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>get tired of the hypersport LARPworld that is motorcycling
>call 15 local bicycle shops
>nobody has any practical bikes
>everything is either a 47 speed carbon framed e-bike or visibly rusting chinkshit
>shops are filled with glossy sales staff instead of actual mechanics
It appears that the cancer of leisure has metastasized and destroyed pushbikes too. I thought the /n/world would be in a better state than it is.
>>
Every bike shop sells an entry level hybrid which is a relatively practical bike.
Whats the problem with this?

Fenders, racks, brooks, bell, lighting, can all be easily added.
>>
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>>1718665
Internal gears and brakes are significantly less maintenance, especially on a shitbike.

Compare that to something that has, from the start, been designed for low maintenance and long life. Consider that gazelles came out of the box with rod brakes, all the accessories you mentioned, plus integrated lock, chain guard, etc etc etc... in a quality frame designed for durability.

I think that's quite different to buying a random aliexpress bike and adding random mods to sort of approach that ideal.
>>
>>1718667
internal gears are terrible, we get this stupid discussion all the time. they're expensive and heavy and have very few real benefits, they also instill bad habits in new riders. rod brakes? no wonder you can't find what you want. killing your customers is bad business
>>
>>1718667
that bike literally weighs 23kg.
that makes it impractical if you ever have to lift it, or ride up a hill, especially considering that ostensibly it's a shopping bike and will very likely have a lot of additional weight too.
old-timey larp bikes aren't even that common from wence they came, those too have largely been superceded by more modern designs. I like them even, but it's a fashion choice.

It's bizarre to hear you defend rod brakes.
It makes no sense you want bikes fully loaded with accessories as standard. You have niche preferences and you can easily achieve them. There's no obstacle there. The bike shop you buy a bike from can choose and install all those things even you'd just need to specify it. What you're really asking for is bikes to all be several hundred dollars more expensive which would be a huge barrier for many new cyclists.

The seemingly sole real thing you're saying is that you like IGH and drum brakes... well, it's just bullshit that derailers and most modern brakes aren't reliable and simple. And you CAN buy a bike with an IGH. Nexus is a SHIMANO product.
>>
>>1718667
the other thing i'll say about bikes like this, as i've actually experimented with riding positions of that kind with several meme bars and stems on beaters is:

It fucks up your back to put effort in from that riding position. It's good only for cruising around. Cruising around everywhere only works when there isn't fast traffic or really cars at all and it's flat.
What happens is your spine/neck push in past your shoulders when you try to actually put in effort and it hurts.

A bike like that only works in a practical sense in a place with comprehensive separated bicycle infrastructure, and that's flat. Or, as a fun novelty. You actually cannot pedal it even vaguely hard.
>>
I wonder what bike OP actually rides.
>>
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>>1718671
>>1718673
>it makes no sense to want bikes fully loaded with accessories as standard
Bike-oriented countries like vietnam and the netherlands are dominated by practical bikes because normal ass people ride them at normal speeds in normal clothes to run normal errands. Not logging a PB on strava up a mountain in lycra.

What you are saying is the similar reasoning to US brodozer commuters who 'need' a 9L diesel truck with 10,000lbs towing capacity... just in case.
>>
I bet your chain case is not even oil bathed
>>
>>1718676
I dont think he does desu senpai
>>
>>1718679
>just in case.
Just in case what, someone buys a practical hybrid and doesn't want fenders or a rack?
Not riding in the rain or liking to use a backpack instead of a rack system isn't some unlikely hypothetical.

Why is it an issue?
>>
>>1718679
The other thing about fenders, is, look at your pic, most people are riding relatively narrow ~32mm tires. Those are efficient in the city, it's the right choice, but say someone wants to ride on rougher terrain, they might want wider.

A bike designed for 32mm + fenders probably has about 45mm of clearance.
Wanting 45mm tires on that bike isn't a niche choice, and by not speccing the fenders by default, you're saving that person the cost of them and the hastle of removing them.

Because fenders aren't 'no real downside', they take up a lot of your tire clearance.
>>
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>>1718682
Maybe it makes more sense with a motorcycle analogy

Most world markets offer a variety of 70-150cc air cooled shitbikes that are cheap, efficient, durable, low maintenance, designed to carry a load, top speed of maybe 50 mph.

Those are simply not available in the west, where the cheapest bikes are generally 300cc aspirational LARP sportbikes. Hypersport, huge ADV bikes, and harleys dominate the markets. The only forms of practicality are when things are the 'best in class', ie the most horsepower, or the biggest engine, or the highest cornering G etc. Gimmicks and gadgets abound. Hipster cafe/scrambler bikes abound, of mixed price and quality.

Ironically, honda sells versions of the practical 'cub' for westerners - instead of $1000 basic bikes, they are about $5000 and come with LEDs, wireless keyfobs, and gaudy paintjobs.

So a westener simply cannot buy a regular, practical bike. And it seems like a similar story with pushbikes; the bike shops are bristling with cervelo, specialised, trek, high end meme bikes with hydraulic brakes and carbon frames. To what end? It seems like lifestyle jewellry and benchracing how many grams you can save with no concern for everyday use.
>>
>>1718685
good brakes aren't jewellery retard. nothing you are saying is new or interesting
>>
>>1718685
yeah, late stage capitalism is a pain - i say this as someone that wrenched for years on cheap old vespas but wouldn't want a new one.
that hybrid posted earlier in the thread is a decent utilitarian bike though, other alternatives to leisure/sport based or task specific bikes are available widely also. maybe you just need to find a better shop ? harder in the US maybe but you'll find if you look. i'd avoid a massively heavy upright bike that relies on old tech myself though - something like that appears practical, may actually be the choice somewhere else, but likely isn't suitable to the riding or infrastructure you'll find here.
>>
>>1718658
https://www.worksmancycles.com/
here you go
>>
>>1718685
>Maybe it makes more sense with a motorcycle analogy
Maybe you're wrong and i'm trying to explain why to you.
>>
>>1718685
>So a westener simply cannot buy a regular, practical bike. And it seems like a similar story with pushbikes; the bike shops are bristling with cervelo, specialised, trek, high end meme bikes with hydraulic brakes and carbon frames. To what end? It seems like lifestyle jewellry and benchracing how many grams you can save with no concern for everyday use.

Good versions of what you're pretending to want are commonly available. You're just upset other things exist also.
The wider problem stopping their uptake and usefulness is lack of infrastructure.
>>
>>1718679
I'm guessing by the signs on 90% of those pictured are some gay rideshare.
>>
>>1718685
Please don't equate the US to the west. We have scooters and utility bikes over here in Europe.
>>
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>>1718691
>"good brakes aren't jewellery"
Adequate brakes aren't, excessive brakes are.

Picrel supercub >>1718685 does well with cable operated drum brakes, even though it's expected to stop a 80000w engine and a 220lb bike, from a 50 mph down a hill with a passenger etc.

But it's the norm to have sintered hydraulic disc brakes on pushbikes where a rider might wheeze out 300w. Or 1000w with electric assistance. Are hydraulic discs better brakes? Well... they feel better, and are a higher spec, but overkill isn't better. Blowing out the cost, adding points of leakage and failure, and increasing the maintenance complexity of a system is not 'better' - it's making a basic bicycle into a white elephant of a thing. High performance out of context, not socially useful.

Is a ferrari better than a toyota yaris? Sure, on a racetrack. But all of its super engine, soft tires, carbon brakes would be an expensive and useless burden for 99% of people on earth. Which is why children aspire to own them, and have posters of ferraris, but adults tend to avoid fragile & extreme headache machines.
>>
>>1718665
Such a hybrid bike is nice in dry, warm countries.

Here in NL it's not very practical for daily use. In winter there is salt on the roads and the chain will be rusted in just a few weeks, unless you lubricate it daily.

This in comparison with the traditional bike in: >>1718667
Gazelle is a good brand and these bikes easily last 20 years without much maintenance. The only downside is the dynamo. This system, where current is carried through the frame, is never really reliable.
>>
>>1718704
hydraulic disc brakes are much less mechanically complex than rim brakes and therefore more reliable, durability of components aside. you have no idea what you're talking about and you're on a board with people who do and find it boring.
>>
>>1718708
>you're on a board with people who do and find it boring.
I find it a somewhat enjoyable passtime
>>
>>1718706
depends what chain you have doesn't it? Many better chains aren't really at all prone to rust. I don't have much experience with salt but I find nicer kmc chains won't have a spec of rust on them even if you put em away wet all season until they wear out. And only lube them when they get loud enough to warrant it, like every few months.
>>
>>1718710
ok have u suggested indulging ur fetish of being smarter than children who think a mechanical brake is mechanically simpler than a hydraulic brake by becoming a college teacher or similar
>>
>>1718713
typed suggested instead of considered, excuse me
>>
>>1718704
>Is a ferrari better than a toyota yaris? Sure, on a racetrack.
Bad example anon. Toyota Yaris is a world championship rally winning platform. So that would depend on the racetrack.
Infact theres a long and storied history of ostensibly economy cars being high preformance and soulful drivers, with preformance versions, but also often just inherently with things like minis and civics.
Disc brakes too, are a feature that economy cars had many decades ago.

And for bicycles, your ferrari example doesn't hold up, because expensive bicycle parts largely are extremely durable. A new campagnolo groupset is quite likely to do more miles than nexus. Expensive bikes are very often ridden by the people who ride the most/hardest and the components reflect that with durability and quality being the key values as much if not more than preformance.
>>
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>>1718708
>>1718713
>hydraulic brakes
>simple
Wrong - hydraulics are full of rubber seals, springs, washers, pins, and pistons. All sensitive to cleaning, air and water contamination, and corrosion.

Nobody ITT said anything about rim brakes, but a drum + rod system is as simple as brakes get, and last for tens of thousands of miles without maintenance.
>>
>>1718713
I think it works better as a hobby than a profession
>>
>>1718716
>citing the friction material being attached to the backing plate as a mechanical complication
slow-in-the-mind
>>
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>>1718706
it's almost as if different places have different climates and cycling infrastructure, that these things define the design attributes and utilitarian value of the bikes ridden there.
>>1718704
look, i see what you're getting at here, am guessing you'd be happy(ish) with pic related, a raleigh sprite from the 70's. Simple, durable, not too compromised by superfluous tech, relatively comfortable - what's not to like, right ? like many here, i've no probs with people preferring bikes like this at all, agree that there should be more of them available even, and you may actually find something contemporary that's a very close copy - you'll pay much more for it relatively though, since the simple/durable/retro niche you're digging here puts you right into hipster bike boutique territory here if you follow it too dogmatically.
again, a contemporary brand name hybrid is probably your best bet at a simple and practical machine, is in fact a far better bike in many ways than an old raleigh sprite or it's equivalent anyway - it will be lighter, more comfortable, will have better brakes and gearing, and as a result will be a more usable and utilitarian bicycle overall.
>>
>>1718658
That bike is unironically SO fucking sexy.
Dat all black brutalist aesthetic. Would happily ride it while living in a commie block in some ex-soviet cunt.
>>
>>1718685
Man, at least in the US they get the Hunter Cub.
If that was available in Canada I would have purchased one but cheap/practical vehicles are an alien tongue to these motherfuckers. This is the reason I gave up on motorcycling too. More of a pain in the ass than pleasure.
>>
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>>1718685
You're looking for bikes in the wrong places, and at the wrong time. Cheapass durable bikes were easy to find Before Covid, and they were the entire industry's bread and butter. They have the highest margin, they attract new riders, of which some small percentage will go on to buy a more expensive model sometime down the line. Anything above $1k was harder to sell, and above $2k you'd see inventory sitting around forever, and the shop would usually have to sell them at a loss during the yearly clearance sale.

Now that everything is fucked, even Worksman Cycles is having a hard time keeping anything in stock. The reason why the bike stores you're calling only have the high-end stuff in stock is because everything else is sold out through the middle of next year or even into 2023. The industry didn't think that the bike boom would last, so they didn't do anything to increase production. Instead, backstock was eaten up, and then oh shit suddenly there's nothing left, production is way behind, raw materials are nowhere to be found, shipping a 40' container of shit from China has gone from $2k to $30k, and that container won't make it anywhere within a year anyway so they have to go air cargo. And if you think it's bad now, just wait until WW3 starts in two weeks! ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
>>
>>1718741
How can a black bike have a >brutalist aesthetic
WTF
>>
>>1718750
>Brutalism is a style of architecture [...] characterized by simple, block-like, hulking concrete structures.
>characterised by minimalist constructions that showcase the bare building materials and structural elements over decorative design.[4][5] The style commonly makes use of exposed, unpainted concrete or brick, angular geometric shapes and a predominantly monochrome colour palette

I'm sure you can use your imagination.
>>
>>1718676
We have this phenomenon in photography and , where someone knows a lot about gear and the "on paper" side of things but never actually does the hobby.
On /p/ we call them gearfags/nophotos, because they just talk about gear instead of taking photos.
Seems OP here has never ridden a bike before and wants one, but his gearfagging minmaxing is getting in the way.
>>
>>1718747
By that reasoning the market should be absolutely flooded with second hand bikes that have barely been used within 5~ years.
It's gonna be good.
>>
>>1718667
>Internal gears and brakes are significantly less maintenance
fucking retard nigger faggot
>>
>>1719325
High IQ argument bro. Which one from that picture best represents you?
>>
>>1718741
Arbeit macht frei
>>
>>1719303
does it still count if, like op, they are also clueless on paper
>>
>>1719333
Well yeah, another aspect is they think they know heaps where in reality they know nothing. I don't even know what OP is complaining about, literally get any fucking bike and you'll be fine.
>>
>>1719335
he wants worse, more complex bikes because he likes how they look. because he knows the names of the parts he wants, however, he claims its because he likes the engineering
>>
this thread got BTFO by the first post, whys it still going on
>>
>>1718685
You don't seem to actually be looking for a regular practical bike though. The stuff you've posted is all expensive excessive bikes made to telegraph how regular and practical you are. What are your actual priorities here? If it's riding a bike then you don't need half the shit you think you do.
>>
>>1718658
Practicality is contextual. A bike like your picture is practical if you need to travel on perfectly flat land over distances of less than 10 miles, a condition that exists in some northern european cities and basically nowhere else. If you were to stick with this corona shit for the long term and upgrade to using a bike for TRANSPORTATION and not LARPing as a dutch cancer, it might eventually occur to you why these "lance armstrong faggot bikes" exist for TRANSPORTATION outside of professional team sports

But /n/ turned into /fa/ years ago so people will continue to jerk off over this /fa/ garbage
>>
>>1718679
Riding 20km/h isn't normal.
>>
>>1718679
>What you are saying is the similar reasoning to US brodozer commuters who 'need' a 9L diesel truck with 10,000lbs towing capacity... just in case.

More like saying they want a 2021 Corolla to commute in while you insist that if they weren’t a try hard they would just drive a Trabant.
>>
>>1719348
i made that post and then i made more posts
>>
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>>1719408
>A bike like your picture is practical if you need to travel on perfectly flat land over distances of less than 10 miles, a condition that exists in some northern european cities and basically nowhere else.
>>
>>1719444
note how none of these are the bougie shit the OP wants
>>
>>1718706
Dutchbro can you tell me why lots of dutch bikes have drum brakes?
I watch a dutch youtuber do bike repairs and he has drum brakes on most of his bikes and even takes rim brakes off bikes to put drum brakes on instead.
I don't understand, they seem worse than rim brakes in every way to me.
>>
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Has anyone here tried one of these Ortler Van Dyck bikes?
Seems like a great value dutch bike for the price
>>
>>1719471
They all have the swept back handles, chain guards, and racks, though. However, the popularity of the Electra brand has helped the beach cruiser market, and SixThreeZero is a cheaper brand of beach cruiser. The 3 speed is their expensive option (my personal favorite since it’s internal and has coaster brakes), but they have single speed and 7 speed options.
But in the US you want to look for “beach cruisers” to find a practical city bike. BrooklynBicycles and State Bicycles also have their good town-bike options. And these are new stuff around $500-$800. You can look for commuter bikes on FB marketplace and find a single speed rust-bucket for $100 (probably can talk the guy down to $70). Bike skirts are cheap if you really want one, too.
>>
>>1718658
Just buy a two hundred dollar road bike from Craigslist to see if cycling is even for you. Once you ride at least 500 miles you will have somewhat of an understanding of the sport and can appreciate a new machine.
>>
>>1718658
You're just contrary it'll pass in about a week.
>>
>>1719542
op wants integrated locks, dynamos, igh and fucking drum brakes
all the poo bikes there are made to be light, not sporting fully enclosed chain guards or whatever the fuck those indian (the bike manufacturer) tier fenders are called
his perfect bike weighs as much as the fucking ricksha thing in that pic
>>
>>1719529
Their country is completely flat. They care more about being able to abuse a bike for years with 0 maintenance than having good breaks. Of course riding bike with a rear drum brake down a large hill in traffic is insane, but that isn't s problem for them because they have no big hills and they have separate bike roads for the most part. I don't argue that their bikes are bad for them. If i lived there I'd ride the same sort of bike as my main utility bike. Here in the Texas hill country that sort of bike would be useless as a utility bike, so i ride a 90s rigid mtb. People like OP just like a particular style of bike because they have an idealistic idea of what riding it is like. I guarantee you that OP has never ridden a heavy cruiser style bike anywhere with hills
>>
>>1718658
Sorry your city sucks.
>>
>>1719440
I think you'll find I made that post and the subsequent ones.
>>
>>1718658
Fuck your local bike shops, just buy online. Our local economies are never going to be what they were again. Main street America is dead.
>>
>>1719412
It's kinda slow, you're right.
>>
>>1718670
>internal gears are terrible
false
>>
>>1718658
Heh heh heh

He doesn't know
>>
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>>1718679
why
>>
>>1719657
>Main street America is dead
Yes, from buying online. Things like cycling shoes i must buy in person.
>>
>>1719684
I made this post and now regret showcasing my stupidity. I take it back. internal gear hubs are dumb.
>>
>>1719768
>oh, that? we don't have that but we can order it for you and have it in 7-10 business days
>our website said we have it? sorry just what you see here
>oh that completely normal size? sorry we just have the sizes you see because we only cater to out of shape hamplanets
>oh that tasteful and decent colorway? sorry we only have hi-viz yellow because we only cater to spergs who have never heard of lights
>oh that respectable brand? sorry we only carry specialized because mike sinyard's lawyers threatened to sue us if we sell what customers actually want
>we regret to inform you that we are going out of business due to our disloyal customers refusing to shop here, waah waah waah
>>
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>>1718679
why: part 2
>>
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>>1718658
surly
u
r
l
y
>>
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>>1718679
Imagine being a seat sniffer in the Netherlands.
>>
>>1719325
Do Americans not know about salt on the roads and how it fucks up everything trying to ride across them?
>>
>>1719894
That's only really a thing up north, remember that like half of Americans live either on the coasts or so far south it basically never snows. I've only ever seen snow a couple times in my life and once was this year when we had a freak freeze that lasted like a week. Just 1 week of freeze and most people lost electricity and running water, and not even emergency vehicles could drive around really. I don't even know if my city is capable of salting roads if they wanted to
>>
>>1719934
They don’t salt the roads in AK. The moose get onto the roads to lick the salt and it’s too dangerous. People just use stressed tires and tons of gravel.
>>
>>1719825
lol you just described my local bike shop.
>>
>>1719825
lel I've been through 4 bike shops like this precisely until I finally found a decent one not run by retards, thank d-g.
Matter of fact, I have to go there in a few hours to grab a chain whip/lockring tool
>>
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>>1718679
>Bike-oriented countries like vietnam
anon I have bad news for you...
>>
>>1719793
false
>>
While I totally understand what OP wants in his bike, I will have to thank >>1719542 for mentioning Beach Cruiser. Close enough to what I'm looking for here in the US and there are a bunch of cheap options here in Craigslist/Facebook. I'll pick one up since I don't want to risk my more expensive bikes on an errand/fast food machine.
>>
>>1718667
>gazelle-tour-populair
>Weight in Lb. 50.4
>50.4 Pound to Kilogram converter
>50.4 lbs = 22.861055448 kg

Holy blyat, this kind of bikes isn't designed for eastern europe commie blocks. Looks great tho. Still, 22 fucking kg? For what?
>>
>>1718658
5 Flying Pigeon only cost 100 $
>>
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Okay sirs, how can I do the needful and obtain this beautiful example of classic British-Indian engineering in Europe?
>>
>>1721718
lerk around rubbish dump / second hand store / estate sale / bike shop closure / museum closure
http://happyearth.in/store/catalogsearch/result/?q=Raleigh
>>
>>1721703
To use it as catapult ammo
>>
>5950 rupee
http://thecyclewala.org/product/classic-man/
>7650 rupee
https://www.suncrossbikes.com/bike.php?type=2&b_id=12&id=339
>Atlas cycles dead
https://news.abplive.com/uncut/kya-khabar/on-world-bicycle-day-famous-atlas-cycles-shuts-down-operations-lays-off-workforce-1252153
>the necromancer
https://www.accell-group.com/en/raleigh-uk-7.htm
>still no dice 5 K scripts blocked
https://www.raleigh.co.uk/gb/en/bikes/classic-bikes/
>not in stock
https://www.amazon.in/Raleigh-CLASSIC-Bicycle-Black-Green/dp/B01611OCEQ

do the needful indeed
>>
>>1718658
>cancer of leisure has metastasized and destroyed pushbikes too
That's simply because bicycles aren't considered a form of transportation but as toys by the general population.
>>
>>1721755
Its only a very few idiots saying such idiotic things. Plenty of people recognize bicycles as a valid, adult form of transportation and that sentiment is only gaining popularity.
>>
>>1721765
kek bikes are in no way practical for transporting anything other than yourself
>>
>>1721737
>>Atlas cycles dead
>https://news.abplive.com/uncut/kya-khabar/on-world-bicycle-day-famous-atlas-cycles-shuts-down-operations-lays-off-workforce-1252153
Why the fuck do you shut down in the middle of the biggest bike boom of last 30 years?
>>
>>1721828
might have got wrecked by his suppliers for just long enough to have gone insolvent
but there is a wider context of their business being in decline for a long time
at their peak they made 20 Lakhs of bike per year
towards the end they only make 2 Lakhas of bike per year
>>
>>1721775
cute delivery girl, I wonder what she's moving.
>>
OP, is your name Grant by any chance?
>>
>>1718658

>shops are filled with glossy sales staff instead of actual mechanics
Having a working knowledge of bike interchangeability, torque specs, and so on requires more knowledge than it used to. You can now work as an auto mechanic and be paid more, and more reliably, than if you're a bicycle mechanic.
Originally, you could get 90% of the shit done with a crescent wrench, a la Schwinn, and torque was "meh, good enough."
Now you've gotta loctite and then torque wrench spec stuff, often for a shit wage. Sales staff are (or at least were) cheap to hire, and do the basic assembly and 90% of the build sometimes on things like the cheaper bikes, and the mechanic just does the touch-up (e.g., limit screws). Sales staff learn the ropes and move up and sometimes out from being bike shop mechanics.

>everything is either a 47 speed carbon
Most hybrids themselves are basically just re-badged road bikes with mountain bike shifters/v-brake/mechanical disc levers. You can churn them out by the hundreds, whereas a 'practical bike' with an EXTREMELY sharp rake and trail like that upright there will require a whole new production line.
Newbie riders who buy the bulk of bikes have a matrix of concerns-
Cost (see above, they're just a spare 1000 frames from a pre-existing design/geometry. No R&D, no separate line. 'Cheap for how light they are.')
Weight (obviously, the hybrid wins here)
Comfort (which doesn't show up during the 'loop around the parking lot' that bike shops allow).
They won't buy a practical bike, because it costs $$$.

E-bikes are bike shops' and manufacturers' dreams, because the work is harder to DIY/requires new tools. For manufacturers, the e-motor is there to compensate for shitty build quality.
The battery will fail well before the frame.
The profit margins are out of this world, since any reputable battery maker has a client list that's a mile long- what are you gonna do, skimp on the battery/buy an off-brand and burn down your apartment?
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>>1718670
I think he means rod-connected drum brakes, not rod brakes-to-rim like on the old Raleigh Tourists.
That said, I've had to come to realize that IGH have serious drawbacks- esp. if changing flats.

>>1718671
It is impractical in hilly areas, I agree. I wish they'd make a chromoly ver. that weighed 23, ditched a tube, a few more minor changes and you can bring it down to at least 20. Personally, I had an o.g. Raleigh Superbe, with Sturmey Archer, dynohub, o.g. steel fenders, fork lock, rack, bell and lights, I alloyed a few parts on it (crank, rims, stem, seatpost, bars, kickstand, brakes, headset.,), and it weighed in at only like, ~14kg., (which was a massive improvement, but it shows what's possible if you keep weight in mind!) It removed the weight as a factor in being an obstacle to its daily use.

>>1718673
I've experienced this myself. I live atop a big hill, put on a very tall stem to get upright, but now have realized that getting up that hill on my bike is actually quite painful to my back, and I'm now moving toward a hybrid design (even thinking of going for a road bike with panniers and dynamo hub).

>>1718685
I've noticed this as well. You cannot get a practical motorbike in America, any more than a practical bicycle. You have to really hunt for it, generally used/vintage, special import, or a knockoff that kind of apes it.

>>1718720
That thing's gorgeous and would work in more environments than OP's. Some smaller manufacturers are doing manufacturer-direct (e.g., brooklyn bikes, public, etc.,) and are vaguely imitative of this style, which I think works in more places than the dutch bike which can't comfortably climb at speed without injuring the rider through strain, unless in so low a gear that it's a crawl, defeating the purpose.
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>>1718679
i see a nig
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>>1719444
That picture is Bengal, which has the same very flat terrain Holland has
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>>1718658
>>shops are filled with glossy sales staff instead of actual mechanics

a few days ago i was driving in front of the local lbs just like you described. around when they close for the evening.
so i saw the bike mechanic leave through the back entrance with a 90s mtb with rack and basked.
made me kek.
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>>1719303
>nophotos
That's just you and a couple of newfags lmao





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