Since this is the urban planning board right? but what would be a house without a road.lets have a Thread about nice blocks which are our only alternative to suburbs as far as you can see. But we do not want pods where you cant see the sunrise and only sleep there in the night.A example is Alterlaa in Viena not commie but great architecture. so ill post pictures.feel free to ad more and discuss.
>>1732736so mods don't delete me here is some transportation, suburbs are only possible with cars. here everyone has a short walking distance to the train, or if you want to visit friends on the other end of the blocks you use a bike.
>>1732738for shopping you do not need a car either.
>>1732736>which are our only alternative to suburbs as far as you can seethe fuck are you smoking, there's plenty types of density and housing inbetween burbs and blocks
>>1732736inside there are public rooms like 7 swimming pools, saunas, indoor playgrounds, gym, and 30 empty rooms that were given to clubs, looks like there is even one for you
>>1732741but at some point we get suburb sized agglomerations of medium density housing
>>1732746Well that's fine if they're zoned and regulated to remain walkable.
Tightly packed 2-5 story buildings and narrow streets seems far more pleasant and livable while being just as dense these monstrous towers with fields and giant roads in between them.
>>1732758This. Cities are much more livable if they grow outwards with 3-5 story multifamily homes vs single family homes with endless lawns and yards.
>>1732763Tokyo is dystopian though, far too much claustrophobic, chaotic buildup with far too little public space and greenery unless you go out of your way to visit one of the few parks or leave the city for the surrounding mountains. The average street looks depressing.
>>1732770You can be with in the mountains in less than a hour though.
>>1732770> amerifat's opiniondiscarded
I grew up in commiblocks in Eastern Europe. 'Luved em. Now I live in suburbs in Canada. 'Ate em.Life in the commieblocks was much more humane, strange as it may sound. Everything you could want and more was within walking distance (comparable to downtown living, but without actually living downtown). The things I miss the most are that the commieblocks were surrounded by vegetation and proper corner stores. Giant trees everywhere made it look like the commieblocks were growing out of the jungle, and going for walks was always very pleasant without even being in a park. One day I will go back. >>1732770>Tokyo>few parksNigga wut. The place is jam packed with parks. There's millions of hidden little parks to discover by side streets and back alleys. As opposed to North American suburban "parks" which are>bulldoze a giant field>plant grass on it>don't plant any trees>put exactly one bench on it >call it a park
>>1732796German. Simply appreciate me a tree lined street is all. Fuck them Tokyo alleys that are six feet wide with buildings up to the edge on either side.
>>1732758>these monstrous towers with fields and giant roads in between themContrary to intuition actual commieblock neighborhoods actually remain walkable, at least they did when they were still managed by the socialists, because stores, kindergartens, schools and doctors were put in strategic positions not too far from any single block. Of course you mustn't leave this to the free market to solve, it'll just make everyone drive everywhere.
>>1732802That would be so cool if it was houses instead of those skyscrapers
I really love commieblocks
I no nuthin bout dem commieblocks? Wha?
>>1732736If you are srs (which I know you are not) commieblocks are a terrible ideaCities should never and rarely do get to the point where high density residentials are needed. People are much more comfortable living in their own units side-by-side with good privacy that being surrounded by units. If you want density, build homes ready for extended families. Past a certain point in both density and population a city becomes a fucking demon. Cities are organic super-lifeforms, artificial growth is cancerous. Can't express how bad it is when a megacity is born in written form.>>1732763Tokyo is one such an example of a city really in dire need of high density, but that's because it never should've existed in the first place, demon. They swallowed up all their beautiful fertile alluvial and riparian habitats to create industrial hell. What a nation of retards. But you gotta seek dat profits yo, gotta modernize for the American occupiers so they can abuse your labour force instead of theirs, pesky labour laws. If they were cut off from imported goods about 3/4 of Japs would die from starvation since their remaining mountainous landmass is unproductive and under Tokyo is their historic breadbasket. Because their population is steadily shrinking, possibly because the Jap bugmen are so devoid of natural instinct because of their genetic selection over the decades favoring people who wouldn't die of revulsion from just being born in their abominations of cities, I expect the government to come slobbering back to the West for indoafromestizx immigrants to keep their houses from rotting and tax-profits from falling, say 2050? Keep those profits up Japan('s bureaucrats)!It is the same all over China, Korea, India, and Japan. They say it's the future of human habitation. I call it hell. Really it is a microcosm of the disregard for human life governments have.
>>1732880Japan's habital area is the size of Louisiana. 125 million people in 52k Square miles.
>>1732881I mourn for their soulsThe Japanese people deserve to know of other options of existence and how to achieve them. But until that happens, their situation will not improve. Habit is a vehicle for sin.Another question is, are they even willing to become human again?R.I.P Masanobu Fukuoka
Inside Nowa Huta in Poland. Place was ultra comfy.
>>1732741Cagetrolls just posting obvious bullshit once again.
>>1732880>>1732884>muh demons>muh souls>muh bugmen>muh suburban sprawlThe mind of a /pol/cel suburbanite LARPing as a homesteader never ceases to amaze.
>>1732736the thing has 2*6m big planters on the lower stories.
>>1732975>hey I heard the fags from ring 2 talk shit about our ring again
>>1732958You WILL live in the pod
>>1732996here's yours, have a nice cope
>>1733004>there is no alternative between bugman commieblocs and bugman suburbs
>>1732880>muh dying populationnot all races are nigger breeders, anon. it's okay for the world population to shrink anyway. and yes, that includes nigger coomers like you, less of that please
>>1732976there is a autobahn going through it.
>>1733017Okay but post with pictures, for the argument's sake.>>1733024LOL!Wonder how good their sound insulation is.
>>1733004That’s better than a tiny apartment lol
>>1733030>paying between half to one million dollars for an abortion of a cardboard prison with a 60 year lifespan that sways in the wind, burns down like a box of matches and gets annihilated by any natural disaster while also offering 0 sound insulation so everyone in the house hears you shitting while also leaving you segregated from everything besides your nearest strip mall is somehow betterlol, lol
>>1732958Yes I’ve always noticed suburbanites pretend they’re rural.
the virgin commieblock cattle vs the virgin cardboard burb cattle vs the chad townhouse enjoyer
>>1733035Yeah I’d still have a house with multiple bedrooms and a garage and 2 yards over a little apartment
>>1733038>multiple bedroomsall but one unused>garagecagies out>2 yards2 unused patches of soulless lawn
>>1732736>>1732738>>1732740>>1732799>>1732802>>1732896>>1732912>>1732965>>1732966>>1732971>>1732973>>1732975>>1732976>>1733024>>1733037Where do you keep your bikes if you live here? In the living room? How do you get them down stairs?
>>1733040Also where are you supposed to work on them
>>1733038>multiple bedroomsSame as apartments>garage>what is heated underground parking?>2yardsBarely bigger than a few meters square on most suburban lots. Usually not enough space to move in between houses. Balconies serve the same purpose. So you're still retarded, unfortunately. >>1733037Basado.
>>1733040Living room/entrance/balcony. Some have additional private storage underground. More modern buildings have dedicated underground bicycle parking.
>>1733040>what is a basement?
>>1733044Yeah I’ve lived in both and it’s nice having an attached garage with a workspace, storage for dirty stuff, parking for cars and bikes, etc. just like it’s nice having a backyard for barbecues, growing weed plants, letting the dogs out, stuff like that. I don’t really miss having a lot less space and sharing walls with people. Moving to a house from an apartment definitely felt like an upgrade and a big milestone in life.
>>1733048I've also lived in both, although my optics on the matter are reversed from yours. But you know, to each their own man, good for you. I see all the benefits of a house as well but to me that's something that should only exist in the countryside, with plenty of land and nature around. Suburban sprawl is like an uncanny twilight zone to me, that spits in the face of country living. But you gotta be close enough to get to work... so here we are. An ideal compromise, in my view, may be what a lot of people in Eastern Europe have: Apartment in the city for city living, house in the countryside for vacations/retirement.
>>1733091>Apartment in the city for city living, house in the countryside for vacations/retirement.This is fairly common in US cities too
>>1733091House, more like bungalow. Enough for a weekend or a week though.
>>1733091Suburbs were fine before the car became mainstream, actually.Dense and walkable, good mixture of duplexes, triplexes, and quads in with the single-family homes, and in America at least there was tram sevice into the urban cores.What fucked it all up is at some point urban planners got it into their heads that they had to "reward" the returning WWII veterans with packaged and pre-fabbed idyllic single-family homes in a pseudo-rural style.
>>1733172If it’s already a suburb why not make it so everyone can have their own house
>>1733177Making single-family homes at this kind of density sort of puts it out of "suburb" and more into "townhousing"
>>1733182But like why live in a suburb if you have to share a wall.
>>1733184You don't have to. There were single-family units sprinkled in.If you hate other people so much, go live in the country.
Obvious troll is obvious
>>1733172Agreed. I like real suburbs. The American phenomenon where developers copy paste some plywood designs over 15 acres looks like shit and isn’t very functional.
>>1733172AAA post.RIP suburbs along with the feeling of community and welcome brave new world nu-suburbia where everyone is locked in their cardboard pod surrounded by an ocean of window-twitchers. Fun fact: In nu-suburbs it's frowned upon to even be walking around by yourself at night. I've been stopped and questioned more than three times by cops for simply walking on the main boulevard at 10-11PM. t. normal white man in his 30s
>>1733192This post is racist.
>>1732802>because stores, kindergartens, schools and doctorsguess what i still go to the mall because fuck paying 40-50% more just to have "community feel"
>>1733215Where are you getting the idea that things are more expensive just because they're not bunched up in a mall? Also does your so-called cost calculation include having to own a car just so you can go to the mall in the first place?
>>1732736Where do you park your car? I don't see any parking lots nearby and street parking would get filled up quickly.
>>1733172>What fucked it all up is at some point urban planners got it into their heads that they had to "reward" the returning WWII veterans with packaged and pre-fabbed idyllic single-family homes in a pseudo-rural style.Wait....I thought the Jews created the modern suburbia to destroy Catholicism
>>1733172>suburbs were great when they weren't actually suburbs
>>1733284They walk to the street and take their pocket-car out of their pockets, silly
>>1732971Where is this? Looks dope
>>1733040>How do you get them down stairs?You can easily carry a modern bike up and down stairs, you just have to renounce the batavophile brain worms and accept the fact that heavy old dutch style shitbikes suck and belong in a landfill
>>1733215You have to be 18 to post in this website.
>>1733313Or you can just take them on the elevator?
>>17333121972 olympic village, Munich. Got converted into rental apartments and student housing after the games.
greenery/space in East Berlin.>red: commie blocks>blue: 4/5 storey multi-family housing built for workers during the late 1800simo the densely packed and older neighbourhoods are more beautiful and exciting, especially for immigrants and tourists. However, the lack of green space is very oppressive and you will hear residents complaining about it regularly.
>>1733284there is underground parking, regularly patrolled by security
>>1733028its supposed to be very good, the autobahn is completely decoupled
>>1732805>Man, if only I had a park and stores per 5 households instead of 500.
Older social housing in London has all the advantages of commie blocks without all the ugliness
>>1733293This would be nice where I lived. In my part of the city, they got rid of the sidewalks to expand the road to 6 lanes and allow cars to u-turn.
All of these places just look like college dorms and living in the dorms sucked
What does this have to do with transportation?
>>1733431urban planning and transportation are two sides of the same coin.
>>1733453This is a thread about housing, not urban planning
>>1733483Housing and where you put houses, how those houses are layed out, as well as how you transport the housed to and from their houses, are absolutely urban planning.
>>1733249>Where are you getting the idea that things are more expensive just because they're not bunched up in a mall?because i can literally walk 69 meters and see that i'm getting ripped off?
>>1732912>When Americans attempt affordable humane housingJust don't, your brains aren't wired that way. You don't understand compassion or society
>>1732982Unironically, that's how it works for children. There is a weird solidarity for people from the same block. It's really fun actually
>>1733322Commie comieblocks didn't had big cargo elevators. Only small ones where you can fit bicycle standing. Blocking ride for other passengers and smearlring walls with mud form front wheel. Everyone knows you are " that guy"
>>1732736elevator surfing is transportationhttps://youtu.be/MsvBx8PtXJk
>>1733037BasedBrooklyn brownstones are god tier
>>1733742this one has a swim hall on top and a gym
>>1733485Housing is not transportation
>>1733745Transportation is urban planning.Urban planning is transportation.
>>1733745Housing is part of urban planning.Urban planning is part of infrastructure.Infrastructure is part of transportation.It follows by the transitive property that housing is part of transportation.
>>1733611We did in the 60s and 70s. Then they became ghettos. As the concentration of poverty dragged the neighborhood down. Gangs formed and drugs spread.
>>1733747>Urban planning is part of infrastructure.NoUrban planning is an umbrella term that encompasses many different subjects and best fits in /pol/ but that's not an echo chamber so you won't post it there
>>1733765>/pol/ but that's not an echo chamberahahaha it's the worst kind of echo chamber
>>1733768>ahahaha it's the worst kind of echo chamberYeah the one you personally dislikeUrban planning is mostly public policy, and belongs on /pol/
>>1733769>personallyIt's common sense and human decency to hate /pol/, and not coincidentally at all /pol/tards are severely lacking in both these departments. Now go ahead and cry some more about how a topic that's been commonplace on /n/ for years is not /n/.
>>1733004If you're gonna post Toronto at least post some Toronto gommieblogs
>>1733769So you admit it's an echo chamber.Before you go on a sperg rant, I am specifically calling out your bullshit on the "/pol/ is not an echo chamber" statement, I couldn't care less about the rest of your post or where urban planning topics should be made.
>>1733801stop shitting the thread up sperglord. architecture has nothing to do with /pol/ if at all it would be over at /his/ but since this board is slow as fuck and urban planing is here anyway we might as well do the block thing here. now take your meds.
>>1732970>>1732973barbican is fucking sick>>1733184you do realise outside of north america sharing walls is normalmy current place is ~150 years old and i've never heard my neighbours despite their living room being next to my bedroom, its finethe last place i was in was painful however, if you had music up even a little bit the cunt next door would threaten to call the police even though i could hear him playing overwatch all day but that place was olderin conclusion anything built well is fine
That anon is cringe but I agree urban planning is a /pol/ subject not an /n/ subject which is why the urban planning threads on here only produce /pol/ tier dialogue
>>1733037Based Boston brownstone appreciator. These things are the optimal level of “density” for urban living.
>>1733839>which is why the urban planning threads on here only produce /pol/ tier dialogueThey do because /pol/tards always try to hijack them with their usual bullshit tirades about how things wouldn't work out thanks to niggers.
>>1734001There once was a plan for a metro tunnel under this monstrous construction but the whole underground line was dropped for financial reasons.
>>1734006This is a current map of the grounds.
>>1733980Not necessarily, just the incessant back in forth of >car bad>car good>train bad>train good It’s boring and repetitive like /pol/
>>1733297Prots, not jews.
>>1733784>>1733744>>1733741>>1732971Those buildings literally cry "my architects were autists with zero empathy".
>>1733805Learn to read you fucking retard, I literally said I do not care about that
>>1734046Where's the difference?
>>1733997>>1734000>>1734001Man, imagine this with green roofs and an interior park.
>>1734080Prots - masterminds.Jews - useful idiots and scapegoats.
>>1733172you realize many of those homes today, duplexes or what have you, back then in the 30s 40s 50s and even later were all tenements you rented the room, multiple people lived in one house. they were not suburbs the same way youre thinkin today with one family or a single person living in the house. it was all tenements.
>>1734083It was proposed but bad investors and no money from the city won't let it happen
>>1734104Really nice looking but architects need to start realising that no one's gonna walk that zig zag ass path.
>>1734104Maybe if they stuck with a more realistic concept it might've worked. This one is sacrificing a lot of usable space in that tower (whil incurring horrid cost for the modernization at the same time) and would induce high operational cost to keep those plants in respectable shape. I'm not sure how much that ledge can carry, but random trees growing on a roof sounds like a good way to cause damage, too, be it by roots or because of forces taken up during a storm.As for that interior park, it looks nice on first sight but there are also some issues with that. First of all, that path sucks and won't be used like that. Then they put up those wierd huts which don't seem to serve a real purpose. They could be someone's living room, but would feel like a dark hole inside. To make up for that, the whole block walks past the tenant's 2m high windows, so there's no privacy either. Again, very high cost for questionable use. The area seems to be used for something as is, too. Meaning that whatever that use is would need to be rendered obsolete.Keeping it simple with some grass, maybe flowers on the rooftops and maybe in the inner court could work. This concept not so much.Or just pave the roofs with solar panels and call it a deal, with electricity costing 30ct/kWh that could be attractive too.
>>1734418That inner space was designed as a retail space from the start. Those little huts are supposed to be shops. The whole first three floors of that 50.000m2 building were built as a mall in the 70s. The low-rise buildings facing the street are office space and those facing the river are apartments. The towers are mixed use.As for the structural stability, the thing was built to be tunneled under and to have a metro station in the northern half of the -2 level underground parking.Currently the retail portion of the building, a majority of the office space, and some apartment buildings are abandoned.I found this architectural sketch and annotated it in for more information. I coloured that green path green so you can see it.
>>1734453This is how the inner path looked like in the late 70s.
>>1734453Thanks, that clarifies a good deal of things.That sure is a fancy layout, and clearly has a good potential.I'd fancy that making the huts a bit more open towards the park and the parkways a bit straighter might make the thing more attractive still. One thing is certain, it has to stop looking so distressing for people to want to stay there.>As for the structural stability, the thing was built to be tunneled under and to have a metro station in the northern half of the -2 level underground parking.It's not the foundations that worry me, but rather the force being applied high up on the upper floors. There may or may not be sufficient buffer left in the strength of that last row of pillars.>Currently the retail portion of the building, a majority of the office space, and some apartment buildings are abandoned.That sucks. The concept with smaller shops is a move in the right direction, though I'm unsure if it'll fill that much area.Whether filling it up or not will work will likely depend heavily on getting people to live there who have some purchasing power and to add the appropriate shops. A few things I've observed going wrong in towns near me is that a totally forgettable pedestrian zone doesn't fly when you don't have enough money locally to keep it going. It either needs to have purchasing power nearby (convenience!) or draw it in from outside.
>>1733636In commie commieblocks here in the ex-ussr everybody kept their bikes in the basement at the bottom of each stair well. At least back when I was a kid and hung out with the proles who live in commieblocks, I come from the single family home area myself.
>>1733574If you can walk 69 meters to a mall clearly the system is working as intended.
>>1734500>It's not the foundations that worry me, but rather the force being applied high up on the upper floors.Thanks for the clarification, I agree with your concerns.Apparently the towers have a concrete core and a lighter concrete outer structure.Many more concepts were proposed, some of much more ambitious than that one (https://www.ihmezentrum.info/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/2018-Doku-Brutal-Sch%C3%B6n-21x21cm-komplett-Stand-03.08.18_Webversion.pdf), but the issue is financial in nature. The current owner of the structure has not found the right business model to make profit. The city is the biggest renter, renting the majority of the available office space. There is also the issue of the apartments that were sold to individuals throughout the years, those make any big reconstruction project a huge issue.>Whether filling it up or not will work will likely depend heavily on getting people to live there who have some purchasing power and to add the appropriate shops.What caused the project to fail is that it had to compete with retail in the city center (2km away). Other than that, corporate direction changes, mergers, bankruptcies... in the companies that used to rent retail space in there caused them to either shut their doors for ever or move to smaller spaces in the city center.This part of the city could really do with a big furniture store (one of the biggest stores in the building before it failed was a furniture store chain that later went bankrupt). IKEA is testing new store concepts inside cities instead of huge warehouses in industry zones but I do not think they would want their logo on a dilapidated structure.If I had absolute power and infinite funds I would repurpose the whole structure as a a university campus. The local university has 180 buildings scattered across the city and outside. With around 120.00m2 of floor space, this one building could accommodate a large majority of the university's activities.
>>1733038>tiny ass plot of land that you can't grow actually useful on because of the fumesnah thanks.
Everybody ITT post floorplan. Usable Space and proper room seperation is very important and makes or breaks an apartment.For me its pic related. Living in a big german City, with barely anything above five floor post ww2 mixed residential budings with businesses in ground floor. Very walkable neighbourhood. 2-person household and plenty of space. Only problem is no balcony and a fuckhuge useless hallway. Overall 8/10 though for affordability per sqm. 4th floor w/ elevator, but I would love to live on the 20th floor or something in a commiblock someday
>>1732758From Pennsylvania: the oldest continuously occupied street in America. There’s a nice little park that goes off in between houses just to get away from the street and sun here, too.Unfortunately, it’s uniqueness turned it into a tourist spot, making it nearly unlivable. But compared to most of Philly this is an idealic and wonderful bit of neighborhood. Walkable to the pier for further recreation as well. The narrowness of the road was designed so the houses could have backyards.
>>1734802I need to go check out Philly soon. My dad’s from Philly and I’ve never been.
Kabul Chad Commie blocks
Vs virgin 'modern' urban development
>>1734774>Kitchen separated by door ???
>>1735510so you don't flood your whole flat with cooking fumes.
>>1732982>ring 2 is jerks
>>1732799>a literal panopticon
>>1736023no anon a panopticon has a central tower and is designed for surveiling people. by your logic every donut shaped building can be one
>>1736434No need for it. Neighbor can see neighbor and surveil them to a great degree; they can then report information to their contacts.
>>1736463isnt this an inherently pessimistic and paranoid way to treat neighbors? I understand if you value your own privacy greatly but I feel like the people living in these buildings are close enough as a community to not care. besides, i personally think being more exposed makes us all a bit nicer.maybe im just wrong tho idk.
>>1733702Lovely troll pic. Now show me the units, interior halls and lobbies.
>>173374890% of that was from not spending anything on maintenance and management. You throw all your money up front, of course it's gonna be a shithole 10 years later.
As a young man, I lived in the DDR, and agree that they weren't entirely bad, but were very good in rare occasions. What they generally had in common was the absence of human scale. A rare exception was an early, pre-plattenbau development, the city of Eisenhuttenstadt.
>>1732770>with far too little public space and greenery unless you go out of your way to visit one of the few parks or leave the city for the surrounding mountains.That picture isn't exactly taken from low altitude. You can immediately see dozens of major parks in that picture, there are a lot of smaller parks that simply aren't visible due to altitude and distance.>>1733040There is usually bike storage on ground floor or basement of commieblocks. Depending on size of building, usually one per staircase or two.
>>1733172This is a distinction I've never seen made before. I grew up in a suburb built post ww2, all duplexes in thin lots, kitchen windows looking into your neighbors kitchen window, that sort of thing, but I never once saw it as "the suburbs" because my extended family lived out in the country in enormous suicide including sprawling cul de sacs. The older suburbs were just "the city"
>>1733390The downside is living in London
>on vacation in Arizona>stumble across random commieblock development Wtf? How did this even get here?
>>1740825Speaking of commieblocks and Arizona What do you guys think about Arcosanti? I think using above ground concrete is kind of retarded in the desert, even if it is supposedly designed to be cool. I haven't been though.
>>1740825looks like retirement condos