So AmTrak is a terrible system for long distance travel in the US. It's too slow compared to flying, has to compete with freight traffic, and it can't compete with the value of driving for comparable distances.So, let me propose an alternative; the maglev. Although construction of maglev infrastructure is incredibly expensive, it typically has lower operational costs than traditional rail, and can operate at significantly higher speeds. For a region like, say, the Midwestern or Southern United States, where a route would only have stops every ~50 miles, a maglev system could make a business case. For trips between 300 and 500 miles, which are just short enough to justify flying, it would save the 2 hour security check, and if averaging ~150mph (conservative for most systems of its type) a maglev could realistically be closing in on its passengers' destinations by the time an air traveler would be seeing the wheels leave the runway.The massive downside is, naturally, the lack of maglev infrastructure existent in the US currently, but there are several routes that could make a case even in the current market. My immediate thought would be Pittsburgh-Atlanta with stops in Nashville, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Columbus; maybe include a Cincinnati-Chicago line with a stop in Indianapolis.
>>1664899Maglev is pointless for a large system. It offers marginal time savings over regular HSR at a vastly higher cost and complexity.
>>1664899>SoDon't start sentences this way OPMemelevs aren't common because conventional HSR technology is proven and doesn't come with a bleeding edge price tag
>>1664906Thing is, in the US, getting passenger rail to competitive speeds would mean building separate infrastructure from the freight haulers anyway, so why not build it right the first time and lower maintenance costs in the long run? After all, line maintenance is one of the largest expenses that railroads have historically faced; mitigating that will help keep costs down in the long run.
>>1664911>and lower maintenance costs in the long runMaintenance costs for conventional HSR are known. Long-term maglev costs are anyone's guess.
>>1664911All of the assumptions you're basing this on are false.
>>1664911I kind of agree.
>>1664899You can build high-speed rail for a fraction of money compared to that chink meme train. Just ask France (TGV), Belgium/Netherlands (Thalys), Germany (ICE), or the UK (Eurostar, HS1/2)The true reason why Amtrak is a bad long-distance system is because almost everywhere that is not the Northeastern US, major cities are generally way too far apart. The average American would need a shit ton of convincing to take a train between Denver and Los Angeles even if it would average speeds of 180 mph
>>1665082Why do people always do this? Has anyone ever unironically suggested HSR as a means of connecting denver to LA? Or is it just a way of derailing the discussion?
>>1665100i don't know much about US geography. is there a particular reason this isn't possible?
>>1665100sorry but the Northeast is not the only existent part of the continguous United Stages
>>1665106The point is it's physically possible but it would be an unlikely itinerary because there's nothing in between. If you take one of the longest stretches of "continuous" HSR in europe (london to marseille) it's about 70% the distance, but there's about 4 stops in between, so even if there isn't a lot of demand for london-marseille, there's enough london-paris, paris-lyon, paris-marseille, lyon-marseille to keep it profitableSupposedly from this we are to conclude that HSR is useless in the US because the vast majority of americans live in log cabins in the wilderness and ride around on horseback and only see other humans every couple of years. The existence of more closely spaced cities is always conceded with a "BUT". "BUT what if I want to go from lubbock to kalispell, it would be crazy to build HSRR on that route, therefore HSR is crazy!"
>>1665106it's the same distance between paris and Warsaw and you have to cross deserts and mountain ranges with only las vegas as viable midway stop.pretty stupid route.
>>1665131no im a german and all my friends are mahmuts from turkey, anyway if amtrak does not provide high speed rail between all major cities it will never fulfill its potential anyway, no one cares if a train serves bumfuckleton, montana once every fortnight.
>>1665137what do you consider "major cities" and what does "fulfill its potential" mean in your head? you can't even take HSR between madrid and paris, that just goes to show you that HSR will never work in europe
>>1665138>you can't even take HSR between madrid and parisyea because of the pyrenees. if you ever heard of the gotthard base tunnel you should know how difficult it is to build a rail tunnel through a major mountain range. it took the swiss 17 years and 9 deaths just to build and many more years to plan
>>1665200the Basque Y project was delayed, the plan is to route the trains from Madrid via Valladolid, Burgos, San Sebastian along the coast (not the Pyrenees) and Bordeaux to Paris.
>>1664899I tried to shill ground effect trains here before, they got jewed in the 80's, all they need is something slightly more complicated than a road (or maybe even reused spaces around roads), and modern technology can solve most of the problem they allegedly had.I drew a map of Brazil with those trains centered around major cities and, ignoring other problems, their insane speed (500 kph) can easily connected almost the entire inhabited part of the country to major cities.Similar vehicles, bigger and smaller ones, can also fly over water, snow or deserts.
>>1665218>be Spain>don't build rail network just lines going everywhere from Madridclassy as ever
>>1665200You fucking idiot, there IS an HSR tunnel through the pyrenees, the HS line goes all the way to Perpignan, it's from there to Lyon that there's no HS line making the journey from Spain to Paris so long. It has nothing to do with the mountains.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpignan%E2%80%93Barcelona_high-speed_rail_line
>>1665138If you mean as a direct route without a change yes, if not then that's false. You can take HSR from Madrid to Barcelona then From Barcelona to Paris.It's still a bit long since the HSL from Montpellier to Perpignan is still in construction but when done it's like a 5/6h train trip.https://www.oui.sncf/proposition/outward/train?wishId=11f71887-d821-4ad8-9442-d4cfed407d67
>>1664911>so why not build it right the first time and lower maintenance costs in the long run>America>build it right the first time and lower maintenance costs in the long run>AmericaBruh, that's not how this country functions. This country works off of awarding a contract to a company that offers it to the cheapest but then in reality will go massively over budget, will miss their target finish date by several years, and most of the money ended up not even going to the project but actually disappeared into a "magic hole." The end result will also somehow end up being a worse quality then the initial low payment would have provided for and will need to be overhauled only a couple years later. But by then no one will even agree to provide the money to pay for that because something something "big government." So the problems will keep getting worse until people die, at which point everyone will overreact, create a new expensive alphabet agency to "never let this happen again," declare a war on bad infrastructure which ends up creating more problems for the entire rest of society, and proceed to still not actually fix the problem in the first place. Meanwhile the higher ups from that initial company that won the first contract will be relaxing on a private island while entertaining the politicians that head the war on bad infrastructure.
>>1665218>the plan is to route the trains from Madrid via Valladolid, Burgos, San Sebastian along the coast (not the Pyrenees) and Bordeaux to ParisHow much faster than building a connection between Perpignan & Toulouse and running services via Barcelona is a RENFE/TGV service via Bilbao supposed to be?
>>1666000Not that anon, but surely not more than half an hour improvement in a 5-6 hour journey, which in any case is too long a distance for HSR to truly make sense, and southern France is too sparsely populated for regional trips to have significant demand. That anon is just talking out his ass, Spain isn't interested in connecting to France, they just want to connect every last hamlet to their capital by HSR, and they've built the most senseless, uneconomical and least used HSR network in the world. Everything about Spains HSR is one big clusterfuck, and the best part is they've built it by disregarding all non-HS lines where you can routinely find 50 year old EMUs offering a bare bones regional service.
>>1664899Make everything maglev. Even the freight trains.
>>1666166Wildly false to claim Spain's HSR system is the least economical or least used. Also, you completely lied by ignoring that France's HSR system has the exact fucking same model -- connect everything to Paris. Read a book or kill yourself. Either way.
>>1665138You can take HSR from Madrid to Barcelona and then from Barcelona to Paris, what the fuck are you talking about?
>>1664899>incredibly expensive>>1664906>marginal time savings50% travel time compared to a full HSR, while costing only 37% more.Lower travel time=more passengers/hourMore passengers/hour=less cost/passengerA stock company would not make a $84 billion investment unless its 100% sure it will pay itself back, with profits.
>>1666338I'm not that guy, but go suck a dick. Spain did everything related to high speed rail wronghttps://www.railway-technology.com/features/spain-high-speed-railway/>Is Spain’s high-speed railway a case of ‘too much, too soon’?https://www.economist.com/europe/2020/08/06/spains-high-speed-trains-are-poor-value>Spain’s high-speed trains are poor valuehttps://english.elpais.com/elpais/2016/05/23/inenglish/1464003478_520592.html>One in four AVE stations used by fewer than 100 passengers a day>High-speed rail network is still making a loss overall, with just three profitable routesThey even had to open to competitors to operate because they had so much debtpic related you faggot.>>1666465Between Perpignan and Montepellier trains use the local line. It accounts for only 1 of the 6 hours of travel time, but he has a point: The HSR lines are local, and the long distance travel are just a consequence of it, not the main objective.
>>1666588Yeah anything's possible when you're Too Big To Fail™ and get trillions of yen in long term sub-1% interest loans and a thumbs up from the government to one-up your arch rival
>>1666338>Wildly false to claim Spain's HSR system is the least economical or least used.Which one would that be then?>you completely lied by ignoring that France's HSR system has the exact fucking same model -- connect everything to Paris.Where did I lie? I never denied that, but I was talking about Spain. You're just using someone else doing the same stupid thing as an excuse.But if you want to argue, Paris has about three times the population of Madrid, and France has twice the population of Spain and the highest overall rail use after Switzerland.Holy shit imagine getting so butthurt because you need to defend the biggest white elephant in the history of Europe.
>>1665138Never mind Madrid, there is no direct connection between Paris and the German capital Bonn.
>>1666775>the German capital Bonnh-how old are you?
>>166687937It's a nice town, I've been there a couple of times.
>>1666881You do know that Bonn hasn't been the political capital of Germany since sometime in the 1990s?
dimension hoppers take me with you
>>1666883It's still the seat of the government. Berlin was made capital after the "reunification" in 1990 but Bonn is the one that actually matters.
>>1665577>m.wikipediayou have to be over the age of 18 to use 4chan
>>1666893never post cringe anon
>>1666889niggawhatBerlin was always the capital. The government was moved from Bonn to Berlin after reunification.What are you smoking and where can I get some
>>1666898Berlin wasn't even part of Germany. It was a city under control of the occupation powers.And it should have stayed that way.
>>1666907unironically take your meds
>>1666915Butthurt Berliner detected.
>>1666606JR Tokai>>1666695>one-up your arch rivalwatThere is no competition for the Tokaido Shinkansen, and both the Tokaido and Chuo Main Lines are divided halfway between JR East and JR Central.
>>1666748Germany and Italy for starters.
>>1666748If you think AVE is a white elephant, that's all the proof we need to definitively conclude you're an unserious retard.
>>1667045>GermanyGermany has no segregated HSR lines, just upgraded lines. >ItalyHas just two lines which carry a total of three times as many passengers as Spain's whole HSR network.>>1667046It's the second largest HSR network in the world, and the least used measuring by passenger-km. Other than the lines Madrid-Sevilla and Madrid-Barcelona it's all 1000% white elephant.
>>1667085What's your alternative then? Oh right, you don't have one. Spain famously has abandoned or horrifically low traffic regional airports. There literally isn't a better option for regional travel in Spain than AVE.
>>1667087I love how you keep moving goalposts. At least now you admit it's a white elephant and are trying to justify it by saying there's no better alternative.Spaniards are rightfully not known for being pragmatic, so they insist on a one-size-fits-all solution which is ofc retarded. Like I said, for starters Madrid-Sevilla and Madrid-BCN are fine. The line Madrid-Valencia could have been upgraded to 160-200kph for much less cost than building a whole new HS line. Journey times of 5 hours, maybe 4 and a half would be perfectly fine as by car it's 4 hours. Barcelona-Valencia had already been upgraded in the 1980s. For the Madrid-Bilbao line there was this cool thing called Directo de Burgos which could have easily been upgraded to 160kph for pennies and would have allowed better travel times to the north. Madrid-Galicia was a lost cause and a good regional network of semi-HS trains in Galicia linking the airport of Santiago de Compostela to the other major cities would have worked fine, coupled with an expanded trenhotel service. Same goes for Barcelona-Galicia, which currently is served by planes and the most relevant trenhotel service (and this will likely stay because the HS network is useless for this journey). In general for transpeninsular lines a network of overnight trains would have been perfect affordable yet convenient. Spain had a tremendous overnight train network in the 1980s, the only reason this was given up was because le omg so old fashioned not cool and modern. Now the ÖBB has BTFO'd that retarded thinking. Six hours by HSR like Sevilla-BCN isn't really practical anyway because you still lost the whole day. By that combination of HSR, upgraded lines, air travel and night trains you would have had excellent communication at a fraction of the cost and more egalitarian distribution of service with every place getting what it needs.And all that is just off the top of my head, imagine if there had actual studies been done into the matter.
>>1667087>There literally isn't a better option for regional travel in Spain than AVE.This is 100% false.
>>1667198Are you brain damaged? The conventional trains are much slower, driving takes longer, and the aforementioned regional airport system in Spain is trash.But hey, keep digging in against reality. That'll definitely go well for you.
>>1667158You literally just admitted that your "solution" is to have a bunch of rail services that aren't competitive with driving, which completely disincentives their use. You are a profoundly dumb person.
>>1667227The coverage of AVE is trash, buses are often the best option.
>>1667227>NOOOOO YOUR COUNTRY CAN'T FUNCTION IF YOU CAN'T TRAVEL AT ABSURD SPEEDS TO EVERY LAST BUMBLEFUCK TOWNAnd yet most of them do>>1667228>parroting state propaganda this hardIs it like a mandate from God that Spain has to get everyone to use the train? Spain has the largest highway network in Europe and all those roads are empty, WHAT'S THE FUCKING URGENCY OF GETTING EVERYONE OUT OF THEIR CARS
>>1667028>There is no competition for the Tokaido ShinkansenTokyo-Osaka has plenty of scheduled flights.Even Nagoya-Tokyo is still served.
>>1667304was talking about rail, since i misunderstood him thinking he was saying JR East competed against JR Central.