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I want to believe
>>
acela
>>
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>SOVLFVL HSR
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One day, OP. One day. (stubbing out cigarette moodily)
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>>1736826
Sovl
>>1736825
Soulless
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>>1736825
>order train
>carriages and locos don't match
>god bless america
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>>1736825
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It will happen eventually. It gets more support as climate change becomes more and more relevant politically.
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>>1737002
The Great Depression and the New Deal were the genesis of the Interstates; imagine doing the same again, version 2.0, a century later.
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>>1737009
You’re forgetting how the Second World War factored into it.
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>>1736931
>be alstom
>sell train made out of random leftover inventory to muttrack
>diversity hires too dumb to notice the engine and cars don't match
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>>1737040
why cant i hold all this rent free
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>>1736826
these trains are just 20 years old and already need to be replaced while the much older Amfleets are still doing fine?
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>>1736931
I hope this gets solved by the addition of aerodynamic fairings on the locomotive so that we can call it the designated fitting bulge
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>>1737085
what else in the fleet is that old? the P42s are being replaced and the sprinters are only like 6-8 years old right now.
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>>1736931
>gangway connection cooling air intake
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>>1737188
you would expect that at least their electric locomotives would be able to run longer, but reading the former rolling stock list makes me how is this even possible
>GE E60, 950–975, 1974–2003, Electric Units, plagued by derailment problems at high speed.
>Bombardier/Alstom HHP-8, 650–664, 1999–2014, Electric, Suffered from low reliability problems. All locomotives stored; replaced by the Siemens ACS-64.
>>
>mogs every other NEC locomotive
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>>1736931
I love how the passenger car has an aerodynamic fairing that transitions the car's round roof shape to a more boxy shape towards the locomotive, and the locomotive's roof is actually round. Peak burgerpunk.
>>
The amulets are falling apart. Literally using duct tape to hold doors shut and every single roof leaks.
>>
Amfleets
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>>1737040
Also,
>sells push-pull trains when EMUs are more efficient and has better acceleration/deceleration because mutts are so technologically backward that EMUs are too advanced for them
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>>1737642

American railroading tradition doesn't like MUs because they can't be easily swapped and moved as needed. It took until 2018 for Amtrak to even consider it systemwide and even then it's an optional buy-in that only California, Washington and Illinois did. Everyone else wants the ability to put a car out of service on the spot without issues. EMUs add important shit like motors and control systems that have to actually be inspected, and that's a lot of work.
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>>1737642
To be fair, I can't make fun of them on that because even French high speed trains are still locomotive pulled.
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Amtrak tested a Danish DMU in the 90s, the Flexliner. It had its share of problems and Amtrak decided not to purse it. So the idea has been tested and rejected. No real advantage for long haul trains and a lot of drawbacks when the entire national system is built around using locomotives.
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>>1737384
what a fugly logo
>>
i might actually vote for buttigieg if he can get it done
but he won't
but he'll be appointed president anyway
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>>1736827
The sad thing is that most Amtrak schedules are slower than late steam/early diesel express trains. Companies took a lot of pride in their flagship trains and woe to the lowly employee who fucked up the schedule.
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>>1737742
Maybe due to shit like mass adoption of cars and interstate wasn't a thing back then?
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>>1737729
PC worms logo is based
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sorry for getting political but wouldn't it be wiser to re-structure the states in a more geographically sound manner to undermine or minimise the downsides of HSR in north america (those downsides being that HSR does not make sense for north american geography, as states that could benefit from it are poor) kind of like gerrymandering

Also ond of the main costs and limitations of HSR is the purchasing of land in high density cities so giving the government the right to seize land like france and china did would be a huge help to the cause, ethics asides of course.

besides, the USA already has developed high speed transportation in the form of the UTACV as part of the high speed ground transportation act of 1965 which has the benefit of a relatively low cost for the ground infrastructure (another economic limitation to hsr)
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also apologies for reddit spacing, i forgot to mention how westernmost states with high concentrations of federal land may more easily benefit from a federally funded high speed ground transportation project on account of the land not having any private owners, however this really depends on which administration owns the land, i don't know what I'm talking about here
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>>1737979
in this map we see that the federal government literally owns all of californias coast. Couldn't they just extend that claim 50 meters inland and connect the major coastal cities with all that land?
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>>1737976
>wouldn't it be wiser to re-structure the states in a more geographically sound manner
Structuring the western states around watersheds is the only answer that makes sense and Powell proposed it like 150 years ago.
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>>1737985
this is a great concept but states are still all square and also river transport is falling out sadly
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>>1737771
The Interstates hurt but it was the airlines that killed long distance rail travel. There was no incentive to run fast passenger trains and freight was prioritized. Amtrak is the red headed stepchild sharing tracks with private railroad companies who find the one or two trains a day to be a nuisance.
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>>1736825
Cool! Now we can have high-speed derailments and drunk-driving overspeed and failure to stop/heed signals horrific crashes.
Wrong Track is pathetic and needs to be put out of its misery.
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>>1738027
unclear if arguing against trains or automobiles. lol
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>>1738034
Trains
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>>1736825
Too late. The cyclists pushed hard for the 'rails to trails' initiatives. Scooped up all the unused, straight, level right-of-ways and made bike trails out of them.
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>>1738143
At least in MA the railroads still maintain rights to at least some of the trails. However it’s pretty unlikely they will ever be used
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>>1737034
Just wait for the Sino-American war
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>>1737976
>wouldn't it be wiser to re-structure the states in a more geographically sound manner
I assume you’re a Euro because this (maybe unfortunately?) just isn’t how the US works. It’s not a single country subdivided into 50 states, it’s 50 separate states glommed together into one big country. It’s like saying that Spain and Portugal should really just merge already because it’s all one peninsula, it just doesn’t make sense in reality.
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>>1738292
not a euro, American living in europe.
Just a geography addict who is upset at ugly geometric borders in the USA, canada, sahara, etc
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>>1736825
How long until you can load your car/lorry in one of these just like you can load your car/lorry in the channel tunnel?
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>>1738688
About 40 years ago give or take a decade.
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>>1738688
You already can. Car trains are based and I would unironically ride them a lot of we had them in the US. and I say this as a cagetroll
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>train can go 220 mph
>tracks can handle 40
absolute state of Amtrak
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>>1736911
Someday we'll bring those days back, anon.
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>>1738460
>ugly geometric borders in the USA, canada, sahara
The arbitrary lines in the sand are often quite literally in piles of sand where nobody lives. There are a few obvious adjustments that should be made - southeast Idaho and the Arizona Strip joining Utah, Colorado trading the upper Rio Grande Valley to New Mexico in exchange for the high-plains portions of that state, but by and large they're not that bad. Pic related is the four corners - I see no reason why moving it a dozen miles this way or that would really help anything. I guess you could realign it to follow the San Juan river, but all that does is promotes jurisdictional fights over water rights.
>the states that could benefit from it are poor
Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, and California are poor?
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>>1738460
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>>1739210
>wtf why is the train decelerating into the station
>>
RETVRN
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>>1739250
>express train
>stops at every podunk town on the way
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>>1739330
I don't think that's related to track speed, anon. I think you are getting mixed-up.
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>>1739241
How it should have been.
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>>1736825
>American hi-speed train
>built on European tech
lewl, I can't believe you guys had top-notch railroads before WW2 like the PRR, NYC and after the war you struggled with building a high-speed rail
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>>1739533
𐐎𐐨'𐑊 𐐺𐑉𐐮𐑍 𐑄𐐬𐑆 𐐼𐐴𐑆 𐐺𐐪𐐿, 𐐺𐐲𐐻 𐐶𐐮𐑃 𐐌𐐼𐐲𐐸𐐬 𐐮𐑌𐑅𐐻𐐯𐐼 𐐲𐑂 𐐢.𐐂.
>>
Have other boards succumbed to foreign shilling as much as this one?
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What, specifically, do you feel is being shilled; and by whom.
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>>1739227
I think I meant to say that the states that would benefit from having reorganised borders are poor but I honestly don't remember at this point
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>>1739227
I feel like the Arizona strip would be easy to cede to Utah because barely anybody lives there and tourism bucks are probably 0 outside of people paying for gas at Jacob Lake. Just move the border south to follow the Colorado from Page all the way to where Lake Mead begins.

I'm not sure what you'd do for southeastern Idaho.
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>>1740451
Arizona would be fucking hard as shit due to the elevation shift as you go north. HSR would be a snails pace up and a snails pace down, along we constant delays for dust storms and the shit snowstorms that sweep through that elevation change.
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>>1740468
Alas, poor anon. He thought this thread didn't get derailed faster than the average American freight train
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>>1739210
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>>1737108
>call it the designated fitting bulge
>designated
There's even an /n/-approved, Pajeet aerodynamics engineer, but somehow the pieces don't fit.
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>>1740615
i first thought the joke was you had turned the graph upside-down. lol
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>>1736825
No and fuckoff
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>>1740539
because thats gentrification and its rAcIsMe
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>>1736825
Hey burgers, we offered to sell you these but you refused.
You did this to yourself.
>250km/h HSR built by the swedish state
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHEtxi5bQk0
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>>1741656
Top speed literally doesn’t matter at all, average speed is the only thing that matters
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>>1741656
The problem is the track, not the trains >>1739210
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As gas prices keep climbing there will always be more support for transit.
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>>1737979
Interesting contribution, thanks
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>>1741658
>>1741659
This train does 250km/h where normal trains do 130km/h because it tilts around curves.
It is purpose built to go fast around curves.
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I'm genuinely surprised that Amtrak didn't use any Acela trains on the Keystone corridor until now.
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>>1737979
Yeah let’s build complicated rail infrastructure through untouched national parks, that would be awesome man!!
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>>1736825
Might make limited sense along the coasts.
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>>1737979
Why would you build passenger-rail where there are no passengers?
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>>1741767
not all of federal land is composed of untouched national parks anon. in fact a large amount of it is land leased to private companies to gather raw resources via logging/mining (this is usually done via the BLM or USFS). As far as I know the only "untouched" or otherwise virgin lands are owned by the national parks service which only owns the light green in this map

>>1742201
the reason there are no hypothetical passengers is because it's almost a legal impossibility to live on federal land. It could even be argued that the us federal government in its refusal to give federal land to the westernmost states is what led to these states having such a low population density outside of the coastal regions (which are natural environments of human settlement).
It's always a possibility that keeping human development down in the west is better for nature but we'd need to see the NPS (national park service) gain a lot of land to make the nature preservation argument
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>>1736825
Remove nimby regulations
Remove rent seekers who want money to get the project moving
Remove barriers to competition
Award contracts based upon performance rather than delays (aside from those outside of company's control like NIMBY/regulations/etc)
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>>1742206
>As far as I know the only "untouched" or otherwise virgin lands are owned by the national parks service
You'd be wrong. The forest service and BLM also administer designated wilderness / roadless areas.
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>>1742278
thanks for the education anon!
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Name one (1) reason not to build HSR here, it's literally the perfect place in America for it.
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>>1742366
It would let the Irish Americans in Boston visit other cities. Is that what you want?
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>>1742366
I don't understand how the segment between trenton and newark isn't rated for 186+mph

ITS FUCKING STRAIGHT, it's like every planner's wet dream. WTF is wrong with new jersey??
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>>1742396
Ancient track, power supply issues, signalling issues...
>>
>originally build entire identity of the country around trains going west
>some rich guy bribes politicians into building car infrastructure only
>suddenly there are no trains, the symbol of the country
How could American culture fuck up so badly?
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>>1742442
hindsight being 20/20 etc doesn't mean there's a vast conspiracy
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>>1742446
It's not a conspiracy, the oil industry just had a massive influence on American politics in the early 20th century, and they had a vested interest in roads being built so more cars could drive around. And since roads were built for cars, there was little reason to build more tracks for trains (or maintain those that were already there) and as a result culture developed around the car. I'm not saying this was mallicious intent, I'm just saying it sucks and it is kinda weird that it happened when the USA started out as the train country.
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>>1742446
doesn't mean there isn't one either
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>>1742448
tearing up tram tracks and overhead trolleybus catenaries, perhaps, but likewise expanding railroad networks would generate demand for diesel-powered locomotives. again, easy to say in hindsight, but still
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>>1742442
We have a bad habit of overdoing whatever we think constitutes Progress™ at the time. In 1960 that thing was the car.
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>>1742396
For a real reason, not enough power the lines are not tense enough and need to be replaced and possibly the supports. The base is not strong enough and rails are not strong enough. Additionally the inspection regimen would cost more and is presently unfunded. There is no signaling to support such speeds either but that isnt even one of the biggest reasons Amtrak lists.
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>>1742461
It still is the car. The car is a gigantic technological improvement and improves quality of life drastically
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>>1742476
I'm sorry you entered adulthood underdeveloped, anon.
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>>1742475
not at scale it doesn't
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>>1738143
Bike rail trails are mostly single-track ROWs though - not that useful for new rail projects. Do you really want your HSR to have grade crossings?
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>>1742442
An automobile is a train carriage that can go anywhere, leave whenever and be owned and operated by anybody. It's no surprise that trains are no longer the ultimate form of mechanized land transport in a capitalist economy.
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>>1742504
Hrm.
A car is more like the modern horse, except it needs a road.
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>>1742519
Autos are able to replace both the horse and the train. It has a lot of advantages from both, although trains still have a lot of uses.
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>>1742537
Yeah, trains are good at transporting a lot of something. Like goods, freight and people.
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>>1737002
Air lines will never let it happen.
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>>1742396
>>1742474
I spoke with an Amtrak engineer recently and was told that part of the rollout of this new Acela trainset was also going to be an across-the-board upgrade of the Class A (High Speed Tilting Train) timetable speeds in areas such as where you mentioned in New Jersey. What is currently ~130MPH in some areas will become 160 with the Avelia's next year.

One big advantage to the new trainset is they only have to run with one pantograph up for the whole train rather than the two the current Acela's require, which eliminates the need for the constant-tension catenary in a lot of areas due to the lack of reverberation in the wire between two raised pantographs.

Obviously it's all optimistic thinking but I think things are headed in a good direction here. Plenty of signalling and constant tension upgrades have also already been made in these areas.
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>>1737976
>Also ond of the main costs and limitations of HSR is the purchasing of land in high density cities so giving the government the right to seize land like france and china did would be a huge help to the cause, ethics asides of course.

eminent domain exists already anon
its just frowned upon because muh racisme
and the people pushing for rail in the US happen to be the ones who care about racisme more than anything
>>
>build the HSR station on the outskits of town, supported by rapid/on-demand local transit
>build HSR station in situ downtown, bore tunnels to reach the station

alternatives to 'draw a straight line between A and B and demolish everything in the way' exist
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>>1742484
A lot of them are old branch lines that would be useful as local/commuter services to support a larger HSR network, not that that's ever going to happen.
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>>1742396
>WTF is wrong with new jersey??
NJ Transit suffers from some absolute retards at the top.
>take over running trains from NYC to Philadelphia in 2005
>immediately truncate service to Trenton, ensuring the trains will always be empty south of New Brunswick

>receive funding to rebuild and run trains on the Lackawanna Cutoff in 2008
>lay 4 miles of track in several disconnected segments
>spend the next decade suing some farm for property access so you can replace a culvert that might overflow in a 100-year storm; end up paying the farm a fat settlement
>decide to build a new culvert somewhere else anyway
>the track you laid a decade ago is now fucked from sitting on the ground for 10 years with no ballast or maintenance
>service to the first new stop on the line is projected to begin in 2027

>need to build a new tunnel to Manhattan
>reach agreement to build it where NJ pays ~$2 billion
>cancel said agreement on account of the cost
>wait a decade
>reach a new agreement to build it
>NJ now contributes $5 billion

>cancel train service during Hurricane Sandy for fear of flooding
>park all the trains in your yard on the banks of the Hackensack River
>they all get ruined by floodwater
etc.
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Why are they so slow, bros? It's not even in the mountains.
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>>1745078
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>>1745079
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>>1737085
>burger train literally too fat for its brakes
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>>1739227
Connecticut and Massachusets have rearanged their border a bit to accomodate local populations.

>The notch in Connecticut's northern border, just above Granby, is sometimes called the "Southwick Jog".

>Following the Revolutionary War, in 1793, both states appointed Boundary Commissioners to run a straight boundary from Union, Connecticut to the New York state line. In 1797 the Commissioners recommended that a disputed 2.5 square mile tract be awarded to Massachusetts as compensation for its earlier losses of Suffield, Woodstock, Somers, and Enfield to Connecticut. However, it was not until 1804 that Connecticut agreed to yet another compromise that partitioned the 2.5 mile area at Congamond Lakes with Massachusetts receiving 5/8 of the disputed parcel along the west shore and Connecticut receiving the remainder, along the east shore.
https://libguides.ctstatelibrary.org/hg/maps/jog
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>>1743378
Apparently the speed change just went through albeit only to 150 so far, according to rr.net.

>December 17, 2021
>As a result of these improvements, FRA hereby approves Amtrak’s request to increase the maximum speed limit on the NEC, South End, from 135 mph to 150 mph for qualified1 ACSES II-equipped trainsets. All other conditions of FRA’s June 6, 2017, Conditional Certification of Amtrak’s ACSES II system certification remain in effect.
https://www.regulations.gov/document/FRA-2010-0029-0170
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>>1743612
>>need to build a new tunnel to Manhattan
>>reach agreement to build it where NJ pays ~$2 billion
TBF, that plan was retarded because the tunnel would have dead ended in NYC
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>>1742442
The interstate highway system was built for military purposes. Boosting the car industry was just a nice side effect.
During WWII the US bombed the shit out of Germany's railroad tracks, crippling their military logistics. They obviously didn't want to suffer the same fate if there was a war on US soil, so the interstates were created to transport military vehicles cross country.
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>>1746100
Because bombing tarmac is literally impossibru. Right?
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>>1746116
irrefutable
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>>1742474
jesus, the absolute state of our flagship electric rail corridor. This country is incapable of having trains exceed 110 mph.
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why is it that in the past we were able to build a ton of cute little grade separations like pic related everywhere, but now we are stuck with massive 100+ million dollar concrete overpasses?
https://caltrain-hsr.blogspot.com/2021/05/the-exploding-cost-of-grade-separations.html
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>>1746139
What would be the point of spending billions of dollars to make the train faster in the one part where it’s not accelerating or decelerating for a stop… it would probably shave like 5 minutes off of the whole travel time.
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>>1746145
No city would allow a railroad to build an underpass like that, although it's a shame. As long as the main streets have normal clearance or there are grade crossings as alternate routes, stuff like that should be encouraged.

A lot of the expensive grade sep projects come at a time and place where there's an intersection right next to the railroad crossing, and both roads are major roads. So you have to not only do the construction around current traffic but the overpass also has to be built very wide & often has relatively long beam spans, and normally a ton of earth moving has to be done to bring the adjacent roads up to the new grade level. I imagine a lot of those projects require eminent domain use as well.
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>>1746151
Simply absurd, that's how you end with CAHSR costing $100B+ for a straight line in the desert. We will literally never see a new fully grade separated ROW ever again.
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>>1746154
That's looks efficient, the local roads can go under the main road, and then use the bridge to get over the tracks. Three crossings with one structure. It's ugly though, but it's in the middle nowhere it seems so can't really fault it for that.
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>>1746155
Yeah the central valley segment is not so bad all things considered, they spammed the same design a dozen times and it's nice to separate the BNSF tracks. It's the urban grade separations that are costing literal gorillions because of all the stroads and intersections over the tracks.
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>>1746110
You can just drive around the damage. A train track is fucked and you have to unload everything and transfer it to a land vehicle. This is the same reason for the Autobahn but Germany couldn't finish it before the war ended
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>>1746110
It's easy to repair a road after it's been damaged
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>>1746147
because straightening track, upgrading line signals, grade separations yadda yadda, increase available capacity on track. like it doesnt matter how fast a train can go if it is in danger of being held up by another train, but by upgrading the infrastructure itself you can run more frequent trains, longer trains, different kinds of trains (intercity, regional, local trains) etc
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>>1737085
>these trains are just 20 years old and already need to be replaced

That's the fate of a lot of highspeed rolling stock. After around 15 years, they will need a midlife overhaul. If costs are too high or plans for expansions are made, it could make sense to just buy new rolling stock. Especially in the latter case it could make sense to not have to maintain two different types of rolling stock, more so if the overall fleet is rather small.

Also mind you that highspeed rolling stock can't be used as flexibly as common rolling stock. It's easier to repurpose some old locos than dedicated highspeed rolling stock.
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>>1746269
what? nonsense. you'll easily get 40+ years out of rolling stock, regardlss of whether it is high speed or not. trains are ordered and built with this expected lifespan, and with the understanding that they will almost certainly be refreshed and updated every 10-15 years as needs dictate.

throwing away perfectly good locos/MUs/coaches just because they're two decades old is like scrapping a car because its odometer rolled-over into six digits - incredibly wasteful.
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>>1746269
>Especially in the latter case it could make sense to not have to maintain two different types of rolling stock
and this is equally ridiculous. i think the point to your post is that high-speed stock and, e.g. commuter rail stock, are different. and, well, no shit? that doesnt mean you throw up your arms and say maintaning two types of train is just plain impossible because ehhhhh they're different!!.
>>
>>1746272
>>1746273
Wrong
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>>1746159
>>1746173
Ancient art of laying track is all but forgotten in Ameristan. Right? Jokes aside however...

1. Allied terror bombing did fairly low damage to railroads.
What was damaged was quickly repaired.
2. Even if roads are quicker to repair, crucial infrastructure, such as bridges, are not.

>>1746269
>That's the fate of a lot of highspeed rolling stock.

No, it is not. Heavily used rolling stock just needs regular overhauls ( 10-15 years ) because it wears down - especially interiors. But... TGV Pos have gotten between 37 to 42 years of service in them. Atlantique sets were built in late 80s and early 90s and are still run. ICE1 trains are still in service (30+ years) and are slated for withdrawal in late 2020s.

So. No. There is nothing special about HSR trains. They also are commonly used on secondary lines - like in France or Germany.

Acela is just a poorly made pork-pork and amtrak just wants to get rid of it ASAP.
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>>1746323
>TGV Pos
Correction: TGV SudEst.
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>>1746323
>Even if roads are quicker to repair, crucial infrastructure, such as bridges, are not.
It's easier to repair a road bridge than a rail bridge

>There is nothing special about HSR trains.
Just stop. You can find Shinkansen trains that had long service lives and some that barely made 20 years before they were withdrawn. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a lemon
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>>1746331
>You can find Shinkansen trains that had long service lives and some that barely made 20 years before they were withdrawn. Sometimes you get a good one and sometimes you get a lemon
what does this mean, exactly
>>
>>1746323
>Acela is just a poorly made pork-pork and amtrak just wants to get rid of it ASAP.
To be specific, the suspensions suck and the brakes suck, since due to FRA crash requirements, its a fucking tank. The Acela also beats the hell out of the tracks more than a conventional HST, which causes increased maintenance on the trackside too. The FRA has since eased the crash requirements so a lighter off the shelf trainset can be used for the Avelia replacement.
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>>1746336
>The FRA has since eased the crash requirements
About fuckin time
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>>1746333
sneed's feed and seed, formerly chuck's
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>>1746323
>amtrak just wants to get rid of it ASAP
yes, tripfag, they definitely absolutely want to get rid of the only profitable service they have on the biggest stretch of track that they own themselves. that's absolutely something real and not something you definitely, absolutely made up because you're retarded
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>>1746110
Cars work fine on bare dirt, you just have to smooth it out a little. Trains work less well on bare dirt.
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>Amtrak uses 25Hz 25kVAC power between DC and New York
>every other electrical system in North America, including Amtrak north of NYC, uses 60Hz
>rather than switching the southern portion of the NEC to 60Hz Amtrak spends millions on static frequency converters every time they upgrade some portion of the NEC south of New York
Why?
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>there will be no east-west service on weekdays anywhere south of Ohio and east of Louisiana through February due to track work by NS on this one line
Good job, Amtrak.
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>>1746386
Amtrak has dedicated 25Hz power stations for that section of track, so it would be a lot more expensive to replace it all than to buy frequency converters to supplement capacity

Also, modern trainsets can run on virtually any frequency anyways
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>>1746486
>modern trainsets can run on virtually any frequency anyways
lmao. no, they cannot. this is incorrect. you are mistaken.



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