How exactly is this supposed to work?Yes you can explain it by saying the GM-II existed first by merit of 0080 and 0083 being made years later, but it visually it doesn't line up at all.
The Master Archive Mobile Suit books made them look more uniform.
>>21745421The real answer is that they're basically just different artistic takes on the GM. The GM Type-C was designed by Katoki whose Gundam looks basically the same and it effectively was just Katoki's GM. Pic related, this is from FIX Figuration #26, which features Katoki's RX-78-2 with parts to convert to a GM, you'll notice it looks nearly identical to the Type-C. That's because the Type-C is just a name given to Katoki's GM design and canonized as a variant MS with some color changes. The GM Command and other 0080 GMs are just Izubuchi's take on the GM also canonized as variants after some changes/refinement to make it pass as a "new" unit. The fluff answer is that the GM Command is based on a GM platform made for harsh climates on Earth derived from an unknown late production type of the GM. What's confusing is the Type C is also sometimes called the late type, but they're probably not meant to be related since the Type C was also allegedly related to the late production type GM. The GM Type C was based on a sister platform to the RGM-79 designed in space, the Type E, shown at the beginning of 08th MS team used by Sanders. The Type E was just a prototype for data collection but later on it was improved and mass produced in the form of the Type C. The GM II is directly based on the GM and although only some GMs were converted to GM IIs the GM II was designed with part compatibility in mind, with a significant number of parts being shared to simplify the production and maintenance processes. It's not clear what the late production type GM is but it might just be an improved RGM-79. The initial production GMs were said to be unreliable and finnicky machines.
>>21745441The GM-II is still listed lore-wise as being the replacement for the original RGM-79 GM, despite the GM-C clearly already having done so in 0083.
>WE NEED TO GO BACK
>>21745421different manufacturing plants + convergent evolutionyou can roughly divide the GMs into standard-derived GMs, Ground Type GMs, E-type derived GMs, Cold District derived GMs. the Cold District type culminated in the Command/Sniper II types and the E-type culminated in the Custom/Quel types, but all four of those were not ideal for mass production. the GM II is the result of conservatively going back to the standard GM frame for cheapness while also trying to save as much from the development of the other types, mainly the Cold District and C-type.there was a fucking chart for this shit but i forgot the filename i put on it, fuck me
>>21745450Technically we only see them at Torrington and used by the earth line defense fleet or whatever, it could be that only certain fleets had them whereas the GM II was the mainstay of the normal federation and Titans, to the point the AEUG just took a bunch of them and made a fleet of their own.
>>21745454>i forgot the filename i put on itSort your folder by descending file size/dimensions?
>>21745436imagine the inner flame
>>21745459i don't remember the file size either
>>21745464MS charts tend to be big so it'll be easier to find this way is what I mean
>>21745441Part of the issue is that the original Gundam has basically 6 years of war development compressed into a single year. The RGM-79 doesn't really have the time in the OYW to develop all the variations it does.
>>21745421First off, the GM Type C you're showing here is also a 0079 modelNow, the explanation comes down to two facts: first, there were many development teams working at the same time with different approaches and tasked with solving different problemssecond, you cannot underestimate the industrial output of the Federation. We're talking about the entire planet Earth as well as a number of space stations, primarily Luna II singularly focused on the war effort. With the cataclysmic loss of life caused by the OYW the economy was practically in free-fall, and there was no time nor resources that could be spent on stabilizing it, so Federation went all-in on weapon development and production to end the war before the war ended them.The doylist answer comes down to different designers having their own spins on the core design, different enough to warrant being categorized as a separate machine.
>>21745450During the OYW there are multiple GM production sites. Jaburo produces the "original" GM, Augusta is responsible for the GMs that have a very slanted, protruding chest with quad vents (aka the Izubuchi-designed GMs like the Command and the cold climate type), and Luna II produces the GM C-type, also known as the GM Kai (the GMs designed by Katoki). When the Federation rebuilds the fleet after the OYW they standardize on the GM C-type as their main MS, although it's not like they scrapped the existing GMs either, just keeping them in reserve or for less important units and bases.IIRC I remember reading somewhere that while the GM C-type is the standard for time immediately following the OYW, the C-type's shitty performance during the events of 0083 left a bad taste in the Federation's mouth. When the Federation has to rebuild again after their fleet gets trashed during the events of 0083, they shitcan the C-type's development line and go back to the original GM to use as a base for the upgraded GM II.Note: I can't find a source for it at the moment, but if I do find it later I'll reply to myself here.
>>21745421You do know that OYW GM variants did get the GMII and GMIII upgrades. Look at the Nightseeker V. And like other anons said, different production plants. Like real life WW2 Sherman tanks, there were running changes during production within the same model numbering (M4, M4A1, M4A3). Some of the late models look different than their own early models.
>>21745421The GM IIs are more 1.5s with many being practically retrofitted 1s. Times were peaceful beforehand, when wars did heat up it was all about Rick Dias, Nemos, Hizacks, etc.
>>21745421When promotional/fluff material was released around 0080's airing, there was a redesign decision for the original MSs from 0079. I guess to gel with Izubuchi's style.
>>21745421the OVA ones are obviously redesigns. but yes, the 0079 and zeta ones look hilariously bad in comparison the difference clashes. the unfortunate side effect of having your anime be so fucking old before things started to look good in the late 80s
>>21745421This pic is BS because all the suits except for the GMII are from 0079. The Kai and Command are both attempts at "make a better GM" before they later go "fuck it, remodeling the old ones are cheaper"
>>21745584>zaku poop chute
>>21745623That's where the action stand peg goes
>>21745615>"fuck it, remodeling the old ones are cheaper"They were right. One of the Unicorn databooks clearly states the GM II surpassed the original Gundam in all regards except armor durability. Despite having good specs very few OYW GMs make that claim in their profiles.
>>21745631>zakus get pegged in the poop chuteI knew Zeeks were gay
>>21745638what did you expect from those snoutsbasically dick sucking lips
>>21745642I think I saw someone edit hentai with that weird vaccuum mouth into a Zaku snout once.
>>21745555this is what i think too, it's very similar to sherman development
>>21745634"surpassing the original gundam" isn't really that much of an achievement by mid-0080s, Gelgoog was on par with it back during the OYW. Its high mobility variants in turn were on paper superior, likewise high-spec GM variants like Sniper II reached a similar level.Granted, there's an achievement to making it at this scale, but it's still hopelessly outmatched come Gryps War and even before it. Hizack can barely handle beam weapons yet it was superior to the GM II. Likewise there's a reason AEUG got Anaheim to make the Nemo instead of having them produce GM IIs.Command and Kai meanwhile serve as bases for a number of testbed units that would in turn lead to huge developments in MS engineering.Between these two Command definitely has the more impressive record, leading to GM Custom (closely connected to the GP Project) and then GM Quel, which in turn was the start point of the Hazel line.Command / Type C meanwhile has less achievements, but it's descendants still served as test machines for Titans and Anaheim-upgraded variants in turn made a name for themselves fighting Titans as part of Keraunos.
>>21745669>leading to GM Custom (closely connected to the GP Project)Actually, GM Custom was already in production when they were still testing designing the GP prototypes. GM Custom is closely connected to the Alex NT1, not the GP project. The Powered GM is supposed to test thruster tech used for the GP units though.The GM Custom shares a bunch of parts and design with the NT1. The chest is very similar except the upper vents are covered by panels, the backpack is nearly the same except for the lack of a second beam saber, and also has the same ass skirt thrusters. They both have that maneuvering thruster on the knee front which is a bit unique and the arms are similar except the forearm on the GM Custom is smaller since it doesn't need to hide a pair of gatling guns.
>>21745669>Hizack can barely handle beam weapons yet it was superior to the GM IIIt wasn't though. The GM II is superior, hizacks were rolled out because the federation just absorbed a lot of labor and facilities. Earlier sources, like the MG manual state that they made them just because the federation didn't want their new (zeonic) engineers and facilities like A Boa Qu to get rusty. This was before AoZ retconned the hizack into an AE project. Other sources say the Hizack was adopted because it was easy to pilot and favored by new and veteran pilots alike, and it was cheap to make and maintain, and it was easy to modify for various uses. They didn't adopt any gelgoogs or act Zaku designs because performance wasn't the priority, the Hizack is based on the Zaku II family with Federation technology hacked into it. If there's a source that says it was better performing than the GM II I'd like to see it.>Likewise there's a reason AEUG got Anaheim to make the Nemo instead of having them produce GM IIs.The Nemo actually is better since it was established a long time ago that it has a full movable frame, but otherwise has better mobility and armor (gundarium alpha).
>>21746055I should correct myself (sort of). They did adopt the Gelgoog related series, the Galbaldy, but it was never mass produced like the Hizack
>>21746055>facilities like A Boa QuDidn't it get blown the fuck up
>>21746055>because it was easy to pilot and favored by new and veteran pilots alikeI don't have the screencap but Yazan had a mental breakdown refusing to pilot them and literally tried to dump his ship's into space because he hated them so much.
>>21746289No, it's literally used in Zeta as the Titan's space HQ in the last part of the show. The Gates of Zedan.
>>21746291By that point in the civil war, Hizacks were woefully inadequate, and Yazan was just saying what everyone was thinking. He was a borderline psychopath, but he could recognize and appreciate competence, which is why he was adversarial to Jamaican and Jerid, who were incompetent boobs, but pliable to Scirocco and Gady, who made sure he and the other soldiers weren't being needlessly thrown away and well-supplied with better stuff.
>>21745421eh fuck it, multiple manufacturers building to mildly marks to different spec. Happens during wartime mass production
>>21745421Now Yuo See...
>>21748103Time is not a circle, time is a cube, resulting in 4 simultaneous 24 hr. dayswithin a single rotation of Earth
>>21748120Based knower of the cube
>>21745421They were designed before banrise realize they could sell different redesigns as Very Ka or Ver 0080 as they do now for thunderbolt
>>21745555>>21748040Minor and major differences between allied manufacture locations are indeed a genuinely mentioned aspect of GM development. You had at the minimum three major locations for GM manufacture, Jaburo, Luna II, and Augusta, and each had to follow loosely compatible specs regarding what their GMs would and could be like based on what they could do and what was available, allowing everybody to pump out slightly different but nonetheless related machines.Also toy sales, different years, yadda yadda.
>>21746055>The Titans, a super elite faction within the Earth Federation whose rank is one higher than an Earth Federation Officer>Decide to use the Hizack which is inferior to the very common GM IINot a month goes by we don't have some retard trying to argue the GM II is the best grunt>but muh mass production!>the titans were a growing force and needed the mobile suitsThere are more GM IIs than Hizacks so that doesn't make any sense. Throughout all of Zeta Gundam the Titans never once use a GM II. Probably because it's an old piece of shit that blows up trying to chase a Rick Dias.>but muh databooksspecsfags are literally the worst
>>21745586Gogg =/= Hygogg
>>21750330The real answer for Hizacks is they wanted the Titans to still be using visibly 'bad guy' suits.
>>21750359True. There's a Kondo interview where he talks about some behind the scenes planning where the Titans brass were secretly Zeon, obviously didn't make it into Zeta Gundam but its a cool concept. >Well, the Titans basically fill in for Zeon, right? In fact, I recall that in the behind-the-scenes documents of the TV show, the Titans top brass was made up of remnants of Zeon. And those suits are styled like Zeon’s design-wise. The Titans used Hizacks, so clearly they used Zeon’s suits at times, but developing GMs would probably be a better use of resources, and it’s not like they wouldn’t have the parts for it. So I ended up putting those suits on Zeon’s side… [laugh]https://www.zimmerit.moe/kazuhisa-kondo-interview-gundam-mecha-advanced-operation/
>>21750389That's interesting. I always felt that giving them GMs instead of what're essentially Zakus with some small touches of feddie design language attached would've worked better for driving home the point that this is a sickness from within the Federation rather than infecting it from outside, but if they were initially conceptualised being essentially an infiltration that makes a lot of sense.
>>21750393I have got another theory: The Hizack is the Titans giving Zeon the middle finger. The Zaku II was the symbol of Zeon's might during OYW. And now it is subservient to the Federation, just like Side 3 is. The Hizack is the symbol of Zeon's capitulation.Imagine you are a Zeon soldier hiding behind the sand dune or space debris, too prideful to surrender but also too weak to do anything. Having the Hizack chasing you is probably like having your wounds salted.
>>21750389How would that even work? Wouldn't an Earthborn-only faction do some really heavy screening to ensure that "notable EF officers" such as Urth Ling and Plant Harry are legit?>>21750393I always felt that giving them GMs instead of what're essentially Zakus with some small touches of feddie design language attached would've worked better for driving home the point that this is a sickness from within the Federation rather than infecting it from outsideI think that's why some people had, and still have for some reason, a hard time realizing that it was a civil war, the mishmashed designs throw people off.>>21750524I guess I can see that. Fighting a distinct enemy doesn't demoralize people as much as seeing something so familiar mercilessly hunting and killing them.
>>21750524True, but on the other I think I'd also get satisfaction out of coming over the hell to stamp out the last of the zeeks in the symbol of feddie wartime engineering might and industrial capacity. The GM is, or at least should be treated as, a testament to the EFF's capacity to turn around anything, like a Sherman or M1 Garand is to the American WW2 war machine.Though I am a sucker for the energy of KNOCK KNOCK, FREEDOM'S HERE FUCKERS so I might be biased.>>21750582Zeta doesn't do the best job of showing that the AEUG's ultimately tied to the EFF as well, to be fair. It's much more clear about the Titans being part of the federation despite, ironically, the AEUG's gear looking more feddie.
>>21750393I completely agree, but you know how toy sponsors are, the bad guys have to look like the old bad guys so they're getting the nuzaku>>21750582>How would that workJamitov was pretty successful working his way up the ranks and backstabbing flag officers as shown in 0083, I assume a Zeon manchurian candidate, or even a Zeon sympathizer could do the same.>>21750524I like this one as well, turning the enemy's mobile suit against them is good psychological warfare. The only drawback is that some OYW veterans despise the image of the Zaku (especially with the colony massacres). Not all of course, since many soldiers prefer the ease of using the Zaku, especially ones that were captured.
>>21750591A lot of Titans officer belong to the crop that entered service after OYW though. There is a blurb in one of the setting books about the struggle between the pro-ship conservatives (old admirals who still put stock on battleships in the age of mobile suit) and the up-and-coming pro-mobile suit faction. The Titans attracted a lot of the second type because the Titans allowed them to jump ranks and do whatever they want. They are one of the reasons why the Titans put so much resources on making breakthroughs in mobile suit technology.
>>21745421how many times do i have to explain this one?
>>21750673even ignoring how this list is pretty outdated, it has a number of just plain odd and afaik sourceless connections, like Zaku II -> Gallus-J -> Zaku III or Geymalk being connected to the Dom line
>>21750673It all leads to Hobby HiZack, baby
>>21750122Augusta was a research lab/R&D center. The other major production facility besides Jaburo and Luna II was California Base after the federation recaptured it. The "model lines" mentioned by the MG manual are probably referring to where they were originally designed rather than where they were manufactured. The MG GM 2.0 manual says that California Base became the main manufacturing site of GMs (in general) towards the end of the war.
>>21750582>How would that even work? Wouldn't an Earthborn-only faction do some really heavy screening to ensure that "notable EF officers" such as Urth Ling and Plant Harry are legit?That's explained in the Zeta Gundam proposal notes that Zeonic translated>One of the major setbacks is a letter that exposes problems with the bureaucratic system in the colony. The letter describes how an overreliance on computer systems has exposed certain vulnerabilities in the system.>The loss of the family registry data is a good example. Every component of the system, from the central core to the terminal ends was destroyed by microwaves, thus permanently destroying all stored data.>On the contrary, the war demonstrated that paper filing systems were a far more effective means of storing written documentation.>Due to this loss of data, it became incredibly easy to fabricate an identity from the family registry.>Since a large portion of the Earth Federation military’s records of personnel was also lost, former Zeon soldiers were easily able to assume the identities of Earth Federation soldiers who had died in combat to enlist in the Earth Federation Army.https://www.zeonic-republic.net/?page_id=8174It almost has a luddite undertone, which kind of fits right in with Tomino I guess.
>>21750705Augusta still developed a lot of machines, like Alex (and by extension the G-IV project), G04 and G05, the entire RX-80 line, not to mention the magnetic coating technology before that
>>21750719similar idea is mentioned in Return of Johnny Ridden - the OYW wreaked so much havoc on the entire Earthsphere buerocracy was utterly fucked and many records were completely lost. Combine that with the fact ships in space can end up with destroyed engines and enough supplies to last a few months, if not years, and if you know how the system works it's relatively easy to make up a false identity based on a MIA Feddie soldier with next to no other information about them and hand it to whoever you want to
Did we really have to have this thread?The reason they look different is because they were all drawn and designed at different times irlIt's like complaining about how G-Saviour is made out of polygons but Turn-A is drawn and how that "doesn't make diegetic sense"these stupid pedantic questions are so incessant and pointless
>>21750719The funny thing is the US Government's Office of Personnel Management has huge amounts of paper records stored underground with the explicit purpose of being safe from EMP and other issues. So having backups of last resort in paper (or microfilm) form underground in some former mines or caverns has merit. It's stupid and low tech but it works.But of course it's extra bureaucracy and having to keep being fed data from the various sides and considering the bureaucratic miss the Federation always is said ideas were probably ditched as really the odds of such a calamity was next to impossible! It'd require a nuclear war or something and there's no war around after all....
>>21750737>>21750769Given the frankly absurd number of half of humanity dead inside the first few weeks of the OYW, you've got a lot of flexibility for those systems to break the fuck down regardless of how much contingency planning you did. That the EF still resembles a vaguely coherent state in 0087 is pretty impressive.
>>21750785Oh yea just trying to confirm the amount of people dead would be maddening. You may have tens of thousands if not more listed as 'dead' because their homes were listed in the area of the impact zone or in destroyed colonies. It's a logistical nightmare on par with the aftermath of a nuclear war but worse due to the larger scale of the problem. Instead of a country of a few hundred million you're dealing with billions in the colonies alone.
>>21750833On a related note I always found it funny how Gundam X's setup was 'the UC if the OYW was apocalyptic' when if the UC is already basically post-apocalyptic given the unimaginable scale they picked for OYW numbers.
>>21750835They honestly had to massively scale up the destruction in order for the UN to collapse since one of the things is that the sheer size of a world government gives it a surprising amount of fall back onto itself just due to the raw volume of bureaucratic inertia. You'd have enough chain of command and subdivisions to in essence start having regeneration of government as long as the frameworks existed. Sure EF SEA/Oceana's utterly fucked after Operation British but going up a rung or two the system is okay just missing a section and protocols can easily replace those people with replacements in interim roles in temporary locations for political organization. It's why the dropping 5th Luna even if it was a surprise drop wouldn't have killed the Federation as there'd be enough mass not damaged in order to after a rather nasty disaster start to re-establish the existing system. And with enough civil government and continuity ensured the military will continue to obey as it's designed.
>>21750895True, and I guess in some ways having total destruction in places is better than more evenly spread devastation. Putting aside the longer term climate impact of course, you don't exactly need to send much aid to Sydney or Canberra after Operation British and you can just kind of cross off any assets that weren't able to get out.That same level of total death and destruction but spread over all of Australia evenly could've created arguably more problems.
>>21750763Did you reall have to post your autistic post in this thread?You're a proven faggot by your pointless reply alone.
>>21750649Indeed indeed, and they had some great designs too
>>21750922I would argue lorefaggotry is even more pointless than stating the obvious.
>>21750922>autism is not being autisticlmaoMy post is the opposite of autism and you can't handle the actual answer to your questionstay mad
>>21750763>noooooo stop having fun!
>>21755307Quote me where I said that
>>21755324I said quote me. You were unable.I win.
>>21755334the special olympics
>>21745669>surprising RX-78 Gundam The GM 1 technically already surprised the prototype Gundam and GM variants like the Sniper C already outperformed the Rx-78-2. Since GM production and advancement continued, it makes sense that future GMs like GMII would be better than grandpa. It’s not really hard. It just shows that Amuro was just THAT good of a pilot. >Does that mean that Amuro could win in a GM?Amuro in a command unit / Sniper/ Dominance/ Type C / would be fine but most likely can’t keep up with the elemeth, Big Zam, or Zeong. It makes me wonder how he’d perform if he was in a Gelgoog, given it was already superior to the Gundam?
>>21755804>Sniper C already outperformed the Rx-78-2The Sniper Custom is said to rival or be comparable to the Gundam, not outperforming it. Even the GM Sniper II, although noted for having superior specs, is said to match the Gundam's performance.
>>21755804>It makes me wonder how he’d perform if he was in a Gelgoog, given it was already superior to the Gundam?Another one that was noted for having good specs but only ever stated to be comparable to or sometimes designed with the intent of surpassing the Federation's MS.
>>21745421The answer is because Gato nuked the Federation Space Fleet. So the Federation had to scramble to build replacement GMs fast and cheaply. So they used older parts and upgraded retired GMs into GM II'sIt's why 0083 Salamis look very different to Zeta Gundam Salamis. Gato nuked the fleet and the Federation scrambled to rebuild the fleet as cheaply as possible.
>>21745421Different factories churning out frames that share the same vague proportions which possess comparable technical specs. For historic comparison, both the Panzer IV and M4 Sherman had variants across factories that often radically differed in both construction method and silhouette, even swapping out certain parts like bogeys and idlers.