Good and Evil editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrevious: >>104870251
>>104899626where is wagner on the chart
>>104899626This image is b8
I guess I'll post this here instead. Goodnight.https://vocaroo.com/1iGbf9hBrHJH
My favorite piece of classical music ever. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnnXVKld8YI
>>104899784My god, he's annoying to look at. And what's with non-stop crescendo-decrescendo?
>>104899812What is a better performance of this piece
Why are some movements of Mahler's long enough to be a whole symphony?
>>104899936Milstein on fucking violin.
>>104900031no im talking about the rachmaninoff transcription, the bach version sucks.
>>104900061>Bach is overratedDangerously redpilled
>>104900023>he complains about mahler
>>104900208Mahler I still bother listening to. Why should I complain about music I don't listen to?
Mahler is kosher Bruckner
>>104899682sounds really bad
The epic-pilled music is going to slowly overtake classical. You read it first here.
>>104900337you mean like the halo title screen music or hans zimmer or what
Do you love Sibelius?
>>104900362All of it in whichever form: epic trailer music, youtube epic compilations, etc. Zimmer is somewhere in between the epic and movie.
>>104900337>epic What do you mean? Spans an epoch?I think Ligeti wrote a multiple century long piece, or was that Cage?
>>104900402shut up faggot
>>104900369Symphonies? Yeh. His violin concerto I never cared for.
I SAID post Mendelssohnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JTH4ZdJcjk
>>104900555Where did you say that?
>>104900558End of last thread
>>104900094I hate ts guy
Violin concerto in G minor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os8fFmEmRZE
>>104900094He swings from measured and sensible uncle to obnoxious, full-of-himself amerifat.At least he's right in shitting on Gramophone and British critics, who happen to be even more obnoxious than Hurwitz.
>>104900726Do British critics still think of Ralph Vaughan Williams and Elgar as great composers?
Other than Mahler and Strauss, who else wrote good orchestral songs?
>>104900797the other strauss
>>104900797Ravel's Sheherazade song cycle is absolutely marvelous.
Why is Spanish music so good?https://youtu.be/J_FKcvNbxF8
friendly reminder that bach's thicc phat ass makes him the best twerker
>>104900061based and rachpilled
>>104899626Liszt should be lawful good, he was an angel
>>104900927he twerks to praise godhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nD0pHde0fA
Did he do any good recording, or was he another meme conductor?
>>104901065he was great in music where he didn't go overboard with his sappy, syrupy unify the whole orchestra into one voice string-centric style, or in music where that style works just fine. also pretty great at accompanying singing, his opera recordings tend to be good. For example, try his Le Nozze di Figaro, La Clamenza di Tito, and his Ring. I think he's good in Dvorak 9 and the Holst planets as well
>>104901065He was very good in Sibelius, R. Strauss, Bruckner. Also made terrific recordings of Honegger and Webern.
>>104901065His late romantic stuff is good, like Bruckner, Wagner and Tchaikovsky. But his classical/baroque is dull and lifeless.
>>104901065Have a read of Bernard Michael O'Hanlon's reviews to find the gems.
Thoughts on K576?
>>104901096>But his classical/baroque is dull and lifelessNot always:https://youtu.be/XTq26nYGRrY
>>104901590Who's chaotic tonal?
>>104901617He changes the tonic every note
>>104901590Debussy’s work is far less chaotic than Strakinsky’s.
best piano violin duo?
Beach's keyboard concertos sound better on piano than harpsichord
>>104901807bachsed and pianopilled
Beethoven is so much better than Mozart. it's not even close.
Glenn Gould did Bach much harm
>>104899626Liszt is neutral good
>>104899626where does shostakovich belong on that alignment chart?
>>104899626someone like berlioz or scriabin should be chaotic evil
>>104901894Other way around
>>104901807They sound better on the violin
violin = cringe, shrill, normie, soullessviola = based, lush, sigma, SOVL
>>104902241imagine being filtered by violin
>>104902342Sorry chud but I'm the one doing the filtering
>>104902371i believe you, i believe you filter out which penises enter your butthole or not
>>104902241Never fall in love with a violinist bros. Only pianists.
>>104902400You'd be wrong sweaty, my butthole only accepts female (female) tongues
>>104902464and female (female) worn strap ons too?
>>104902586No, only tongues
>singlehandedly ruins musicwhy did she do it bros
Did you know Vivaldi and Bach both died on July 28th?
>>104901894not to me
>>104903196No, but I knew Haydn and Bach were both born on March 31, and Brahms and Tchaikovsky on May 7
>>104902178Why would you post such a lofi recording? Is it a hipster thing?
>>104901590Bartok is what elves would look like if they aged
>>104903939You're probably new but there are a bunch of /classical/ hipsters that only post stuff pre-1950They have shit taste, ignore them
>>104902241one violin 2 violas one cello would have been a better string quartet standard
Viola is litteraly an imperial instrument
you know whats harder than playing a piece?not overplaying the piece
>>104903969t. asian pianist
how do we fix the soulless asian pianist problem?
>>104904145Stop buying overhyped DG/Decca/Sony albums
>>104901724Ives violin sonata 4
>>104904168This and dont ever watch any piano competitions. Either way its all futile, musicians in this day and age are raised in a way to believe that they must be technically proficient enough to play anything by age 18/16 or else they wont make it.
>>104904492ive been shilling that this isn’t the case for like 5 years now, i think it’s working
>>104904112You know there are plenty of good European and American pianists around today? More than there were 100 years ago?
Which race has the most soulful pianists?
>>104904787Obligatory Horowitz quote
>>104904842Yep that's the one, nailed it
>>104904693I think to be more specific, children (who usually haven’t had the training such as those they see in competitions) see these competitions as a sort of gateway into the musical world and begin to compare themselves to the musicians they see and start to believe that that’s what they want. Most (such as myself) realize its futile and ultimately fail (i.e. they give up or break out of the spell) and the ones that make it usually suffer from mid-life crisis. Basically they forget why they play music in the first place.
Chopin on harpsichordhttps://youtu.be/zEcg7GNy7wU
>>104904835Technical proficiency is one requirement to be deemed good, yes
>The two keyboards, or "manuals", control different sets of strings. In some designs, the second manual might control strings tuned a fourth (four notes) down from the main keyboard. This allows the harpsichordist to switch to a lower register when required, which frees up the higher registers for a vocal accompaniment.
>>104904855i’m sorry for your loss but it’s a birthright and all you have to do is say yes
>>104904863It's a fun experiment, this prelude works quite well but I don't think that the rest of op. 28 is suited for the harpsichord.not related but the guy linked here made a lot of very interesting videos.
>>104904867yeah, but not the most important one
Do you think Wagner's Bridal Chorus will be affected by cancel culture?
>>104905102i hope so
>>104900369I'm not that big of a fan of his work, and I say this a finn.I'm more of a tchaikovsky fan.
>>104900369Yeah, his later symphonies particularly.
>>104905664https://twitter.com/hanarenohito/status/1401137871680008201>Maestro, safer not to disclose where you are under quarantine in many ways. The compound hosts a range of intelligence agents.what did he mean by this
after listening to a wide range of recordingsbaroque flute>modern flute>classical flute no wonder mozart hated flutes
don't have perfect pitch but why do different keys still have different feelings, like imo e flat minor has a very peculiar sound and sharp keys like e or b major have this kind of bluish coldness
Mendelssohn's sacred music https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsS7A95VAl4really nice
>>104905776show me your best baroque flute and classical flute recordings
>>104905888yeah wait why are b major and e major rare compared to b flat and e flat while e minor and b minor are fairly common is b flat because of the German h thing?
>>104906085I've always wondered, what is the eastern equivalent of Bach, Beethoven, etc.? Are there any good non-modern eastern composers?
>>104906115they just didn't have that tradition, classical music is actually pretty special. even during classical hellenism there wasn't a canon of composers or anything
>>104906165I found this interesting post.
>>104901590>meme about tonality>meme about good and evil composers>no WagnerIt's like you're not even trying.
>>104906316Very interesting indeed. Reminds me of what Jung and Heidegger said about the East.But I still think they have a literary canon in the broader sense of the term, just not a musical one.
>tfw Beethoven already perfected piano music
>>104906316This lumps way too many cultural spheres into one 'East'. Anyway there are definitely artistic works considered canonical to specific Eastern cultures. Classical music as we understand it is a specifically Western phenomenon however.
I don't like Sir Colin Davis' Berlioz.
>>104905990I think that it's about which key is easier/more difficult to play on strings instruments, especially in the baroque period. It's probably also due to tuning.
>>104906558and then schumann super-perfected it
what is a chorale setting ?
>>104907666a type of music piece based on a German protestant church song (a chorale)
>>104906910I don't like Berlioz
>>104907894Pet Sounds is okay but come on now
>>104907894>Well, I'd rather hear Winterreise than the noises made by most pets. But an elephant trumpeting vs. the scherzo of the Bruckner Fourth is another matter. :-) lmao
The Transcendent Der Jüngling am Bache D. 638A: The melody flows elegantly like a brook. Great harmonic touches. Perfect. Ellens Gesang III (Ave Maria): This entire oeuvre is a tribute to the rareness of the truly special melody this is. Gretchen am Spinnrade: A classic and a jewel. Nacht und Träume D. 827: Only Schubert could write these voicings. Der Tod und das Mädchen: So ominous and so profound. Abschied von der Harfe: Such pain in so few notes. Herbst: Visceral passion. Lebensmut (fragment): Optimistic and exciting, but with maturity. Erlkönig: Never loses its power, no matter how many times you hear it. Schwanengesang D. 957: Paradoxically, the melancholy of this work makes it possible to transcend melancholy. (Not even I am stupid enough to rank these three cycles song by song.) Die schöne Müllerin: Shot through with warmth and solace and the most human longing for the sweetly, painfully unattainable. Winterreise: Sometimes I think if this was the only music that ever existed, things would still somehow be OK.
>>104907894Too many classical fans don't care for and severely underrate lieder, opera, oratorios and classical vocal music in general. Probably has something to do with them not being able to get past the vocal style.
>>104905776But Mozart loved the flute?
>>104905990e minor and b minor have less accidentals
>>104906558There is no perfect piano music (and if there were it certainy wasn't Beethoven)
>>104907666In the wider sense chorale usually means multiple voices moving (roughly) homorhythmically with parsimonious voice leading
>really like the amadeus quartet playing mozarts string quartets>find out they are jewishNope, just nope.
Post jew performersi'll starthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDdjIhOwFEE
>>104908141no you're thinking of the clarinet>>104908486Talich, Quatuor Mosaiques, Alban Berg, Juilliard, Hagen, all good. never heard Amadeus
Best piano concerto 24?
>>104908065No, I don't think that's it. Because I love all classical vocal music *except* lieder. But yes I'd rather hear Morrissey sing Winterreise than Fischer-Diskau.
>>104908579I like this one a lothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaoXTuklnyM
>>104908486>>104908574Emerson Quartet is the best
>>104908601utterly based, this guy's 8bit recordings are amazing.
is it true that classical is basicly proto metal?
>>104908699In the sense that classical is proto everything yesIn the sense that metal is closer to classical than other genres are no
>>104908574No, I'm thinking of the flute.He wrote 2 and a half flute concertos, 4 flute quartets and a bunch of his violin sonatas may be played by flute. Apart from that it's very prominent in his symphonic works overall.
>>104908718ok but he hated it on it and loved on the clarinethe wrote all of his flute quartets and the concerto for flute and harp in paris due to a flautist patron
>>104908718He wrote to his father while writing said concertos on commission from a flautist complaining that he couldn't bear the instrument.
WARNING WARNINGSERIOUS case of SOULhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWtdLYdGaR0
>>104908709I mean in the sense of having technical instrumentals that would be difficult to perform and that are relatively fast paced and/or progressive
Holy shithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEioIeGPDiUHow did he do it bros
>>104908486never liked amadeus, too much screechy vibrato on the first violin, guess that explains it
>>104908889No, THIS is soul:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeveCTqVnu8
me (based): maskless tuba player spewing my lungs out on the entire hallyou (cringe): leprous string player that has to wear xir matching black mask at all times
>>104910072The one thing that really bothers me in that movie is that they use modern bows on the strings when ask the other instruments are historicalhttps://youtu.be/ruBCHawMVWA
I will not play Bach staccato, fuck anyone who thinks I should. Bach is supposed to play legatissimo
>>104899626mozart is chaotic evil.that nigga used to act like a cat and told a bunch of people to lick his ass.
>>104910461>moviesorry I meant the amadeus quartet
Anyone watching the Chopin competition?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4HKLkeD4E8
If Schubert had been healthy and bound to live a couple (at least) more years, would his late sonatas, quintet, late song cycles, late symphonies, etc. still've sounded the way they do? Or was this a result of an epiphany that was revealed to him as he approached death?
>>104914002Well obviously, he wrote those in pain and agony. Put in him a harem with babes bouncing on his cock all day and I hardly think he'd even start the Unfinished, kekOn a related note, I find it unfortunate that Mozart and Beethoven didn't get into polyphonic writing until near the end of their lives. Mozart didn't know that of course, but Beethoven did and I've always felt his last works are when he finally became his own man. Sad, that's what it took.
>>104910922Ah, my bad
>>104908203Wrong. A chorale is just a simple melody. A chorale setting is a composition created around that simple melody. Chorale: https://youtu.be/i4F3q8jD3HkChorale setting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ANSfYZmiEc
>>104906316Where is that from?
rec me some stuff with polyrhythms
thoughts on talkclassical, what kind of people are on there, is it fun?
>>104917796Mainly boomers who favour the same old conductors and performers. A useful resource at times but they don't really go off the beaten path.
ive been listening to classical for a few years, lots of renaissance and modern classical. Never could get into classical era, some romantic works, never really tried. Came across beethoven's 9th and after about 20mins in i dropped it. Is something wrong with me? It just doesn't sound very interesting, it sounds the same throughout, modulates back n forth the same minor keys, not much going on with harmony
>>104916443correct but to be more precise a chorale is a lutheran/protestant hymn.
>>104918030Yes there is something wrong with you. Beethoven 9 is both entry level and exit level. It is THE classical piece that everyone in the world should like. I suggest you force yourself to listen to it until it clicks for you. Brainwash yourself into liking it. Your future self will thank you.https://youtu.be/muNFmZr6hWI
>>104918097based black streamer
>>104918030Listen to his middle and late piano sonatas. If you aren't completely taken in, then yes I suggest something may be wrong with you.
>>104917562du du du dun sounds pretty evil
>>104918030I guess you hate Baroque too? https://youtu.be/kG687XCXtXk
>>104900641who is he
>>104918030yeah there might be something wrongtry haydn op 20 no. 5 or 3, op. 33 no 5 or 1, mozart clarinet quintet or piano concerto 20, schubert symphony 9 or string quartet 13 to make sure it's not a beethoven thing and listen to beethovsn symphony 6 and string quartet 14 to make sure its not just a symphony 9 thing
I prefer the harpsichord because piano sounds bad on my phone speakers
>>104918030to be fair the first movement is the only one in that symphony that might not click on first listen. should have kept going
>>104919386This scene made it click for me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b3_-pPzDVk
>>104919424dumb movie but good scene
Post weird classical covers
>>104920099>inb4 boobs wagner albums
>>104916443That's why I said in the wider sense, or rather people usually mean that when they say something like "this section is like a chorale".
>>104918030Classical era music is not about fancy harmonies, it's much more about cleverly realizing standard harmonic progressions and surprise you with seldom deviations of the standard formulas (Schubert was a master of this).
I've been really enjoying Schubert's last three piano sonatas lately. What's your favourite performance?
Why is Vivaldi's music so charming and dripping in swag?
>>104920758958 & 959: Pollini960: Brendel (digital)TYX0P
>>104920169If anyone says "this section is like a chorale" they're stupid. What they should say is "this section is like a 4-part harmonized chorale" as that is what they likely mean.
>>104920758Staier, Badura-Skoda, ErdmannBut don't ignore the other late ones (or all of Schubert's piano music actually), the G and D major ones are really great too.
>>104921000You’re just wrong. Composers regularly refer to such harmonized sections as simply chorales.
>>104921229>>104921404Interesting preference for the forte. I normally vastly prefer a modern grand but I've been listening to Schiff's recent sonata recordings on a forte and actually it's not bad. Gives the pieces a very intimate feeling that somehow works for Schubert but IMO not really Beethoven. Beethoven's sonatas sound like they were written for the concerto hall, Schubert's sound like they were written for the living room.
>>104921528Beethoven himself stopped writing piano sonatas and said it was an "unsatisfying" instrument back when only the forte existed, so I feel it's kind of our duty as performers to play it on a more modern version of the instrument.
>>104921000Based digits of truth
>>104921000Cringe digits of falseness
>>104921528the pianist definitely matters more than the instrument. I dislike schiffs schubert and love brautigams beethoven
>>104921637I completely agree, desu I don't really understand why people insist that Beethoven should be performed on a forte.>>104921844Well yes but it's still extremely important. What don't you like about Schiff? I prefer his recent one to the original.
FREMD BIN ICH EINGEZOGEN
Who is the best American composer?
>>104900208Honestly, Bruckner’s 9th 30 minute adagio is so beautiful
>>104921884I don't know. there's just something about his articulation that makes the melodies less good to me
>>104921637He would have hated the modern piano even more.
>>104921954>>104921991>>104922016Ives you retards, the answer is always Ives
>>104921954>who is the best pile of shit
>>104922099it's more limited than the fortepiano that's for sure
>>104921528Yeah, I think Schubert is one of those composers where the fortepiano is really suited much better to the music. But not only for the intimate character but also because of how Schubert liked to write the bass part of his piano works. I personally don't like Schiff all that much though. You should compare his interpretations with Badura-Skoda and Staier and see if you really find him any good in comparison.
>>104921991This and you can't convince me otherwise
>>104922443>>104921991I've only listened to his String Quartet no. 1 and it's lovely. that's not what he meant by American though
>>104922099Why? That makes no sense.>>104922294Yeah I listened to their versions of D960 and I don't know, I just find Schiff more playful, like in the way he uses very subtle rubato to exaggerate little syncopated phrases, or where he goes through piano passages quite staccato but still very quiet. He never feels heavy-handed which is strange considering his style isn't romantic at all.
Musical equivalent of this clip? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL_uiPbMTLU
>>104900992If you try to learn his music you'll realize that chaotic evil is 100% correct
any choirbros? what’s some ez but fuuuul choir pieces for a guy to learn?
>>104922258And I want her to get fatterBachhttps://youtu.be/haV1tTQ4ze4
>>104922624Well I agree for Schubert but as I said Beethoven IMO only sounds right on a modern piano. It's very well-documented that he pushed against the limitations of the forte throughout his career, he wanted something with more power and resonance in the bass to mirror and indeed contest the sound of the orchestra. I mean can you really listen to the dramatic opening statement of the 5th piano concerto and honestly say the forte is the way it's meant to be played? What about the late sonatas, which are significantly closer to Liszt than to Mozart or Schubert? Playing them on a contemporary forte is like castrating them.
Is 12 tone serialism any good?https://youtu.be/JEY9lmCZbIc
What do you guys think about a general for people who actually play a classical instrument? I'm tired of interacting with the pedantic retards here who can't even play anything.
>>104923305enjoy your 20 replies before the thread dies
imagine thinking this sounds better on a fortepianohttps://youtu.be/pXwkwsS7A6s?t=79
imagine thinking this sounds better on a fortepianohttps://youtu.be/lncNcNtGkJY?t=1673
>>104923305There's the guitar general. I'm sure they will welcome you and your violin.
>>104899626>bach not lawful good wtf
>>104923702>>104923759Beautiful pieces. Thanks for sharing. I've never heard them on fortepiano though.
I'm aware of early gems such as the 25th symphony which Mozart wrote at 17, but at which K# does Mozart get consistently amazing?
>>104922135You are, anon. You're a fantastic piece of shit :)
>The guitarre d'amour, or arpeggione as it came to be known, was invented sometime during 1823 or 1824 by the respected Viennese guitar maker Johann Georg Stauffer. The instrument -- a kind of enlarged guitar that could be bowed, cello-style, due to an altered fingerboard -- was by no means a success; within just a few years of its birth it had for all intents and purposes suffered extinction. To music lovers, however, this short-lived instrumental curiosity will be forever remembered as the vehicle for Franz Schubert's Sonata "per arpeggione" in A minor, D. 821 -- a work now played almost exclusively by violists and cellists, although it exists in arrangements for instruments as far afield as the euphonium.>Schubert composed the "Arpeggione" Sonata in November 1824 shortly after returning from Zseliz, where he had spent his second summer (the first one being in 1818) teaching music to the Count of Esterházy's two daughters. The three-movement Sonata must be altered somewhat if it is to be played on cello or viola: the arpeggione possessed six strings, tuned to the same pitches as a guitar's, and the resulting extended range can cause problems when the piece is transcribed; in most editions, certain portions of the piece are transposed up or down an octave from their original position to avoid the extreme registers. However, Schubert by and large avoided the kind of idiosyncratic arpeggiations that earned the original instrument its nickname, focusing instead on the same focused lyricism that drives a traditional sonata for string instrument and piano; in this way, the work readily adapts to modern performance.
>>104921954Gottschalk, the only relevant American composer.
>>104924293>but at which K# does Mozart get consistently amazingK.304
>>104924293during the Paris period, i.e. 290s/300sflute and harp concerto, piano sonatas 7-9, Paris symphony, etc. then in the 330s he gets even better, then once idomeneo comes out it's mostly perfection from there
>>104923070Just because modern piano is louder doesn't mean Beethoven would prefer it. I think he would like a more powerful fortepiano where all the registers still shine through rather than the modern piano
>>104923305A player of an instrument is no more than a glorified playback device.
>>104924908what is a conductor then? a glorified sound mixer?
>>104924941He's the funny guy who waves the stick. Inside joke.
>>104923759It does sound (much) betterhttps://youtu.be/v62o20TKEJQ?t=1504
Why is the .ape format so popular with classical music? Back when I was a /mu/corefag I could find everything in .mp3 or .flac files but now my library is filled with .ape files.
>>104924575Interesting. I've never heard anyone say anything good about Mozart's violin sonatas.
>>104924908t. someone who doesn't play any instrument
>>104925253Because only fucking chimps listen to classical
>>104925265I think Einstein liked them
>>104925265Has anyone ver said anythih4xnong BAD about them?
>>104925323No, but people constantly rave about his piano concertos and operas.
Seed already you niggers I've been stalled for days
>>104925354>using the Microsoft botnet
Wagner = coitus to climax (eventually)Scriabin = coitus interruptus (repeatedly)
https://youtu.be/4u2crSZP2ng?t=359Does anyone know what other piece this melody is used in? Directly accompanying the words as soon as he starts singing again. It sounds so familiar and I swear I've heard it outside of Meistersinger.>>104925404>(eventually)Lol.
>>104925354just use spotify lol
>>104925354>>104925488Just use Primephonic
>>104925265/mu/ is not the world, you know... >[K. 304] is one of the miracles among Mozart's works; it springs from the most profound depths of emotion, and goes beyond the alternating dialogue style to knock at those gates of the great world of drama which Beethoven was to fling wide open. Mozart does not become pathetic, and this reserve, this concealment of an inner fire, together with - in the portion in major of the tempo di minuetto - a brief glimpse of bliss, only enhances the mysterious power of this apparently 'little' sonata.
>>104925512Putting it on my to-listen-to list. I also browse talkclassical.com (I only lurk though) and my local orchestras never seem to have any Mozart violin sonatas but plenty other Mozart, so I'm not sure it's only a /mu/ thing.