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I didn't remember this whole NTR from when I saw this years ago.

Then later Kou seems to not care. Wtf...
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Rangeban 0083 threads.
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>>21258792
Based as always.
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>>21258787
why are the subtitles orange?
>>
>Actively participates in a colony drop
>The guy who tried to stop her and her boyfriend goes to prison
>She gets off scot-free
The most realistic depiction of a woman in all of fiction.
>>
>>21258796

Why?
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>>21258787
She's literally Sayla if Sayla picked Char.
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>>21258792
fpbp
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>>21259134
NANOCARROTS, SON
>>
>Gets cucked by a guy completely subservient to him
>wears a mask for the rest of his life saying he wants to cut off all emotion

Kou got hit hard, but worked through it. Iron Mask reacted pretty pathetically.
>>
i hope this is a joke
i dont think zoomer/incels watch 0083
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>>21258787
Someone needs to make a fan edit of this, where cuts love triangle out, like won't even be hard to do just few lines and scenes.
>>
>>21258787
This is why I don't know how 0083 gets rated so highly when it has this bullshit in its second half
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>>21259901
Because it looks cool. This is literally all that matters.
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>>21260202

It's funny the amount of people who will argue that for 0083, and then say that Unicorn is shit and is only popular because it's pretty.
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>>21259435
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>>21260221
>comparing the beautiful animation of 0083 to the cgi shitfest of unicorn
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>>21260768

Exhibit A presents itself, I see.
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>>21260787
he's right tho
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>>21258787
>be in love
>guy just disappears
>no argument, no breakup, no chance for anything in the relationship to go sour
That kind of thing makes you carry a torch for someone for a long time. For a long time, she threw herself into her work and didn't try to replace Gato. Then when she finally let herself open up to someone else, Gato showed up again. Now the new flame is about to kill the old flame that she never let go of. If she let Carrots kill Gato, she would be back to being alone because the man she wants to love would suddenly become the man who killed the mans she loved and she'd never be able to look at him the same way again.

Also, as the dialogue clearly states there was already no way they could have stopped the colony from falling so you can't blame that on her. Also Gato still dies only a few minutes later, so she doesn't help him escape.
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>>21259435
Then again, if my wife ran off with this guy, I would be insecure about my looks too
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>>21259435
his cuckoldry resulted in the deaths of innocents via killer robots. its safe to say, Iron Mask was a real jerk
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>>21259901
Because it's a minor aspect of it that people blow out of all proportion.
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>>21258792
Based Wufei.
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>>21258787
>I probably shouldn't be complicit in the deaths of millions but upper management at Anaheim says we have to shift the new MS line next year

Basically just that.
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>>21260875
She was attracted to his immense cranium, filled with the baking knowledge of the entire earth sphere
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>>21260894
wtf I love Nina now?
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>>21258787
>>21259812
>>21259901
egglet take

0083 shows a highly motivated antagonist beat a poorly motivated protagonist. You're supposed to root for Gato in the second half

More shows need to do this. It's boring knowing the meek good guy is going to win automatically in every anime
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>>21261142
> second half
The director got changed halfway, which is why gato is suddenly le good guy. None of this ntr shit was planned originally
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>>21261149

The director did not change at the half way point. Imanishi was in charge of the show alongside Mitsuko Kase from the second episode, and had joint director status until Kase left after episode 6. Imanishi was involved in storyboarding from episode 2 as well, which is usually where directors make themselves most known during a production. The departure of Kase is probably what you're thinking of as the primary cause for the change in direction of the show, since Imanishi was now in sole control, but he'd been partnered with Kase from episode 2 as director.
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>>21259901
It doesn't help that the first half is 70% Monsha
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>>21258787
How many times do we have to go over this?
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>>21259901
>I don't know how 0083 gets rated so highly
It's not. 0083 is only liked by people who don't like original UC Gundam and one certain shitposter around here.
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>>21261795
>0083 is only liked by people who don't like original UC Gundam
I like both, kid.
>and one certain shitposter
Can't wait for you to accuse me of being it.
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>>21261795
>>21261193
Everyone I know likes it.

I went in expecting to hate it. I ended up liking it because it defied my expectations in the second half in almost every way
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>>21260221
unicorn doesn't look good
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>>21258787
>NTR
Who get's cucked? Kou never shot his shot with Nina. She was waiting for somebody to fill the void left by Gato who she was still in love with.
Although the execution was a little sloppy, I think this revelation was a bold choice. I agree with >>21261142 that it was refreshing to see the "good guy" lack confidence (despite his skill as a pilot) while the "bad guy" courageously presses on, determined and motivated. This is just my hot take, but I think Kou represents the modern "herbivore male" while Gato represents a "Nippon Danji" and the Bushido spirit.
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Gato's confidence always felt more like desperation than actual resolve.
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>>21262590

It was neither. He's a zealot, which is its own brand of confidence and motivation.
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>>21262590
God I hate Gato. I was neutral to him when I watched it at first, but over time I hated him.
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If Gato was cool he would have piloted a Zimmad MS and not a Zeonic MS.
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>>21263129
My brother in Christ, that has already been part of the extended lore for the last ~19 years.
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>>21263165
But he ditched the pure and honest Rick Dom for a Gelgoog, he calls himself noble yet betrayed the trust of a beloved MS for some newer model.
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>>21261795
I like both, even if I only like 0083 because it has pretty animations and combat
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>>21263174
nigga why don't you go complain that he touched an anaheim fed MS and got all its cooties then
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>>21263174
You wouldn't have traded up to the most beautiful MS ever made?
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>>21263383
But the Baund Doc wasn't available at that time.
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>>21261142

Yes.
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>>21262085
>but I think Kou represents the modern "herbivore male" while Gato represents a "Nippon Danji" and the Bushido spirit
0083 OVA is heavily anti-"Yamato Damashii" then >>21262590
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>>21262085
makes sense since zeon is basically empire of japan
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>>21265257

No, 0083 is all in on it and Imanishi fucking adores Gato; he's just blind to the unintentional hypocrisy he creates.
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>>21258787

>Then later Kou seems to not care. Wtf...

She's dead to him, she caused thousands of deaths all because she momentarily wanted space nazi cock.
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>>21260880
>minor aspect
>pretty much completely changes the perspective we had of the main characters for the worse in a way that actually hurts the story
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>>21261142
>a highly motivated antagonist
does it really count when you're just a brainwashed dog?
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Is Rebellion still ongoing? Last I saw was Gato had a Efreet/Gelgoogle hybrid and they're entering the Hizack era.

>>21270529
Amazing.
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>>21258787
People meme about her cucking Kou, but on a rewatch I'd say it's less her choosing Gato and more her trying to prevent them from killing each other because she has feelings for both. I'm pretty sure if the situation was reversed and Gato had the upper hand she would have saved Kou.
Still fucked up she helped the crazy mass murdering terrorist, but eh.
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>>21260826
>>21270743
fuckin this. And it was obvious too but modern day anons can only think in terms of chad vs virgin, cucking and some other disgusting shit
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Speaking of unhinged blondes, can someone please explain what the fuck Katejina's problem was?
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>>21271115
xx chromosome.
>>
Stardust Memory is a huge blackpill, but I dunno if it's malicious, I think it was trying to warn japanese teens about "love".
Also read the lyrics for the opening theme "THE WINNER"
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>>21271115
Interestingly towards the end of the manga retelling the way Nina's bouncing between helping either side and trying to force a false peace because she doesn't know what she wants and just wants to stop having to choose sorta reminds me of Katejina but she's not as aware of what's going on to literally talk about how making the two of them fight makes her feel good.
>>21270570
It's almost certainly the guy who looked up to Gato doing it. Kou butterfingersed that escape pod like a kilometer or more above ground. That shit cracked like an egg unless it was built like a reentry capsule, had its own parachutes, and landed in water.

Which I guess is possible, but I don't think fits the theme.
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>>21260221
I like Unicorn's grunt fights but 0083 blows Unicorn out the fucking water c'mon
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>>21258787
Chuck Keith was the real winner
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Im watching 0083 right now and Im so confused as to why Kou gets shat on at basically every opportunity
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>>21258787
So she intentionally prepped unit 2 to be stolen with the nuke right?
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>>21274087
That's one way of seeing it.
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>>21265513
>he's not motivated, passionate, or stoked with zealous fervor, he's brainwashed
weird take but ok
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>>21261142
No thanks, can't root for someone who's that much of a hypocrite, nevermind that they only make it work by making everyone involved act completely retarded
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>>21278447

It's a common take, even if you find it weird, because Gato not only never actually considers or questions what he's doing in any fashion despite setting out to restart an intensenly bloody war that had finished several years previously in any fashion, but both he and Gato have a warped view of the actual ideology they claim to be following that doesn't actually match what we see previously at all and just comes off as them huffing some serious farts to arrive at that conclusion. Nowhere in the original show, movies, novels etc. does Gihren ever talk about caring for the future of Spacenoids as a whole, but they are convinced that he's some kind of revolutionary God and are so repulsed by the rest of his family that they literally abandon ship the second they even think he might be dead. They never confirm it with anyone; they just assume they're right given circumstantial evidence, and leave.

Plus, he talks a big game about how Kou needs to stand back and look at the big picture if he wants to be more than a common grunt and has to have ideals; but he's full of shit, since even with all his talk of idealism, his actions were still never more than those of a pawn in someone else's plan that ended up empowering the very things he was so obsessed with fighting against.

Gato is motivated, passionate and zealous; but none of that makes him not brainwashed, because those are not mutually exclusive and, often seen as hallmarks of being brainwashed in the first place.
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>>21258787
>Nina
>Thinking
Good one
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>>21274087
IIRC, the GP-02 had Zeon engineers working on it so it may have been them instead of Nina.
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>>21265279
It also doesn't help that Gato and Delaz are both Gihren zealots. Of all the Zabis to pick you actually picked the guy the original show literally compared to Hitler, by his own father that he murders later to ensure no peace ever.
Gato represents the worst in the Zeon apologist part of the Japanese creative community.
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>>21280276

They picked Gihren because he was the leader (i.e. the actual, real leader and not a figurehead like Degwin), and literally nothing else about his character mattered because they ignored or re-wrote everything else to suit their own purposes anyway. According to Gato and Delaz, Gihren was fighting a revolutionary war for the freedom of all Spacenoids; which is complete and utter horseshit. The revolution bit at least matches some rhetoric that is in 0079, though I'm not sure anyone in the show itself calls the war a revolution and I only remember the narrator calling it that, but neither Gihren nor any of the other Zabis gave a single solitary fuck about any of the other Sides beyond Side 3. Which is why they were happy to attack 4 of them as their opening to the war, slaughtering literally billions of people.

Only, because no-one else actually gives any other view on the matter, it comes off as being a completely straight and unironic view by Gato and Delaz that represents not just what they think, but what the show in general thinks of Gihren, despite bearing no similarity to anything that came before it. So Gihren could have been eating livd babies washed down with the blood of conscripts for brunch on the daily, and keeping a 6 year named Gato Jr. as a sex slave during the events of 0079 and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to the writing of 0083, because 0083 would just ignore it anyway.
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>>21263165

AHHH I want volume 18 so bad! I never thought I would give a shit about Mosha of all people!!!
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>>21261142
More like:
>poorly motivated cardboard cutout protagonist
>poorly motivated cardboard cutout antagonist
>poorly motivated bipolar girlfriend
>South Burning: the only character that doesn't suck
>peanut gallery cast of boring motherfuckers
It's impressive how you have great animation, a cool (idea for a) plot, and you sabotage it by filling it with most milquetoast characters possible
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>>21281296
Rebellion really made his character do a 180 in the new shit
They gutted him and replaced him with someone actually likable now that burning is dead.
reminds me of Kai's character arc in 079 after his gf died.
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>>21281296
Doesn't "volume 18" actually come with some new name and is called a spinoff or something? I'm not sure but they might have actually reset the volume numbering to 1 with this new story.
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>>21281341
cima was cool
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>>21281748

> poorly motivated dommy mommy

The second part of that statement is all a lot of people care about though; especially if they can point at supplementary material to say she's got more going on. She's as shallow as a two day puddle in the actual show though.
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>>21278990
Coming in to this thread to say that lost cause fighters like this are a very real phenomenon. You could come up with at least 10 reasons why a man whose life was completely warped and reshapen by a war would be unable to let go. Gato was an ace, fighting is what he was good at. By being on the losing side he was denied glory. His fighting and his comrades dying was for nothing. Psychologically, it was easier to never admit defeat. Gato saw himself as a soldier carrying out a 3-4 year long mission. The war was never over for him.
He's only as "brainwashed" as any other soldier. Some may wish to go home but some live to win. Besides, that Delasze guy had the rank to be the leader, but Gato was the one really leading operation stardust. His charisma and passion and planning and piloting got that nuke into the feddie review. A man like that isn't really a pawn. Just because he was actually loyal to a faction, unlike say, char, doesn't mean he was a pawn. Char can't stand his freedom and becomes listless anyway. Who else in the series do you think is more free than Gato? How is being loyal to Lalah, or revenge, really better than loyalty to zeon/Gihren?
>Muh ideals
I don't think he would have fought for aeug or any other faction. It was zeon or nothing. He liked the flag he liked the uniform, and again, he never saw them as being truly defeated.

Also, yea idk why the love triangle triggers people here so much. It was kind of a stupid drama bomb that makes little sense, but it wasn't intended to be a malicious attack on Kou or the audience. Nina had feelings for two men. She's a flakey normie woman. If this blackpilled you then you're too sensitive or something.

Also worth noting that she's a spacenoid arms dealer. She doesn't see the federation as the "good guys" like you do. She just tryna fuck. No ideals.
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>>21281411

Yeah, they turned what was essent4ially a joke character into a real character. It's really unexpected and done surprisingly really well. He has things like... a motivation, character arcs, dialogue, goals for 'Funny drunk pervert man!'
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>>21282173

At no point did I say "lost causers" aren't real anon; only that people consider Gato brainwashed for a few reasons, one of which is because he's a dedicated lost causer. Which not all soldiers are, contrary to your assertion that Gato specifically is just as brainwashed as any other soldier. A lot of soldiers question their orders or the overall war they're embroiled in, and we see soldiers do that regularly in 0079, Zeta, ZZ etc. At no point does Gato question any of it though, despite lecturing Kou about how a soldier has to be able to see the bigger picture if he wants to be more than a common grunt.

As to Gato being a pawn? Again, I did not say he's a pawn because he's loyal; I said he's a pawn because he's ultimately just helping complete someone else's plan to empower his enemies i.e. the Titans. Which he is, and which is just more proof that despite all his grand talk to Kou about ideals and seeing the bigger picture, he was ultimately just a peon himself. Gato isn't free because Gato specifically has chained himself to one set of ideals he cannot let go of or look past no matter how much those ideals are hurting him, the people around him or the world in general. He'd see the world burnt to a cinder before he'd give up on them. Basically anyone you can name in the franchise is more free than him.

His loyalty, ideals etc. are all in service of a completely twisted image of the one specific person he's loyal to though, because the Gihren he speaks of doesn't match the Gihren portrayed in anything else even slightly. Gato was not "Zeon or nothing", he was "Gihren or nothing"; including Gihren's siblings. If he couldn't fight under Gihren then he'd prefer not to fight at all, and that included Kycilia, who he saw as a backstabbing bitch. Which is hilarious, since so was Gihren. Again though, he had a completely warped view of Gihren, which is just more proof that he's brainwashed, not loyal.
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>>21282173
Most men are absolutely bootyblasted over the idea that a woman has had a romantic interest besides them. And since Kou is such a spaghetti spilling faggot, they self insert into him and get their feelings crushed vicariously when Kou doesn't win the pussy prize for simply being the main character.
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>>21282173
>>21282199

Actually, to add to this, it's kind of funny that Gato is so ass blasted over Zeon having lost the One Year War, considering that if Delaz hadn't abandoned A Baoa Qu, the war would probably have gone on longer at the very least and Zeon may have been able to pull out a win even with all the Zabis dead if a charismatic leader had managed to claw some power out of that fustercluck before the Federation could push into Side 3. They could even have used the threat of a colony laser attack to hold the Federation off for a time, since just threatening it may be enough to get the Federation to hold back, even if the colony laser is inoperable in reality.

Neither Delaz or Gato would ever have fought under Kycilia though, or probably anyone else. So they turned tail and fucked off, leaving the rest of their comrades to burn and Side 3 to it's fate, because fuck Kycilia I guess. Boy they sure are "loyal".
>>
I didn't care about the past relationship angle (thought it seemed oddly coincidental) I was more bugged by her stopping Kou from stopping Gato.
They could have had no romantic intentions between each other and it still would have been bad.
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>>21282243

She didn't stop Kou from stopping Gato, she stopped Kou from killing Gato after Gato had already locked in the final trajectory changes for the colony. Kou had arrived to late to stop Gato, and while Nina could potentially have stopped him from making those trajectory changes, she couldn't plausibly have done so because she's not a trained soldier or shot, and all he really needed was a few seconds to push a big button to finish it out.
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>>21263464
Based
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>>21281748
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>>21281966
>She's as shallow as a two day puddle in the actual show though.
Yeah and that's kind of annoying that you can learn more about her from supplementary material that wasn't in the anime.
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>>21281296
>>21281411
>>21282199
Expanding his vicious/vindictive streak but also giving him a redemption arc is nice.

I ALMOST want the guybin the colony to be the real Gato and notna fake, just so he can lose to Monsha of all people.
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>>21282887

I was originally reading Rebellion because I wanted more Cima, but fuck, did Monsha steal the show. They made Kou and Chuck real characters, but they turned Monsha into a real, nuanced human being. I ended up more interested in him than Dommy Mommy (mainly because I found her new 'apprentice' character annoying and 1 dimensional)
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>>21281966
At least she tried to save her crew unlike Gato.
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>>21282917
pube stubble Cima >>>>>>>>>>>>> poop Cima
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>>21282917
Why?! Just why?! This has got to be the ugliest bitch in gundam lmao
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>>21282209
He gives speeches to kou specifically, this is because kou doesn't really seem to have a stake in the war as far as protagonists go. Kou doesn't know why he fights. His main focus is Nina, which ends up biting him in the ass. Loving people when you're a soldier often leads to heartbreak. Gato isn't worried about that shit and he's not some postmodernist second guessing and critiquing every aspect of his faction. Good soldiers follow orders. Maybe he's not a romantic man, or cut out to be a sociology professor. But he's a good soldier and that's all he needs to be. Stardust was a success and he was a total criminal on the run, it was always going to keep escalating for him until he inevitably dies.

I remember delaz telling him him that they were doing a tactical retreat so they could strike later unexpectedly. I don't really remember them hating kycilia, their motivation was that zeon was totally outnumbered and the battle was already a sure outcome.
>>21282237
I've seen posts here that show the total numbers at A Boa Qu and zeon was outnumbered significantly. At that point earth had to exterminate what was left of an enemy that wouldn't surrender. Delaz and Gato wouldn't have single-handedly won the battle, they explicitly say the situation is fucked. Had Gato blown up the white base and Gundam itself plus 4 more ships, zeon still woulda lost. And even if A Boa Qu was won, Feddies would have regrouped and made another push sooner or later.

Operation stardust was the most mayhem they could possibly cause and they succeeded. The Titans being formed isn't as big of a fuckup on Gato's part as people say, I mean zeon in some way shape or form outlasted the Titans, who just made asses of themselves and made spacenoids distrust the federation.

Back to the main point. I think Gato is a samurai type character. Would fall on his own sword for Lord and banner. Virtue or cringe? Retarded or based? Who can say?
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>>21281966
actually hate her in all the extra stuff and only like how she is in the show
also she had cool suits
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>>21283501
>zeon in some way shape or form outlasted the Titans
Thanks to Axis Zeon, which was a different faction from Delaz's fleet. Gato really only managed to get Bask and Jamitov into power.
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>>21283501
Are you really giving Gato credit for Kcyllia and Mquve's factions fucking off to deep space while also "who can say"ing away Gato being perfectly fine with murdering millions and helping give birth to the Titans? The fucking Titans? Really?
The very fact that Gato didn't find dropping a colony appalling already makes him a fucking evil lunatic. Him being tied to Gihren, an unironic space wizard superior race hardliner who murdered his own father just to keep the war going, makes him an even bigger fucking lunatic. There is no virtue in anything he did or believed. He might actually be one of the most evil people in all of UC because there is not other thoughts in his head and he believes all that shit is righteous.
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>>21283501

> Good soldiers follow orders.

You need to make up your mind on this, because at the moment you're claiming that Gato is a good soldier because he just follows orders AND that he's lecturing Kou because Kou doesn't know why he fights i.e. that he's just following orders. So Kou is apparently a good soldier too, and really, isn't that all he needs to be by your argument? And no, Kou's main focus is not Nina before you try to argue that it's not the same for Kou because of that. He immediately rushes to stop the GP-02 as soon as he realizes it's being stolen. Doing so had nothing to do with Nina and a lot of his actions througout the OVA are not predicated on Nina.

> Gato isn't worried about that shit and he's not some postmodernist second guessing and critiquing every aspect of his faction.

What kind of horseshit is this? "Soldiers questioning orders" is not just a recent, 21st century phenomenon anon. It's been a thing for literally all of known human history, and plays a part in some of the oldest known stories, including things like the Iliad where Thersites is used by Homer to deflect criticism of the war and it's stupidity by having the ugliest man imaginable question the war, and thus stop the audience doing so since no-one would want to identify with such an ugly person. Thersites was quesitoning the war though, showing it's enough of a concern for Homer to address it.

> I don't really remember them hating kycilia

When Delaz is told that Gihren has been killed and Kycilia has assumed command, Delaz angrily shouts that Kycilia planned this all along and then immediately orders a retreat. No "the battle is already lost", no "the situation is fucked no matter what we do" etc. as you stated; he just orders an immediate retreat because they "have to live to carry on the will of their leader" i.e. Gihren. Not Kycilia, who Delaz refuses to follow.
>>
> I've seen posts here that show the total numbers at A Boa Qu and zeon was outnumbered significantly.

The Federation outnumbered Zeon significantly when initially grouping; the use of the colony laser negated that, because it destroyed about a 1/3rd of the Federation's forces.

> And even if A Boa Qu was won, Feddies would have regrouped and made another push sooner or later.

Anon, I literally said that the war would continue and probably push into Side 3; what did you think that meant? Delaz and Gato WANT the war to continue though, and that means accepting the possibility of it affecting Side 3 to grasp the opportunity to bloody the Federation.

> The Titans being formed isn't as big of a fuckup on Gato's part as people say, I mean zeon in some way shape or form outlasted the Titans

No, as pointed out elsewhere, the reason that Zeon outlasted the Titans is because of Neo Zeon (both forms); which would have existed regardless of what Delaz and Gato did. Zeon outlasting the Titans had nothing to do with Delaz' fleet or Gato's actions. Their effect started and stopped with the Titans.
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> I think Gato is a samurai type character. Would fall on his own sword for Lord and banner. Virtue or cringe? Retarded or based? Who can say?

I'd say Rebellion makes that undeniable even if it wasn't clear beforehand. As to who can say? What a weak fucking argument. The audience can say. Art and narrative is not some mystic land, hidden in a veiled dimension; it exists to comment upon and be commented on. Different people can have different opinions on it, but that difference of opinion doesn't mean no-one can have any opinion at all. Gato was a hypocritical moron, who lectured people on failures he himself was guilty of but blind to, and despite causing so much mindless death and destruction, didn't actually achieve anything except empowering his enemies because of it. And even if someone thinks that's good and cool because he's so noble and idealistic, their opinion doesn't change the actual outcome and facts of what he achieved. Which is not just nothing, but to actively hurt his own side, and thus, less than nothing. Spacenoids would have been better off if he'd done nothing at all, but Gato's pride was so hung on ideals we never see him question or explain and winning that he couldn't not keep fighting despite that.

>>21283385

Cima openly sneered when he flagship is destroyed, with her only reaction being "I told you so" before forgetting about them completely. When the Birmingham shoots at her fleet and destroys a ship, her reaction is "Phew, they're shooting to miss ME!" Cima did not give one single solitary fuck about anyone but herself.
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>>21282614
She looks like a woman who likes to molest brown tomboys
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>>21283933
If anything, 0083s insertion of Gato and Delaz is as bad as Unicorn's LaPlace retcons. The formation of the Titans would have never happened without Operation Stardust making the Gryps Conflict and both Neo Zeon wars Gato's fault in the first place, just like all of late UC can be blamed on Mineva opening the box.
Gato essentially doomed all spacenoids with his "ideals" and actions just like how Mineva and Banagher actually snuffed out possibility with their own actions.
Both 0083 and Unicorn turned normal corrupt bureaucracy and complacency into actively malicious consequences robbing the original 0079 through CCA of their original intent.
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>>21284465
Gato is a fucking idiot, what else is new?
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>>21283501
>Operation stardust was the most mayhem they could possibly cause and they succeeded. The Titans being formed isn't as big of a fuckup on Gato's part as people say, I mean zeon in some way shape or form outlasted the Titans, who just made asses of themselves and made spacenoids distrust the federation.
what a load of shit, all Stardust did was permanently FUCK Zeon in the mind of the federation long term, and the Gihren faction as it stood didn't exist past that point, Axis fuckers didn't even like Gihren and those same fucks didn't like Axis, so you can't even give Gato and Delaz credit for that.
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>>21284976
>all Stardust did was permanently FUCK Zeon in the mind of the federation long term
None of the Zeon remnant factions ever really stood a chance of existing alongside the Federation peacefully. Even if you take out the Delaz fleet, the rest of them literally exist because they don't want to live quietly as Fed citizens and they have the need to take up arms to resist or attack the Feds.

Haman's faction literally came back to the Earthsphere with the aim of personally conquering the Earth. Char's faction wanted to force mass emigration into space under the real threat of massive indiscriminate death by asteroid drop. Full Frontal's aim was to overpower the Earth financially by consolidating the colonies in a economic union. Narrative's Sleeves remnants were at best a small personal army that normally wasn't doing much but when led by Zoltan they almost literally burnt up the entire Earthsphere. Mars Zeon wants to batter the Feds to death with a massive mountain railgun to launch interplanetary rock projectiles.
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>>21283501
>Kou doesn't know why he fights. His main focus is Nina, which ends up biting him in the ass.
i'd say his main motivation for doing anything is to show that he is more mature than everyone thinks. many of his interaction with nina is focused on proving he is capable in his own right.
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>>21285234
You'd be right if 0083 didn't exist. Because it does exist Gato and Delaz are directly responsible for empowering the people who caused the Gryps War.
Char didn't revert back to a maniac until the conclusion of the Gryps war. Full Frontal would've never been made if CCA never happened. Narrative's sleeves wouldn't even have existed, again, because CCA wouldn't have happened.
This is the problem with inserting stories like Stardust Memory into an established canon and creating conspiracies where the Titans only got power because they used the Delaz fleet to wipe out the upper brass and gain complete control of the military hardliners. Everything can be squarely blamed on Gato and Delaz.
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>>21278990
I’m more curious why despite the animation being the main focus of accolades, nobody ever points out how Gato totally looks like a scrub starting from the very first minute of the anime, and proceeds to never ever pull off any maneuver that would justify him being called the Nightmare of Solomon. It’s one thing if a manga adaptation or whatever does a better job, but the anime despite how well it looked just made the story seem like some ghetto outsourced DLC story where a bunch of nobodies fight a bunch of nobodies.

I don’t even remember what justification they had for Kou to keep using the Gundam instead of giving it to his superior, ya know the one who dies later on. Wasn’t he actually a decent pilot to begin with?

Either way, Char at least clowned Amuro hard early on with a huge suit disadvantage and intentionally spared the crew for his revenge, but Gato didn’t have any reasons right? He had a Gundam too, the load out doesn’t matter much it’s a fact that his suit could deal fatal damage to Kou, so what the hell was stopping him from stomping everyone if he was hot shit?
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>>21285263
>I don’t even remember what justification they had for Kou to keep using the Gundam instead of giving it to his superior, ya know the one who dies later on. Wasn’t he actually a decent pilot to begin with?
Neither Burning nor Allen wanted to pilot the Gundam. It's kinda implied that wanting to pilot the Gundam because it's the famous hero mech is a childish thing that only Kou and Monsha were being shitty brats about.

>but Gato didn’t have any reasons right?
>so what the hell was stopping him from stomping everyone if he was hot shit?
Absolutely no reason other than arbitrary "we really should get going since this is a heist but I'm gonna spend a few minutes pummeling you with non-lethal attacks". You could say that Gato letting Kou go after their first fight ended up being a problem because Kou ended up doing quite a lot more than the average Fed pilot to hurt the Delaz movement, although he still failed to stop their operation.

Really, the problem with 0083 feels like they had this idea in their minds but the storyboarding is kinda sloppy and poorly executed. Just look at this webm and how it doesn't make sense that it somehow sliced all the way through but didn't cut the cables.
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>>21285367
>Neither Burning nor Allen wanted to pilot the Gundam. It's kinda implied that wanting to pilot the Gundam because it's the famous hero mech is a childish thing that only Kou and Monsha were being shitty brats about.

I don’t think this is a valid reason unless what Burning was using was strong enough that familiarization alone would have made it a wiser choice than than the Gundam. I know Stardust takes place after shit like Gelgoogs came out but I honestly don’t remember the exact power levels of each suit during the anime. It just felt like Kou was Amuro all over again, which gives the impression the Gundam was at least reasonably a big upgrade.
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>>21287344
>I don’t think this is a valid reason unless what Burning was using was strong enough that familiarization alone would have made it a wiser choice than than the Gundam.
Other than the fact that Burning wasn't interested, there was a poorly explained macguffin. After the small amount of time where Kou unofficially used the GP01 for the first few episodes, Nina says in the dialogue that the battle data indicates Kou is the best pilot because he has some kind of anime protagonist thing where he can bring out the Gundam's true potential. I'm not lying.

Burning is a good combat pilot, but anyone would need time to adjust to the Gundam. Also, there's the fact that is quickly glossed over that Burning and Kou were having regular training flights during the time that Albion was in space. The dialogue implies that Kou has never been able to land a hit on Burning during these training matches despite having the superior GP01Fb since he's amazed and almost in disbelief when he manages to stay locked onto Burning's GM Custom long enough for the system to register a hit.

Also there's the fact that the animation showed that shortly before Burning's death, he felt like he was getting old and hitting his limits both physically and mentally. Aside from not having an interest in being a test pilot, he was having vision problems while pulling off certain high G maneuvers and mentally not exactly perfect feeling as he was lonesome and regretful lately, looking at pictures of his ex-wife and advising Kou to enjoy the time he has now with Nina. It's not like he was neglecting his health either since he did go in for regular checkups with the Albion's doctor.

>It just felt like Kou was Amuro all over again, which gives the impression the Gundam was at least reasonably a big upgrade.
Technically the Gundam is very much a big upgrade.
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>>21258787
This bitch ruined that show at the end
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>>21259901
0083's writing sucks so much unwashed dick, but man the robots are cool.
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>>21287623
You can only bring out a Gundam's full potential if you are willing to try absolutely stupid shit that only it can pull off and would get you turned to paste in any other suit
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>>21285367

> It's kinda implied that wanting to pilot the Gundam because it's the famous hero mech is a childish thing that only Kou and Monsha were being shitty brats about.

This is kind of dumb. Neither of them want to pilot the Gundam because "it's the famous hero mech" for a start, and Kou wants to pilot it because it's a better machine than something like a GM while both Kou and Monsha have attached their ego to piloting it in different ways. The second part might be childish, but both neither is predicated on the Gundam being a hero machine.

>>21287623

> Burning is a good combat pilot, but anyone would need time to adjust to the Gundam

People really overplay the importance of familiarity, though usually in reference to why Char lost a particular fight in the original show; so at least this is a new variation on the theme. That said though, a new military unit is not going to have radically different controls to previous generation units and while it might have a few new buttons, panels and greater performance, it's not something you need months of practice to familiarize yourself with. Gato was fairly comfortable with the GP-02 right off the bat for one, and that was built for a completely different faction and aesthetic than he's trained with.

A pilot experienced with a particular machine might know it's exact limits and be able to exploit it in ways someone green with it couldn't, but that does not mean someone new to it is just going to be stumbling around like a fawn. The performance increase a unit like the GP-01 would offer over the GM Custom Burning used would more than offset any problems lack of familiarity with the unit might cause an experiened pilot like Burning.
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>>21258792
Most of the characters in that show are fucking terrible though.
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>>21261142

I find this to be a weird take because if the antagonist is supposed to be the one you're rooting for then...why aren't they the protagonist in the first place? A protagonist just being the character a story follows, and not inherently tied to the character's morality, personality, goals etc. at all. A protagonist does not need to be a "meek good guy", and I wouldn't describe any of the previous Gundam protagonists beyond perhaps Al as that anyway. I definitely wouldn't describe Amuro, Kamille or Judau as "meek" for one, even if they're "good guys".

If the audience is supposed to be rooting for the highly motivated antagonist and not the poorly motivated protagonist though, then the antagonist is the more interesting character and the story should be following him because he's the more interesting character who is doing more interesting things. If you want a reason why more stories don't do things like that then it's probably because more stories follow the interesting character, whether they're a good guy or not, and not the less interesting one. The antagonist is often cooler in a lot of stories, but usually isn't notably more interesting; though then again, I'd say the same is broadly true of Gato. I say broadly, because while I can certainly see why someone would think he's cooler, I definitely don't think he's interesting. I don't think any of 0083's cast are interesting though. Gato's coolness is very superficial too, beyond even that of someone like Char.
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>>21258787
>Wtf was Nina thinking?
A cheap trick by the writers to ignite cheap drama, even possibly a psy-ops.

This is the very reason why you should not get affected by fiction.
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>>21261142
and Front Mission has to do with this because.....
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>>21289607
Because it’s a contrarian opinion people nowadays like to make.
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I want both of them
older gundam women are the best
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>>21300471
breuh
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>>21300471
>>21300475
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>>21289607
Sometimes "I want to see what this creaxzy hypeman does next" works better with a villain that's not the main POV.

Not saying I would quite describe it as "Rooting for him," but I can get the general vibe.
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>>21300475
who wants to be smothered by that cigarette stenched and absolutely ruined pussy
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>>21259435

I've always wondered if this guy was the most flimsy excuse for Tomino exploring and portraying the woes of his own love life during the early 90's or if something went on behind the scenes.
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>>21311043

Tomino married someone referred to as Ako in a few books (though it could just be a discrete name to keep her identity private) and had two daughters with her by the early 90s. I know people here like to grind the rumor mill over his jealousy of Nagano's marriage, but Tomino was the best man at his wedding if I recall, so that rumor is almost certainly empty and it's far more likely that Tomino's love life is unremarkable and Iron Mask was just him writing a character with different motivations in order to differentiate the character from others he'd done. It's not like there hadn't been drama in the love lives of Char, Chrocile, Luin etc. throughout the years too.
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>>21311139

Tomino married Ako in 1971 specifically, sorry. I forgot to include the date of marriage. He was roughly 20 years married by the time he was making F91, essentially.
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>>21311043
>>21311139
I'm not sure where this fake rivalry between Tomino and Nagano started. Tomino was always Nagano's biggest supporter during the 80s according to Nagano's own interviews.
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>>21311155
>I'm not sure where this fake rivalry between Tomino and Nagano started.

Nagano stopped working with Tomino in-between Mobile Suit Z Gundam (1985-1986) and Brain Powerd (1998).
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>>21311271
Tomino was not the one who dumped Nagano off ZZ & CCA's production. That was 100% bandai/sunrise execs being scummy.
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>>21311271
I'm not sure how anyone thinks that meant they had a falling out. Did Tomino keep working with literally everyone involved with Zeta except Nagano on every project he did afterward? Do people not realize that Nagano was neck deep in a one-man series of his own that whole time?
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>>21258787
How is it NTR if Kou still wins in the end?
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>>21315457
He's the silver medal rebound.
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I just finished watching the show. While I can understand the nuance as a few anons have pointed out, I still must say:
Fuck nina, holy shit
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>>21300483

What's loli Cima from? A dojin?
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>>21273864
Rookie hazing combined with insecurity complexes.
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>>21261142
Fuck Zeon and Fuck You
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>>21289566
I would expand that to say the show is mostly fucking terrible
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>>21325276
Gundam in general is fucking terrible



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