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These are three of London's eighteen railway stations: Euston, in yellow; St. Pancras International, in green; and King's Cross, in red. In summary:>Euston - the country's busiest passenger terminal, and mainly handles traffic to the north-west.>St. Pancras - Seventh busiest station in London, and its international train terminus; also handling domestic passengers from the Midlands and commuter traffic from the south-east.>King's Cross - Eighth busiest station in London, and handles traffic from the north (Yorkshire, Tyneside, Scotland).>EUS has its own London Underground connection; STP and KGX also interchange with the London Underground via a shared megacomplex.See, the problem is - Euston will be London's terminus for the domestic High Speed 2 railway. However, because of costs (of course), and the borough of Camden complaining about construction works, High Speed 2 will not directly connect with the existing High Speed 1 infrastructure that connects to St. Pancras (i.e. the Channel Tunnel Rail Link). So - what do you think is the best solution for passenger interchange between HS1 and HS2?
>>1612799Don't build it and instead put the money into revamping the existing rail network and opening up closed branchlines.
>>1612806A little late now, although i'm inclined to agree. Still, I'm interested in peoples' ideas for could-have-beens and should-have-beens, especially given the complexity of the area; EUS and STP are only ~600m apart, so a short walk; but, international passengers will of course have heavy baggage and aren't going to want to drag it along a major London road for their onward connection to Birmingham, Manchester, Scotland...One of the proposals was for EUS/STP/KGX to merge into a single gigantic underground megacomplex, so there'd be a single interchange with domestic rail, HS1, HS2, the Underground, and Crossrail. Pie in the sky stuff, but still.
>>1612799Tell Camden to go fuck themselves.
>>1612806>revamping the existing rail networkThat's what this is trying to set the scene for. >opening up closed branchlinesThey (both passengers and trains) need to go somewhere.
>>1612799>solution for passenger interchangeDo nothing? Not going to be cost effective until more can done after >>1612820. HS2 alone can't really justify building a new system, unless you can group it with other causes for a bigger project. >High Speed 2 will not directly connect with the existing High Speed 1 infrastructureThis is what should be solved later.
The existing infrastructure between HS2 and HS1 currently carries the Overground, so to rebuild and embiggen what's already there would mean knocking down about 200 homes and cutting Camden off from a vital transport artery for six, seven years. I mean it'd be nice to crush the hipsters and tourists underfoot, but it'd be like the Westway all over again.Could they not simply have ignored Euston and tunnelled further along to Stratford International instead? It'd make the name more accurate and would provide a direct HS2 -> HS1 interchange
>>1612835They could start by building Old Oak Common Lane Station and re-opening -- re-quadrupling North London Line (also improves Camden Road West Junction) to see how passengers and Camden receives it. Camden Highline is wasteful stupid. Why do you want a long duplicated section and an interchange there?
Many different things that COULD happen (via Heathrow and Gatwick, or via a bit of the line from Willesden to the HS1 portal outside St Pancras and down to Stratford Intl) but if is another question
>>1612838>Why do you want a long duplicated section and an interchange there?Because St Pancras has no further room to expand. Stratford International, however, is currently a big useless misnamed ghost town, with capacity to spare - the *only* trains that currently serve the station are the Javelins carrying commuters from dormitory towns in Kent, ferrying them onward via the DLR.Furthermore, Stratford International will have customs, security etc. there in place already, as it's the backup for if there's trouble at St Pancras. So assuming it's possible to go from Birmingham to Paris by linking HS2 to HS1, you don't need to build & maintain an international border force at every HS2 station; rather, HS2 feeds into Stratford, passengers complete international border processes there, and then interchange with Eurostar (or Thalys, or DB...)
galaxy brain: join the Shengen area *then* build a HS2->HS1 link. step on a train at Oldham, and then a few hours & a few comfortable interchanges later you're having your pocket picked at Gare du Nord
>>1612851>Furthermore, Stratford International will have customs, security etc. there in place already, as it's the backup for if there's trouble at St Pancras. So assuming it's possible to go from Birmingham to Paris by linking HS2 to HS1, you don't need to build & maintain an international border force at every HS2 station; rather, HS2 feeds into Stratford, passengers complete international border processes there, and then interchange with Eurostar (or Thalys, or DB...)That's just as big of a pain in the arse as the 5 min walk from Euston - St Pancras and way way less cost effective. You'd need designated HS2 trains that solely pick up these passengers and then take them away from EUS. Nightmare for operations and costs.
>>1612851I understand the station comparison. Both could be possible, since I'm concerned about losing HS1 and HS2 London service frequency or capacity to HS1--HS2, while the largest station should be able to expect an international service. I mainly doubt a long tunnel with Stratford International. The original link is a short single-track connector. East of Old Oak Common Station, it could somehow use existing lines to route through Stratford International. A more massive example, on top of Crossrail 2 (providing a Euston-St.Pancras Station, and relieving existing lines), HS2 could share and even quadruple the central section, further connecting additional service with the west and northwest (eg re-align Crossrail 1's Watford Junction branch)
Birmingham to Paris won't attract many people while easyjet is still so cheap.London to Paris isn't that busy really either
>>1612958Pretty much. Plus when I go to the continent, I prefer to drive because I enjoy the ferry and I like going to little villages and towns and historical sites all over the place rather than be stuck in the cities for the whole time.
demolish the commie blocks in between
rip out kensignton and turn it into london central stationexecute anyone who disagreesmake britian into a republic alreadythis requires corbyn pm
gee, if only there were some brand new railway being built which stopped at both HS1 and HS2 stations while also being faster than the tube...
>However, because of costs (of course), and the borough of Camden complaining about construction works,That's dumb dude. HSR is for the whole country, why should one borough dictate it just because of temporary construction?
>>1612799>Euston - the country's busiest passenger terminal,Victoria would like a word with you.
>>1613038God I fucking hope CrossLizPurp absorbs the Romford-Upminster Overground shuttle. That has no right to exist as an Overground line
Why not just tunnel HS2 and create a terminal in the space underneath the British Library? You could then have walking connections (or, hell, airport-style travelators) to St Pancras for HS1, with space for border control
>>1613145London is a swiss cheese mess, you can't just point places in a map and try to build over or under it>The area shaded green and labelled F represents the land and subsoil ownership of the British Library; areas shaded red and labelled A represent the subsoil ownership of London Underground for the presence of its infrastructure; and the area shaded yellow, labelled G, represents land, airspace, and subsoil forming Euston Road.>https://www.londonreconnections.com/2021/covenants-easements-wayleaves-transport-asset-interface-register-part-2/
>>1612810>One of the proposals was for EUS/STP/KGX to merge into a single gigantic underground megacomplex, so there'd be a single interchange with domestic rail, HS1, HS2, the Underground, and CrossrailThis would probably be the best option, it's basically what Paris did to create several giant sprawling underground stations linking tons of lines right in the middle of the city. The problem is, it'd take an enormous investment, a hell of a long time to build, and even worse, EUS and STP actually aren't that close to each other to begin with, so it'd truly be a massive project.But all of the alternatives are worse, or outright impossible.
I don't know bros thinking about HS2 just stresses me out, I have no idea what's right or wrong. I wish Beeching had never happened, I wish Beeching had never happened.
>>1613058oh hi Geoff
>>1613216the disgust at knocking down Euston indirectly saved St Pancras, and arguably kickstarted an architectural preservation movement. sometimes you need to lose things to value what you have
>>1613040>HSR is for the whole countryAahahahahahahahaha no, it's for London.
What if an above-ground monorail, whisking passengers between Euston and St Pancras with speed and with splendid ease.
>>1613218I wish I was Geoff...
>>1613222>the disgust at knocking down Euston indirectly saved St Pancrasthey still let it go pretty much derelict.
>>1613367well that's exactly what Geoff would say, Geoff
>>1613388i know what you mean, but there's a difference between preserving architecture and preserving purpose. i suppose we're lucky that the powers that be decided to keep st. pancras a functional railway station - and of course with hindsight we know that to have been a good, correct decision - rather than have been redeveloped into oligarch flats or office space or something
>>1612810>>1613206Crossrail 2 (sorry, Winston Line) was planned to link Euston and St Pancras into one station, however due to the delays in CrossElizPurpRail 1 its going to take a while
>>1613702God just give all London lines to LT already.
>>1613702Guessing Crossrail 3, the [PM at time of construction] Line will run diagonally from Luton and Watford to Bromley and Sevenoaks, right?
Why not build HS2 phase 4 downward from Scotland? Inverness-Aberdeen-Dundee-Glasgow, branch off between DND and GGW towards Edinburgh and Newcastle. Tie that into Northern Powerhouse Rail or HS2 phase 3 or whatever they're calling the Newcastle/Manchester/Hull triangle
>>1613741>Tory government>investing in Scottish/Northern infrastructure>with an independence referendum coming up>and thus a probable EU land border coming up[sad, empty, hollow lol]
>>1613334A Schwebebahn along Euston Road between St Pancras and Paddington would be better
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/480372/HS2-HS1_report.pdf>London Borough of Camden has indicated that it would strongly oppose an APM system on environmental and community impact grounds. >London Borough of Camden has indicated that it would strongly oppose any travelator system on environmental and community impact grounds. >All rail solutions provide significant journey time savings but have high constructioncosts and also suffer from operational and environmental disbenefits. Most of the railschemes reviewed have been previously rejected. On the basis of this review, theconclusion is that there is no viable rail option capable of meeting strategicaspirations while successfully addressing stakeholder concerns and value-for-moneycriteria....basically, 'lol no'
>>1613334Because light-rail would be cheaper. Plus we could also reuse the DLR cabs for the system.
>>1613749You say that, but if you twined it with the irish sea bridge then it could work
>>1613749don't worry, the Spanish will veto any attempt Scotland makes to join the EU because if Scotland gains independence and joins the EU it will cause the Catalans, the Basques, the Galicans, and every other fringe independence movement in Spain to sperg out