Does anyone here actually have hope for their city’s transport infrastructure? Whenever I visit my hometown I see a bunch of new apartment buildings downtown and a few new bike lanes every time. It’s pretty impressive considering how shitty my city was growing up.
>>1707928>my cityjust say it i mean holy fuck dude you made a thread about itdo we have to have this conversation in the abstract ?
>>1707928Maybe you should pray to Jane Jacobs about it
>>1707928Thank god we have another one
>>1707928Yes. Almost all mayoral candidates in Boston support expanding the subway and improving Bike infra
>>1707928pretty much every road in that pic has sidewalks
>>1707963Love to do normal kid outside stuff like Walking Sidewalks and, Looking At Traffic, and,
>>1707937>but none of them support a north-south rail link
>>1708043There are stores there too.
>>1708043How could you POSSIBLY suggest parking lots aren’t a bastion of entertainment and culture?!?!t. cagetroll
>>1707928I was feeling pretty bleak about the truck stop town I live in, but I read the regional planning document and there are actually funded projects for bike paths and crosswalks near where I live, so at least there's consideration for it in the future.
we just got new double decker busses which is pretty cool and unique, but we aren't quite there and rail service needs to be a serious consideration for the future considering the actual dozens of giant apartment complexes they are constructing all over the city every year and tens of thousands moving out of vancouver
>>1707928I live in Yekaterinburg. Love my tatras.
>>1708151Kelowna had double decker busses when i lived there 10 years ago
I live in Montevideo, UruguayI have no hope.Although more people are riding bikes than ever, bike lane efforts have been half hearted and the new mayor doesn't give a single fuck about bikes, all transport plans I've heard are about electric buses (which are pretty cool, fuck noise). Meanwhile, there's no way to bike to and from downtown without risking being crushed by a bus maneuvering to get past another buspic related
I live in Raleigh. We have some more dense development going up but the only real transportation changes I'm aware of are buses. Meanwhile they're rebuilding a chunk of i440 and I can already tell it's going to be a mess.We can't even agree on a rail from here to Durham/RTP, and all the satellite towns are blowing up with sprawl.
>>1708332>risking being crushed by a bus maneuvering to get past another busThat sucks. I have no personal experience with that city, but it kind of sounds like what I saw when I visited Kyoto. Some lines are so heavily used that there's literally a bus every 2-4 minutes, and just a slight delay can easily cause a multi-bus stackup on a single stop.
San Francisco here I have no idea
>bike lanes >in cities with winter Why are lefties so unbelievably retarded?
>>1708444>some cities don't have winter
>>1708444bike lanes open from x date until y datehow is this so hard to understand for you
>>1708444>what is plowing snow offroad tires perform fine on packed snow
>>1708479Those are plowed bike paths. Bike lanes become unusable after the snowplow pushes all the snow on them from the street.
>>1708447>can’t use bike lane>can’t use roads due to congestion because bike lanes now take up half the street You should become a city planner
>>1708482>>1708487You have obviously never lived in a city that has winter. After you clear the snow there is ice buildup on the pavement. It’s barely possible to walk on these paths let alone ride a bike. Please read a book or go outside before replying to my posts
>>1707928Maybe my shitty city (LA) can better bike infrastructure and finish some light rail lines sometime before they force the olympics on us.Not holding my breath though some bike gutters, sharrows, and signs and they say job well done.
>>1708571LA is already great to bike in, IMO. Those nice wide lanes mean cars can pass you safely without leaving the lane. I’ve lived here my whole life and all of the run ins I’ve had with cars have either been intersections, driveways, or my fault. So not really much you can do about those. The only thing that we really need is more people riding, which the last year has been great for. Some more grade-separated stuff like the la river and ballona creek paths would be awesome too, maybe if the la river path connected through the valley to Ventura.
>>1708565>build more trainsproblem solved
>>1708487then plow the bike lanes too
Oslo, it's already functional. It's expected to be well above capacity in like 15 years though unless they build a new metro line and they keep dragging their feet, so I kind of expect it to become really bad.They have a couple of recommended tram projects that may or may not happen, the stupid politicians keep demanding tram projects that will actually make transportation run worse and it's quite likely that they'll choose to spend like 100 million euro on rebuilding a station to become worse and cause more delays instead of spending that money on the new recommended lines.It's a bit frustrating to see how they plan the streets because they're never willing to remove car traffic from any streets and they only rarely make it one way driving. So there can only be small improvements. I wish they were brave like in the 90s or whenever it was and actually removed cars from some streets.The bike planners also absolutely LOVE traffic lights, they spam them everywhere on the bike routes, which is obviosly terrible, and often there isn't even any traffic on the streets, so obviously cyclists will just ride past, but that's risky too because the police hates cyclists and love to give fines. That's probably one of the worst parts of the bike planning. They don't even build lanes behind the traffic lights when there lights without intersection, so even if you aren't crossing any streets you still have to wait.They also use insane amounts of salt in the winter, so unless you want to buy a new bike every week you can't cycle then.On the positive side though at least they are investing and putting in some effort, even if much of it flawed.If a street is already quite good you'd probably want them to not upgrade it because then they'd add traffic lights and it more difficult.I don't think things will actually get bad, I think it'll remain functional for a long time. If the transit exceeds capacity maybe prises will be driven up or more people may drive or use bike, idk.
>>1708116WTF this looks the most retarded system ever. Why haven't they connected the North and South?
>>1708584Have been getting back into riding after a few years of not. Does take a little bit of courage and stamina to brave those bike lanes. But seen too many cars peel out of driveways and cheat on turns to ever really feel others might think it's safe riding out here. Do like those paths, especially want the la river path to be completed. Saw the plan but don't know what the timeline is now for that.
>>1708643Sounds like it's ok, even if not perfect. I hope it remains as such.
>>1708591This is what I’ve been saying but nobody will listen
>>1708649If id guess id say they just used the old amtrack lines to run a commuter service with little to no investment here so asking for a north south link is like asking for the moon for them.
>>1708567>what is salt
>>1708116Actually Barros did. He got 3% of the vote. Apparently people don’t give a shit
>>1708444they just need to put a roof over the lanes
>>1707937Expanding the subway to where? They can't even get the Blue Line extended to Charles, and the existing tunnel goes more than half way there for fucks sake.Tear out all the B, C, and E Green Line track and convert it to busways for hybrid buses. Let the D continue to use the downtown tunnels and Lechmere viaduct. They're never going to overcome the NIMBYism or have the funds to build anything else, and they barely can keep what they have running as-is.
>>1708358Still dragging their feet on the New Bern Ave BRT huh? Also the Raleigh-Garner commuter rail idea went nowhere (which is a good thing).Hopefully light rail will never happen here. There's no good place to put it other than the freight lines, and those are off the table. I could accept an airport high-speed boondoggle as a "prestige" project but the only way to make that work is to run it through Umstead on a viaduct, and you might as well propose to build it on a sacred Indian burial ground for all the opposition you'd get.I'm cashing the fuck out once 540 is built out where I live. It was a nice place to raise kids but it's boring as fuck. Give me the Rockies for hiking and mountain biking or the Florida coast for sailing.
>>1708649It's an OLD city with shitloads of buried infrastructure that'd have to be mapped out, there's no room to do a cut-and-cover (could have made it part of the big dig but they did not, so it's fucked), and it'd end up costing trillions for very little ROI. At the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal to take the Red Line to Park, change for the Green Line, and take that to North Station.
>>1708967Trillions? I believe the projection is tens of billions, bringing it down from fantasy land a little.
>>1708444i see winter bikers all the time in fucking duluth
>>1708710Yeah it's ok, and compared to many cities it's great, but it's frustrating to see them making the mistakes.I may also have been a bit too negative in what I wrote. While they do like traffic lights and add them or don't remove them places where they are unnecessary, there are only in some locations that they're so bad it's awful. Sadly one of those places is the main route from east to west in the city centre.
>>1708959I dunno about the New Bern thing. I don't care about buses as long as we are a 100% car city, since the bus will always be stuck in traffic.I feel like we could find a way to put a rail from some of the satellites to RTP and maybe make i40 etc less of a shit show. But it won't happen. We're just gonna sprawl like Atlanta and I'll move to a more enlightened city. Like... Uhh....
God that looks like such a shithole. I’m guessing either Missouri or Texas.
>>1709365Suburb of Ottawa, Canada. To be fair this will (hopefully) all be TOD by the end of the decade when the BRT line in the middle is converted to light rail.
>>1709478Ah, I remember a good video about parking minimums in Ottowa.https://youtu.be/uYPMmKrwgPc
>>1707928You must live in some red state.
>>1709735Bizarre that this was uploaded by the City of Ottawa
>>1707928>Reykjavík>building a BRT systemI'm cautiously optimistic. There are people lobbying against it, and I'm afraid that if they win and the row is removed at important places the failed brt will be used as an expamle against any further improvements of the public transport infrastructure.
>>1709802I still don't understand how and why Parisians re-elected her? Idiocy? Masochism?
>>1709992she's a good mayor and she will be a good presidentthe scholz-hidalgo era is coming
>>1710015>she's a good mayorHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Man that's a good one, almost as good as her plan to make the seine swimmable by 2024
>>1709985Isn't BRT just a meme? Just make dedicated bus routes with a clear design language instead.Wouldn't Reykjavik be a good city for cycling? Is there any effort put into making bikes useable?
>>1710145>Isn't BRT just a meme? Just make dedicated bus routes with a clear design language instead.I belive the total separation from traffic along the busiest corridors makes it better then good bus routes. Also it will have platform at the height of the bus and other lrt type features. And supposedly brt spaces can be converted to lrt once it is at full capacity. >Wouldn't Reykjavik be a good city for cycling? Is there any effort put into making bikes useable?It's windy all year long, and I wouldn't want to cycle from the suburbs. It's not a subject I've investigated, but I belive there are some good routes there.
>>1710166BRT is a cheap to install but more expensive maintenance version of light rail. But BRT is easier to adjust and clear for snow, I think? In any event, it’s easier to get public funding for the cheaper to install option, even though trolly cars last historically for over 100 years.
>>1710252>BRT is a cheap to install but more expensive maintenance version of light rail.How do you figure that?
>>1710412Roads and bridges are cheaper than roads, bridges, and electrified rail. Also, busses are cheaper than rail carts. Light rail will probably still go over asphalt, so you need to redo that for the rails to go through. However, tire ware and gas/battery power is much more expensive than steel-on-steel and direct power transfer.
>>1710414Both work by having their own dedicated lines/lanes and priority green light at intersections (if above ground). BRT this functions like a trolly without a track or overhead wires.
My city in Texas is adding more rail and bike lanes, but the TXDOT is expanding a freeway even after locals are protesting against it. Freeways never help the locals, they just help people from outside at the expense of locals.
>>1710440>Freeways never help the locals, they just help people from outside at the expense of locals.That's your opinion
>>1710443That’s a fact. They demolish locals’ homes to build an expressway for outsiders to enter the city. The locals suffer at the expense of the outsiders’ freeway.
>>1710452>That’s a fact.No, it's your opinion based on your preconceived notions about people you know nothing about
>>1710443proof of the opposite?
I wonder why TXDOT doesn’t give a shit about the protests of all the locals. We have already shittons of freeways in this city and it doesn’t help traffic. I guess TXDOT wants to enrich their contractor buddies.
>>1710466Defend your own opinion first, shill
>>1710466He doesn’t have any and he knows he’s full of shit.Freeways are for outsiders to enter the city, at the expense of the city. If you want to help locals, build bike lanes and parks.
>>1709069How is Duluth's biking infrastructure?
>>1710443>>1710479>freeway clears out as you leave city, even with less lanes>freeway gets congested with traffic into the cityI can assure you that with a few tiny exceptions local traffic will use their freeway.
>>1710479Still incorrect. Freeways carry lots of local traffic.
>>1710471Gotta keep those contracts coming. Koch Industries is the largest seller of asphalt in the United States.
>>1709069>duluth>winterso basically just cold weather lmao
>>1710471>Implying activists represent a majority of local residents
>>1710475i didn't make any claim, you did.
>>1711170>top 5 snowiest city in the US>almost 7ft annuallybro what
>>1711187>t. can't defend his own talking point
>>1711189He might be a dumbass thinking you meant Duluth GA, not Duluth MN
>>1708847There is zero scientific evidence of this working.
>>1710471A few what are probably poor beaners aren't the majority.
>>1708123Kids don’t have money to spend in stores
>>1709985>There are people lobbying against it, and I'm afraid that if theythe Independents are the only real opposition and they stand little chance in Reykjavík municipal elections>>1710166>Wouldn't Reykjavik be a good city for cycling?Reykavík is dark and icy in winter with salted roads, windy and stormy all year round and very hillyin addition most of the city outside the historic downtown was built post ww2 and follows a very typical postwar car centric designthe saving grace is the sheer size of the city as the Reykjavík capital area is only about 200k people so distances are manageable almost wherever you arethe cycling infrastructure is unremarkable but rapidly improving as the current liberal city council is very pro-cyclingthe bike paths have multiplied in length in just a few yearsI do bike to work every day about 7km each way and of those about 2km are on road, 0.5km on sidewalks (legal in Iceland) and 4.5km on bike paths/mixed use pathwaysI meet multiple cyclists and escooterists every day on those paths, except when we had a bad storm earlier this week I had them all to myselfto sum up, could be better, could be worsepic related, a very recent dedicated bike path close to the downtown harbor area
>>1711483There doesn't need to be scientific evidence for things that are self-evidently the case. I mean, there is also zero scientific evidence that purple paint will turn your mom's tits purple... but it clearly does, and salt clearly melts snow. The fuck is wrong with you.
>City shut down one of its light rail lines a couple years ago>Closed down half of all its bus routes over the course of the last couple years due to lack of use>Nobody rides remaining train and bus lines, pretty common for them to be empty>Train lines get shut down for months at a time for arbitrary reasonsNo there's no hope.
>>1712168where u from senpai
>>1710471I live near 45 and I support it. It bottlenecks from 4 lanes to 2 and creates tremendous traffic. I don't see how getting rid of left lane mergers and getting rid of bottlenecks is bad. The people protesting this don't live near it aren't affected by the current issues.The only people who have any issues with this are the homeless population on the east side of the city that will have to find somewhere else to stay until the larger underpasses are completed.
>>1712334San Jose, one light rail line and a bunch of bus routes were shut down due to low ridership at the beginning of 2020. The trains were always close to empty, but ever since the Pandemic nearly all the busses I've been on have been almost completely empty, even on what used to be popular routes.
>>1711196my talking point was provide proof to your claim.
>>1713350Not my problem
>>1713350Cagetrolls can't provide any proof for anything, they're just here to throw shit at the wall.
I think driving is fine. Beats riding the bus.
>>1708116That must be one congested center if the entire city has to pass through it.
>>1710471>the localsThe entire 45 corridor is trash, their opinions don't matter if they let their home turn into shit. That goddamn freeway has to be expanded, it's fuking dangerous as is, highest rate of fatal crashes in America IIRC.
>>1715956Expanding freeways leads to more traffic fatalities.
>>1707928Not really since the future doesn't look very stable.
>>1715965Fatalities by percentage of traffic or by gross number of crashes you dunning-kruger commie. There isn't even an emergency lane on large parts of 45, it's a terrible design and needed to be updated for decadesalsoAre you really going to live in htown and worry about nimby shit and actually pretend to care about "historic neighborhood" stripmall ghettoes?
>>1716012>tells someone they're suffering from dunning-krueger>can't tell the difference between a question mark and a periodLol.If you want to reduce traffic datalities, expanding the freeway is the worst thing you can do.https://cityobservatory.org/odots_big-lie/
>>1707928Charleston WV here. Personally I think we need a bus network, but besides that we're a very thin valley town that doesn't really require much in terms of transit. We have an AMTRAK station, with all the trains going from the midwest to DC passing by. So that's nice. We can't really do anything about our airport, it's a regional airport that services some local and a few international ones. All an all we're going pretty okay I guess.
>>1716124This looks like a PRIME Wuppertal Schwebebahn opportunity
>>1708444>you cant possibly cycle in snow!!american spotted.
Minneapolis continues to expand their light rail and add new BRT lines. When you add in their excellent cycling infrastructure and compare them to similarly sized/situated cities like Milwaukee, KC and Detroit, Minneapolis is basically god tier.
>>1708565More like>Can't use bike lanes>Push snow onto it>Snow plows now don't annoy anyone>Useless bikelanes find new purpose as frozen water platforms.
>>1708116>>1708649>most retarded system everIt's a retarded map.>>1713499It's a 1/4 mile walk from the red/orange station to the blue/orange station.
>>1708444>car lanes and sidewalks can be snow plowed but bike lanes somehow can'tI wanna see the hoops for you to talk your way out of this one.
>>1716124Charleston bro, that pic always get me. My brain picks out the contours from the image, even before reading the text/filename.I'm from WV, lived on Watts St, Westside for a few years after college. I'm over in Ohio now, but I've got fond memories.>>1716302>Wuppertal Schwebebahn opportunityThe Wupper is quite narrow, 80-90ft. In that pic, the smaller N-S river is ~200ft wide, and the larger E-W river is 600-700ft wide. It's a good daydream though.
>>1708479Finns are just built different, you can't compare them to wimpy anglos
>>1707928>DC AreaWell, my hometown is probably not going to get any real transit expansion for a decade at least. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't really have hope for it.The rest of the region will be fine. >The Purple Line, despite the bullshit it's dealing with, is going to be done in about a year or two. >The Silver Line is going to open up at Dulles in a few months.>Metro finally has dedicated funding stream>Repairs taken seriously>Metro hours are expanding again>CaBi network expanding (though station maintenance needs improvement)>Regional governments are at least giving verbal commitment to transit expansion and are pushing TODFor all its faults (I mean, there are still issues with the train safety), there's hope for the region.
>>1708274>living in ekati pray for you
>>1718072WTF is that picture? Looks interesting
>>1707928oh no the strip mall has a lot of parking
>>1716498weird, i live in msp and constantly think about how much it sucks for transit. the biking is basically non-existent since the "lanes" are just painted on the ground [barely] instead of separated.the green line extension is nice but only 2 lines for an area of 4mil is ridiculous.
>>1716124its impressive how little Charleston was sliced up by the interstate going through it. It crosses at a river and then hugs the mountain before crossing again at the outskirts
>>1716093WOWEE REDDITOR YOU SHOWED HIM WITH THE GRAMMAR ARGUMENT!!!!!!!!
>>1723765Probably a gas/petroleum line.
>>1723765>>1724407It's a gantry for runway approach lights
>>1707928I hope my city bribes IOC officials enough to host the Olympics again so we'll actually spend some money on infrastructure like public transit.
>>1707928I'm in Tempe, there's plenty of bike lanes but the drivers here are so fucking stupid that I just ride on the sidewalks anyways
>>1708482>>1708882>>1716469>>1718063It's not about plowing or snow buildup you idiots. It's that no one wants to ride a fucking bike around in sub-zero weather. Why would I be out freezing my ass off just to get places slower when I could be in a comfy heated car? The bike lanes will be empty and wasting space for a good third of the year.
>>1724673fuck off cam
>>1724679Because a car is slower, dumbass
>>1724689Only if you're some 9-5 faggot who has to drive through a city during rush hour
>>1724702Yeah being a normal person is for the gay homosexuals, REAL MEN are either unemployed or work the night shift as a security guard
>>1707928I have multiple cars, anon. I don't give a single fuck about my city's transportation infrastructure. The only people who use it are ghetto trash, I'd just as soon see it dismantled so they'd move somewhere else.
>>1724604Ah, I see it now. ThanksWeird, wonder where that is
>>1724679You’ve never been to places with real snow. In Fairbanks and Anchorage, people still walk, run, and bike on the bike lanes even when it gets 40 below and colder. You’re a pussy who’d rather cozy up with sacks of McDonald’s than even look outside.
>>1724405There were a number of fallacies in his post, and yeah if you're going to call someone stupid you might want to master the basics of punctuation. The post you replied to also refuted his post in several different ways using empirical facts, which cagetrolls are allergic to.Nice goalpost-moving.
>>1725911Charleston, WV - Yeager Airport
>>1707930I get that land is plentisome in america but why does the zoning allow for giant plains of parking lots in the downtowns? At least put this shit stacked or underground
>>1726299People in the 60s had a lot of stupid ideas about urban planning.Btw, the zoning didn't *allow* it, the zoning *required* massive plains of parking. That meant tearing down historic buildings in many cases.
>>1726304I don't care. Price of progress
>>1726299>I get that land is plentisome in america but why does the zoning allow for giant plains of parking lots in the downtowns?People wanted parking more than disused buildings. Property owners would rather have something generating income than an underutilized building with no tenants. When the land is worth more than the parking lot on it, it will be built upon
>>1726299>why does the zoning allow for giant plains of parking lots in the downtowns?Landowners don't like having derelict buildings on their property and they don't want empty lots either, so the best solution is to turn it all into parking lots.A downtown of Parking lots is substantially safer than a downtown of abandoned crack dens and generates more revenue than a downtown full of empty lots.>At least put this shit stacked or undergroundWhy? There's no demand for parking, those lots only exist because they're a better alternative to having abandoned buildings, they're almost entirely empty 99% of the time. In a lot of places, parking lots cover more area than buildings. You could get rid of three quarters of all these downtown parking lots in most places before you start getting a shortage of downtown parking spots that necessitates building expensive parking structures.
>>1726497With modern technology it's possible to create parking lots without taking so much space away from others than cars. But unfortunately it costs quite lot of money.
>>1726721Anon, you don't seem to understand that most Downtown parking lots don't exist for the purpose of parking.
>>1718060The problem isn't that it's hard to get between North Station and South Station. You can actually just take the orange line from North Station to Back Bay or Ruggles to catch most southbound commuter rail and Amtrak trains. The problem is the train schedules between north and south sync up horribly. You have to kick around in the city sometimes an hour or two between trains to get from say, Haverhill to Providence. It's super inefficient. What should take like 2 hours actually takes 3 or 4. N/S link means you just pass through the city on the same train without having to wait for another.
>>1708649That’s a map of the commuter rail lines, so they just go downtown. The actual subway in Boston (and busses) go north an south
Actually I think the socialists have it right. Just shove everyone into shitty pigeon holes and you wont need transport links anymore. If the want to talk, use Social Media, you know, the Made in China, 'I swear we aren't looking' 5G network.
Well here in New York we finally completed the east side access. Still waiting on a train to LaGuardia...
>>1707928>be me>live in town of <1000 pop>will never experience mass transitI like to watch people fight about banning cars, and either way it doesn't affect me, or if it does I get to see big gooberment try some absolute hairbrain shit to get us all transitable.
>>1728092>either way it doesn't affect meLoser mentality
>>1728092>will never experience mass transitMy village is similarly small, we used to have a rail that passes through that had morning and evening service, but due to cars it gradually died until it became only used a few times per year by a few companies during harvest and eventually even that closed and it was turned into a gravel bike path.
>>1707937They will never expand the subway in a meaningful way, and to be honest, they probably shouldn't. They could barely extend the green line to Tufts, and that took decades longer than it should have.The B and C above ground should become a busway for electric/CNG buses. That's about all the area can afford.As for bikes... yeah, fuck that noise. I've tried it - the 'fun' comes to an end once cold weather sets in. If you can't afford to live conveniently on the Red or Orange line, and you can't afford a car, move the fuck out. That's what I did. Best choice ever.
>>1709242Once 540 is done you'll be able to haul ass (expensively) around the worst traffic, but it doesn't do much to help with traffic on Capital Blvd or 401 south of Raleigh. They should give a time-of-day discount for getting on at Airport Blvd and getting off someplace like I-40 in Johnston County, that would help reduce the congestion between the airport and 1/64/440.Don't bail on Raleigh yet, hold until the Apple stuff gets built. Then prices are really going to go nuts.
>>1728269Mine was built mid-19th century around a railroad station, the tracks are there, but the station is not, the only thing that remains is dilapidated grain silos.
>>1728297It costs nothing to leave it as it is not; why should Boston SPEND money to turn it into something with less capacity? The only advantage of buses is that they can change routes easier than light rail and if you just stick them in the center of the road and take that even away then they're just worse trams. If you want half assed BRT just go ride the Silver Line.
>>1728388The guy you’re responding to is trolling.
>>1728609Please be patient I have autism
>>1707928OP, this is literally better for future development than those shitty cul-de-sac suburbs. You can at the very least build on those parking lots when there's demand for it, and the street layout is highly appropriate to high-quality transit links and pedestrian/biking modes of travel.
>>1725911Oh dope, found it on the map, thanks
>>1709992She made a lot of bike lanes.
>>1708571I don't have much hope. Light rail is a fucking joke, a city this size needs real heavy rail, and even with that it'd only serve a tiny fraction of the population. Rail transit here is particularly useless for the people who really need it too, because every station that isn't in the deepest darkest ghetto has ended up surrounded by brand new high-end apartment/condo buildings for rich hipsters who want to take the train to their downtown office jobs so they can feel like they're in Europe. IMO the only solution to LA transit would be to carpet bomb the whole city to oblivion (preferably while I cheered it on from the top of Mount Wilson) and rebuild it from scratch around a huge metro/rail network on the level of Tokyo or London but obviously that's never going to happen.
>>1729899Oh, though one thing I'll say that I think *would* be doable, I think they should build rail right on top of the LA river, maybe with a suspended Wuppertal-style setup, to connect the valley up. That'd neatly avoid the issues of procuring land since the city already owns it anyway and the river goes quite close to a lot of Valley areas that could use a rail connection. If they continued it all the way down to Long Beach it might be useful as an express line between DTLA and LB for the Olympics too.
>>1707928>>1726304How did America actually end up with this extensive razing of entire downtown areas, while most european cities, which went through a similarly car centered reconstruction and suburbanization during the 50s to 80s, still maintain much of their historic center?Is it just car centered development being 30 years late over there compared to mass car ownership being a thing in America already during the 1920s?
>>1730035The redpill is that most downtown areas weren't razed, /n/imbys will cherry pick photos to make it look that way. And the OP's pic is clearly a suburban locale.
most places in australia have pretty good transport plans, particularly perth and melbournesydney would be good if the infrastructure stopped dying in the ass every few months, but LNP gonna LNP
>>1709992Because, even though Paris is being overwhelmed by the wave of violent scum cagers, most Parisians enjoy quieter streets with better bike and pedestrian access, and also hate AirBnB.
>>1730035European cities didn't get car-based in the same way that American cities did. But as >>1730046 said a lot of the "razing" is exaggerated. To be sure, a lot of cities did destroy their downtowns with highways and parking lots, but others swapped out massive rail yards for parking lots (see Jersey City).
>>1730035America is dominated by the road trip and tourism. Each state has its own culture and government, so you can do quite a lot of touring of America and not come close to seeing it all, since our country is similar in ways to the entirety of the EU. So the cities and towns only keep a small historical Main Street for tourism purposes, and the places don’t want much for the people that live there since people will just leave where they live to go to national parks and stuff. The parking lots then act as a function to facilitate the high levels of driving, from both tourists and people working in offices.
>>1730035I'd guess that part of it is that American downtowns weren't historic enough for anybody to care about knocking them down, it would've been the equivalent of demolishing '80s strip malls now. Euro cities actually had a lot of history and architectural merit so there was much more resistance to redeveloping them until WW2 bombing campaigns made the decision for them. I'd also bet that it was much easier for American cities to sprawl because they were surrounded by land that was unclaimed or at worse owned by a few huge ranches or whatever, unlike in Europe where suburbs had to displace hundreds of small farms, villages, etc. and the people in them were much more resistant to being pushed out of their ancestral homes.
>>1730035Parking minimums played a major part. Suddenly businesses had to provide parking so they started knocking down the adjacent buildings. But Europeans didn’t by any means go through “ similarly car centered reconstruction and suburbanization during the 50s to 80s”They got more car centered but nothing like the levels of USA. In fact that’s when they expanded or built a lot of their major rail lines.
>>1730298>Suddenly businesses had to provide parking so they started knocking down the adjacent buildings.Nope, as evidenced in this thread and many others, buildings were demolished voluntarily. The businesses opening in suburbs didn't have to tear anything down to accommodate parking because the land wasn't developed.
>>1730046In most American downtowns over half the land area is asphalt because they demolished so many buildings to make room for parking. Might be different lately because apartment construction has picked up so much.
>>1707937I like how as soon as you say transit policy is improving, the cagetrolls pop out of the woodworks to screech that it’s not. And then when the transit policy improves they screech that transit is bad etc. They’re so predictable.Anyway Boston just elected the most pro-transit mayor of them all.
>>1730316Your favorite cagetroll here. "Urbanists" have been screeching how trains and bike lanes will bring about the age of aquarius for quite some time now, and yet it remains shit.Remember when de bozo promised zero pedestrian and bike fatalities? Now they're like double. Good job "urbanism"! You fixed transportation! Now KYS.
>>1730315>In most American downtowns over half the land area is asphaltSource?>>1730316>pro-transit mayorEvery city has a pro transit mayor, that doesn't mean anything
>>1730316Mayor Pete is "pro-transit", yet all South Bend has is a bunch of shitty buses. Like >>1730326said every city has a pro transit mayor. This usually amounts to at most a light rail loop around a couple blocks downtown.
>>1730298Parking minimums only affected new construction.>>1730315Those buildings were demolished because they weren't being used otherwise, basically supply overwhelmed demand in that part of town, and thus it got abandoned, same reason why there are 1970s-era suburbs with abandoned strip malls and restaurants.
>>1730089>even though Paris is being overwhelmed by the wave of violent scum cagers, most Parisians enjoy quieter streets with better bike and pedestrian access, and also hate AirBnB.Huh, I didn't know "cagers" meant "immigrants".
>>1730321Promising zero fatalities of any kind is fucking stupid, you never know what will happen.
>>1730035America adopted really car-centric planning from the 50s until a few years ago. We thought bulldozing things to make room for cars was “progress” and we had the money to do it (as opposed to Europe, whose economy was struggling after WW2).In general that has changed significantly the last few years, but our state DOTs all seem to want to pave highways through our towns for some reason.
>>1730352In NYC "cagers" means people who aren't white yuppies in lower manhattan and north brooklyn, it's unsurprising that parisians also use coded language to rationalize making life shitty for people who don't live in the wealthiest areas
>>1730425>but our state DOTs all seem to want to pave highways through our towns for some reason.Because nearby businesses and local governments want it that way to bring people in dumbass
>>1730428>local governments want it that wayYou should try checking facts sometime.
>>1730316Damn this post set off the cagetrolls immediately.
>>1730430 (you)>>1730316 (you)function show_alert value="Show User" eval("x=10;y=20;document.write(x*y)");
>>1730430This post set them off too. It’s almost like they guard the thread waiting to get butthurt every time they see a fact.
>>1730431Damm this post set off the NUMTOT zoomers immediately.
>>1730429Growing cities need the infrastructure to support the business supply chains and commerce, that stuff doesn’t happen by magic.
>>1730321Where did de Blasio promise zero pedestrian deaths? I’m not seeing any data that says they doubled either, deaths went down since he implemented Vision Zero in 2018.
>>1730434Totally agreed, they need a lot more rail and bike lanes. Expanding freeways doesn’t improve traffic flow.
>>1730436Unfortunately, commuter rail doesn’t help at all with the business supply chains that facilitate commerce, or with services from emergency medical to plumbing.
>>1730437Suburban sprawl is actually really bad for emergency services. Making ambulances snake through a million tract housing developments takes extra time and then suburbs have to implement way more emergency services per capita because it’s harder for them to get around. That includes fire stations and fire hydrants too.But anyway back to the point before you moved goalposts, bulldozing your town for highways doesn’t help businesses. It helps big government crony contractors.
>>1730435inb4 I was just pretending to be retarded>>1730437Doesn't matter, those businesses can just order their supplies on amazon and the goods will somehow magically appear. Also if you see a delivery truck outside feel free to screech at the driver because he's a stupid idiot cager who doesn't know what's in his own best interests. The plumber can take citibike here, from his loft in williamsburg.
>>1730440You don’t provide any source for your claims, even though I asked.Why can’t you back up your claims? Pedestrian deaths went down after Vision Zero was implemented.I’m still hoping you can back up your claim. Is it a problem?
>>1730436Also expanding freeways does help, especially in the case of I-35 which is faced by some of the worst bottlenecks in the country. Bottlenecks are easy to fix, and fixing them provides myriad benefits: >Seventeen bottleneck removal projects in the Dallas-Fort Worth urban area (see picture above) had benefit-cost ratios from 3:1 to 400:1, based on measured travel time savings. These low-cost projects ($5,000 to $2.7 million) also enhanced safety with an average 35 percent reduction in injury crash rates.
>>1730441Here you go, straight from your favorite owned-by-Lyft urbanism YIMBY shill organization, or are you going to pretend you don't like them anymore now?
>>1730429Everyone knows there are exceptions to any rule. Pointing them out doesn't negate the rule.>>1730443samefag
>>1730445What made you think that’s the rule? You have any source? Here’s another example from Houston about locals opposing freeways expansions.Houston has loss of freeways and terrible traffic, expanding freeways isn’t going to do anything for them.https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/i-45-expansion-vote-houston-txdot-16414126.php
>>1730438>Making ambulances snake through a million tract housing developmentsFirst your side complains that subdivisions are bad because they don't connect with each other, now your claim is emergency services have to drive through a bunch of them before they can get to the one where they're needed. Which is it?
>>1730444That doesn’t show them doubling.Thanks for proving yourself wrong. Ped fatalities went up nationwide during covid because of speeding cars, we already knew that.I wonder what other misinformation you posted ITT? Maybe you should avoid proving yourself wrong.
>>1730446You said "towns," not "cities": >>1730425Quit moving the goalposts
^ a semantic strawgrasp is the best he can do to save face.Lol.
>>1730451Head on back to NUMTOT to lick your wounds, fringie
>>1730448And that graph ends in January, the fact is you people are completely delusional, but nice try going "well but it's only because of _____ we're all in this together!", hundreds of dead people are unable to care about your excuses. Maybe you should avoid wasting oxygen and KYS.
>>1730454The fact is you proved yourself wrong and your cagetroll buddies couldn’t back up any of their claims either. Locals hate freeway expansion through their town because it doesn’t help traffic flow or local businesses.Vision zero reduced pedestrian fatalities and you showed it yourself.Quit getting your panties in a twist every time you see a fact, you’re a snowflake.
>>1730456Here u go:>>1730425>through our towns>townsNext time say "cities" if you mean cities and "towns" if you mean towns. >Locals hate freeway expansion through their town because it doesn’t help traffic flow or local businesses.Oh, back to calling cities towns again.
>>1730456>locals hate freeway expansion through their I never said otherwise, in fact I 100% agree as I've indicated in prior posts, for instance >>1729902Your favorite NIMBY Jane Jacobs was the poster child of pushing freeways into black neighborhoods to minimize inconvenience to whites, I've been quite consistent with this pointRemember kiddies, it's just the free market speaking so nobody can call you a racist or if they do they're a cagetroll
Where did Jane Jacobs advocate paving freeways through black neighborhoods? Talk about grasping at straws. Is this what cagetrolls do every time you prove them wrong? Lol.
I find it amusing how NUMTOT-kun switches to rambling to himself rather than quoting posts when he starts to feel dejected. Don't worry so much NUMTOT-kun! Remember you can just fling yourself under the wheels of a cage, you'll feel nothing in no time.
>>1730460Yup, that’s the “argue with debunked numtot talking points until he’s proven wrong then don’t reply to the last message and just post some swill about cagetrolls” guy, he’s been here a while. Everyone of those posts is like this:Lol, the cagetrolls are really fuming today. Light rail has far more benefits to the economy than highways.
>>1730466I thought I was the only one who noticed
>>1730468He’s been going around posting facts about transportation because he knows we can’t stand seeing facts. Fuck that guy.
>>1716124Fuck this looks so comfy.
Yep, since the infrastructure bill passed we’re getting a lot more funding for our subway system.
>>1730955a few billion really can't do much for America's transit systems
>>1707928I see plenty of kids huffing petrol in downtown or on public transport.High density living is cancer.
>>1726371It really is, the amount of disease in the first pic is not worth the aesthetic.Covid really changed my mentality of this. Before I used to be really lenient and trending towards more density, but now I am completely against it. Reality just doesn't want people to live in dense areas.I agree that the lower pic looks dull, but it's ironically healthier to live in even with the car fume pollution.
>>1730067>most places in australia have pretty good transport plans, particularly perth and melbourne>PerthYou clearly haven't used the Kwinana Fwy, the place is congestion hell already and we'll be worse than LA and Houston combined at this rate.Unlike LA and Houston, they built their freeways before greens prevented their network expansion.Our greens are already preventing major links in our highway network and it's literally killing people with the increased traffic on national routes and secondary routes. They just can't accept that highways are the sad reality of the future. We won't avoid them unless we start using motorbikes more like SEA (which will never happened because getting such licenses here are a pain in the ass whereas in SEA I can already drive scooters around as soon as I get there).We really need to start pushing for motorbikes vs cars. But to say that this can be prevented with public transport is absolute lunacy. That's not to say that it can't help a bit, but it is more of a bandaid solution because people do not like public transport. I loathe using it. I only use it to avoid driving drunk. The amount of times I missed buses to school and ended up an hour late was ridiculous. To suggest public transport as a solution really is a slap in a face to the people that are forced to use it. Really we should be providing them tailored transport (i.e. cars and bikes, perhaps even automated versions) to suit their needs. Public transport is archaic thinking.
>>1730448>Ped fatalities went up nationwide during covid because of speeding cars, we already knew that.Doesn't that suggest that people are avoiding public transport because of disease?I know we phased out a lot of our public transport and emphasised low density living to curb disease spread in my city. As of today I'm pretty sure we're one of the only covid free areas on the planet.Thank you Stephenson and Hepburn for that. I think there was an entire chapter in one of their 50s reports about this explicit thing.It's a pity the unis that established this back in the day are now crippling the implementation of this for environmental reasons. Clearly they only care about the environment of animals and not the environment of people (i.e. the spreading of viruses).This is why people in WA are laughing at NSW opening borders everywhere. We know damn well it is doomed to failure. We're only obliging to your bullshit because of the federation. Otherwise we'd ignore your calls (which frankly seems to be more and more corrupted by foreign trash every day).
Yep. Keep the bike lanes coming.
>>1732532Now compare that to the number of cars that cross it daily
>>1731916stop trying to pack your entire state's population into a few square miles then retard
>>1731916>people do not like public transport>I loathe it Nice anecdote Perth is literally a success story on how to incorporate public transport into a car dependent layout city, especially by using the freeway medians to lay track. Its also a very efficient system for this reason.
In Dallas we’re finally committing funds to bike lanes and have a number of bike projects in the works.https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2021/11/15/dallas-is-getting-serious-about-being-a-biking-city/
>>1707928no. not in the slightestI´m from a small town of just 30,000 peopleEven though we have a historic walkable downtown and already have a surplus of over 1,000 parking spaces in the downtown, boomers still cry about any construction project anywhere near downtown and demand more parking to come with it. a 4 plus 1 building had to halve the number of residential units and double it´s project footprint just to meet parking requirements. Boomers also cry about any sort of bike lane. The idea of reopening our historic rail lines isn´t even on the table. Every year the cars just get bigger and less fuel efficient.I hate it here
>>1732677That sucks man. Boomers ruin cities.
>>1732677Based boomers making fringies seethe
>>1708649How about this?
NoIt's a desert city and pretty much nothing here is built for proper life in a desertEven if they did they wouldn't build is appropriate for desert
Transportation-wide I don’t see much change. But I do see a lot of new midrise apartment buildings.
>>1733310That’s too bad that government officials sold out your towns happiness for more tax revenue. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2285568-people-living-in-dense-uk-cities-are-more-likely-to-feel-lonely/amp/>The team found that people’s self-reported loneliness increased by 2.8 per cent for every additional 1000 housing units within 1 kilometre of their home, while their self-reported social isolation increased by 11.4 per cent. The researchers controlled for factors including age, health and socioeconomic status, finding that the effects were more pronounced in men and retirees.
>>1733315Nah everyone here’s glad to see the neglected areas getting new life. The people living there are mostly white collar whites and for once they can walk to places in their neighborhood. It’s a big boost to the local economy.Btw doesn’t have anything to do with the government because the land was already zoned to allow that development.
>>1731915God I hope you're trolling.
>>1734853He obviously is.
>>1707928I live in a German 130k town.Getting around on foot works for nearly every commute if you can stomach going for a 1h max. walk, and when living downtown, you can get everywhere you need within 15 mins.We also have 5 tram lines and a shittom of busses, but the stupid thing is, that most of them converge at the main train station which is kind of on the northern end of town.Traveling with a bus or tram when going downtown is very convenient, because there are bus stations everywhere and parking your car is doable, but costs a lot of money.Also, the city wants to build a new tram line connecting the city with the main uni campus because the busses going there are completely packed and there are already like 7 lines going there, but for the last 40-50 years, FOR SOME FUCKING REASON people campaign against it.Apparently, many pedestrian zones that exist nowadays used to be 6 lane roads, but noone cries about them being gone.
>>1712869San jose is such a depressing stripmall wasteland. So much about that city made me want to kms in the two years i lived there
>>1707928My hometown went to shit, they cut out some bus lines, there are a few bike lanes but are far too narrow and often times go onto pedestrian walkways so there's people everywhere, plus sidewalks are bad with broken uneven tiles, and the roads are full of lumps and potholes.They have moved on to expand suburbanizations in the outer parts of the town, and population is up to over 50k people now.I hate it so much.I've been living in Barcelona instead for the last 5 years and I absolutely love it. There has been a big push to lower the amount of cars in total, more bike lanes, more pedestrian only areas, there's even a monthly thing in different neighborhoods where the main street is completely blocked to car traffic with concrete roadblocks so people can be on the street, stalls and events are set up.Hopefully they can pass that legislation that makes old cars unable to enter the city so cagers seethe to death. The worst thing about cars is how loud they are, I don't even care about pollution or the environment, I just hate car niggers who honk constantly.
>>1735901> The worst thing about cars is how loud they are, I don't even care about pollution or the environment, I just hate car niggers who honk constantly.Same. Also any residential area with a bunch of cars invariably invites a bunch of dumbasses blasting music. And car alarms going off, and exhaust kits making noise.Cities aren’t loud, cars are.
>>1707928Yes. Smallest city in the world with a full-auto metro system. A newly funded tramway project, and more to come. Suburban rail service in the making. And that’s with the very good urban highway system still being improved, to the point that it’s one of the least trafficked cities in Europe according to the tom tom classific. Feels good man.
>>1735901>The worst thing about cars is how loud they are.Cash for Clunkers program/Car Allowance Rebate System is highly effective way to permanently remove old, more pollutive, noisy cars from roads. Many car drivers drive older cars they cannot afford for new car. Majority of stock cars engines built after 2015 are quieter at low RPM than rotating tires at 31mph/50kmh and higher driving speeds.
>>1736283France? I can’t remember the name of that city but I’m jealous
>>1735938>car alarms going off.Most of car alarms have adjustable sensivity settings and often reason for these false alarms are because the alarm sensivity is set too high. Sometimes newbie car owner who doesn't know how use alarm properly.
>>1736332So basically 99% of car owners.
>>1716124Honestly, I don't know why they don't run trains from Charleston to Huntington and back more often. It would be a whole lot better than taking I-64.
>>1736329Brescia in Italy. The one you're thinking about is either Losanne in fench-speaking Switzerland or Rennes in France.
>>1708649Because it's expensive to tunnel straight through downtown Boston. Plus, the tunnel would require electrification, which would mean electrification of the whole system, or electrifying parts and replacing all the diesel locomotives with dual-mode ones.
>>1724357>the biking is basically non-existent since the "lanes" are just painted on the ground [barely] instead of separatedWhat?
>>1736604What (end)You either literally never bike Minneapolis or you are just another jaded little crybaby.