doesn't work!)Subside cars for poorfag commies (commies love FREE stuff).
>>1740753A bike is faster than a car where I live during most of the day when there's a lot of traffic. The rest can be addressed by renting a car. It's still better to temporarily pay a cagie than to pay into the kike gas/insurance system on a daily basis.
>>1740678I used to bike to work, in the summer, in a full suit.
A car does not give you freedom, it gives you more speed (in comparison to the bicycle, within speed limits) and longer range before refueling. It does not give you more places to go to. A car is confined to a govfunded road system. Most of the countryside barring the govfunded nature preserves and the entire city barring the govfunded public spaces is private property, which you will probably have no reason to go to in this lifetime. The majority of the city's buildings you will never see the interior of. The majority of the countryside, what is left of it anyways after 50+ years of crop dusting with insecticide and swamp draining and tree chopping etc. is protected by their tenants, who will undoubtedly start laying lead when a strange car comes pulling up in their driveway.A car actually restricts your freedom, you are legally obligated to maintain it and insure it, you can be pulled over for no reason, you are tracked more easily by street surveillance and license plates, and of course, you can't just leave it anywhere, it has to be parked in a proper place or be towed. With a bike, you can just ditch it and run. A bike has no system of registration, no license, no regulation of safety in either parts or operation except in some nanny states. You can pull it over fences, hide it easier, and ride off road more manuverably. In shortautos- you can't do fun shit with your wage machine, and if you do illegally, it is easier to get caught- you have to constantly pay and maintain your auto- you are not granted more places with your car, just in theory more geographically distant places. But how often does someone just drive without a place in mind?bicycle- trespassing is easier and aided - escaping is easier and aided - you don't have to worryThis is why the bicycle is king big dickOf course, both is preferable, but I think biking should be made easier with proper dedicated bike paths.
>>1742113>it's easier to be a criminal on a bicycle
>>1741255>Do Americans just drive drunkthey drink one (1) 330ml light beer
>>1742113Idk when I got a car I could go to way more places in my city that weren’t in my immediate neighborhood and hang out with people on the other side of town with ease. I’m pushing 25 now and I have a good job so I don’t really think about doing stuff like crimes, hopping fences etc.
>>1742113With a car, you can go anywhere you want.
>>1741255I’m fine to drive after 2 or 3 beers spaced out, if I plan to get really drunk I would just Uber to the bar and back
>>1742169How much is a taxi? I imagine you're not going a short distance if the only option is driving. Must start to add up if you wanna drink 2-3 times per week.
>>1742172It’s not really that bad, around 10 bucks each way, less if you split it with people. It costs way less than the actual drinks themselves. Here in the US that’s what everyone does pretty much, Uber everywhere. https://youtu.be/BcyFJLrBVhA
>>1740633The solution nobody here wants, but fixes all the problems people have with bikes, is pedal-assist bikes.When you can keep at a constant 25 mph no trip should be long unless you need to go to an entire different city (which I can count how often I have to do that a year on one hand.)You don't have to get sweaty or tired if you don't want to, but you're still doing more for yourself than sitting in a car.The things are usually designed off of mountain bikes so it's not like a little snow on the road is gonna stop you.The only problem is you lose out on some of the cheapness factor but it's still a hell of a lot less than a car.
>>1742274it only solves one of the problems, weakasses who can't ride up a 2% incline. it doesn't solve for theft, shit weather, getting turned into paste by drivers, etc.
>>1742273This chart doesn't necessarily imply that Russia has few drunk drivers. The other and far more likely interpretation is that Russians drive as batshit retarded sober as they do drunk.
>>1740688>we’re gonna Uber to this other place why don’t you>why yes i'll definitely hold on to the window of the uber and ride along with youdon't get whats the point of visiting multiple places in a night unless you're a sex worker or something or PUA
>>1740753So you're weak and a fatass? Ok, I'm not, problem solved
>>1740753>Pays for car, pays for license, pays for insurance, pays road tax, pays for gas, pays for maintenance, pays for oil, pays to clean it. Permanently tied down by the government, instantly trackable by government.Yes. Freedom.
>>1749365The prisoner is free, who does not wish to leave his cell.
>>1742172>Worst countries for drunk driving>Percentage of accidents involving alcoholShouldn't it be per-capita drunk driving accidents? A high ratio of drunk driving accidents to other accidents might actually suggest safe drivers, since many crashes would be caused by intoxication.