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File: railfail.jpg (1.13 MB, 1284x1438)
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Is CAHSR even going to happen at this point?

> Newsom earlier this year requested $4.2 billion to keep work moving in the San Joaquin Valley. He hit a wall in the Legislature, where Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon and other Democrats have argued for directing the money to other urban transportation projects.

Seems reasonable to me desu.
>>
>>1706943
All projects in cali should be halted until the government evens out and isn't dominated by either crazy side.
>>
>>1706943
Money will certainly be spent, and maybe the segment in the Central Valley will be completed someday. But the whole project as proposed? Not a chance, the project will die a slow death by endless legal challenges and delays.
>>
Cancel that shit and divert the funding to the la metro
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>>1706943
It'll get """completed""" from Bakersfield or maybe Palmdale to Merced. Too bad, too - it was a good project, but at this point Californians deserve to suffer from crappy transportation fornelwctong and re-electing governments that managed to spend 80 billion dollars on halfway completing something a bunch of lazy Spaniards could've done for 10.
>>
All large-scale projects anywhere in the United States are in huge trouble at this point.

We can maintain what we have but it's basically impossible to push through any new, publicly funded megaprojects.

This will become more and more clear after the government finishes spending the infrastructure monies and people see that there is absolutely nothing to show for it.

Ex. in my city we have four bascule bridges. Two recently sold to private enterprise (one is getting fully replaced, the other retrofitted). Other two are owned by the state. The state wanted to replace one of them about five years ago at a cost of $50 million but it got pushed back because they didn't have the money. Total costs now likely much closer to $70 million.

I'm afraid that we are all totally fucked. The government absolutely does not have the capacity to effectively build new infrastructure in this day and age.
>>
>>1707031
Going more into this, if California ever wants to finish CAHSR, the whole project needs to be handed off to industry. It's going to cost $300-500 billion to finish the whole system at this point. If it takes more than 20 years to finish it that figure will be closer to one trillion dollars.
>>
>>1707031
The transcontinental railroad was built between 1863 and 1869. Six years, while fighting a civil war. The construction companies were paid $16,000 per mile on flat land, $32,000 per mile in foothills, and $48,000 per mile in mountains, which comes out to something under $1 million per mile when adjusting for inflation. Think we could do that today, now that we have track-laying machines, tunnel boring machines, bulldozers, etc. rather than picks and shovels and dynamite?

Feels bad, man.
>>
>>1706943
Let me translate that headline for you:
>This rail project, like all others across the US and most recently Hawaii were over budget before for first shovel broke dirt also, because supply chains are completely broken and materials backlogged for six months to two years and in addition to firing all of our blue collar construction workers because they are all anti-vax we now want more money (pref Federal (((grant))) money) so we can 'get the job done' in time and under budget.
>>
The Venezuela-ing of the US is continuing apace, I see. Good. Would've been a shame to die without getting to see it all come crashing down.
>>
>>1706991
America even out the crazies? God knows what that would take at this point.

>>1707038
not as long as people need to have pissing contests about how the money is spent and to where it's directed and why this person's freedoms are being denied. I don't know if I trust the public efforts to get anything done at this point. It's a fucking see-saw of hairline majorities pushing as much shit as they can before they lose control after a few years.
>>
the problem is capitalism, op. it is impossible to create great works under late-stage capitalism, which is currently engaged in stripping copper wiring from the walls to sell
>>
>>1707105
Idk anon, the chinks seem to have gotten better at ir after embracing capitalism
>>
>>1707254
*authoritarianism
>>
>>1707314
China has never in its history not been authoritarian.
>>
>>1707024
Metro already has a $100 BILLION bond measure to fund projects. They don't need it.
>>
>>1707036
Your numbers are so wildly implausible that they end up being just outright lies.
>>
>>1707488
>$100 BILLION
Enough to build a whole 10 miles of track in Cali lmao
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>>1707489
The price is already going to be around $100 billion, I think half a trillion is high but I could easily envision the project being closer to $200 billion
>>
>>1707488
give them more we dont need hsr
>>
>>1707784
You don't have the slightest understanding of the cost modelling. It hasn't gone up substantially in several years. They know what the ranges are on the remaining costs for the full phase 1. Almost all of the high variability shit has basically been sorted out.

Meanwhile, we know that adding equivalent capacity in the form of net new highway lanes, runways and airport gate capacity would cost more.
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>>1707830
Fuck off retard. It's along a top 3 most trafficked air route in the world.
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>>1707838
>They know what the ranges are on the remaining costs for the full phase 1
i.e. the easiest phase. Absolute cope.

>Meanwhile, we know that adding equivalent capacity in the form of net new highway lanes, runways and airport gate capacity would cost more.
You could add airport capacity and new lanes from both cities for less than what CAHSR will cost.
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>>1707838
The Big Dig cost 22 billion dollars in today's money. The original cost estimate was about 1/10th of that.

The original cost estimate of CAHSR was about 33 billion... you can see where it this is going.

I am posting this because it's not too late to pull out. California doesn't have to submit to the sunk costs fallacy.

Let's be conservative and say it'll cost $200 billion to finish. That's still $5000 from every man woman and child in California for one single project that something like less than 5% of the population will use with any degree of frequency.

Is it worth it?

I love trains btw. This is just stupid.
>>
>>1707871
>Let's be conservative and say it'll cost $200 billion to finish
How did you arrive at this figure? Because pulling it out of your ass because an unrelated construction project on the other side of the continent went over budget is, well, lol
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>>1707882
Do you have a better way to estimate the cost? The method they're using clearly isn't working.
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>>1707923
That doesn't answer my question. But, no, I'm not routinely put in charge of budgets for infrastructure megaprojects. Are you?
>>
>>1707927
Well the official estimate at the moment is still 100 billion which is $2500 from everyone in california
>>
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Why can't southern California just do HSR? No San Francisco, no Las Vegas connection.
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>>1707329
Are you reading directly off a Chinese government press release or are you allow to paraphrase?
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>>1707329
>>
two spidermen pointing at each other
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>>1706943
kek, the other day I watched this old movie about LA, 'Blue Thunder', 1983.

I think it's still on HBO Max right now.

The closing lines were a news broadcast playing in the background as it faded to the credits.

Literally the last thing they said "plans were announced today for a Japanese style high-speed train connecting to LA in the near future!"
>>
It's a retarded project anyways.
Spend all that money on local transit in metro LA, bay area, sac, etc.
Way more people commute within the metros than between them.
>>
>>1707839
Would rather have a line from the northwestern sfv down to orange County. Besides, that air corridor isn't ridden by poorfags - the people that would take the train
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>>1708256
Poorfags take Greyhound, anon. Even the Northeast Corridor in this country is decidedly not a poorfag mover.
>>
Don't think that if this gets cancelled other transport infrastructure gets built, it never works like that
>>
it should
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>>1708256
That already exists dumbass.
>>
>>1708017
>>1708019
Your reading comprehension is trash. Your position here is that China is not authoritarian and never has been.
>>
>>1707845
Both of these points you've made are flat out factually wrong you fucking inbred.
>>
>>1707871
You are literally making shit up with zero methodology or evidence. Go die in a corner somewhere.
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>>1708373
dumb slut
>>
/n/ - autistic screeching
>>
>>1708469
seethe liberal. brightline and texas central will be completed far sooner than your overpriced shitty "high speed" rail
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>>1707053
>over budget before for first shovel broke dirt also, because
what did he mean by this
>>
>>1708377
>>1707882
Phase 1 alone is going to cost about $100 billion by the time it's finished. This is a number that I'm not pulling out of my ass. Phase 1 is known to be the cheapest portion to build. You do the math. It's easily going to cost $200 billion at this point. Likely much more than that since most of this shit isn't going to be ready before 10+ years, and that's if everyone is on board and construction started yesterday (in reality, people are starting to get buyer's remorse because of the massive cost overruns). Inflation is going to push the cost much closer towards the $500 billion mark before all is said and done (if funding goes through).

Thanking the flying spaghetti monster that my state doesn't have a trillion dollar train only for millionaires paid for by the poor. It's honestly really embarrassing that anyone would defend this cashgrab at this point.
>>
Ah, I'm just concerned that this is going to become some insane PUBLIC TRANSPORT NEVER WORKS neolib totem. instead of a 'they will be singing songs in Valhalla about the mismanagement of this project' thing
>>
well that and wealthy landowners with cartoon $$ ka-ching signs in their eyes, but
>>
>>1708551
>a trillion dollar train only for millionaires paid for by the poor
>>1708256
>that air corridor isn't ridden by poorfags - the people that would take the train
the duality of the cagie
>>
>>1708376
It's true; the brunt of the work (urban ROW and tunnels) hasn't even started. Adding freeway lanes and terminals, while expensive, would not be as expensive as CAHSR is... now. Who knows what the final price will be. Shill all you want, but it's true.
>>
>>1706943
It was obvious years ago that it would never be completed. It's just a scheme to funnel taxpayer money into the pockets of politician, bureaucrats and contractors.
>>
Why the fuck can't developed countries build infrastructure anymore? It's getting embarrassing...
>>
>>1708577
It's not funded by taxes. It's funded by bonds. Do you not know the difference?
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>>1708575
Listen, you insufferable fucking illiterate faggot. You are lying. There have been multiple third party studies, reports, and estimates saying you're wrong. There hasn't been a single.one agreeing with your (wrong) position.

Serious, just fucking kill yourself. Literally and immediately.
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>>1708470
Hahahahahah. Texas Central doesn't have any construction permits, they don't have the land they need for the line or stations, and they don't even have final approvals. Get fucking real, clown.
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>>1708551
So your response to it being accurately pointed out that you're making shit up is to... make up even more shit.
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>>1708689
Neither does CAHSR kek
>inb4 we only wanted to go to Bakersfield anyway
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>>1708688
>>1708689
>>1708690
Given how mad you are I'm even more sure I'm correct.
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>>1708688
>>1708794
Not sure why dudes like this get so mad so easily. $200+ billion for CAHSR is looking highly likely at this stage. Just admitting it is throwing several posters into an uncontrolled mouth frothing rage.
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>>1708654
they can, the US can't, germany, france, hell even england seem to be able to better than the US. and this is ignoring china who gets it done insanely fast.
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>>1709086
>>1708654
Spain builds HSR for cheaper than the chinks
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>>1709086
Chinese HSR is just a red herring for their highway system.
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>>1708687
If you look on the ballot for anything listed as a "bond measure" it says it will result in the raising of taxes.
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>>1707030
Surely Palmdale is the minimum to count as """completed""", since it would then link up to metrolink ROW. It would be possible to tow the EMU train from Merced to Emeryville and from Palmdale to LA.
>>
This laughable shit does more to damage the future of transit in the US than any budget slashing Republican could dream of.
>>
>>1707031
Haha I am feeling the demoralize after I have reading this post! I guess what they say is true? China is #1? I wish I was born as a handsome Chinese instead of amerogoblin who cannot build belt and road
>>
>>1709770
You are stupid! I am not a Chinese even though I am respectful of their brilliance! You are a Jew.
>>
>>1707838
>He doesn't know about political embezzlement
NOT GOING TO MAKE IT
>>
>2088
>CAHSR finally completed between San Francisco and Los Angeles.
>2089
>X Æ A-Xii unveils the new Tesla Teleporter. Instant travel anywhere on Earth for pennies.
>>
>>1709875
>2025
>instant teleportation is a banner feature of iOS 21 (selected iPhone models only)
nothing personnel
>>
>>1707031
It does have the capacity in theory, just not the political will. If congress neglected something that consumed lots of money (lets say hypothetically cut funding to the military or cut spending in other sectors overall) then it would have the money to build megaprojects. The biggest issue is that the national budget of the united states government is controlled by the legislative branch (which is not subject to regular change like the executive branch) and so often struggles to do anything because of how politically divided america is. The the only power the executive branch has over this budget is making suggestions and being the one to use said money in whatever way congress chooses.
Megaprojects are largely used to gain popular support or international clout (by 1 upping other countries) but since people in congress have mostly uncompetitive or "safe" elections there is no need to appease the wider populace and the USA has no need for international clout as it is the worlds strongest superpower.
sorry for getting political anons i cant help it
>>
>>1707023
why not give the california or federal government the right to seize land? that's how france managed to build its own HSR. Sure it might be unethical and people don't like excuses that include the "greater good"
>>1707254
anon, am not agreeing with what the other anon said but the chinese have a mixed economy where government and private enterprise compete (with the state funded companies often getting unfair advantages)
this gives china the economic prosperity of a capitalistic nation but also allows the government to continually have a high degree of control over the economy. This means the chinese economy operates differently from most western nations and therefore by combining the loads of cash from taxes and strong governance it can build megaprojects at a lower cost than say the USA, France, Japan, etc.
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>>1712835
Not even one mention of out-of-control costs caused by ineptitude, grift, and corruption.

Federal budgeting isn't an either-or decision. Cutting the military budget doesn't mean we get huge transportation projects instead.
>>
>>1709804
calm your tits anon, its clear that we are all politically biased but thats probably not very polite of you
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>>1712838
i wanted to mention corruption but that seemed a bit too biased :c sorry anon
and yes you are right about the federal budget but cutting spending to the military would most likely relocate some funds to federally financed infrastructure projects.
>>
>>1706943
Remember when California rejected SNCF's offer to build the CAHSR for $38B and absorb any cost overruns themselves?

That's when I realized this is just a giant grift for the entire political and bureaucratic class to empty the public coffers into their pockets.
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>>1712845
I remember the card they pulled at that time.

>SNCF sent jews to auschwitz!

i was so baffled by the stupidity of this charade.
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>>1709815
Maybe stop ranting in vague generalities without a single iota of citation or evidence to support anything you're claiming.
>>
>>1709169
That's literally false, but keep rambling nonsensically.
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>>1709086
Again, cite your fucking sources. Which, just to be clear you can't, because they don't exist.
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>>1708794
>I literally refuse to provide any evidence
>I admit I don't have any
>I still think I'm right
This makes you extremely unintelligent.
>>
>>1708765
Literally what? It's been under construction for years and more segments have been given approvals. Why lie about something you can lookup in less than 10 seconds?
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>>1712883
Then it's settled. Everyone you replied to is correct.
>>
You know, reading how mismanaged US railroad system is makes me feel surprisingly good about my own rail.
And I'm from Poland, where thanks to American ingenuity, advisors and help, we stripped off 20% of the entire rail system between 1989 and 2014, because "rail is the past and people can buy cars now". Yet despite that, we are nowhere near this impotent level of disfunctionality, even if being the pick-up kid of EU in terms of "shittiest rail service ever"





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