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Governors from a dozen states are asking President Biden to ban the sale of cars and light trucks that emit greenhouse gases by 2035.

In a letter to the president, the governors of California, New York, North Carolina and nine other states — all but one a Democrat — asked for the change ahead of a White House climate summit, scheduled to begin Thursday.

"By establishing a clear regulatory path to ensuring that all vehicles sold in the United States are zero-emission, we can finally clear the air and create high-road jobs," the governors wrote in the letter.

"Moving quickly towards a zero-emission transportation future will protect the health of all communities," they added.
>>
>>1641522
Fuck these champagne socialists desu.
>>
There isn't an EV that costs less than 35k with a range better than 200 miles.

There are no EV 2500/3500 trucks even planned.

Hydrogen wouldn't even be ready in 15 years without trillions of dollars spent.

How about do something that is possible now and cost only a few billion a year to implement. Electrification of the railroads.
>>
>>1641522
I don't want to burn to death in a lithium fire but I guess I might now
>>
>>1641541
>There isn't an EV that costs less than 35k with a range better than 200 miles.
It's pretty obvious the future means decreased mobility for the 99%
>>
>>1641541
>There isn't an EV that costs less than 35k with a range better than 200 miles.
That's the point, if you're poor they don't want you to be able to travel far. You might think that they'd supply high speed rail as a replacement for cars but instead they'll just pretend they're thinking about it and they'll deliver exactly nothing
>>
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>>1641522
>it's another "politicians promise to do something impossible decades from now (and long after most of them are dead) so they can take credit today" episode.
>>
i don't care about cars
>>
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>>1641555
We're in a pandemic.
>>
>>1641555
>>1641556
yet you oppose expansion of public transport and rail, correct
>>
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>>1641581
Nothing says "increased mobility" like stealing someone's car and forcing them onto a bus that only goes five places and takes an hour to get to any of them.
>>
Won't happen, money from gasoline is too nice.
>>
14 years to not only make an EV or hydrogen version of every automobile, but also build enough dc fast charging.

You need a $15g shitbox that goes 300 miles and has a dc fast charger port. Then every 150 miles you need dozens and dozens of dc fast chargers available. Drive the shitbox ev. Then stop and charge for 45 minutes. Drive it 2 hours and stop for 45 minutes again.

Truck stops will need several times the chargers as they currently have diesel pumps. Trucking hourse of service laws will need to be changed to account for the hour plus charge.

Then you have to figure out how to counter used cars getting more desirable. Which screws the working class out of affordable cars.
>>
>>1641581
Low iq post faggot
>>
>>1641607
>14 years to build enough dc fast charging.
140 years might not be enough at the current rate of expansion.

>Trucking hourse of service laws will need to be changed to account for the hour plus charge.
A semi can carry up to 300 gallons of gas, which is over 20 times as much as an average car, so the charge would be roughly 20 times as long for the same amps.

>Then you have to figure out how to counter used cars getting more desirable. Which screws the working class out of affordable cars.
All according to plan.
>>
>>1641590
Nothing says forward thinking like insisting nothing can ever change.
>>
>>1641617
Nothing says progress like using governmental power to force things on people that they've already decisively rejected with their wallets.
>>
>>1641621
You can't reject something with your wallet if it's not even available for purchase.
>>
>>1641624
Bus passes have always been available for purchase.
>>
>>1641555
If 99% of the pop have less mobility then the environment around them will begin to change. Suddenly we’ll see the end of (sub)urban sprawl and an increase in public transportation quality and quantity. Infrastructure for non car oriented mobility will be invested in, like bike paths and pedestrianised streets.
I don’t believe EVs are the answer because manufacturing the batteries alone releases more greenhouse gasses than your average car will in its lifetime. But it they cut down car ownership then that’s a good thing.

Unfortunately the reality will be an increase in miles travelled by people due to increased convenience. Subscription based car sharing models combined with self driving vehicles will allow the average person to press a button and have a car drive itself to their house to pick them up. And why pay for parking in town when you can just have your car do laps around the block while you’re in the shop? EVs are a disaster.
>>
>>1641641
>I don’t believe EVs are the answer because manufacturing the batteries alone releases more greenhouse gasses than your average car will in its lifetime.
False facts, ICEs will overtake EVs in lifetime emissions after eight to twelve years depending on a few parameters. Needless to say EVs aren't exactly environmentally friendly either way, only more environmentally friendly than ICEs.
>>
>>1641524
>>1641557
>>1641590
>>1641559
well if the babydicks from pol are upset about this then it must be a good thing
>>
>>1641557
It’s strange how poltards react when a politician actually thinks of the future. Guess they loved Trump because he can’t think 5 minutes ahead.
>>
>>1641642
Yeah this has been debunked a million times. The ICE only releases less emissions if you don’t drive it. Once you drive the ICE 60 miles you’ve already emitted more than an electric car over the course of its lifetime.

Then when you factor in the rise in renewable energy it’s questionable if manufacturing the EV even releases more greenhouse gas than the ICE.
>>
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>>1641641
>the only way to save the world is to deliberately make everyone more miserable

>>1641642
>>1641661
>if we assume all our problems will magically be solved in the future everything looks much better for us

>>1641650
>I form my opinions by finding out what the people I hate think and believing the opposite

>>1641660
>Trump's still living rent free in my head even though he's been out of office for months and tech corporations have exiled him from the internet
>>
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>no one ITT owns an EV and knows how it's actually like in everyday situations
>everyone ITT thinks the regulations against ICE vehicles expand to commercially used vehicles (trucks etc) which they do not
>everyone ITT drives 500 miles continuously all day everyday while pissing in bottles
>no one ITT knows that companies such as BYD with their blade battery have prototypes for 500 miles range affordable EVs
>no one ITT has heard of Hyundais new 400V/800V fast charging solution that is hella fast AND affordable
>>
>>1641557
>They have to set aside CLASS resentments
No.
>>
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>>1641671
>when your protest was so effective that the elites started a race war to scatter your movement so you have to be a corporate whore because being anti-capitalist is white supremacy now
>>
>>1641666
>>the only way to save the world is to deliberately make everyone more miserable
>everyone
no, just gluttonous westerners who have been raping the earth for the past 150 years for their cheap plastic disposable crap and the expense of 80% of the global population who have to deal with slave labour, extreme poverty, and environmental disasters caused by a human induced climate catastrophe.
>>
>>1641678
>ching chong ding dong
https://youtube.com/watch?v=eOZ4pTQyndg
>>
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>>1641522
>politicians in the back pocket of big corpo trying to push their shitty expensive EV cars
what a shocker
>>
>invest in battery makers
>force the government to make every car require batteries

Think of how easy life is for these politicians while you toil away
>>
>>1641607
this is the best way to sneak in support for the railways
goes anywhere, in every weather, doesn't need to charge, doesn't reduce daily range by billing charging hours as work hours
>>1641612
>implying that modern cars won't solve that problem themselves
>>
>>1641557
My blood boils when I see these kind of articles. Even if these scare campaigns worked, getting America to go carbon neutral tomorrow would only slow down these things they’re predicting by a few years. So long as India and China do whatever the hell they want there’s nothing you can do to America to prevent this supposed apocalypse.

As for EVs, the bill will likely pass, but the date will keep getting pushed back for the next decade or two, whenever it gets to the point that ICEs are practically obsolete anyway.
>>
You don't need to ban ICE. A tax credit to make EVs more appealing. Along with money to build charging stations. Is all you need. EVs are nicer to drive. So just off set their current battery related extra costs, plus a little more to sweeten things to over come consumer hesitation.

The tax credit would phase out for more expensive cars. First by being less and less. Then eventually only the cheapest EVs get it. So new EV shitboxes out compete used ICE.
>>
>>1641624
Over half of the Europeans still use the car
Yes, public transport is that shitty
>>
>>1641830
>whenever it gets to the point that ICEs are practically obsolete anyway.
Never LOL
Chemical energy density will not be matched by any kind of battery
>>
>>1641866
. Motors are many times more efficient than ice. So you don't need as much energy stored.
>>
>>1641878
And the coping begins!
You fell for a meme, too bad. Learn from your mistakes for the next time.
>>
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Big think.
>>
Amazon’s starting to use those electric delivery trucks from Rivian.
If it makes the cagetrolls this upset I’m all for it.
>>
>>1641880
You're the coping one.
>>
>>1641887
God buy some tesla model Ys already. Buttpirate Pete needs to leave the stasi and their armored wagons behind.
>>
>>1641904
Yes yes, I'm the one claiming that I don't need what I can't have
Sure
>>
>>1641522
The erosion of tyres and brake pads, as well as road dust, are also major sources of PM. Changing from internal combustion engines to electric motors will not reduce these sources of particulates.
>>
>>1641522
Imagine thinking your 4000 pound ev with a 1 ton lithium ion battery is saving the planet. What a cult of morons
>>
>>1641911
True, but it significantly reduces emissions and reduces the power of oil companies in our policy so it’s an improvement.
Meanwhile we’re also building out rail and bike lanes.
>>
The retards in this thread are coping hard. Yes, you will drive an electric car. Yes, gas will be banned. Yes, we will force you to accept it
>>
>>1641962
>gas will be banned
LOL you wish
>>
>>1641962
I HIGHLY doubt the oil barons will let that happen.
Especially the ones in the middle east.
the US is the biggest importer of oil.

Fuck the commie shit.
>>
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>>1641962
>>
I’m enjoying the cagetroll meltdown.

This actually could have been avoided if we just built out rail and bike lanes and prevented all that car pollution from happening.
>>
Really don’t care about electric cars, still about 1000x better than riding a train. But it’s just a newer cabal just like oil and all of the same things will happen until we move on to the next thing.
>>
>>1642174
It's a new cabal that's contaminating fresh water to gather lithium.
The technology is extremely green as you can see, cartoon radioactive green.
>>
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>>1641962
>Yes, I am a small pp'd individual who loves fear mongering fantasies
>>
>>1642174
>>1642177
Cagetroll delusions always amuse me.
>>
>>1642230
>implying there isn't big money in mining
Ahh my sweet summer child, you have a lot to learn
>>
>>1642177
Lithium mining is slurry mining and evaporate ponds. It is quite harmless.

Take your message, schizo.
>>
>>1641522
EVs don't need that kind of help, they are already better for most people, so they will eventually phase out ICE vehicles on merit alone. ICE cars would still have narrow niches that EVs can't fill.
>>
>>1641830
China has the world's leading EV industry. They have as a national-level goal being the biggest users of EVs, and the leading supplier of EVs to the world.
>>
>>1641710
Truth. Won't somebody think of the small businesses in the oil and automotive industries?
>>
>>1642289
Most China EVs have worse performance than the first Nissan LEAF.
>>
>>1642290
All the rich people and their wall street fronts are investing in "green energy". While also lobbying and donating to the governments to make it happen. So they can continue getting rich off tax payers.
>>
>>1642290
Shhh, don’t tel him that renewables create more jobs than fossil fuels. It would shatter his delicate worldview.
>>
>>1642318
Only because it is not a mature market. Plus a lot if those jobs are seasonal and migrant.

Re Ginna nuclear power plant has 700 employees every day. A windmill or solar farm has no regular employees once built.
>>
>>1642318
>Shhh, don’t tel him that renewables create more jobs than fossil fuels.
I already have a stable job. Why would I give a shit about this? All it does to me is forces me to pay for an expensive car that I didn't ask for. If you want to force a shit policy like this then also force car companies to make affordable EV cars. I'm not paying $30k+ just so your corpo friends stock value goes up.
>>
>>1642327
The average new car bought costs $40,000 in America and the average used costs $27,000. Volkswagen plans on selling its crossover for $35,000 next year. Electric cars are a handful of years ahead of cost parity, at least 5-7 years before 2035
>>
>>1642272
Yes, sure, using the 0.05% of this planet that is the only absolutely essential thing to live to gather lithium is really environmentally healthy
>>
>>1642346
Compared to making the planet hotter forever and choking ourselves out in the millions, with particulate pollution, it's a massive step up. Most lithium mining happens in the middle of nowhere in Australia
>>
>>1642347
>he believes those doomsday theories
>calls others schizo
LMAO
>>
>>1642345
>The average new car bought costs $40,000 in America
Lol not even close, you're about 15k off
>>
>>1642350
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/average-new-car-price-2020/
>>
>>1642347
Oh BTW
EVs worsen the particulate pollution. They destroy the rubber from the wheels and brake pads, which are the origin of the particulate matter, not the exhaust.
>>
>>1642349
You're a irredeemable idiot if you think global warming is fake and everyone around you thinks you're a massive retard.
>>1642352
EVs have regenerative breaking. Also, EV crossovers still only weigh the same as entry level pickup trucks.
>>
>>1642351
>new
>Automobile sales stats show that a total of 1,144,279 new cars were sold in January 2020.
>US used car sales statistics show that there were 40.42 million used cars sold in 2018.
Go get proper stats next time, retard.

>>1642353
You're a massive retard. Period. A fucking doomsday cultist that fell for the memes.
And regenerative braking is bullshit you try to slap on to cope, but the reality is EVs create more particulate matter from the brakes, and all of them are excessively heavy for their size.
>>
>>1642357
How many wrong about the price, dumbfuck? The used car price is still over $27,000. With an American Federal rebate a entry level VW ID4 costs less than 30k as of next year. How exactly is that unaffordable? How is that anything but an extremely good sign about the long term affordability of electric car? Electric cars cost +100k 10 years ago to go 300 miles

Also, yes you're fucking idiot that tries to create whatever lame excuse to justify your retarded headcanon
>>
>>1642358
>How many wrong about the price, dumbfuck?
Chink lithium shill detected
Go fuck yourself chang, get the fuck out of australia
>>
>>1642358
You can't see that the used car market has three times the volume, moron? Your retarded pricing is skewed as fuck, because 3/4 of the people don't buy new.
>>
File deleted.
>>1642359
>lithium shill
Yeah, big lithium is coming for you. It's a conspiracy meant to turn you into a tranny
>>
>>1642362
Opposed to the big oil you brainlets cry about all day?
Protip: They're the same scum
>>
>>1642362
BTW, if you want to find who is really fucking over the air quality, look no further than China, everyone else reduced their emissions
>muh per capita
no
>>
>>1642368
Europe and the US are responsible for like 80% of all historical emissions. I dont understand why Americans are so fucking dense.
>CHINA CHINA CHINA
So if its guarenteed the world heats up by 2 Celsius, is that a good reason to make it significantly worse and make sure it hits 4 degrees?
>>
>>1642371
China currently burns as much coal as the rest of the world combined.
>>
>>1642371
>historical emissions
I don't give a single fuck
China is the one pumping more and more CO2 every day it passes.
You want to lower CO2 emissions? Nuke China.
>>
>>1642375
Speaking of China
It's the country with the most widespread EVs, it also happens to be one of the countries most contaminated by PM2.5
>>
>>1641522
This would only be based if he banned cages altogether. The automobile experiment is over.
>>1641660
They think of the future, but not my future. I want a civilization ruled by my own people, a place for a real nation to exist. But whatever, no one cares anymore. I'm a political dinosaur at this point. I probably hate republicans more than I hate leftists, liberals, or any other group.
>>
>>1642379
China has tons of wood fires in urban areas, tons of shitty soviet designed diesels with no emissions control, and tons of shifty unfiltered coal power plants
>>
>>1642384
So you're saying that the planet should be busting Chinas ass to reduce emissions and not forcing me to use a gimped method of transportation so a politician can feel good about doing absolutely nothing useful?
>>
>>1642385
No we should focus all our energy on becoming a multi planet space faring civilization and stop giving a fuck about just one planet
>>
>>1642387
Tell that to the retarded politicians still hell bent on wasting all their money "saving" everyone but their countrymen, all the shit wasted on foreigner parasites should be focused on science.
>>
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>>1642318
>Shhh, don’t tel him that renewables create more jobs than fossil fuels.
In another words renewables jobs are less productive than fossil fuels jobs.
>>
>>1642347
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kGB5MMIAVA
>>
>>1642403
Just give up that steady unionized 9to5 driving a dump truck at a coal mine for six figures. Go get a green job installing Chinese solar panels on roof tops for $15 a hour.
>>
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>>1642345
Even if the numbers are right, your argument is that the *average* used car is only $8,000 cheaper than the *cheapest* electric car?
>>
>>1642345
Most crossovers and sedans don't cost $27,000 brand new. If the average used price is really $27,000 it's because everyone's buying giant SUVs and trucks, and they won't have the slightest interest in your shitty little electric cuckwagons.
>>
>>1642406
why can solar panel installers unionize as well?
>>
>>1642406
You mean a dying industry that gives you literal ass cancer with almost jobs to begin with.
>>
>>1641522
Better yet: Ban all personal vehicles which go faster than 30mph.
>>
>>1642406
>>1642430
Meanwhile the currently small wind industry supports professionals, tradesmen, industrial workers and technicians
>Wind: USEER found that the wind power industry provided 111,166 jobs in 2018, increasing four percent from 2017. USEER categorizes these jobs as 33 percent construction, 24 percent professional services, and 24 percent manufacturing.
>turbine service technicians, which was the second-fastest growing occupation across the entire economy in 2018.
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-jobs-in-renewable-energy-energy-efficiency-and-resilience-2019#3
>>
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>>1642430
Hmmm, I wonder if something else unrelated to your ecofascist narrative was happening in early 2020 that could've contributed to that huge dropoff.
>>
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>>1642416
Yes and 10 years they cost $110,000. The price of batteries continues to march downwards and projections have them falling to $60 per kwh by 2030. It's generally considered that $100kwh would bring price parity with gas
>>
>>1642435
>projections
>2030
k, keep me posted
>>
>>1642434
Cope. Coal is a meme industry that barely employees anyone. It's downturn is long term and every year more local coal plants shutter. Even coal unions see the obvious, brainlet
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/mine-workers-union-endorses-biden-energy-policies-exchange-job-training-n1264490
>>
Cagetrolls on suicide watch again.

Lol
>>
>>1642438
$100/kwh is already happening, just need to scale a bit more
https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-cited-below-100-kwh-for-the-first-time-in-2020-while-market-average-sits-at-137-kwh/
>>
>>1642425
He doesn’t have an answer, he’s just talking out of his ass as all poltards do.
Renewables create more (and better) jobs than fossil fuels.
>>
>>1642435
Hasn’t the price of batteries dropped like 80% in the last 6 years?
I wonder if the oil companies will have any money left to hire shills to shit up transportation boards in a few years.
>>
>>1642445
That's the problem with these shills, they do it for free. They're just dumb
>>
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Effective shilling:
>Look at our amazing product! Here are all the reasons why it will make your life better than the old version!

Terrible shilling:
>YES IT'S WORSE AND MORE EXPENSIVE THAN WHAT YOU HAVE NOW BUT FUCK YOU YOU'RE BUYING IT OR ELSE
>>
>>1642453
And being retard is believing in a boogeyman that's coming to steal your existing gas cars
>>
>>1642456
>>1641522
>ban the sale of cars and light trucks that emit greenhouse gases by 2035

Other than your bullshit shill "projections" there is no reason to believe that electric cars will catch up to gas cars by 2035, either functionally or price-wise, or that there will be the necessary infrastructure to support them.
>>
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>>1642462
>battery prices drop $1000 per kwh in 10 years
>need to drop another $30 to reach cost parity
>*hits tailpipe exhaust*
>hurrrr bullshit projections, durrrrrrrrr shilllllllllll never happening
>>
>>1642464
>the reason they don't want my product is because I haven't insulted them enough yet
>let's get government to ban our competitors so if we do somehow manage to create a viable product someday people will have no choice but to buy it

If price was the only factor everyone would drive a Yaris. You still have to build like ten billion charging stations and figure out how to charge the things in less than a day. Until you do that electric cars will still be objectively less practical and no one will voluntarily buy them, even for a lower sticker price.
>>
>>1642441
It only took 30/40 years and the Trump presidency for democrats to dial back their neo lib ass hattery
>>
>>1642465
Welcome to Biden Theory. 500,000 level 3 charging stations. People drive 25 miles per day on average. The average suburban family will just be plugging into walls overnight or installing level 2 chargers.
https://grist.org/energy/biden-wants-to-build-500000-ev-charging-stations-where-will-they-all-go/
>>
>>1642475
>wants
LMAO
>>
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>>1642475
>politician makes bullshit promises that will never happen to keep his base happy
k, keep me posted

>The average suburban family will just be plugging into walls overnight or installing level 2 chargers.
>you're already spending an extra $20 grand for your governmentally-mandated new car, what's another $2,000 for some unnecessary construction work?
And for the hundred million drivers who don't have a garage? Does Dementia Joe's plan also include paying to tear up and rebuild every parking lot in the country in 15 years? Or will he be relying on the goodwill of private citizens and landlords to shoulder that burden?
>>
>>1642479
>>1642480
Cope and keep moving the goalposts, you guys are on a full blown sprint at this point.
>>
>>1642483
Moving what goalpost?
I'm laughing at someone so absolutely retarded that believes the bullshit that comes out of any politicians mouth.
>>
>>1642385
China's share of emissions is close to its share of world population. The West are the places with disproportionately high Carbon emissions.
>>1642375
China has four times the population of the US, but not even double the emissions. The problem is not solely with them.
>>
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>>1642305
This fake anti-corporate attitude when it comes to shilling for the most corporate of interests never ceases to be funny.
>fellow citizen, I too am worried about Big Green
>>
>>1641650
Stop bodyshaming, you ableist chud.
>>
>>1642503
China loves to cherry pick numbers. They should release a measure carbon emissions per capita according only to people living in tier-1 cities. That's the goal, anyway.
>>
>>1642503
>China's share of emissions is close to its share of world population.
Pretty sure the environment doesn't know or care about 'per capita' emissions

>>1642507
He's right though. Subsidies for fossil fuels have declined over the last decade whereas subsidies for green energy have increased
>>
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>>1642441
>productivity bad
>>
>>1641522
obviously good policy but far too late
>>
>>1642573
>fewer jobs
>gives you ass cancer
>MORE expensive electricity
Shills on suicide watch
>>
>>1642671
here is how you can make even more jobs.
>>1642403
>>
>>1642536
>Pretty sure the environment doesn't know or care about 'per capita' emissions
The West has a minority of the population and yet did the majority of emissions that's driving climate change, so obviously "our population is small, it's the fault of those foreigners" doesn't work. Even if emissions were rationed out, China would have to cut back slightly; the West would have to cut back a lot.
>subsidies
Subsidies for fossil fuels vastly outweigh those for green energy globally. Subsidies for green technologies are meant to help mature emerging technologies and achieve climate performance in advance of what the market would deliver. Subsidies for fossil fuels are meant to what, encourage consumption?
>>
>>1641911
>Changing from internal combustion engines to electric motors will not reduce these sources of particulates.
Yes, it will reduce. It just won't eliminate.
With an electric motor in the vehicle, you can turn it into a generator, and use that as a brake to slow you down and regenerate power at the same time. This is why Tesla owners complain about their brake disks rusting through, because they don't even use the brakes hard enough to even generate the temperatures high enough to prevent the rust from building up. The VW ID.3 even uses drum brakes for the rear axle because the motor at the rear is so effective at braking normally, the drum brakes hardly need to do any work, and any particulate is contained, and rusting is prevented.

As for tyre particulate, that's much more due to sudden changes in torque applied to the tyres. This is most notable in manual transmission cars, as most users don't really care much about being overly gentle with the clutch when shifting up or down. Plus engine braking also causes quite a bit of wear. Automatic transmission cars which feature either a CVT or a torque converter are way better for tyre wear and tyre particulate than manuals, as there is no sudden change in torque to the wheels.
EVs are commonly praised for their instant torque performance, though this... depends on how violently you use the car. If you drive the car sensibly on roads and the torque mapping is mapped well, then EVs generate the least amount of tyre wear and associated particulate.
Total elimination of particulate is impossible... but the way I see it... nothing seems to not generate particulate... unless you plan to walk or ride a horse. Bicycles still generate particulate from their brakes and tyres, trains still generate particulate from their brakes and from their wheels... and I suppose the worst offenders for particulate matter are busses, due to how much weight it has, and the forces that are applied to the brakes and tyres.
>>
>>1642406
You understand the unions could just...do the new jobs, right?
>>
>>1641642
Early Tesla roadsters are needing new batteries after 12 years.
>>
>>1641641
"Suddenly we’ll see the end of (sub)urban sprawl and an increase in public transportation quality and quantity."

>Streets filled with miserable people sharing disease in buses
>Competition for already expensive city housing increases
>>
>>1642824
Telling 30 to 50 year olds to get a new job. Where they're essentially starting over their careers. In another state, for less pay, and higher cost of living.

See that's how the GOP manages to bad faith themselves as working class
>>
>>1642864
Yeah, but that was tesla throwing laptop cells in a plastic box in the back of a lotus. No cooling and less sophisticated energy management.
>>
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>>1642791
>The West has a minority of the population and yet did the majority of emissions that's driving climate change
It's all so tiresome
>>
>>1641962
You do realize that you can drive practically any gasoline car made in the last 20 years on straight ethanol and they can be easily converted to natural/bio gas? And diesels can be ran on cleaned cooking oil. Even if fossil fuels get banned ICE ain't going anywhere.
>>
you dumb fucks just fake news'd yourselves

"While the letter urges a transition to entirely zero-emission vehicles by that date, it does not specifically call for the elimination of gasoline-powered vehicles."

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/21/989463166/governors-urge-biden-to-order-100-zero-emission-car-sales-by-2035#:~:text=Environment-,Governors%20Urge%20Biden%20To%20Order%20100%25%20Zero,Emission%20Car%20Sales%20By%202035&text=via%20Getty%20Images-,Electric%20vehicles%20at%20a%20charging%20station%20last%20year%20in%20San,2035%20be%20zero%2Demission%20vehicles.


Also every time this shit has been brought up it's always pointed out that these potential "bans" are for pure ICE vehicles only. Hybrids wouldn't be banned
>>
>>1642816
>engine braking ICE bad
>engine braking EV good
>big torque on ICE bad
>big torque on EV not bad
You can't make this shit up

>if you drive them sensibly
What happened to driving that much smaller and lighter automatic ICE car as gently?

>muh brake dust
Learn some predictive driving. The brakes on my automatic car have issues with rust because I brake so seldomly.
>>
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>>1641673
>>
>>1642671
Renewables create more jobs and provide cheaper electricity than fossil fuels.

And their price is always dropping.
>>
>>1642816
>As for tyre particulate, that's much more due to sudden changes in torque applied to the tyres.
Main perk of ICE when it comes it tyre particulates is that ICE gobbles in much air, it goes through air filters and tyre particulates are filtered. EV don't have such air consumption. It can be fixed with regulation that mandates volumes of air to filter according to EV battery capacity and motor power.
>if you shit take out your shit
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>>1643036
>provide cheaper electricity than fossil fuels.
Tell this to Germany electricity price vs China.
>>
I actually just made this thread because I knew it would make the tourists from /pol/ screech autistically. They take the damn bait every time, it’s hilarious.
>>
>>1643068
No need to. The fact is that renewables provide cheaper energy and create more jobs. None of your hysterics change that.
>>
>>1643069
You are not OP.
>>
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>>1643071
>Germany 30 cents
>China 8 cents
>Muh renewables
you are not tricking anyone ding ding
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>>1643074
As if Germany is any better
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>>1643084
Buy our rare earth ching chong magnets! Very good! Rate five stars pls!
>>
>>1642971
What's the problem with that? It's moving towards a more rational allocation of the carbon budget. If everyone says "well our emissions aren't the problem, it's yours" then no progress would be made. The focus needs to be on maturing the technologies for a low-emissions high standard of living, which would ultimately benefit everyone.
>>
>>1643068
electricity is cheap in germany but the grid charges are 3-4x the price per kwh
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>>1643186
Good. Then disconnect from the grid and go buy (((cheap ))) electricity directly from the plant.
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>>1643152
>If everyone says "well our emissions aren't the problem, it's yours" then no progress would be made.
Who cares what they say. Ban fossil fuels and plastics for China and rest of Asia and Africa. Carbon emissions reduced 3 times, dangerous pollution reduced 20 times. This is must step for sustainable green development.
>>
Luv me bikes
Luv me truck
Ate commies
Simple as.
>>
What’s wrong with solar?
It’s cheaper than coal and creates more jobs.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/solar-is-now-cheapest-electricity-in-history-confirms-iea
>>
>>1643629
Solar panel are mostly producted in China. To produce a solar panel you need specific minerals that are limited in quantity, so you can't make them forever.
Since China don't give a lot of shit about how they produce their energies and how they get the materials to produce a solar panel, you have to use it for 30 years to have an ecological benefit over its cost (the pollution emitted to create it). A solar panel lifespan is ~ 30 years.

Then even if you solve that by producing solar panel on your country and take care of how it's produced, the amount of energy it produces varies a lot from different factors that you can't control : cycle of day/night, weather, seasons and also your location.
Another problem is space. If a country wants enough solar panel, it will needs a lot of space, so it means destroying nature & biodiversity and soil artificialisation.

Then you got a last problem and a big one. Solar energy is something that isn't produced when you want like hydraulic, carbon or nuclear, which means you need to store it. Even if we could eventually store it in a not very efficient way, it would cost a lot. Both in money but also in raw materials.

With wind turbines you got more or less the same issues.
>>
>>1643640
>hydraulic, carbon or nuclear
I meant coal
>>
Has anyone ever used one of the Indian or Chinese electric cars? You can get them for 10k , just wonder if they are actually any good?
>>
>>1641678
And a ching chong ping pong to you to, Chang
>>
>>1641581
>you oppose corporocommie take over of private industry so I can’t ride choo choo
>>
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I recall hearing thorium reactors are a good idea as they don't produce carbon emissions and they make a fuck ton of energy and the thorium cant be weaponized and if dropped in water completely neutralizes it.
yet for some reason everyone thinks its tubs of green glowing goo. and highly opposes it even though this is the best bet for energy
wtf
>>
>>1643660
They are not highway capable. They're shifty micro city cars.
>>
>>1643736
Because it's wildly expensive to build those systems. If reactor designs became standardized and repeatably produced, which is not how it works now, then the price could come down and be more economically competitive. But as it stands, it's much cheaper and easier for a utility to build equivalent capacity using gas, wind, and solar. There's no economic incentive for them to pursue thorium molten salt reactors.

Don't get me wrong, they are a good idea and the world should be pursuing advanced nuclear generation more, but it's understandable even just from a business perspective why there isn't more interest in it.
>>
>>1643640
This post is full of absolute bullshit. So many factually incorrect claims to the point that it has to be believed that you're intentionally lying.
>>
>>1643640
Should we go point by point through how egregiously fucking wrong you are on every point here? Or do you just want to admit right now that you're a huge fucking cunt that's literally just making shit up?
>>
>>1643760
>So many factually incorrect claims to the point that it has to be believed that you're intentionally lying.
>>1643763
>Should we go point by point through how egregiously fucking wrong you are on every point here?

Why didn't you list them
>>
>>1643640
Are all solar panels produced in China?
Why not just make the solar panels here?

Also I don’t see how it takes up an unreasonable amount of space. The total space needed to power the whole country isn’t very big.
Also the “YOU CANT POWER WITH SOLAR WHEN ITS NIGHT” argument is retarded. No one said you have to use exclusively solar all the time. Just add solar to the grid because it’s cheaper than coal and creates more jobs.
>>
>>1643760
Yeah I noticed that too.
This guy will write long posts of fallacy after fallacy, I think he’s just trolling.
>>
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>>1643640
>>1643760
>>1643763
>>1643930
>>1643941
>>1643942
Here's a course about renewable energies and their uses in France and Europe, their efficiency etc. His other courses are great and must be seen to understand his point. English subs are available

https://youtu.be/Z4teA8ciuRU?list=PLMDQXkItOZ4II_sYvh0BevIBwmm7fvuHL
>>
>>1643941
>>1643640
Solar panels aren't a magical solution that will fix everything. However they're part of the solution. We already have enough space for plenty of solar panels. You can mount solar panels to rooftops easily. Even if they're for nothing else than powering AC during summer months and maybe some small extra electricity on top of that it's still vastly better than anything fossil.

Obviously with solar you need either batteries (for total off-grid solutions) or some steady production and ability to add more when solar doesn't provide energy.
>>
>>1643941
There are massive solar panel factories already operating in the US with plans to expand them and build more.
>>
>>1643930
Why didn't you just admit that you're a syphilitic lying sociopath?
>>
>>1643941
top 10 producers of solar panels are chineses iirc
We can make them here but it won't be as cheap ($). But it would be better in a lot of way (ecologically and economically since it gives jobs)

The issue with non controllable energies is that you need controllable energy at the same time that can gives energy when you need it and not when the weather is okay with you. It's part of the solution but I'm not sure it can be a long term solution since we can make it for cheap thx to fossil energies (to extract raw material and produce them), and raw material used in solar panel are in finite quantity and it's needed in other industries. It would be interesting to have some paper trying to estimate all of that.
>>
>>1644062
>>1643941
>Also I don’t see how it takes up an unreasonable amount of space. The total space needed to power the whole country isn’t very big.
Also, the issue with space used by solar panels and wind turbines is among other things the social acceptance of them. Are local populations okay with deforesting / removing crops to have farms of solar panels ? In various places in my country it became common to see cities that forbid constructions of wind turbines for that reason for example. (both on land & water). I don't remember if that happened with solar, but I wouldn't be surprised.
>>
>>1644051
Yeah we had even more before Trump took office too.
Plus the “argument” about them taking up space is bullshit. You can stick solar panels on buildings and it’s not like they take up more space than coal mines.

This schizo is just spewing shit.
>>
Lol
You could just stick solar panels over some parking lots and power half of Houston
>>
>>1644064
There are literally zero places in the US that require defirestion or destroying cropland in order to build wind turbines and install solar panels.

Chug bleach, shit stain.
>>
>>1644062
Are you intentionally ignorant as fuck or does it just come naturally to you? There are mountains of studies that prove solar and wind are already the cheapest form of net new energy everywhere in the US and over a large and rapidly increasing percentage of the entire world. There are already places where building *new* solar or wind is cheaper than contuing to operate *existing* fossil fuel plants -- and this will become the norm almost everywhere on earth this decade.
>>
>>1644090
They just put them in the desert or sage brush country. Fencing off hundres or more acres of land. that would be migration or grazing land to wild life.
>>
>>1644077
Come to Wyoming. See thousands of wind mills in native grasslands. See their blinking red lights all night long. As you try to enjoy some nature in near by mountains.
>>
>>1644074
Costs more to put solar over existing improvements.
>>
>>1644123
And yet it still has a lower lifetime cost and better ROI than the alternative.
>>
>>1644121
But hey, no problem that you have massive open pit coal mines and oil and gas wells polluting the living fuck out of the air and water!
>>
>>1644119
Are you motherfucking retarded? Are you actually unaware of how utility scale solar has been built or are you just pretending?
>>
>>1643203
well try doing that with fossil fuels kek
nigger
>>
>>1644193
>massive open pit coal mines
They are miniscule in area comparing to the wind farms. Without google help you are not going to find one, when fucking windmills are everywhere.
>>
>>1641541
Honestly this. If they want to make an impactful change than instead of just banning cars they need to make electric car chargers faster (I’m saying like 5 minutes to refill the battery) have them be more common (requiring most major gas station chains to have them) and do a shit load of subsidies for R&D on better EV batteries. And also electrify some Amtrak Corridors, like SF-LA, Chicago-Detroit, and KC-STL.
>>
>>1644194
I see that shit every day. Hundreds of acres of pronghorn, deer, and Elk grazing land fenced off.
>>
>>1644194
He’s just lying. You’ll notice poltards are always disingenuous.
>>
>>1645646
uff, you are severely retarded and likely received a burger education if you need google to find an open pit coal mine
>>
>>1646336
You're wrong.
>>
>>1645654
>And also electrify some Amtrak Corridors, like SF-LA, Chicago-Detroit, and KC-STL.
Why?
>>
>>1642432
Wow! Who would have guessed more jobs appear in energy production sectors that get the most subsidies from the government?
>>
What the hell is wrong with you commies?
>>
>>1641670
Tbh EVs are clearly the future for the mass market and the infrastructure is coming
Politicians don’t have the capability or the balls to totally ban ICE’s anyway
They will just slowly become a product for hobby enthusiasts/rural people primarily
>>
>muh CO2 emissions
Whatever
Bring back Eocene era hothouse earth
>>
>>1641522
So has anyone addressed what "high-road jobs" actually means? Sounds like empty marketing to me
>>
>>1646465
Lol like any reporter would ask a question like that
>>
>>1645835
What, you think we are trying to save nature?
No
We only care about posturing
>>
Good, less power for the oil lobby.
>>
>>1641522
far left retards make insane, expensive demands they won't actually have to pay for, news at 11
>>
>>1646383
butte
>>
>>1642441
This desu. Coal plants have been closing around the country for years. Anyone who thinks coal is cost competitive doesn’t know the industry.
And coal jobs suck ass anyway.
>>
>>1641673
>when your woke progressivesim is just unadulterated wall street and CIA propaganda but its OK because you are dismantling white supremacy
>>
>>1646610
>Coal plants have been closing around the country for years.
Yes, power plants have service lifetimes
> Anyone who thinks coal is cost competitive doesn’t know the industry.
It's cheaper than unsubsidized solar/wind
>And coal jobs suck ass anyway.
Nope. Very high paying, typically unionized at all levels (mining, transportation, generation)
>>
>>1646759
Solar and wind are cheaper than coal even without subsidy, dingus.
>>
>>1646774
>Source: Trust me dude
>>
>In a base comparison, without taking into account subsidies, fuel prices or carbon pricing, utility-scale solar, both thin-film and crystalline silicon, as well as wind have the lowest LCOE of all sources considered. Utility-scale crystalline silicon PV comes in anywhere from $42 to $31/MWh, while utility-scale thin-film PV ranges from $38 to $29 and utility-scale wind registers the lowest possible LCOE over the largest range, from $54 to $26/MWh.

>For comparison, under these same criteria, gas peaking comes in at $198 to $151/MWh, nuclear is $198 to $129/MWh, coal is $159 to $65/MWh and gas combined cycle is $73 to $ 44/MWh.

Wow, utility solar is way cheaper than coal, even without subsidy.
And it's only getting cheaper from here.

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/10/23/its-cheaper-to-build-new-solar-than-it-is-to-operate-coal-plants/
>>
>>1647160
How much extra would Americans need to pay if carbon pricing was implemented? Ball park figure?
>>
>>1647160
>Literal trade magazine promoted its own trade
Keep trying, shill
>>
>>1647167
The trade magazine just reported the study, you can find the study in a variety of publications.

Nice try shill.
>>
>>1647162
Carbon pricing is pretty much pointless now. They should have do e it 20 years ago, but starting it now wouldn't have any real net positive effect. The economics of different generation sources is taking care of it itself at this point.
>>
>>1646549
Look at this fucking faggots that doesn't understand that electric cars will be cheaper than their gas counterparts in the next 4 years, not to mention the lower cost of operating and maintaining them.
>>
>>1645646
Wildly fucking false. If you actually believe this, you need to immediately shoot yourself in the head.
>>
>>1645835
This is not even close to true. Why would you lie so lazily?
>>
>>1647184
So you live in Sweetwater County, Wyoming?
>>
>>1647183
He's right
>>
>>1641522
>cars and light trucks
>light trucks
Oh well. Heavy trucks it is then.
Pic telated sold off the dealer lot like hot cakes when Obama made these noises.
>>
>>1647294
lost pic
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>>1641678
Okay Chang I bet your thousands of coal power plants and literal concentration camps are real eco friendly
>>
>>1641911
hmmmmmmm almost as if this is all in the name of wokeness
>>
>>1641911
Those are a fraction of a percent of the emissions from tailpipes and don't stay in the air anywhere near as long. Stop believing stupid bullshit.
>>
>>1647214
He (you) are in fact completely fucking wrong. Imagine claiming that open pit coal mines are so tiny that you can't even find them.





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