Another one bites the dust. I wonder how long until car companies just stop making new ICE models. They’ll probably keep the old platform for regions where ICE is allowed but it won’t be worth doing any R&D on them.
>gay country does gay thingHave they ever considered that instead of trying to use legal force to coerce people to buy an objectively inferior product they could just design an electric car that was financially and practically superior to gas cars and then people would buy them of their own free will?
>>1676005Consumer choice and real innovation are outdated concepts, anon
>>1676005>an electric car that was financially and practically superior to gas carsthat already existswhat's lacking is the infrastructure to support itpeople don't buy electric cars because there aren't enough charging stationsthere aren't enough charging stations because people don't buy enough electric carssee the problem?
>>1675996I can't wait for ICE cars to be completely dead and banned, and they can never erode car infrastructure in the name of environmentalism, and the planet is better for it. that's a win-win.
>>1676035>that already existsSo there are EVs that can recharge in 5 minutes now? When did this happen?>see the problem?You mean the exact same problem early gas cars overcame without any oppressive government regulation to ban alternatives like horse drawn carriages or bicycles needed?
>>1676036Ah yes heres 1000 pounds of your environmentalism bro
>>1676042When is the last time you could fill up your gas tank at home faggot?
>>1676181Never. And - like the majority of the world - buying a Tesla wouldn't change that for me. So unless Biden/Trudeau/Merkel's going to wave their magic wand and give hundreds of millions of people free garages that are wired for this shit in the next few years, future people are going to be spending a fuckton of their daily lives sitting in massive lines for chargers, and then sitting at the charger twiddling their thumbs watching a progress bar slowly fill up.But then making driving as miserable and unviable as possible is the real end goal, isn't it?
>>1676188Literally hundreds of thousands of public chargers are actively being deployed you dumb fucking nigger. You're a reality denialist and should Stan yourself in the throat.
>>1676189So the line to sit and stare at the progress bar will only be 2 hours instead of 8? I retract everything.
>>1676189Nowhere near enough if everyone drives an EV. It won't work unless people can recharge their vehicles overnight.
>>1676189Cagetrolls are only here to spread misinformation.
>>1676189I've been working on ev adoption since the 90s. Residential charging is still a huge problem. People in multi unit dwellings and older single family/duplex neighborhoods don't have easy access. You want them to be plugged in at home for most of their charging. Public charging is really only for long distance drives. The 240v ac charging in urban areas is frankly obsolete. Yeah it gets you that odd LEAF or Volt. But teslas and other 200-300 mile cars don't get much benefit. Using a high voltage dc charger for most charging is bad for your battery. Plus it limits access to higher priority users. Which is why tesla made changes to duscourage people from using super chargers near their home and office.
>>1676290Good thing they’re building hundreds of thousands of charging stations right now, as pointed out in the post you replied to..
>>1676290Why not just carry a small generator with you?
>>167609312 congolese childrens died for this
>>1676456Why not buy a hybrid at that point?
>>1676456No joke, I came across a 1st gen nissan leaf that was making very diesely noises and I could smell diesel. Someone was carrying a generator around in the boot that was charging the car.
>>1676457That just makes me like EVs even more...
>>1675996> muh electric carsBattery-powered EVs are meme and they aren't suitable for any other environment than sharturbia, with ridiculous amount of investments to upgrade power grid and install chargers.But sharturbia itself is a shit and must be avoided at any cost.
>>1676358But they're not building them where people live. So you still can't charge parked in front of your Harlem brownstone or San Francisco painted lady.
>>1676457Tesla went to cobalt free batteries.Nimby environmentalists would also prevent domestic cobalt producers.
>>1675996werent gas cars supposed to be banned in every 1st world country by now? theyve been making headlines like this for decades and it always its pushed back because it isnt feasible. in 5 years the issue will be rolling blackouts due to overloading the power grid or some shit
>>1676578It's never going to happen. Not until there is a $15,000 ev shitbox that goes 350 miles.
>>1676571>with ridiculous amount of investments to upgrade power grid and install chargers.power grid's been neglected for a minute anyway, this is a perfect excuse to fund long needed upgrades.
>>1676578>in 5 yearsin 5 years everything will have gone to such absolute shit that people won't care about electricity or cars, or even remember what they were.
>>1675996Nice. Now ban electric ones too.
>>1675996I hate Commies.I hate leafs.Commie leafs shouldn't be considered human beings.
>>1676189I just love that most of the power being generated for these "green" cars come from burning coal. Got to love it. God bless coal miners.
>>1676035Theirs enough charging stations in the UK now, just nobody wants to wait 1 hour every time they need to recharge
>>1676457good, fuck those niggers
>>1676679It doesn't, and even if it did it would still be cleaner than a diesel car because power plants have strict regulations on emissions and industrial filtering equipment.
>>1675996>They’ll probably keep the old platform for regions where ICE is allowed but it won’t be worth doing any R&D on them.Enthusiast cars and fun economy cars peaked in the 90s anyway. It's mostly been safety standards (weight, prohibitive designs) that have put the nail in the coffin for them. The era had already ended. AND there's still enough of a holdover for you to appreciate it now, rather than whinging about the future, enjoy the present.
>>1676606Unfortunately because of the renewable lobby's success, any money that goes towards improving the grid goes to hideously expensive enviromeme shit like wind and solar that isn't able to adequately improve base load, while nuclear capacity isn't being expanded. Meanwhile, coal usage is being aggressively curtailed and natural gas hasn't quite taken up the slack. This is why the California and Texas grids are a mess. >>1676803Yeah, every time I go out, I see empty charging stations all over the fucking place. Nobody aside from smug yuppies wants EVs. I expect most of the goverments who are demanding everything be electric by 2030 or 2035 to walk that shit back in a year or two as car companies lose billions on EV development and come begging for handouts. It would be nice if we could have smarter city design, less reliance on packaged goods delivered to people via globalized logistics chains, and other such things, but people don't want that either. Ultimately the only good solution might just be to euthanize or sterilize 95% of the population.
It's just a contradiction how cars are these soulful objects which people enthuse about, but some of those same people need traditional ICE cars to also be universally available appliances which society revolves around. Why does your passion need to be like that?
>>1676812>power plants have strict regulations on emissionsand... cars don't? tapwater IQ (in C) take.
>>1676821Mass market shitboxes fund the development of what few interesting affordable cars are left. For instance, the success of the Porsche Macan, Cayenne, and Panamera make the 911, Boxster, and Cayman possible at "affordable" prices. The BRZ/86 can only exist because of everything else that Subaru and Toyota make. The ND MIata only happened because of Mazda striking gold with the CX-5 and a co-development agreement with Fiat.
>>1676827that's a good point but is it really how people like that think
>>1676812Man, I just 4chan during the summer. How much longer until you go back to school, kiddo?
>>1676824He’s right, power plants emit less per joule than cars. Dunno why that makes you so butthurt.
>>1676821Cars aren’t really about independence. They require a whole society to bend over backwards to accommodate them.
>>1676898Public transit is even less independent, and requires cities to bulldoze city centers and build dense housing to actually get people to use it. Two sides of the same coin, really.
>>1676900Incredible amounts of doublespeak and delusion in this post.
>Places outside of the cities in Alberta, BC, Saskatchewan and the territories adopting all-electric with no push backWhy is Trudeau such a faggot
>>1676898Incredible amounts of doublespeak and delusion in this post.
>>1675996It's good thing it says gas powered and not diesel powered.For a second I thought they were going to starve the Albertans to death via Holomor
>>1676900>Busses require bulldozing city centers>Parking lots and garages and oversized roads dont
>>1676900>and requires cities to bulldoze city centers and build dense housing to actually get people to use itProvide an example, shart.
>>1676005Or improve ICEs for higher environmental requirements without obeying the stupid ideas of the Tutsis?Or create many types of purely electric propulsion, hybrids and engines for different markets, uses, preferences and price ranges?
>>1676901>fixed routes>independenceLe mao
>>1676957> breedom to drive between sharturban cattle sheds
>>1676958It's not my fault your roads are shit
>>1676959> changing the topiclmao at cope
>>1676961No, noIt's literally the topicIt's not my fault your american roads are shit
>>1676820Nigger what? Wind and solar are both cheaper than building new fossil fuel plants.
>>1676820No retard, the Texas grid is a mess because it's not winterized or connected to the wider grid. California's grid is far more stable and even in the face of catastrophic fires performed far better than Texas' grid -- a MUCH smaller number of people lost power and for far less time. Read a fucking book son.
>>1676820It's wild how literally everything you said is wrong.
>>1676572This is completely wrong, which isn't surprising given the fact that you can't grasp basic reality. There are going to be far more public charge points than gas pumps, and the gap isn't going to be small. And that doesn't even count residential or other private charging.
>>1676201That's the idea you fucking retard. And it ends up being a lot more charge points per person than there are gas pumps per person.
>>1676898Roads existed before cars. The only bending over. Is pedestrians and cyclists can't just wonder through the street anymore.
>>1677003>building heavily-subsidized capacity is cheaper than non-subsidizedwho knew? Once the US Production Tax Credit sunsets, new wind power production will fall off a cliff. Same thing goes with the ITC with respect to solar. >>1677006>rolling blackouts even when no disaster is occuring>stableogey. As for Texas, they knew they needed to winterize decades ago, but because their grid depends on natural gas, the money has never been there for that project. Maybe you oughta do some reading yourself, pops.>>1677007Great proof you have there.
>>1676457can we double that number?
>>1677015Even before cars pedestrians were getting smooshed by carts, horses, etc. All of this shit has been a problem since cities became a thing.
>>1677003>Wind and solar are both cheaper than building new fossil fuel plants.> I don't know what availability factor and total cost of ownership are.
>>1676812>power plants have strict regulations on emissions and industrial filtering equipmentlmao
>>1676819>Enthusiast cars and fun economy cars peaked in the 90sthistime to preserve these before it's too late
>>1677006>because it's not winterizedBecause it almost never freezes here. Yeah it sucked this winter, but can't blame them for not bothering to put heaters in when half the state never really gets more than a degree or two below freezing. That's like blaming Canadians for not having air conditioning
>>1676005mate, i have news for you. Whatever you do ICE engines are shit compared to electric drive. Remember you throw away 50% of your gas money to heat your tires.
>>1676820wow, how can somebody be this wrong and sound so confident.
>>1677087>heat your tires?
Banning ICEs isn't to get people to use EVs, it's to get people to abandon individual transport and rely on the state for their movement.>Retards getting hooked into letting their freedoms be violated (in this case, movement, privacy, association) by this like americans did with "MUH TERRORISTS" and the PATRIOT ActMost companies aren't going to shove chargers in every parking space and the ones that DO will pass the cost onto the consumer and then some. Public charging spaces will be paid for by the state and then taxes levied harder to keep that massive amount of consant cashflow into the money supply from causing inflation. You will have less movement freedom, less of a percentage of your paycheck, and you will sit there wondering why life is shit.
>>1677103mate, can you calm down for a second. The focus on individual transport ruined cities for a long time. Roads are ugly, expensive, produce shit particles which make any building next to it look like shit in 10 years, make cities unbearably hot in summers and are horribly inefficient.Dont fool yourself that you are living in china just because somebody suggests that ice cars are shit. You do realise that chargers cost next to nothing. They are easily integrated into existing infrastructure and can be integrated into normal housing.There are multiple logical reasons to abbandon the car in urban areas. Stop making everything into some bullshit political argument.
>>1677082hes right you know. The efficency of power plants are giant compared to small combustion engines.
>>1677015are you mental?are you comparing roman streets to 8 lane massive highways slicing into cities?i wonder if it is difficult to live being this retarded.
>>1677121Boulevards existed before cars
>>1677149are you comparing a fucking street made to show off to a 8 lane highway. There were very few boulevards made. They were not intended to be a form of transport. They where made to show off. Often decorated to a large extend and were used for parades or other events.
>>1677155>not intended to be a form of transportRoman roads
>>1677103ICE has the same problem. Without state support the supply of guzzoline would dry up in days. The only transport that gives you real freedom of movement is entirely human or animal powered.
>>1677011>>1677013No fucking shit there will be more charging stations. They still won't solve anything. I can "charge" 1000 miles into my diesel car in under 5 minutes at the pump. You'll need a lot more charging station when your ranges are lower and the time to charge a lot longer.And the public charging stations won't help the people that don't have access to a charger at their home. Who the fuck wants to wait hours for their car to just charge. EVs are a neat invention but they're not a silver bullet. ICE is better on long journeys. ICE is better if you live in the city and don't have a parking space where you can charge your car. EVs are great for the suburbian commuters who can charge their cars at home every night.
>>1677087>>1677097You should consider learning to drive. You shouldn't be constantly braking. Economic driving will help you with EVs just like it does with ICE cars.
>>1677203I keep my brake pressed all the time with my left foot and hit the gas with my right foot. I'm a bus driver btw
>>1676812>His state doesn't have plant derived ethanol minimums for gasohol or diesel blends>He's not aware that biofuel technologies are making economically competitive biodiesel a real thingMan you clearly are missing out on any environmental data. Also of note, even if you supply all energy on your EV from green sources, over the lifespan of an EV it still is more taxing on the environment than traditional fossil fuel transportation.>>1676679This is far more concerning than transportation carbon emissions; the majority of greenhouse gasses come from either power generation or heating residences.
>>1677199Unreal that you just insist on being willfully ignorant as fuck and just straight up lying.
>>1677085Motherfucker, Texas' own regulators have recommended for 20 years that the state winterize the grid.
>>1677085Lots of Canadians have air conditioning. It gets warm and humid as fuck up there in the summer.
>>1677038What the absolute fuck are you talking about? The state was on fucking fire, the most acreage in recorded history. That's a disaster you inbred fucking mongoloid.And you continue to prove your irredeemable stupity by pretending that coal, gas, and oil don't receive massive subsidies and tax breaks.
>>1677281>Also of note, even if you supply all energy on your EV from green sources, over the lifespan of an EV it still is more taxing on the environment than traditional fossil fuel transportation.This is absolutely, and unequivocally false. Why do you believe this?
>>1677327Simmer down, you seething Cuckafornian tranny. The blackouts didn't have anything to do with the fires and everything to fo with a fucked grid: https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2020-10-06/california-rolling-blackouts-climate-change-poor-planningI never said that the government doesn't subsidize fossil. But the subsidies are much smaller than for wind and solar per exajoule, and possibly less in total dollars, period. This article goes over it a bit https://thebreakthrough.org/issues/energy/fossil-fuel-subsidies>>1677326LCOE on renewables depends heavily on location, and is more of an estimate than anything else. Wind might cost around the same as natural gas, but as a variable power generation tech it's inferior to baseload. https://www.factcheck.org/2019/07/does-wind-work-without-subsidies/Anyway, I know that you and other EV lovers are desperate to suck big daddy Elon off, but cars are shit no matter what they're powered by, and EV is useless for the worst offenders that burn diesel and bunker fuel. Fucking around with EV and shit like wind is shuffling deck chairs while the ship sinks. Reducing dependence on those vehicles and lowering energy consumption is a better goal that was starting to see some progress before everyone got driven screaming from the cities last year.
>>1677322Where's the lie? Or ignorance?
>>1677197You're only half-right. While the infrastructure for fuel is still required, dedicated companies handle and maintain this. It also doesn't take hours to refuel.For EVs, almost every parking space has to have it set up, which is a LOT of expense of materials, maintenance, and potential problems. Anyone without a dedicated garage or who uses their garage for other purposes will need to charge their car anywhere they can, keeping it "topped off." While you're at work, you keep your car charging. While you're in a store, plug it in. This shit is also not simple technology, adding more strain on the need for techs.>>1677114>The focus on individual transport ruined cities for a long timeIndividual transport is essential. If you cannot voluntarily LEAVE the city whenever you damn well please, then the city is acting as a prison.>They are easily integrated into existing infrastructure and can be integrated into normal housing.It really isn't. Self-serve checkout, POS devices, and other tech is already finicky and breaks down a lot. Cities can't be assed to fill potholes or repaint worn-away markers. I've heard of problems with solar panel installations when towns chinked out on them with the cheapest contractors and they ended up needing replacing within 1 winter.If you instead place the burden onto businesses, and the business folds, now the chargers are out of order. If you put the responsibility onto real estate companies then you start fucking with the whole economy. Not to mention that placing this as a requirement would just kill off lots of smaller businesses who can't afford the overhead, and prevent new ones from starting up.Make it pay-per-charge? Great! You now have countless easily-hacked devices that take credit card info pebbled all over!Not to mention even ones that are """Free""" would be massive fire hazards if they failed in the wrong way, or somehow had faults and broke the ground connection.
>>1678354Faults never happen in the mind of these cultistsThis situation is impossible in their mind>plug the car in the garage>grid overloads for some reason and your breaker trips>wake up next morning to barely any charge
>>1678373>>grid overloads for some reason and your breaker tripswtf do you live that this happens?Besides, you build a seperate smart grid for charging at scale.
>>1678382Thanks for being a prime example
>>1675996>champagne socialists dictate everyone must purchase a new automobile or get used to walkingRemember: if you are in a city bigger than 100K, you need to move out of it immediately. It is a prison. They are building the walls around it as we speak. They don't want you to be able to live or travel outside of their control. Escape now while the door is open
>>1676035>charging stationsNo, it's about HOMES. You(and the US) have let China buy up all your real estate, and flooded yourselves with migrants, destroying the prospect of home ownership for the vast majority of people. People would just charge their cars at home and stations would only be needed for long distance travel.But no, you cucked your economy through self-genocidal liberal policies, so that's not possible.
>>1678382>power outages literally NEVER happen!A champagne socialist who is actually a poor person drinking Pabst and smugly LARPing
>>1678400Who are you quoting? Nothing about the OP dictates everyone must purchase a new car. In fact it’d be better if people didn’t.Maybe you quoted the wrong post? Or you’re just deliberately disingenuous.
>>1678404I've never had a power outage that's lasted more than about 10 seconds. When I lived in the sticks we had a power outage that lasted 2 hours like one time in a decade when a line fell over.
>>1676188ofc the only good environmental source of transport is public transport. Cars are bad for the environment because they aren't efficient. If a bus has 2x the mileage of a pickup but 4* the seating capacity then we should only use buses instead of hordes of cars with some seating only one person!
>>1678562But a car will go to wherever you want, whenever you want.
>>1675996>replace combustion cage with electric cageSure this will make the suburbian north american model sustainable! Just caging everywhere with a silent eco-friendly cage on a brand new 10 lanes highway, surely this is will be truly sustainable
>>1678403Crazy how everything your Fox News rotted brain believes is just false.
>>1677351Lying about the waits when there are far more recharge points per Capita. Lying about how and where charging is done. Lying about the cost. Lying about well-documented real world driving patterns. And the list goes on.
>>1677342They aren't mutually exclusive you fucking moron. Even if the US had the same percentage of trips taken by rail as Japan (which is the highest in the world), there would still be a fuckton if driving occuring. But being the shitstain you are, your position is that it's dumb to convert all those remaining vehicle trips into much more energy efficient and less polluting ones.
>>1675996>salesdon't care, my car is going to last a good 20+ years if taken care of.
>>1678586Where are you going to charge your car if you're a citycuck and all you have is curbside parking? Even if there are a lot more charging points you still end up with bottlenecks. Gas stations already start forming queues when a lot of people are traveling along the same route. For example holiday season. This will be a lot worse with EVs because they need charging more often and it takes longer. Also it doesn't help if the entire country is shot full of charging stations if there aren't enough at the places people want to stop during their journeys. And there won't be. No one wants to stop at some dodgy 7/11 to charge their car for half hour to hour. Even more so people don't want to drive off their course to charge their car. They want to stop at that large roadside gas station that has bunch of restaurants and shit. Those parking spaces are crowded as fuck, now imagine all those cars are EVs and need charging. You still claiming there won't be queues? Hell whenever I stop at a large gas station alongside a major highway I see EVs lining up to charge. And that's with just a few EVs on the road.
>>1678739If you're in a city you don't need to charge as much as a suburbcuck who has to use a car for every single trip.Also desu I live in a nice building with charging stations in the parking deck. And your worst-case scenario only happens for some gas stations on a few rare moments out of the year. The problem with your line of thinking is that it's impractical for people the other 99.99% of the year. It's like mandating parking minimums for every store in town because of Black Friday. It's stupid and counterproductive.
>>1678948>tring to cover this constant demand is the same as trying to cover this other puntual demandRetard
>>1678955But the demand's not constant; you just made it up. Like everything else in your posts.
>>1678956Go outside and take a lookI guarantee you that gas stations will have at least one car filling up every 5 minutes
>>1678948>>1678956Have you ever traveled on highways? The gas stations that are next to them have often almost constant stream of cars filling up. You usually don't have to wait for more than a minute or two outside of peak days. But those same cars being there for charging would mean massive lines.
>>1678400It would be pretty based and comfy is cities had walls again.
>>1676679That coal literally shut down. Pretty much all coal plants are uneconomical to even keep running and now renewable are just as cost effective as natural gas
>>1679008You can build way more charging ports at a stop than pumps at a gas stations. A gas has what 6-8 pumps usually?
>>1678627Good luck when the carbon tax hits $150/per tonne
>>1676678i wish we were "commies"
>>1678739You are painfully fucking stupid and are refusing to grasp the basic concepts that have been explicitly and repeatedly laid out for you him this thread.
An EV is the same size as an ICE car. You don't magically fit 16 EV in the same lot space as 8 gas pump spaces. Having 1000s of charging pods doesn't change the fact you need 1000s of parking spaces for those pods.How long it takes to fill an ICE fuel tank? 5 minutes for the FULL travel range? How long it takes an EV to charge its FULL travel range? 30 minutes with a 150kW charging port. Are all those "thousands" of charging ports also 150kW? Even if you don't charge the EV to full capacity, you still have to spend a cumulative 30 minutes in your range's trip at different power ports. You need a home charging port to fully charge the EV on time you aren't wasting somewhere you don't need to be.Imagine 1000s of 150kW charging ports being built. Imagine all of them in use. Do you fucks have any idea how much of a draw on the electric grid that is? Just 1000 ports at 150kW is 150MW of power!
>>1677103>Banning ICEs isn't to get people to use EVs, it's to get people to abandon individual transportgood
>>1675996>2nd largest country in the world>low population density, huge open spaces between major cities>regularly get -40 temps in the winter>can only buy electric sedans lmaoTrudeau needs to be minecrafted.
>>1680185Let them soil the name of the memeVsThe quicker the world realizes it's a terrible idea, the better
>>1678403Based>>1678585List a single thing that was inaccurate chang, go back to your hive
>>1676667this>>1676673also thisEVs are not a solution, they only exacerbate the problem. We don't want to make driving easier, we want to make it harder ffs.
>>1680257>we want to make it harder ffs.Yuropoor hands typed this.
>>1680391Lol no they didn'tIt's already pretty shit to take your car into the cities here
>>1676005We can start by making ICE owners pay for externalities since ICE advocates always whine about the externalities of batteries
>>1680451How do you calculate in dollars the negative externalities created by ICE owners? It's a ridiculous idea.
>>1680451>we have to save the environment>no not that environmentGet fucked hypocrite piece of shit
>>1680451Lol, good idea.I actually like EVs even if they didn’t pollute less because they mean less money for oil companies.
>>1680547>whatever local effects of battery production are equivalent to the global effects of carbon dioxide emissions.
>>1680646>global effects of carbon dioxide emissions.Ie. not much. Get fucked, hippie.
>>1680646>permadead nature vs more algaeI'll take the algae thank you
>>1676819I will never buy another car if anything happens to my current car. An inherited integra. I have absolutely no interest in any current cars and probably never will as they will continue to be bloated ugly heavy and silent. I could care less about Gas cars disappearing, they are all shit anyway.
>>1680232Why haven't you killed yourself yet?
>>1679957Do you have any idea how much energy is expended drilling for, refining, and transporting oil and gasoline?
>>1676093unironically less better than burning gasoline, we should be moving away from gas in general, more to electric trains, buses, and electric bikes
>>1676956>Or improve ICEs for higher environmental requirementslike what? put a carbon scrubber on every car
>>1676005Yeah sure, just let market forces to design transport networks and infrastructure. That's worked so far right? Being barely a step ahead at any time?
>>1681916>That's worked so far rightWhere has this been done? Is there some magical ancap nation where private road developers buy land and design their roads based on maximum demand and consumer satisfaction? Because here in the real world, municipal and state governments plan, construct (through corrupt contracting practices), and """maintain""" transport infrastructure, yielding exactly the kind of results you're talking about.
>>1679049also giving people work by building the walls, maximum efficiency and comfiness
>>1682629Using tax money to pay people to do pointless work is not efficiency. There's a reason walled fortifications fell out of use a long time ago. Can you figure out what that is?
>>1679049I think prettymuch every city walls outgrew the walls and had to knock em down.
>>16759962035 is so far away, why not ban them by next year?
>>1682709Because politics and economics.
It's hard to take these "green" activities seriously when politicians are pushing for electric cars instead of biodiesel.In 2035 we will likely have good hydrogen cars that can use the existing infrastructure.
>>1682918By 2035, we'll be using woodgas because the global economy will have collapsed.
the /o/tard seethe is delicious
>>1675996>implying the personal automobile can ever truly be environmentally friendlythis is missing the forest for the trees
>>1681917> Is there some magical ancap nation where private road developers buy land and design their roads based on maximum demand and consumer satisfaction?Has it ever occurred to you to think that maybe because such a thing has never happened is due to the very idea being childish drivel? You lot are literally no different from the communist you pretend to hate.
>>1683428Private roads already exist and are almost always better than public ones. Weird, huh? Also, great job avoiding my point that the situation you were complaining about was caused by the government and not the market.
>>1683783Not weird at all. The cult of the automobile demands sprawled, sparsely populated development with long stretches of parking lot space between. There simply isn't enough tax revenue in these developments to pay for their own maintenance, and cities have been going broke trying to pay for them for decades.
>>1677103>Driving a car makes you independent of the stateLoving every laugh
>>1683800Boo hoo, sometimes things can be good for everyone without generating “revenue”, maybe if you left your ancap bubble you’d understand that.
I hope more American states do this.
>>1683822urban sprawl is demonstrably not good for anyone.
GET OUT OF THE CITIES WHILE YOU STILL CAN
>>1683820>being able to choose where you travel to, when and with whom isn't freedom, it's... it's.... something else!!!!!
>>1681917>Is there some magical ancap nation where private road developers buy land and design their roads based on maximum demand and consumer satisfaction?No, because we need roads EVERYWHERE for EVERYONE, not just "where there's maximum demand." and a corporation can't accomplish that because it isn't profitable.And no, "consumer satisfaction" isn't the positive spin word you think it is- consumers are satisfied with tons of things that are objectively against their interests as long as shit's convenient. Whether the LCD will accept something is not a valid metric of quality.
>>1683846plenty of black outlined areas of high density with also high happiness, not sure what you're trying to prove
>>1683847There’s and obvious trend, you’re gonna just deny it but everyone else can see it
>>1683800>The cult of the automobile demands sprawled, sparsely populated development with long stretches of parking lot space betweenThis is objectively superior to your yuropoor anthive city plans, where you live on top of each other and rely on government to bus you around. It's base, servile, and pathetic. You own nothing, and you're happy.>>1683844>roads everywhere for everyoneNo, we don't. If you want a road in bumfuck nowhere for you and 3 other people to use, build it yourself. Gravel roads are piss-easy to make, scrape a bit of money together and rent some equipment for a week.>objectively against their interests as long as shit's convenientSo says the Knower of What People Need. Shit, we should just put you in charge of making all economic decisions for everyone, you sound really good at it.
>>1676820>Ultimately the only good solution might just be to euthanize or sterilize 95% of the population.If only
>>1683888You know in the before times there was a gradient of density between inner city hive and fake rural bullshit? An assortment of single-family homes mixed in with duplexes and triplexes? And did you know that you don't need to be bussed around when everything you want is within walking distance?Of course you don't, cultist, your masters have brainwashed you well.
>>1683930>when everything you want is within walking distanceYes, let's have 3 butchers, bakers, grocers, etc. per square kilometer. Peak European efficiency. And then you wonder why everything is so expensive in yurop, and why you're all going to be eating the bugs soon.Just admit that you're too poor to afford a car. We'll understand.
>>1675996Check out this energy density example of a gallon of gas (the jug) vs an electric car battery for the same energy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hatav_RdnnoICE is still superior, more efficient and that won't change any time soon
>>1683937>more efficientNot source to wheel. Never. Even when you're charging with lignite electricity.
>>1675996This is completely unworkable. Canada is the second largest country in the world and there's millions of miles of roads hours away from the power grid. It's a 5 hour drive between my town and Vancouver and that's something a shitload of people need to be able to do multiple times a year. Also camping, cutting firewood, taking the boat to a distant lake or going to a skihill, etc.It'll work fine in Toronto and the delta, everyone that lives in a town of less than 20k needs at least one vehicle that can go long distances. Batteries just aren't good enough, and unless there's a major breakthrough even by 2035 they won't be nearly able to compete with liquid fuels in terms of energy density, they're two orders of magnitude worse. If they do put some sort of rule in the books it's going to have so many exceptions and clauses that it doesn't actually stop anyone from doing anything, probably just end up making them more expensive and nothing else.Not that I'm likely to ever buy a vehicle made before the year 2005 anyway.
>>1683985People are just going to go Cuba-mode and keep existing vehicles running for another 50 years. Unless the government taxes petroleum into oblivion and everyone has no choice but to drive a cuckmobile.
>>1683992Honestly as soon as there's alternatives I'm perfectly fine with moving to them. There just aren't yet, and I'm really bothered by upper class city dwellers making laws that punish rural poorfags because they have no idea how anyone else lives.
>>1683985The overwhelming majority of Canadians live in metro areas. You are.severely exaggerating the issue as a practical matter for most people.
>>1683937ICE is vastly less efficient and converting energy. The advantage it has is because as a raw fuel it is about 50x as energy dense as Li-ion batteries today. But that goes down to about 14x once you factor in motor efficiency.
>>1682918The ship sailed on hydrogen consumer vehicles like 15 years ago.
>>1678400Incredibly based post. Take the village-pill
GM is announcing its third electric pickup. Most ICEs are obsolete.https://www.engadget.com/gm-third-electric-pickup-032356371.html
>>1684553So, another useless city cruiser that will get a 100 mile range when it's time to actually tow something (ie. use the truck as a truck)? What a deal!
>>1683985>probably just end up making them more expensivethus reducing mobility for the lower classes and/or tying a larger financial albatross around their necks. just as keikaku
>>1683937Ok now do a comparison by a decade, lets say last 50 years.The jug will still be the same jug, but the batteries are getting smaller and at some point will match and surpass the jug.The current state is not as important as the trend. But average people are always concerned only about today.
>>1684625>but the batteries are getting smallerAre they though? Lithium is about as optimized as it gets. Graphene batteries are like fusion, always 10 years away. Without a new generation of battery tech, electric vehicles will forever be dogshit
>>1684563Most truck owners are suburbanites who never use them for any work so these will probably outsell the ICE models.Not to mention fuel and maintenance are way cheaper on ICEs
>>1684671way cheaper than* ICEs
>>1684671>electric cars are cheaper/easier to maintainyeah, until they actually need maintaining. It's a bit like hydraulic disc brakes on bicycles, to make a comparison this board might understand.
>>1684695Just explain to us how an electric train is harder to maintain than a diesel or coal powered one.
>>1684695EVs are way cheaper on maintenance than gas-powered vehicles.
>>1676181>When is the last time you could fill up your gas tank at home faggot?i live a 2 minute pedal from the gas station
EVs have previously accounted for a small % of car sales because there just werent many EVs available. But suppliers have been working the last several years to redo their supply chains and dedicate them to electrics. A lot of manufacturers are about to stop selling ICEs entirely.https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-engines-cast-aside-electric-vehicles-job-losses-detroit-11627046285?mod=hp_lead_pos1
>>1676093And we have coal powered power plants to generate electricity to charge these beauties.
Mercedes goes all-electric by 2025https://thehill.com/policy/equilibrium-sustainability/564311-mercedes-benz-going-all-electric-by-2025
I think public services should be allowed to maintain gas powered emergency vehicles. Fire trucks, ambulances and so on.
>>1686497Fuck no. If electric eco-shit is the future such that gas vehicles are banned, then it has to apply to things even hippies need. They don't get to have it both ways.
>>1677087The same applies to electric cars, you just have huge batteries with low power density that you have to replace. Electric cars are shit, if oil was renewable, electric cars would not stand a chance
>>1686899If graphene batteries stopped being like fusion, perpetually 20 years away, electric cars would be great.
What about hydrogen powered cars?
>>1681913>less betterunironically kill yourself
>>1687009They suck. Also there's even less infrastructure than with electric ones.
>>1687025So why not build more infrastructure for them? I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of these automakers that promise they won’t make any gas cars by 2030 or whatever, won’t be making only electric cars but pivot last minute to stuff like hydrogen to satisfy the sect of customers that need quick refuels.
>>1687037Because it's expensive and electric cars are good enough for city dwellers, ie. the majority of the auto market.