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>Elon Musk is the only one that realises our cities need to be 3 dimensional and make use of underground space for transport via tunnels
>Elon Musk is also the only one that wants to use said tunnels for an absolutely fucking retarded quasi taxi pool with all of the disadvantages of cars and none of the advantages
Why does it have to be this way
>>
>>1719420
Because enough politicians are foolish enough to dump millions into these obvious cash grab schemes.

Underground traffic tunnels in Florida. FFS. Bring scuba gear.
>>
>>1719420
I don’t think he’s the only one
>>
ty elon for inventing metropolitans
>>
>>1719420
Quasi taxi pool is just sidekick trying to sell main idea.
Tunnels for personal cars (ofc brand locked into Tesla hehehe).
Why such tunnels? Because this demographic (car users) have money to spend and are ready to spend to go around traffic jams. Hobos riding public transit are not good customers, bad target market.
>>
>Elon Musk is the only one that realises our cities need to be 3 dimensional and make use of underground space for transport via tunnels
>>
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Reminiscent of the Autojet cars from the dystopian film THX-1138. But it's Elon Musk, so let's all willingly be spied on and pay for it!
>>
>>1719420
>Deliberately make tunnels too small to convert to rail transit.
>>
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>>1719420
>our cities need to be 3 dimensional
im interested to hear melon rusk's thoughts on this new """third dimension""" invention of his
>>
>>1719420
wait til one of those teslas sparks into hellfire mid tunnel and there are no spinklers or even escape walkways, barely enough room to sqeeze past the line of cars behind it while suffocating on toxic flouride gas.
the taxis come with dashcams right?
it's gonna be kino for the ages.
>>
>>1719420
elon musk didnt invent a 3rd dimension retard
the loop thing is literally just subways but not mass transit and worse
and also impossible to build because it ignores all of the fundamental realities of how tunnels are dug
>>
>>1719420
there wilk be a few kf these bad boys up for grabs when the new tube for london comes in
>>
File: leighvisionarycity.jpg (66 KB, 640x1032)
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we need to go taller / deeper
>>
>>1719763
Damn this looks sick in colour. I need a bigger resolution though.
>>
>>1719420
I always wondered why these tunnels got so much hate.
>cheaper to build
>smaller more frequent stations since the vehicles can move off to the side
>can operate above and below ground so if there is a section which is impossible to tunnel they can use a surface route
>vehicles can pull over at station so that the system can always remain in motion and assets can relocate to areas with demand
>automated and on a closed circuit so less human error and 3rd parties causing delays and accidents
>instead of larger vehicles with less frequency you get smaller vehicles with more frequency and the system can adapt to changes in demand and passenger flow
>company is developing vehicle that can transport 12 passengers like a Marshrutka
>jet fans and fire suppression can easily be added to the system and the vehicles
problem with existing transit is that its not appealing to the average car driver because even if you improve the speed and frequency, it still lacks the comfort, privacy, and frequent departure times that a cluster of smaller vehicles can provide. if they price this right it could win over a lot of drivers.
>>
>>1719725
>there are no spinklers or even escape walkways
in Elons concept there isnt, obviously hes going to have to cater to the demands of other municipalities that will demand this stuff. can easily make exits that escape into the adjacent tunnel.
>barely enough room to sqeeze past the line of cars behind it
if its an automated system then all the cars would be able to reverse out of the tunnel in unison if an emergency is signaled and all the cars ahead would continue onwards freeing up the tunnel for emergency responders.
>>
>>1720140
>if its an automated system
Stop. It’s not.

Self-driving has never been demonstrated in the tunnels and was specifically banned by the client. The vehicles are also not a linked system so “reversing in unison” is actually a complete fucking lie. These boring revolution talking points are dumb as fuck.
>>
>>1720247
you sound dumb as fuck, they arent going to test the automation out with random people. the automation is still going to roll out once they get enough test data. they use real drivers first so they can change up their strategies for parking at stations.
>>
>>1720136
>>cheaper to build
show numbers
>>smaller more frequent stations since the vehicles can move off to the side
How do you manage it if those smaller stations get crowded?
>>can operate above and below ground so if there is a section which is impossible to tunnel they can use a surface route
You can't build a new route on the surface in a big city, that's the point of the whole underground thing
>>vehicles can pull over at station so that the system can always remain in motion and assets can relocate to areas with demand
If you move assets to an area in demand that area gets clogged by traffic and cars slowing down because the one forward is pulling over at a crowded station
>>automated and on a closed circuit so less human error and 3rd parties causing delays and accidents
Just like some automated metro lines, nothing new
>>instead of larger vehicles with less frequency you get smaller vehicles with more frequency and the system can adapt to changes in demand and passenger flow
Bullshit, metro trains arrive every 2-3 mins on peak hours
>>company is developing vehicle that can transport 12 passengers like a Marshrutka
How do you fit a bigger vehicle in those small ass tunnels?
>>jet fans and fire suppression can easily be added to the system and the vehicles
They can all fail and there are still no escape route, a normal metro system is safer than those fucking cages.
>if they price this right it could win over a lot of drivers.
Or you could build a metro system like all normal countries and stop whining about muh comfort like a pussy.
>>
>>1720136
>cheaper to build
The average cheapest to build by conventional wisdom is pipes or larger-diameter tunnels.
>can operate above and below ground so if there is a section which is impossible to tunnel they can use a surface route
>smaller more frequent stations since the vehicles can move off to the side
Teach us how the station spacing works with station length, acceleration & deceleration, headway, line speed, and frequency.
You will need acceleration and deceleration lanes if you want to do that. Not "smaller" anymore.
>can operate above and below ground so if there is a section which is impossible to tunnel they can use a surface route
Is this supposed to be selling or unique? How do you overcome the gradient and intricate web of tunnels with the proclaimed depth?
>automated and on a closed circuit so less human error and 3rd parties causing delays and accidents
Again not unique or selling.
>instead of larger vehicles with less frequency you get smaller vehicles with more frequency and the system can adapt to changes in demand and passenger flow
Again, this seems contradictory and conflicting on passenger capacity, headway, line speed, and frequency. Demand-responsive systems haven't been proven to work at scale.
>company is developing vehicle that can transport 12 passengers like a Marshrutka
You add capacity by being big and long, not small and short.
>jet fans and fire suppression can easily be added to the system and the vehicles
This is mandatory, not "easily be added". Vehicles don't have automatic sprinklers.
Before asking whether longitudinal or transverse ventilation is more appropriate, where do you place the ventilation shafts; and at what cost or quality/reliability is the extensive active fire protection, together with fire safety.
Deep tunnels don't go well with ease and time of evacuation and emergency services access. What fire resistance rating does this have to be then.
>>
>>1720785
+
>>1720136
>jet fans
This makes the tunnel larger. If you put it at sides, it will block the walkway for emergency and maintenance.
>>
>>1719420
>self driving cars
kind of like an existing vehicle you can just hop on to and it'll go places
>tunnels instead of roads
kind of like the tunnels we have instead of carrying hundreds of people like trains it only carries a dozen or two

What is he gonna invent next? Electricity that comes out of walls? Like idk, a fucking wall outlet lmao

eelon musk tru ginius
>>
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>>1719420
>Elon Musk is the only one that realises our cities need to be free of niggers and hewisj influence
What did he mean by this?
>>
>>1720140
>can easily make exits that escape into the adjacent tunnel.
If you mean the adjacent bore, you are costing for almost 2 tunnels essentially, plus the cross-passageways. If you mean the adjacent cells separated by a partition wall or tunnel structure, this is now a larger tunnel.
Anyway, then you need walkways and fences, on top of the cross-passageways. If the other side doesn't even stop for safety.
Fyi, you still ventilation for smoke in case of fire. Considering all other necessities and requirements, a large diameter tunnel will accommodate everything needed in different cells in a single bore/tube.
>freeing up the tunnel for emergency responders
That's not how it works. You don't rely on, or wait for this. There will be congestion upstream. No one is risking a head-on collision when going up in reverse from downstream.
A derailed vehicle, spilled cargo, or any obstacles will obstruct the already small working space of a single-lane/track without hard shoulder.
>>
>>1720136
>comfort, privacy, and frequent departure times that a cluster of smaller vehicles can provide
You can work around in a train. If expectations change, trains can always provide all-seats, all-reservations, lounge, bar, dining-car, and whatever amenities needed. It's simply too inefficient for the masses of commuting.
The automation and other equipment on a larger vehicle fleet adds up, both in fixed capital invest cost, and in inspection and maintenance.
Building stations is a significant source of cost underground; not to mention labor cost to operate, if not merely monitoring and responding. This doesn't favor provision of the advertised convenience.
>>
Imagine getting stuck in traffic underground and a hurricane or earthquake hits
>>
>>1720878
There aren't earthquakes in Florida, and hurricanes move slowly and predictably enough that they can close (or even seal) the tunnels before it hits.
>>
>>1719420
Because he makes a shitload of money if and only if the retarded """"solution"""" he's pushing gets put in place, he doesn't give a shit about you or me, and he's just smart enough to be dangerous
>>
>>1720880
But tornadoes and flash flooding does happen in Florida. Ok so tornadoes arent a significant threat if you're in an underground tunnel made of concrete. But they will need pumping systems and power backups in case of flooding.
>>
>>1719420
>Why does it have to be this way
Public transportation confuses and scares most of Americans. It's easier to sell a car tunnels. If Elon makes tunnel digging significantly cheaper, this technology will be mostly used for train and metro tunnels anyway.
>>
>>1720946
City public transportation has no profit in it, poorfags and often outright toxic criminal clientele.
Cars are rich law abiding citizens.
Say whatever you want but Elon always had excellent marketing sense.
>>
>>1721022
>City public transportation has no profit in it
Dumb faggot
>>
>>1719420
>You will live in the subterranean coding mines and you will be happy
>>
>>1721156
But that's correct? Even New York's subways lose like $6 billion a year.
>>
>>1721022
>City public transportation has no profit in it, poorfags and often outright toxic criminal clientele.
Amerifags never leave dysfunctional shithole of a country and think everywhere is a dysfunctional shithole.

>City public transportation has no profit in it
>Implying endless freeways and roads are profitable
>>
>>1721275
>American PT
Dumb faggot
>>
>>1721275
Before the US highway program, the railways were actually profitable. However, with the government covering the cost of the car infrastructure, and the retarded tax system on rails, railways stopped being profitable. However, transportation doesn’t need to be profitable. The government certainly is not making a profit on the roads, no matter how many new suburban developments get built to tax and how much gas tax the collect from driving.
>but added economic activity
Railways did the same thing, which is why most historic towns got built next to the rails. Instantly shot up the land value. But modern rail would also free up the roads of most cars so delivery vehicles could make their trips faster, easier, and safer (less traffic accidents).
>>
>>1721345
Yeah but roads carry goods and services
>>
>>1721346
What is freight rail? The only rail really used in the us at mass scale anymore. Why do you think towns wanted to be on railings? Faster, cheaper, and easier shipment of goods and services, along with the easy opportunity to travel to other towns.
>>
>>1721347
Yeah run a freight rail line to the back of every grocery store lol. And have plumber cars and Amazon delivery cars that stop at everyone’s house. Retard
>>
>>1721345
>the railways were actually profitable.
And railways (freight) are still very profitable and competitive in US, despite highways. Unlike in EU.
>>
Highways and roads don’t need to be profitable because they facilitate all commerce, it’s really that simple.

The Chinese have a saying: 要想富先修路, or, “If you want to get rich, build a road”
>>
>>1721358
I said relight would free up the roads for delivery vehicles, illiterate faggot. This means that with better rails, the roads would still be there (though smaller and better, since less cars on them).
Old style is oxen, donkeys, and horses to transport to the stores, but now would be trucks and vans.
>>
>>1721368
Freight rail already freed up the roads as much as it is possible. In US.
EU uses lorries, they don't like rail.
>>
>>1721388
Passenger rail. Most cars on the road are single passenger. If you had good passenger rail (NYC isn’t good), then you’d free up a lot of traffic. And passenger rail used to be profitable.
>>
>>1721394
>If you had good passenger rail (NYC isn’t good), then you’d free up a lot of traffic.
EU has good passenger rail. But thier
share of passenger car is 85-90%. of passenger*kms in land transportation, rail barely put a dent. You can ban overnight passenger rail in EU, and barely anyone will notice. Ban passenger car then EU collapses.
>>
>>1721402
Overnight gets into plane territory. I’m thinking within urban areas (remember, even in the US, 20% of people live in census designated rural areas, so significantly less than that actually live rurally).
Replace work commutes with passenger rail, since almost all of the cars are one person going to/from work. In Berlin, for example, 51% of the population commutes by bus/train to work. In the US, that was as high as 12.1%, but fell to 5%. In Europe in general about 1/3 of the populace used public transport, and a lot are from 3rd world countries which don’t have infrastructure to support anything other than shitty roads. Still better than the US. If the US had Europe level transit, there would be at least 95 million less cars in your way on the roads (using Europe general levels). Wouldn’t that make being outside better? And, for those still driving, wouldn’t that make driving better?
These numbers aren’t even considering bike use. In the Netherlands, that’s 55% of the population, who otherwise would be traffic on the highways!
>>
>>1721333
The only ones that turn a profit are Asian and Indian ones because they're packed to the gills. You could make an argument that public transport is necessary but not on profit.

>>1721345
You do know that the government did subsidize construction of railroads early on and gave them a fuckton of freebies like giant land tracts that well exceeded the right of way, right? There were only a few railroads that made a consistent profit and even then ridership on rails peaked in 1920 (with a brief but huge spike in WWII to transport draftees).
>>
>>1720136
Cars are just less energy efficient than rail, and these ones have to have batteries too, which are made from non renewable Lithium. You end up with all the expense of a subway with fewer benefits all so Elon can advertize the Tesla brand.
>>
>>1721402
>You can ban overnight passenger rail in EU, and barely anyone will notice
You clearly have never been bottled up on Milan's highways or London highway ring on peak hours. Banning passenger rail would worsen an already tragic situation. And stop telling other people about their country.
>>
It's all a trick to make sure funds that could be used for rail transit are instead used to fund his meme, that way people keep buying cars.
>>
>>1721402
>passenger*kms
There's the statistic problem. Need to find metropolitan regions or commuter belt, daily and work (better if commute is separate from business), and trip/journey in the modal split data. Travel distance needs to be adjusted. The objective for efficiency is to minimize VKT and each km-traveled in PKT, not maximize car use, travel time and distance.
>in land transportation, rail barely put a dent
You forgot walking and biking.
https://www.emta.com/spip.php?article267 Most are equally important.
>You can ban overnight passenger rail in EU, and barely anyone will notice. Ban passenger car then EU collapses.
Yes because all the passengers disappeared without ever existing?
Road traffic worsens far quicker to a halt with more vehicles.
>>
>>1719474
a good analogy, since those were just old lola race cars with fake jet shit glued on the back, rather like elons shittily cobbled together cars that keep catching fire or losing their front wheels.
>>
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Boring Company just got approved by Las Vegas.

>29 miles of tunnel
>51 stations
>tunnel costs are all paid by Boring Company
>stations are paid by station owners
>57000 passengers per hour

To put that in perspective, NY's light rail has 9000 passengers per hour capacity. NY's subways have <50,000 passengers per hour capacity. Thats the busiest mass transport system in the US. Those cant compete with Boring Tunnel mass transport system. NY's subway system costs ~$2 billion per mile to build shouldered entirely by tax payers. Plus another $2 billion per year to maintain the system.

If you want to go from point A to F in a train, you need to go from A->B->C->D->E->F with stops along the way. If you want to go in a boring tunnel, you go from A->F directly without stop.

More passenger capacity
Faster transit time
Less costly in development and maintenance
Cost $0 to tax payers
Can be build within a year
>>
>>1722642
In the interview the number thrown on how much cars will be in those 29 mile tunnel is ~700. They have so much flexibility to how many they want or how many they want to operate at any given time based on demand too.
>>
>>1722642
>57000 passengers per hour
>To put that in perspective, NY's light rail has 9000 passengers per hour capacity. NY's subways have <50,000 passengers per hour capacity. Thats the busiest mass transport system in the US. Those cant compete with Boring Tunnel mass transport system.
Per direction? Tr getting your numbers correct first.
Claiming a theoretical system capacity is worthless if it can't be achieved in actual operation, due to station and tunnel constraint, as well as starting and stopping.
>NY's subway system costs ~$2 billion per mile to build shouldered entirely by tax payers.
Try building one in NYC, not Vegas.
>>1722649
>In the interview the number thrown on
Yes please tell us your capacity calculation methodology, dear free PR volunteers.
>>
>>1722684
+ Holy shit I imagine you can even inflat your numbers by counting the capacity of the entire network, not individual lines and stations. Not to mention the quadruple track, and how obsolete MTA Subway signalling and train capacity is.
>>
>>1722684
>Per direction? Tr getting your numbers correct first.
Entire system. For NY subways and these tunnels.

>Claiming a theoretical system capacity
Theoretical system is necessary to understand the limits of real world capacity limits. The real world capacity depends on lot of external influences which cannot be subject to analysis. Covids, lay offs, nuclear war, mass extinctions, preference, habits, time, etc cannot be calculated properly in a valid metric because the variance these additional uncontrolled scenarios will make any calculations unreliable. In which you could say anything is anything, and nihilism is the only remaining constant.
>Try building one in NYC, not Vegas.
The $2 billion per mile is a NYC's cost estimate and its a very conservative estimate. The actual cost of tunnels in NYC are ~2.7 billion per mile - $3.8 billion per mile. Its absolutely bonkers. All paid by tax payer dollars.
>https://nypost.com/2019/09/16/mta-official-defends-2nd-avenue-subways-6b-price-tag/
>>
>>1722690
>Covids, lay offs, nuclear war, mass extinctions,
>force majeure
Nigger, are you serious?
>>
>>1722700
Yes because your argument is presented under false pretense.

Ofcourse a fucking brand new tunnel system that has only been in service for few months wont have the real world capacity of an established 100 year old system. These things take time to establish and for people to get used to, to understand, to know about it, and become normalized within the city in which these systems become active.
>>
>>1722690
Alright I'll give you a serious answer.
>Entire system. For NY subways and these tunnels.
This is bs, or I don't know what you are comparing. The per line capacity is at least 50000pphppd. Multiply this by the number of lines.
The new heavy metro systems around the world can be built for 60~80k pphpd on the high end. A light metro can easily achieve 20~30kpphpd.
>>
>>1722702
>These things take time to establish and for people to get used to
No, the physics doesn't. The spatial geometry and kinematics are always there. Either you can explain your simulation and modeling, or you don't.build something unproven with low readiness. .
>>
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>>1722703
https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2020

MTA reports 640 million for the year. Thats 73K passengers per hour across their entire subway network. That includes 6400 subway trains, 472 subway stations, and 665 miles of subway.

Its not per line, its per entire system.
>>
>>1722642
No, the capacity is in fact vastly lower than a metro.
>>
>>1722773
Because "my gut feelings"
>>
>>1719420
>lets go for a drive in Mr Musk's Murder caverns!

Musk is what would happen if H. H. Holmes was alive today and was a billionaire.
>>
>>1722780
No, because it's a basic mathematical fact you fucking cunt. They are literally planning to drive cars that can only hold a maximum of 4-6 paying passengers single file through tunnels. A metro with a modern control system can run trains every 2-4 minutes, each cable of carrying hundreds of passengers, and there are numerous fully automated lines globally. They are already admitting the Tesla's in the tunnels will have human drivers and that they no longer have plans for larger vehicles. The throughput on the convention center loop is far, far, far below what they promised it would be.

Sorry you're to much of an inbred retard to understand any of these facts.
>>
>>1722780
Let make some extremely unrealistic generous assumptions:
- 10 vehicles per minute departing a station
- every vehicle is filled to 100% capacity with 6 passengers each
- that's 10 cars and 60 per minute, or 40 cars and 240 people per 4 minutes

A single metro train running every 4 minutes already has far more capacity than that. And that, as noted, ignores the fact that there's no realistic way to run the Tesla vehicles through the tunnels at that sort of frequency. So even the highly unrealistic theoretical maximum for the cars is far less than the proven real world performance of trains.
>>
>>1722815
10 vehicles x 51 stations x 60 minutes = 30600 cars per hour x 6 passengers = 183,600 passengers per hour.

You don't need to be generous. We can go half that.

6 vehicles (3 coming/3 going with dual tunnels) per minute x 51 stations x 3 passengers x 60 minutes = 55080 per hour.

NYC's entire subway metro runs 73K per hour as per >>1722709 MTA's report
>>
>>1722709
>>1722642
Really its a pretty decent system for which tax payers aren't paying a single dime to develop.

>fast
>cheap
>clean
>efficient
>long

Whats the fucking problem? I don't see a single issue other than "NOOO ITS NOT TRAIN" retards crying about nonsense. An equivalent train or subway system would cost >$100 billion dollar for the same amount of distance, deliver a quarter of passengers, take 10+ years to build.
>>
>>1719420
Hold up it’s a taxi service? You can’t drive your own car?

Jesus Christ it’s even more retarded than I thought.
>>
>>1721275
How much does road infrastructure cost?
>>
>>1719420
Ever heard of the New York City MTA or the Communist Party of China? Elon Musk is just an autistic kid who made his goal being cool. His admirers are almost all men of the “actually” persuasion and his money is just advanced money laundering for the South African White Right.
>>
>>1722836
How is having a 4-10 car train a third rail powering it with an engineer and conductor gonna have higher costs than hundreds of luxury cars each with drivers
>>
>>1722836
Bitch, you already got proven wrong on capacity. Shut the fuck up.
>>
>>1722817
You stupid fucking nigger. You literally just claimed that all of the Loop stations operate simultaneously but that only 1 metro station operates at a time.

Shoot yourself in the head you insufferable fucking troglodyte.
>>
>>1722867
Show your work. Dumb retard. Being emotional and lacking coherent numbers doesn't convince anyone.

>>1722817
>>1722709
>>1722690
>>
>>1722869
The work was shown and you straight up fucking lied about the calculation by completely eliminating all but 1 station from your retarded mental model of metro.

The convention center loop has already proven that your entire claim of capacity is false. Boring admitted it!
>>
>>1722868
Retard. 73k for NY is for the entire metro system's 472 stations. Read the MTAs official source. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall.

>>1722709
>>
>>1722870
>>1722872
>>
>>1722869
Completing making things up about The Boring Company Loop doesn't convince anyone. That's precisely what you've done. The company's own data doesn't come anywhere close to supporting your outlandish and embarrassing assertions.
>>
>A single lane highway is going to have higher capacity then a light rail or subway
How do idiots keep falling for this? The only way that'll be capacity and cost competitive with a metro would be for it to use exclusively trams, which would just make it a low budget metro.
>>
>>1722872
Still waiting on you to show us the measured throughput of the Loop system. Oh wait, you can't.
>>
Even is the Boring Company gives a capacity estimate, remember that the Vegas Convention Centre was supposed to have a throughput of 4,400 people per hour but only managed 580.
>>
>>1722874
Boring Company quotes 53k pph. My estimate has 55k. If you think 3 cars per minute per lane is impossible you're a fucking retard
>>
>>1722878
https://news3lv.com/news/local/lvcva-results-of-las-vegas-convention-center-loop-tests?&ampcf=1

Fake shit doesn't help your argument.
>>
>>1722880
A subway capable of carrying 1000 people leaving each station every 2 minutes, would give this system a theoretical capacity of 1.5 million people per hour if it was a fucking subway
>>
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>>1722882
>>
>>1722883
We have a real world data from MTA themselves. You don't need to delude yourself.

https://new.mta.info/agency/new-york-city-transit/subway-bus-ridership-2020
>>
>>1722885
That's usership retard, not theoretical maximum ridership.
>>
>>1722886
It's an established system that's been operating for 100 years.
>>
>>1722642
So if this whole thing is so bad and inefficient, why did LV give them a green light for expansion?
>>
>>1722887
Again, that's how many people use it not how many people can theoretically go through at peak operation. Just look at the Montreal Metro system, that has trains that have a capacity of 1000 people, and is capable of 2 minutes between trains, with 68 stations, giving that system a theoretical capacity of 2,040,000 people per hour during peak operation. That system has 1.4 million daily ridership.

You are a fucking retard.
>>
>>1722888
The answer is its the best system we have. Retards gets filtered by "its not a train" "I hate Elon Musk" or "it's a car"

Rather than looking at cost per mile, passenger capacity, build time, etc. Aka the hard specs.

Retard feels are the problem
>>
>>1722891
If Vegas was going for the cheapest cost per mile/cost per rider, you dumbasses would be using a BRT system instead, Even cheaper then this, with an order of magnitude higher capacity.
>>
>>1722889
Trains don't load and unload 100% at each station. They are fundamentally limited by design of the system. Each train is slowed by the fact that they need to stop at every station. These limiting factors are non issue for Vegas tunnels
>>
>>1722880
It's 1 lane in the tunnels and their own data from the convention center loop proves this estimate is wrong.
>>
>>1722882
You mean like your fake link that goes nowhere? Or do you mean like your fake data that you made up? Or both?
>>
>>1722888
There's a real answer for this (not one made up by this fucking retard in the thread). And the answer is because the city doesn't have to pay for it.
>>
>>1722895
A system that can move 2 million people at peak operating hours doesn't need a high level of point to point efficiency to outperform a system with literally 2% its maximum capacity
>>
>>1722891
Every single thing you said is wrong. You deserve to be held down and have your skull caved in with a claw hammer while you scream for your less than worthless fucking life.
>>
>>1722898
Which makes no sense given as we can see with the Brightline in Florida, the REM in Montreal, and over a dozen systems in Orlando, a private transit system that actually works is viable, so in a tourist city like Vegas you'd think someone would be jumping at the prospect of a private transit system that actually works in the city.
>>
>>1722895
The tunnels would still single lane with hundreds of separate cars competing for that space regardless of destination. Dumbass.
>>
>>1722894
No, BRT costs $80 million per mile. Boring tunnels are ~$10 million per mile. 10 million / 80 million = 1/8 the cost.
>>
>>1722904
Why are you still lying about everything? What's your goal here?
>>
>>1722904
>BRT costs $80 million
* $50 million in 2011 money
>>
>>1722904
>Adding an additional lane to an existing road costs more then burying that road under ground
Even if that was true, which it's not, the capacity would still be well over 8 times
>>
>>1722908
You have no evidence to support this.
>>
The balding britbong from Boring Revolution’s posts are very obvious in this thread. Get a job loser
>>
>>1722909
The network is literally a single lane highway under ground, the evidence is literally the claims by Boring about what it is
>>
>>1722908
Busses would still need to stop at every single stop passengers need to get off to. Tunnel cars is point to point.

Point A to Point Z.
vs
Point A -> Point B -> Point C -> Point ... -> Point Z

Not gonna happen
>>
>>1722911
Wait, my fuck up here. I got confused about who you were and what you were referring to. You are correct.
>>
>>1722912
We have real world BRT networks to compare to the Vegas loop dumbass
>>
>>1722912
And they would be subject to road traffic.
>>
>>1722898
And you think this is a good enough argument to let you dig stuff underground because "the city doesn't have to pay for it"?
>>
>>1722912
Hey faggot, why are you ignoring the fact that all those separate cars still have to share the same single lane tunnels? Why are you ignoring the fact that they have to compete and maneuver for space at and around stations?
>>
>>1722917
Its called stations dumb ass. All maneuverings are done at stations.
>>
>>1722916
No, I don't. It's still an extremely stupid thing. I'm just saying that's a big reason why Vegas is allowing it. Vegas is full of and run by complete fucking morons. This whole idiotic exercise is very on-brand for a place like that.
>>
>>1722918
Congratulations you brain dead inbred, you just admitted that the hundreds of separate cars have to jockey for position with one another, which makes the made up throughout capacity you claimed impossible.
>>
>>1722918
So the cars going from A to B have to share lanes with cars going from A-C, D-B, D-A, B-G, etc etc etc. And when they try to pass through a station they aren't stopping at, they have to contend with the cars that are actually stopping and departing from that station.
>>
>>1722901
Brightline is funded by the government.

IDK about the others, but I checked the REM just to make sure. It costs $7 billion dollars. Thats a hefty price tag
>>
>>1722921
None of those cars will interact with each other.

There's two lanes that never interact with each other. The only "interaction" that will happens is when the two cars leave Station A, each will leave x number of seconds after wards. Neither of them will interact with each other as soon as they're in car. They'll go on their way.
>>
>>1722922
>It costs $7 billion dollars
That's Canadian, it's about 5.6 billion USD and that's with two rounds of cost overruns and Covid delays. It's a public/private partnership if you consider the Quebec Pension Plan to be private (it's technically public but it's run by a private entity to maximise returns). The point is that a profitable transit system that isn't retarded is possible.
>>
>>1722925
$5.6 billion is still a hefty price tag. Its much cheaper than anything in America by far. The California's $100 billion dollar HSR thats been in development for the last 20 years is pathetic.
>>
>>1722916
So now the argument is "NO YOU CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE NIMBY" rather than actual cost considerations. That sounds like you're arguing just for the sake of arguing in a vacuum.

What next? "NOOOO YOU CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE ITS NOT GOVERNMENT FUNDED"
>>
>>1722927
>The California's $100 billion dollar HSR thats been in development for the last 20 years is pathetic.
True but then that's outrageously expensive compared to basically every HSR ever made due to mismanagement. The people running the project are government bureaucrats who don't understand basic concepts like the fact that in rural areas a HSR is supposed to cut a path of destruction through the existing road and rail lines, with most roads that are cut not being replaced and instead two parallel roads on each side are supposed to be built with a bridge every now and again for cars to go over it. Instead every time it reaches a road they make a mile long bridge for the HSR instead. Just for comparison, the viability studies for a HSR system between Toronto and Quebec City is 32 billion US, and that's with more stops, a longer line on worst terrain that costs more to develop.
>>
>>1722878
You believed a shoddy blog site about this instead of the actual officials who have tested the system's capacity.
>>
>>1722934
The stations are literally too small to make 4,400 hourly throughput possible
>>
>>1722936
They've proven out their concept. You can make magical claims about it in fairy land, but the actual test was done physically with cars and people. 300 people were testing the system and repeatedly going from station to station multiple times to test out the system.
>>
>>1722937
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RPMt_FS-s8
>>
>>1722938
>guy's entire life revolve around "I HATE ELON MUSK"
Are you retarded?
>>
>>1722939
>>1722938
Oh wow, I just took a deep dive even more. These "I hate Elon Musk" is not just a single guy, but looks like an entire industry. How the fuck does that even happen? A fucking industry about "I HATE ELON MUSK."

This doesn't look like a healthy industry.
>>
>>1722940
>How the fuck does that even happen?
Industrial scale bullshit from Musk.
>>
>>1722941
Donate to my patreon

I hate Elon Musk.
>>
>>1722941
Cultish behaviors are unhealthy. Just saying.
>>
>>1722924
This isn't true and TBC doesn't even make this claim. You just completely made it up.
>>
>The worst subway system in the US by capacity has a theoretical hourly capacity of 390,000
57,000 sure sounds impressive to smoothbrains





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