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What are the actual political differences between Zeon, Axis Zeon, and Neo-Zeon? They all seem pretty similar to me except for their leaders.
>>
idk lol
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>>21044551
>Zeon,
royal family
>Axis Zeon,
regent dictator using royal family member as puppet
>and Neo-Zeon
post-axis movements don't really pretend to be governments anymore
>>
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Zeon propagated the idea that spacenoids are better than everyone and so earthnoids must die. The zabis are the most better of spacenoids so they have the right to decide earthnoids fate and kill some spacenoids in doing so.
Axis Zeon believe the zabis are the only legitimate rulers of outerspace and that the federation must fall for the zabis to retain what is rightfully there's.
Neo zeon believes that newtypes are the only way for mankind to be united and peaceful. All old types must be made into newtypes by any means necessary, going so far as to wage war and bombarding the earth with captured asteroids.
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>>21044607

Char was absolutely presented as a head of state in Char's Counterattack, and he even appears to have some kind of ministry who attend the negotiations among other smaller, mostly background roles in the film.
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Besides Axis Zeon I believe it all boils down to race supremacy.
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>>21044620
So Char's only real ideological difference with Haman is just Mineva?
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None, really.
They all fundamentally seek a reversal of the relationship between Earth and space, with space as the dominant party, though their narrative takes a few different flavors between stuff like wanting to overthrow the yoke of oppression, or the idea that living in space makes them the superior new type of human, or some vengeance campaign to get back at the Federation... but at the end of the day the Zeon movement never did demonstrably work towards independence from Earth, but rather subjugation, looking down upon those who grew in the gravity well as having their souls weighed down and all that spiritual destiny hoohah that is meant to deliberately echo the insane logic of the Reich back during their heyday.

Tldr: they're all bitter about the war of gravitational aggression, to put it in terms Americans can pick up on.
>>
-Republic of Zeon: Simply Side 3. They believed in spacenoid independence and desired greater autonomy from the Earth Federation. Some believed in total separation, others just wanted greater representation in the Federation but local autonomy within their own territory.
-Principality of Zeon: The Zabi dictatorship under Degwin and Gihren that overtook the Republic of Zeon. It desired the total control of the Earthsphere, the colonies, and the moon.
-Delaz Fleet: Gihren loyalists who engaged in piracy and terrorism merely to harm those living on the Earth. They seemed to believe in spacenoid autonomy but they were mostly a single military unit.
-Axis: Remnants of the Principality officers, officials, and Zabi sychophants along with their families, and untold numbers of regular citizens from Side 3 loyal to Zeon's cause. They fell under the dominion of Haman Karn, who held onto the reins of power by controlling Mineva Zabi. Outwardly Axis wanted to restore the Principality and control the Earth, it was mostly just Haman's watlord state to keep herself safe.
-First Neo Zeon: Essentially, the first NZ was a continuation of Axis but with swelled ranks from Zeon holdouts, the Sides who were sick of the Federation, and ex-Titans. Goals were essentially the same. Spacenoid liberation, control of the Earth, Haman in charge behind the throne.
-Glemy's Neo Zeon: Rebels from Neo Zeon who were loyal to Glemy Toto. While also seemingly desiring to be a dictator, Glemy seemed to have an interest in Newtype's as the future of mankind, delving into older Zeon Deikun ideology with Gihrenist methodology.
-Char's Neo Zeon: Effectively a total repudiation of the Zabi dynasty. Char's Zeon desired humanity's total movement into space and turning the Earth into a protected nature preserve, but he himself had no interest in ruling once humanity was in space. However he was willing to drop asteroids onto the planet to force the exodus.
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>>21044645
-The Sleeves: The last vestiges of Neo Zeon forces. They receive some support from the actual Republic of Zeon. They hope to desttoy the Federation internally with the truth of the Federation's founding with Laplace's Box
-Zeon Earth holdouts: These were the Earthbound holdouts of Zeonic allies, mostly in the African and Asian continents. African Zeon holdouts played a prominent part in Operation Stardust and Glemy's Neo Zeon.
-Mars Zeon: The last major Zeon faction. They turned a mountain into a colony laser and stole an F90 Gundam. They tried to invade the Earth sphere but were soundly defeated. Their ideology seemed mostly just about running on fumes and old hatreds, with no real regard for Deikunist or Zabist ideology.
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>>21044645
>>21044667
what about these guys?
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>>21044673
LARPers.
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>>21044667

> The Sleeves: The last vestiges of Neo Zeon forces. They receive some support from the actual Republic of Zeon. They hope to desttoy the Federation internally with the truth of the Federation's founding with Laplace's Box

No, they don't. Frontal literally tells Mineva that the contents of the box are immaterialy; he just wants it so he can use it to bribe the Federation into extending the Republic of Zeon's independence beyond the UC0100 mark, so they have more than 4 years to form the Side Co-Prosperity Sphere. Which probably includes getting it through whatever difficulties the first few years of it's formation would require too.
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>>21044642
To be fair, unlike the Reich, they were practically slaved to mega-corporations in a manner that made their stations into glorified company cities. Zeonic industries propped up a resource-depleted Earth for multiple generations by the time of UC, yet they weren't considered their own people.
They came to the conclusion they were superior to Earthnoids because they felt the Earthnoids needed them economically, so if they could throw their weight around and show they could yank the rug under the Earthlings and Lunarians they could secure the top of the relationship.
At least, that's what any sane member of their movement thought. The message is pretty muddled when you consider many of the same companies that had a stranglehold on them decided to back the separation movement for personal gain.
Such is life.
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>>21044551
Various levels of incompetence increasing with every version. Simple as that.
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>>21044630
Gihren, Degwin and the other Zabis don't seem to really believe in Newtypes either, Kycillia a bit with the corps but not much beyond them being a bit better soldiers
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>>21044635
When the defining moment of your life is the Zabis (allegedly) murdering your dad, it's easy to get hung up on anything to do with the Zabis
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>>21044551
>Zeon
Take over the universe, justified as retaliation against the oppressive Federation and the manifest destiny of Spacenoids.
>>21044551
>Axis Zeon
Originally begins with the goal of returning to the Earth sphere and reclaiming Loum and maintaining their own sovereignty independent from the Federation. After the Federation's forces were devastated at the end of Zeta, Haman Karn took the opportunity to try to subdue the Federation, knowing that there was a good chance they would come after Zeon once they rebuilt years later.
>>21044551
>Neo-Zeon
Starts off with the intention of liberating oppressed colonies like Sweetwater from the Federation. Later turns into trying to move people into space by rendering the Earth uninhabitable.
>>21044667
>-The Sleeves
Once again another group with the objective of trying to liberate colonies from Federation oppression. This time the group isn't hijacked by conquerors or omnicidal crazies. Sadly sabotaged by Mineva's stupidity.
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All are terrorists and criminals.
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>>21046658
There is nothing more noble than fighting against Feddie tyranny. Peace for our children's time.
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>>21044551
Char's Neo-Zeon are so opposite it's not even funny. Old Zeon was
>Spacenoids better so lol inferior earthnoids I drop colony on lesser beings because me better than you
Char's is
>Spacenoids better so EVERYONE should be a spacenoid
It's like a Nazi concentration camp that forces Jews to get plastic surgery to look like Germans or does genetic experiments to transform everyone into a German.
>>
Char wanted to genocide oldtypes. That's been his philosophy since MSG.
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>>21047128
Char only wanted to genocide the Zabis. But after killing Garma he decided killing innocent Zabis was too much for him, hence why he had no qualms about protecting Mineva later on.

Now Gato, there's a guy who wanted to genocide oldtypes. The fact he was mister samurai meant he likely was willing to kill himself once every other oldtype was dead since he himself was also an oldtype.
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>>21047227
>But after killing Garma he decided killing innocent Zabis was too much for him,
Bollocks, he never shows any remorse for that
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>>21047109
Ethnic cleansing via rape is a thing
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>>21044620
>spacenoids are better than everyone and so earthnoids must die
That's not Daikun's idea at all, the people of Zeon just wanted their autonomy/more rights and the Zabi's wanted power
hell it's not even what Char wanted, but he was willing to crack a few eggs to get everyone out in space working with astro-machinery so humanity evolves
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>>21048785
>hell it's not even what Char wanted, but he was willing to crack a few eggs to get everyone out in space working with astro-machinery so humanity evolves
even then that's not his real motivation either
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>>21046564
>This time the group isn't hijacked by conquerors or omnicidal crazies.
no, FF is worse. he's a spineless coward.
>>
>Zeon's planned republic of Munzo
the main focus was independence from Earth. Newtype theory is closely related to this but it's not directly a political ideology yet. Alternatively in Origin he's a raving lunatic because fuck Origin
>Zabi's Principality of Zeon
they made themselves into royalty and used the basis of Zeon's desire for independence to start a war that only fueled spacenoid's hate of earthnoids to keep the economy going and to stay in power.
>Zeon Remnants
various groups left behind after the OYW, either on Earth or operating within the Earthspere. No real uniting ideology, just hatred.
>Axis Zeon / 1st Neo Zeon
Held together by Haman's iron fist combined with Mineva's influence. Main goal is avenging the Zabis and putting Mineva on the throne of the Earthsphere. Newtypes are much more common at this point. But the focus is still on killing and subjugating earthnoids
>Char's Neo Zeon
more or less completely divorced from Zabis except for most basic lip service at most in order to keep the people united. Char's ultimate goal involves Zeon only as a tool - an engine to propel himself into becoming a human sacrifice. Axis plan failing and dying to Amuro, and thus forcing humanity to evolve. Alternatively successful Axis drop also works. Regardless, Neo Zeon was just a tool and Char himself never intended to survive.
>3rd Neo Zeon / Sleeves
most blatantly funded by the Republic of Zeon (not to mention Anaheim, but that's nothing new), main goal is serving their interests and destabilizing Federation. Full Frontal fancies himself a grand Side Prosperity plan but the man manages to completely and utterly miss the point of everything Char stood for.
>Oldsmobiles / Mars Zeon
pretty much just Zeon Remnants, just on Mars. All they really have left is revenge so they go all in on that. Also working together with the Crossbone Vanguard, though I doubt they would have stayed allied once Cosmo Babylonia actually established itself.
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>>21044635
Yes & no. It’s more to do with Haman trying to puppet the zabi name. Something that was already frustrating for Char, due to finally taking up the family name in hopes of gaining support for the AEUG.
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>>21044551
The only remotely successful Zeon was Pluto Zeon
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>>21050646
Didn't Zeon only come across as loopy in Origin because he was stressed as hell?
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>>21050912
Or maybe he was always a bit of a nutter.
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>>21050646
>>21050912
>>21050939
I always took Origin to be Yasuhiko's somewhat more real-life inspired take on what Tomino's the Animal Farm style rose-tinted look at the Bolsheviki Revolution and Trotsky's exile.

With the way it treats Zeon (Space Lenin) and Jimba Ral (Space Trotsky) as their own kind of fucked up even if Space Stalin Zabi (And his son Space Hitler) are portrayed as worse.
>>
>>21050912
>>21050939
>>21051606
Origin feels like how history would be viewed if it were made as a dramatization like for crime shows
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>>21051756
Maybe but it still feels a bit more real than the sorta handwaved backstory of the original.
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>>21051764
kay yas
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Delaz died
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>>21051832
Lies and slander. He lives on in our hearts.
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>>21047109
Spacenoid isn't a race it's just people who live in space. Char wants everyone to move into space, not change their fucking racial traits.
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>>21044635
Well no, Char genuinely believes in all the stuff about spacenoid superiority and getting humans off earth. Haman doesn’t give a shit about any of that, she just wants power.
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>>21046658
Zeon just wants freedom and independence, is how I understand it after watching UC.
Feddies just brand them as terrorists because they can't handle challenge.
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>>21052456
Also they want to kill everyone on Earth
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>>21044607
Char and Mineva both do. It’s really just Full Frontal who doesn’t pretend to be in charge of anything other than a military force, and he explicitly plans on changing that in the future.
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>>21048198
>Ethical rape is a thing
Fixed
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>>21052591
I won't give it up
Baby 'till you drop
Get down on the beat
(Feel the pump from the Rapeman!)
The Rapeman makes you move
Get into the groove
Let's turn on the heat
(Feel the pump from the Rapeman!)
Dance all night!
Dance all night!
>>
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I wonder who the first zeon to really push the whole IDEALS this really was. Like that to catch on somewhere.
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>>21051781
Obviously not the absurd char wank like the death stare shit. Just the "Jimba and Deikun were kinda cunts too" parts
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>>21052742
the first person to push them? Zeon himself. After that Degwin.
first person to believe them? Zeon himself. After that maybe Degwin but really probably Garma.
first person to push them, believe them, and actually have some competence? hasn't happened until Char, honestly.
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>>21052742
I forgot about that last part
Did Gato do that in the finale? If so the armor DID have to be destroyed, he couldn't allow the Delaz-Axis connection to come out.
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>>21052742
still got nina to clustercuck Kou
is also the only Zeon leader (outside of Haman in Zeta) to actually achieve their stated objective
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>>21052766
that's nice and all, but the stated objective did more to hurt Spacenoids than anyone before
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>>21052759
How was Jimba a cunt?
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>>21052764
The Delaz and Axis connection was already known by then to the higher ups. The Federation fleet had given the Axis fleet a time limit on staying in the area before they would be fired upon. The feds were also blocking the surviving Delaz fleet from the Axis fleet, so Gato ordered them to rush through and make it to the Axis fleet before they left. His armor took considerable damage, so he did a kamikaze into a Magellan or Salamis since he wasn't going to make it anyway.

As far as I'm aware, his buddy Otto and some unnamed Dom pilot were the only survivors in the OVA. Gato survives in the Rebellion manga along with quite a few more of the Fleet, going on to form the Neo Delaz Fleet.
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>>21051832
I will miss Kobayashi dearly.
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>>21052797
I haven't seen 00083 in years but what would've happened if Delaz waited until 0087 during Zeta? Would he side with Haman and Axis, do his own thing, or discover Char is Quattro and ally with AEUG?
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>>21052866
if Delaz waited, that could also mean no Titans or more likely not quite as influential Titans, which already completely changes the political situation. Assuming Titans and then AEUG form up more or less the same though, I'd expect Delaz and majority of the fleet (including Gato) to link up with Axis Zeon and serve as a strong Zabi-supporting faction. This in turn would make them a threat or at least nuisance to Haman, so they'd probably end up backstabbed or left to die at some point.
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>>21052876
Or they live long enough to join Glemy's rebellion.
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>>21052766
Yeah, but Haman completely failed at her unstated objective of getting dick, which in her eyes was really the main objective the whole time.
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>>21052866
>>21052876
Obviously spoilers ahead to the anon who hasn't seen 0083 yet (definitely watch it. It will make you angry even if it is pretty)

I would imagine whatever forms of factions take shape in the Federation would end up having to align against this empowered Axis-Delaz alliance.

-With no Stardust, it would take a lot longer for the Titans to be formed.
-The GP units might become the new standard for the Federation since the project isn't buried (GP01, GP02, and GP03 becoming the forerunners to high-speed units, nuclear bazooka units, and mobile armor payload units). So Advance of Zeta but with the 0083 Gundams instead of just the GM Custom/Quel.
-The Federation would have much of the old OYW fleet still in service, as they wouldn't have been destroyed in the Solomon attack
-North America wouldn't be colony dropped and may have recovered more from the OYW by 0087. Related to this, Jaburo may not be abandoned. In 0083 the colony drop on NA was believed to be for Jaburo initially, leading to an evacuation of the facility. Without this event the Federation may have decided against abandoning Jaburo in Zeta.
-Cima might not betray Delaz since she can stay in the Earthsphere, although this certainly doesn't guarantee her loyalty as this theoretical war develops
-Depending on if CDA is canon, Enzo's coup and Haman's purging of him might not happen. It's been a while since I read it so someone feel free to correct mr but the Delaz Fleet not making it to Axis triggered the chain of events that led to Enzo's death. If that is the case, Char might stay on Axis.
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>>21052784
Operation stardust was an inside job anyway. It was just manufacture fear of a zeon remnant boogeyman to inflict martial law over on the more rebellious colonies
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>>21052956
Just because some Feddies let it happen instead of nuking the Garden of Thorns doesn't absolve the fact it was a Zeon plot.
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>>21052974
>t. Shahed Hussain



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