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>some texting soccer mom crashes into you
>you're automatically at fault because your bike has more than 250watts of power and/or hand throttle
>insurance won't pay because your bike was not road legal
>have to pay your own med bills and the $6000 paint damage on the soccer mom SUV bumper

How do they expect people to ever make the jump to eco mobility if the laws are absolutely pants on head retarded? You won't get anyone to stop using a car if you only allow 250w e-ASSIST bikes that are dangerously slow in traffic. You'd be even almost twice as fast if you were just pedaling. There's literally no reason to get an e bike with those laws. GG, ecofags.
>>
>>1728505
>ebikes
>eco
Pick one, fatass
>>
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>>1728507
Have you ever seen a fatass on an ebike like this? I don't.
>>
Cycling infrastucture is like feminism and car-centric society is the patriachy and you want to control both with your high speed motors, ruining everything for everyone, you're like a tranny.
>>
>>1728505
Beat succer mom, get money from purse and fuck off, polis wont find you. Are you /n/igger or wat?
>>
>>1728510
>imagine being neck deep into burger meme politics like this
Protip: Leave the internet for a day and get some fresh air
>>
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>>1728508
Pic related
>>1728510
You forgot to add "critical race theory", "the great reset", and a crude sexual phrase about either greta thunberg or AOC
>>
>>1728505
it's almost as if switching people from cars to "eco" transport was never about ecology but about restricting people's freedom of movement
>>
>>1728508
I, in fact, have seen a beer-bellied balding dad-looking guy riding something similar.
>>
>>1728516
Yeah, it is just getting more apparent now
>>
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You just want an electric motorbike. They're not illegal. You also want to not have to have to do safety checks on it, or be licensed to operate it safety, or insure it. And to have carte blanche to take it on pedestrian/cycling infra. Which is fucking bullshit.

The justification for e-bikes is to allow old or disabled people to cycle, or, allow low-speed commuting with very minimal effort in hilly areas.

Electric motorbikes, to safely co-habitate on busy roads with cars, exist. They're different.
>>
>>1728516
>people's freedom of movement
yeah because we're all so free when you NEED a car to even function in society.

this isn't an issue of 'freedom' you fucking retard. God freedom is such a dumb buzzword for brainlets.
>>
How about you ride a real bike or get a motorcycle you weak pussy
>>
>>1728508
The only people I see on that type of bike are fat boomers
>>
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>>1728532
>old or disabled
,,Nevadalaw,,,750w,,,unless offroad=unlimited.,
,,,,oread fineprints,,,,Mobilitydevice 2250w and 30MPH.,
,,,,,,,,or,,Toy.,seathight less then 14inchs.,
,hybrid ground,,rims,,electricrank,,,,
,,,my First post o/n/,20 yearsago.,
,"whatami?",
,,,,still confused.
>>
>>1728539
Where da fuck are u getting these images from?
Theyre great!
>>
>>1728508
back in august I sold one of these to a guy that was easily over 300lbs
>>
>>1728505
>soccer mom SUV
This trope was already stale 20 years ago
>>
>>1728532
>You just want an electric motorbike
Seethe harder.
Modern personal electric transport could fit both roles. Driving moderately slowly on a bike/ped paths while being small and maneuverable. Or blast through the city at 60+kph.
>>
>>1728507
Ebikes are extremely eco friendly. The battery only accounts for 15% of the total CO2 emissions.

https://youtu.be/krM3Z4obCpA?t=219
>>
>>1728505
You can limit the power to an ebike motor thru the speed controllers firmware. There is no legal limit to the actual size and power of an ebike motor. Having an off road mode that can be enabled with a switch that gives you all the watts your setup can handle is perfectly legal.
>>
"Men" who own e-bikes also sit down to pee
>>
>>1728590
Motorbikes have no issues using bike infrastructure, other than them gassing pedestrians that don't have the benefit of cars' air filters.
>>
>>1728591
>the only way to harm the biosphere is to emit co2
kys oxygen thief
>>
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>>1728573
>trope
>>
>>1728590
you already can do it you faggot
just be defensive and responsible for your own shit and stop crying, or pay the money and spend the time doing it legitimately.
>>
>>1728630
Thats a lovely strawman you have there.
>>
>>1728632
Nice shirt anon
>>
>>1728505
>have to pay your own med bills
Sometimes I love being nordic. Ohwait, I always love being nordic.
>>
>>1728508
I'm a fatass (168 cm 100 kg) and I ride a mountain-e-bike.
>>
>>1728508
Almost exclusively, yes.
>>
>>1728590
You are the poorfag seething.
If you can run anything able to go at speed fast enough to damage or kill someone you have to be liable through mandatory insurance at least.

You might say that normal bicicles can reach over 40 km/h, but again only trained riders can do that, the avare dumbfuck usually is not able to reach those speeds on flat.

Tl;DR get an electric moto/scooter and pay the taxes like everyone else you cheap fuck.
>>
>>1728729
at least you are not on one of those mobility scooters, but you are dangerously close something like that. Loose weight bud, its going to be good for you.
>>
>>1728569
That's fuckin crazy. My DIY electric bike only weighs 50 lbs, because the bike frame is super light. Battery weights 8lbs. The motor weighs 20lbs.
>>
>>1728505
Because they're meant to be used in bike lanes and on shared sidewalks by idiots with no prior training, therefore they're designed not to exceed the speed of a reasonably fit person on a regular bicycle. If you're so hell bent on riding in traffic, get a 45 kph model with moped plates and wear a motorcycle helmet, you fucking muppet.
>>
I really dislike the 250W hard limit in the EU because it seriously hinders cargo bikes. A loaded up cargo bike with a 250W motor basically goes back to feeling like a normal bike without a motor. Law should be saying something like 2W/kg permissible vehicle weight so that ebikes rated 150kg can have 300W and cargo bikes rated 250kg can have 500W.
>>
>>1728757
Fart
>>
>>1728757
or make a separate category for cargo bikes, you're allowed to have 500w but your speed limit is 20 so people aren't tempted to put racks front and back and claim that they are totally cargo bikes.
>>
>>1728573
it is more relevant than it ever was. get off your hrt
>>
>>1728592
>There is no legal limit to the actual size and power of an ebike motor.
There is in the EU.
>>
>>1728532
>he justification for e-bikes is to allow old or disabled people to cycle, or, allow low-speed commuting with very minimal effort in hilly areas.
>this is what boomers believe
>>
>>1728505
By riding a normal bike that isn't an e-meme. I'd get a dirt bike or some obnoxious thing if I didn't want to use my own power.
>>
>>1728757
The "250w limit" is nominal. Which means it can be a total lie. Most manufacturers that sell "250w" ebikes are really selling 500w ones that can peak at 750-800w. If you truly had an ebike that could only output 250w maximum you wouldn't be able to climb hills at all.
>>
>>1728812
>get off your hrt
Why does your type always project so hard
>>
>>1728886
Why do you feel addressed?
>>
>>1728625
>t. sits to pee
>>
>>1728754
this but eu should make 45kph to 60kph

45 is way to low when cars are allowed to drive 50kph inside most cities.
>>
>>1729218
Better: keep it 45kph and allow them on bike ways.
>>
>>1728510
God that is such a Trump thing to say and what I'm saying is a bernie crap. The fuck is wrong with you dude
>>
>>1729218
45 never felt too slow to me. Really there should just be a stricter enforcement of the speed limit in cities for cars.
>>
>>1729337
fuck no, there's grannies riding on the cyclelane at 20kmh, and you blow by at 45 that's twice the speed difference, that's the same as allowing cars to drive 100 through a school zone
>>
>>1728505
Nigger just buy a fucking motorcycle
>>
>>1728625
Real talk though why would you hate on peeing sitting down? You're a man. Nature gave you the ability to choose the best tool for the job. You'd be a fool to throw that away. It's like people choosing to be vegans. All you're doing is limiting yourself.
>>
>>1728508
I'm almost boomer almost fatass and am considering one after my workplace gets done moving closer to me.
>>
>>1729627
GRANNIES NEED TO WATCH THE FUCK OUT THEN.
>>
>>1728625
>>1729109
>>1729854
>he doesn't have a beautiful bathroom where he actually enjoys to sit down for a moment, chill and take in the tranquility at any chance he can get
>>
>>1728532
>You just want an electric motorbike. >You also want to not have to have to do safety checks on it, or be licensed to operate it safety, or insure it
Yes. What are you gonna do, catch me? Cops dont even see me as anything but a bicycle
>>
>>1730134
That's not the problem. The actual problem is that in case someone fucks YOU over you'll have to pay for their shit too because your bike was not legal.
>>
>>1728532
Damn right I do. I just wanna hit the throttle and fucking go for a rip.
>>
>>1728505
I suspect you're an eurofaggot.
If that's the case the eurocrates have already find the solution: high power, high speed e-bikes are classified as L1e-B motor vehicles, aka mopes. See the Stroomer for an example
You can ride them with an AM license and a helmet.
A special directive allow members state to allow for a special e-bike helmet instead of the standard motorcycle helmet, the only states where it is applied are the Netherlands and Belgium.
I think it is a really good solution as the moped (motor + pedals) is the vehicle class that was literally created to accommodate bicycles with an auxiliary motor attached. I'll go even further: eurocrates should BAN L1e-B scooters as they are an abomination and leave the L1e-B class only for e-bikes and real mopeds like the Piaggio Ciao.
It is ludicrous to have those 50cc scooters which are basically the same model as the 150cc version and the manufacturer expects you to remove the speed limiters...
>>1729337
>>1729218
I really like the dutch solution:
some paths are only for pedal cycles
some paths are for pedal cycles and L1e-B mopeds along fast roads and in the country side
I think it is a good compromise
>>
>>1728511
Always remember the 3 key things if police are about to be involved
>Do they know my real name?
>Do they know where I work?
>Do they know where I live?
If no to all of the above. Then dip the fuck out of that situation
>>
>>1731623
>is the vehicle class that was literally created to accommodate bicycles with an auxiliary motor attached
no, you are thinking of a "snorfiets" wich indeed by law was a motorcycle with pedals to get up to speed and when cruising let the engine do the work, a "bromfiets" has always been a motorcycle that could reach up to 45kmh independent of having pedals or not
>>
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>>1728505
Just buy a fucking motorcycle, its safer than some retarded bicycle with an electric engine, and if you have the money buy THEN AN ELECTRIC MOTORCYCLE
>>
>>1732080
snorfiets are L1e-A mopeds (max 25km/h)
bromfiets are L1e-B mopeds (max 45km/h)
Also the A and B subclasses are facultative. Many EU member state simply have L1e mopeds with a maximum speed of 45km/h.
>has always been a motorcycle that could reach up to 45kmh independent of having pedals or not
Nope. the pedal requirement was dropped many decades ago but it was there.
When eurocrates started tightening regulation around L1e mopeds with number plates, helmets, AM license and so on; many member states were not happy so the eurocrates allowed to facultatively split the class in L1e-A and L1e-B to allow less restriction on the A class if the member state wished.
Nowadays L1e-A mopeds are completely deprecated by standard electric bicycles and should be abolished as the majority of member states don't even recognize them.
>is the vehicle class that was literally created to accommodate bicycles with an auxiliary motor attached
That was after the split.
For example in Italy, where there's only L1e class without split, if you attach an auxiliary engine to a pedal cycle and you go to the Motorizzazione (department for motor vehicles) they will give you plates to install and register it as a L1e moped with a maximum speed of 45km/h
>>
>>1732100
>its safer
Why's it safer? Higher speeds -> more danger
>>
>>1728532
>costs 35k
>>
>>1728515
I WANNA FUCK GRETA UP THE ASS
>>
>>1730114
Nigga, stop wanking.
>>
>>1731623
>50cc scooters which are basically the same model as the 150cc version and the manufacturer expects you to remove the speed limiters...
You mean swapping the whole engine?
>>
>>1732196
prolly cos you haven't ghetto rigged the thing together with zip ties
>>
>>1732296
they use zip ties on spaceships
>>
>>1731623
ebikes/e-mopeds lose their appeal the moment you realize you're not allowed to ride them on bikeways.
the ones you can buy and are road legal are horribly underpowered and don't feel save if you're forced to stay between cars all the time. at that point, yeah, just get an actual motorcycle.
if you were allowed to ride 25kmh mopeds on bike lanes, they would be neat. but fuck no, I'm not STANDING on the fucking road with these shits. if your vehicle can't accelerate like a car or isn't stable at 80 it's shit for every day commuting between cars.
>>
>>1729627
>>1730113
more like grandpas that haven't rode bike for 40years blasting with 40kph at max assist.
>>
>>1729341
inner city 45 would be fine but here in south Germany we have many small dense towns with 1k-5k people that are 5-10km apart connected by country roads 100kph allowed and Farm/Bike lanes. Allowed for Tractors and Bicycles. so with a "Fast E-Bike" you have to go on the street where cars overtake you with 100kph. (although i doubt you ever get a fine for driving a S-Pedelec on a farm road, bot in case of a accident insurance could fuck you.)
>>
I have a 5 grand e-mountain bike full suspension. It has a spec that would probably tackle most DH courses with ease. It has full 2.6 inch off road tyres that hardly ever see dirt. I stuck a sidestand on it and just use it to cruise around the city at 17mph and pop wheelies. There isn't a hill for 20 miles :)
>>
>>1728505
>dangerously slow in traffic
>IN TRAFFIC
If you're mixing ebikes and car traffic you're doing it wrong. Either build proper cycling infra or get an electric moped.
>>
>>1732443
How would being able to go more similar to the speed of traffic be more dangerous? If you think about it it's insane how fucking retardedly slow bikes are in the grand scheme of things, you shouldn't even be allowed to ride analog bikes at this point.
>>
>>1732460
I'm sure someone has said this already in this dogshit thread, but electric bikes are not for "keeping up with traffic". Never have been. They're for hauling your lazy arse up hills if you're too old/fat to ride a normal bike. Get a motorbike if you want a vehicle that can keep up with traffic, they're cheaper anyway.
>>
>>1732466
But e bikes are sick. they combine the best part of bikes (unregulated, no safety restrictions, no training required, no accountability) and motorcycles (fast). They're superior to bikes in every single way with no downsides.
>>
Just rig it to be controlled with pressure from your knees. If you cant think of how to do this, you're too stupid to be breaking the law and you deserve to get fucked.
>>
>>1732469
light weight for low-speed maneuverability and being mechanically simple/ elegant are the best things about bicycles
they are a refined simple machine and all the workings of it are there to see.

An e-bike does still possess these advantages but less so, you probably can't even lift one above your head and it's not that simple or elegant
>>
>>1732469
Ebikes are no faster than a fit non-tired young adult, unless you're going up hills or hauling cargo or something.
>>
>>1732443
>If you're mixing ebikes and car traffic you're doing it wrong.
ebikes (those with hand throttle) are literally not legal on cycle ways.
>>
>>1732544
OH NOW I GET IT. You retard were talking about retarded pedelecs the whole time.
>>
>>1732344
>so with a "Fast E-Bike" you have to go on the street where cars overtake you with 100kph
This is the same with any L1e moped as they are limited to 45km/h
Along those roads all L1e mopeds should be allowed on the cycle path as they do in the Netherlands
>>
>>1728508
Literally 50% of the people are fat boomers or skinny fat dad bod faggots. Do you think anyone with an inkling of self respect rides these autism simulators?
>>
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>americans literally cannot have freedom compared to auschads
>>
>>1732559
Ebikes are pedelecs, period. If you have a bike with a throttle you have a shitty wannabe moped instead.
>>
>>1734661
>a shitty wannabe moped instead.
One you can ride on bike lanes legally while not getting sweaty to work.
t. skeleton who commutes in one and does not want to lose any more weight
>>
>>1734752
You should eat enough and become a good climber if you are a spooky scary skeleton
>>
>>1734661 So i'm not allowed to use hands to accelerate? Foot operated throttle it ok?
Or do you want something to spin? Like pedals with sensors and no chain?
Or maybe a giant dildo with optical sensors inside to measure how deep you are sitting on it?
>>
Imagine not chipping your ebike :)
Fuck the police
>>
>>1735295
>wink wink
>>
>>1735295
>>1735327
Have fun paying the 400k med bills for fake neck injury of the messaging faggot who ran into you but you'll have to pay because they find your shit wasn't roadlegal.
>>
>>1732196
And motion is relative. Keep pace with the cars, less likely to get hit by one.
>>
>>1728539
>10+ years of reading baconrider posts
>they're starting to make sense
>am I getting smarter or more retarded?
>>
>>1728757
With that much weight, there are serious considerations for breaking and handling.
>>
I'm still pretty tempted to get myself an e-bike

I don't have an excuse to do so (like commuting to a job for example) right now though
>>
>>1728533
This. Mutts can't determine freedom to vs freedom from.
Why can't I have freedom from the car?
>You WILL buy a $15k machine
>You WILL purchase insurance
>You WILL register the vehicle
>You WILL buy gasoline at $4/gallon
>You WILL maintain the lights
>You WILL PAY THE $9 + TIP to park anywhere decent
>You WILL be rear ended by an uninsured Mexican
>You WILL purchase the depreciating asset
>You WILL be dependent on big industry
>>
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>>1728505
>dangerously slow in traffic. You'd be even almost twice as fast if you were just pedaling.
Are you retarded? Have you even ridden one? You can easily cruise at 15mph. Are you telling me you can ride 30mph with the same effort on a normal bike? Fuck off.

Give it a throttle and let it go faster and you've just got an electric motorcycle. People don't want ANY e-bikes on MUPs and mtb trails because they think they're all dangerous or are going to tear up the trail. The industry is moving in a direction where we can categorize e-bikes into different classes and it's clear that they won't really go much faster than a normal bike, and are therefore safe to use in all places where normal bikes are used. But then retards keep buying hub motors on aliexpress and retrofitting them to their shitty bikes and basically give e-bikes a bad name while they zip around at 30mph+ and can barely stop because their $10 v-brake with bare pads can't fucking handle it. These shit heads think they're so smart because they made their bike go so fast, but every single home-done e-bike conversion I've ever seen is a fucking shit show. "Like hell I'm paying $3000 for a real e-bike. I'll just make one for $400." Wow, you did it, Cletus. You're so smart. You really subverted the paradigm.

>>1728539
GOD, JUST TYPE NORMALLY. WHY DO YOU DO THIS?
>>
>>1740473
Holy.shit I'm building a front hub eBike for $400 now thanks
>>
>>1740473
he has literal brain damage you dumb newfag
>>
>>1740473
we can ride anywhere (except provincial/national parks lol) with a throttle and we've had zero major reported incidents in leafland, why is the EU/US so strict, or is it really because our lawmakers are clueless and I should be grateful?
>>
>>1740702
>why is the EU/US so strict
because people don't want these janky electric motorcycles screaming past them on trails. Again, that's why things keep progressing to the point where we can regulate and categorize e-bikes based on their speed/function so that people can ride their REAL e-bikes on trails since they don't really go faster than a normal bike, but people on frankenstein e-bikes aren't allowed.
>>
>>1728508
>full sus e-bike
Wat
>>
>>1740833
They're pretty fun. I've never ridden one on technical trails, but they're smooth and are only pedal-assist of course, no throttle.
>>
>>1740833
Full amogus bike
>>
>>1740473
>that they won't really go much faster than a normal bike, a
this is dumb.
Idea of ebike go fast as motorcycle with no driving loicense, insurance, license plate etc.
Because moment you restrict shit, there is no reason to use ebike over motorcycle
>>
>>1740959
The point of an eBike is to make pedaling less taxing for the old and unfit so they can get out an enjoy riding bikes.

>>1740886
eMTBs are kind of scary on single track if you are running them in boost mode. It launches you into corners super fast and makes it way too easy to go faster than what the trail is designed for.

>>1735295
Have fun having to buy a new bike because your warranty wont cover when the battery/motor claps out now. All for going just as fast as you did before.
>>
>>1740396
people complain about the costs of cars all the time but this >>1728508 costs about 2 grand more than I paid for my car and no one ever seems to care

t. considering buying a freeride ebike for self shuttling as my n+1 but can't swing the cost
>>
>>1741095
It's a 2 year old bike and the motor is out of warranty anyway. These motors are designed for up to 45kph anyway. I only have mine set to 35kph. If the motor breaks I will simply install another, or maybe just upgrade to a brand new ebike for £5-6000 by then anyway. My battery use is only 15% more than running at 25kph
>>
>>1740473
>You can easily cruise at 15mph
Idiot.
It's not about the top speed in traffic, it's about keeping up with cars. If you can't accelerate as quickly as the cars around you to normal city speeds (which actual ebikes can and pedelec memes CAN'T) you WILL get constantly overtaken by them, cut off and other shit. Each time it's a huge risk for you.
It doesn't matter if your shitty meme can crawl up to 15mph in one minute.
>>
>>1742459
>(which actual ebikes can and pedelec memes CAN'T)
e-bikes can. You just need to tin the current measuring schunt and make sure fets wont explode. Or get a proper motor controller that can into programming.
Pedelecs, however, just like normal bicycles, don't belong to road at all.

Also braking. All bicycles have horrible brakes with insanely long brake distance.
>>
>>1741115
that's because the "cost of cars" also includes insurance, tolls, maintenance, license and registration, and all the other hidden costs that come with a car (which I'm sure you're aware of and just pretend not to know)
>>
i printed an ebike "kit" using an rc airplane motor, goes 50kmh. Dont tell the cops
>>
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spokes,,breaking,,wires fray,,button fail,,horn squeeks.,
,,expected.,10year old system abused.,neglected,,,,, GOODBOY!!
>>
>get a surron
>add pedal kit
>add 16s battery with 300A vesc controller
>limit it to 20mph pedal assist wink-wink
>put 250w stickers
>fuck da police
>>
>>1728508
Electric mountain bikes do make sense. If you're fishing out $2k on full suspension, why stop there, another 1k and you have basically a dirt bike legal to go wherever the fuck you want to go. And I mean absolutely everywhere, streets, little hills and trails, crazy technical trails, sand snow beach boardwalks, everywhere
>>
>>1742464
license and registration os done at purchase and is not very expensive

bikes also have maintenance and it can get hilariously expensive on performance bikes. (t. mtb is my hobby) I imagine adding a fancy motor and computer makes it worse

insurance sucks and is the biggest single reoccurring expense. but hey better than everyone being an uninsured mexican
>>
>>1745514
wat
>>
>>1745635
I'm not saying car related costs are unjust, I'm just saying that only comparing purchase costs between a nice bicycle and a beater car is naive and doesn't paint the full picture. I have a car and I could buy a new commuter bike every year for what it costs just to keep my car plated, inspected, insured and maintained. Might just sell the fucking thing, I put fewer miles on it than on my bikes nowadays.
>>
Try not living in the UK. I ride a 1200 watt ebike to work on main roads acting like a car and the cops do not care at all about 750w/20mph being the legal limit.
>>
I want a pedal assist, I want to pay for the insurance for it. I want to do that thing. Why is it always assumed cyclers wants to evade insurance fees? I have been trying to find insurance for my bicycle for a fucking decade.
Gas, maintenance, parking, all that horseshit is incidentally not necessary for cycling, but insurance? Take my goddamn money.

And another unpopular opinion:
People who ride throttle style e-bikes that haven't learned to pedal as fast and manage a bicycle with their own physique are a genuine danger to themselves and others. Stopping and agility are skills learned through your whole body's coordination. Stopping powered vehicles is about knowing the machine, and most of it is automated as in ABS. Stopping a bike is knowing both the machine and your body at the same time. I will never defend throttletwats like OP. Learn to brake, pay attention, and get some SRAM disk brakes.
>>
>>1746395
>And another unpopular opinion
Its called jealousy, pedalfag.
>>
>>1746363
Your insurance will care though when someone else flattens you and you get to pay all the shit since your bike isn't legal
>>
>>1746363
It’s 14.5mph
>>
>>1742459
Fool. If you're being forced to cycle in among car traffic in >30km/h zones then you have already lost.
>>
>>1746979
>>30km/h zones
Lolwhat? 60(80)kph is a bare minimum speed for the city.
>>
>>1728533
I got my freedoms
>>
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>>1745843
14yearsamechanics.
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>>1740396
>You WILL let them dictate your physical and psychic landscape
>You WILL sacrifice your children to some flip driving a Tesla 30 over down your residential street
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>>1728516
Cars are really only based for rural or long distance intercity travel. They are cancerous in dense metros. Also the "freedom" of government roads could be shut down immediately in a crisis situation. You could probably strategically cripple most car based cities with a couple road blocks and a few destroyed bridges. Just look at that "blizzard" shit show in DC
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>>1728812
They call them "Karen crossovers" now
>>
Stay the fuck off the bike path.
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>>1728505
'E-bikes' are cancer, they shouldn't exist at all, either ride a real bike or get a motorcycle.





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