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08/21/20New boards added: /vrpg/, /vmg/, /vst/ and /vm/
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Discuss
>>
>>20540250
again?
>>
>>20540250
Discussed
>>
>>20540250
I think earthnoids shouldn't vote.
>>
>>20540250
Quess takes up too much screentime for how little impact she has.
People who think that it somehow "ruined" Char's character are brainlets who didn't pay attention during 0079 or Zeta.
7/10 would have been an 8 or a 9 if it were a multi part OVA with more time to breathe.
>>
>>20540384
based
SIEG ZEON
>>
>>20540407
actually agree with everything this faggot said
>>
>>20540250
Tomino kino
>>
Should have been 3 hours or longer.
>>
Haman and Nanai sharing a VA bothers me. Like just make her Haman at that point.
>>
Needed a better ending, needed an actual first act, needed less of Quess.
>>
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I don't know what's left to discuss about CCA that hasn't been already...

Hmmm let me think...

The swans. Could they have been Lalah? Are swans the symbol that Amuro, Lalah, and Char have been watching over the Earth beyond the time? The swans also appear in F91(?), Turn A and G-Reco.
>>
>>20540250
Not much to discuss at this point, I just personally can't for the life of me understand why people love it so much. Everybody hates ZZ for it's shitty writing but gives CCA a free pass for some reason.

also
>Neo-Neo Zeon
>Char still being upset about Lalah despite clearly forgiving Amuro during Zeta or at the very least he had come to terms with her death
>Those feddie guys selling Char the asteroid AFTER he already dropped one
>Char's plan literally making no sense like yeah killing everyone and ruining the atmosphere will help the earth, sure
>Earth Federation is still corrupt as fuck by the end so you don't even get closure on whether or not peace would come in the end despite the film supposedly being a finale to UC
>The Neo-Zeon guys helping stop the asteroid at the end even though it was their goal in the first place
>Having so much of the screen time focus on new characters that most people watching just don't care about

(all that stuff just really takes me out of the movie)

Don't worry I am not one of those guys who completely misinterprets Char's character in 0079 and Zeta, like I think it makes sense that Char might go crazy but at the end of the day it just feels like a waste of an interesting character.

It also just really bugs me that so many people say that this is one of the best mecha movies ever at least something like Ideon Be Invoked actually ended the series in a satisfying way that left basically no lose ends.
>>
Beyond the Time is a pretty good song.
>>
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>>20540636
Yeah man, Char is definitely not the kind of guy who says he's over something when he really isn't.
>>
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>>20540250
>plot disregards Zeta and ZZ
>shit animation
>ZERO shading
>doubling down on newhalf magic
Easily the most disappointing gundam media I've ever consumed.
>>
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>retards still getting exposed by CCA
look, Tomino isn't some cryptic druid whose writing is impossible to comprehend, so HOW is it that people STILL don't UNDERSTAND it?!?
Also, is it just me or are the people who don't like CCA people who like anime way too much? The typical (and incorrect) complaints include, "it didn't acknowledge this previous series" and/or "it isn't like this other series that I liked and that makes it bad", "the animation/art is bad", "[character] annoyed me", "it didn't baby me with enough exposition"
All the people I know who like it are people who dislike or avoid anime in general
>>
>>20540690
I'm not gonna delve into story, because UC story is shit and inconsistent to begin with, but after god tier animation of DYRL and Dangaioh you would expect from grand finale of flagship mecha franchise something at least on the same level.
Instead it looks like high budget TV episodes bundle.
You have NO right to say to me that I don't like anime, faggot. I just have STANDARDS.
>>
>>20540250
It’s shit like almost every other Tomino anime.
>>
>>20540462

Why? They're not alike as characters. Do you just object to the idea of voice actors playing multiple roles in an entire franchise?

>>20540636

> Char's plan literally making no sense like yeah killing everyone and ruining the atmosphere will help the earth, sure

Char outright tells Amuro at the start of the film he wants to punish Earthnoids, so his plan makes perfect sense. The fact he dresses it up nice for others doesn't make it his real goal.

> the film supposedly being a finale to UC

It's not, and it was never even presented as one. It's literally just fans in places like /m/ that act as if it is. It's the finale of Amuro and Char's rivalry, and that's it. Even then, it has to act as if the rivalry is a long running thing that's been an open question all along, rather than a rivalry that was given closure in both 0079 and Zeta.
>>
>>20540250
It has a lot of elements I find janky or annoying but the Axis Shock is the most kino thing Tomino's ever put to screen so it balances out.
>>
>>20540747
It's because 0079 wasn't definitive and Zeta is a sidestory.
>>
>>20540675
All the shading went to FSS and the Dirty Pair movie, thankfully
>>
>>20540675
>shit animation

Everyone who says this is blind, literally find me an instance of shit animation and I will show (You) a fool.
>>
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>>20540704
>UC story is shit
not a valid criticism
>and inconsistent to begin with
incorrect but how so
>but after god tier animation of DYRL and Dangaioh
what bearing do these releases have on CCA? how are they related besides being in the same genre?
Birth came out before Dangaioh, why isn't Dangaioh's animation as good as Birth's? Such a non-sequitur point, it's bizarre you even brought this up
like, "why don't spirited away and the cowboy bebop movie look the same?"
lmao
>Instead it looks like high budget TV episodes bundle.
incorrect
>You have NO right to say to me that I don't like anime, faggot
oh so you can't read? You're retarded? Got it. Also I'll say you're quite insecure if your belief that I claimed you don't like anime was enough to send you into such a rage.
>>
>>20540250
Let's partially chance the topic of the discussion.
>CCA : BC
Is better than the original movie?
What do you think about it?
Discuss.
>>
>>20540824
Pretty much the same.
High Streamer, however, is better.
>>
>>20540824
I'm not really fond of the Nightingale compared to the Sazabi
>>
>>20540828
I kinda agree with that. I like the general idea around the nightingale (both philosopically and as weapon), but design wise i think Sazabi was better. Expecially for the weird thing that the nightingale has as head/cockpit.
>>
>>20540250
It sucks. Also, all Gundam movies are weak. There isn't a single good one AND THERE NEVER WILL BE.
>>
>>20540828
I like the Nightingale just for how outlandish it compared to the standardish Sazabi.

The Hi-Nu on the other hand, is so incredibly bland I cannot comprehend why it's so beloved. I'd take literally any other Amuro MS over it.
>>
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>>20540916
Wrong, Endless Waltz FUCKS
>>
>>20540916
>he never saw the comps
>he never saw F91
>he never saw G-Saviour
>>
>>20540916
>>20540959
incorrect
>>20540973
correct
>>
>>20541212
Cringe
>>
>>20541215
why
>>
>>20541217
Because comps aren't that good by themselves.
>>
>>20541233
yes they are
>>
>>20540959
>Endless Waltz
Spliced together OVAs

>>20540973
>>he never saw the comps
Spliced together tv series

>>he never saw F91
>>he never saw G-Saviour
These ain't great much less good.

>>20541233
Comps aren't movies. The only REAL Gundam movies are CCA (shit), F91 (zero pacing: the movie), G-Saviour (eh), 00 Movie (crap), and Hathaway (and this relies on it being a series of movies instead of a standalone in which case it may as well have been a tv / ova series).

Gundam isn't suited for short form formats like movies. Hell, judging by how shit most of the OVA's have turned out, even those are too shortform for it. Lengthy tv series or bust, baby!
>>
>>20541245
you talk like a clown
>These ain't great much less good.
wrong
>Lengthy tv series or bust, baby!
also wrong
>>
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>>20540250

Nothing much else needs to be said.

Its an enjoyable train wreck made by a guy at a weak couple of years in his life.
>>
>>20541245
Oh wait, I forgot NT which is extremely dogshit bad.

>>20541264
>wrong
I'm not wrong. G-Saviour and F91 aren't good.

>also wrong
Embrace the truth of Gundam.
>>
>>20541274
such a tryhard post
>>
>>20541278

>pollutes the Earth with a giant Nuclear powered asteroid to stop mankind from polluting it

This is just factually correct though, the plot is fucking stupid.
>>
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>>20541277
>G-Saviour and F91 aren't good.
why
>Embrace the truth of Gundam.
the truth that the shortest entries are all the best?
okay
>>
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>>20541281
>pollutes the Earth with a giant Nuclear powered asteroid to stop mankind from polluting it
didn't watch the movie did you?
keep quiet when the adults are talking
>>
>>20541245
The "comps aren't movies" argument is something by people who have never seen a film by Tomino, they're paced excellently for being over 2 hours each and there is nothing un-cinematic in and of themselves. If all you're seeing is "spliced together tv series", you're not really watching.
>>
>>20541277
G-Saviour fucking rocks, of course the one thing between UC and Turn A is a single live-action entry, this is the beauty of it.
>>
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>>20540250
Who was in the wrong here?
>>
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>>20541307
obviously char?
lol
besides, Amuro was way more swagged out
>>
>>20541245
>Hathaway (and this relies on it being a series of movies instead of a standalone in which case it may as well have been a tv / ova series).
Super retarded take.
And as much as I love 52+ episode anime, Gundam never utilized length well. MSG getting cut short is likely a blessing in disguise.
>>
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>>20541287

Char gives multiple motives to different people during the movie, and all of them line up well with the wishes of the people he's talking to based on what he knows of them. He tells Nanai, a Newtype researcher, that he's trying to push humanity to become Newtypes. He tells Quess he's trying to put the Earth into a slumber to let it recover. He tells the soldiers of Neo Zeon during his speech that he's trying to destroy the Earth to remove the cause of war. He even appears to imply to Nanai that he will either marry her or give her a child once they succeed just before he launches at the end of the film.

The only person he doesn't tell something that will line up with their personality to get them on side is Amuro, who he tells that he's trying to punish Earthnoids for being selfish by killing them. Which just happens to be what'll happen when two asteroids crash onto the planet, one of them far larger than the other and loaded with nuclear warheads to help ensure it'll cause a nuclear winter that'll last decades.

Char doesn't give a fuck about Newtypes, which is pretty obvious given his treatment of Quess, and he doesn't want to save anyone on Earth. He's just lashing out at the world because he's a hurt manchild.
>>
>>20541327
It's a blessing because a lot of the stuff cut towards the climax seems kind of cliche and worse than what we got, like the Gundam destroying the Solar Ray by itself.
>>
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>>20541338
I never denied that he was a liar
in fact he acknowledges in that very scene that he's an incredibly evil person, and he doesn't care
and I agree, he's a manchild who believes the universe has taken from him the things he wants and he has the right to punish other innocent people for it
>>
>>20541338
I don't think it's as much as lashing out at the world here, as much as him being a gloryhog. Hence Char Aznable's destiny. His image and pride always were important to him, even if not as much as his revenge.
>>
>>20541362

While I would agree that there's some pride involved, I think ultimately even his pride is driven by his pain. When Bright talks to Sayla in ZZ, she says that she thinks Char feels he has some destiny to fulfill due to a mix of delusion and ambition as well as another example. It's present even all the way back in the original show though, since his rivalry with Amuro is predicated on wanting to best the Gundam after it defeated him several times for the sake of his pride as a pilot. Which happens even before Lalah is introduced. Frankly, he appears to bring Lalah into the war on his own recognizance purely to help him defeat the Gundam.

Char is a mirror to Amuro in many ways, and it's notable in the original show that Amuro originally wants to be a better pilot, including defeating Char, to prove his worth to the crew as well as to himself. While Amuro eventually moves beyond it and sees Char as nothing but a distraction that won't leave him alone by the end, Char is the opposite and starts off not caring about the Gundam beyond what it can do for his own plans to move up the Zeon ranks but becomes more obsessed with it over time and spends the entirety of A Baoa Qu chasing it down and forcing a fight.

The mirroring makes me think Char just views piloting as a way to prove his worth, to himself if no-one else.
>>
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>>20540250
>Char's motivation makes no sense
>Char tries to sexually assault Amuro even though he's clearly straight
>Reusing the Zedan Lazer
>muh Zabi ghosts
>General Revil killed off screen
>Fa killed offscreen
>Frau Beau killed offscreen
>Medforocatach loses his newtype powers because Sunrise wants Amuro and Char to be the center of the universe
>Flashman and Deednassing are depowered to appease muh gritty realism types
>Zeon gets ANOTHER army outta nowhere
>the Irish have colony drop ghosts but not the Australians
>all the wacky meme dance sequences

Aside from those points it was breddy gud
>>
>>20541771
>unrelated webm
>a bunch of asinine points half of which have been refuted in this very thread
>>
>>20541661

> my pol strawman

>>20541774

I don't think most of his points even have anything to do with the movie. Or they're just outright insane ramblings. Revil died on screen in the original show, Fa and Fraw aren't killed at all, or even implied to have died, there's no notable laser weapon in the film, no-one who had Newtype powers in a previous entry doesn't have them in Char's Counterattack, there's no Zabi ghosts in the film and I don't even remember anyone dancing in the film, beyond maybe the shadows of people seen through the door at the soiree Gyunei is talking to Quess at. I don't know what the Irish ghosts are a refence to either.

Char's motivation and the fact he has an army are about the only reasonable points on that whole list. They're still silly, but they at least have something to do with the film we got and not some insane version he just made up.
>>
>Char's Counterattack

Counterattack to what?
>>
>>20541771
>Char tries to sexually assault Amuro even though he's clearly straight
He would make a good mommy.
>>
>>20541844

Char's Counterattack. I can't narrow it down beyond that, because it's impossible to post a specific thing that doesn't exist. Both are alive the last we see of them in Zeta and ZZ, and neither is implied to die or even mentioned in Char's Counterattack itself.
>>
>>20541771
>muh Zabi ghosts
>>the Irish have colony drop ghosts but not the Australians
Actual ghosts would have been a interesting element.
Anon, when they referred to ghosts in CCA did you think they meant ACTUAL 2spooky ghosts and not metaphorically?
>>
>>20541844
>prove a negative
prove the positive you off-topic shitposting retarded faggot
>>
>getting baited into replying seriously to an obvious shitpost
I know /m/ is one of the low IQ boards but come the fuck on.
>>
>>20541889
>jokes on them
>>
An explicit tribute to weeb consumer cultuer.
Absolutely mediocre, if not outright sub par, anime that blew up solely due to franchise name.
If it was branded Goublam The Movie, with the exact the same plot and production values, but different names and robot colors, nobody would give a shit.
>>
>>20541904
wrong on all counts
>>
>>20541909
>instant reply from franchise slave
Buy more gunpla goi
>>
>>20541913
>projection
>>
>>20541904

> If this franchise movie that explicitly builds on preceding entries was made as is without a franchise name it wouldn't be as popular

No shit? If it didn't have the name Gundam attached then of course it wouldn't be as popular because the whole "closure to a big rivalry" thing that forms the central plot of the film wouldn't be something anyone gives a shit about. It is absolutely possible to write a film about a deep rivalry using new characters, such as Macross Plus, but Char's Counterattack as is doesn't do that because it depends on the context of at least Mobile Suit Gundam to inform that rivalry instead. So without it, it lacks a lot of the context for why the central rivalry means anything to anyone.
>>
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I'm an autistic faggot who read the parts of Hi Streamer that weren't animated and I think the movie's kinda better off as-is
>>
Titans were right. The tree of world peace must be watered with the blood of colonists. You only had to listen. Why didn't anyone listen?
>>
>>20541986
They were unconscious after getting beaten up by the local Titan's officer.
>>
>>20541945
There was no rivalry by Zeta.
They just ignored Zeta
>>
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>>20541945
And then there is this masterpiece.
Good movies don't need franchise brands to become legendary.
>>
>>20542204
>sir we've run out of clean cels, we could make more blanks but it would mean . . .
>>
>>20542204

I don't know if you can actually read, given your reply to my post.
>>
>>20541904
>If it was branded Goublam The Movie
Then I'd still watch it because Tomino productions are usually memorable if not outright really good. Who gives a shit whats popular.

t. has never seen non-Tomino gundam that wasn't about martial arts tournaments
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>>20542229
>Tomino productions are usually memorable if not outright really good
>>
>>20541345
Casval Deikun was a man who was abused by Kycillia during his childhood and had long since lost faith in humanity. Despite hoping that he'd eventually be proven wrong, the world only ever seemed to prove him right. In the end, the conclusion he came to was that in a world full of selfish people obsessed with short term gain and personal convenience, manipulating people and orchestrating his own suicide via salty runback was the only way he could ever rest peacefully in the afterlife.

He's quite a relatable character, and he never even would've been able to initiate the Axis drop had his views on humanity not been correct. Why did the Federation even sell him Axis in the first place? Because the souls of humanity have always been weighed down by greed and hubris. Amuro really was the only morally redeemable person he could ever truly call a friend, the only one he could trust to stop him. Tragic. Maybe in another life...they might've actually been besties.
>>
>>20546383

> Why did the Federation even sell him Axis in the first place?

They sold it to him because he literally forced them to, by threatening to start destroying colonies if they didn't. Their "greed" was in using the money from the sale to fund welfare schemes too, going by the film. It's unlikely to be for personal profit, at the very least, given they brought an auditor to their secret treaty meeting; someone whose literal job is to track the money and ensure it isn't misused.

Not really all that great an evidence of his views on humanity if he has to compel that end via force, and they still try to turn it to the public good.
>>
>>20546383
>He's quite a relatable character
no, he really isn't
> he never even would've been able to initiate the Axis drop had his views on humanity not been correct
also not true at all
>>
>>20541771
Funny how this is isn't any less of an accurate account of the movie than what 75% of complaints of the movie amount to on /m/
>>
>>20546412
Great contribution, we would be lost without your eloquent insight
>>
>>20546440
I know, thank you
>>
>>20546402
It's also worth taking into account that the greater context, in which the Federation is left with the sisyphean task of trying to rebuild Earth and the Sides from the catastrophic damage caused by the OYW along with every proceeding spacenoid chimpout that further diminishes their resources.
We see in ZZ and CCA that the Federation doesn't rebuild its military after Stardust/Gryps, but that they do put together colonies like Sweetwater for displaced people. It seems entirely plausible that they would use Char's money for welfare stuff that they otherwise could not afford.
>>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTPkf612sFg
The train scene was my favorite part. Nothing cooler than seeing Char ride packed mass transit.
>>
>>20540250
I like it, but it focuses too much on Quess and Hathaway. I get why Tomino put them in, but they kind of take away from how climactic Amuro and Char’s final showdown is supposed to be. Quess basically wastes most of Amuro’s funnels, making Char’s leakage of psycoframe technology almost a wasted effort.
>>
>>20547507

We have no idea what destroys most of Amuro's funnels. He has all of them while fighting Quess and Gyunei, and maybe one is destroyed; then when he goes to face Char he has only one left. The rest are destroyed off-screen. It hardly matters, because Char loses 5 or the 6 of his destroying the White Base's nukes. So they each only have one left. Which destroy each other just after they begin fighting. The point of the psycoframe has fuck all to do with funnels; that's just a superficial benefit. The psycoframe is there, narratively, for the ending. The funnels are a bonus that's done away with quickly once the real fight starts. They do some good against the Alpha Azieru by creating a shield so Amuro can try and talk her down, and that's their main function done.
>>
>>20547233
wouldn't anyone just be capable of assassinating him in this scenario
>>
>>20540250
Nu Gundam feels very over exposed.
>>
>>20547570

Sure, but then, that's a chance every politician takes when interacting with the public to some degree. You can mitigate that risk, but you're still risking it regardless. Char has a Cyber-Newtype bodygaurd though, as well as being a Newtype himself and is travelling with another natural Newtype. So it's not likely anyone would be able to attack undetected.
>>
>>20540828
Agreed. The Sazabi is just so beautiful
>>
>>20541327
>MSG getting cut short is likely a blessing in disguise.
Agreed, I honestly think if every UC series were like 10ish episodes shorter it'd be a flat improvement
>>
>>20547795
absolutely correct, Zeta only need to be maybe 33 episodes, it'd serve pacing a lot better, ZZ should have been maybe 20 to 25, and MSG should haveen 30
>>
>>20546502

we are talking about the same Federation that gassed civvies in Zeta, to be clear, right
>>
>>20548877
That gassed mutinous rebellious civvies yes
>>
>>20547795
>>20548681
Absolutely dogshit here-nor-there improvement.
>>
>>20550062
Wrong bitch. Zeta had a (at the shortest) ten episode stretch in the middle where it was nothing but dogshit sorties without objectives or development in any meaningful capacity
>>
>>20550097
Wholly untrue, there wasn't anything that wasn't of note, sorry you have to be a godforsaken "plot" person who feels the need for everything to have some neat little objective to neatly reach in record time.
>>
>>20550107
Doubly wrong, faggot. It's not a question of "record time", First Gundam always had a destination in place be it Odessa, Jaburo, etc. with clear communications as to where they had to go, but it was still episodic with encountering Zeon saboteurs and prototype mobile suits. Zeta has no such thing. The Argama will waltz into an area without purpose, the Titans show up, the two groups fight to a stalemate, then both sides fuck off until they do it the next episode all over again. It's a lazy-ass pattern that holds until Dakar and it sucks the energy out of the show
>>
I wish the film had a few more connections to Zeta and ZZ aside from a mention of Titans and Astonage.

I don't really see why it needed to be a movie. The animation whike nice, didn't real feel theatrical quality (of course it's not going to look like Akira, but F91 blows it out of the water). An OVA would have been better to pace the story. The actual meat and bones of the story I have no issue with.
>>
>>20541307
Lalah was in the wrong, shouldn't have died
>>
>>20546502
Good intentions pave the road to hell. They allowed themselves to justify selling an asteroid to Zeon, the very same Zeon that caused catastrophic damage during countless past wars, for "muh good of the people." The people can't collect welfare if they're dead, just like all the countless pilots who died during the film because they wound up having to fight Neo Neo Zeon anyway, as if there was ever any other way it could possibly turn out. .
>>
>>20546502

The Federation does build a new military after Stardust/Gryps, and the reason Bright leaves the Nahel Argama to Judau & co once they receive it is because he wants to go to the Moon to get Federation military support for the assault on Haman and Side 3. That support arrives too late, and it's certainly not as big as it was in Stardust by then, but they've started arms building again regardless.

>>20548877

Actually no, because that was the Titans and the Federation very publicly excised them as a part of the Federation during Zeta. You are still talking about the same Federation willing to make a deal with Haman and callously brush of her genocidal attacks for their own benefit though. However, just because they did a bad in the past doesn't mean they're always bad and will never do anything not bad. The film makes no attempt to suggest the payment is anything but on the level.
>>
>>20550460

They didn't "allow" anything; they dealt with Char because he literally left them no choice, by threatening to start destroying cylinders if they didn't. So they not only sold Axis to him, but did it as part of a peace treaty that (a) recognized Sweetwater as a sovereign nation and (b) put an apparent end to Char's hostilities in exchange for selling Axis and a recognition of Sweetwater as sovereign i.e. the thing Spacenoids had always been angling for according to their own propaganda.

Adaneur Paraya also allowed Londo Bell to investigate Neo Zeon, but not to attack them or put the treaty in jeopardy unless they had proof that Char was planning to renege on the treaty. Which is why they spend a good chunk of film trying to find that proof. So they made peace with Char while trying to give Neo Zeon what Zeon has always apparently wanted (recognition of independence) but also had the vigilance to look for more. Not really much more you could ask them to do in that situation.
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>>20550473
>Not really much more you could ask them to do in that situation.
I could ask them to REMEMBER THE COLONY DROP and THE SIXTY GORILLION. They could've and should've known Zeon wasn't sincere. Obviously if you have a faction that has a history of REPEATED genocide, giving them a giant projectile to hurl at earth is a bad idea no matter how you rationalize it. And if Zeon aggressed against spacenoids then all it would do is rally the colonies against THEM and lead to their inevitable defeat and disgrace.

No matter how you slice it, Zeon were in fact the villains no matter how self righteous they were or how strongly they felt the Federation deserved it. No, the Federation didn't deserve Zeon's hostility. No, Zeon shouldn't have tried to scalp the Federation. No, the Federation shouldn't have cooperated with Zeon. And no, space shouldn't have overlooked the fact that Zeon was in fact personally responsible for every single mass death that happened during the course of the UC franchise up until after Mars Zeon is defeated. Because of course there's also a Mars Zeon, as Zeon were never the good guys no matter how much they played the victim and acted like they weren't the ones antagonizing the Federation who was otherwise content leaving them alone.
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>>20550563
Fuck, it reminds me of those vtubers who came on 4chan, sought out conflict, started shit with anons, then played the victim. I'm sorry, but if you go somewhere where they're otherwise leaving you alone and declare some sort of holy jihad because people there aren't bending the knee to miss your ass, there really is a clear villain and it's you.

tldr Zeeks should've gone back to their colonies instead of constantly threatening earth, while the Federation should've shown them no quarter when they tried to strong arm people. If only people had the backbone to stand for something instead of giving in to threats that will, because Zeon IS Zeon, never truly end. If the Federation had an ounce of courage, the axis drop never would've happened. And the fact that we see Zeon in Crossbone's post-Zanscare period just goes to show that zeeks will never stop threatening the cosmos, even if you piss off and leave them alone. Literally the entirety of Gundam is a testament to how incurably evil Zeon is.
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>>20550566
It's a shame Gundam never really shines alot of light on the idea of the average Zeon soldier who is fighting for freedom and independence. I feel like that would be a good story to tell but instead we usually get stories with Zeon troops who are highly eccentric and have schizo weird side motives
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>>20550563

> They could've and should've known Zeon wasn't sincere

And do what? Not negotiate in good faith, prompting Char to start destroying cylinders because they won't negotiate.

> if Zeon aggressed against Spacenoids then all it would do is rally the colonies against THEM

Spacenoids continued to support Zeon despite the Principality wiping out 4 entire Sides. Why would Char destroying a few colonies turn them against him?
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>>20550576
>freedom and independence
This is a farce. They're not. That's just a propaganda talking point. As an anon pointed out, the Federation was so good to the colonies they even had social programs and colony building/repair initiatives. The Federation were (in general) unironically the good guys, even the Titans.

>>20550580
That's defeatist thinking and validates Char's blackpilled perception of people by presuming "everyone is irredeemable even given a chance so you might as well assume the worst in every scenario."

The Federation should've mobilized the troops, evacuated the colonies and declared its intent to go to war with Neo Neo Zeon if they attempted another genocide. They wouldn't even need to aggress against Zeon, as doing so would be considered an act of bad faith.

But if they were on the defensive and Zeon still attacked, that would be a propaganda victory for the Federation and a just, sympathetic cause for declaring war against Char. Remember the colonies he destroyed. "Remember that he's not fighting for the colonies, he's fighting to usurp the Federation and terrorize his own people. This madman must be stopped or there will never be peace in the earth sphere."
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>>20550612
Ok calm down we don't live in the UC timeline lol. The original point of Zeon was independence from the Federation. We don't see stories of patriotic Zeon soldiers fighting for meaningful independence, we just see stories of stupid Zeon grunts dying and the "cool" Zeon soldiers are either to much personality or have weird side goals like Char where he is trying to kill the Zabis. I'm specifically talking within the context of the OYW. When you extend the idea of Zeon out to the whole of UC, ya, their aims becomes very muddled and the things they do are pretty ridiculous. What I have an issue is that we don't have a series that shows why the average Zeon soldier was fighting to begin with and the beliefs that would encourage remnant groups to fight on even decades later in the name of Zeon
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>>20550625
You still don't get it. There was no actual reason. It was propaganda, ideology and self righteousness. The average zeek didn't know a thing about earth. And there was no internet, so the truth couldn't get out. Zeon was, in no uncertain terms, a mass psychosis campaign carried out by Nazi analogues to radicalize spacenoids into fighting a war. We may not live in UC, but Tomino's writing has a lot of parallels with how people behave in real life. Of you've been paying attention, people using a fabricated sense of victimhood to justify aggression against other people isn't exactly unheard of.
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>>20550612

> The Federation negotiating with Neo Zeon in good faith somehow validates the idea everyone is irredeemable
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>>20550660
It assumes the colonists would side with Char no matter what. If so, there's no need to be so concerned with the safety of traitors in the first place.

Otherwise, they'll understand if you take a stand against a group of arrogant narcissists who've declared themselves the rulers of space while holding your citizens hostage.
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>>20550675

No, it just assumes that they don't want to risk the destruction of any colonies and would rather end the conflict peacefully if possible.
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>>20550684
Which we've already established was pure delusion given that Zeon has never been interested in ending conflict peacefully even when given the chance. The Federation forces were always the only ones who cared about peace, order and civility. It was the zeeks who were always rabblerousing because they hated the feddies and wanted to control everything and everyone for their own benefit.

The truly right play was always to mobilize the Federation armed forces and make it clear that they'd go full Titans if Zeon harmed so much as a single colonist. It's just that the Federation was weak, feckless, complacent, subverted and generally unworthy of respect, which tragically justifies Zeon's continued crusades because the Federation could never ever being itself to truly get tough on Zeon for the sake of its own people.

Federation civilians deserved better than traitors and aloof bureaucrats. It's a shame they never got better, and thus the Federation continued to be embroiled one war after the other as a result of its inability to stand up for the very people who supported and fought for it.
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>>20550744

> Which we've already established was pure delusion given that Zeon has never been interested in ending conflict peacefully even when given the chance.

All we've established is that you're going to think the Federation wrong regardless, I think. The Federation negotiated in good faith, while investigating if Char intended to betray them. It's by far the most reasonable course of action to my mind. You very, very obviously disagree, but I'm not honestly not sure the Federation could have done anything you wouldn't find disagreeable.
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>>20550107
I don't need to watch Kamille take a shit, I know he does, but it's just one of those things that doesn't matter, the fact that the MSG Movies properly compressed the original series into a 3 part movie that's totally coherent and a more enjoyable series, means Zeta could be done in maybe 30 episodes that would be more enjoyable altogether. A lot of the time it's just useless battle animations because half the episode had to have robots or else kids were turn it off
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>>20550750
>The Federation negotiated in good faith, while investigating if Char intended to betray them. It's by far the most reasonable course of action to my mind.
Are you trolling? Negotiating in good faith with people you know are negotiating in bad faith is retarded when you know as a point of fact they've never negotiated in good faith at any point in history.
>I'm not honestly not sure the Federation could have done anything you wouldn't find disagreeable
They could've simply learned the lessons of history. Zeon was originally bad. It was always bad. There's no reason to believe Zeon would ever be good. Fast forward to Unicorn and Zeon still bad. Fast forward to F90 and Zeon still bad. ZEON BAD is the absolute rule of UC, and only someone lying or incredibly naive would imply otherwise.
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>>20550166
CCA's animation is very good, it's just not obsessed with complex shading and detail in the mecha animation, but that allowed it to have the mecha be animated in more complex perspectives and movements.
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>>20550754
>I need shit cut out because time wah
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>>20550639
You sound like you believe the 6 gorrilion
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>>20540250
I liked it, was a fun watch, quess is literally an idiot child who belived the first thing she heard and it's 100% in character if grating.
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I fucking hate Hathaway for killing Amuro's waifu. Is that ever addressed satisfactorily in Hathaway's flash?
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>>20555784

In the novels? No, because the novels take place in a different continuity, based off the Beltorchika's Children novels, where Chan doesn't exist and Hathaway killed Quess by accident while trying to protect Amuro.

In the movies? It hasn't really been addressed yet in the one film out so far, but something may come up in the other 2 since the movies are based off Char's Counterattack and not Beltorchika's Children. It probably won't play much role beyond him dying in the end; presuming that still happens.
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Need Quessy
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>>20550639
The Zabi Family is soposrd to resoresent someone like Idi Amin or Saddam Hussein, someone who hijacked a legitimate independence movement and also something Tomino would e lived through
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>>20540250
how_it_should've_ended.jpeg
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>>20541245
Christ. Shit takes like these should be bannable.
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Was CCA made for very cheap? A lot of the time it looks worse than ZZ
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>>20562016
That's just not true
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>>20562016
It just didn't go crazy with the shading, but it is a very well-made film.
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>>20562016
You might honestly be blind.
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>>20540407
>Quess takes up too much screentime

Her characterization is horrendous and super creepy. The idea of a young Newtype who's talents are unrecognized by her family and thus is easily manipulated by Char could work as the story of a tragic villain. Her crush on Char could have also worked if they'd focused more on how Char was creepily taking advantage of it to turn her into a weapon.

Instead, the focus is placed on Quess doing some beyond creepy stuff that feels like pandering for pedos. She says, "This is why I hate younger men" to a man who is older than her but not as old as Char when he tries to point out that she's being manipulated? No fucking 14 year old girl talks like that, even genius psychic ones. Someone slapping some sense into her is framed as a jealous woman's spite, and it prompts Quess to STRIP TO HER PANTIES AND LEAP INTO THE VACUUM OF SPACE. What the actual FUCK were the writers thinking?
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>>20540407
>Quess takes up too much screentime for how little impact she has.
her character is the cornerstone of the work
>>20562036
>No fucking 14 year old girl talks like that
someone got homeschooled
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>>20562036
Quess is one of the most realistic teenaged girls I've seen in anime.
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Quess power posting.
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>>20562036
>No fucking 14 year old girl talks like that,
So many do, every class has at least one Quess in it if its a western styled country.
>and it prompts Quess to STRIP TO HER PANTIES AND LEAP INTO THE VACUUM OF SPACE
That's not how it goes in the movie, she is wearing her normal outfit there, that's from the more recent manga adaptation, not sure how the novelization plays out.
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>>20562036
>Her crush on Char could have also worked if they'd focused more on how Char was creepily taking advantage of it to turn her into a weapon.

Almost every scene with both of them together focus on that - pay attention to Char's tone of voice and body language in those scenes. He just doesn't act insanely over the top so to indicate it. Char is a pretty good liar in universe. Char also has a brief moment when he is actually subbing her in for Lalah when he first sees her power as well, but once he talks to her a bit more he gets that she's not even close to his imaginary ideal of who Lalah was. Nanai isn't slapping sense into Quess, that would also involve getting her off of the Alpha, she's having a cat fight with a younger rival (more fertile younger women are the biggest threat to other women), that's just what it is. Gyunei isn't trying to help her either, he wants her for his own purposes too - Quess can help him be a better newtype and overthrow Char. Hathaway is the only person who actually cares about her.
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>>20540250
This movie is either a masterpiece or hot garbage, no between.

Funny this is, I just can't decide if its the first or the latter.
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Why does this movie start in the middle?
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>>20563755
Because the movie is about how Char and Amuro relate to the next generation of Newtypes (Quess mainly) and each other. So he begins at the point where he can get them all interacting quickly and make a single film.
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>>20562625
>(more fertile younger women are the biggest threat to other women)
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>>20540250
Another vote for "desperately needed to be a short series instead."
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>>20540250
Had Amuro brought Kamille Bidan, Kamille would have resolved the whole issue in pic related and got Char to chill the fuck out.
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Would have been a great movie with some bearable flaws(Quess) if it wasn't for that damn nonsensical line at the end.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Char meant to this day. it's almost embarrassing to show people the movie cause I know that they'll be flabbergasted and confused by the line and judge the entire movie for it.
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>>20564436
>Quess is a flaw
she is the purpose of CCA itself how do you retards not get that?
and have audiences just become too feminine to understand Char's final words? They make complete sense
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>>20564437
>she is the purpose of CCA itself
I thought the purpose was Char having one last duel with Amuro while Quess was just added to give the younger audience something to relate to? If they were trying to make me sympathetic to her, they failed hard.

>have audiences just become too feminine to understand Char's final words
That explanation from Tomino sounds feminine as fuck though, real men don't need a woman to 'dote' on them, they accept life for what it is and soldier on. Women don't respect men who need to be babied.
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>>20541382
Jesus christ that dialog is bad. Pure cringe.
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>>20564477
lol that's a VERY surface level analysis of the work. A marketing executive tier conclusion.
CCA is about the next generation of the Universal Century, it's about how unsolved problems in the past always make problems in the future, and how broken people pass on their problems and trauma. If you don't see the youths within the film as victims then you need to watch it again.
As for Quess herself, Amuro and Char are the opposing paternal figures in Quess's life. Quess has a serious problem with the absence of a paternal figure and develops crushes on both of them; it's no surprise that a young girl surrounded by boys finds "manly" (at least outwardly, in Char's case) figures, who seem to be in control, to be attractive.
I guess if you wanted a single sentence to describe the purpose of CCA, it would be that "The past generation needs to show the future generation the light of the human heart."
>real men don't need a woman to 'dote' on them, they accept life for what it is and soldier on. Women don't respect men who need to be babied.
that's about what I would expect a woman to say. As in, a woman with daddy issues who needs her man to be her emotional tampon and just take life up the ass while she spends his money. Almost like something Quess would say. Women don't have the right to dictate what emotions men have in their hearts.
Char is a definitively masculine character in the sense that he is a man who was deprived of love at every stage of his life, either by his own actions (even screwups) or by the misfortune of his birth.
To not understand that a man deprived of doting and maternal love would not seek it out in a partner, and to think it unreasonable that in his final moments he would not lament the passing of the only partner who could have given him that, is a typically female response to the matter.
Your post makes you seem like someone generally unprepared to consider Gundam's psychosexual themes.
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>>20564021
Back to tumblr with you. Its not different from how more socially and economically powerful (and therefore usually older) men are the biggest threat to other men.
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>>20540250
Zechs Marquis > Char Aznable
That movie is the reason.
Oh and they should have stuck with the idea of Amuro boning Char's sister.
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>>20541824
Amuro existing
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Let's go over what Char's motivations are since first time viewers are commonly blindsided by this, and the movie is quite compact and dense so it's easy to miss information (and I just rewatched this, so hey).

>1. Punishing the Federation and Earthlings.
Char says this most notably during his speech before the Axis capture operation and to Amuro at the start of the movie. After the Gryps conflict, the failure of the post-Dakar AEUG, and the continued complacence of the Federation during Axis war, Char has become disillusioned with trying to change the Federation for the better, which is why he stopped being Quattro. Instead, he has opted for the destruction of the most corrupt elements of humanity.
>2. To hasten the evolution of mankind into Newtypes.
This one is probably the weakest motivation of Char's, as I do not see him as very fervent in this goal. He says this to Nanai and Quess, which makes one question if Char is lying about this goal to manipulate them. It's also questionable, both in and out of universe, whether or not the harshness of living in space will really accelerate humanity's evolution. At the very least, this motivation is convenient for Char to at least pretend to have, because it legitimizes him as the heir to Zeon Deikun.
>3. To settle the score with Amuro.
This motivation is seen in the fistfight scene, the scene where he remembers the OYW, and of course the very last words Char says. Char is still hung up on the battle that got Lalah killed by Amuro. Perhaps with an inferiority complex, he wants to defeat Amuro. This is also why he subtlety gives the psycoframe technology over for the development of the Nu Gundam, so he can fight Amuro fairly.

What I wonder is which of the motivations is Char's strongest? Secondly, is Char completely lying about any of his motivations, or does he believe all of them at least a little bit? Feel free to add more if I missed any.
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>>20562058
>quess is the cornerstone of the work
thanks for killing half my fucking braincells with that retarded take.
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>>20566854
fallacy
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>>20566856
copeacy
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>>20566862
lmao seethe lil bitch I win
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>>20566888
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>>20566893
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>>20566888
>>20566893
>>20566898
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>>20566565
Char isn't lying about any of his motivations, the movie itself makes this very clear. After being defeated he still complains about humanity creating new tragedies (like the one he's responsible for), fucking up the Earth (like he was about to do) and Amuro not UNDERSTANDING it. The rivalry with Amuro seems secondary and more of a result of him still siding with the Federation, as Char never really displays any actual hatred towards Amuro, though he still hasn't gotten over Lalah's death.
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>>20572643
He explicitly says to Amuro "I'm not trying to change the world", he may be frustrated with humanity over its self stunted growth, but he is beyond trying to do anything to fix that, he just wants to punish.
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>>20572643
There's a difference between an outright lie and a small lie; Char is a sociopath, but as someone who has told lies (I assume I'm not in strange company, everyone has lied once, even about something small), it is MUCH easier to lie about something which is at least half-true
and Char has quite a lot of half-truths to lie about
>1. Punishing the Federation and Earthlings.
this is the most true of his untrue statements; Char really does hate the world for taking away what he thinks is his, but his anger at the Federation, and ESPECIALLY at non-combatant Earthnoids, is unfounded, and he knows it. He uses this as a pretense for his next argument which is
>2. To hasten the evolution of mankind into Newtypes.
and this one is mostly bullshit. Char has had this semi-ideal since Zeta, he thinks (or claims) that Newtypes are some next evolutionary stage of mankind. We know that he knows this isn't true; every Newtype he knows he has betrayed or taken advantage of in some way. And the newtype at the center of CCA? Quess? She's from EARTH! So yeah, he's full of shit on this one. At the LEAST I'd say this is a mere remnant of his lack of paternal influence; he just wants to do what his dad didn't get to, but in a fucked up way.
>3. To settle the score with Amuro.
this one is absolutely true. He fucking hates Amuro, and now that Amuro has become a member of Londo Bell? He's the epitome of Char's hatred
>took his lover away
>opposes his ideals
>better pilot
>able to maintain relationships rather than abuse people
Anyone who thinks Char is a true idealist is a retard. By the time of CCA he just wants Amuro and the Earthnoids to suffer because he has pathologically fixated on them and views them, Amuro specifically, as the source of his woe.
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>>20572646
That quote is retarded because the world IS going to change as a direct result of Char's actions and the result (or at least what he thinks is going to happen) lines up with everything he espouses through the movie. Creating a long nuclear winter and forcing humanity out of Earth will eventually allow the planet to recover and accelerate the creation of newtypes.
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>>20572663
oh you're just an idiot?
nvm, ignore that long-ass post I made when I assumed you weren't a fucking moron
my bad
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>>20572665
>I have no argument, therefore I'll just call you an idiot
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>>20572680
I made my arguments in that post but you've proven you're just an idiot arguing in bad faith (or worse, trolling) by saying something as retarded as
>Creating a long nuclear winter and forcing humanity out of Earth will eventually allow the planet to recover and accelerate the creation of newtypes.
which is literally not true
space populations are huge by the time of F91 and Victory but Newtypes are a mythic thing; even the newtypes who do appear prove Char wrong; Newtypes are just normal people with extraordinary abilities, not people who have become good as a necessary conclusion of those abilities.
Even in Victory we see that being a Newtype isn't necessarily related to space or earth. The conclusion of Victory is basically Tomino saying, "Earth is better off without those retards in space fucking everything up." In F91 and Victory, and even going back to Zeon, spacenoids and newtypes especially prove to generally be psychopathic megalomaniacs who think they "know what's good for Earthnoids." In Victory Queen Maria ADMITS THAT HER NEWTYPE-CENTERED IDEA WAS RETARDED and that she regrets being involved with Angel Halo.
You are a fucking idiot and every subsequent work in Gundam following CCA proves that Char is just a raging manchild mommyfag.
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>>20572691
You're taking rationalizations which don't exist in the movie and applying them while missing the core premise of it.
Not once up until that point in the franchise does anyone ponder about newtypes appearing on Earth or how stupid is the idea is that just moving to space makes you magically use 100% of your brain which gives you psychic powers, but that's exactly how it is presented in the series, as shown in Quess and Hathaway's conversation.
We're not given any reason to think the characters say this in bad faith, because newtypes and giant robots are secondary to Tomino's hippie message about "UNDERSTANDING", which is what the Axis shock is all about.
Char's plan is retarded, but you don't get to bring up the resolution of later conflicts as an excuse for saying that wasn't in any way part of his motivation as something which happens after he's long dead proves his plan wouldn't work out.
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>>20572753
>you don't get to contextualize Char's ignorance and wrongdoing using the author's own works which expand upon the same theme!!!
>you just can't do that!!! OKAY?!?!
Like I said you're an absolute retard
fuck off now
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>>20572762
>Char is supposed to have future vision and know exactly what would happen in the wars after CCA, therefore saving the Earth and newtypes that couldn't possibly be part of his motivation because...
>THEY JUST CAN'T OKAY?!?
You're the only idiot here, try actually watching MSG and Zeta before you pretend to know what you're talking about.
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CCA is pure SOUL kino
Hand painted cells, shot on film, and the 80s
Pure unfiltered KINO
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>>20540250
2023 will mark the movie's 35th anniversary. Expect a Perfect Grade Nu Gundam to commemorate the occasion.
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>>20572770
>>Char is supposed to have future vision and know exactly what would happen in the wars after CCA, therefore saving the Earth and newtypes that couldn't possibly be part of his motivation because...
strawman, fallacy
not what I said retard
what I did say was fuck off because you're a fucking moron
so please do
idiot
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>>20572775
>strawman, fallacy
You're the one bringing Maria regretting a bunch of shit in Victory (after already doing) as supposed proof that Char doesn't really believe in anything of what he says he does in CCA. Do you lack basic reading comprehension or is your IQ just that low?
>b-but fuck off
No arguments again, you're the one who needs to fuck off.
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>>20540250
I hate how even after a literal miracle happens at the end, it never really changed the Earth's opinion, people just move on with their lives and conflict continues.
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>>20572790
>You're the one bringing Maria regretting a bunch of shit in Victory (after already doing) as supposed proof that Char doesn't really believe in anything of what he says he does in CCA
Not what I was doing
Yet you claim I (ME?!?) lack basic reading comprehension!!!!
LOL!!!!
You are a stupid dude
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>>20572803
Yes, you lack basic reading comprehension, you're utterly incompetent at organizing your thoughts in a simple sentence and you fail to understand even the most simple storytelling structure.
You're retarded beyond belief, yet you're arrogant enough to think you're right even when the film itself doesn't support your delusion, which is why you constantly default to seeking justification outside of it, regardless of character development or context.
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>>20572814
>>20572803
get a room
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>>20572814
AHAHAHA
You make me laugh!
>the film itself doesn't support your delusion
ironic
>regardless of character development or context
also ironic
anyways, it's obvious you're just being ironic at this point. You literally cannot read
You misrepresent my positions and points, you aren't willing to argue in good faith and you legitimately believe that Char's plan would have worked.
you straight up rarted
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>>20541904
wrong. put the shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger.
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>>20572824
>legitimately believe that Char's plan would have worked
So that's the strawman you set up, even though it's a blatant lie as I already made it very clear what I think of it earlier.
>>20572753
>Char's plan is retarded
Char believes his plan would have worked, he constantly repeats it through the movie and there's no reason to doubt his motivation.
You are fucking stupid, congratulations.
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>>20572835
>So that's the strawman you set up, even though it's a blatant lie as I already made it very clear what I think of it earlier.
>"Creating a long nuclear winter and forcing humanity out of Earth will eventually allow the planet to recover and accelerate the creation of newtypes."
lying now?
stay mad I guess
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>>20572863
Yes, you absolute mongrel, I've been explaining Char's motivation from the very start, not defending it. Char's plan is to drop asteroids loaded with nukes on Earth to create a long nuclear winter and force humanity into space, which supposedly will accelerate evolution into newtypes. This will also serve as punishment for the elites "whose souls are bound by gravity" while enabling Earth to recover without humans, as he believes human exploitation of the planet is unsustainable, a reference to his speech in Dakar. He (CHAR) believes this will work and none of these motivations are contradictory, lining up with his character development since MSG, not to mention it's what he says time and time again in the film, but apparently it's too complex for illiterate retards like you to understand.
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>>20572917
>Char's plan is to drop asteroids loaded with nukes on Earth to create a long nuclear winter and force humanity into space, which supposedly will accelerate evolution into newtypes
yet Char knows this isn't true, most of the strong newtypes he knows are earthnoids; not only that, all the worst people he knows of besides maybe Bask Om have been newtypes
>I'll just turn everyone into Scirocco and Haman
his supposed idealist motivations don't make sense
anyways, he admits with his last words that this is all about the love he didn't get. So I'm right, get owned
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>>20572924
> Char knows this isn't true
Shit you're pulling out of your ass. Char never ponders for even a second if space has nothing to do with evolution into newtypes, he just follows exactly what his father teached.
>most of the strong newtypes he knows are earthnoids
Kamille is a spacenoid, and so are Haman and Scirocco. Most of the newtypes he knows are spacenoids, stop lying.
>all the worst people he knows of besides maybe Bask Om have been newtypes
The Zabis weren't newtypes. Regardless, newtypes aren't shown to be more or less peaceful and understanding than oldtypes, which is part of the reason why his plan is retarded. Yet that never comes up in his thought process, you're the one making assumptions that Char couldn't possibly be so dumb as if Tomino wasn't the fucking hack unironically coming up with lines like "souls bound by gravity".
>he admits with his last words that this is all about the love he didn't get
Except you fucking missed the context in which it is said. Protip: it has nothing to do with why Char decided to wage a war, but laying down his differences with Amuro as part of their rivalry.
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>>20573000
>what his father teached.
which was demonstrably wrong as he saw in his own life
>most of the strong newtypes
>Most of the newtypes
good attempt at obfuscation, not gonna work
>The Zabis weren't newtypes
never said they were, nice try at another strawman though
>Regardless, newtypes aren't shown to be more or less peaceful and understanding than oldtypes
which Char knows, yet lies about anyway, thus his motivation is demonstrably known to be a lie by himself
>you're the one making assumptions that Char couldn't possibly be so dumb as if Tomino wasn't the fucking hack unironically coming up with lines like "souls bound by gravity".
lmao so you're arguing in bad faith?
> but laying down his differences with Amuro as part of their rivalry.
which is the whole reason he is there
his other motivations are a lie, all the things he does and says are to get him one last duel with Amuro to get his revenge. When he gets owned he admits his true motivations because he knows he's going to die.
you got owned dude
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>>20562016
>A lot of the time it looks worse than ZZ
Ridiculous take, but man ZZ really does look bad. Must've had one hell of a budget cut & artist change coming off of Zeta which looked clean, on-model, and nice as fuck.
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>>20566565
>After the Gryps conflict, the failure of the post-Dakar AEUG, and the continued complacence of the Federation during Axis war, Char has become disillusioned with trying to change the Federation for the better
Isn't that his own damn fault? You don't make 1 speech and then disappear expecting all to now go well in the world. He was the leader of the AEUG ffs. Had he stuck around to fight against Axis, play beaurcrat, or both, maybe things might've started moving his way?
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>>20573000

> Kamille is a spacenoid, and so are Haman and Scirocco.

Kamille was born on Earth according to the original proposal, and re-asserted in later data books and shit. It's never brought up in the show, so it's not really something you could definitively assert but almost no-one's background is really given insight in the actual animation. We know Amuro was born on Earth and moved to the colonies, but that's about it. Lalah's origin is never detailed in the show, and she has contradicting origins in the places that do give it (the novel trilogy has her as being from Side 5 and orphaned in the opening days of the war, while a later novel Tomino wrote in the 90s places her as being born on Earth; which is where the prostitution stuff comes from). Scirocco is just given the "Man from Jupiter" epithet, which is "Returned from Jupiter" in the original Japanese to muddy things, but it's never clarified where he was born. Nor do we even know for definite that Haman was born at Side 3. She presumably was, before being raised in Axis. It's only assumption though.

Still, Amuro, Kamille and Lalah are all Earthnoids, while Haman is a Spacenoid and Char never actually knew Scirocco in any meaningful way. Which presumably means he has no idea what Scirocco's background is.
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>>20573013
>which was demonstrably wrong as he saw in his own life
Char never questions it, whether it’s wrong or not and he is delusional for parroting that doesn’t matter, we’re not given any indication that Char himself doubts that having more newtypes is a bad thing.
>good attempt at obfuscation, not gonna work
Good job at completely ignoring the argument, Kamille, Haman and Scirocco are still the strongest newtypes he knows and also spacenoids, that would be “most of the strong newtypes he knows”.
>never said they were, nice try at another strawman though
The Zabis are the worst people he knows, read your own shit or at least think for a fraction of a second before you post if you want to complain.
>which Char knows, yet lies about anyway, thus his motivation is demonstrably known to be a lie by himself
You’re the one claiming Char is lying because his plan is stupid, which is something he never considers.
>lmao so you're arguing in bad faith?
You’re the one making shit up and then complaining that not everyone is going to follow your headcanon, grow the fuck up.
>all the things he does and says are to get him one last duel with Amuro to get his revenge
Except for everything that happens after their last duel in MSG and Zeta. If Char was so hellbent of getting revenge against Amuro he would have kept going until death in MSG and never accepted his presence in Zeta. Char has a massive ego and an inferiority complex and can’t accept that Amuro wouldn’t see his way of things. The fact that Amuro still stands in his way despite of everything that happened is what makes him seethe, that's the point of their last conversation.
>owned
Back to kindergarten with you.
>>
>>20573045
>we’re not given any indication that Char himself doubts that having more newtypes is a bad thing.
ahaha now you're shifting the goalposts
the question was whether the Axis drop would work; it demonstrably would not, since most of the powerful newtypes were actually Earthnoids, as demonstrated in this very thread
>Good job at completely ignoring the argument
see above lmao
>The Zabis are the worst people he knows
objectively wrong
>You’re the one claiming Char is lying because his plan is stupid, which is something he never considers.
there's a screencap in this very thread of Char conversating with Nanai about how ludicrously evil his plan is and he says he doesn't care, basically "somebody has to do it." he absolutely knows how stupid it is
>You’re the one making shit up and then complaining that not everyone is going to follow your headcanon, grow the fuck up.
lol more irony
>If Char was so hellbent of getting revenge against Amuro he would have kept going until death in MSG and never accepted his presence in Zeta
that's quite the projection. Char disappeared for quite a long time after MSG and took on a new identity as Lieutenant Quattro; he disappeared for the entirety of ZZ after getting his ass kicked. Saying it's totally out of character for him to make a "tactical retreat" so to speak, to reconsider and/or expand his options, or whatever, is fucking retarded. Yet you say I make up headcanons? lmao
>The fact that Amuro still stands in his way despite of everything that happened is what makes him seethe, that's the point of their last conversation.
oh so you admit I'm right?
get owned
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>>20573057
>ahaha now you're shifting the goalposts
Are you legitimately retarded? Drop the Axis on Earth to force humanity into space = more newtypes according to what Char says. Most of the strong newtypes he knows are spacenoids, newtype theory is about humans developing a sixth sense to communicate while living in space. You have no arguments so you keep pulling this shit, as if you’re not the one arguing in bad faith.
>objectively wrong
Again with the lying, the Zabis are the people who he claims are responsible for his’s father death and the atrocities in the One Year War, he absolutely despises Haman for trying to groom Mineva into reviving their legacy, he cites them in his speeches in Zeta and CCA as the absolute worst along with the Titans.
>there's a screencap in this very thread of Char conversating with Nanai about how ludicrously evil his plan is and he says he doesn't care, basically "somebody has to do it." he absolutely knows how stupid it is
That’s the concept of “necessary evil”, not him acknowledging something as stupid. I know it’s hard for your kind, but try opening a book sometime.
>Saying it's totally out of character for him to make a "tactical retreat" so to speak, to reconsider and/or expand his options, or whatever, is fucking retarded.
Thanks for proving you didn’t watch anything and came here just to stir shit up. Amuro was easy prey after being injured in their sword duel in MSG and that would be the ideal moment for Char to finish him off, but he decided against it and even encouraged Sayla to go to his side while he went off to kill Kycilia. Char displays zero hatred towards Amuro in Zeta and is even supportive of him. If Char always wanted Amuro dead just like the Zabis he had plenty of opportunities to do it.
>oh so you admit I'm right?
No, you retard. Char is mad that Amuro took his mommywife away from him, is the better pilot and stronger newtype but won’t do what he says. That’s it.
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>>20573091
>Are you legitimately retarded? Drop the Axis on Earth to force humanity into space = more newtypes according to what Char says. Most of the strong newtypes he knows are spacenoids
wrong
>Again with the lying, the Zabis are the people who he claims are responsible for his’s father death and the atrocities in the One Year War, he absolutely despises Haman for trying to groom Mineva into reviving their legacy, he cites them in his speeches in Zeta and CCA as the absolute worst along with the Titans.
obfuscation since you're lowkey admitting my point is correct
>That’s the concept of “necessary evil”, not him acknowledging something as stupid. I know it’s hard for your kind, but try opening a book sometime.
more obfuscation
>If Char always wanted Amuro dead just like the Zabis he had plenty of opportunities to do it.
lmao so then his last motivation is a lie and you're changing your stance
nice job retard I win again
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>>20573117
>wrong
Not an argument.
>obfuscation since you're lowkey admitting my point is correct
You don't know what obfuscation is and you still haven't refuted the point. The only thing you keep doing is pretending that you're right in face of overwhelming contrary evidence.
>more obfuscation
That's just you being an illiterate retard, unable to grasp simple concepts.
>lmao so then his last motivation is a lie and you're changing your stance
I don't know what kind of conversations you have in your head to come up with this conclusion, but all of his motivations stay the same.
>I win again
Retard of the year award? Congratulations, we're still in January.
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>>20573135
stay mad, you haven't refuted anything I've said
>>
Quick question, if I want to watch Gundam, where the fuck do I start? More importantly, if I plan to watch UC in release (or timeline order) am I better off watching the compilation movies or the TV series? I know that a lot of the old compilation films back in the 70s-90s used to add new cuts or have reanimated portions that look significantly better. Is that the case here?
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>>20573550
SEX
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>>20572663
That's the nuance though - with that he can even lie to himself when need be to justify what he is doing ( neither of those are gaurentees though but they are believable). During that battle with Amuro he is finally being true to himself and Amuro, that the ideological stuff, as competently structured as it may or may not be, is just a cover for his personal vengeance.
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>>20573550
Basically, movies 1 and 2 cut out lots but don't have that much new animation, they are inferioir to the portions of the show they cover overall. 3 cuts out some things that were supposed to be developed, but couldn't due to cancellation. It has way more redone animation, and it's really great. but the cuts are still iffy. I would say to just watch the TV series and then watch the movies later. 0079-Zeta-ZZ-CCA are the core Gundam anime. The earlier UC OVAs are more so for the gunpla/millitary aesthetic fetishists and Unicorn is about cashing in on nostalgia for the Zeta-CCA era. V and F91 are UC just on technicalities, they are far removed.
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>>20573726
ZZ is entirely optional
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File: Gundam Zeta Launching.jpg (1.59 MB, 3536x2260)
1.59 MB
1.59 MB JPG
>>20573550
watch the ones Tomino directed in production order
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>>20573550
Watch the shows. Gundam movie 3 does have enough new stuff that you might want to watch it IN ADDITION TO the show, but it is not a reasonable replacement. No clipshow movie could ever be.
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>>20573807
No it isn't. And it's the best piece of UC Gundam post-Zeta btw
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>>20573807
ZZ is essential
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>>20573807
ZZ is essential because of how good it is.
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>>20573807
ZZ is essential





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