Thread on everything /n/ related in the German speaking areas of Europe.
>>1657180OP pic is the Walzehuusebähnli, the little rack railway that runs from Rheineck to Walzenhausen in eastern Switzerland. It's one of three rack railway lines in the region, all owned and operated by the Appenzeller bahnen. They're also some of the least profitable lines in Switzerland, and at least one of them will likely be closed in the medium term.The Walzenhausen line only has that one car which dates from 1958, making it probably the oldest vehicle in regular revenue service in Switzerland.
>>1657181On this AB system map you can see the three rack lines: The Rorschach-Heiden line, the Rheineck-Walzenhausen line (both isolated from the rest of the AB network but connected to other rail lines), and the Altstätten-Gais line.The Heiden line sees some commuter and tourist usage, so it'll be kept despite low profitability.The Walzenhausen line is a mixed bag, because it needs new rolling stock soon but being a tiny little line with few passengers that's a big expense. However it's very dear to the town of Walzenhausen, and it's also a small tourist attraction, often coupled with taking the Heiden line, hiking to Walzenhausen, and then taking the Walzenhausen line back down.The Altstätten-Gais line has the problem that it ends on the opposite side of Altstätten from where the mainline railway station is, and apparently the kino option of having it cross the town as a street running tram isn't being considered, and instead it would get switched to bus service when the rolling stock reaches the end of its useful life in 10-15 years.Rack lines in eastern Switzerland have it tough.
What do you guys think about Scheuers idea to revive the Trans Europa Express? I'd love for it to work out, but I fear it's gonna be another CDU meme to out-green the Greens.https://www.bmvi.de/SharedDocs/DE/Pressemitteilungen/2021/048-scheuer-mit-der-bahn-unweltfreundlich-durch-deutschland-und-europa.html
>>1657281Sounds pretty kino tbqh despite the hurr durr umweltfreundlich turbocringe. Also good to hear that night trains are being eyed as well, those should have never disappeared. We'll see if this goes anywhere.
Austrian railways resuming night service and introducing a new connection from Vienna to Amsterdam.https://www.nau.ch/news/europa/osterreichische-bundesbahnen-setzen-wieder-auf-nachtzuge-65935244Austrian railways are the biggest player in night trains in Western Europe, with a sizeable network already. Pic related.
>>1658520The train parts from Innsbruck to Amsterdam has the number Nightjet 420, I'm not kidding.
>>1658709Based ÖBB living the thug life
>>1658709could be just a coincidence.
Went to ride the oldtimer trams in Zurich today, the Kurbeli has been running again since a few weeks ago, hadn't seen it in ages since it was in the shops. Very kino. Took almost no phone pics, instead I took my movie camera, will post vids in a few days wgen I get the footage back and if it's any good.
ffs get your shit together Germany
>>1658512I love the idea of taking a night train to go on vacation, but sadly there isn't a single stop in my state. Here's hoping they expand the network further.>>1660248DB had just got things running smoothly when out of nowhere people started actually using trains again. This makes things very difficult, please understand.
Zürich just had a critical mass with 10K+ riders, police reports the pulk to have been 4km long at times and car traffic collapsed for 30-45 minutes.Zürich has, despite a dozen public votes demanding bikling infrastructure and a lefty.green government for 30 years, still the worst cycling infrastructure in all of Switzerland, this is why cyclists put the pressure on the streets now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQ0xgq501lk
>>1660382in b4 tramfag throws a tantrum because his precious trams was jammed too.
>>1660382STOP JAMMING MY TRAMS REEEEEEEEEE
>>1660382>hey everyone! look how fucking annoying it would be if there were way more cyclists! now give us more infrastructure!
>>1657281Sounds good until you come to the>Scheuer Andipart. It's probably not gonna happen, yet will waste so much money as if it had happened.
>>1660904It's funny how everyone gets their panties in a twist about a single bicycle traffic jam, but car traffic jams are an everyday occurence and seen as natural.
>>1660938Except we've been continuously reducing car infrastructure in cities for the last 30 years.
>>1660961Not in Zürich. Despite several public votes demanding just that. Now people are fed up and take to the streets. It's gonna be a fun summer.
speaking of Zurich, the new Negrelli (no, that's not the swiss diminutive for black person just because there's an -li at the end) bridge is the place to be for train autists.
>>1660961For the last 10 years maybe, after continuously expanding it for 50 years.
>>1660992>ordered a cyclist bridge>got a pedestrian bridgetnx fipo
Forgive me me /CHAD/, for I have sinned.Bought a car.Already 5000km on it.Didn't renew my Bahncard.
>>1662868take your pills
Stay classy DB
Volvo hybrid (worst bus on the market according to /n/) caught fire last night in Zurich and managed to burn the cars nearby too.>select all squares with buses captchasheh
>>1663839>not go quietly into the dark night, but taking a couple cagers with himbased bus!
>>1663839How many cages did the martyr bus take with him?
Hat /dach/ schon Sonder-Sparpreise zu €17,90 gebucht?Seit heute früh verfügbar, wenn ich richtig informiert bin.Auf der Bahn-Seite findet man dazu allerdings nichts - außer den niedrigeren Preisen.
Pic-related is currently circulating on the German-speaking web.Does anyone know what could have happened there?The only real river on that stretch would be the Werse, but it doesn't look like the bridge over that was a Klappbrücke or anything that could have an influence on railway traffic.
>>1664805>being this bad at kanji死ね
>>1666329>being this bad at ネット用語Du bist ein Grünschnabel.
>>1666347youyou're alright anon
>>1666880You will kill me last?Thanks!Rev up your Japanese studies first, though.
>>1666890I only did a year because I got too busy with study and work. I always think of taking it up again but there's so little time left when you're a pathetic little wagie :(
Zürich really wants cycling infrastructure.
>>1668457It's just a cycling tunnel under the main station using an existing but unused tunnel structure which would also offer bike parking space at the main station. It's just a perfectly sensible project.
>>1668463Yes, and apparently it takes 15 years+ to hang a couple light bulbs there.
In den weiteren Nachrichten: XXL-ICE!https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/pressestart_zentrales_uebersicht/Sommerfahrplan-Bahn-schickt-XXL-ICE-auf-die-Reise-und-baut-Angebot-stark-aus-6232494
>>1670205Außerdem zusätzliche Urlaubs-IC(E).
>>1670207>ICE to Bregenzbut Augsburg-Buchloe isn't electrified, does it take a detour via Munich?
>>1670259Kenne mich in der Gegend nicht aus, aber da sind Züge im System:https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/traininfo.exe/dn/611796/637471/920262/256199/80Fernbahn meint, das sei ein ICE-T.
>>1668465They have to pave it, build access ramps, and (could be in a second phase) add bike utilities like parking. At least the ramps are a pretty major construction project.
>>1670312Found it out thanks to the timetable info. The direct connection between Augsburg and Buchloe isn't electrified. The train takes a detour via Mering and Geltendorf, which is electrified and U-Turns in Geltendorf. It loses a lot of time like this. When Ulm - Friedrichshafen - Lindau electrification is finished, they could reroute the connection from Nürnberg to Ulm instead of Augsburg.
>>1670338>It loses a lot of time like thisWell, I suppose even if the ICE-TD hadn't been Bender'd, they wouldn't have been used for this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625dL8XitOkNice, public initiative demands removal of a street several parking lots to build a new park near lake Zurich.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=625dL8XitOk
>>1670394Seems to me the developers in that zone want their property vale to go up. But eh why not, any surface parking in the city is a fucking eyesore.
>>1670407It's more like we'd rather have a nice park at the lake where we can spend our free time than cars from the burbs jamming up the space. Most real estate there is Swiss RE and they don't give a fuck about the value because they are like the richest fucks on earth anyway.
>>1670421the whole area needs a bit of a facelift anyway, it's not the most attractive area in my opinion despite being at the lake. it's probably not the worst idea to move the rest of the traffic from Mythenquai to Alfred-Escher Strasse that runs in parallel. They could retain a small stretch of road for the buses to Kilchberg, so they aren't stuck at the General Wille/Alfred-Escher crossing. Even if you keep the traffic on Mythenquai, the surface parking lots at Swiss REEE formerly Chucks Rückversicherungsanstalt and the Cactus exhibition offer a lot of space to be transformed into a bigger park area.
https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/web/deutsche-telekom-und-die-bahn-versprechen-lueckenlosen-mobilfunk-in-zuegen-a-57089bdd-9ffa-41f6-b461-66dd434add8c>Um Störungen zwischen den Netzen zu verhindern, muss das alte GSM-R-Netz der Bahn (Global System for Mobile Communications – Rail), ein Mobilfunknetz speziell für den Bahnverkehr, das auch als »digitaler Zugfunk« bezeichnet wird, abgebaut werden.Does anyone have more insight into why Deutsche Bahn has no problem with switching off GSM-R infrastructure in exchange for better coverage by Telekom?That seems fucking ridiculous, especially considering ETCS-L2/3.Also, aren't that completely different frequencies? The potential interferences are probably practically negligible.
Kein GDL-Streik bis mindestens Anfang August!https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article232057607/Claus-Weselsky-GDL-verzichtet-vorerst-auf-Lokfuehrer-Streik-Abstimmung-im-August.html
Deutsche Bahn plans Frankfurt21, a new tunnel and station below the existing main station for the ICEs. The high speed trains would save 8 minutes like that and it would help save time for the Deutschlandtakt. They don't call it Frankfurt21 (yet) and will keep the existing station, the estimated cost is 3.6 billion €, so make it 7 billions. An interesting fact is that the tunnel would have to go around the skyscrapers, because their foundations reach up to 50 meters into the ground.https://www.deutschebahn.com/de/presse/pressestart_zentrales_uebersicht/Planung-fuer-Fernbahntunnel-startet-Taeglich-250-Zuege-mehr-zum-Hauptbahnhof-Frankfurt-6263398https://www.fernbahntunnel-frankfurt.de/home.html
>>1675056>BER opened less than year ago after nearly a decade of delays and massive cost overruns>Stuttgart 21 still going, expected to need at least 4 more years of construction and massive cost overruns>hey, let's start another extremely complex multi-billion euro infrastructure project! It'll save a few minutes of travel time!
>>1675056>and will keep the existing stationUnlike S21 that is actually based.
>>1675056F21 could actually work out, since they are keeping the above-ground station.It's an ADDITIONAL line to accelerate ICE traffic through Frankfurt. Think Köln Messe/Deutz (tief).The major fault with S21 was that they have wasted billions (and public good-will) on actually downgrading the traffic capacity in Stuttgart.>>1675071F21 is several orders of magnitude less complex than S21 and BER.
>>1675056I don't understand the south corridor, why tunnel under the river for that long? Is it actually easier/cheaper than tunneling through then connecting it to the existing network?
>>1675076I will agree that the idea to add a through station to Frankfurt Hbf makes sense, but 1) Going by the map the "easy" variant is tunneling parallel under the Main. That seems like the sort of thing that can get really expensive really quick. 2) I feel like 3,6 billion is a lot of money for a time saving of less than ten minutes, especially when compared with some of the Neubau-/Schnellfahrstrecken.
>>1675135I don't know the details, but they probably need to save 10 minutes THERE to make the nation-wide ITF work out.It kind of boggles my mind how they want to do that with only 4 long-distance platforms in Frankfurt Hbf, but they most likely wouldn't attempt that, if they hadn't thought this one through.They probably have the airport station in mind as well for that. I hope.
>>1675137>>1675135Nah, first anon is right, that's WAY too expensive for 8 minutes, surely you can save that time by improving the rail line elsewhere, like reducing curves and such. The project would make sense if it's mainly to gain capacity, as through tracks are more efficient for through trains. This was the case in Zurich when they built the second underground station at Hauptbahnhof, the above ground tracks were simply unable to handle all the traffic.
>>1660938The average jam is no where this bad.
>>1675056>They don't call it Frankfurt21 (yet)fixed:>They don't call it Frankfurt21 (anymore)They already had this planned (somewhat different, but still) way back when, and it was called Frankfurt21.Not sure what to think about it yet. Seems better thought out than S21, but it absolutely will be as expensive, it not more so, and I'm not sure how this shall play out with their second long distance stop at the airport, which should become more important, considering that LH should try to cut down on the short distance flights.
>>1675137>but they most likely wouldn't attempt that, if they hadn't thought this one through.Lol. That's where you're wrong.
F21, can work. It will definitively make it possible to run more ICEs throgh Frankfurt and free above ground tracks for other trains. One problem thou, The two east portals of the tunnel will end at the mainlines north and south the river Main. Both lines have only two tracks, hich will lead to congestion with all the S-Bahn, Regional trains, Cargo trains and other passenger services running on those lines. They need to expand those lines to four tracks, like they are currently doing with the mainline north to Gießen.
>>1676316Won't that situation be eased by the ICEs leaving closer to the symmetry minute than regional services and S-Bahn?Fit the tunnels with ETCS-3 and have the ICEs depart in moving blocks. They will be long through by the time the regional services get around to it.
A new rail line is planned between Frankfurt and Mannheim to expand capacity on that stretch. It's part of the overall project of expanding capacity on the Rheintalbahn that Germany committed itself to, which in turn is part of the trans-European-network stretch of Genua-Basel-Frankfurt-Antwerpen. Switzerland for its part only just built the longest rail tunnel in the world as part of that project, and even Italy did their part, obviously Germany can't be arsed to build two measly new tracks. But they're already planning this new station concourse in Frankfurt. What a fucking laughing stock Germany is. And they talk of European unity.
>>1660992How long will it take until the Negerli-Steg will be renamed?>select all bicycles
>>1676342The whole project (TEN) is a fucking joke in Germany.Switzerland and the Netherlands are done, meanwhile Germany hasn't even started for the most part.
Postan some images I took of the old trams in Zurich a few weeks ago
>>1679273>>1679274>>1679276>>1679278Nice videos!>Nicht auf den Boden spucken!Wat?
>>1679323Don't make me tap the sign
>>1658512I wonder if they're gonna open connections to France. Im sure a Paris Vienna line would sell well considering night trains in France have been cut to the bare minimum.
>>1659780spin the wheel
>>1681779Pull the string!
>>1681779What would that even do?
>>1681966It's a handbrake, it would slow the tram down at first, eventually either the driver would stop and see wtf is going on, or the electrics would overheat from the current and it might blow a fuse.But even before that the conductor who was sitting in the trailer would ask you wtf you're doing
>>>/int/148582388Ist das nicht in der Nähe der Teststrecke in Wegberg?
Does anyone have information about the state of affairs in Dahlhausen?Looks very landunter going by the pictures in the press from the town center, but how about the railway museum?
>>1673312GSM-R, the brand new European standard that countries have until 2030 to implement, is already deprecated (its the same 3G we stopped using for mobile phones 10 years ago), hence why every month we get those "China launches 5G train" news, which literally means they don't have a outdated radio.Until EU decides on a new standard every country will do whatever they want, specially if they already have a reliable technology like Germany.
How would /chad/ organise the seemingly complex rush hour traffic of the Forchbahn in Zurich?Currently they have four kinds of services operating under the line S18:>regular service to Forch, continuing to Esslingen>regular service terminating at Forch>rapid service to Forch, continuing normally to Esslingen>rapid service terminating at ForchThis is highly unusual for Zurich, where Tram and S-Bahn lines usually only have one kind of service (excluding first and last runs).Also, would you keep the S18 label now that there are two other light rails are running on the Zurich tram network.
What are some German-language YouTube channels and websites to follow for news and discussions of public transit, urbanism, city planning and architecture?Don't really know of any except that one channels that uploads clips on public transit from regional newscasts, ~95% of english channels focus on the absurdities of north american planning, and in old school journalism these topics are close to nonexistent despite the major importance of good urban planning to make housing affordable and create actually livable areas.
>>1679347Maybe the French or the Germans would like to virtue signal a bit by re-establishing their night train system they axed a decade ago, I mean thes Swiss are already talking about it.
>>1687189>a decade agoIt hasn't been THAT long.At least Germany axed the few remaining trains like 5 or 6 years ago.
>>1687198True, that makes it look even worse.I for one welcome any new overnight connection, be it by the legacy railways or new competitors.
>>1684925There are the offivial channels of the Public transit companies:https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUWE7apeDoepJixzxyjP9vghttps://www.youtube.com/user/Hochbahnhttps://www.youtube.com/user/MVGservicehttps://www.youtube.com/user/kvbaghttps://www.youtube.com/user/VGFChannel
>>1676342I'd prefer if they finally added a new rail line that bypasses the middle rhine valley so that cargo trains don't have to squeeze through there.
https://youtu.be/S6w8hNW1k90can someone explain this youtube video? it got recommended to me after watching a single train wreck compilation.
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/thueringen/bahn-mitte-deutschland-verbindung-100.htmlDoesn't look like things will improve on the MDV for the time being.>>1690317Wrong thread.
I would usually have linked the official website, but that's been gendered to unreadability, so this article will have to make due:https://www.spiegel.de/auto/bvg-hvv-mvv-und-co-wer-ein-oepnv-abo-hat-darf-im-september-damit-auch-in-anderen-staedten-fahren-a-9ee1bb17-40a0-481b-9536-7a84325804ae>Sie gilt demnach in über 95 Prozent aller Tarif- und Verkehrsverbünde.>95 ProzentLooks like a recipe for disaster to be honest. Also, aren't there railway lines outside any Verbund?This will probably ultimately end in quite a few "erhöhte Beförderungsentgelte", and really bad press for public transit.
>>1693239>I would usually have linked the official website, but that's been gendered to unreadability...Here, have this addition to make German readable again:>Firefoxhttps://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/binnen-i-be-gone/>Chromehttps://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/binnen-i-be-gone/ginkajgcbeolbiflkjomlkcdapbegaff?hl=de
>>1693239I'm sure the people checking tickets will handle this with their usual delicacy and tact. I guess it's a test balloon to see if this is viable on a long - term scale. Might be cool, though I personally don't know anyone who would benefit from/use this. Then again, going by the map Kleinstaaterei seems to be alive and well in BaWü and Bavaria, so people there might appreciate this.Fuck the GDL btw
>>1693443>I'm sure the people checking tickets will handle this with their usual delicacy and tact.Well...yeah, that's the problem.>I personally don't know anyone who would benefit from/use this.I know even normal people that already plan to go from one end of the republic to the other using this.Semestertickets probably won't be valid for this, though.
>>1693239How fucking massive the RMV is, second only to the VBB. Omly the HVV and for some reason the VGN comes close.
>>1694717Missed your thread?Does he have any connection with German-speaking Europe except for running a kebap shop?
>>1693239>>1693443>>1693723Better map:http://kursbuch.bahn.de/hafas/kbview.exe/dn?rt=1&mainframe=IK_verbundQuite a Flickenteppich. BW looks fine, but especially Bayern looks like a disaster in the making.
>>1695072>http://kursbuch.bahn.de/hafas/kbview.exe/dn?rt=1&mainframe=IK_verbundwtf is this abomination?it looks like i just travelled back to 2002
>>1695121I still have a physical version of that thing from a few years back (when they were still sold - the other side has a complete railway map of Germany).I was considering stitching a more usable version together with the images vk-0-0.jpg through vk-5-10.jpg, but that would probably constitute a copyright violation, so I won't do that.
Using NS makes me want to kill myself.Why can't all the different operators just subsume themselves into DB?
>>1663839When will the cucks learn that trolleys are superior to battery and hybrid buses?
>>1695521Zurich actually plans to build more trolley lines.
>>1695303Nederlandse Spoorwegen? What happened?Did a day trip a few years back and it was a fucking paradise compared to Germany.Everything on time, clean rolling-stock and really good connections.
*blocks your path*
>>1696348Is that Berchtesgaden?
Here's some oldtimerpoasting: Reichenbachfall-Bahn (funicular) in Switzerland.
Brienz-Rothorn Bahn runs mostly steam engines. Most are actually rather modern, built in the 1990s and oil-fired, but Locomotive Nr 6 is from 1933 and coal-fired.
One more Oldtimer, Niesen funicular, cars are from the last renovation in 1946/47.
>>1699038Definitely the GOAT Funicular :^)
>>1693505>Semestertickets probably won't be valid for this, though.News on that front: at least NRW Semestertickets are apparently valid for this:https://www.blickfeld-wuppertal.de/service/deutschland-abo-upgrade-per-semesterticket-durch-die-ganze-bundesrepublikI'm happy, but it sounds like a recipe for disaster.Also considering the strike currently brewing.
>>1702086Quoting the official site:>Berechtigt sind Kunden des öffentlichen Nahverkehrs mit gültigen Abo-Tickets. Dazu zählen auch Seniorentickets, Semestertickets, Job- und Firmentickets sowie Schülertickets.Looks like that applies nation-wide.>Semesterferien>nation-wide train ticket for all studentsDoesn't sound like they have thought that one through uezs.
Lmao Hamburg anon on suicide watch
>>1702977>generally about 2%A lot less slower than I would have expected.If that's for the genuine door-to-door time, then that's excellent.(It's not, right?)
>>1693239>>1702086>>1702090Can confirm: Semestertickets are valid.Considering how they have designed the application process, it probably would have been simply too difficult to remove exactly the Semestertickets, though.
>>1702992Ha, I just noticed they fucked up that graph. It is supposed to be times, not percent. 2,24x longer than a car journey.
>>1705295>2,24x longerIs that 324% MIV travel time or 224% MIV travel time?
bros i miss munich ;-;
>>1699038>>1699040And it still works, compared to certain newer models.
https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/unternehmen/einigung-bahn-gdl-101.html>Weitere Streiks sind damit erst einmal vom Tisch.Schön.
>>1708564So when will be the next strikes, I mean opportunity for negotiations?