Considering we're mostly the products of English convicts/settlers and Europeans, you'd think we'd have a comfy af public transport system, yet it's terrible.In my city of Adelaide, we have like six train lines (and one of those, the Tonsley line, doesn't even count cos it goes along the Seaford line before splitting away for like three stops before terminating), only one of them is electrified (the others are diesel powered) and the train cars look like they're straight out of the Soviet Union). Unlike in England where I could take a comfy train from London to York or some shit and see all sorts of countryside or whatever, in Adelaide it's nothing but concrete jungle and derroland (unless you're on the Belair line, but no one cares about that line). Honestly wanna live in England for a year or two, all I'd do is take kino as fuck trains everywhere and go all over the country.On top of that, the stations are all run down and disgusting. The pic is of the station I'm going from or to regularly. There's derros everywhere, the lift is broken and smells like piss and shit and it's fucking disgusting. Why can't us Aussies have a kino train experience?Also Australian transport thread. Talk about Aussie trains, trams, buses and other things about public transport in Straya.
Shit population density
>>1247214well you cant do much about the geography lol no point complaining about thatas for the trains themselves, lack of investment really. Governments in Sydeny and Melbourne are only starting to invest massively in it now because of population pressures
>>1247230sydney* sorryVictoria would have some decent scenery along the bendigo line since it passes through the macedon ranges, but I haven't used it so I'm not 100% sure I just know the macedon ranges are pretty kinoI didn't know that adelaide had only one electrified line. Is it that underused?
>>1247231The electrified line is always pretty full; I've taken it in peak hour at the end of a work day and it's been like sardines packed into a tin.Northern lines get hectic too. Belair isn't that packed, Tonsley is barely used.
>>1247214>products of English convicts/settlers and EurosYou'd be surprised how much of an American touch we have to our urban planning and attitudes to public transport. Seems like everyone in this country wants their own backyard and space to park 5 cars out away from their CBD. Using public transport and not owning a car is seen as something only the poor do unless you're part of a specific niche like the hipsters in the north of Melbourne.Intuition tells me that the culture I've described above means that not enough people are willing to put the effort into making our public transport run like clockwork; a lot of people using it are just saving for a car or something. Then we have a rotten bunch of pollies who are disinterested in investing in public transport that works. See: le Brisbane bus stacking and 'metro'. Basically, blame the boomers as usual.People really aren't willing to make public transport work for their commute either. If you have to take a bus at one end (god forbid both ends) of your commute, then people just give up and would rather take a car. Too many people live too far from the stations and figure why catch a bus to the station when they have a convenient car just sitting in their driveway?Talked to a lady at work who said she lived about a kilometre away from a busway station in Brisbane's southeast, but when I said she would probably have to change buses to get to our office in the inner north, her interest just shut down like (paraphrase) "no way, that'd never work for me, I'd rather just drive my car".Never underestimate the laziness of people who own cars.
at least Adelaide city has functioning tram lines running throughout the city...rip old sydney tram lines
>>1247252desu I'm guilty of not wanting to take the bus too. In my case, it's too infrequent where I live so I dont bother, and some buses take ridiculously long routes for a short distance. Then you've got that catch 22 where you can add more services to entice people to catch the bus, or risk wasting a lot of money because the demand isnt there.I do see a lot of people complaining about the public transport here in Melbourne, and I'm not an inner north hipster so there is a significant amount of people who give a shit which is a promising sign. Plus, since the election is next month a lot of cool shit is being announced. Your gut reaction is probably going to be "oh they wont do half that shit anyway" but our current premier has delivered on the vast majority of his promises so far, so things look good.
>>1247290Have fun watching all that crumble cos Labor are gonna get voted out thanks to the anti-African migrant hysteria.
>>1247301Daniel Andrews can always convince the population that the airport rail is being built solely to transport them back home
>>1247247Interesting. Have they looked at adding extra services for that line? I assume electrification will come with demand.
>>1247511Don't quote me on this but with three lines to Seaford and departures from the city every 15 minutes (at least at clock off time), they might be a bit maxed out.Tbh it's not like we can really have much of a national network. Apart from NSW and Victoria, most of the nation doesn't even bother pretending that there isn't fucking shitloads of empty uninhabitable space inbetween each major population area.If England wasn't such a cucked Orwellian nightmare I'd move over there ASAP.
>>1247605Queensland has multiple decent sized cities along the coast, I can see something working there.As with south australia, unfortunately there is pretty much nothing apart from adelaide, the barossa valley and mt gambier.If you want super dense cities and towns packed together then yeah, Europe's your best shot. Best of luck to you
Post your local railway station, past or present.Used to love Auburn (Melbourne). Catch Alamein trains home and avoid the peak-hour rush, plus 5 minute headways going to the city until 9:00.
>>1247635That station looked vaguely Irish to me until I realised that Broad Gauge in Australia is identical to Irish Gauge (5 foot 3 inches).After looking it up though, it seems to be isolated to Victoria, parts of Southern Australia and New South Wales.
>>1247614Will England ever get uncucked? I just wanna ride some kino trains through some quaint villages without being spied on.
>>1248287I don't know why you're asking me lol
>>1248350Well as a European, do you think England will ever uncuck itself?
Can you smell the diesel fumes from here anons?
>>1248373lmao I'm not european, I'm australian
>>1248397Ah fuckI might go over anyway if I can do an exchange
>>1248694go for it man the only european public transport I used was in croatia. trams in zagreb were alright but the buses around the country were god awful, obviously in most other european countries it would be way better
/laborshill/ here but he's done it againhttps://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-21/new-melbourne-level-crossing-removals-to-include-sky-rail/10401896>25 additional level crossing removals>more bona fide, electrified, six-car skyrailAt least they're finally getting rid of Union/Mont Albert roads in Surrey Hills, fuck the nimbys but they're an absolute nightmare in peak.
>>1248805sky rail is going over all the inner north which is full of lefties so they probably won't care
>>1247223>OP talking about a city>muh small national population density
>>1248373I'm English,ask away
>>1248388How frequent are your diesel lines?I'm on a mission to prove that my local diesel line (UK) is the only line like it in the world.
>>1249044In Victoria you'll find there's a big difference in frequency depending how far out from Melbourne you go.South Geelong/Waurn Ponds services are very frequent but the Albury service only runs 3 times a day (6 times if you count UP and DOWN) as a loco-hauled service and another additional UP/DOWN pair as a DMU between Seymour and Melbourne and coach between Seymour and Albury.Contrast that with 32 Waurn Ponds UP services on weekdays or even more from Geelong, or Wyndham Vale.Do some work yourself too, you can get all of V/Line's timetables from their website.
>>1248964Will England ever uncuck itself?
>>1247214DESU that looks like one of them jap chink stations and them chinks have great trains so that must be a great train station IMO.
>>1247214Is that a cheeky spanish solution? perhaps you south australians are slightly more civilised than I thought
>>1248902Melbourne has 453 people per square kilometer. London has 1,500 per square kilometer.Only Sydney is properly populated, at 1,200 per square kilometer.
At least Australia has trains at all. That station looks gorgeous compared to anything in the US
>>1249555melbourne is 500km/2 and sydney is 415km/2 as per wikipedia, both very low
>>1247214>living in Noarlunga>calling other people derrosHa, good one anon!
what do you guys think about skyrail? personally I'm all for it, because the view is better and overall passenger experience is far superior to being stuck underground in a trench.
>>1249458Welp, someone got fucking murdered there yesterdaygr8 job Noarlunga
>>1250017itll be good when they run the high capacity trains with the new signaling, because its separate from the road now they will be able to run every 2/3 minutes>>1250030F
>>1250017Good as long as it has continuous bike paths beneath it and it doesn't end up full of graffiti and junkies. Maybe add some playgrounds and parks around it too to help that.
>>1250157that's what they said they were going to do, put a bunch of parks underneath it
>>1247214Only countries with very high population density and concentration benefit from HSR
>>1250286A case can be made for Sydney-Melbourne, since it's one of the busiest air routes in the world. There are also towns/cities along the line that can benefit from it.
All the transportation money for Melbourne went to trams so you have to use cheapo Soviet union gulag transport trans
>>1250293It's called the XPT. Are you willing to spend the money to get the 960 km of track between Sydney and Melbourne up to a decent high speed rail standard? How will improving the speed between the two ends help the majority of its users? At a guess, I'd say most passengers are people living in towns without airports, people who can get discounted fares - like pensionors - or people bringing a lot of luggage for cheap compared to the air fare. It's not really people who are looking to save a lot of time - they're the ones who catch planes.The main argument I could see behind upgrading the XPT is to fund regional development and decentralisation away from the capitals by giving people access to public transport outside of them. Unfortunately, contrary to the goal of increasing urban density, higher speed rail may have the opposite effect - making outlying towns like Seymour, Wangaratta, Mittagong, Goulburn, Newcastle, Woolongong into commuter dormitories for Sydney and Melbourne.It'd take a lot of push to convince people to take the train all the way between Sydney and Melbourne when flying is so much faster. Politicians would rather spend money on airport expansion than funding high speed rail. Interstate rail is really a bit of a dead concept in this country, and you'd have to find some exceptional reasons to bring it back to mainstream use.
>>1250301So disappointed that they keep lumping for the chinese manufacturers
>>1250301s o o n
>>1250157Why does it trigger you if people express themselves artistically around the stations?
>>1250663not him but 95% of it is shitty tags. not everything looks like hosier lane
>>1250523Fucking always with the great looking imagery and then looking like shit when it comes in to reality.>exposed aircon units>messy underfloor electronicsthe original designs looked so good
>>1250663I don't mind if it's street art murals etc, I just don't want garish black tags. In understand that people will want to decorate the concrete and leave their mark, but I want it to not be garbage thanks.
The only train line I've ridden here that might be considered "kino" is the Blue Mountains Line west of Sydney, and that's from a purely scenic perspective. The V set cars they run, or were running when I rode it eight or so years ago were showing their age back then. When the Zig Zag line also servicing Lithgow reopens next year it will be the best line in Australia once again in my opinion. As for everything past Penrith or Richmond into Sydney Central; it's shit. Slow and often filled with rubbish, graffiti and lebs. Perth rail is far from kino but at least it's cleaner and being a small city doesn't take forever to get to all the hubs.
>literally 1 minute walk from the OUTHA line>basically never use it everfeels odd man>>1250663>grafitti>artistickek
>>1250754they also managed to fuck up the stickers on the second car, the blue should point towards the ends like >> not like <>>>1250755I agree that proper street art is far preferable to shitty tags, but ironically wouldn't trenches provide much more available real estate to tag? And with 1000 pax/train in peak, more people would see it than the (comparatively) few living next to the rail line.
>>1249555London is disgustingly overcrowded. Nothing Hong Kong tier, but definitely too much. Your numbers are slightly wrong.London: 5,590/km^2Melbourne: 500/km^2Sydney: 415/km^2Your point is correct but it's not a very good one in response to mine. If I dumped London in Australia I shouldn't be able to use a poor national density as justification for shit public transport.
>>1250456>upgrading the XPTNo, build a new line. Fucking around trying to retro upgrade old lines never works, look at Germany and the UK.>>1249447Probably not, but it's still liveable.
Legit can't find any train services apart from the six metro options and the interstate lines. Almost impossible to find bus services that operate outside of the metro. That sucks.
more skyrail? more skyrail!https://amp.abc.net.au/article/10455368assuming pakenham will be rebuilt as an elevated station ala the CD9, I'm interested to see how the 3 track layout will work.feat. rampant nimbyism by the LNP, of course
>>1251433>Your numbers are slightly wrong.Population density numbers are affected very much by where you draw the city boundaries, yet that's BS for working out public transit requirement. Instead ask how many people are within, say, a mile of each station, including where they live and where they work. That's still an imperfect measure, but it's got nothing like the mountain of BS that overall city population density has.
>>1247214You Aussies think you have it bad? Try our train system here in the USA which is FULL of niggers
lmfao get a load of the chump above me
It must be sad being so pathetically racist.But here in a more civilised part of the world is Puffing Billy, definitely a kino heritage railway.
>>1253057Ours have many non whites as well. It doesnt say anything about the quality of the service, as it wouldn't change no matter who is riding it. It depends on the infrastructure. Dont care if this is a bait post I have to say it because a lot of americans actually think the reason their public transport sucks is because of black people, not the physical infrastructure.
>>1253204Forgot to add, good examples are London and Paris. Both great systems but are full of non-whites.
>>1247278You're thinking of Melbourne. There is only one (1) tram line remaining in Adelaide despite it being nearly perfect for trams. The 1950s vandals tore most of them out.
>>1253200I still find it hilarious that I live extremely close to Puffing Billy but I haven't traveled on it in like 10 years.I can see why the tourists love it to bits though.
>>1253204>>1253205Well it matters to me because I want to be safe, you can have the best transport system in the world but when you are riding with non-whites, who are generally low class and uncivilized, drug addicts and wiggers it does affect the quality of the service. Thats why I enjoy European infrastructure because besides the capitals, there's only civilized whites there and I feel safe>t. American who goes between South Florida and Galicia a lot
>>1254870You're an idiot and missing the point. Australian race relations and North American race relations are different. In NA you're segregated a lot. Australia is multicultural. There's probably more white bogans on the public transport than misbehaving africans and aboriginal people. Stop applying what happens in your country to our country.>captcha: select all crosswalksYup, it's official, 'merica owns the internet and the English language.
>>1247214>city of AdelaideFound your problem.
>>1247640What happened was that SA, Vic and NSW in the early days of rail agreed upon Irish broad gauge. Then some autistic Scottish engineer in NSW came along and ruined everything for the next 200 years
>>1250523so...is that a 'test train' or something?
>>1254870This is some powerful fearI bet you look like a muggable little bitch too
>>1249637what an ignorant and unqualified statement. Between philly, NYC and Boston I’ve probably seen 100 stations exactly like this
>>1256897why do americans make everything sound worse than it really is
>>1257032Grass is always greener / I enjoyed the study abroad semester Daddy paid for therefore Europe is superior / bashing America is cool for liberals / internet karma
>tfw I can't catch a train from Adelaide to VictorPeople have a giant boner for going to Victor in the summer, and considering how Main South Rd and Victor Harbor Rd tend to get clogged up with retard boomers towing boats and caravans at 60 or 70kmh, a train alternative would be nice.It's a shame they closed the line. I reckon if they reopened it these days (after spending quadrillions relaying the track with modern concrete sleepers) it'd see a lot of use in summer, plus it'd probably see year-round use for people commuting to and from Strathalbyn.
>>1257032it's also a case of people from a specific region speaking on behalf of the entire country.
>>1247301What? Sorry for being off topic but why is there an anti african migrant histeria in the place farthest from africa?
>>1247252I'm in Brisbane and it takes about 45 minutes to bus into the city in the morning and around 55 minutes in the afternoon.It takes 30 minutes by bike and 45 on the way home(I take a longer way home to avoid a really annoying hill) so it's not worth my time to take a bus even though it is direct to the city even with a ten minute shower/ironing at the end.I don't mind the bus but I need the exercise. However when going to other parts of the city for work which would require more than one bus/train I usually just drive or get a lift and ride home. The rules about not taking a bike on the trains during peak hour also suck(I understand the logic/need for them obviously) because I'd love to take a train to the other side of the city, work all day and then ride 40kms home. They are updating the train stations on the Ipswich line but they're not making them look much nicer than they did before, just rebuilding the shelters and painting them.
>>1257277some ended up migrating here and they got involved in robberies and now literally everything an african does ends up on the news>>1257113>>1257256fair enough, I always find that shit cringe. I know america has similar systems to aus in their big cities, although apart from NYC ours cover more suburbs
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/daniel-andrews-pledges-to-fully-fund-north-east-link-and-start-monday-20181122-p50hll.htmlfast rail is looking more likelyalso general bump
>>1253205>but are full of non-whites.hmmmmI don't know about Paris, but I can certainly say in the case of London that the tube is far whiter than the city.
>>1258281Shame on the LNP for not committing to as many crossing removals as Labor and pressing for their intersection removals instead, what a completely braindead idea that would destroy the local amenity of the area even more than Skyrail ever could. I hope the three Sunshine-Deer Park crossing removals also include grade separation of the RRL junction. With sparks soon on the way for Wyndham Vale and Melton, I don't think a flat junction would provide enough capacity for Metro+V/line, as well as fast regional rail.Speaking of which it's good that Labor has a plan for increasing capacity out to Sunshine for more regional services with their tunnel idea, something the LNP is lacking with their badly thought out "european-style" plans. For example, Traralgon in an hour is just out of the question without quadding to Dandy or another RRL style line altogether. There's nothing costed or even planned for that, probably because Guy knows it would have to be skyrail because a full length tunnel would be prohibitively expensive. Lastly, shame on Dandrews' plan for NE link that includes using the Eastern Freeway reservation for a busway and not rail, though I suppose SRL will end up serving Doncaster anyway - better 30 years in the future than never I suppose. Complete /laborshill/ here but I hope they get reelected tomorrow and that the LNP's African Gangs and Anti-Skyrail hysteria doesn't carry the sandbelt and city seats for them. The pork barelling going on down the Frankston line is just silly at this point. Even with polls favouring a Labor victory, tomorrow will be one to watch. If they have to form minority government with the Greens, maybe we'll see an announcement for Metro 2 as well.
>>1257294I'm on the Sunshine CoastFirstly>Maroochydore rail link fuckin WHENSecondly I took the train from Nambour in to the airport the other day, it was surprisingly convenient and comfortable, though slow until Landsborough.7/10 would do again when reasonable to do so
>>1258423we did it ladstime for trains
>>1258397inner Paris is more European, but the RER is Kenya
>>1258397Paris is white as fuck, don't listen to scared basement dwellers who saw one brown person and soiled their pants from fear
>>1258824No, Paris isn't white as fuck, only the very center. And the 92.
>>1254899lmao stfu naïve piece of shit. australia is basically an american colony at this point. your aboriginals and blacks make up less than half of what blacks in the us does, and most aboriginals live far away from any public transport. i can already tell you browse reddit and can't grow a beard
>>1258824I've never been to Paris in my life, but the way the population spread is (expansive surburbs past the city limit) leads me to believe that the inside isn't very white at all.
>>1254606They extended the tram line recently so its a bit better. But yeah, cage companies trashed the trams.
>>1254899Why are Americans so fucking dumb and think the whole world is either America or 3rd world war zone?
>>1258970>your aboriginals and blacks make up less than half of what blacks in the us doesI didn't make any claims about the proportion of the population.>most aboriginals live far away from public transport81% of Aboriginal people live in cities and non-remote areas. 42% of Aboriginal people in NSW live in urban areas. A lot of them look white or half, just like a lot of African Americans. I never meant to imply that there were a lot of Aboriginals on public transport and that they were mostly well behaved. I was making the point that people who behave poorly don't do so because they're black. You yanks seem intent on thinking race relations are the same in Australia as in the US, but they're simply not.>i can already tell you browse reddit and can't grow a beardNice ad-hominem. This is probably reflection, too. I'm not defending reddit, there are heaps of circlejerking sheep on it, but there are heaps of them on facebook and even, you guesed it, on 4chan as well. The circlejerk on 4chan is from the racist /pol/tards like you who think all black people want to steal your purse on the bus.
>>1248388yes i can. Still prefer the stench of the occasional R class though
The victorian railways had very little forward vision towards population growth. the lines they closed 50 years ago are getting reopened again.but on the other hand, the government has to stop taking credit for these reversals of decisions made by the VR and claiming it as their own genius ideas.also they need to stop destroying our heritage. they are starting to get very good at that.
>>1259349>The victorian railways had very little forward vision towards population growth>the lines they closed 50 years ago are getting reopened again.Don't think it was the victorians closing trainlines 50 years ago m8
>>1260360I was more thinking about the Mernda extension, how the VR closed it in '59, and they reopened it this year.
>>12593491969 Melbourne Transportation PlanThat is where the rot set inTen freeways planned in itNo railBuilt from 1969 to 2005Rail neglected, budget cut, maintenance and improvement works forestalledI'd like to see these sorts of developments going on instead of the shitbox apartment blocks and mcmansions built on farmland 50+ km away>tram route>commercial and business block along the street>medium density housing>highly efficient designs
>>1259349>getting mad because the government actually cares enough to reopen old lineswew
>>1260964actually being mad they got closed in the first place. the VR should have been smart enough to see population growth
>-26 bucks on my myki That's going in the bin.
The trains in Brisbane weren't too bad when I lived there. Used to live in the city, rode my BMX to the station, caught one train, transfered to another, then rode from the station to TAFE (community college).I liked waiting at the station alone at night. Or coming into the city late in the afternoon around this one curve.
>>1262289You're the kind of guy who tries to catch a train to Seymour with $2 left on your Myki aren't you?
on a side note but melbournefag on a holiday in NZ here, and can I start a discussion about our shitty ticketing system? Myki is far inferior to both Auckland's Hop card and Wellington's Snapper card (even though the latter is buses only). Both are much faster than Myki and NFC compatible with your phone. I think they look snazzier too.
>>1247214At least you aren't USA/Canada tier
>>1263783no you can't start a discussion about that
>>1263808you can still buy cash single trip tickets as well instead of having to purchase a snartcard too it's so much more convenient
>>1263994You can get paper tickets in pretty much every city worth mentioning in Australia except for Melbourne. Convenience be damned, if you pay for more than 2-3 trips with paper tickets, the extra charges will make you wish you had a smartcard. Opal is free anyway.>>1263783Myki fares are great value, $8.60/day or $4.30 concession, which is what myki has going for it. I've used GoCard and the gates are worse than myki gates, take about as long and swing around in retarded fashion without good visual cues and hard-to-read LCD screens without backlights. However the readers on buses are great. Railway station platform readers are about the same as myki. The fares on gocard can add up to quite a lot if you travel past zone 1 or do a few trip in one day.I haven't used my opal much but I can't remember it ever being slow to read and the screens are all backlit with clear information so I'd say it's got the best touch on/off experience.
>>1263783A lot of myki readers are now normal speed, not slow like when they were first released. Barely anyone complains about the myki system like they used to, now more complaints are directed towards the PT system itself.
>>1247214Because they were built by the English. Had they been built by the Americans ...
>>1265150>built by the EnglishHardly just the English, otherwise Victoria would never have chosen the Irish Broad Gauge.>Had they been built the AmericansWe would have more freight rail and even worse passenger trains, which is a trade-off I'm not interested in thanks.
>>1250456I think Sydney to Melbourne is a bad idea when flights are so cheap. It'll be massively expensive and you'd probably get most of the benefit just linking Wollongong to Newcastle via Sydney with high-speed rail. Maybe at a later date expansion to Canberra might be worth it. I'm a Sydneysider though so I have no idea what Melbourne's peripheral hubs are.
>>1265280geelong, ballarat and bendigo will probably get the high speed rail. geelong and ballarat are confirmed at this point
>>1247214One massive problem that Australia deals w/ is the fact that there are only ~25 million people living there. That is a tiny number of people for the massive land area that Australia is.Let's have Japan as an example. Japan is very small land area wise compared to Australia but has ~126 million people. This means that in a place like Japan there are many more people per kilometre to pay for the development & maintenance of public transport systems. However, this is not true in Australia & this is the massive challenge that Australia deals w/.Australia just does not have the proper population to pay for such public transport systems as you see in places like Japan. When it comes to public transport this is a major advantage that countries that are highly populated have against Australia.There is also the fact that public transport systems anywhere in the world are only built w/ regards to what is going to be used by the public. For example, if there was a bus route from the centre of Sydney out to someplace but no one ever used that bus route it would eventually be discontinued. This is true for any country in the world, not just Australia.Another good example is Singapore which only has a population of ~5.6 million but they have an excellent public transport system, way better than in Australia but this is because Singapore is such a tiny country land area wise, the entire country is only a little bit bigger than Townsville, Australia. So w/ ~5.6 million people living in Singapore it's no wonder that it can afford such excellent public transport systems. Also, w/ ~126 million people living in Japan which covers a pretty small land area it's no wonder that the Japs can afford such excellent public transport systems as well.This is mostly why Australia struggles to have a kino public transport system.
>>1265414This is partially correct but ignores the fact that most of the population lives in a line drawn from north of Brisbane to north of Adelaide, and most of that on the east coast and Melbourne. There is too high a degree of suburbanisation even in these areas, leading to problems with creating effective public transport systems to cover the areas. There are some fairly good systems that cover suburban areas (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide in that order) and some states with decent intercity transport within a radius of the capital (east coast states), but too few railway lines have been built in the capitals to serve completely all the land area of greater Sydney, Melbourne, etc. There are better and worse bus systems (see Brisbane for best buses, to the detriment of rail usually), but those can only have a limited catchment area. Developers are knocking up horrible windy road antisocial suburbs in the middle of nowhere just so people can afford housing, To a limited extent some of it must be because most Australians can't get into the urban lifestyle and demand backyards and car parks, but I think there's a younger generation here who are into the urban lifestyle but probably priced out of the inner urban areas and so will commute in on the train systems from further away, putting more people on trains instead of bikes: this is a capacity problem; in some areas and some long lines, the trains are packed, but we haven't seen the investment needed to upgrade capacity. Melbourne's metro tunnel should help to a degree, though more triplication/quadriplication and express services are needed, and there can be too little land available around the railway in the urban core. I'm not saying it's as simple as 'build it, and they will come' (it never is), but there has been consistent underinvestment in public transport to transform more car trips into public transport or active transport trips.tldr: More suburban trains are needed
>>1265176We would have more freight rail and even worse passenger trains, which is a trade-off I'm not interested in thanks.it lacks sources.
>>1247252Do you ozzies also have incel NIMBYs like the piece of work in the "anti-transit NIMBYs greatest hits" thread?
>>1265653I'll start this thread off with some classics.>MN TOWN COUNSEL MEMBER WARNS OF "ETHNICS" "FLOODING" TOWN VIA LIGHT RAILhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktyJpWbcKA [Embed]The Light Rail System connects Minneapolis, Minnesota to some of its surrounding towns and suburbs. The project is set to expand into more conservative outlying suburbs such as Hopkins. Bob Ivers of the Hopkins city counsel warns of "ethnics" "flooding" into Hopkins from "Welfareopolis.">Robert Phillip Ivers, 65, was arrested after telling two attorneys in February, “You don’t know the fifty different ways I plan to kill” the judge after she ruled in favor of an insurance company he sued.>Last year, a Hennepin County jury convicted Ivers of stalking by phone and acquitted him of a terroristic threats charge in connection with a string of messages left for a state court judge that included, “I’m going to make sure you feel some [expletive] pain.”The government also cited four 2014 reports to the Hennepin County Sheriff’s Office of letters sent by Ivers to multiple judges that included remarks such as “I hope your family dies.”I wonder what board he browses.
>>1265421>there can be too little land available around the railway in the urban coreThis is true nearly everywhere in the world. Stop whining about it.
>>1265650Luckily we don't have as rabid a NIMBY culture as the US, but it definitely exists. Probably the worst (Melbourne-based) examples that come to mind were the campaigns against skyrail and the Sunbury electrification.Skyrail (https://www.noskyrails.com/) was/is the grade separation of several level crossings along a suburban rail corridor by elevating the rail line above them. Basically some people whose houses backed onto the rail line mounted a (completely defeated) campaign to lower the rail line instead citing concerns about overshadowing, lowered property values, sound issues and pedophiles looking into their backyards.Likewise the extension of suburban electrification to Sunbury (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/some-in-sunbury-not-galvanised-by-train-electrification-20120812-242v3.html) was opposed for petty reasons, that their comfy regional V/Line trains would be replaced with "cattle class" suburban Metro trains, despite the latter being far more frequent.Basically I'd say the average Australian is a lot less divided along racial lines and far more concerned about (comparatively) petty issues in comparison to the US, and the NIMBYs here reflect that.
>>1265642Idk those sort of passenger trains look cool mate
>>1250765This, I'll never forget how comfy it is to go through the mountains. It's also impressive how shitty rides become once you come down from the mountains.
>>1248805>level crossing removalI'm not australian, what's the point? And isn't it an absurd cost to elevate tracks just at the points of 25 crossings?
>>1268709The figure that's always been touted is that some of the gates are closed at peak period for up to 45 minutes. This kills the road traffic, including cyclists and pedestrians.Also guys, Sandringham line triplication would be nice. Try getting on a peak train at Prahran station, find you can't because everyone crowds the doors not the aisles, then catch the tram which takes 5 minutes more and has seats you can use your laptop on.
>>1268709see >https://www.danielbowen.com/2015/12/15/grade-separation-benefits/There are loads of benefits from grade separations:•Can increase frequency of trains because it won't delay cars•Road users don't have to stop at level crossings, including emergency vehicles, buses etc•Idiots will stop getting hit by trains while crossing them•Opens up rail reservation, in this case is for a linear park and cycle path (Djerring trail)•Stations can be redeveloped, like better passenger amenity or disabled access•Allows improvements to be done to the line, like signalling and power upgrades for future HCMTs to be introducedIt's not an absurd cost when you realise this is one of the busiest rail corridors in Melbourne and needed to be upgraded anyway. As long as cars keep on getting hit at crossings and crippling the entire line it was in desperate need of grade separation.
>>1269936If these immigrants wanted to go live rural/regional, we'd be happy with that. Door's wide open.Instead, they go live in the densest-packed suburbs of the densest-packed cities, breed like locusts and try to kill everyone who isn't their colour/culture/religion.This is why "fuck off, we're full".
>>1271420>If these immigrants wanted to go live rural/regional, we'd be happy with that. Door's wide open.>Instead, they go live in the densest-packed suburbs of the densest-packed citiesThey're going where the employment is. What exactly do you expect them to DO in rural Australia?
>>1271445Man rural Australia is a fucking sad place, so many towns just kinda sitting there with hardly any life
>>1271445imagine if telecommuting was viable so that more people could live in rural australia... sounds like something a fibre internet network would be useful for...
>>1271445>What exactly do you expect them to DO in rural Australia?...whatever people who already live in rural Australia do for a living?
>>1272468>le NBN if done properly would have stopped urbanisationdumb child
Australia has no unified track gauge, unlike most other Western countries. Each region started out with a different gauge during the colonial period (5'3" in Victoria, 4'8.5" in NSW, 3'6" in Queensland, etc.), and they never got around to picking one for the whole country.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_gauge_in_Australia
>>1272513For most intents and purposes though, there is no break of gauge when travelling interstate. Australia has working standard gauge connections across the continent connecting every capital. Freight runs standard gauge Melbourne-Sydney-Brisbane, Melbourne-Adelaide-Perth/Darwin, Sydney-Broken Hill-Adelaide.
>>1272512No, it wouldn't have stopped urbanisation, but it would've given the country more of a level playing field.People who grew up in the country but move to the city have more of an incentive to stay, because they have access to more jobs without having to move. People who are already in cities and want to move to the country can do so whilst still working at their existing job, or without worrying about a vastly reduced employment market. NBN done properly or not, anything that makes living outside Australia's primary cities more attractive would help alleviate the burden of ever-increasing immigration.